CFTC Approves True Perps and Agentic Finance Gets Real: DEX in the City episode artwork

EPISODE · Jun 2, 2026 · 50 MIN

CFTC Approves True Perps and Agentic Finance Gets Real: DEX in the City

from Unchained · host Laura Shin

The CFTC reclassified perps as futures. Katherine and Jessi parse what the ruling actually permits and what it means for Hyperliquid. Plus: if your AI agent gets scammed, who pays? Thanks to our sponsor! Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com The CFTC approved a perpetual Bitcoin futures contract for KalshiEX, and crypto Twitter immediately got it wrong. Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos untangles what actually changed, why the switch from swap to futures classification matters for retail access, and what the ruling leaves wide open on leverage and decentralized exchanges. Jessi Brooks and Katherine explore the fact that AI agents can now place orders, not just give advice. They revisit their paper "The Agents at the Gate" and make clear why Robinhood's move to let agents charge your Gold Card raises liability questions that existing consumer protection law was never built to answer. In the strangest segment, they also dug into a New York lawsuit where an anonymous plaintiff is claiming legal ownership of nearly 40,000 dormant crypto wallets. Jessi explains why the lost-property theory will probably fail — and why even a partial win could force centralized exchanges into an impossible spot. Hosts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at StarkWare. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Timestamps 🏛️ 01:35 KK on why 90% of crypto Twitter got the CFTC perps ruling wrong ⚖️ 06:42 Jessi: the perps approval is case by case and the fine print matters 🌐 12:56 Does the CFTC ruling change anything for Hyperliquid and DEX perps? 🤖 19:54 Jessi: the financial system now has to treat software like a customer 💳 24:57 Why Robinhood's agentic Gold Card breaks the chargeback model 📣 32:15 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com 🗝️ 33:39 The lawsuit nobody noticed: 40,000 dormant wallets, finders keepers 📜 40:28 Why even a partial win for Noah Doe could force exchanges to act Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The CFTC reclassified perps as futures. Katherine and Jessi parse what the ruling actually permits and what it means for Hyperliquid. Plus: if your AI agent gets scammed, who pays? Thanks to our sponsor! Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com The CFTC approved a perpetual Bitcoin futures contract for KalshiEX, and crypto Twitter immediately got it wrong. Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos untangles what actually changed, why the switch from swap to futures classification matters for retail access, and what the ruling leaves wide open on leverage and decentralized exchanges. Jessi Brooks and Katherine explore the fact that AI agents can now place orders, not just give advice. They revisit their paper "The Agents at the Gate" and make clear why Robinhood's move to let agents charge your Gold Card raises liability questions that existing consumer protection law was never built to answer. In the strangest segment, they also dug into a New York lawsuit where an anonymous plaintiff is claiming legal ownership of nearly 40,000 dormant crypto wallets. Jessi explains why the lost-property theory will probably fail — and why even a partial win could force centralized exchanges into an impossible spot. Hosts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at StarkWare. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Timestamps 🏛️ 01:35 KK on why 90% of crypto Twitter got the CFTC perps ruling wrong ⚖️ 06:42 Jessi: the perps approval is case by case and the fine print matters 🌐 12:56 Does the CFTC ruling change anything for Hyperliquid and DEX perps? 🤖 19:54 Jessi: the financial system now has to treat software like a customer 💳 24:57 Why Robinhood's agentic Gold Card breaks the chargeback model 📣 32:15 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com 🗝️ 33:39 The lawsuit nobody noticed: 40,000 dormant wallets, finders keepers 📜 40:28 Why even a partial win for Noah Doe could force exchanges to act Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

NOW PLAYING

CFTC Approves True Perps and Agentic Finance Gets Real: DEX in the City

0:00 50:14

No transcript for this episode yet

We transcribe on demand. Request one and we'll notify you when it's ready — usually under 10 minutes.

Unshamed & Unchained: Carving Space For Self-Healing & Habit Transformation Danny Poelman Welcome to "Unshamed & Unchained: Carving Space For Self-Healing & Habit Transformation", the podcast where we break the chains of shame and societal expectations to create a safe space for self-healing, habit transformation, and personal growth. Hosted by a seasoned life coach, Danny Poelman DDS, with years of hands-on experience, this podcast is your guide to reclaiming your voice, embracing your story, and living life on your terms.In each episode, we dive deep into the topics that matter most to you—whether it's:-breaking free from unwanted habits like pornography-excessive people-pleasing-healing from past trauma-recovering from narcissistic abuse or religious/relational trauma-anxiety/depression-money mindset blocks-overcoming limiting beliefsWe’re not afraid to talk about the things that are often considered taboo, because we believe that through honest, unfiltered conversations, real transformation happens.You’ll hear real INDIÉ LÖVE, FÖR RÉAL EUGKEN Btw INDIE LOVE, FOR REAL is a heartfelt, genre-blending track that captures the raw, unfiltered essence of independent love—pure, intentional, and unchained by mainstream expectations. With mellow instrumentals and emotionally charged vocals, the song paints a vivid picture of love that’s authentic and uncompromising.Songwriter: Eugene MgonyaProducer: Rosco Beats Interchain.FM Chjango Unchained Interchain.FM is the Cosmos Radio Station which shines a light on the protocols that solve the hardest problems in Web3. It's a technical podcast that uncovers the vibrant world of bleeding edge technology built in the pursuit of anti-censorship, freedom, and preserving the privacy of the sovereign individual. Become an Interchain.FM🥩 staker on Osmosis, Comdex, and Umee! The Unchained Mind Alex Rudnicka Welcome to The Unchained Mind, where we dive into the power of mindset for entrepreneurs. Join us as we explore the art of creating your own reality through the limitless potential of your mind. Unshackle yourself from limiting beliefs and unlock the keys to entrepreneurial success with simple mindset strategies that help you create your reality using the power of your mind.

Frequently Asked Questions

How long is this episode of Unchained?

This episode is 50 minutes long.

When was this Unchained episode published?

This episode was published on June 2, 2026.

What is this episode about?

The CFTC reclassified perps as futures. Katherine and Jessi parse what the ruling actually permits and what it means for Hyperliquid. Plus: if your AI agent gets scammed, who pays? Thanks to our sponsor! Explore crypto careers that could...

Can I download this Unchained episode?

Yes, you can download this episode by clicking the download button on the episode player, or subscribe to the podcast in your preferred podcast app for automatic downloads.
URL copied to clipboard!