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Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway.
Scott, we're back for the second time this week, and you didn't play a ridiculous song. I'm so happy and relieved, frankly. That's right. That's right.
And so you were just talking about, because I think people want to know the real Kara Swisher. Your son was in Japan. And what is he asking you to do? Oh, wait, is this what we're not doing?
We're not parenting. Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry. I'm not parenting.
I shared it with you, but now you're bringing it up. He's just, let me tell you, all I'm going to say is any girl that gets my son as a boyfriend is the luckiest girl in the world. Until she meets his mother. Oh, my God.
Yeah, that's gonna be easy. That's gonna be easy. I'm sure. I'm sure you'll be really easy on this.
Oh, my God. Talk about the Thunderdome. My son and someone else enter one leave, and it's called my son. Oh, my God.
That's gonna be ugly. It's gonna be ugly. That's why, you know what? Then he'll get a hardy girl.
That's right. She can keep up. That's exactly right. Listen, Scott, there's a movie being made about WeWork, and no one has called us.
Have you gotten a phone call about that yet? Well, it's clear that my agent is fielding multiple offers and just doesn't wanna get me excited. I am so a walk for Rebecca Newman. First off, I'm an asshole.
And my sense is she's like a world-class asshole. So I was born to play that role. You don't have to add him with a wig. I have great legs.
I'm totally drawn towards this hippie, poochie kind of wardrobe. I have, I mean, look at me in a wig. Boom, over. I'm the guy.
I'm literally, I'm the guy from Queen. I'm the guy that played Ray Charles. I was born to play Rebecca Newman. Wow.
Okay. I did not see that one coming. All right. Okay.
Rebecca Newman. I think we should have a cameo. We sort of run around the buildings and yell up at the buildings at them every now and then they cut to us. What do you think?
I'm gonna write them. I'm gonna start a campaign. That's what I'm gonna do. Like my FedEx campaign last week.
I'm gonna start a campaign. Why aren't Scott and Kara in the WeWork movie? All right. I'm gonna do it.
I need you to retweet everything I do. But speaking of which, speaking of movies, the ongoing movie that is Google has taken a turn this week with the Larry and Sergey, the twins, the boys, are leaving Alphabet, their titles at Alphabet, the parent company of Google. Google's current CEO, Sundar Pichai, saying we think there's a better way to run the company. They acted like they were proud parents and now they're giving everything up.
But the fact of the matter is they still have dual stock and they control the company absolutely and completely. So what do you think this means? Everyone's sort of harrowing like a end of an era. They haven't been there forever.
I wrote a column about this today. They just haven't been there at the company very much and have not had as much effect. But what do you think about this change, if at all? I think it's another example of the perversion of our economy at the hands of this gross idolatry of innovators.
And that is, it's literally as if someone from the PR department found a press release that was two years old. These guys haven't been CEOs for 24 months. What the hell has Larry Page done in the last 24 months? Where is his finger?
He's taking a hovercraft. There's a hovercraft going on. Okay. If a woman was out to lunch for what is arguably the most influential company in the world for the last 24 months, it'd be all sorts of screwed with you.
But not young white male innovators. Oh, there, there, Larry and Sergey, right? The fact, if they didn't have controlling shares, some activists would show up and say, here's an idea. Do your fucking job.
Like show up. There's a lot going on here. And instead they're like, because there's a big, big difference. And the reality is CEO has now become kind of this fungible title.
Hey, I got a nose ring. I think I'll be CEO twice. Hey, I have controlling shares. I think I'll be a CEO of Facebook despite the fact that I am causing incredible damage to the world because I have super voting shares.
So here's the bottom line. When you have authority, when you have control, also with that comes responsibility. And Senator Warren summarized it perfectly. Whether or not they're giving up the CEO moniker, if Google ends up, if Google continues to create the type of damage it's creating and we continue to see governments decide we are sick of this bullshit and start to actually come after these companies and hold their feet to the fire and hold some, hold them liable.
And guess what, Sergey and Larry, regardless of whether or not you're giving a key to the executive watching to someone else, you are responsible for what happens at this company because you are in control. And until you see that control, be clear, this is all on you guys. That's so fucking indicative. I'm absolutely a walk for Rebecca.
The hovercraft. I'll read it actually exactly. Congrats on the move, Larry Page. Quick reminder.
We still do expect you to testify before Congress and changing your title while staying on the board and retaining effective control, but will not exempt you from accountability. Elizabeth Warren is a badass. She's very good. I was like, that is the perfect tweet.
You know, he hasn't been involved and there's been a lot going on internally, including employee unrest. There was a whole spate of sexual harassment issues that were never addressed at that company internally under his leadership. You know, I knew him very well for a long time. I covered them from the very early days and he definitely has gone into sort of hermit mode.
It's been the most unusual thing. He was always an odd in that way. Just very quiet, but he exercised a lot of control and was quite, he's a tough guy internally. He's very, he's very tough on his employees.
But what was interesting is the removal of himself and everyone being okay with it. It really is kind of, I don't even understand it as they're as they're going through all these very difficult issues. It's Sundar, who I do like, I have also known for a very long time, do think he's more in the Satya Nadella school of, you know, I'm going to clean this place up kind of stuff. Very likable.
He's very likable and he's, he's a, it'll be interesting to see, but he doesn't still have full power. You know what I mean? He just doesn't have full power. That's exactly the correct point.
There's a difference. Someone who's been the founder and largest shareholder and has been the CEO working for other people. CEO is an illusory, a sugar high. The bottom line is it's who controls the company.
Right. Because if you don't, if you're not a CEO founder and you don't have the majority of the shares, you are temporarily in that CEO role. And it's great. You get to give the opening speech at the holiday dinner, but at the end of the day, the person that makes the decision is the one with the most shares and the one with the controlling shares.
Yep. That's true. But the thing is, I think they're going to use it as cover to get rid of some of these other things. I said they had the search business, YouTube, and some very, you know, less impressive stuff that's going on there.
So there's a lot of stuff like X fiber verily, sidewalk labs, Calico, all kinds of stuff. Matt and president, because I want to be president of the United States. And that's my world I'm living in right now. And I saw six ads during that for Steyer and Bloomberg.
I was sort of like, what? Like there were at least three for Steyer and two for Bloomberg. It was like, it was a lot. And I was sort of like, they were good ads, by the way, but beautifully done.
Except for Tom Steyer's weird belt that I kept fixating on. But, but it was, it was really fast. I was like, wow, this is a lot. That was interesting.
Well, Tommy had its organizers. They're going to feed on the street. They're gonna have, they're gonna have hundreds, if not thousands of people, you know, signing people up. If, if money, if we end up with two billionaires as like two of like the four or five last men or women standing, it's going to be, again, it's going to be another example of we have shifted towards this total hunger games.
Well, speaking of Kamala Harris, I see madam vice president all over her. She's a hundred percent clear, a clear her, Stacey Abrams. There's several, there's several really interesting choices, you know He was like, rich is rich. He was like, one of the richest people.
I happen to like this person. But query me this. What do you think of this idea? And then I know you want to move on.
Yes. What if tomorrow, or on slow news day, Biden announced something and got on stage and basically hand in hand with Senator Kamala Harris and announced her as her VP? Do you think people would come over? I don't know.
That's a good one. That's a good one. That's a good one. That's a good one.
You know, those conversations are, so many people are saying, calling her and saying, hey, hey, would you like to be my VP? She is right now. She's an excellent VP, but, you know, because that's the sort of attack dog kind of member of the Bob Dole kind of character. She'd be excellent.
Not my record. And Uncle Joe will be, well, they do have the crime record that's not great. So that's one of the together there. No, no, I was talking about Bob Dole.
His whole, not my record. I was super charmless as a candidate, as I recall. Anyway, moving on. American hero.
American hero. He's a war hero, he is. Listen, he still was a charmless candidate. Anyway, we are going to take a quick break now, and then we're going to get back and we have a friend of Pivot from France.
We're calling in from France. We'll be back after this. I'm Asad Hernadin, and this is America Actually. We're all talking to each other to see what did we do wrong?
What did we not see? I'm in Washington, D.C. this week to interview Ruben Gallego. He's a Democratic senator from Arizona, and he's been thinking openly about running for higher office.
But he's recently run into some hot water because of his connection to Congressman Eric Swalwell. I have to learn from this, and I will learn from this. But, you know, for me, it's not a 2028 question. It's about what it means to be a better first boss in my office and also a better senator to my constituents.
This week on America Actually, we ask Gallego about predatory behavior in Washington, his plans for immigration reform, and more. This week on Net Worth & Chill, I'm breaking down the institution everyone's talking about right now, but nobody actually understands the Federal Reserve. With all the drama happening between Trump and Fed Chair Jerome Powell, you're probably seeing headlines and wondering what any of this has to do with your money. Spoiler alert, it's everything.
I'll explain what the Fed actually is, why it exists, and how this one institution controls the interest rates on your mortgage, credit cards, student loans, and more. We're diving into why raising or cutting rates isn't just boring policy talk. It's the difference between affording a house or watching prices spiral out of control. Plus, I'm breaking down the current controversy over firing Fed board members and why both Republicans and Democrats are freaking out about it, because this fight isn't just political theater, it could mean real chaos for your wallet.
Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on youtube.com slash youarewitu. Welcome back to Pivot. Now let's hear it from a friend from across the Atlantic Ocean. So NATO leadership met in London this week and prior to the meeting, the French president, Emanuel Macron, announced he would be taxing U.S.
tech companies. This is something that's been going on for a while. France approved a 3% digital services tax aimed at making major U.S.-based tech companies like Google, Apple, Facebook, and Amazon contribute to the economies of the world where they exist, make profits, and have offices. And our producer, Rebecca Sananis, reached out to French lawyer Dan Scheffet, who specializes in human rights and tech.
He was one of the lawyers that brought lawsuits against Google in France last year. They talked via Skype from his home in Paris about what this tax means for Europeans. Let's go to the tape. So it started at the European level with this two-phase approach, the 3%, and then afterwards the digital presence tax.
So absolutely, it will be a European proposed line that Boris Johnson is all for it, Brexit. The only countries right now that seem to have a problem with it, and I don't know whether it's still a problem, were the Scandinavian countries and Germany. Now, Germany had a problem. I say had a problem because I don't know whether it's still the case with the new German president of the European Commission.
But the problem used to be that Germany was afraid of retaliation from the Trump administration on the exports of German motorcars, of the automobile industry in Germany. So they were afraid of retaliation. So you may say that out of the 28 countries, maybe Germany and maybe two more countries were reluctant to impose this tax. But I think that now we are all on the same, we all have the same interest.
Okay, so you're saying that Boris Johnson is going to jump on the campaign wagon. Trump troller-in-chief Justin Trudeau has talked about it in Canada. And of course, Trump is threatening for the French to tax cheese and champagne exports in France, 100% tariffs. You know, the tech companies are going crazy because they don't want to pay taxes.
They never want to pay taxes. So Scott, what do you think? Trump has now, because of the incompetence around the trade war with China, the notion that he can open a two-front war against European nations is just a loser. And the Scandinavians and the Europeans and the French and the British realize that he can't go to war with everyone around trade, especially on the eve of an election.
So they're kind of holding the cards. This also represents government filling a vacuum where because the laws and because of regulation and because of the idolatry of innovators and because of tax avoidance and because of the massive spending on legal resources and lobbying, these firms engage in wild tax avoidance. The U.S. Treasury is going to write Amazon a check this year.
Can you believe that? They're getting money. They're getting money from treasury. And basically what European nations and France have said is, okay, we give up.
Your tax lawyers are smarter than our tax administrators. You always seem to figure out a way to break even or lose money despite the fact that you're the second, third, and fourth most valuable companies in the world. So we're going to do what Brazil has done for a long time, and any company over a certain value is going to be taxed on its top line. It makes sense.
People are fed up. People are fed up with the amount of prosperity. You know, these companies are the most incredible vessels in the history of mankind that essentially do a couple things. They transfer wealth from the rest of the world to America, and then they transfer the wealth from the middle of the country to the coasts.
And people have had enough, and they realize they can't navigate the tax policy as deftly as these companies, so they're stepping in with legislation. It's going to start happening everywhere, and they're being given cloud cover to do this by Trump, who is the most disliked person in the world right now. I know. He sees everything in such a binary way.
I think, look, these people do business. They actually had that money parked in Europe. They were trying to bring home. They've been getting a lot of gimmees by the Trump administration, the tech industry, as much as they pretend they haven't been there or that they're opposed to them.
They're doing very well, and this is just a typical thing. It's sort of payback for all, like, not saying so much anymore. And this, you know, it's interesting. There was an issue in Germany a long time ago of the idea of trying to compete via regulation.
And I think there was some, in Germany, it was happening with the publishers. The German publishers were fighting against Google and others. And in some cases, that is a good point. They haven't made any good internet companies there.
Why? Who knows? You know what I mean? Like, a lot of people think it's the regulatory environment.
But the fact of the matter is they do business in these countries. They should pay taxes, proper taxes in this country. And so that will be interesting. And what's fascinating about it is that Speaker Pelosi is pushing to strip out sweeping legal protections, as reported by The Wall Street Journal, for online content in the USMCA trade pact in what would be a big blow to tech firms.
They're trying to impose Section 230, which is immunity protection, across the globe. Like, other countries don't have to put up with our laws, our particular laws. This is the law that gives internet companies a lot of lack of liability in a lot of things. And so she is opposing that.
It was a story in The Wall Street Journal. And oddly enough, and they're trying to put it in these agreements with other countries. And other countries should not be imposed by us, our laws like this. Like, they don't have to do it.
But what was incredible, so she's pushing to strip out sweeping legal protections in these trade for online content. And it's a big blow to tech firms. But oddly enough, Ted Cruz just tweeted, something I rarely say, I agree with Nancy Pelosi. Congress should not be passing special protection statutory giveaways for big tech.
And then, of course, he has to add, we should protect free speech and stand up to Silicon Valley's blatant political censorship. He's on his own little island on that. But the fact of the matter is, it's something that both sides agree with and that, I don't know, we'll see where the Trump administration comes down on this. But it's interesting, the protections they're getting from him.
This is actually really important. It's the boring stuff that's typically really, really important. And this isn't getting the That's one move out. Come on, every rich person.
Come on, a diver living a diver living in Thailand. He defends himself and you hire private investigators to dig up dirt on him. Well, then they're all well, then they're all small people, Cara. That's that's total bullshit.
That's an awful thing to do. I agree. It was it was it's not a great. It's not.
It's a really. You said, OK, you said billionaires. I know a lot of billionaires who have never engaged in any bullshit. You know, and I thought, why not apologize?
Like we're thinking money to something. Where's the board? Who the hell can call this guy and go, boss, stop being such an idiot and a small person. Go on Twitter and we will approve the suite and say, I want to apologize.
I was wrong. Let's move on. I hope you accept my apology. And then give him an enormous amount of protection, whatever that person wants to do.
That kind of thing. Like do something like saying this was my dad. Yeah, it's really hard for them to say, you know, so sorry. I mean, I like speaking of Larry Page thing.
I'm like, I would like it. I'm sorry for what went on at Google. Like, you know what I mean? A lot of the sexual harassment stuff.
Like, where was that? Like, where was that? And it's not like that. Everyone has to say, I'm sorry and put on a hair shirt and do a Cersei walking naked across the thing.
But it's really it is kind of amazing. I like that image. Shame. Shame with a mouth.
Shame. Anyway, listen, I'm going to I want to ask you a question. I don't know whether it's a win or fail that Jay-Z joins Spotify, you know, that they're trying to do this title thing. I would like to know whether it's a win or fail.
Can you please explain it to me? I don't know if 50. The strange thing is, it's sort of a fail. It's 50 sounds young to me now.
But wait, I want to go back. You're going to keep me digging going. But I have you ever had a billionaire hire investigators to dig up dirt on you? Because I have.
Maybe. I don't know. I was running activist campaigns and I tried to kick. I tried to kick the entire board off of a company I started called Red Envelope.
Basically, the billionaire who ran the board hired. They hired investigators to come after me. And this is what the firm Kroll, which I hope the earth opens up and swallows all of those motherfuckers. But anyways, they basically started calling old colleagues and old girlfriends of mine and saying, I were calling about Scott Galloway.
Are there any comments you'd like to make? And none of them responded. So this clearly wasn't a genuine effort to dig up dirt. It was just a genuine effort to intimidate me.
Yes. Yeah. And we're talking about control of a corporation. And the fact that people immediately resort to that.
And it's like you wake up every morning and you know how you feel. You feel like, you know, if you've ever been pulled over on the side of the road, the first moment when you look in the rearview mirror and you see those sirens going, that feeling of that feeling of real fear. Really? When you find out, at least with me, when you find out really well-resourced people have hired private investigators to pour over every aspect of your life for 40 years, you wake up like there's sirens going off everywhere.
And at some point it's like this is about business. I'm actually doing investigation. I'm clean. I survived it.
It's on my credit's good. Everyone feels pretty good about me. Have not had Kara Swisher's. All my girlfriends said the same thing.
She's boring. I broke up with them. But you know, that's it. Whatever.
In any case, I'm so sorry detectives are all over your life. I will not get to Jay-Z now. I want your thoughts on this. Like, like Title didn't work.
And this is a major star here. Major music. I love Spotify. Yes, Spotify.
What music apps do you use? I love Spotify. I love Spotify. But my kids, I told you, moved to Apple music.
They like Apple music. They just moved. Monopoly power. Monopoly abuse.
Yeah, that's what that is. Well, no, it wasn't. No, they just like it. My son likes it.
Like one of them uses Spotify. One of them uses Apple music. I use Spotify. I like Spotify.
I like Spotify. But they're doing really well. But what Jay-Z couldn't do a music streaming platform title. Well, there's no way.
How do you how do you? OK, platform is Latin for you need billions of dollars to create a mass technology networking effects. And Jay-Z is God, a billion, but he doesn't have billions. It's I can't who's going to who could do this?
I mean, the Beatles could do this or Madonna could do it. I mean, no one could do this. I don't you know, these could be spent billions of dollars on R&D and distribution. And they have amazing brands.
They have amazing technologists. So every once in a while, an artist gets angry and says, I want to pay all these people getting between me and the consumer. And there's been a few times they've tried to do this and it never works. The music industry.
And the problem with one of the many problems with this monopoly we're living in is it these mega monopolies cast shadow over all the duopolies in industry right now. There's been incredible concentration across almost every industry, including the music industry, which is essentially controlled by a few labels. And so, yeah, I don't think, you know, this is this surprises nobody in my view. Yeah, I would agree.
My fail, of course, is Bill Barr once again every week. You know, there's even the inspector general doesn't agree with him about the Russia. His cockamamy scheme to somehow push back this Russia. These conspiracy theories around Ukraine and stuff like that.
And then his own handpicked prosecutor is not going to support him on finding that the FBI acted badly in a certain way. And it's really interesting. He continues to be probably the most dangerous member of this administration, I think, in terms of what he's done at the Justice Department. I have a lot of friends who work there and they're just they're really good lawyers and they want to do the right thing.
And I think he's my fail. He's my fail of the year, I think, in many ways. That's a good one. Yeah.
Yeah. Anyway, prediction. Prediction, Scott Galloway. Oh, I already made my prediction, Kara.
I think the odds on favor right now for the Democratic ticket and the vice president role is Senator Kamala Harris. All right. OK, that's a good one. You know, the innovators.
What was it? Innovators. Innovator privilege. Privilege.
Really good idea. I think that's like that. That's going to be more and more in the same thing. All right.
So Kamala Harris is your prediction. She's going to be vice president. I say I'm going to go against you and I say Stacey Abrams. How about that?
Really? Yes. Yeah. She's super impressive.
Yeah. Super impressive. Yep. And by the way, did you see did you see who's come up?
And I think this might have been one of the reasons she got out was the new Morning Consult poll has Bloomberg at five percent. Oh, your guy. I'm so excited when you serve in this administration. What will you be?
What will your job in the Bloomberg administration? Then we're going to close. What's your job? Secretary of Chipotle.
That's right. A burrito bowl in everyone's everyone's cabinet. What is with you and Chipotle? They think you're your sponsor.
Do you eat any other burrito? I look, I've toned down to four or five times a week. Chipotle is so wonderful, Kara. Just surrender to the burrito bowl.
OK, it's just a chain. I don't understand your obsession with Chipotle. It's fantastic. It is fantastic.
Well, listen, I actually was in. I was in Boston and there's a chain there and I'm blanking on the chain. Here it is. It's called Chila Cates.
Best, best chain I've ever had. Echo A Mano con amor. You could not sound more white saying that. Say that again.
That was really hilarious. You sound like a Democratic presidential candidate mangling the Spanish language. What are you doing this weekend, Kara? What are you doing?
I am doing nothing because I am by myself this weekend with my older kids. And so I'm going to sleep. That's what I'm gonna do, Scott. And then.
Oh, by the way, next week I have to interview Megan Rapinoe again. Oh, good for you. Yeah, I have a whole bunch of stuff. You know who you should interview?
What would be a great interview for you is you should interview Barry Diller and get his plans. I have interviewed my will. That's why. Why now?
Why now? Isn't he taking over IC or Expedia again? He's stepping in and kind of doing. That's a good idea.
I should talk to Barry. I will call him. I will call Barry Diller. I will do.
And I'm going to interview hopefully the cast of The L Word. It's back. Eric Anderson saw it last night and said it was really good. So Jennifer Beals and I'm taking it.
And they're giving an endorsement for The L Word. Is it on Showtime again? It's about to start on Showtime. They are.
Is Jennifer Beals back in it? Yes, she is. She's great