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These guys survived the David Conn era of Timberwolves basketball and live to tell about it. It's Fladrant Howells. He's the sports dad, Judd Zolgad. He's been watching Timberwolves basketball since I was like four years old in 1989.
I'm Phil Mackey. This is a Timberwolves lifestyle podcast. In today's episode, some pontifications about the Timberwolves while watching the first two games of the NBA finals is presented in part by our friends at EcoFun. Judd, EcoFun Motorsports, your summertime fun headquarters.
As you see on the YouTube channel here, we've got all sorts of ATVs, motorcycles, scooters, side-by-side, electric bikes, even golf carts for the sports dad to go around. Also on the watercraft side of the Forest Lake location, all sorts of 2024 Kawasaki and Yamaha watercraft. In fact, there's the sports dad right there. Summer off on the back of that.
Best dream summer. Yep, yep, yep. Exactly right here. All gone from my back.
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Okay. Two EcoFun locations, Forest Lake, where you can also find the watercraft and Burnsville. Or go to EcoFunMotorsports.com. Tell them the Score North guys sent you in EcoFunMotorsports.com.
So, okay, I'm going to throw just like four quick Wolves pontifications at you as I've consumed the first two games of these NBA Finals. Okay. All right. You can be my Wolves therapist here.
Because my first pontification is, should the Wolves have beat the Mavericks? I mean, the Celtics, the Celtics are doing, now the Celtics have some guys offensively that the Wolves don't have. And that's part of what makes it hard on the Mavericks. But absolutely.
The Celtics' length and athleticism is making it hard for Kyrie. They're doing to Kyrie what we thought the Wolves would do to Kyrie, which is length, athleticism, maybe the arena vibe is throwing Kyrie off because they're just targeting him, the Boston fans, for three hours every night. But you've got Celtics' length and athleticism on defense making Kyrie's life miserable. Celtics' offense is putting Luka to work on defense.
Instead of Luka just like taking possessions off like he did for the entire series against the Wolves. They're just pointing at guys. Yeah. You cover him.
Go cover him. I'm not going to. He's like, she's just kind of hanging out by the baseline and trying not to get a three-second violation. And then Porzingis comes back after the injury and he's like their version of Karl-Anthony Towns.
And he comes out and just goes gangbusters in the first game of the series against the Mavericks. So, I don't know. I mean, the Celtics have so much more playoff experience and ability to do whatever they want. The Wolves are still figuring it out.
But I'm watching these first two games saying, what a missed opportunity to not take that Mavericks' series six or seven games. So, here's my question. And I'd be curious to get your analysis. How much of this is, yes, the Celtics have different components.
The Celtics definitely have things that the Wolves lack. But how much of this also is coaching as well? Like, the Celtics appear to have a better plan at times. Which is funny because, like, Joe Mazzula has been crucial.
I know. And he's a weird dude. By the way, the more press conferences I see, that recital of a play like in the second or a series sequence in the second quarter last night where he didn't take a breath and ran through the entire thing from memory was absolutely incredible. So, yes, he's known as a weird dude.
But what do you see from a coaching standpoint as far as what the Celtics are doing? Especially with Luka. Because you're right. They're making him work.
And he doesn't. Well, he's hurt. But he was hurt for this series, too. I mean, that's to me.
That's one of the main things. I know that he went for a three-point triple-double last night. And he was doing big-time Luka things in the first quarter. But Tyreek didn't contribute.
And so that's the difference. Yeah. You know, some of it is, like, they're putting on the Luka front. And again, on paper, he had an amazing game.
And he did Luka things. But they're making him work a lot on defense. I think, and I'd have to go see, like, statistically, if this is true, it feels like Boston is blitzing him a little bit more here and there. I just think there's, in retrospect, there's different things the Wolves could have done to throw a wrench into it.
Now, some of it, too, is Kyrie was hitting, and Luka, just, like, the most ridiculous contested shots in most of those games against the Wolves. Kyrie has not made a contested three yet in this NBA Finals. I think I would still take Chris Finch over Joe Mazzula. But I also think Chris Finch would love to have a mulligan on some of those games against Boston or against Dallas in the Western Conference Finals.
Which brings me to my second pontification, watching these NBA Finals. How can the Wolves acquire another player who can just get a bucket off the dribble in isolation? And can you get that player without sacrificing defense? Because there's some players out there you can go find that can get a bucket.
Like Jordan Clarkson can get a bucket, but he's not a good overall player. And he would, you know, like, there's guys, and that's the beauty of the Celtics. You look at Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum, those are obviously the two best players. Drew Holiday, Derek White, Christoph Porzingis.
He's a hell of a player. And that's for a long time. Yep. And they can get their own bucket to varying degrees.
But they also lock in on defense. I mean, Holiday and Derek White are piranhas out there. And so, you know, I think the Wolves right now maybe have, like, one and a half guys that you can trust. Hey, off the dribble or isolation right now, we need you to just go get a bucket.
Go get to the rim. Go make something happen. Anthony Edwards. Sometimes Kat, depending on the night, depending on the opponent.
Sometimes Nas and Jaden, depending on situations. Too inconsistent, though. Like, that is a crash. Like, some nights, they will go off, and they're fantastic.
And some nights, it's like, and you can tell early, they just don't have it. You're right. Yeah, and Nas is more, like, Nas is an excellent spot-up shooter. He stretches the floor, and when he gets downhill, a lot like Kat, they're just, they're different players, but they're similar in some ways.
And if you're asking those guys to spot-up shoot or get downhill without having to worry about, you know, charging into somebody, but they're not going to be, it's not going to be like Jalen Brown, where, well, this game's getting murky, and the opposing team is going on a run, and it is my job right now to get to the rim, get to the free-throw line, get a bucket, get something in the mid-range, a fadeaway of some kind. Anthony Edwards is the only true bucket-getter, microwave-offense player right now, consistently that the Timberwolves have. The Mavericks, it's funny, because, like, the Mavericks have two of the great ones. And P.J.
Washington sometimes can get his own offense. Kyrie was. But you watch the Celtics have, like, four or five guys that at any given point, Drew Holliday could just be your best offensive player for a stretch, or Derek White could go off, or the shot clock's winding down, who can get to a spot on the floor. It's amazing to watch.
So I agree with this point completely, and I think the Wolves do need to have a guy that basically can at least decrease the pressure on hand consistently and get buckets. But that being said, I think your first point is the frustrating point, which is, was there more you could have done? Now that you watch this, and Boston's a really good team, no one said that they're not, but now that you watch the Mavs, because if the Wolves could have allowed Luka to go off, but contain Kyrie Phil, that's a different series. Yeah, and some of it, like for Boston, Boston has so many shooters, and the Wolves, the Wolves don't.
I mean, the Wolves are a good percentage three-point shooting team, but they're not a high-volume good percentage three-point shooting team. And you look at the Wolves rotation, well, Rudy's going to be out there for 30, 35 minutes. Kyle Anderson's going to be out there for a chunk of time. Jay McDaniels, who was great as a three-point shooter in the playoffs, was like a 32% three-point shooter in the regular season, and they were kind of leaving him open for stretches.
Nikhil is super inconsistent as a three-point shooter. He went like nine days between threes during that series. The Celtics, I mean, the Celtics spacing is so lethal, because if you're one of those Dallas bigs, for instance, who are you leaving open? Like, you can kind of cheat against the Wolves.
If you're a gaffer or even like a P.J. Washington, you can kind of cheat and clog the lane more and get to contest shots. It's just an extra step or two is all it takes. So, like, the Wolves just need, there's a reason why they were like 17th in net offensive rating.
They need another consistent bucket getter, and then they need better three-point shooting. Can they get those things without sacrificing defense, is the question. Which brings me to my third pontification for you. Is there another level to Jayden McDaniels' game that could help solve a lot of these problems?
If you look at him in the playoffs, like I was kind of going through his game log. I'm like, I get a couple 20-point games, I get a couple outbursts, maybe three. He had that stretch. Game six against Denver, game seven at Denver, and then game one against Dallas.
That's the best three-game stretch of his entire career. He's playing standard Jayden McDaniels' defense. So, over those three games, probably the three biggest games of his career and of the season. And he averages 23 points, five rebounds, a couple assists, stealing a half, a block.
In those games, he shot 67% from three. In the playoffs, he shot like 45% from three. He was 67% from the field, again, that's not sustainable. But he's giving you 36, 37 minutes a night of lockdown defense.
You can put him on a bunch of different guys. And you know that he's a three-level scorer. He can get to the rim. When he's aggressive, he's got a mid-range game.
He can hit the little fadeaways in the lane. And especially in the corner, he's been a good three-point shooter for long stretches, too. He would solve a lot of problems if, instead of being an inconsistent, maybe 10, 12 points per game guy, if he all of a sudden became, in his fifth season, 17, 18 points, consistent three-point shooting, more free throws. I just wonder if there's another level there that can be unlocked overnight this offseason.
I guess my question about that is very simple. What is going to unlock, just from a starting point, assertive? Because when McDaniels is assertive, and you can tell it in the first quarter, right? He might not always hit the shots, but there's a confidence that can grow from the fact that he feels a part of the game and the game flow.
But then there's other times that he basically just sort of bows out. He still plays defense, but he doesn't want to participate or doesn't feel like he's being invited to participate in the offense. And so what is it about that assertiveness that could be unlocked? Because I don't think the answer to your question is going to become clear until we consistently see that guy at least shooting at shots.
And I don't feel like we see that. I feel like there's some nights where he's in the corner, and he might get the ball, he might pass the ball, but he doesn't really take part. But then the three-game sequence that you just brought up shows this player who 1,000% deserves the salary he's about to get. So my question is, what, from a coaching standpoint, from his standpoint, what unlocks that guy?
Yeah, it's a good question, man. I almost would throw it back with another question and say, what would he look like on a more rebuilding team at this age? Because we saw him on a rebuilding team when he was a rookie, as a 20-year-old, and they were trying to make the playoffs for the first time. But if you were to take him, not put him on a bad team, but if you put him on a team where you're not going to win 50 games, but you're going to be the second scoring option, you're going to play 35 minutes a night, and there's not going to be a Carl Anthony Towns sort of in your way in terms of shot volume, and you can kind of do whatever you want.
We want you to go out there and be as aggressive as you can be. Does he have it in him to be a 20-point player? I call him Diet Kawhi Leonard throughout the last couple years on this show, because they both have that really quiet, stoic personality. You'd never see him smile.
They come into the NBA as sort of like mid-late first-round picks. Kawhi was what, like the 20, 15th overall pick in 2011. And then it took Kawhi like three or four years. He didn't start averaging 20 points a game until his fifth season, which was age 24.
Jade McDaniels is going into his fifth season next year, 24 years old. Is there a jump to be made like Kawhi Leonard did? And then all of a sudden Kawhi went from being like 12 points a game, getting some defensive run, you know, like a second team all defense in his third year, to them being like, I also score 20, 25 points a game, and take on the defensive responsibility. Is that jump made with Kat on the team, on the floor?
I think it can. I think the best case scenario would be, and I don't know how you would do this under the salary cap restrictions that they're about to, that's a whole other episode in terms of the second apron and everything. But I think if you could solve internally, Kat is still on the team, because he's, again, he brought so much to that Denver series, and they don't win the Denver series all the time. But somebody else jumps in and becomes a secondary scorer, and now Kat becomes, like, some nights Kat's your primary scorer based on the matchup.
But if he's not really feeling it, or if he's in foul trouble, at least you have somebody else that you can turn to. And I, I don't know, man, call me, like, naive. I think Jade McDaniels has it in him. And maybe he just needed four or five years to mature in the league and figure it out, and I think it could be unlocked.
Like, Kawhi Leonard, when he broke out and started scoring 20 points a game, it was a 67-win Spurs team in 2015-16 that included LaMarcus Aldridge, Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, and Manu Ginobili. And Kyle Anderson, by the way, a young Kyle Anderson. And Kawhi was the leading scorer of all of those dudes. Now, we're talking about, like, a 38-, 39-year-old Tim Duncan who was very much a role player at that point.
But, I don't know, just maybe he, something in him needs to rise up and stop sort of lurking in the corner and, like, and waiting for permission. Right. He could take a game over, and he did in some of the biggest games of the year against Ender and Game 1 against Dallas. Yeah, well, and I think that in addition to him maturing or taking on more of a role, too, you also need to, it needs to be an organizational philosophy, right, to involve him more and to make sure that he knows that you want him to be that guy.
Because at times, again, it feels like he gets sort of just lost in the mix. And when he's going well, he clearly is too good to be a guy that just gets lost. Like, there is definitely a lot more there. Yep.
And that brings me to the fourth and final Wolves pontification question. If the Wolves never make it further than the Western Conference Finals in the Rudy Gobert era, would you still consider the trade to have been worth it? So, I bring this up because he's essentially entering a contract season, Gobert is, because it's the third year of his contract he's entering. The fourth year is a player option, so he could opt out after the season to become a player.
If they never make it further than the Western Conference Finals, would you consider that trade still to be a success? Can I see the rest of the draft picks first? No. Because the players, they gave up 1,000%.
Like, they didn't give up that much. The draft picks I'd be curious about. But, you know what, I think if they never make it past the Western Conference Finals, but this has definitely been a building block, it's been key. And the thing with Gobert is we can debate him and his presence and blah, blah, blah.
And, you know, yes, he has shortcomings, but the reality is this. They don't play defense like they have, like they did without him. Like, he was a huge part of that. If the Timberwolves were a team that had been on the precipice of titles for a bunch of years and then they made the Gobert trade and it didn't get them passed off, I would say no.
But in this case, I'm going to say yes, because look at where this franchise has been. Like, that has to be taken into account. You have to look at where, and it's basically been through hell and back, with very little to show for it. And, you know, their defensive identity, for better or for worse, which was Senator Uncle Bear, was a huge part in the building block.
So I actually am going to say yes. Also, keep in mind, because I'm sure there have been parallels drawn between this trade and the Herschel Walker trade because of draft picks. Draft picks in the NBA are not draft picks. Like, in the National Football League, this trade is a huge deal because you're giving up a bunch of first-round draft picks.
I feel like draft picks, first-round picks, a lot of times in this league have become crapshoots. So it's not like it's going to be a long itinerary of all-stars. So yes, I would say it was worth it. On the draft pick front, the other thing, too, to consider is the Wolves have, like, an abundance of young talents, even without those draft picks.
The guys on the current team, Nikhil Alexander-Walker, is, what, 24, 25 years old? they also have Leonard Miller second pick from last year who's under contract for a few years Jalen Clark who tore his Achilles at the end of his last year at UCLA was the James Naisman defensive player of the year in college basketball 6'4 shooting guard he's going to be a factor maybe off the bench starting in 2024 so they've got some other young guys Josh Minot maybe and you still have picks because you can't trade back to back so it's not like it's five years with zero picks I think yeah I mean I think it's worth it because you went as far as you've ever been in your franchise's history so you like you matched or set a new watermark for your franchise you make a trade like that to pave a new path at some point with Anthony Edwards the expectation is going to be win a championship and maybe that expectation starts this upcoming season but I still think it was worth it and you don't play in the Western Conference Finals and give Anthony Edwards and Jay McDaniels these guys all these playoff games without Rudy Gobert's presence and I think there's a lot more value as you try to quickly build up Anthony Edwards into this monster top three top five player in the league playing really highly competitive basketball games World Cup Western Conference Finals Olympics this summer I mean over the course of like 15 months if you want to go back even to like last year's five game loss to the Nuggets you get your lunch handed to you by the champions in 2023 and then you go World Cup you become the leading scorer on the World Cup team then you help lead your NBA team to 56 wins or whatever in the regular season then you go deep into late May and now you go Olympics and all that volume of highly competitive basketball games it doesn't happen without the Rudy Gobert trade making you a better team overnight and it'd be nice to see them go further with Rudy Gobert but it's possible that like maybe the NBA Finals version of the Timberwolves comes in two or three years when Jay McDaniels is 26 years old and Anthony Edwards is closely so it was worthwhile I guess yeah and look I mean Gobert puts a premium on doing something that a lot of players in this league don't do so like that defensive end he's not you know he's not a sexy player he's got hands of stone like there's a lot of things to debate or pick apart but I don't think this team has the identity in fact I know he does not have the identity that it currently has if Gobert's not there yeah so this is just a small handful of Wolves pontifications and plus just as an aside think about this how much did Gobert take the spotlight away from Kat in a good way I feel like Kat and I'm not saying this is good or bad but I feel like the TNT guys would have spent the entire series against Dallas crapping on Kat but they barely mentioned him at times because they were crapping on Rudy yeah well and if Rudy wasn't part of the equation there wouldn't have been but yeah like adding great players to your team starts to slot some of the other guys properly and like I brought up Porzingis earlier Porzingis at the end of the day despite being a top 5 pick back from the Knicks like 7 years ago whatever it was not destined to be the leader of a championship team not destined to be the number 2 on a championship team but he's finding his fit right now as on any given night the 3, 4 or 5 on a potential championship team and that's I think at the end of the day where Carl falls if the Wolves win a championship and Kat is on the team he's probably the 3, 4 or 5 in those big series some nights like game 1 Porzingis this is my game but I don't think Kat is going to be leading can you keep him around as just an incredible he hasn't in the playoffs and at some point when your scoring average falls off 5 points per game from your regular season average and now it's been we're not talking about a 3 game playoff sample here it's just a fact that his performance dips in the playoffs Anthony Edwards' performance elevates in the playoffs who else can you find to sort of fit between those two guys this was no knock against Nas and I tweeted it out and I feel like it got interpreted as that but the huge game that Nas had at Target Center against the Mavs where he ultimately his first miss was the potential winning shot at the buzzer that should have been Kat's night like that should have been Kat that's what you needed from Kat that night that's a great story that's awesome but when you look at Carl that's to your point about there are nights where you're going to be the 4-5 and there are nights where you're going to emerge I felt that that had to be Carl's game and Carl was sort of lost in that game yeah I think I agree with your greater point which is he doesn't live up to that billing often enough and what happens is people say well but they want to beat Denver right but there's not just one or two series in the playoffs there's four if you want to win a championship and it's not good enough to just okay I had a great series or two against these teams and well you can't rip me too much if I don't show up in the next one because look what I did in the first two series no I mean if you're trying to win a championship you need your Supermax players your unicorns to be Supermax unicorns when the chips are on the table so there's already some reckless speculation stuff out there too about Kat and also a couple other players the Wolves could target too this offseason so we've got plenty of those episodes that we will line up on Flagrant Howls but those are just a few pontifications as I sadly watch these NBA finals you watch Celtics kick the Mavericks asses so far and Styles make fights and Celtics Timberwolves Celtics would have been favored but Celtics Timberwolves would have been a really fun fight to watch but we'll have to wait I guess this is a Timberwolves lifestyle podcast here Flagrant 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