Building Explainable AI with Beth Rudden - CEO at Bast AI

This week on Trending in Ed, host Mike Palmer is joined by Trending in Ed all-star Beth Rudden, CEO of Bast AI. From her roots digging in the dirt as an archaeologist to managing a $34 billion division as the Chief Data Officer of IBM Managed Services, Beth brings a deeply grounded, technical perspective to the artificial intelligence conversation. In this wide-ranging and insightful conversation, Mike and Beth skip the typical AI hype to explore what it actually takes to build explainable, trustworthy technology. Beth shares how Bast AI acts as an LLM-agnostic explainability layer—using a unique drinking chocolate analogy to demonstrate how they verify AI data rather than letting models hallucinate plausible narratives. They explore the practical application of using small language models (SLMs) for data enrichment, highlighted by Bast AI's meaningful work with Craig Hospital to translate complex neuro-spine outpatient procedures into accessible languages and analogies. KEY INSIGHTS: • Inverting the Chatbot Approach: Why defining what an AI can talk about is far more effective than building restrictive guardrails. • The Myth of "Human in the Loop": How shifting accountability to overworked humans can become a form of liability laundering. • Microservices vs. Agentic Harnesses: Looking at the risks of natural language agentic systems like Claude Code versus discrete, self-healing tasks. • Cognitive Offloading & Math Education: Why future technical skills should prioritize differential equations and the diversity prediction theorem over simple calculation. • Pattern Recognition vs. Choice: Defining true intelligence through the ability to choose wisely, rather than just matching mathematical patterns. They also cross paths with the Cynefin framework, explain how the human brain conserves energy by only holding two paradoxes at once, and unpack the cultural shifts reshaping modern engineering ethics. Stay ahead of the curve in education and technology! Please like and share this episode with your network, and follow the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite player so you never miss an episode like this one. LINKS: Learn more about Bast AI: https://www.bast.ai Subscribe to Beth's Substack: https://substack.com/@bethrudden TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 - Introduction and welcoming Beth Rudden back to the show 01:00 - The drinking chocolate analogy for Explainable AI 03:00 - Beth’s lightning-round background: Archaeology to Chief Data Officer at IBM 05:00 - Getting "catfished by AI" and verifying facts with databases 07:00 - Mike on Gemini, RAG applications, and checking AI confabulation 09:00 - Enriched data and Small Language Models (SLMs) at Craig Hospital 12:00 - Epistemic security and inverting conversational technology 14:30 - Liability laundering and the illusion of "human in the loop" 15:30 - Agentic harnesses vs. self-healing microservices 20:00 - Understanding as labor and Conrad Wolfram's three-step math process 22:30 - Future human skills: Differential equations and jelly bean statistics 26:30 - Pattern recognition vs. true intelligence as the ability to choose 29:30 - Neurosymbolic systems and subjectivity in data science 34:30 - Shunting energy: The Cynefin framework and holding paradoxes 38:30 - Healthcare AI scribes and doctor burnout 44:30 - Trust architectures and building tech for the Maintenance Era 47:30 - Cultural devastation and the teleological suspension of ethics 49:00 - Final thoughts and wrapping up with Beth Rudden