Welcome to the Weekly Standard Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Graham, with us from the Weekly Standard is John McCormick, who's been writing about the developments in the public and primary in particular, Jeb Bush. And I think it's safe to say, John, that Jeb had a bad week last week. And I don't know that co-opting the slogan from the kids show Bob the Builder is really going to take him over the top.
Am I missing something? I don't know. I don't think things look very good right now for Jeb Bush. Obviously, his attack on Marco Rubio's voting record in the Senate or as Ms.
votes didn't work out very well when Rubio pointed out that Bush had supported John McCain and had missed many votes and that never stopped him from supporting McCain. But I think, you know, things took an even worse turn for Bush last week when his campaign leaked this memo that said that, you know, there are things that Marco Rubio has passed that are concerning sort of, you know, very vague, cryptic message in there. And the Romney campaign came back and said, well, sorry, just a back-up second. The Bush folks said that they were affirming things that the Romney campaign had uncovered during the 2012 vetting process for vice presidential potential nominees, running mates from Romney.
And the Romney folks came back and said, there's nothing to this whatsoever. And so, you know, the Bush campaign, it's one thing to go against somebody and to, you know, run a tough hard campaign. It's a completely whole different thing to, you know, begin suggesting that there are some things that are troubling concerning someone's past and then being unwilling to even say what those things are. So, you know, I think that's cowardly.
I think that's the definition of cowardly. It's pretty sleazy, too. You know, a lot of people who are speculating publicly now about what their miter might not be in Marco Rubio's background. You know, not a really nice way for, you know, Jeb Bushy's widely regarded as a good man, but this doesn't look too good for him right now.
Let's stick with the Bob the Builder story there, Jeb. We can fix it or he can fix it. Because this is the kind of the fixes in politics that Republicans got used to in the 90s and the aughts when the establishment was picking nominees. You would pick your guy and whether the grassroots like him or not didn't matter because you were going to unleash on the opponents and drive everyone off the field.
And South Carolina back in the day was the state where you could take your guy and count on the Republican political machines, just crush them there. Those days are over. Is Jeb Bush really going to try to win the nomination by essentially leaving a scorched earth field of GOP nominees behind him? Well, that certainly seems to be, you know, the theory behind his attacks on Rubio that if he can just win the establishment primary, you know, he'll eventually grind it out, turn it into a Trump versus Bush race, or Trump versus Carson or Bush versus Carson or Bush versus Cruz, the only problem is, you know, even if he even if he succeeds and if he, you know, somehow manages to crush Rubio, he still got to crush, you know, Chris Christie.
I think at this point, if Rubio flames out, you're going to see a lot more people giving Chris Christie a second look than Jeb Bush. So he's got to beat all this, you know, win the establishment lane. The bigger problem for Jeb is that doesn't even seem that he's the candidate who can win the Trump versus Bush race. So there's a poll that just came out a few weeks ago that showed in the national race, Trump would beat Bush, had to head by 18 points.
Can't it like Rubio actually beats Trump, had to head. So I just think that, you know, the problem with Jeb ultimately is Jeb. As people said, you know, he was a good man. He was a conservative governor.
But, you know, I don't think that the party's in the mood for a third Bush to put up against the second Clinton. It's just the party's moved for sort of a change, a change election, and Jeb Bush doesn't represent that change. Exactly. And that's, you know, echoes in this strategy.
I'm going to do good old fashioned opposition research campaigning, which we've had. We've had that for, you know, 20 years. To me, it's almost as if Jeb refused. It's like he jumped in the DeLorean going the wrong way, John.
And he's going to stay back there, darn it. And he's going to keep campaigning like Obama never happened, like the Tea Party never happened, like the media revolution never happened. And I just, I watch it and go, does he really think this can work? Are people around him saying it can work?
Or is it just a, well, if I'm not going to win, I'm going to take as many people down with me as I can? Well, you'd have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they actually think they can win at this isn't just a peak of fit of rage that Marco Rubio should have waited his turn and, you know, like Jeb Bush and waited 10 years too late tomorrow for president. You know, I think that, you know, the president for this would be Romney where, you know, Romney in 2012, he dispatched his challengers who all each, you know, rose up and he batted them down, you know, Rick Perry on immigration. He pretty much defeated him on that issue when Newt Gingrich surged went hard after him on Newt's consulting or whatever he did for Freddie Mac and Sally Mac.
The difference is those were ideological issues, which Romney could get to the right of those candidates. And that's a problem for Jeb taking this sort of process issue, which, you know, it might make sense. Listen, if the Florida primary were very early, that might make sense, but Florida's not up until March 15th, if I'm not wrong. So, you know, this race, I don't think that Jeb's going to, you know, necessarily be around until March 15th, if he doesn't win in early state or do very, very well in New Hampshire.
So I just don't really see what exactly the theory behind this process attack was. John, what's been the response on the Rubio campaign thus far, both the micro, like their media, you know, what they're saying, and then the broader strategy if one is starting to shape up by how they intend to react to this? Well, you know, Rubio's been pretty disciplined and refusing to hit back at Jeb, and you saw that in the debate. I mean, the remarkable thing was that, aside from the line about, you know, supporting John McCain, which was devastating, basically everything that Rubio said in response to Jeb, which was also very effective saying that someone convinced you to do this, I'm not going to trash you, I'm not running against you, or anyone else in the stage, I'm running against Hillary Clinton, he's been, that's his stumps each line, that's his interview.
And he said that basically verbatim to me a few weeks earlier when I asked him about, you know, accusation that he's the GOP, Obama, the suggestion from Jeb Bush. So the fact that, you know, Team Jeb knew exactly what Rubio was going to say, aside from the McCain comments, and still I had with that attack anyway, I mean, I think that was pretty silly. A lot of people were already saying, I had a time that, you know, Jeb Bush was about to make a big mistake, and sure enough, he did. Where do you think the Republican Party is watching this?
Because I get a real sense that the grassroots folks are kind of beyond this level of politics. It's as though the Bush campaign hasn't seen what Trump has been able to do, where Trump had essentially a small glacier worth of negative stuff said about it, just dropped right on him, and Trump stuck with the message people wanted to hear and kept finding ways to pick the fights they wanted to fight, and had no impact on them. I mean, is this just yet again, just a miscalculation, or do they think that Rubio can't do what Trump is doing? And do you agree with me that this just isn't the kind of campaign Republicans run a mood for in 2016?
Well, I don't think so. I don't think it's the campaign that Jeb Bush isn't a mood for. He famously said that he wanted to run joyfully. I think that, you know, they originally thought they were going to turn this into a Trump versus Bush race, like going after Trump.
Trump's been terrible for Jeb Bush. You know, Trump Bush has been unable to really beat back Trump on any issue. Aside from, you know, the 9-11 issue, that I think that Bush came out, got the better of that issue. But other than that, you know, it's made him look sort of out of touch.
You know, he's sort of just kind of flailing here and there. Well, I fear is, and you tell me if I'm just missing this, but watching the Bush is now for 25 years, whatever, they have a, there's a competitive spirit, very much a kind of a country club, you know, tennis court, George was famous when you get in a tough tennis match, he used to shout as he hit the ball, unleashed Chang, referencing a CIA, you know, theoretical strategy that they're going to least Changai's check onto the mainland against China back in the 50s. In other words, they're very, they're nice enough affable New England, you know, I'm saying kind of that the waspy guys, but when the fight starts, they will fight dirty. I saw it in the 2000 race.
I was in South Carolina and saw what they did to John McCain. It was pretty scary. And that's a concern. Should we be concerned that that aspect of Bushism may return and hurt the party in some fundamental way, hurt Rubio in some way that, you know, really undermines a quality candidate?
Well, I think that, you know, the primary process is important in getting these issues out there. I mean, if there is something in Rubio's past that could be damaging or even devastating, you know, Republicans, even Rubio fans, people across the spectrum ideologically should want the Bush campaign to come out with it. And let's know about this now until, you know, Marco Rubio is the nominee. And there's something that you can do to take it back.
You know, I think people, voters want to go in, you know, knowing if there's some skeleton that's caused it. The thing that's the real problem here is that you're showing them on this very cowardly way and suggesting that there's something out there that won't even say what it is. So, you know, the issue here isn't, you know, character attacks or it's a fact that they're just like tossing us out there and suggesting, you know, hinting, you know, maybe potentially there's some dark things in Rubio's past. You know, so that the problem is, you know, I think they should just, if there are, if there is something real out there, they should just come out and drop it right now because, you know, if they think they're sitting on the big, you know, the big, the nuclear bomb they're going to drop out of Rubio in January, they might not be around in January.
So, you know, Jevis, you've got something, if you think you're the only establishment candidate who can win and you need to get Rubio out of the way, do it now. You know, drop it right now. Don't keep up this, you know, tiki tax Senate, Senate votes issue. And then, you know, just hinting like, you know, very childishly and cowardly suggesting there are things that you aren't willing to say what they are.
Over the weekend, I guess Bush was asked about this memory. So he didn't see it. He was necessarily about this line about the stuff from Rubio's past. But I think the odd thing to do would be to either, you know, apologize and say, hey, we were wrong, the Romney campaign, now two of them, two officials, and that's absolutely nothing to it.
Or come out with it. Come out with what they've got and have the argument. Who would have thought three months ago that the skunk at the Garden Party for the GOP would be a Bush and not a Trump, John McCormick, great reporting in the weekly standard. Thanks so much for joining us.
Thank you. You've been listening to the weekly standard podcast, please be sure to check weekly standard.com regularly for podcast updates. I'm your host, Michael Graham.