This is a global player original podcast. How do you actually support someone with ADHD? What should you avoid doing even if you mean well? And how do you protect yourself from doing too much?
I'm Katie Brethwick. And I'm Sam Pittis. Welcome to Your Wrong About ADHD. Alright Sam.
Yeah, I'm well. We get a lot of people getting in touch. Wanting to learn more about ADHD or saying that they've learnt things from the podcast because they want to help a family member with ADHD. And we thought we'd talk about that today, looking out from the other side if you like, how you live with and support someone like us, which can be a bit of a challenge.
Yes, I mean, there are two things here. Aren't there? There's the partner who is trying to help her partner or a child who might have ADHD or who has been diagnosed with it. There's also the person with ADHD who is trying to help a family member with ADHD.
So there are those two kinds of supportive slash caring relationships to look at. But yeah, the kinds of messages that we get here to Your Wrong About ADHD tend to be from the kind of person who has suspicions that the partner might have it and they want to do next. And it's a really big thing. I mean, from my point of view, this episode feels like a bit of a guilty question because I just I feel what we're essentially doing is giving our partners an episode to tell them how to help us.
That just seems like a really selfish thing to do. But here we are. But we're not doing that because we totally understand that you can't just tell someone, look, you've got to put up with my ADHD. You've just got to grin and bear it because that's not sustainable.
And I can tell you that from experience, it is about giving take in a relationship. It's about making sure that we're making an effort as well. But there is a need for somebody who doesn't have ADHD to understand it, to actually understand what's going on for me or for their love on that has ADHD. There is a need to really in any given moment.
So why is that person overwhelmed? Actually, how are they reacting that way? How are they brain just gone offline when I'm talking to them and not taking it personally? And that is not something that happens overnight.
No, absolutely not. And also what I find really interesting in this conversation is that you and I talk about how much we have learned along the way as we've kind of got to grips with our ADHD and what it is and how to deal with it. Our partners also have to do that too in terms of their level of understanding and their responses to things. And I know that my husband often, I mean, we're talking on a daily, if not hourly basis, has to breathe deeply when I do or say something because he knows that that was my ADHD.
And he said that since the diagnosis, he's found those moments so much easier because of the level of understanding that he can bring to that moment. He's obviously the same applies to our kids when they do something similar. You know, the lost wallet in the street that was returned by our neighbor to my son. That was a moment of, ah, there it is.
Welcome, my ADHD friend. But you know, rather than in the olden days, I might have lost it a bit with him and gone, I can't believe you did that. And that's really irresponsible. There's a sense of, well, that's because he hasn't quite got to grips with the strategy of how to keep his wallet on him.
And that's okay. You have to learn that level of compassion and understanding. And it's a journey for all of us, not just you and me, all of us. And honestly, for a partner, even a partner who understands, it can be annoying.
It can be frustrating. It can be honestly upsetting and isolating when, you know, your loved one, the person who is either your child or your husband or wife, whatever, is going into their own world and is sort of keeping your arms length. That can be really difficult. So what we thought we'd look at today is what's going on in relationships and what are some of the practical tips, some of the practical things you can do to support someone with ADHD.
We're going to be joined by Kate Morioseff. She hosts the ADHD Women's Wellbeing podcast. And she's also got a book coming out in a couple of months. We'll be asking her about that too, because it sounds absolutely fantastic.
And we'll be talking to Kate in a moment. Kate, lovely to have you on the podcast. Thanks for joining us. Thank you so much.
It's great to be here. Lots of people get in touch with us and they want to learn more about ADHD. They tell us and they say the podcast has been helpful to teaching them all about ADHD because they want to help family members. It's one of the reasons we wanted to talk to you today.
To start, what do you think is something that you wish people understood more about the lived experience of ADHD? I think it's the overwhelm, how easily we're overwhelmed and how easily we're sort of tipped into like a spiral of anxiety and how one minute we could be coping or just about coping and then just one small thing or one small sentence or something that someone says and we just completely unravel. Obviously, it's been happening within us for a while. There's been a whirlwind of lots of different thoughts and emotions and worries and anxieties, but we sort of managed to maintain a sort of regulated exterior.
And then it's, I mean, I don't know about you, but for me, it can just take one thing and like the world's coming to an end. I'm closing my business. I'm canceling all my plans and that's the end of that. So I see that often in my kids, especially now that there's exams and all sorts of different pressures.
My husband, God bless him for 22 years nearly. He has helped me manage this overwhelm. It sounds like so obvious, but it's just putting it all into perspective and sometimes we can lose that perspective so easily. So I would say for me, it's the overwhelm and I do see it a lot in my community and my clients as well.
Since my diagnosis, that question of what is true that I ask myself when my mind is going, this is what's really happening, this is what's really happening and I go stop it. What is true and then starting to calm down? But clearly, you are lucky enough to have a wonderful partner who has gone on this ADHD journey with you, the crazy ADHD journey. We are lucky enough to have partners on that journey with us too.
And we're interested in finding out more about that role. The role of carer, I mean, let's be honest, often, sometimes there are days, hours, minutes when it's a caring role being married to somebody with ADHD. What is your advice to somebody who is maybe beginning to suspect that their partner has ADHD and wants to help them on that journey? What are the first steps that they should take?
I would try and be as compassionate and as patient as possible and as tolerant as possible because none of us want to be like this. It's not like we choose to spiral and feel anxious and get overwhelmed and then get burnt out and all of that. We need someone who can be that person, who can hold our hand, who can be almost that co-regulation partner to ground us and you say, well, what is real? Is that really, really true?
Or have you gone 50 steps ahead? Sometimes we don't want everyone to fix it all. We just need that person to say, it's OK. What's going on?
What's the biggest thing? What's really going on? What's the thing that you're really worrying about? And it can be like these crazy catastrophizations that we've gone down and we just need that person to sit with us and not invalidators, not ridiculers, not dismissers, not say, we're crazy.
Just be like, OK, I get that. We don't have to be a therapist. We don't have to have any training at all. We can just learn even though it's very frustrating to be married to us and to live with us.
I want to ask you because I don't necessarily want my wife to be a carer. And I have to say, one of the reasons I got diagnosed was because you described that spark of overwhelm. That was how I lived my life. So many years until I was married, my wife saw it and went, this isn't actually sustainable.
Or how most people are. But the difficulty was, she has said to me how she felt really lonely at times because she saw me. She loved me. She wanted to help me.
And she couldn't because she just didn't understand or couldn't get in there. So there has to be a part of you, someone with ADHD, who allows that partner to help you, but also doesn't put the weight of the world on them. 100%. Yeah.
And I'm really conscious of that as well. And so we have to take self responsibility. We need to go and get the help, the coaching, hopefully the neuroaffirming therapy, where we say, I'm going to take responsibility for this. I'm going to learn how to regulate my emotions.
I'm going to learn how to calm my nervous system and whether that's, you know, however you want to do that, you know, yoga or gardening or walking or dancing, whatever that is, we do have to take responsibility. But it's really hard to take responsibility when we have no awareness and we don't understand about ADHD and our partner doesn't understand. And really sadly, so many people I speak to have partners that don't believe about ADHD, think it's a fad, think it's just a trend, it's an excuse. And so it's really, really hard if you haven't got that person who is validating or supporting you or celebrating you or cheerleading you will kind of like, you know, saying yes, go and do that yoga class.
Or yes, cancel those plans, put better boundaries in place. So I do believe we do need a partner to support us, but there is a part of us that we have to go, right, okay, now what's going on now? And it's my time to take a bit of control over that. And how can the partner make sure that they're not overstepping the mark and taking too much control or being patronising?
Or becoming a carer? Or becoming a carer? Yeah. So it is fine balance, you know, as a parent, it's really, as you're, if you're parenting a child with ADHD and you're, and I have this with one of my kids and he's like a mirror to me and I spot all the things that I do.
And I kind of want to just like fix it for him, you know, be there handing him his keys, handing him his phone, making sure he's got his food and all of this. And it's a real struggle because I don't want him to go down all those avenues that I went down and I have to trust that now he's got an ADHD diagnosis. And I try and like drop little tickets and send podcasts and articles and little memes from Instagram or TikTok, whatever, that he is gaining that self awareness. I so relate to your point because I have the same thing parenting kids with ADHD.
I've had my eldest quite rightly push back in a kind of actually, I'm okay. I can do this because like you, I have found myself stepping in too soon because I want to prevent the upset. I don't want that horrible thing to happen to him that I know, you know, the forgetting of the keys or leaving his wallet at home and all that kind of stuff because it's horrible and complicated and traumatic trying to fix all of those issues and bless him. There was one particular sort of fiery moment where he just went, I'm okay.
I can do this by myself. And it was a real wake up call for me of realizing that I was, I was still sort of treating him like he was five years younger and trying to prevent all of those difficulties and sometimes those difficulties are learning opportunities. The minute you see the way it shows up for you in one of your kids, it's like this like, oh my God, I need to fix it because they can't go through what I want to do. And you know how to fix it because you spent a lifetime figuring out the strategies for fixing it.
So you know what to do. It's easy. I'm there constantly. Have you had a vitamin?
Have you had your supplements? Make sure you have protein or drinking enough water and I'm bored of myself and they're bored of me. But I do know that those things have helped me immeasurably and I know that if they just that simple thing of like, have you hydrated? Are you drinking of what you had for breakfast?
Like something so simple and granular and basic can make a really big difference to their day at school or studying, revising. But essentially I'm their mum and I'm an ag and it's boring and I kind of think, I don't know one day they'll appreciate it. I don't know where and but I have to kind of live with that. The easiest thing in all of this is if we feel like we're an ag or we're overstacking the mark or we're sort of just repetitively talking about the same things, it's just a model literally to model to me without saying anything.
I'm just going to go for a walk because I've had a really busy day and I just need to clean my head or I'm just going to do some yoga or I'm just going to go and stand in the garden and have a breather and not kind of say do you want to do it too, but just let them watch, let them see, let them sort of just absorb maybe subconsciously because I know that helped me watching my mum do all the things that she did and I know she's definitely quite ADHD and the things that she has done historically to help calm and regulate herself and so I think there's that famous saying of like kids watch you, they don't listen to you or something around that. So even if you don't do anything it's just model to them how you live your life to feel calmer and you know with more in a piece I would say. Taking back then to somebody who might be listening to this who is you're a typical and perhaps they've got a family member who's got ADHD we get lots of people getting in touch in that situation. There is a piece about this way you say in that situation I want to help this person but this person won't let me in and I recognise that with my wife when I'm in that panic situation that you just might have earlier.
Quite often it's quite a sort of selfish insular view because I mean my head and that's how I live a lot of my life and what can be difficult is that my wife might want to help but I'm not in a position to let her or you know I can't explain what's going on I'm becoming overwhelmed. It does seem to me that ongoing communication so that you are able to head off these sort of moments of crisis is key. Yeah 100% I mean for example in yesterday I had a bit of a meltdown to my husband I was on a dog walk and he was at work, he was at work, he was at a line where he wasn't meeting and I was able to just kind of empty all the thoughts and all the overwhelm from my head and it was just the right time and he really really did help me in that moment because I was able to explain to him what was going on and we found that many times like that kind of communications where it just so happens to align just works but sometimes like you say we're just not in that headspace we're not able to articulate we're not even sure what it is that's tipped us over the edge so maybe just having that person who understands that we will get there let's find that time where we're ready to talk and we're ready to open up and maybe where we're ready to say yeah now I need help because what happened yesterday was building up over weeks and weeks and weeks and I wasn't ready to listen to the advice he wants to give me and he gave me the advice and it landed for me in a way that wouldn't have landed for me you know a few weeks ago you use the word selfish earlier and you were talking about you know not being ready to listen and I think ADHD can be a pain to be around sometimes because we can be very sort of self orientated we are in our heads a lot of the time is there an issue sometimes that a partner can lose themselves a little because the whole space becomes about the ADHD you know is there an issue of self care about kind of needing to maintain boundaries and all that sort of thing to look after yourself before you take care of your partner with ADHD yeah I think that's a really good point actually and I'm definitely guilty about being in my head the whole time and I do think so yeah I do actually because we can be selfish and self-absorbed and we can be just thinking about everything that's going on in our world and then the minutes and when I ask something from a verse of us it's like oh I've got so much to do I've got so much going on I'm very overwhelmed and I've seen this in family members as well and it can be really hard so yes I do think that neurotypical does have to put those self care practices in place for sure because it can be hard work I think we bring lots of fun and creativity and enthusiasm and energy and empathy to our knowledge I think we should sell ourselves short because our self esteem is probably taking a knocking for many many years I think what's wrong with us so I think we bring a lot to the relationship in the partnership but maybe we do need a perspective to say yeah we can be quite self absorbed and how can I nurture my partner to make sure that they're getting an equal amount of care and attention as well just because then neurotypical doesn't mean that they don't get overwhelmed and anxious and worried and burnt out like they will as well it just might not be the same extremes or amount or however it looks just quite differently. I mean there is so much guilt attached to having ADHD certainly for me anyway a sense of how I behaved in the past and how much responsibility I take for it and certainly in terms of my early relationship with my wife and I think something you said earlier about taking responsibility that was a really a breakthrough me being committed to getting therapy to making sure that I had strategies to cope with ADHD it was sort of a trade off it was a bit that said to my wife I'm committed to doing this for you and she is there to be patient with me one of the things that strikes me though is we get a lot of messages from people who say look I think my husband or my mum may have ADHD and I don't know what to do about this because they are not up for talking about it they're not interested and I can't break through that is a really difficult position to be in.
Yeah it really is it's something that I've seen in the past as well and that person has to be ready that person has got to be open but it's very frustrating living with that person who isn't willing to you know like you say take that responsibility or be open or get curious about it and they shut it down it may be a self-protection mechanism it's something maybe it's just something so big that will unravel and they don't have the energy or the headspace to even go there unfortunately that's when you have to as that person who's living with this one is bringing you know those boundaries and those self-care and recognise that you can only do as much as you can in that situation and to really look after and you know protect yourself but if there's a way if there's like a tiny kind of like opening or a nuggets or a or you know what maybe I'll just kind of you know leave an article out or I'll send them you know podcast and just listen to this there's no judgment or anything maybe that can be helpful but that's really hard but sometimes that breakthrough does happen it just takes a little bit longer I would say. I think often it goes back to what we were saying earlier about showing somebody the benefit to them actually saying look there's a way you could be different and there's a way that perhaps you know if you would explore ADHD this could be something that would benefit you rather than me telling you that you've got ADHD and you need to sort it out. You've written the ADHD women's wellbeing toolkit tell us a bit about the book why you wanted to write it and particularly in it you've got some really practical tools and strategies for partners and friends wanting to help someone with ADHD. Yeah no absolutely so it's out in July the 17th of July and I really wanted to write this book because first of all it was all the stuff that I wanted to read when I was first diagnosed back in 2020 I just wanted so much help and guidance and practical solutions and acknowledgement and validation and also understanding about how especially it impacts you know women with our hormones with our cycles our nervous system you know rejection sensitive dysphoria and I wanted to blend so much of what I'm passionate about which is more sort of well being in the holistic side and I really wanted to learn how to do every day like every day know that there are ways around you know not fixing our ADHD but just helping it feel a bit easier but I also wrote this book for people like we've just been talking about who maybe want to support their loved one or they just want to understand that a little bit better or just be able to understand how they can support them on a daily basis so I've tried to make this book for anyone who even just suspects they've got ADHD you know if they're waiting for a diagnosis and they don't want to just be sort of sitting around not being able to do anything this is very practical it's very proactive and it's just easy and manageable ideas and acknowledgments I've tried to make it as easy to read as possible as ADHD friendly and lots of different colours and diagrams and it's sort of broken down into short chapters so it can be person's bedside table where they can just open it wherever they need that help and that support wherever they are in that week that day that month I think that's what I've achieved so I'm really really happy about it sounds amazing I need to read this bookcase it'll be on my bedside table in July just as a final question then if somebody is listening to this and they're thinking you know how can I help my loved one with ADHD where do they start to have an understanding of how deep the ADHD goes in so many capacities and the facets of our life you know it's not just or I've got my keys again or I've left the fridge door open or I've forgotten this or I'm disorganized I'm running late like that's very surface level and I think you know relatively manageable it's annoying it's the deeper stuff it's the rejection sensitive dysphoria it's the endless anxiety it is the hormonal fluctuations it's the really understanding how pervasive it can be in our daily life and when we have someone that understands that has empathy and compassion but also you know helps us and supports us and there's a sense of humour and just to have someone who loves us who is open to learning for me has been the biggest thing and my husband actually got blessed and he wasn't that open he was a bit sort of he did push back for quite a while if you didn't really want to hear and he was a bit of a cynic but he has slowly bit surely you know three girls with ADHD he has seen how it manifests and he is 100% open now so yeah he has learnt the hard way let's be honest all three of us here the reason why our partners are with us is because of our ADHD I can guarantee you the ADHD was the reason they were attracted to us in the first place well I hope you're right okay good luck with the book thank you so much for joining us oh thank you oh what a great chat such a helpful practical conversation and whether you have ADHD or you love someone who has got it so much to take away from that episode a huge thanks to our guest Kate Moriasseff and if you want to go deeper we highly recommend Kate's book the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit packed with thoughtful supportive advice it's out on the 17th of July and is available to pre-order now and in the meantime to check out her podcast the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.
Thanks for listening to You're Wrong About ADHD and as always if the episode resonated or helped do please share it with someone who might need it. We'll be back with a bonus episode on Friday speak to you then. Your Wrong About ADHD is made in association with Apex content ventures. This is a global player original podcast.