Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group leader podcast. This weekly conversation is designed to equip and resource youth to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practice the spiritual rhythms, and changes the world together. Welcome everyone to. OK, perfect.
Yes. Right out the gate, Justin. No, no. That wasn't used to messing around.
OK, so go ahead and turn. Welcome to today's conversation with our online pastor from Mariners Church, Justin Herman. We're diving into some powerful topics around relationships, rhythms, and leadership. My guest today has lived out in the real world juggling family, ministry, and community while still finding ways to build life-giving relationships.
And today we're exploring practical ways to connect with people, stay engaged both online and offline, and even how to keep joy and laughter alive in our groups. That's a quite an introduction, Sam. Great job. Oh, dude.
I think you might have wrote it. I probably did right now. We're still trying to figure out who wrote it. I was pretty generous to myself with introduction, so I very amazingly written.
It's great that I'm excited to be here. I love life groups. I love how my life groups. I have a lot of online life groups.
And I know a lot of people in person like groups. So it's great. We're excited to have you on this podcast, Justin. We've been trying to plan for this for a while.
Finally, you're here. And we're going to go through several different topics. We don't even know exactly where we're going to go, but I'm excited. Yeah, that's going to be fun and engaging for the listener.
They don't know what's going to happen next. It could be a new UI. You're going to be on this. Yeah.
But Justin, in all seriousness, when I first came on, Sam, I think you remember this. I do. One of the worst days of my life. Mm.
No, I'm kidding. Oh, man. That's what we're going to do. I love Scott Kim.
But one of the things I really appreciate about you was you called me up, and you were so proactive and intentional about saying, let's go grab lunch. And you just welcome me into the Mariners family. You just gave me so much advice on what it looks like to be on staff and going out to great lunch over at Costa Mesa as well, too. Yeah.
I remember that. And I remember thinking, man, Justin was so intentional about building relationships. And I think when we think about life groups, there's a difference between intentionally building relationships and having just casual connections with people in our group. And so we'll love for you to just unpack and speak into that.
Is that something that just comes naturally to you? How do you foster that kind of intentionality into the relationships you have? I might say a couple things I've dropped about. If I'm a life group leader, I should probably know how much I'm loved at Mirrors Church.
And I know our life group leaders are prayed over, we spent time talking about how to make their life better as a leader. And I think this podcast is just another example of it. And so this is a very generous thing. So here's the reality.
You said such complimentary things about me, and I appreciate that. And if someone was listening to this who knew me 10 years ago, they would think you're talking about someone else, because I was not that guy. I was very transactional. I was very competitive.
It led to very toxic relationships, unhealthy relationships. And it was the finally getting to what I thought was going to be the finish line. I'm using air quotes, like the finish line of success in my career to find myself standing there alone. And also have not achieved the thing that I was thinking about achieving.
So I had a very unhealthy view of what relationships were. And I think it wasn't until I was ready to face the fact that I had an unhealthy view of what relationships were. Was I willing to identify that as a place that I've actually been holding to myself, and then could then open up and say, God, I need your help. I need to be changed.
There's something about me. There's something about how I approach the people that you have made in your image. There's something how I approach career or thinking about success. There's something about it and needs to change.
And I think I need to change it to be more like you. And while I was doing all these, I had the mental philosophy. I had thinking that God was proud of the things I was achieving, because on paper I was achieving some pretty great stuff. But behind the scenes, all this, the behind the scenes relationship, the stuff that really actually builds success in any venture, is the people you're around when you're doing it.
That was lacking. And so I was really building it on myself for myself. And it was until I realized it for what it was, the loneliness of it, was I willing to say, well, God, I need you to help change it. And guess what?
We have a generous God who is willing to help us change it. If we're willing to have the humility to admit it. So it became very intentional. And it became not transactional.
It became a source of strength, not a waste of time. It became a building block for the man I want my kids to see me being, which I think is like, I'm 40 now. My God, I would just have a luncheon. 40.
Do you believe that? I look so good for 40. I was kidding. I was having lunch with a dude today from Mirror Staff, a guy behind the scenes that no one really knows, named Geo, who works on our comms team.
We love Geo. And most people at the church don't know he's not a front facing character. But he's just turned 26. And I was 26 when I became the junior high pastor here at Mariners.
So there's a while ago. And I was just like, totally hit me. First, how old I am. Like, oh my god, I'm so old.
And secondly, oh my gosh, this guy has so much life ahead of him. And for whatever reason, I just immediately pontificated on the lessons I wish I knew at 26. And the relationships was one of those. I wish I would have looked at the staff I worked around differently.
And so take place in the life group context. The people you're leading in your life group, OK, maybe of a co-leader, the coach that you're listening in, maybe you're a life group leader, coach. You're listening and people you're coaching. Maybe it's the people in your group.
And one of the things I think sets me in a lot of ways is that we build life groups based on depth, not just based on quantity. Like if we were going on quantity route, we would just have a button on the app. And you could just kind of pick a life group, like you're picking Uber Eats. And you just kind of have it delivered to your house.
We go around of depth through rooted 10 weeks together, serving together. You're really going to know the people in this group. And then you're launching into a life group. So it's coming from a place of depth.
And that relational piece doesn't end when you're in the life group. If anything, you're forced and encouraged to go even deeper with that. The life group, you draw the lines of intentionality. Like, hey, I visualize a life group leader saying, hey, whose kids have games coming up?
Like, let's all show up at one. OK, so not to put serving aside. I just know that I'm going to be blasted for saying this. And I'm going to say it anyway.
How about for a quarter or a session or a semester? Put serving aside. And prioritize. We're going to go to a family event for each one of the people in the life group that it's cheering for their kids at a game.
It's doing a pool party in the neighborhood. It's going to someone's play. It's going and supporting a lemonade stand. It's whatever.
That's whatever. But it's intentional. So it's like you're building these intentional things. That's what my mind gravitates to.
And I get nothing out of going to some kid's soccer game and watch everyone chase the social media of young kids. Everyone chase the ball. Nothing from that. But actually, you get everything from that.
Because you're spending time together in a completely different setting. It's not tied to go through this series or this book. It's just relational. I don't need anything from you.
You don't need anything from me. I'm not going to expect to prepare anything. We're not all who's going to have a really good spiritual thing to say. I think really good life groups do that.
And I think every life group should do that. I think it's actually one of the secret sauces of what makes a life group stick after those three years, dish, and you know, if you stick after three years, like you're really in. I think it's one of those ingredients that will naturally occur in those groups. I don't know if you surveyed them.
Like it's probably one of the elements. When I look at building those intentional relationships, it didn't come easy to me. So I'm sure for a lot of groups or people in groups, it doesn't come easily to them. It's something you have to be willing to force yourself to do or create the structure for the invisible structure to do it.
But also it's something that in humility we say, you know, God, I'm just I'm kind of wired as this this driven career person or I'm kind of You know in this you know I'm kind of made in this specific way and and so it feels like I'm slowing down to sit and go to a kid's game of Someone who's not even my kid to just be around everyone and there's bugs and it seems like a waste of time There's a humility in saying Lord actually change that thing about me because like there's a wealth of relationship waiting for us if we're willing But we have to be willing and for those who it's new to or there's listening to this and there's like all this guy sounds Like a bleeding heart, you know tree hugger that is not me at all anyone who knows me knows that but but over time I've realized how much I was lacking and losing not being intentional about the wealth that's found in relationships And you start off by saying ten years ago you would have been described as transactional in your relationships But what you just described, you know going to a family's soccer game for their kid That takes sacrifice that you don't get anything out of that other than the building of trust and relationship and dependence and love in one another and that reminds me of being self-sacrificing and it reminds me of You know, all three of us are married like that that moves over and transitions into being married to I mean in relationship It takes self-sacrifice if you want to be in presence because you could be in front of someone and Be around them, but not fully be present, you know what I mean? But you know with you being the online pastor. I'd imagine it's It's more difficult with online groups. So how have you been able to do that?
And how long have you been the online pastor here? So I've been the online pastor for three years three the best years in my life I love it. I live in Arizona with my family and Maris churches been our church for very many years since I was 20 I was going here when I was 26 and really been our family's church since then There's a year where I was working another church, but that doesn't fully count and then and there's a few years I was working in construction and I lived in Riverside and we still drove down every weekend from Riverside to church Which is by the way, it's a very long drive the 91 it's no joke And then even we moved to Arizona, you know We're this is when Paul Han was the online pastor and we're still we're watching online and we're you know It's the whole thing It was great. I was in the chat and it was actually a lot of fun And then I came back on staff as the online pastor and it's been great And I've been able to see tons of online groups take birth out of rooted online Which is been exceptional and it is way harder because the it's way harder because you don't see each other obviously in person Not every group does you know not you're not doing it online But maybe you will all see each other church on Sunday like we people who are leading online groups in Texas and Ohio and there's people You know in upstate California and Washington State and New York like they're all over the country.
It's great. It's actually it's completely wonderful I love it. It's beautiful But they're not doing all of the examples that I just gave like they're not able to go to a kids game like their Intentionality is through the time they're in group together. It's through the group text they have where they're sharing life moments together It's through you know the online serve like maybe they do like ESL cafe or like you know some kind of an online serve Or they're just doing stuff in their community and they're sharing about it like with the people in their group It looks different and different doesn't always mean less but it is different and they have to go about it in in a way that In a way that for the person who goes to church every Sunday or maybe is an in-person life group would be like Well, it doesn't sound as significant well for the person who's online and this is their church or they're there for the season that they're in like This is the the landing pad that they're on spiritually It is significant to them and it's deep to them because for some of them It might be the first life group they've ever been in for some of them They just started going back to church Maybe they saw a clip on YouTube or they just they came crossing online and and then they just jumped into rooted Which led into a life group But they have this backstory with the church when they were in their teens early 20s and I sure a lot of people listening like they know Backstories or people with backstories hurt by the church somehow or a church they were out there You know not the church hurt them But the people of that church made bad decisions and it impacted them and so this is their first step back into anything spiritual for them It's extremely intentional and extremely personal.
I love that Experience that online all the time. Yeah There's a there's a passage that a pulse of Paul says in Romans 12 things be devoted to one another in love honor one another above yourselves Justin once again coming back to you where you've texted me in just random moments and said hey, how you doing? What do you up to yeah? What I what I notice is that it's not sometimes the things that you know We have an agenda or something about work is you're just checking up on how I'm doing and when it comes to life groups Yes, our meetings are super important and we study God's word and we pray together But I guess what I'm hearing from you is beyond the meetings beyond that program Are we building that intentionality in cultivating relationships?
And so I guess to ask you like what are some like practices or habits that you've instituted or you've mapped out to build that kind of Authenticity in your relationship just checking up on people and because it takes it takes time right? It takes actually you're a busy guy. Yeah, you have a family Kids do I have four kids four tits full-time job full-time job married capabilities a lot of such with I've hobbies I've interests I've interests I've done on runner all that like what compels you to like just check up on people text people and what would you How would you encourage group leaders? Yeah to make that a part of that rhythm?
Well, it's not a part of the rhythm by accident part of a rhythm on purpose. It's a disciplined part of the rhythm You know, you know how we all have like those moments where we pick up our phones start scrolling and we have some dead time You know dead couple of minutes. Here's the thing I can always scroll when I'm about at night I can always scroll like, you know when I'm in the bathroom But in those moments, I'm going to and I've set this as a discipline instead of just in between meetings or maybe I'm gonna log on something I'm gonna text someone and see how they're doing It's a forced impulse self-imposed discipline on myself that I'm going to replace the thing I was doing with this new thing So I'm gonna replace You know, just pick up a phone scrolling and I'm going to intentionally replace that with I'm gonna text someone see how they're doing So it's like there's no magic to it. It's just discipline It's saying what are the things that I want to prioritize in my life?
What are the things that I want to do that's either going to elevate my relationships or you know in a group context? What's going to elevate the culture of the group? What's going to elevate, you know, my relationship with the people in the group? You know, this is like here's a really easy place to start this If maybe a lot of groups don't have new people but for the groups that have new people And this should be a thing that's like standard operating like if you're a group leader Like you should randomly text the new people in your group to see how they're doing or you know as a group is launching out of Rooted for the first six weeks like you should randomly be texting people and see how they're doing just Totally unprovoked and that should just be part of the normal rhythm, but it's it's a forced rhythm It's a rhythm you're imposing on yourself and you're saying no to something So and you know, maybe not everyone scrolls and you just people listening like oh, I don't scroll but I love chatting the market I love seeing where the markets at you know, the business guys out there Well, instead of checking the market pause text someone randomly and then go back to check the market or you know I just want to you know, see what's going on the news I'm just gonna check the news real quick like whatever that thing is that you just kind of just do quickly like it's just a quick little just Intentionally remind yourself.
Maybe it's a note post it on your your table It's a post a note on your desk or computer and it's a for a force discipline discipline is Such a part of my life. It's such a part of the operating procedure of me as a leader and as a pastor and as a dad So with four kids like if you're just kind of just going after like oh like it's good. It's all gonna be great So we're all gonna just have a blast it's gonna work out That's not gonna get you to the destination. You probably want for your group for yourself spiritually for yourself, you know Relationally emotionally physically like there's no goal that we set or not even goal because I think with building relationships It's not a goal you achieve.
I think it's the vision you have for your life like I want to have a life rich in relationship Okay, great. Why are you doing that? Well every chance I get I'm playing Fortnite on my phone I got to download the app and I'm just playing Fortnite and I'm a big gorilla and I'm like what are you talking about? So how's that helping you get to that goal?
Oh, well, you know, it's not but it's just how I burn time Well, it's a burning time and best time and it's a really easy thing to do It's pivoting your priorities and it's coming with a game plan and it's being disciplined to it and it feels awkward at first But once you're in it and you're doing it well, then that becomes your normal And then you're not only be grateful for it. So I don't even think in terms of man I really hope I get a podcast one day and get affirmed for all the random text I send to Scott Kim but you don't think in terms of that you think in terms of man I want to spend some time on this build some relationship Hey, how are people doing it? It's just and maybe it's easier for me because I live in Arizona and so you know, there's a distance like I truly don't I'm not walking Around the office seeing people but that connects with everyone who's in a life group. Yeah, living with the people in your life group You're all distant So that's the thing like in our life groups whether we live in in the similar region or different state most of the week We're not it face to face a lot of times in our with our group numbers We're chatting on texts and so that's something that I think we need to really learn how to kind of use that muscle of like Stay engaged around the week and so I mean that's something you can speak into as well to as an online pastor You a lot of times in the digital world and kind of the impersonal world as well, too And so how do you I mean I guess like what what practices have helped you?
engage online but use that as a strengthening tool when you had that impersonal connection as well. Yeah, I mean digital things are meant to support and be meant to support and enhance what's what's already there or what you're already hoping to grow so you know Text messaging is not going to be you know the secret sauce to your relationship It's going to enhance the goal that you already have or the vision you already have your relationships It's going to grow deeper and you know more personal and you use text or you're using group text or you're using some kind of a gaming app We have a lot of life groups that have gaming apps that they'll all game together Which it's great and it works for them But it's meant to enhance and grow and support the root of what's already there and as long as the root of what's there is Relationship building like we want to grow closer together. We want to know each other more You know We want to be involved in each other's lives in the coming day-to-day You know in a healthy way not like in a unhealthy like you know psychotic way but like in a nice healthy like ongoing What they're what they're up to what you're up to and just sharing the life together It can be a great support now if you only have technology And you know I look at our groups that mean on zoom like I view that as face-to-face like might not be face-to-face You know physically in person but they're looking at each other's eyes not like a you know It's not like everyone's been on zoom call words like have people other cameras off and they're muted It's like okay, who am I talking to where these people that's not how we run root or life groups online So you know everyone's cameras on we're all seeing each other like it we're all in it together Technology then it just supports like those face-to-face interactions and it becomes like those that sprinkling a mortar that strengthens the bond of us Throughout you know the week until we meet again or you know every other week depending on when they meet Technology can be a great support for that And I think every life group should have some form of like a technological aspect of how they connect throughout the week You're a group Texas easiest thing to do and then you can kind of get more and more kind of advanced from there But you know yeah it exists and it's important and it's a support but it's not um you know It's not going to make relationship happen out of thin air if there's not a heart for it to exist already you know we're talking about the power of just a simple text and one of the values at Mariners is think big act small yeah and Even the act of remembering people's birthdays just having a list of everyone's birthdays It's so simple But then catching everyone off guard and being that first person in the group chat to say happy birthday to this person That shows them that you care just great. I'm reaching out to everyone through or individually throughout the week on their prayer requests I'll be honest.
That's something that our group did not do early on but how often are our leaders reaching out throughout the week catching up Checking in on hey, where you have with that job interview? How did it go? Um, you know, how is your grandfather feeling? I know he's got a biopsy going on like in a couple days How's he feeling something as simple as that shows them that wow they're spending the time kind of like how you said You know I could be playing fortnight, but I'm gonna take a pause and I'm gonna text someone that's really important in my life That goes a long way.
Yeah birthday's anniversaries kids birthdays family members like the that's a life group I mean that's knowing what's happening in life for the people around you You know if you're in a life group and everyone's in college, you know, no one would graduations dates are coming You know making it a priority to be there to celebrate them or um, you know set up a zoom So like everyone can be there even if they're another in person, you know, which again is like a total online thing We do all the time we do have her baptism looks a huge aspect of online is you know things like that Yeah, I think the thing is that if you're not strong in that area You can tap someone who is much more administrative to map all those things out because honestly like those details when you're talking about that It overwhelms me, but my wife is so administrative though We've gifted so we have a sheet where we look at our entire schedule with all the dates coming up And then all the birthdays and so that's how we celebrate we don't we have that on our calendar and we're able to Remember those big mouths and that's an opportunity for you leaders to share ownership So that way you don't get burned out you can include other people to lead to exercise their spiritual gifts So I love that. Yeah, I agree totally agree. I love that Justin. This has been an amazing episode Really great wisdom that you poured out today.
So would you do us a favor and just pray over our life group leaders Whether they're meeting in person or online that God would continue to equip them To create these intentional relationships with their life remembers. Absolutely. Heavenly Father. Thank you.
Thank you so much You love your kids very much. You made them in your image and you care about the things that they care about And you care about who not only they are right now, but who they're becoming and that is at any age So bless our groups bless the bonds that unite them bless the conversations they're having You know whether it be online or in person It doesn't matter our life groups life group and man you love life You love him so much that the first thing that Jesus did was put together his life group before he started his earthly ministry So Lord, let us look at that example. Let us live in that image We thank you you are so good to us And we are grateful and we are thankful and we are expectant for the good things that you were going to be doing In our groups we pray all this in your name. Amen.
Amen This has been a great episode. It has. Yeah, we should do we should do another one. Yeah, you know what it's so good We should do another one