Can We Save The Seas? with Dr. Ann Cleveland — WildFed Podcast #163

Daniel met Dr. Ann Cleveland back on Halloween of this year, when he was invited to give a guest lecture at the Maine Maritime Academy where she's a Marine Biology Professor. Her husband, Dr. Alan Verde, who is also a professor there, was a guest on our show back on episode #160. While they were there, Ann gave Daniel and his wife a tour of the campus, and they had the opportunity to talk a bit about her work there, and he thought it would be great to get her on the show to discuss it. We didn't expect for them to take such a deep detour into the big picture of our precarious situation here on earth, but we're glad they did. Daniel and Ann go deep on topics of climate, fisheries, and our future here on this beautiful planet. We always imagine that those in marine biology must have a front-row seat from which to view the severity of our pollution crisis, habitat and biodiversity loss, and the rapid climate-induced ecological changes that are taking place in a way that most of us — especially if we aren't engaged ecologically with nature — are only intellectually aware of at best or oblivious to at worst. So, in this conversation, Daniel quickly found himself parting with ichthyology and focusing more on the existential. It's hard not to, since the more time we spend hunting, fishing, and foraging, the more concerned we grow for the planet's ecology. Not because of hunting, fishing, or foraging themselves, but because — like we just mentioned for marine biologists — these food pursuits bring you face to face with the reality of what is happening in the "environment" that everyone loves talking about but so few really go out and experience. In particular, we wrestle with the population-wide reliance on commercial fisheries. We always cringe to say that out loud. We have several friends that make their living as fishermen. We love what they do, love to eat their harvest, and love to go out fishing with them when we have the opportunity. We deeply respect the trade, profession, and ancient lifestyle of those who work the sea. We recognize its important place in our heritage and that it's a lot more than just a job. We also feel that ending the market hunt was one of the best things we could have done for conservation and it's the reason that contemporary folks like you or me get to hunt in North America. If we had continued on, harvesting our game for the market, it's unlikely they'd be much of anything to hunt today. Many now recovered expirations would have, no doubt, become extinctions. We'd be remiss not to mention the passenger pigeon as a perfect example of what we mean. Things in our sea are more complex. First, they are far more productive than our terrestrial ecosystems, giving the false impression that they can supply our population with protein limitlessly. Due to the water's obfuscation, the ocean's reserves can seem bottomless. But of course, they aren't. With so much of the modern world still dependent on the sea for its food, we don't think it's alarmist to be concerned about the sustainability of this approach. But unlike landmasses with sovereign borders, the seas are a shared resource. Who can regulate them? Who would we trust to regulate them? And while we here in the US have made tremendous strides towards sustainable regulation, much of the world is far too concerned with immediate subsistence to trifle with such concerns. People need to eat. We believe in wild foods — of course — it's why we make this show. In particular, we think the wild foods of the sea are critical to our health and can help foster an important relationship to planetary ecology when approached with that intention. But, like a good old case of cognitive dissonance, we simultaneously fear we are taking too much, too fast, with technologies that are too disruptive or too effective. Want to know the solution? Yea, us too. But until then, we appreciate being able to have the conversation. So a big thanks to Dr. Ann Cleveland, who came on to talk about ichthyology, and found herself in a conversation about the sustainability of the human lifeway on planet earth. Ann, we really appreciate your input and perspectives here. We hope this conversation inspires some deeper thought and inquiry into the topic. It certainly is becoming a pressing one. And we can't help but think things are just getting started! View full show notes, including links to resources from this episode here: https://www.wild-fed.com/podcast/163