Chasing Terrorists - The Targeted Violence Podcast - Episode 12 with Steven Keogh

In Part Two of our conversation on The Targeted Violence Podcast, I’m again joined by Steven Keogh, former Scotland Yard homicide detective, as we shift from murder investigation into his work in counter-terrorism in the years following September 11, 2001.Before moving into homicide full-time, Steven spent several years working in counter-terrorism during a period of significant operational intensity in the UK. We begin by exploring what drew him into this field and how the threat landscape in Britain changed in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. We discuss how investigative priorities evolved, the rise of group-based extremist networks in the early 2000s, and the complexity of managing coordinated plots.A major focus of this episode is Steven’s involvement in several significant terrorism investigations, including a foiled plot by an Al-Qaeda–linked cell planning large-scale attacks in London. We unpack the scale and ambition of these plans — from proposals to target the underground system to the use of vehicles and gas canisters.We also examine the ricin plot led by Kamel Bourgass, and the tragic killing of Detective Stephen Oake during Bourgass’s arrest. Steven reflects on the operational realities of these cases and the risks faced by officers working in this space. The conversation then turns to the July 7, 2005 London bombings, and the chaos, uncertainty, and intensity of responding to a mass-casualty terrorist attack.From there, we step back to consider how terrorism has evolved — from structured, group-based networks to increasingly self-initiated lone actors — and what this shift means for modern investigations and threat assessment.The second half of this episode focuses on investigative interviewing. Drawing on Steven’s experience interviewing both terrorism suspects and homicide offenders, we explore whether these interviews differ in approach, the challenges unique to ideologically motivated suspects, and how interview strategies are built within the PEACE framework. We unpack the concept of rapport — often discussed but less often clearly defined — and examine what genuinely effective rapport-building looks like in high-stakes interviews.Part Two offers an operational and reflective look at counter-terrorism policing and high-stakes interviewing — examining not only how these investigations unfold, but how investigators think, adapt, and communicate under pressure.