Chelsea Handler

Welcome to Armchair Expert, I'm Dak Shepherd, I'm joined by Monica Badman. Hello. We're in a very awkward situation right now. Yeah, Wabi Wabi Wabi is here.

Wabi Wabi is here. And so Monica's running all the technical stuff. And so if you're hearing us right now, Monica did a great job. Yeah, let's hope you're hearing us.

Good job, Monica. Thank you. Is there anything this gal can't do? I think not.

Today, we have someone who truly needs no introduction, but I'll give one anyways. Chelsea Handler. Oh, love. What a party we had with her.

Very effing honest. This is one of my favorite episodes. Yeah. She was really, really incredible.

She really was. Made my job easy as hell. It was really fun to talk to her now. She has a new book coming out.

She's written a lot of great books. Oh, yeah. Her new book is called Life Will Be the Death of Me. And you too.

And it comes out April 9th, which is a week away. So pick that up. You'll enjoy it. She's a great, great writer.

She's hysterical and incredibly honest. It's a huge pleasure for us to give you Chelsea Handler. And one last thing I'd like to announce that we are coming to San Francisco Armchair Expert Live in the city by the bay. When the lights go down in the city.

Is that what city they're talking about? Yeah. Oh, cool. Armchair Live from San Francisco will be on Friday, May 31st, right on the knocking on the back door of summer.

That's Friday, May 31st at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium. Tickets go on sale this Friday, April 5th, at 10 a.m. Pacific Standard Time. There's a link on our website, armchairexpertpod.com.

So buy some tickets and party with us in the city by the bay. He's in our chair. How did you guys meet initially? I don't know the answer.

Monica and I. Monica and I's hobby is fighting with each other. Are we bonded over fighting about cereal, whether we thought Adnan had done it or not. And who did you think?

Well, I decided I didn't care if he did it. That he just shouldn't be in jail based on the evidence. So you're like a lawyer. Yeah, I'm a lawyer.

You're not an evisculptory evidence. And you signed the law. Exactly. Exactly.

I got that. I just got kind of horny a sculpt. Yeah, I just got plenty of time to get horny. Yeah, I know.

I'm trying to face myself. Just relax, everybody. Yeah, I don't even really know where to start with you. But Chelsea, welcome to the attic.

Thank you for having me. I'm really, really excited. The tables are turned because we've yet only shared maybe four or five experiences where you interviewed me. And now here we sit.

Yeah, right. That's right. This is a very exciting time for both of us. It really is a transitional phase for both of us.

But I remember doing your show. And a better host would reveal this much later in it. But I kind of had a crush on you. Really?

For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Like I think going to your show, it was more than just like, oh, I hope I'm funny.

I'm like, I also hope she thinks I'm cute. Or I hope you know what I'm saying. I hope there's some kind of rhythm that happens. That's interesting because most men are really scared of me.

I was curious about that, sincerely. Are they? I think so. It turned off as a better way to phrase it.

No. No, no, no, they are because I'm overly opinionated and loud. And it's not a hot look for a lot of guys who are really secure with themselves sometimes are more open to it. But usually guys my age or in my demo are not the guys that I appeal to.

I have like a sweet spot with like 70 plus your old gay guys. But straight guys, you know, typically, no one's hitting on me. But it's so great that I want to hit on back. Well, but maybe, maybe, we stay where they're afraid a lot.

Like girls say that. And I feel like that's a lame thing to say. Because I don't want to diminish men and stay men are scared of intimidating women. Because I'm not trying to be intimidating.

I just have a really big mouth. And it's like, I wish I would shut up too sometimes. Well, as a dude, I could float a few theories out there. One of them being, it's already scary to approach someone.

It's already scary to kind of like put it out there. Hey, I kind of like you. That in itself, even if the person's mute and can't report this incident to anyone else, is already scary. Now you add on top of it that they have some sense of your sense of humor.

And that you can be a cervic when duty calls. That fuck, if this goes wrong, she might humiliate me or make fun of me. And then it might be a story that then gets told. That I totally relate to because I've done that.

I've written about terrible sexual experiences in my books. And I've written about bad dates. So that's totally warranted. Yeah, and when you did that, did you change their names?

Or did you call them and ask them? Sometimes I would call and ask for permission. As I first started writing books, the legal issues are you have to get permission from everybody. So I just changed names and disguised people.

But it's so stupid because you're changing, like I was changing my siblings' names in my books. It's not hard to figure out who I'm talking about. Yeah, if you can't talk about your fucking siblings, they're your, I mean, they're your siblings. Talk about their be a legal issue with that.

I think they are, like, I agree with that theory. Like if it's your family you're allowed to talk about, whatever you want. But it's like, you know, for instance, my brother in this new book, I talk about my brother's wife. I talk about her in Russian, and obviously in enemy of the state.

And I talk about her about her and not in the most flattering way. And I told her how I feel about her. I love her ultimately. But I asked him, I was like, is this really going to hurt her feelings?

And he's like, no, go for it. So I did. And we'll see what happens when she reads the book and it comes out. But I feel like you can take in your siblings, you can talk with your siblings, you're talking about your own family, but people who are not your blood relatives, you don't have as much license with.

Well, yeah, and obviously, people did not choose to be in The Public Light as you and all. And I didn't choose to be my family. So there you go. That one feels equal.

Like, yeah, like fuck you. I got you guys. And now you got me. But like, maybe yeah, friends from the past or something.

And they're like, hey, man, we met in a math class. I wanted to do a being accountant, not a bad lay story in your book. Right. Exactly.

So boyfriends, to your point, you're absolutely right. Men, I behaved in the way I behaved in the past. That would include men feeling like, oh, and that would warrant men to feel like I don't ever want to go near that girl because she's going to ruin me on camera or on your book. Yes.

Well, I even like on a way smaller side, like Kathy Griffin, I've known for years because I was in the girlings and she was in the girlings. I adore her. I love when she's on Stern. I don't want to be around her at all.

It's just a weird box. She's painted herself into it. Like I don't ever want to be the punchline to her. Stand up.

Right. And I don't mean to flatter myself that I would be, but just knowing that the whole routine is basically interactions with other people that are on TV, I'm like, well, why even be in that situation where I could end up there? And I love her. And I think she's funny and stuff.

Right. Like I'm sure Brooke Shields is like, why did you have to go and do that a whole bit about, you know, she did a whole bit about like Brooke Shields and her mom. And it's like, wait, you're at their wedding. Like it doesn't feel invasive unless you're fucking cool with it.

And a lot of people are not cool with it. Well, you know, it's really funny. If I drilled super deep in my own ego and insecurities, it's also likely a status thing. Like if Robert Downey Jr.

wanted to tell a story about me that was embarrassing, I'd be like, yes, do it. I just want the world to know you like me. But then if I deem the other person to be of my status or lower, then I'm like, you just keep that quiet. Yeah.

I think a lot of people in this industry do that. They're different tiers of success. And you're like, are you in this list or are you in that list? Yeah.

Like, is there a story Michelle Obama could tell about you that you wouldn't welcome with open arms? You would, right? And you'd be like, you know, tell it to many people who will listen. Because that means that your guys are so familiar with your friends with Michelle Obama.

You'd show your pants there. You had to wear a pair of Michelle's pants out of the house. Yeah. Or Brock's.

Yeah. Exactly. That would be Monica's choice for sure. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. I want to go back to intimidation really quick because it's not just men. Right? Don't you think women are intimidated by you?

But what happened was, you know, I was doing my show. I've been, you know, doing some version of my show for like 10 years. You know, you'd get certain people who were like, well, they want to make sure they would say, you know, make sure, please don't bring up his weight when he came on. Bring up his weight.

And they're like, yeah. And I'm like, I would never do that. They're like, of course you would do that. Like you've done it.

You do it. Yes. But when you have a guest coming into your so to speak living room, you're going to treat them. I'm not going to go off on my guest.

But then again, I did do that too. So like everything I'm accused of, I get it. Yeah. Like it's just in the moment, you're like, I'm not that kind of person.

But when you look at it, you're like, oh, I see how I came across. I am so glad you just said all that. Because it just reminded me of the very second thing I thought when I first did your show. And it came true.

And I went to do your show and I was like, what are the easy things to make fun of about me? Well, my girlfriend's more famous than me. And I was there. I think the first time to promote this movie went around that Kristin and I both did.

Yeah. And I'm like, I guarantee she's going to make like an imply I got the role because of Kristin. In fucking A, you did. I did.

Wow. And then I came right over the top and was like, well, didn't your boyfriend give you this show? That's a good comeback. And how terrible.

Like I came with that in the chamber. Yeah, but you should have. That's what happened. But that all happened.

And in that moment, I just felt this kinship to you that I think I've always felt for you, just observing you from the outside where I thought, I think you and I have had some similar childhoods or something where we've always got one in the chamber. Yeah. And I kind of feel bad for both of us that we would need to have one in the chamber at all times. Yeah.

Well, I know. It's a very, it's a very defense. Like, you know, you have this attitude. Like, I'm not ever nervous about, I guess not looking stupid, but like I'm never worried about me not having a quick enough.

Like, I don't get nervous about, like if somebody's an asshole, I want to go in. Like, here's Morgan's an asshole. Sure. You know, I went on his show and did, you know, did an interview with him knowing he was an asshole knowing he disrespects women and like doesn't, you know, interrupts you.

But I like that challenge because it's fun for me. It gets me fired up. Yeah. Go off on somebody.

Yeah. It's perfect for you. Like, great. I'll be there at three.

And again, that in itself is a unique characteristic. We were just flying home from San Antonio and I got into a fight with a good friend of mine about fucking the legal system, right? And I was getting real hot in Monica, like kicked my foot like, hey, P.S. You're getting a little, you know, loud for this flight.

And then during the, you know, the next day we talked about it. I'm like, I hate to admit this. I actually enjoy that zone. Sometimes I get it so infrequently because I'm surrounded by all women and I would be a fucking monster to be yelling and stuff at them.

So, yeah, like locking horns with this friend of mine who's, you know, I kind of liked it. Yeah. I, there are a lot of people who really are conflict avoiders. I'm a conflict.

Like, I embrace conflict. I embrace it a lot less now that I've seen a proper psychiatrist. I've dealt with my childhood shit, which is what my entire book is about my therapy. I would use the word journey, but I hate that word so much because the bachelor ruined it so many years ago.

But you realize there's a reason you like conflict. But there's also, I hate being somebody who doesn't, you know, stand up for something or, or like if my two friends are in a fight. I like to take time. You're wrong and you're right.

Yes. Like, you know, when your friends are like, hey, I need you to say something to that person. Right. And I'm like, great.

I'll do it. And now, as I'm getting older, I realize, and now, because I saw a shrink that worked helped me a lot, I realize, oh, it's not your place. You don't have to tell everybody all the time what they're doing wrong. Who the fuck am I to tell people?

Yeah. And they don't, not everybody deserves your honesty. It's like you save that for the people in your life that are very important to you. Yeah.

Yeah. I have like a mantra I started, which is literally something that would be shouting in my head, which is your opinion is not required, your opinion is not required. Yeah. Yeah.

All the other people in the world are getting by just fine when I'm not there. So why do I think when I'm there, it's crucial. I defend this person. Or you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. Yeah. I think mine is pretty transparent in that I had a lot of step dads. There are a lot of new people that had a new program that I had to follow quite often.

And I was too young or too small or too physically and capable to defend my mom or to, you know, I will not be a part of your terrible plan and your bad idea and your fucking bad judgment. I won't be a party to it. You won't be taking advantage of that. I won't be taking it.

I was molested. I won't be, I will not trust, you know, I won't let you fucking abuse my trust. So it's preposterous. Oh, wow.

Who's counting? Me. Fucking weird. That is in January 2nd.

You did a fast math. Yeah. No, I didn't. No, I didn't.

Man, you crunch those numbers like a goddamn calculator. He really likes fast math. So that was really impressive. Thank you.

I'm also a really good speller. So hit me. But isn't it funny, though, when I'm in that zone, I have a whole narrative which is like, no, there's justice and I'm in a position to defend all these things. Definitely not with the few on the tank is for that.

Right. That's right. Yeah, you know. Agreed.

I'm learning how to sit back and not insert yourself. Like I feel a lot cooler. I think also when you host a show, there's so much, you feel, there's so much instilled pressure to always insert yourself, to always keep it moving, to make it funny, to make a joke, to make light of something, to make fun of something, you know, and like that can become kinetic and it can become your way of life. And if you do a show and you're, you know, on for 10 years, you start to be on all the time.

Yeah. And I want it to be off. I was like, so over myself. So I think we all go through phases where we start to like grow up a little bit more and realize like less is more.

The more I like myself, the less of those other things I even care about. All these things that I think are pillars of what I care about, magically I don't really care all that much about them. Like on the days I like myself. You know, I'm like, I can roll with a bad driver and I can roll with a shitty fucking person at work and all these things.

Right. Exactly. Yeah. So I just, I'm now realizing it's, it's all me.

If I can get this thing like running tip-top, I don't really have many problems. I can just see things where we're there. Oh, that person's scared and then that person's this. Yeah.

Right. You know, but it makes you feel much more sagacious too. You're like, oh, like I just came. Well, now I just came.

What was the first one? What was the first one? Can't even remember. Yeah.

We should maybe keep a list and put. Yeah. I'm already writing it all down. My assistant's outside and down.

Wait, one thing. I think the interesting thing is the person who really has the power is the one that knows they're being taken advantage of, quote, taken advantage of and not care. Like Kristen Bell always like knows, oh, that person thinks they're doing this, but I don't care because I'm better than that really. So like to not care and to not fight back is actually, you actually have more power.

It's kind of aspirational. Yeah. Yeah. She is.

Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was really, I thought it was very brave that you put that out there. And that you didn't care that everyone heard you guys just bickering for an hour basically.

They want to control freak. I wasn't that whole thing. But I mean, I think that kind of honesty, like I, you know, I think that's important. I mean, it's also good for people to care because everybody thinks that they're only things are happening to them in their life, you know what I mean?

And it's relatable. Or even worse that like they're, you're going to bump into somebody and they're your missing piece and then that'll be, yeah, like you'll just now be on the honeymoon for the next 20 years. Like even this thing you guys think is so cute is like a ton of fucking work. You know, we don't wake up in the mood to just get along all day.

What happens? Maybe one in 20 days. Yeah, it's almost unethical for you to do the Samsung commercial and then not air. Like you have to balance that out.

Right. No, but back to childhood because the other fun thing, not only are we born within, you know, just mere days of each other. Your dad was the only used car lot? Well, a lot is an exaggeration.

It was like a driveway. Okay. And it was the driveway in front of our house. So I don't think he really, like he fancied himself a used car dealer, but like they didn't, there was a lot of turnover.

The cars would come in and then just be there. But there wasn't a lot of selling cars for a lot of the life. Sure. He loved finding a good deal.

He was certain he could. Really embarrassed. Okay. The kind of education I got from him about the world, I think, was dramatically shaped by the fact that he had that job.

Yes. Like you're saying, yeah. He was my dad was sheister. He was dishonest.

Right. Here's what I was. The way I was going to dress it up was my dad's only moral imperative was make money. Like that was the moral imperative.

Like fucking make money. And then you're set. That's what life's about. So by hook or crook, whatever you got to do, just fucking make that money.

And I just wondered if that was kind of synonymous in the used car game. Yeah. I think if you're a used car dealer, things probably just didn't work out the way you thought they were going to because no one grows up and says I want to sell a used car. I mean, maybe you want to sell cars, but you don't set out to sell used ones.

Right. You know, that's not a goal. Although that is where all the profit is, by the way. It's like dentist.

You're like, well, is this really your passion or did medical school not work out? Sure. Who really wants to go into somebody's mouth and clean out a cavity? That can't be like what drives you.

It's a responsible career and it's a good career choice because you can make money, but is it? It just feels. Yeah. Yeah.

Or unintended. Or like a fallback to all the dentists out there. I just want to know. You want to know how much I appreciate?

Oh, I've already got in trouble with dentists. Because we talk about how much they commit suicide in that, you know, but very high rate. I'm in trouble with the veterinarian committee community. Oh, congratulations.

Thank you. Well, what'd you do? Well, I guess I will be in trouble because the book's not out yet, but I talk a lot in the books about how that's really just don't have any like concrete information for you. You know, every time you rescue a dog, they're between four and twelve, like it's a big margin of error.

Or they say, oh, we have she has an infection and we're going to remove all of our teeth. And then you say, well, why would you remove all of their teeth? Like, I mean, she's going to have to chew. Can't we keep some of them and like, and the woman on the phone, she's like, well, we're going to remove the ones that are infected.

Am I right? So what if they're not all infected? Well, we'll see when we get into it. I'm not taking my dog to my own fucking dentist.

Forget about it. Well, she goes, we'll see when we get them out. Yeah. First we'll remove them.

And then we'll put them through a battery of tests. And then we'll know pretty certainly. Right. My, I have a separate but adjacent pet peeve, which is in, look, I couldn't be a bigger proponent of rescuing dogs.

I think it's awesome. My wife is rescued a trillion dogs, but every fucking person who I meet who is rescued a dog, it's always, yeah, she was being abused. Every single person's rescue dog was abused. And I just, I just want to know functionally, how would you know that information?

Exactly. Were you observing the dog in its last home? How is this even known? The dogs tell them.

Apparently the dogs tell them, but it does seem that about 98% of people are rescued dogs. They were, they rescued them from an abusive relationship. Yeah, because what people do is they turn their dogs in and say, Hey, I'm abusing this dog. Yeah.

But did dad have a worldview that you could maybe sum up for me? He was, you know, my dad fans. Is he still alive? No, he died.

Last year, actually, a few months ago, actually. He was old and he needed to die. Like he's, it was like, there was no quality of life. He was in a whole day.

I'm glad he's gone because that was no way to live. And you know, you don't want to remember people at their worst. You want to remember them at their best. And my mom had a long slow death.

So that wasn't ideal. She was really sick. My dad wasn't. He just was in a home.

Like, you know, but my his philosophy, I mean, he was dishonest. He was kind of in love with himself. Like he thought highly of himself. He loved that he had so many children because it meant he was, you know, masculine.

And he was very kind of, he was a little chauvinistic, but he was like filled with a lot of life. We had a really great time growing up. There was a lot of drama and trauma because my brother died when I was a little girl. So that was bad.

Really never recovered from that after my brother died. He just kind of lost his. You're such a fun guess because like, yeah, a couple of things I want to bring up is like, yeah, at nine, what is that like when your brother dies and what does that do to the whole family? And then I'm thinking, like, Oh, eventually I have to tip toe around.

And then you're just like, here it is, but which I applaud and I love about you. But I got to say this, I watched a few minutes of your marriage documentary. I had watched the drugs one a long time ago and I loved it. It's so, so good, by the way.

Thank you. I watched the marriage one just today. And I watched dad walk in the kitchen and you're like, Hi, is that you? He says, is that you?

And then he adds me and then he goes, I love you. To me, I heard like, Oh, guilt, guilt, guilt. You're not around enough. Like, that's something my dad would have, it would have been like, I love you.

But then there would have been just one word that I knew what meant, which was like, you're not around enough. And then was mom to love your life. And then he won't cop to that. Right.

And I was like, there's so much happening within four sentences of this interaction that for me feels familiar. I'm like, is mom to love you? Was mom to love your life? He's like, I don't know about that.

Yeah, I don't know about that. You've been talking about moms that you died like every day. You're talking about like my mother and Rita. And then we ask him a question straight out.

And he's like, no, I'm not sure if she was the love of my life. I mean, that was why that's totally my dad, you know, I can't commit. He intentionally wanted to marry a non-American. And a non-Jew because she wanted to shiksa because my grandmother was like, you know, a mean Jewish bitch.

And she was like, listen. And his father was like, listen, don't marry one of these Jewish women. They're going to drive you nuts. He's not married.

Gentile. And I grew up thinking my mom was Jewish for the first 10 years of my life. I didn't learn that she wasn't until my brother died. And they had to bury him in a Jewish cemetery.

And then the whole family has to get plots or whatever. And what was revealed to me that my mother was Mormon at that time. From Germany, no less. And then I was going to be interested in even at nine.

And she just obviously put that on the back burner when she married your father. Yeah. She came over like after the war. And, you know, not long after the war.

But like, it was a sensitive subject for a Jewish guy to marry her. So she said, yeah, we'll raise all the kids Jewish, no problem. Once my brother died, she was like, fuck this. I'm going back to my religion.

And she became, and she converted my sister to become Mormon as well. Oh, really? Did she try to convert you? Yeah.

They had me read the Book of Mormon. And then I just was like, this is so stupid. This is not how I want to live my life. Yeah.

You didn't believe that Jesus was born in the United States? No. No, I did not believe that. No, I did not believe that.

That is one of the more amusing aspects. I thought he was born in Missouri. Did you read under the banner of heaven? I did not read that.

Oh, fuck. You know, he's receiving Joseph Smith receiving a lot of revelations from God. And he will disperse them to the parishioners as they come in. And he's starting to sleep with many members of the group that follow him.

And now some of the revelations are specifically about his wife. It's like, and God said to me last night, Mary, stay out of my business. They started getting like many of the early revelations are directed directly at his wife, basically saying, you just stay out of his business and let him handle it. Anywho, that's comedically pretty juicy.

But when I was watching dad and I was thinking, oh, you know, he got a gal from Germany in this. It is a technique for some men to kind of withhold approval, withhold affection, withhold these things to maybe keep self-esteem a little low because you don't think you're worthy of this. So maybe if that person feels shittier about themselves, I look good in comparison. I'm reading a lot into it.

But when I heard maybe not the love of my life, I just said, I thought, oh, that's a technique. Yeah, that was weird for me to hear too, because my dad would go on and on about my mom, like our whole lives. And even after she died. So when he did say that in that interview, it was like, what are you talking about?

Who were you playing up for? Yeah, so I don't know what that was about. Okay. But my dad, he was very manipulative.

He wasn't, I didn't like the way he conducted himself. He wasn't honest. He wasn't fair. He would, people were marginalized in his life.

Like, you know, if we had a guy working at the house, you know, the guy would be waiting outside to be paid. So he was doing yard work. And my dad would be like, if you want some money, he can knock on the door. And it's like, you know, like that kind of shit that made me sit growing up.

And I was like, I don't ever want to be a dishonest or cheat or lie. You know what I mean? And I wanted to be independent. So I never had to rely on a man because that was my father.

And that was what men looked like. And the other issue was that my brother died when he was nine and swore to me, like, on our last night, you know, that he was coming back. And he's like, I will never leave you with these crazy people referring to my parents. He was the oldest and I was the youngest.

So we were bookends. Six of you? Yeah. And so he was like my first crush.

And Monica, he went hiking in the Grand Tetons in Jackson Hall, right? Yeah. And then he fell off a cliff. Oh, cool.

That was pretty brutal. And until I met this psychiatrist who I actually interviewed on my Netflix show for an episode on like early education and adolescent brain development, he explained to me that, like, you know, when something like that happens when you're nine years old, you get stuck. You're stunted from that age because you have to wrap yourself up so you don't feel the pain. My father fell apart.

My mother fell apart. Everyone just retreated into their own corners. And until somebody said you, as a nine-year-old, you digested that as rejection. He rejected you.

He went off and found another family. Well, he cared about something more than you. He valued this trip weirdly more than you. And he wasn't careful.

He wasn't careful. He told me he was going to come back and he lied to me. So in my nine-year-old head that was, oh, you can never trust men. They will always lie to you.

I was like, it's so obvious, but yet until you do that work and like kind of talk to someone who's a professional and studies that, I didn't realize I was acting like a nine-year-old with regard to any men. So back to what we were talking about at the beginning, how men are fucking scared of me. I'm fucking scared of that. Yeah, 100%.

So it's rejection before you get rejected, which is obviously like class A, whatever, you know, typical textbook behavior. But it helps to hear it from someone that has nothing to do with your life. Because I think, you know, for me, I never wanted to go to therapy and really dig it up because I thought I was too smart. I'm like, that's not, I know my brother died.

I know my problems. But whatever, it's working. I'm strong. It's shit together.

I've got a career. I've got everything I wanted in my life. My friends, my family, blah, blah, blah. And it is a cliche, especially, you know, to hit 40 and all of a sudden go, what the fuck is going on?

Why am I acting like this? But it was so worthwhile to like actually have a professional that you're paying, you know what I mean? I like that exchange. I want to burden people with my problems.

I want somebody to get money for it. Yeah, 100%. So that was, it is exactly what you're saying. We do have a lot in common because it's about unearthing that and saying like, okay, you know, a year of like really hardcore therapy and I was like, okay, now I need to break.

I got it. I got my problems. Yeah. I understand everything I've learned and changed my behavior so that it's not as in your face and not as like nail scratchy and be softer and more gentler and actually like look to find somebody in this life.

Yes, I do want a boyfriend. It's okay to say that. It's embarrassing to say I want a boyfriend, you know, I don't want kids. I still don't want that.

And I'm not embarrassed by that. I know that I just, it's not a good use of my time, but it's okay to admit that you want to be in a relationship. And before that was just like that, to me, reeked of weakness. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

Well, it's all very, very tricky, right? Because if you establish a checklist of, if I get that and I get this and I end up here and I have this amount of money and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, so all these characteristics, sure, I get it, they're from trauma, big deal, they're getting me this list. And then the worst thing that could ever happen to you is you could obtain everything on the list, right? And then go, oh, this is curious.

I still don't feel good. And I guess the goal isn't to get the shit on the list. The goal is to like, enjoy this ride. Like if you have all the shit and you're in pain and discomfort and agony, who gives a flying fuck?

Well, so many people are like, well, you know, money can't buy you happiness and it's like, well, it fucking helps. Okay. I mean, and I'm not a depressive. I've never had depression.

So, you know, knock on wood. I know that's a serious issue that I'm grateful that I don't have. So it's hard to recognize what your issues are until you stop spinning so fast, you know? For me, it was just move, move, work, work, work, work, do a show, do a book, do this and that the emptiness became everything just became so fast and I was missing my own shit, you know?

And it wasn't until really like until the election that I really freaked me out and like really shook me so hard. And when I went to go talk to, you know, a professional about my outrage that I felt it was like, okay, this outrage, yes, Donald Trump's awful and, you know, should not be our president, but this is so deep. This is an inside job is when I learned that my outrage, he doesn't have to affect my mood. He doesn't have to ruin my life.

I have deeper issues that I need to un, you know, also owning the fact that like you're giving permission for that person to have that effect on you. Yeah. Yeah. I lost a year of my, I mean, I gained a year of my life in a sense, but I lost a year of my life because I couldn't even work.

I couldn't do anything but watch the news. And what that represented to me was my childhood being out of control because like the world's a good place. We are in America, adults will take care of the political stuff and we just have to keep cashing our checks, you know, it didn't realize like, oh, I'm not really looking outside of my own lane. It's what it's like to be, you know, a marginalized person in this world.

I'm a woman, but I'm white, you know, I'm successful, I'm pretty, I got rewarded for bad behavior my entire career. Yeah. Talking about guys, sleeping around, writing books about sleeping around, I mean, everything I did was rewarded. And why?

Because I'm privileged. You know what I mean? I'm just fucking lucky. Yeah.

Yeah. Me too. I got a horseshoe at my ass. Back to mom.

So did you feel like therapy? That's what we do. It's the goal. It's the only thing I'm really interested in.

Yeah. It's like fucking motorcycles and like talking about things. Unless you want to go riding. You couldn't have been like super stoked.

Mom was who she was. If you were aspiring to be a very vocal, you know, self-advocate and mom, as you would learn drops of religion, all these things, was she a little bit of a disappointment and who you would have wanted her to be? My mom just was like very different for me. You know, she was very like shy and soft-spoken.

She wasn't like, she didn't understand where like how she even gave birth to me. You know, we're total opposites. I'm like a lot more like my dad, like you are saying yourself. So my mom was just, I wasn't disappointed.

I mean, I was disappointed in her in many ways because she never would show up, you know, they'd never pick me up from school or Hebrew school. They would like leave me for hours. They did that to all of my brothers and sisters. So it wasn't like I was special in that regard, but- You're also what, number six?

Yes. Also let's just acknowledge what a life she, if she came here in 58, she's like a four-year-old during World War II, right? Yes. I mean, what a fuck.

Like if she just ended up somewhere that had heat, it ain't all that bad. Right. It's not like she was giving up a chance to be a doctor and a great kind of like fuck if she just landed somewhere where someone was like, there was a house, that's a big victory. So I'm not judging at all.

Yeah, no, no. You can judge my mom. I don't give a shit. I mean, you know, I don't judge her in that way.

You want your parents to be someone you want to aspire to be. One of my weirdest resentments about my dad is that I wanted him to be a guy I was trying to be like. And then I wanted that guy who I idolized to look at me and say, you did it, man. I'm fucking proud of you.

I'm going to hand this torch to you. I mean, what a bizarre thing to have a resentment. He did say I'm proud of you, but I wanted it to come from a person I respected. Mm-hmm.

That's right. I know that I had that feeling with my dad. I was very interested in pressing my father and having my father understand that I was powerful and that I was strong. My mom just represented me not a strong woman.

Like she wasn't on the deed for our house growing up. She never made the decisions. I was always my dad. That was the boss.

And I didn't want like that. You know, to me, it was like, okay, I had two examples. I mean, I have two other brothers, but they're, you know, my two biggest attachment figures were my father and my brother and both of them took off. Right.

So, I mean, my father was physically there, but it would have been better had he actually physically taken off because he was just wrecked. And, you know, I think when a man loses their firstborn child, especially a son, I think that's a real, you don't get over it. Yeah. Ever.

Yeah. Well, this all was in retaliation to me and look where it led. No, no, my brother was like, wasn't like that. My brother really played ball with my dad.

He was like the second dad in our family. It's my other brothers that really rebelled and like when, like he was the pro, like the good son, you know what I mean? So when he died, it was like, you almost felt like, oh God, did they wish it was one of us. Right.

I definitely was like, they probably want me to be gone, you know? Yeah. And I think everyone probably had that because you're a kid. You don't know any better, you know?

Not choosing who's dying, obviously, but it's just a, it's a fuck job. What, you know, death is agony. Is agony and it hits you and you cannot, it's, you know, you can't, you could only way through it is literally through it. Yeah.

Can you go around it? Because it creeps back up on you like any of our issues from our childhood. So, you know, I'm glad now that I have the ability and the vocabulary to articulate my pain instead of just pretending that everything's fine and getting through it with somebody, again, who I'm paying to get me through. Right.

Right. You know, not a boyfriend or a friend who's like, shut the fuck up or whatever. You didn't like give me a hundred bucks when you leave if it makes it all feel cleaner transactional. Okay.

So as a result of this childhood, what kind of kid are you in high school? Because I saw a picture of you. It was in the, in the episode two, where I was like, oh, I knew that girl. Yeah.

I was pretty bad. What does that mean? Any more details? Well, her hair is fucking on point.

There's hairspray galore. She's a fox. And it also looks like this is going to be a party. So buckle up.

Yeah. I was like, you were a party, probably an eighth grade. Yeah. I was a party in eighth grade.

I actually, I was, I ended up leaving. I went to high school in, in summer of only Jersey and lived with one of my brothers for a year because after my brother died, my relationship with my father just went haywire. I was, you know, I was nine and then I was, you know, 12 and then I wanted to, I couldn't take it. Yeah.

No one was reliable. No one was reliable. So I was like, oh, this is up to me. I've got to make a life for myself.