Cano versus Neuman

You're listening to the Wisps. Wasatch investigative studies of paranormal stuff. Wait, what wasatch wasatch investigates? science of Perinou- wasatch wasatch.

Look through the Wisps, okay? It's an awesome super fun time paranormal adventure show. Seriously. Gary, you're never allowed to name anything again.

It's quite possible. She is right next to your booth. She was directly across on my watching, right? It's kind of funny because like Liz and I are having a conversation and things that are happening are accented by boom.

So it really gets gravitas to our statements. It's really gonna make you tell look about it. Brian Campbell gets scalped at the metaphysical expo. Well, just say it's in Georgia.

By the way everybody, hey welcome to the Wis show. We are here for a special edition. I'm your host, Castle. I'm looking for you, Tim.

Jeff, hey man. Oh, normally you introduce me. You dropped the ball there. I am your other host, Beaker or Tim.

Or Tim. And we've got a special guest with us today. We interviewed him for all the 15 minutes a few weeks ago. And it's Brian, Tanner from Hanh, collector.

Say hi, Brian. Hey, hey guys. What's going on? And had I known at the time that we weren't as on a time-tight schedule as we were, we would have interviewed Brian a lot longer.

But he was one of the first interviews we did and we thought we were on a pretty tight time schedule. So I have told Brian that he wants to ride back to his hotel at the end of this thing. He would come and sit down with us and do a full blown interview. Take as many of those as you want.

How about the kind of world across the country just like everybody else? Here's a Wis bracelet. Yeah, it's a bag full Wis bracelet. So we were selling them for a dollar, then we just said give them away.

You got to give them away. And last year for the Paranormal Festival, we sold a handful for a dollar and the dollar is still the bottom one. I think we made like $10 off of them and then we just gave them away. So for those of you that bought them, it's like to be a fun screw you.

I throw them at people. That's pretty much what I do. Yeah, you take this. Come.

So last time when we talked to Brian, we kind of asked you a little bit about the Honda Collector and whatnot. But I asked you one question that we've kind of been dying to have answered. And that's uh, we asked you how you got involved with the Paranormal and you told us that was about a 45-minute story. And it just so happens that we have 45 minutes.

So we would like to hear your story. Oh, you're gonna get the clip notes because I do have to go on stage in a little while. And if I'm gonna tell a 45-minute story, it's gonna be in front of a crowd of people. Just pretend that our listeners are your crowd of people.

Oh, it's good. It was good to have listeners. I like talking to these guys. All seven of them.

But you guys are huge and Bolivia. And Uzbekistan. Uzbekistan. We've got some Belgium.

We've got some Belgium listeners. Hey, if it's Tuesday, it must be Belgium. They always love it when we give them a shout out. And they make fantastic waffles there.

So I hear the Belgian waffles. So let's hear the abbreviated version of the story. Brian, how did you get involved in the Paranormal? Oh, well, that's a completely different story.

But how I got involved in the Paranormal is pretty much... I don't know. I don't know if anyone chooses this and just says, hey, you know what? I'm gonna hunt ghosts.

I'm gonna get involved in the Paranormal. I can always seem to be an evolution and you just find yourself there after a long road of interesting things that happen to you. And you look down and you're like, wow, I guess I'm in this now. This is happening.

And I feel that when I was a child, I think this is true for most of us. When I was a kid, I was pretty much into everything. I believed in everything. I walked shows like in search of with Leonard Nimoy.

And at the end of every episode, you would see the end credits and you would see flashes of different things like Blockness Monster, The Pyramid, Stonehenge, every 51. And these were these amazing mysteries that continued to this day to fascinate us. But when I was a kid, I thought, I'm gonna find out the answers to all of this. I'm gonna get to them.

I'm gonna go to all those places. And you grow up, then you get into a job, you're about paying bills and taxes, and you get weighed down and this thing called that stuff. And all those dreams of adventure kind of take a backseat to reality. Then here comes a thing called the Paranormal.

In 2002, I started doing a cable access show in Staten Island called Scared on Staten Island. And it was just pretty much a couple of buddies and I. In some handheld cameras, we would go into these abandoned places in our hometown that had rumors of activity. Be it, the devil worshippers doing rituals or ghosts or, oh, there was a murder here and he dragged bodies down tons and some levels below.

There's plenty of urban legends. And we figured, you know what? That these places are as haunted as everyone says they are. We should be able to go in there with some cameras and document something.

And this was around the time of Blair Witch. So all our stuff was really hard to watch. Shaky cam. You know, it's almost watchable.

But that was kind of the beginning of my, I guess you would say, official paranormal career because we just had such a good time doing it. The audience response was so... Well, you could say it was good, but most of the time the comments were, Oh my God, you guys are crazy. I would never go in there.

Like, yep, that's us. We're gonna ten years down the line, end up with asbestos, or a missile thing like that. But we're doing it for you. And I'm sure there's some fantastic settlements on that missile thing.

Give me a little bit of a based on the afternoon lawyer commercials. Absolutely. So now when you guys were doing like your urban exploring stuff, did you guys have any, or did you have any experiences you consider paranormal or that kind of got you headed that direction? By the time I was doing the K-Laxxis show, the boy who had been fascinated by all those mysteries of the world had evolved into a complete skeptic.

I was 100% a skeptic, I didn't believe anything. I had a crisis of faith, so there was really no religion to fall back on. So for me, my job on that program was to find the logical and rational explanations for all the things that were happening. I figured it out and say, you know what, well this is the explanation.

There's no such thing as ghosts. Come on, we're gonna get to the bottom of this. So for me, the paranormal nature of it was secondary to the adventure. So we were very much urban explorers.

Urban explorers first, paranormal investigators second. And this was before the days of ghost hunters and ghost adventures and everything we have now. They just, they weren't on TV. This was 2002.

So back then, the paranormal was pretty much an October adventure. You know, you get all the ghost shows coming on like, I'm here because scariest place is volume five. And by the time you got to, it's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown, you know, you're past that and you're off to Thanksgiving, you're off to Christmas. And that was that and people didn't think about ghosts again till the next year.

But then, 2004, ghost hunters hits and then all the TV, the area is just explode with content. And now it's a year round thing. It's 24, 7, 365. And because we had started off before this, we figured, all right, you know, we're just gonna keep doing it.

But we got influenced by a lot of the things around us. So we went from urban explorers and we started getting more serious by gearing up, getting more equipment, having a process to what we did. And if you look at some of the earlier episodes of Scared, like the watchable ones anyway, like Denver's, asylum, Philadelphia State Hospital, AKA, by Barry, it's pretty much just us walking around. And plenty of things happen to us.

Don't get me wrong, but the paranormal nature, back then, skeptic Ryan would not have acknowledged it because I just didn't believe these days now. I guess if I went back and if I could re-experience those things again in my own body with a different perspective, I'm sure there was a lot that presented itself that I just missed. So was there like a defining moment for you or do you remember exactly when you went from like being a skeptic to more of a believer in the paranormal? For me it wasn't one instance or one event.

I know a lot of people have a story that changed them and I was forever changed and this is it. I'm a believer now. Show us where the ghost touched on the doll. Exactly, exactly.

It was here. His name was Bob. But no, every experience I say is like a grain of sand. Individually and alone when looked at it, it's small, seems inconsequential and it's like, I know big deal, you toss it on the floor.

But then after a while after doing the work for so many years, you look down and you find yourself standing on a peach. All those collected grains of sand form something that has to be considered as a whole. So each individual grain of sand is not a lot but the beach. I have to consider what this means.

So for me, it was a gradual evolution and I found myself presented with mind-blowing moments. I usually call them I swear away. I call them most shit moments and it's those things that you're presented with that challenge you. I mean these days we take a lot of it for granted but the first time I found out what an EVP was, I was floored.

I said, oh my god and again this is from a bunch of guys who just wandered around to band in places with cameras. I found out what an EVP is. We can do this or something that happens. Oh my god.

And I wrestled with it and every oh shit moment I had, I mean there was one for ITC in real-time communication, time-stream group, things from the other side. I found out about the work of Roudevay and Jurgensen and some of the early guys in the spiritualist movement and everything that I learned I was presented with an oh shit moment where I had to let it process and very much like the stages of loss, grief. There's the presenting of the information. There's denial.

You struggle with it. There's bargaining and then finally acceptance. And it's okay, you know, each of these things is now part of me and part of my tool belts and every oh shit moment brought me more and more from skeptic to believer and actually these days I consider myself a skeptical believer. That's exactly what we consider ourselves as well as we believe but we're going to try to find the logical explanation before we just go hey it's memorable.

Absolutely. Well and you know there's kind of four categories that I like to put out there and that's a skeptical believer, a closed-minded believer, a skeptical, I can't remember. Open-minded skeptic and open-minded believer. And then closed-minded.

Closed-minded skeptic, closed-minded believer. You don't even know his own categories. Right? I'm playing D&D here.

It's like, I had a good character control, love a good. Well and you know and it's for me it's interesting because they played a lot of D&D The closed-minded folks are the most. The closed-minded folks are the most frustrating most. And that's on the believer and the skeptic scale.

Your closed-minded skeptics are the ones where a ghost can do a frickin mamba in the middle of their bed you know at 3am and they're still gonna go you know I had some bad pizza. But you also have your closed-minded believers that you know the door swings closed and even though there's a hurricane ghosting outside by damn it was a ghost and nothing's gonna convince me otherwise. And my favorite spot for everybody is the open-minded skeptic. I'm gonna look at everything with a grain of salt.

I'm gonna see if I can figure out what caused it and if I can't then I'm gonna open my mind with the possibility that it's something I can't explain. Well I feel that's it. I mean it all comes down to semantics because whether you're a closed-minded believer or an open-minded skeptic I don't think anyone is a skeptic per se. You can be skeptical because a skeptic would be like hey hey castle it's a data map.

No it's not. No it's not. Prove it. Like you know no one is a skeptic by nature about everything but my particular brand of skeptical believer is that I know the phenomenon exists.

It's out there. It's part of our universe. I know it's there. I'm skeptical of the people who report it because they're like oh my god my house is haunted is it?

Well let's find out why well this move. Okay well the window is open and there's a breeze blowing it. Oh you know so a lot of people don't want to use that common sense they just want to jump to my house is haunted or I've got a problem where I'm like oh my god something's happened to me and that's that's the like you know it's funny you said beaker before because some people are beakers. Me me me me me me me me me.

That's the other section of my nickname. So that would make you buns and honey do what it's perfect and if you listen to see these guys accurate. I think we got you a nickname you no longer castle you're buns and don't see these guys you'll burn your corn yes because a lot of times it just means you don't show so we can totally call it the beaker buns and show. There you go.

Yeah just got an anecdote thanks Brian. Hey you're welcome man. So was there like I know for me when I first got an investigating there was like one experience that I had that just kind of it's one that I'll never forget. It's not necessarily a good experience that I had it was kind of more a negative experience but it's very memorable for me I'll never forget it.

Do you have any experiences like that like one that you know that just kind of hit you in the fills and you know that you're it's going to be with you for the rest of your life like. Yeah that would be the 45 minute story of the Grand Midway Hotel and I say that because this is the one and only location the one and only case I've ever done that had an element of the demonic and if we don't want to say the word demonic you could say malevolence negative. We're fine with that word. Yeah we we tend to grapple with the rest of our community on demonic stuff because we very much we would expect we actually think it's misidentified more often than not.

I mean it's a very low level that people must identify but the big issue of this is that again the term demon is very much a Christian a Catholic construct so I mean they're entities and we've put a specific quote on them that says okay this is what a demon is and I mean you have a lot of entities out there that exhibit demonic like abilities you have gin you have a shadow figure sheepshifting you know you have all these things that may present themselves and the knob's a festival would go oh my god demon but that's not to say that the demons don't just they're out there and when you when you come across one it's good to not be cavalier about it. We find that sometimes it's a lot better to say in human spirit instead of demon because people like they hear the word demon they get freaked out scared but the human spirit seems to kind of be a more like I kind of want to dance. Yeah yeah laid down castle yeah people seem to be more comfortable with the term in human spirit right I mean essentially the same thing because I mean we've got like elementals and like a gin and shape shifters and all that essentially they're all anything spirits were technically could be classified as demonic and I think they're not as I have no idea. I would challenge that though because I mean to say something demonic demonic is a very negative feeling like you don't have any good demons per se given given the aspect of free will that allows us entities to exhibit I mean take gin for example our agent a lot of times they're miscategorized as demons but they have the free will to choose to do good or bad and it's all perspective depending on who it is that's witnessing the activity but this case that we worked on it changed me in the respect that for me I was raised Catholic I'm no longer a practicing Catholic but all the old teachings the lessons everything I heard it resonates with me so when you say demon okay if it's a spirit if it's a ghost yeah I can handle that because I've got tech I've got knowledge and I'm ready to do this what you say demonic all the sudden that brings in to my soul into the mix my soul is at risk and I don't know how to deal with that I mean I'm sitting in the middle of a metaphysical expo right now and I still feel like wow we are ill equipped to handle this as a whole individually case by case yeah we can work with it we can get to the bottom of it but that's that's what I'm still struggling with the big picture of the war between good and evil and my place in it's as a bystander I try to avoid those cases as best I can because you know what when you study evil studies you we've found this to be very true with what we do yes we do like when we were outside trying to drop people in I told you that we focused mainly on residential investigations and they always seem to kind of have some kind of for some reason for us it's never just hey there's a nice you know cast person there talking to the family it always seemed to have some kind of like negative undertone to it and I know at least one case that we've worked on that actually had a gin on it and that one that wasn't negative and that's something like you know we haven't dealt with a lot and we're still learning on that and then it's kind of like you know when we were out there talking earlier the the paranormal community has to be together on this like we learn from each other and we help each other grow so we you know without the knowledge from other people for each other all our own we're only gonna be able to go so far you know none of these entities ever give us their ID card we kind of have to figure it out which makes it tough makes it tough now last night after we went to the Union Station last night did an investigation and after the investigation we sat down for some Mexican food and you uh floated a really interesting theory about EVPs that I think our listeners might be interested in and I know that Tim is not aware of this theory is that all right if we talk about that a little bit yeah yeah that's great I call up the psychic rejection experiment now this is something I've been doing for the past nine years now I posit that a certain percentage of EVPs that we get in fact do not come from spirits they come and are generated by us by ourselves by the observer by the investigator now think of this way you're doing an EVP session and you ask some specific questions things like how many are with us how old are you what year is it now the thing those three questions happen common are they're all numerical in nature the answers are going to be numbers at least you hope now because you have this subconsciously your brain is already generating numbers and a lot of the questions we ask we think we know the answers to because of the history of the location because of the stories that the caretakers may have told us when we first arrived and by asking the specific questions hoping for specific answer that's almost like putting it out there this is subconscious energy that's going now some of the research to back of this up would be I cite the Philip experiments done in Canada back in the 80s a research group decided to conduct EVP sessions with a construct they called Philip didn't exist they had no reason to talk to Philip but they made a name a backstory a history everything they feel essentially they were filling out the dnd character sheet and they said okay this is who Philip is was Philip a chaotic good or I think he was chaotic good because he didn't he didn't steal their souls and he does 2d4 worth of damage was he a fighter a wizard or a clerk I think he was a mimic he was one of those weird boxes that just kind and in fact you're laughing knows what you mean you know what a mimic is so we're a geek nation by the way brian's got fantastic taste of music I found out yeah we rocked out to information society on the way to the investigation lines I was thinking but uh back to the public I didn't get to go because I had to work you got to rock we interrupted your theory guys right it's him got to rock um so yeah so okay the phillip experiment made me think that yeah this is definitely possible so I can judge experiment and I've been doing this for eight nine years now I have the investigation group you know how many people are with us focus on a word I say all right guys for the next 60 seconds we're gonna do nothing but think of this word and I usually have someone make it up on the spot so we'll go okay uh okay sir make up a word and they'll give me a word I try to make it simple between one and two syllables like brian's safe work broccoli no I would never use broccoli there's nothing good about broccoli that's not safe I love broccoli ladies and gentlemen that's a weird dude I just broke the show I love broccoli and my dropping shows me when I just stop it now we're done I should for those of you don't know you can't see me he's actually dressed on a broccoli costume which I thought was weird when I sat down but I tell you man I rolled it castle let's go to the metaphysical I was sweet I'm dressed on as broccoli today we're here to represent the food groups hey Tim I thought you were gonna get dressed up too what no I was just kidding that the broccoli council pays well so I want to come see the experiment I have people choose a word now this is always because it needs to come from the moment and I found that either humor or something visceral works best something that means something to the group over the nine past nine years I've been doing this I've only gotten this to work 11 times which is a horrible batting average with the fact that it's worked at all in a case that there's something to this and there's something more to be experimented at any time it's worked the word has been something that meant something for instance the first time it worked I had a place called the seven sisters in in Ocala Florida there was a group maybe seven people and myself and I said all right guys we're gonna do this all right sir take a word for me the guy thinks about it for a second goes bird bird is the word and everyone in the room laughs because yeah bird is the word so we okay for the next 60 seconds we all concentrated on bird and we thought about it and we did what we could and when I played back you hear the recording go okay the word password is bird 60 seconds starts now there's a pause and then you hear very faintly and then underneath it just a kind of a littio very low but there and we could confirm I mean we're only recording for 60 seconds so everyone was still everyone was quiet there was no stomach rumblings there's no coughs it was quite amazing and no one was more surprised than I was even though I was doing the experiment for maybe six seven years at the time oh my god it worked and since then it's been working more and more often other words that have worked like one was scared because I was the name of my group one was um stomach actually that just happened last week and aridale in Ararat Australia we were at Aridale Asylum and every EVP session we did everyone's stomach kept grumblings it's like tag stomach tag stomach oh tag that was me so it's joking we said yeah the password stomach and then we heard it in the UK earlier this year the password was gone because one of the investigators did a spot on column impression and golem came up three times right okay this is this means something so I feel like as researchers we have to look into this and account for possibility that some of the EVPs were getting are us and we need to look into this further because I mean for the most part again we take EVPs for granted yeah spirits are just giving us messages but how are they getting those messages out to us they don't have a physical body to meet vibrations in the air that we can hear and since we don't hear them it's probably a psychic projection that being said everything being energy everything being vibration why can't we get our thoughts on the recorder that's a really good theory that wasn't saying if you think about I mean in theory we have spirits and so when we die our spirit is just kind of floating around whatever those spirits do and so why can't we do that now just as they can do it now so it is a fantastic theory I should try that sometime I know I think we're gonna try that next time think about this way I mean you said we're spirits inside material bodies okay it's like I was getting into a car I could get to my car and drive to wherever I could also get out of the car and walk would be harder just like this you know yeah this doesn't work often and oh the times it worked I feel that it may have been because of psychic presences when it worked in Ocala of the seven people three of them were practicing psychics so who knows I mean maybe if you assign a value of one to every person maybe psychics are worth a value of three and you need a value above x to cross that threshold of coalescence and again I don't have this data I don't have these numbers yet but that's why I continue to do these experiments you know I've actually seen castle holding a k-2 meter and without realizing it he was just kind of waving his hand back and forth over the top of it and didn't realize he was actually setting the k-2 off with with his own energy and for me like seeing him do that knowing that that's possible to me it would stand a reason that it's also possible that we could throw our thoughts out there and have the record pickles up absolutely I mean just think of it sometimes like especially people you have close connections with family members close friends you find yourself thinking the same things or hey you know you call someone I was just about to call your I was just thinking of you that actually happened to me recently when I bought my salt lamp I was at a local store here with our team medium and I I was looking at the top shelf and she sat on the floor and there was one that she started thinking of and she totally like threw her thoughts into my head and then drew my attention to the salt lamp that she was looking at because I was looking at like you know the ones that are like tall like weird crystal shapes this was the only one that was a complete sphere and for me like being a tall person I'm 6 foot 5 I usually start at the top of a shelf and work my way down I looked like maybe two on the top shelf and then was instantly drawn to that one that she was also looking at right so I mean again completely possible for like what you said when you're close with someone to be able to kind of share that thought process sometimes I feel like my iPod has a second interface because I'm like I really want to hear this song and it comes on and thousands of songs on your iPod it's just obviously it's you know coincidence but who knows maybe you can secondly interface with your iPod let's put this to the tent I got an iPod right here we can test this I've seen your playlists let's not hey so let me ask you this and that's kind of shift your shirt just a little bit so you started out as an urban explorer how did you end up going from doing your cable access show to the haunted collector how did that process happen from cable access once the proliferation of the show became apparent and this was a thing that like wow you could do and really the audience was there we moved our show from cable access to the internet we left Staten Island and shortly the show from scared on Staten Island to just scared and we just explored the country and like I said our methods got more precise we went with a more scientific method based and as we continued to do it I think just you know conventions started popping up we started speaking at conventions started doing just doing the work and it was I had a convention in Gettysburg and I knew we were going and John's app is gonna be one of the guests and if you're in the paranormal you know who John's app is and he's known at least in our parts as the godfather of the paranormal if you listen to the show you know John's app is this because Castle Drew's over on like every episode I have a respect for John's app as you should and I remember you know reaching out to him and this was on my space at the time which dates it I wrote to John I said oh wait Dylan Brian is old yeah I am don't let the good hair flee I wrote to him and I said oh mr.

Zachus I see we could be appearing at the same events later this month I would be great to meet you I would have to you know give some of your thoughts blah blah blah okay very reverent very godfather godfather didn't mean a lot a lot of gravitas so my buddy and I my buddy Chris and I we roll up to this convention now in Gettysburg was held at the Eisenhower Hotel it has two entrances that's built on a hill so one of the entrances is at the bottom of the hill and the other one is at the top so we roll up to that first entrance and we look in and there just inside the doorway I saw I was like Chris my god that's John's app is all we got to talk to him and I was getting all nervous so I go in and John's app said disappeared but that particular front desk said oh no you're the wrong front desk you have to go to the other one okay so we get back in the van drive up the hill the second part and you know it's walkable but it's easier to drive get out and I go to the second desk and there's John's app is inexplicably like he should not have been able to cover that much grounds in the time it took us to drive up the hill so I'm like oh I made a note of it okay John's app is everywhere and I noticed as the convention went on the man would appear and seemingly just at random intervals across distances that he could not have humanly got across at the time he's got like body doubles like set up the same well this is what I said to Chris I said how many you know he must have body doubles and clones or what like wow so okay it's the evening and everybody's kind of relaxing we're having the party and there's a couple drinks going around and we're outside my buddy Chris is having a cigarette and everybody congregates to have a smoke John comes out and Chris is three sheets of the wind at this point so he doesn't care and he goes his at this I walk I got to answer your question and he's like yep yep go ahead what's up buddy he goes how many of you are there he goes what he goes every everywhere we go you're there it's like it's like in a horror movie you're running away from Jason and he's behind you and then he's in front of you and he's like what and then John decided to bust balls because what like you had a dream about me it's like no no no you're like Jason you're like Jason you're like not ready Jason and you're running through the woods and you're trying to escape him because you had a dream about me and Jason hauls in the woods no no no I didn't say that I said we're running away from you like Jason he goes Jason and I are naked in the woods Chris is beginning to sweat at this point this is the side of John's outside there I've seen I'm I'm mortified because I'm like oh my god what's happening here and then I kind of noticed a look on John's face and it's like a little twinkling as I am like oh he's messing with us and so then he starts laughing and then Chris gets it and he starts laughing instantly right John's happens is a normal guy and he's you know he's beyond being godfather paranormal elder statesman of sorts it's got a lot of knowledge she's the nephew of Ed Warren so he's a legacy he's a regular guy you can hang out with him you could talk with him he's so personable and if you didn't know he was John's app is you wouldn't know he's right hey there's this guy you know he was hanging out with him it was very cool castle on the other hand we'll make you buy him dinner yeah castle's not a real guy castle's having asshole you're a castle there you go let's tunic names today hashtag I own it but just from then we you know and I always tell people this you can't work in the paranormal seriously for any extended amount of time and not running to John's app is it's just you know geography being what it is the guys all over the place you're gonna run into adventure or at least talk to him or have some interaction so from there from that point we've just been teams at this and we got to do a documentary on his life called john's half his world within which was probably the most blessed production I've ever worked on everything just came together it was a lot of fun and we did it in three months which is unheard of we premiered it at dragoncon it was just amazing just from there that's that's what led to haunted collector I always call the world within the haunted collector prequel of sorts because all of us are in it and when john you know john had this show in development he showed me this is a real and I was like hey good to you john that's cool if you're getting a show then this was just supposed to be a family show the network says yeah you need to get a tech guy you need someone with the equipment at that point just it just happened that my job was downsizing I lost my position I was free and it goes hey what are you doing what's your come on what's your come with me and I guess the rest is history so with haunted collector um yes at three seasons and I know we talked last night and that four season but there are some another show kind of bumped you guys a little bit um out of all the experiences you had on the show which one kind I was the most unsettling or kind of freaked out the most or was or one the free devil might be a better question oh all the three seasons of all the shows I mean there was a different lesson to be taken away in each one of them there was something different about each place and we would have a lot of conversations in between and I gotta say I wish I wish it was out on a proper TV with extras and interviews and comments but there was a lot of evidence that was better than what you saw on TV but because it didn't work into the storyline it didn't quite make it but we would have conversations in the van in between cases and like hey john you know maybe this is about elementals or what about this when he was a general there's psychic sickness all these concepts that we just didn't have time to get to on the show but I think one of them that stands out amongst the many we were at a place called spirit springs in Virginia and typical typical activity okay there's a lot going on the full gamut we got help is leaving into the show turns out that the object in question was a native American fetish doll now we had this mad search that led us outside to a grove of trees that had been kind of devastated from a tornado a couple of months prior and inside the trunk of one of this the split trunk we found this this doll and john didn't want us to touch it because he said you know we don't want any contact with it we don't want to get any of its energy on us uh john called in a local shaman to come and take care of it now the lesson to be taken away here and the thing that freaks me out you watch on a collector there's always some broken piece of jewelry or some family heirloom or something usually a piece of junk that we haul away that is causing this activity now when it comes to haunted objects i've seen it falls into one of two categories either a there's a spirit that is somehow attached to it either by three will it loves it it wants it or is drawn to it or is bound to it that's causing the trouble or the object itself is not haunted in any way but it's a catalyst for existing energy in the home uh a site example in Elizabethtown where a kkk road and a slave tag were together in the same museum and those two different ideologies symbols of racism were stirring up the activity so the item itself didn't bring in the activity but it caused it and the energy that was there so by removing it people listening so okay here we have this this this fetish doll this wasn't an object that inherently had any any negative properties but the problem here is that yeah we could take the doll away but someone had to make it someone made that doll with the express purpose of bringing harm and torment to its intended victim we could take the doll away but whoever did that is still out there and they could make another one that's human evil and that's something we can't regulate you know and that's something that's always kind of bothered me because we've run into a few instances where the haunting has been the cause of basically a curse something where someone has intentionally brought something you get someone else and that's the thing is you know you can bandaid it but ultimately whoever caused it can just as quickly cause it again as you said it's just human evil it's just ill intent towards your fellow man and it's almost evil in its purest form if you think about it to bring those kind of forces in on somebody uh you know you can show up on someone's doorstep and threaten to beat their ass for a lack of better term but you can beat their ass right back when they're bringing those dark energies and forces in unless you really know what you're doing that's hard to combat especially when it's unseen and you don't know the source of it by the time you get to that then you have to consider oh my god someone out there is out to get me i mean if it as insurance companies call them act of god okay the flood comes along destroys your house all right things happen a storm comes along hurricane a tornado these things happen but if someone comes and does something to you that's an entirely different set of rules and that's that can be scarier than the unseen acts of nature well i know that you've got to start getting back for uh some things i've got schedules for you but what kind of projects you got going on right now do you still work with john's at us what uh what do you have in the works who in the works that's a good question i feel like i'm always juggling on multiple projects at once uh and john's family works in the family now so uh i'm always going to be working with john the show might be over but the work continues i continue my work in something i call power loss of e which is uh you actually can go to my website never stop searching dot com and check out what that is i've found lately i care less about the how how to do things and more about the why why do we do what we do why do we do it the way we do if there's a lot of things that need to be considered and i want people to slow down i want people to do less and think more and i i can't even claim credit for that when i sold that one from carpentry that's measured twice but once and i feel a lot of teams while well-intentioned and we gotta get out there and help people well who are you helping we don't know exactly what it is we don't know the parameters of this work yet so we need to do more research so uh slow down guys it's 52 weekends out of the year we're all running around in the dark let's uh let's try pulling together some of some empirical data and get some theories in the books before we uh you know talk about helping people and that's uh that's kind of what i've been up to so i've been traveling around uh doing a lot of conventions and lectures and talks uh that speak directly to this and i'm at the tail end of my what i call my once-around-the-block once more around the block tour just came back from australia gonna be going to the uk next week and um i'm rounding out this at the end of october so after that we'll be talking for some rest and then we'll see what you're looking at it too that sounds like a whole ton of jet lag one last question we will let you go i promise so out of all the different techniques uh that are used investigate the purnable what techniques drive you insane when you see them and wish they would go away and die in a fiery collision there's a few of them but i think at the top of the list is that damn flashlight trick and the fact that's called a trick at all is you should speak volumes i see people doing it okay make the flash check on thank you okay okay if it's make a question oh thank you very much and it's just a binary response that it's like a card check that you're trying to uh flesh out a story based on on the stimulus of these objects which thermodynamics will say yeah if you leave the flash like they're long enough it's going to turn on and off but what bothers me most about it is the fact that you have to unscrew uh the back of it to make the batteries barely touch now just from a from a mechanic's standpoint if you have to take a machine and alter its operating specs that's like if i went to your car open the gas cap and you know kind of let some of the the the fuel oh wow or if i open your hood and loosen the battery and said hey spirits if you want castle to get home tonight let the car start if not no no that's just ridiculous if the spirit would make the flashlight turn on with it completely screwed together in an operating order all right yeah maybe i would give that some some credence but if you're gonna unscrew it and then just sit there and stare at it if you said nothing it's going to turn on and off and you will make it uh you will make your narrative fit it because you'll keep asking the same question until it turns on it turns on oh thank you it responded and that's ridiculous which is i'm glad you brought that up to know we discussed that a little bit last night you know we use it a little bit we don't use it for serious investigating we use it for public investigations for and it i'll be honest with you and our listeners i hope they're aware of this it gives an instant gratification instant gratification and i get it and i agree and i know because i sometimes you gotta put on a show you gotta get entertaining but they'll take that back out to the world and they'll say wisps does this and that's now representative of your group that you guys are flashlight wait for us brine hey man that's the truth so this is the first i've ever heard of like i'm tearing the back and like having the batteries barely touching i always left mine fully intact i just put the you know i get the mag lights that screw you have to twist the top on and off like a normal flashlight and then you just set it like on the edge of the table to where it's just barely in between like on and off and then let's say the problem with that concept it's the same concept the problem with that is in one of our investigators uh will actually explain to people before he puts a flashlight engineer engineer and i'll explain like you know if you leave that flashlight on too long what what happens is the flashlight when it turns off it starts to cool down and contract and it it can sit there and turn itself on and off just by from heating up and throwing it out yep so it's not something we use often but we do use occasionally i mean that's anything that's an example of science all right that's a theory throw it down to us it's repeatable we could prove this we could demonstrate it looked that flash like just turned on it's not spiritual it's not ghostly it's it's science we think this one we figured out already let's let's move to something that we don't know and all right because we're sitting in the metaphysical expo i see a lot of old school methods uh dows and rods pendulums um we devour it's things like table tipping uh just in australia i had a bunch of groups you did table tipping and it blew my mind like what what the hell is taming to me oh yeah okay that's where we like take our table and throw it's like my job this comes back from the spiritualist movement back in the day with the fox sisters and you had your spiritualist who would conduct its aeons as they would have uh everyone gathered together and they would have a small table like an end table and put your hands on it and the table would rock and depending on the nature of the rock it would indicate responses and i'm like this is this is insane this is insanity but this is a method that was used back in the day and even to this day i guarantee someone in here will know about it um i don't know what to tell you but i feel like some of these methods work like i was using a pendulum just this afternoon and i had somebody say um it's an old school method and being a tech guy and being someone a man of science my brain rages against the concept is i don't understand why it works and i had one of the gentlemen stand behind me i said okay raise your hand and extend a number of fingers but i don't want to know how many and i gave some kind of one i said okay is holding up one finger no don't do fingers no don't do fingers yes i said you hold your fingers it goes yes mckie has that work why how how could this work i can't i can't wrap my brain around it so for me i'm still in the denial face i'm still in the wrestling with it acceptance hasn't come but um it's one of the things where it's there's no logical explanation for it but it happened and there's no denying it happened right well you know and it's interesting that you kind of go into that because and i think i can speak for tim on this one as well there's a lot of things when i first came into the paranormal field where i'm like yeah whatever that's horseshit and as i've kind of gone on i kind of look at things go okay there's something to that i don't know why or what but okay i've seen too many things to be able to completely discount that anymore and so i think anybody who's spent any serious amount of time in the paranormal field has had to evolve their beliefs and their outlook well yeah if you look what i've got sitting on the floor next to me i i used to i think crystals and rocks and gems and all that didn't do anything and i've got a box of rocks sitting on the floor next to me so i don't do anything investigation without them so before literally when i said tim got a rock it's true yeah actually i did have someone give me a free piece of sauna yesterday i got a rock i got some rock i got some rock well we better let you go i know you've got things to do but we appreciate you sitting down with us it's been a pleasure i spent time with you and i'm gonna talk about some of your experiences so thank you for coming on the show if you're in town again and want to do an investigation somewhere else let us know hey i've got a free day tomorrow and i'm here all day with nothing to do so uh we'll talk about that all right hey talk to you later all right guys okay hey we are back and we are with newman that you taught medium not to be confused with our own caden utai county medium although newman is based out of utai county yeah he's uh he's an american fork american fork and everybody missed it because i wish i was starting recording for like five minutes ago because newman was getting stoned heavily the energy stone i've got magic rocks tim has got a box of rocks and uh newman's a medium and tim has one rock and even i can feel the energy coming off this thing uh nobody said i worked in newman and i thought i was gonna roll up in the back of his head and thought i was gonna piece of ass for his name for half hour awesome energy it is the most powerful i felt in that stone type is that one and you're you're dead on i'm picking stones i told you there's something about these it's weird because like i've been telling people on the team this is all still new to me um but i can see not i can't see the energy but i can the stones just stand out to me and kind of like an appealing way it's not like they're they glow or glimmer or shine or you know anything it's just there's just something about stones that um like they'll draw my attention and that's just kind of how i know which stones i need to buy something me cursed objects and i walk into a room and i'm like you see i'm exactly it's the same thing it's just i pick up good things and you pick up bad things that's only good to me a fellow stoner so that's the only second gift i have is i can pick up a cursed object like a freaking divining rock i even tested this with brandy where i picked out the stone that drew my attention in and another random stone i'd have her hold the random stone and she's kind of like me go okay and i go here try this one i hand her this stone that kind of drew my attention in and she's like yeah that's a good one that's it they're tied and it's even with objects they can still be cleared that's why i'm not fun to take to a uh investigation because i'm not gonna sit there and keep communicating i'm gonna cross it over you know it's funny as saying because i think we're gonna recruit him i think we're gonna do right now he's now a member of wisps no i just say that's bill wispy he's got wristbands you know he he says that is rubbing his nipples no actually it's interesting to say that because we are a paranormal investigative team uh wisps is the show is just coming off you to that but our residential investigations are actually very much what you just said uh we don't actually go in and do a whole lot of who's here with us we try and figure out who's there as quickly as we can and get it cleared where we don't i almost feel like we disappoint people sometimes because we'll come in and we'll just clean house and we're on our way we don't like to screw around especially with the negative well the more you investigate the more energy you're giving that to be even more powerful because they want that negative they want you to the human mind is this horrible for that part because it wants to just go and investigate it i'm guilty of it 90 percent of the time and i have to clear myself because i drew it to me i was like oh i gotta know all about that that's like awesome but it's not let's just get rid of it move on find the next object you know essentially because early on when we first started one of our investigations we went in and there's a couple negative uh in humanities and the property and one of our investigators and Kim and i were involved in this we're also equally guilty but we were kind of provokie and we just kept poke poke poke prod prod prod and we went for probably about an hour an hour and a half and then when it's time we were like us to get rid of stuff and cleanse it out we had a hard time doing it we kind of fed into it and i figured out real quick that we had uh we figured out we'd been feeding this thing so to speak and so from then on we uh moved away from yeah you want to get in prodding and just get a good idea and especially the portals that they work out of they're open because of negative energy and negative stuff that we conjure up that we don't know and they live off of that and what i find is um anything around a lot of electrical you're going to find a lot of portals open up that people aren't normally seen and those portals are allowing things in well we can close those and seal them so they don't open again of course they'll buy feet from there they'll open another one that's okay we'll close it and be done and i'm finding this a lot in houses where even like a teenager's riding on a mirror whether it's positive but most of them are negative you know bad song lyrics things like that that opens a portal and they're actually sucked in and they fill that and they thrive off of it because as a teenager we're all full of inks you know and so i want to get that rebel yell out things like that and i just aged myself right there yes i was in the 80s yeah i was an 80s kid so i was alive in the 80s never eight eight of those 80s you know get my cane right so tell something about you new man how did you get into this how do you figure out you had gifts um i've been open for a long time it first started with an ex-wife thank gosh they're ex you know but uh we had a haunted house and we had a kid that was in there and i'd see it every so often on the corner my eyes didn't think anything about it but as soon as the second ex-wife got in there i bought a new bed and the bed post had a had a round ball on a wooden ball i literally glued that on the next morning loose this can be okay i'm putting a nail in it put a nail through that ball didn't move woke up the next day now was laying on the floor ball was loose again it's going on so as uh things progressed i got rid of the ex that's thank you you're not clean and uh she actually was the one drawing this to it so as she left i glued that again it's been solid ever since i just had weird things like that show up and so then we had some psychic friends come over for dinner one night it was about two years ago and uh they said you are so open you have no idea what you have do you and i was like now i just kind of whip through life i've been doing a lot of stuff but people are only you're so open you're actually checking your fly yeah what do you think see that what that's funny because you know i had some conversation yesterday because i was some talking to you said the same thing to me it's like you have no idea how open you are yes and most people don't and they feel things like my indicator that something was special on me but i couldn't figure out what is that people would do when i call him emotional puking where they would come into my shop but here's all my problems dude i'm not a therapist you might want to see a doctor about that problem has nothing to do with me and i probably shouldn't have heard that it was just like two days ago a guy walked in had a porn problem i'm a computer repair guy as well he goes in starts telling me like i'm like whoa whoa you know you just said that to me i'm just wondering i ended up clearing him of all of the attachments and the self-worth that brought that to him and so the last three days i've been sitting here trying to think of a stone that would help with that addiction yeah you got amethyst for addictions and that but it wasn't filling right with spirit then i pulled this card out and there was ronody it is actually the stone to help with addictions and all that it's specifically built for that power can we get some of that for castle maybe he'll kick that diapepopoeidictions go yeah that's a hard one that's so delightful especially when you're used to car wheel you know you want to have that out ouch i'm not getting my sponsorship from diapepepoeid that's okay but uh you know that that all ties into where i just started filling this and people would tell me things and then they'd leave and go that's incredible i just feel great hey can i come i'm dude i'm not a therapist and i'm not charging you because i want you to just go that's not right get the hell out of my store just get out because you're really messed up and so once these psychics opened me up and showed me my previous lives and things like that it was like okay well i've been on a bullet train for the last two years and they up there giving me more and more abilities to where i have remote view i can sense things that are coming from people outside because you asked me yesterday you said this is amazing that you can read somebody through me it's because you carry their energy as you talk to them you're actually holding some of that energy and i can read off of that around them well that makes sense because i know i've talked to randy before and she's been able to do the same thing yes there's an interview that we recorded one of our promoting this expo and we didn't actually air that interview for a certain reason but she was actually able to she's never heard the interview and i didn't give her much information but she was able to read my energy and tell me exactly what happened and what that person did yep and that's where we all have different abilities we all come out of the gate going okay what are we going to do with this ability well mine i clear people especially online in that because in a lot of countries even here there's a lot of fakes out there there's a lot of people saying certain keywords to get you to open up then they take your money and that you're clean you're good well you know it's interesting say that because i'm always really skeptical of medias until i get to know him and yeah i can tell you just from like five minutes of talking to him he's legit i can't just personality loan i can tell he's legit but i always i joke with him about this but i always love when you have an investigator who goes on five or six investigations and we're like i'm a medium and you're like well yesterday yeah well i want to be scarce farly but that ain't happening i got the voice you got but yeah you're almost there i just don't have the contract we could really change your name it was being a man another river yeah but you know the thing is like with you guys in what you're doing you get a lot of attachments i mean i cleared you up multiple yesterday yes yes you did and they were hidden behind a lot of stuff and even as mediums we we think we got it all but there's a lot of stuff that hides and as a medium you have to look all around the indigible 360 degrees so now you've got me curious except for you but i don't i don't look at that well i don't look at that as we start so i don't know he's not a chiropractor i mean uh proctologist yes not even close so now do i have any attachments going on here you actually do i wasn't going to clear him till you were ready you actually have two from a previous investigation that man it's a woman oh well it's an entity that's trying to portray a woman but it's not actually from here it came through a portal in the place that was closed by somebody that was with you it's sealed steel but that entity has been playing with your emotions lately have you been getting um i just keep getting self-worth you're pretty high but it's dipped down to where maybe that wasn't the right thing i did or something like that is what i'm getting this entity is trying to play on you because you've got high self-esteem and they're trying to break it down and i just literally i cleared that attachment link but also what you have is what i call carmelinks there's a lot i'll say yes there might be a lot of that in the carmelinks but there may be a special is what you guys do you should be clearing yourself of those carmelinks after every investigation just get rid of them all because they like you'll be sitting there in a meeting or something maybe with him and you know that really pissed me off the other day what you did you don't say it to him but in your mind you're getting a little irate at him for something he did it's a carmelink that's between you two that is festering up and they want that negative energy because then it can draw the entities in that forward so we clear those which i'm clear you completely so now it's so much energy going through me to clear it and then i feel your energy flow as they're coming off of there it's it's amazing i mean like yesterday you were getting goosebumps half through the whole time talking to me yeah i literally did not want to go to work you were i was just like i just want to yeah you're cleared now of all those but what it's going to do is like with a lot of people when i clear that stuff it creates like a detox type position and you want to drink lots of water so you don't get dehydrated or sick from that detox but detoxing the soul is amazing that's like all it hides our water from us come on get it over here he needs it she knows there's a lot of backwash involved wanna that's true yeah thank you a lot of flow he's after i was in the water well there's no lister so that's a no problem so now you mentioned that there's one i drink it but these carma cleansing that we need to bring pulled beer that was a bracelet to himself i don't either know it itself don't touch the bracelets so i went from the bag it's just i'm just not only praying those are beard hairs what i found what i found interesting when you said that i had a lot of hidden attachments is that's actually exactly what if you guys remember from our show back in march with when we had a mandon she didn't say then i did bring her to my home for a separate session for cleansing and that's exactly what she had a hard time kind of clearing that and it took her and peaches to kind of clear that stuff up because they were they were hiding they were down in there and they don't want to be found and i can give you a shot of what we see well what i see is i can see a fine outline on you that suddenly moves that's how i know they're hiding because they're also an invisible energy that hides and once i see that it's gone it's crossed over cleared whatever it's got to do a lot of times i can't clear them i have to send them back to the original which definitely helps because now they can deal with it not you yeah that's the key and in clearing the path or the attachments that's where you're clearing on both ends a lot of times people don't clear it on both ends they just cleared on the one it'll snap back is all it takes to the thought or belief that that's still there you're added so let me ask you you mentioned that we should be clearing our karma after every energy um obviously you can look at us and do your thing how would we do that for ourselves so as yourself uh you're going to get into a meditative state then basically you're going to say i invite my highest self forward through this consciousness now that's going to get your highest self here don't say higher because you want to be at the top you have multiple higher selves but you want to be at the highest because that's going to give you the most benefit that's your connection to god and then you're going to say i open the gates to the kingdom of heaven within what that's doing now is that's taking your highest self to your connection with god and now you're ready you're in the mode you're you're one and you're able to clear all of that that you want so the first thing i start with is and we've had a lot of the show today is i clear all thoughts and beliefs that do not serve me in a positive way because you're going to get negative beliefs from these investigations i i get them as well whenever i help out somebody at their house i'm always the first to get attacked it's just i'm used to it that's why i'm that's how i'm sexiest so i was gonna say i was like caden and ready yeah it's any fear at all it's gonna be my job is to unattack people exactly and any fear at all is gonna bring it to you i had to get rid of all my fear i had tons of idex wise i mean what better fear than that you know no but what i did what i do is also i say i want to clear and release all fear it's gone then you're going to say i clear and release all carmelinks that might affect me that way you're getting rid of all of those attachments that are on you that you don't need it's kind of like spider-man shooting a web out with a tracker then i'm sitting at my house never so often i'm gonna pull on that argument about diapepeppsy all sudden he's getting mad then i pull another one hey i said to girl from his cube oh he's getting mad it's just a way of negative entities and beings to come in and control it what you think and what you're doing the next thing is you literally get rid of all of your forgiveness you've got to forgive others as well as yourself and until you can forgive yourself for being hurt because it's not your fault we're all human we're all here to experience divinity and negative and so once we get rid of all that then you're opened up even more but now you can say i give myself all the unconditional love and support i need but a lot of times people say it this time so you're limiting how long you want to get all that unconditional love and support yeah i just want it right now exactly tomorrow not so much just just right now you know it's interesting they say that whole it's hard for people to forgive themselves i think it for a lot of people it's significantly easier to forgive others yes to themselves and that's where this comes in is because you have to in order to get completely whole in one and zen you have to forgive yourself because all you're doing is hurting yourself you're lowering yourself esteem you're building heartwalls which is horrible to do because it doesn't allow others to come in and give you the love and use show the love that you need to and so it's all about getting oneness and loving all so so aside from cleansing what other gifts do you have or what other things do you do i do remote view so i can it's crazy it like sets the house out in a long path kind of like the lucille ball stage i think of where it was all one but you thought it was multi-rooms it lays it out and i can see portals things like that like when i close my eyes i don't see black i see grayish to white depending upon how connected i am it's bright light versus dull um then i have some i have medium psychic energy healing and i've got so many new ones lately i can see pathways of decisions which you take whether it's going to be negative or positive i'm trying to think of all the ones lately uh the new one i'm getting is some previous lives which is very rare it has to be on your guides to allow me to see that so if they allow me to view it i've had guys that had knee problems and it was all stuff he was conjuring there was nothing really wrong he just had real bad soreness it was tied to him being in a is at the u.s american or u.s. mexican war he was a soldier and the bullet that he shot out that killed the guy the family actually cursed that bullet that went from the gun to the guy and he carried it into this lifetime so it's just so i i have to admit i'm a little skeptical on past lives um i was too but i i'm curious to see if you see any type of past life for me because i have to have your guardians get to me you know you're a commander high ranking commander i'm seeing the um a battlefield oh my gosh you were actually in the giddiesburg that battlefield you were killed there because you were higher you were higher it was like captain or lieutenant like you were managing multiple uh regiments interesting let's uh do you follow the similar war or something do you investigate that because no gaddiesburg is a spot that i do want to investigate at some point was it was a union soldier a confederate soldier erd yourself confederate but that's okay it's an able battle flag right so you're okay but i find that interesting because i've actually there's one thing that i got a pretty sublessing from my father a long time ago because i was having some sort of problem when i became a motorless but i remember him saying that i am an afterborn leader and that i've seen that throughout my life just like everything i've been i mean take a wiz for example i joined the team as just an investigator and i'm one of the main hosts and i i helped pretty much do a lot of the behind the scenes stuff that you guys don't necessarily see uh and for you to tell me that i was like a lieutenant in the kiddiesburg war i mean again it just kind of follows it with the whole leadership thing and there's been others but not here that you you and you're you really are you're like bossy you're like leader bossy you know i can he's probably agreeing with that but yes well i have the stuff we do that's a my nervous love half the stuff we do probably wouldn't get done if i didn't give you probably right what that may happen you need to leave so i'm gonna put you on the spot here to live in the other room to throw reading at me let's see what you got i know you talked to m yesterday i'd have you do Tim so you don't know me very well other than or we could have him do alexu it was just sitting here not saying a word or that oh man i am pulling stuff on her but i want to focus on you because clearing those those those carmel aks in the attachments i'm seeing more like your your your aura is blue purple white and red you've got the red from the crown chakra but your uh your throat chakras had issues and your roots so you're actually um i'm getting that you're tied to the ley lines that's not good because uh do you ever get um weird feelings in your legs like uh tingling or i can't even imagine what what it would be it's mostly at night like restless leg type stuff uh not restless leg but every now that kind of a aching yes well you're so things are reaching up is what i'm seeing and they're grabbing your legs and like during investigations they get really tense with trying to screw with you and and taking control of your energy i'm just gonna clear that because we've got to close that that ley lines it's not good to be tied to them a lot of crap that can flow on those that we don't know about and i don't like to investigate it i just like to clear it so you're throwing yeah so your throat's tied to you guys sitting there agitating spirits they attack this first yeah you oh man and they love doing it too okay so it's it's actually completely open now you're i was shocked because i thought your crown would be blocked more than anything else because of these investigations but it's wide open um well it's because he doesn't have me here that's true yeah he's not pretty cool i got a lot of distraction you're also uh man um trying to see what that image is they're giving me so not letting them they're not gonna let me get a previous life on you they're saying no we're good on that your guardians are really protective of you they're not so happy about the investigations it's a lot of work for them is what they're giving me and but you actually have a woman figure there it's a relative it's a great grandma on your father's side and she's bossy she's telling me you make sure clear that make sure it's blessed so i'm gonna also send God's love and light through your chakra this point because it needs to be healed you also have some heart walls she just pointed them out it's cracks me up she's like old school like just go to right there right there just do that so so i got really heart walls you had 230 it's a couple yeah it's from relationships being hurt and yeah you're getting the i wasn't gonna see alica's response here she just busted up laughing she's not your wingman i take it so take blessed it be more alert to women that are taking advantage of them that's your key is a wingman uh you yeah you've got the forgiveness as well in yourself i'm getting heavy let it go i'm not gonna sing frozen because it's horrible when i do it's my voice but you got to let it go and just clear it off and use those two phrases you go back replay it but those two phrases if you do that to connect you can get rid of all that stuff plus you have a lot of thoughts and a lot of thoughts and beliefs that are limiting you and what you could do you can actually be more commanding than him so bam look at that you got the signal from the gen i made i made a mistake i made i saw it as a ring finger how did it say it is yeah okay he puts a ring on it it's close enough but if you do those phrases and ask for all that to be cleared you're golden but you also have to change your beliefs and not draw that to you and i know based on investigations in that if you don't provoke they're just clear you're gonna be golden so see i've been a firm believer there's a couple different types of leaders and i've always been more of the kind of behind the scenes leader like i can lead people and i'll do it if i actually have to but when it comes to him it's just kind of like people are naturally drawn to him they want him to lead with me it's more it's i have to get to the point where i'm just frustrated with the situation where i go you know what i'm just taking over but this is happening but they know his you have a very strong presence coming out of you that spirits love they want to screw with that they want to use it they want to take that energy and anytime they can get you in a negative state that's where they get the most power so you stay in positive is going to help but i because now that i cleared all that stuff i see or are so clearly it's just because yours was purple but his is more red your true color not what you're at at the moment at the moment you can be any color of that that you want but your true colors red your true colors purple where we already went over i didn't even know and you yeah he told me so i don't usually admit this but he told me my true colors purple i go you know it's funny because ever since i was a little kid my favorite color has been purple you're just green and that'd be alica oh crap your cup is dude who doesn't have microphone now what's this we're doing all this and i hope you don't mind just putting on the spot here huh what's going on with her what's going on with her this sounds i like the the little arm you know hey it's funny because every time we have him do something he just looks at us and i some ways some sort of drugs and alcohol silent so today with us we have silent alica um you have that new mind in here yes sir it's somewhere hold it's under here can you hold this feel free to go through any of that just close it close your eyes kind of just get into a moment of you know zen don't think of me because that's just too much zen so at this point for the listeners you're filming his nipples yeah never had i thought it was how his nipples that was my hand lots of carmelinks on her but not as many of you is okay to clear you really perfect are you sure they bring that much water so the reason i had her hold new mite is because she has six attachments going to people in previous lives that have bled into this one so i'm gonna clear those not gonna clear them at the destination i'm not sure what that guy is but do you have like a really nasty ex-boyfriend like like cuckoo for those who can't see her bright eyes and smile and then the the not yes that's okay well what's interesting i'm gonna jump in here real quick but right probably about ten minutes before you guys came over from the other side of the venue alla can i had a long conversation about a crazy ex-boyfriend of hers um so that but you know it makes us even more interesting that new mite that she's holding i literally bought from him and then we walk over here and sat down yeah and that's the thing you know it's funny because i have to carry stones because i don't know who needs it but spirit told me pick up two of that for today i end up handing them out like m&ms not the green ones that'd be the wrong message saying so uh but if you want to bring them in them yeah i'll do the sound effects don't hold it in either because i have nothing to do with you you're getting that same and you also have fear you have some fear in you i can clear it um so take two deep breaths close your eyes and just breathe in real deep and let it go once more so i cleared it on my side you have to clear it on yours and you've got to learn how to give that forgive for being hurt because that's gonna feed in everything in the universe loves fear because it keeps you held back and yours you predominantly put it forward along with your heart walls and that dude i want to get a hold of them it's just like there's a lot of heart walls there tied to that i'm gonna clear those as well because you don't deserve to have that blockage in your life so wow that one was and see now what i've done is i've just seen two more new attachments underneath those heart walls because everything we do is in layers that's why one setting might not be enough for some people because you unfold layers so we're like ogres kind of or onions cuz i would go with onions well if you don't want to track they have layers well just so you don't have a red beard you know it's not i pull wax out to and light it like a candle but it doesn't matter so i do you i guess i'd track and i love it so it's a dd ties me in together that's what makes this so interesting so my smear allows me i'm gonna get multiple clearings i want some so also with you um hey your chakras way out of action it's okay if i wind your chakra okay so your chakra was like going in triangles like opposite ends coming back in now also it kind of it was unburded backwards christmas tree so you're now aligned but also we have a secondary chakra that goes down back and that's very important to align because she's also misplaced there okay so i cleared that so now i'm allowing love light to flow through from god basically and now you're going through sunda root because our chakras when you look at her our chakras are not just a single point they go on to affinity out from us that's how you can pass somebody kind of like me and say ah i know them from somewhere not the radius or but i feel like i know them and you don't know and you just go on with your day that was your chakras passing that you're able to fill the energy and know something it's funny to say that because there's a booth about five booths that way never met the lady before but so she walked in yesterday both her and i had that where do i know you from exactly we even talked to each other about trying to figure it out and it's just like for me it kept i kept getting the feeling that it was and i again i i struggled with this because i don't believe in it but to me everything was shot in past life and you know it's it's a hard concept to take especially with religion everything else i mean even with me being religious it's only fortified me and what i believe because now i know both sides i've been asking it since i was a kid what about this what about that nobody really tell me now i know no just out of curiosity can i ask you what your religious i know yes i know about that so i'm i i just curious to see yep and it it fortifies what you're doing and and god's there and he's always listening so let me ask you this because i know we have a lot of listeners really as sometimes they like when we when i delve into this a little bit how do you reconcile that belief system with the past lives uh because it's funny because one the other day i was i was ready to crossroads again i had some money i was like man just go get this order for the next show things like that because we're selling crystals in that and we clear them and cleanse them spare came to me and said you gotta pay your time and i i was totally not going to do it because i needed that order but it was like dude you have a record you gotta pay that it's the lord's share i did now it's all good and i was able to place the order because other money came in and i wasn't expecting i mean dude that owed me money for eight months walked into my shop and paid with credit card i'm like what the heck i thought you were dead i thought you were long i was checking the other side to see if you were gone but i never got anything so it's pretty funny there's it's but it's it's awesome it leads you into knowing gods there knowing the words that you've heard are true and then i can also verify and clear people to allow them to see that connection you know i'm actually kind of excited to hear your religious background not just because i'm LDS but i think a lot of people have a very hard time reconciling what you do as far as the leadership goes with the religion side and i don't in my opinion they're not incompatible i think they're very compatible there integrated like i mean it's just like brother and sister you're just you know you're related you know you're tight in and there's that soul feeling that you guys will always be close and that's what comes in with the religion is that nobody can change my mind i i know based on what i've seen what i felt and what spirit has confirmed to me that i am doing exactly what i'm supposed to do and it was even in my patriarchal blessing as i was done i said i would be giving gifts and ability of other men i thought it was my ad and i cleaned 13 computers at once i'm set and real quick for our listeners who are out of utah has a very strong religious community for those who are not LDS what a patriarchal blessing is it's basically a road map it's a road map it's kind of a personal prophecy that members of that faith are given usually in their own pageings um but i'm not gonna get too deep into that um do you have any other questions or anything else you want to tell me to do you Tim? i find it kind of interesting that it's kind of after talking to him yesterday it's kind of helping me out a little bit with what i'm going through where um i'm transitioning i'm transitioning into i'm becoming a werewolf if you notice the beard um now i'm starting to kind of get try to go back to church and study the scriptures more and whatnot and one of my fears has been like knowing that i have these abilities that i can do and not like it's one of the fears is kind of like that people in the church that i know wouldn't necessarily accept the fact that i can do this for what i do and meeting someone that has the gifts that you do and then you being in the same religion kind of puts my mind at ease a little bit like it's like i don't have to worry as much yeah and the you know i get you're gonna be fine you're actually going to get there and everything is what like i was telling you yesterday you're you're gonna get there what it is is that you don't actively go out and tell everybody i'm clear you and you're sitting in elders quorum yeah okay you're you're now wanting confrontation i don't want confrontation i just i want to be able to clear people and get them back yeah i try to i don't like go around broadcasting like when i first started going to church i told my bishop and my elder scorn president that's the one like one other person but that's telling the war yeah pretty much no it's it's actually the nice part is is you know even with telling them that they're they're still gonna nowadays i think they realize because with Joseph Smith and everything he did he even told i can't tell you everything i've seen you know in paraphrasing you lock me up throw away the key there's so much that we still don't know it's still to come well and not to doubt too much into religious thing but oh i've got a very good friend who's a historian and scholar with the obvious faith and uh him and i have had very in-depth conversations about these very topics and he said you know the amount that we know is probably uh a one one millionth of a percent and he goes to stuff that he taught at church is the important stuff to get back he goes there's so much stuff that we have no idea and the reason we don't is because it really and the grand scheme of things for getting back doesn't matter exactly and so there really is a lot to this world and you know what you do and things that we don't understand but we can see kind of evidence of that uh yeah it's not talked about the scriptures and they're not preaching about it at the pulpit that it doesn't mean it doesn't exist doesn't mean it's not real and as you take it and look it doesn't matter the religion we're brought here we're here to experience use our free agency and get back and that's the key and it's along the way the trials everything else you create your reality that you want that so what you bring in is what you're going to receive if you want crazy cookie nut guy not like me and you bring them in you're going to experience that you're going to go okay whoo thank you for the three years of experience i want to get something positive now and so you bring that positive in a different guy that actually likes women that respects them that thinks of you that we'll talk about you that you know wants to talk to you not sit there on a phone things like that now you bring that in that's what you're going to experience you want everything positive not negative i it took me 238 million bricks to the head to find and figure that out why do i keep getting attracted to these psychotic women i mean two marriages i'm i'm a magnet but then i found my wife no anger issues and she was a medium and she kind of knew she had the abilities i was actually handpicked by her husband who died our first date he was sitting here playing with my hair in my beard because he used to have one he loved his beard he would sit there and play with it well i look like a complete idiot like i had some kind of problem i kept doing this and we're sitting at a really nice restaurant carvers and this is going on and i go and i didn't know i was open i just said i think you're your husband's here he gives playing with my neck and everything sure enough she figures it out she runs to the bathroom i'm freaking dates over i got screwed up back to the harmony i guess i'll just head out and find another day maybe jannison's but she came back she goes it was my husband and i haven't told you but i'm open and i'm a medium that's our life just went crazy from there so it's been eight years of awesomeness nice well i appreciate coming to the show talking to us uh love it what's that i don't think anything i thought of her somebody say something she knows that crazy drama in the park crazy drama she's trying to get some political and you know what to be honest with you i'd love to get jannison against if you're open to that yeah i'd love it so we can have our studio and we'll do a full life and even bring my wife on she's even more powerful that would be awesome we would love to she's awesome and so real quick if now do like paid readings and things we do it's utamadium.com we're also on facebook is utamadium it's basically we're going with the same format we have here 10 minutes we're a session per 10 minutes 10 bucks if it goes over an hour we're just 60 bucks that's it we don't nice and if you don't want to read your picture exactly and if you know if the spirits in your computer i'll clean that out and and it's kind of funny you see that because literally a lot of the computer repair i've done it's gotten multiple shops to get done and i was able to just fix it i don't know how i'd you know you can only retain so much you know that computer i've had sitting around for last six months do nothing yeah it's going to hit shop it's going to hit shop it's going to hit like yeah there's like 10 000 poor news we got we got to clear that we got to clear that we got to clear that we want to put looking at naked be this that's going to be ericia so we can clear that too that's a lot in belief so utamadium.com and we thank you new one for coming on the show too you're listening to the Wisps was at your investigative studies for paranormal science their grown ass adults they like to sit in the dark and talk to each other but they all love their moms so that should account for something