Chelsea Peretti

Welcome to armchair expert. Do you think beatboxing triggers people's miso? Honia, maybe, but it's relevant because our guest has miso. Phonia.

Should we change the name of this podcast? I mean, we cannot stop talking about it. Chelsea Peretti is the person who has a touch of miso. Phonia and she's on our show today.

When you started doing that beatboxing at the beginning, I really had to sneeze and I got a little panic. I was going to ruin it and you were going to get upset. You think I'm such a monster. I think you're so sensitive today.

Chelsea Peretti is here and Chelsea Peretti is a phenomenal stand up comedian. She was a writer on Parks and Recreation and she was one of the stars of Brooklyn Nine Nine. And just an all-around interesting voice in the comedic world and a lady. And we like to talk to ladies.

Hell yeah. We need more girl power on here. I'm holding down the floor big time. I know.

I've been really, really pondering all this because again, we do invite a lot of females and a lot of people of color and we just are not getting the yeses in the same percentage that we're getting from the white males. And here's what I finally thought of the other day. Tell me your theory. Okay.

I'll tell you what. I'm an extension of the white male privilege. It's triggering that word is what I think it's speaking to you is that you ask like a white male if he wants to come in and talk for two hours and he's like, you bet you I got two hours of stuff to say. You're talking about myself.

Yeah, there's like a confidence to it. Sure. Where you like you feel entitled to pontificate for two hours. Look at me.

I'm sitting in this damn chair. Billion hours of just fucking chatter boxing and I feel totally confident with it. Yeah. Do you think?

What do you think about that theory? I like that theory. My theory is that actually percentage wise, it's probably similar of who's saying no and who's saying yes, the problem is the numbers themselves. There's just more white male actors, but I think it's about numbers that you know, there just aren't as many and that's got to change.

Yeah. But anyway, sorry, Chelsea Freddie. We bogarded your intro, but without further ado, Chelsea Freddie. He's an old chair.

I'm nervous for you. Are you going to sit that erect this whole time or if so, just when you finally when you're in the instructional integrity of your spine breaks down and you finally relent. So just please bring this with you. Well, he told me I had to scoot.

So I thought I had to be like, no, no, yes. You don't want to know the honest truth. I don't know. I might have to sit up.

I feel like you're post-op. Like we're dealing with someone who's got stitches right now or something. Have you had a recent procedure? It's a spiritual procedure.

No, but it is funny that you said that because in my car, my nanny uses it too. And every time she uses it, it's super slouched back the seat. And then I'm always like putting it up 90 degree angle. It just feels better to me.

You like to be very alert on top of that. I see people like you in traffic all the time and I swear to God again, I'm so into driving and cars and off road shit. When I see people like you, I honestly think that person's a sociopath. Look how attentive these snowing should be like that white knuck old.

Everyone should be attentive while they're driving. So right away. Certainly. Everyone could benefit from taking a big deep breath behind the wheel and relaxing is my thing.

I don't think he can't relax. He means slouching back because it sort of compresses your insides in some gross way. Okay. And you're always on top of that.

You like to stay on top of the arrangement of your audience. I don't really have a philosophy about it. I just did notice that my nanny puts the seat way back and I sit way upright. But it feels better on my lower back.

Are you short? I mean, can you see me? Well, I have a hard time doing that because I'm very short. So everyone is tall.

But I think like for my legs sitting way back on this couch, it's like my feet are like a toddler's. Yeah. It's not an ideal couch and I appreciate you pointing that out. And then also it's like, is that rude to me?

No, no, no. I hate when people put their sneakers on furniture in my house. I'm like, oh my God, who raised you? What about on a coffee table?

That's fine, right? That's less if they're clean, I guess. But I just think it's like to put your shoe on a postured furniture is outrageous to me. Yeah, I did that in a picture and people got really upset.

They really did not like it. It's fine if you take your shoes off and it's just your sock. I don't care. I'm almost more worried about that.

Really? Well, they like just give me the rubber whenever street crime you picked up. But now we're getting into like maybe athlete's foot or some kind of. I freak out about that at the airport because you've I've never in all my travels seen one person like cleaning the floor with bleach in the security checkpoint.

And then you have the pressure to be barefoot. If you don't have like if you're wearing a sandal, people just walk barefoot and I'm sure it's just corrosion. My wife has a very, very hard time with that part of the experience, the TSA experience. I have other issues.

So there's no moment in the whole experience where one of us isn't upset or talking ourselves off the way. What's your issue? The power. The balance of power.

In subservient to the TSA being told to do something that I can see serves zero point. The little outline of shoes on the ground. I don't fucking have to stand in those outlines. I'll be able to proceed through this line without causing any.

I've never seen them enforce that. Well, let me tell you. And for a long time, my wife was just like get over yourself. But she slowly over 11 years has acknowledged that some I trigger something in a lot of guys.

Guys tall and blonde and blue. Guys. Well, that's not good. I'm tall and I think I trigger for some guys.

They think I was on the football team, which I wasn't. And I'm the dude who shoved them into a locker, which I was not. This is very, I don't, I don't agree with this take because if I see you, I think you're brunette. Okay.

And I don't think you play football. I think you're a tall brunette comedian. Well, I don't know. What do you think?

What did you start as? Did you do? I would assume. I started at the ground.

I got here from Detroit and was like, how does one get on Saturday Night Live? And at that time in 95, the singular trajectory was groundlings. And who was like the hot shots there when you were starting out? My class was at one point we had a comedy troupe that rented theaters and no one came and that group was Melissa McCarthy, Ben Falcone, Octavia Spencer, Taylor, Nat Fax, and myself and this guy, Brian.

And only Brian left town. It becomes kind of attrition. Would you agree? Attrition.

Yeah. Or a war of attrition where it's like you're just waiting it out. Part of this game is just wait sticking around. Yeah, definitely.

I mean, I'm like in such a dark place right now. I'm trying to think about what I think it's about. But I do think definitely like when I was doing stand up, I remember like this guy that was you know, a mentory type figure was like, watch these people. Like they'll be people who are so buzzed about and people love and then they do drugs.

They smoke weed, they drink and they're doing the same material in 10 years and they fall out of the scene. They fall out of the picture. And I was like, wow, it's comforting to make comedians. Yeah.

It's kind of true. It's like, you know, but I don't even know if that's what you're saying about attrition. I mean, I always think about since I've moved here, I kind of feel like ambition is disgusting. You don't like it.

I just feel like I'm like, whenever I meet someone in LA, I'm hoping that maybe they'll be like not hell of ambitious and everyone I meet is so ambitious. And sometimes it's just like not inspiring. What element of it? Do you find it exhausting or do you find like they are only interacting with you because they think it's going to benefit them in some way?

I just find it like narcissistic. It's one thing I like is different as someone's talking about creative things they're super excited about. But I think what I mean by ambitious is people sort of talking about powerful people that they're going to work with or that are showing interest in them or talking about money or talking about like kind of satisfying things instead of the creative like I don't know, sometimes like, did you read Steve Martin's book about stand up where he was like, I mean, it was. Everyone I like has mentioned referenced that book.

Yeah. And it starts out and he's like struggling, like working at magic shows and stuff. And then it's like by the end, he's playing in stadiums and he has to change his whole act because the small things he was doing don't play to a crowd of that size. And then he goes back where he started and like, he still knows how to open the curtain.

And he's like, I would have given anything to go back to that time, you know, where he was creative and hadn't made it, you know, and it just the whole thing bummed me out because I'm just like, Oh shit, I'll probably never be happy. You know, like that's the peak forward to the absolute best case scenario. It's like a brilliant comedian who has made it. One of the best.

And everyone acknowledges it's agreed upon. Yeah, that they're the best. But but doesn't that just circle back to something that you and I both know, which is you will never regulate the inside with something from the outside. Yeah.

It's just that formula doesn't work as great as it would be if that formula worked. Because I think what you're saying I can relate to, but I can relate to it in the way that I grew up with a fantasy, there was several elements of the fantasy. But one was if I was rich, I was going to feel great. People like loved me broadly.

I would feel great. And so I'm not shocked that he he longed for that. And yet I also don't think he's still even answered because even opening the fucking curtain or going back, I don't you don't. That's not how it works.

He had to open a curtain for the rest of his life. Yeah, or just he's now in his memory. He's kind of idealized this this area of his life where it was pure. But that too is a fantasy.

Yeah, it probably is. Right. They're both times have good and bad in them. But I do think like when I was doing open mics with this other stand ups, there was way less competitiveness in a way and it was way more of a group endeavor like, Hey, let's all go to this open mic and let's eat after let's go have a drink after.

Yeah. And like, you know, the more successful people get the more of a lonely thing. I think it is. Pretty isolating, I think, for some people.

Yeah. Are you compassionate towards that? Or do you think it's horseshit? People who are isolated by success.

I'm compassionate. I mean, when I moved here, I was amazed how accessible successful people are because they're like, I need a friend. I don't, you know, like you'll be that friend, you know? Sure.

So I've, but now I also kind of get it because me and my husband, we like we're reclusive. We like staying home all the time. Like we went to bed at 10, 20 on New Year's and it was like, this is blissful. Yeah.

Yeah. So I don't know. But I think also it makes you more that way if when you go out, like people want something from you or they're like too crazed, like their energy, you know, it's like it becomes a whole different energy of interacting with people. But how about this?

Do you believe on any level? I don't clarify that. I don't think people are crazed fans of mine, but like I think there's nothing you say came across that way. No, no, no, no.

I'm just making it. In fact, I wish you had something closer to that. We're interested in the taste. But how do you feel about this thought that you subconsciously, you gather proof all the time to confirm your narrative or your theory or your worldview?

And in my own experience, I'll just give you my two second version of this was if you would ask me five years ago, what like the number one thing people liked about me was I would have said always in the one or two slot would be that people feel safe around me. Like I will get messy if anyone's threatened at any given time. I was convinced that this was something a good quality of mine. And when that was my identity, you'd be shocked how often I saw things happening.

Like they were legit. My wife will tell you I would constantly find myself in a situation where I'm behind a car and some big asshole gets out of the car and starts slamming on someone else's window. And then I have to go get involved or I chose to go get involved. And once my wife was like, can I tell you something?

No one likes that about you. In fact, I make them feel more scared to be around you to know that you're always going to get involved in shit. And once I like unconnected that, I don't see it anymore. Now, do I think the world has changed in the last five years?

No, I just think magically I don't see it anymore. Yeah. Because I don't need to see it to get involved to like reconfirm this bizarre identity I've constructed. Yeah, I definitely think that that happens where I mean, even for me, like reading the news all day, if I do that, I feel totally different walking out in the world versus if I just, you know, play with my child or cook something and then walk around, you know, it's, it makes your brain be like the aliens have contacted us.

Oh, they may kill it. I mean, I literally had that thought with that news story that, you know, the aliens or something, some planet was sending radio signals to Canada. Did you see that? No.

Yeah. How would I miss that? We make content like a billion miles away. I know I'm like, it was buried between like an Ariana Grande headline and something else.

And I'm like, hello, this might be rather important. And, but yeah, I like, I had the thought like maybe the US government knows that there's life out there and we only have a matter of time. And this is why Donald Trump is acting how he was like, we're all going to be dead in a six minute. I might as well, you know, repay all my debts to Russia.

Sure. So I happen to hit the lottery and that I live with someone who sees the world in the most optimistic way of my people. Yeah. Like we see someone on the street, but she was drawn to you, you know, like, I don't know how you see the world, but I'm guessing it's a little different.

Much darker than her version. But I think dark people and light people are drawn to each other to live out their sides that they don't live out. So she's probably darker. But I will say I used to think she moved through the world in a naive way.

And I thought people were taking advantage of her and I thought all these things. Yeah. But then I also was aware of the results, which is for someone who's getting taken advantage of, she's doing quite well. You know what I'm saying?

Like she's benefiting. No, I mean, you see that with so many people. It's like, oh, if I just didn't get in my head and pick everything apart, then things would probably be fine. If you think things will be fine a lot of times they are.

But the problem is if you're not organically wired to be that way, you can't fake it. I mean, you can try and you can work on it and improve, but you're still going to have that at least momentary battle of like an instinct to overcomplicate or be anxious, you know? Oh, 100% agree. Yeah.

Yeah. My first stop is always still Schitsville. Yeah. She hasn't affected me in a little bit where it's like she thinks the world is full of great people.

And when she leaves the house, she finds them. Right. She spots them because that's what she's looking to confirm. Yeah.

And a little that's worn off on me. And I got to say less and less in my eyes. It's just weird. I find it very weird that how much of its perception and how much of it is like you see what you're looking for.

Yeah. No, it's true. It's your husband generally more optimistic than you or less fatalistic or whatever you would describe. I don't know.

He's a, she's a strange one. He's like sweet and he has a calm energy, but he's also like fucking obviously dark and crazy. And he's very, I mean me and him watch stuff. I mean, I think probably our favorite thing to do is stay home, watch something on TV that's usually horrific and then make jokes about it that are just, you know, cynical and callous or silly or whatever.

But like it's, you know, he's definitely a partner in that. He's not like, oh, you know, yeah. Bell too. Bell is very like her dark sense humor with shock probably most people, but she does like those moments of how much more I'm just saying is evil is what could be thought of.

Those guys get off Scott free. They seek out the dark person. I'm like, but I'm nice. Until the kid goes to bed in this date line time.

Yeah, but I've noticed that with so many couples where like one person always the nicest guy is like, well, why is he with that woman? She's a dark minded soul, you know, but I think it's because most people are a combination of all things. And do you feel protective of your relationship and that you don't like that it's in the public's fear or you want to? Well, we aren't that much.

I mean, yeah, we aren't like interfacing that much publicly. Yeah, like they'll be like a magazine. Do you want to talk about how to make a marriage work? I'm like, Oh my God, no, absolutely don't because I have no idea.

Right. I was like, you know, fell in love with someone and, you know, take every day at a time, I guess. And so I don't like also, I just don't want to be held to anything with a bunch of strangers in my relationship. Yeah.

For me, like the first four years we were together, I hated when I was doing press and I would get asked about her. My personally, I was insecure of like, Oh, the only thing interesting about me is her. They can't get through this conversation with me. They're checking with her.

Yeah. I used to be really wound up about it. And now we're such a public entity. We've totally embraced that.

Now I look back on all that. I think while you really wound yourself up like crazy over really ultimately nothing, like I'm now on the side of like, Oh, yeah, I love this person. I'll do a million interviews with her and I'll talk about her ad nauseam. Yeah.

I mean, part of it all is like, I want to be able to pull that a little closer. I want to hear you. I'm trying to lean back. I want to be able to evolve.

And like that's part of what I think is frustrating about making a lot of your personal life hub. Like it's like, then you're held to whatever you felt a year ago. I mean, this is what I actually don't like about stand up to. It's like you say all these things when you're 20 and you're acting now.

It's like you're on record with these dumb opinions. Yeah. And stand up to get kind of like stuck in a point of view sometimes that they feel like they have to be true to themselves from 10 years ago. Yeah, they're like almost doubling down on it, maybe.

So, but yeah, so I may very well may totally change how I feel about, you know, my marriage or whatever. Yeah. But at the moment, I would say reclusive is the word, but you know, not that we don't want to go to a party once in a while, but I think also it's because our child is hell of young. So it's like anything we go out to, you know, that this is ticking clock till he wakes up.

Yeah. So it makes it way less fun, you know, 100% how old is your son? He's a year and a half. Uh-huh.

So he's walking around and saying, yeah, he's walking. He doesn't have his favorite phrases. Oh, please. I can't wait till that's out of the presentation.

Oh, please, please. And it's like, he doesn't know. I'll be like, OK, I heard you and it's up, please, up, please. I was like, oh my gosh.

Oh, yeah. But I do love it. Wait till he starts saying, um, mommy as a tick. Yeah.

Like both of our kids at some point, it just became a tick because she, yeah, our daughter would go like, mommy, momma, momma, and kissing. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.

It just all ready. I'll be holding him and my face is an introvert. He's like, momma, momma. And I'm like, yes.

And he just says, I got my guess. Yes. Yes. It's like, what is this?

What are we doing? Just like affirming that we exist or something? It's kind of cool. It's really what I want to do in a relationship.

Just like tap press in the middle of the night. I'm still here. Yeah. But, um, but yeah, there's so many intense things to it.

But, uh, it's so funny. It's such like, he's so entertaining and sweet and stuff and do you find it like, I don't want to over glorify it. But for me, it was very profound. I know it's tricky because comedians have run the gamut of like my kids' rassels to let, you know, whatever.

I mean, I know I wouldn't take that tactic out of saying my kids' rassels. I love my kid. Yeah. And, um, but what are you going to say?

Well, I was just going to say for me, it's been like, um, uh, the singular experience I'm glad I didn't miss out on. Yeah. I've had a, like way too much good luck in my life and I've been in weird places and I've got to my egos, but all of it is none of it compares. Yeah.

I've just been so satisfied with how kind of filling the whole thing is. No, it definitely blows everything out of the water. We're like, Oh, shit, like this is insane, you know? Yeah.

And what I like about is it's kind of democratizing in that like, I think some people would be envious of Christianized lifestyle. But I know the thing they can do is still the best thing we've ever done. You know what I'm saying? Like if anything spectacular that's happened to us, the number one thing for us is those kids, everyone can do.

Yeah. Yeah. For better or worse. Not everyone, but I think about the list is going through miscarriages right now.

Very common. Anyone who's getting IVF right now, good luck. Fingers crossed. What a schedule.

What a schedule. I'm amazed. I'm amazed that women are able to go through that. I was very frustrated by the idea of childbearing because it doesn't feel feminist to me.

It's like, I feel like I was just like, I just feel like biology isn't feminist. Like, why does the woman have to her body physically just bear a new life? I don't know. I mean, obviously that's also very cool and amazing, but it's just like, how do you make that feminist if you're, you know, working and all that?

Christian felt the same way, of course, now on the other side of it, knowing that I have a vasectomy. She now very much is like, I'm so sad. I'll never get to do it again. Was it painful to vasectomy?

Are you just completely under? You wake up, everything's great. I chose to go under. I think some people do it like in their car, you know, right away.

I think there's varying levels of... It doesn't sound like a good idea. And knowing I was going to be out, the guy was like my urologist, shout out to Dr. Joseph sent one of the best nippers in the biz.

He was like, hey, you know, you're about the age where I should be checking a lot of things annually. You want me to do that while you're out? I'm like 100%. You're like, go to town, while I'm out and just get all that done.

So was everything was good on the show? Ship shape? Ship shape? Everything goes in ship shape condition.

So you and I kind of know each other. Yeah. We have a couple mutual friends. Maybe only one.

Leslie? Yeah. I'm trying to think of... Maybe your friends with Sarah too.

Yeah. You occasionally like it maybe Largo, we would bump into each other and feel like we know each other, but you're a uniquely hard person to get a read on for me. You know what's funny though that you say that because I feel that right now. I'm trying to look at you with empathy in my eyes and I feel like you're reading my face.

Like it's like, you know, not and I'm trying to make my eyes like warm. It feels like I would panicky or something and I'm trying not to. But it's a great superpower. It's a great superpower for it to have over fellow comedians.

Do you feel that with a lot of people? Like do you feel a lot of people are kind of intimidated or not? I do. Sometimes I like it and then sometimes I'm like, I'm just a kid.

I'm just like a baby. I'm scared and I'm nice and I'm sweet. But then other times I'm like, I have this bad. I wheeled it.

I don't know. It's weird. But I mean, like what you were saying about your wife making you see the world in a new way, I feel like so many things as about an older have made me that way. You know, like want to see the good in people and want to be a nice person and all that stuff.

So, you know, I don't like I said, I was trying to make my eyes as warm and welcoming as I can, but then I'm also like in a weird mood. So I'm trying to not be like really high energy to mask that I feel weird or something. But yeah, I mean, I'm not trying to be intimidating. I think the difference is like a lot of people try, like it's like sort of too hard to mask themselves to put people at ease.

And sometimes I guess I don't do that. You're not like codependent by nature. Well, I'm not like giggly. I don't know.

I can be. But I'm not right. But I was bringing that up having nothing to do with right now. I feel like you're very open and invite right now.

But I guess what I'm saying is if someone were to have asked me yesterday, does Chelsea like you? I would go, I have no idea. I've talked to her six times. I made like a real effort to go like, Hey, I know Leslie and we have these things in common.

Yeah, when I've walked away, I'm like, no clue. Might totally dislike me. Might like me. I mean, I feel like if it's a rushed out, sides scenario, it's hard, but I've always thought you seemed cool.

Yeah, I don't like doing podcasts that much. So I did it because it seemed fun. Yeah. I only have this, by the way, that I can think.

I think generally I know people like me or don't like me. That would be a fun game though, like to try to like just say names in comedy and in Hollywood and say they like it or not. I don't know if I could answer a lot of them. I always think people might secretly hate me, but I always think that might be because I have such negative thoughts about so many people.

Right. And I always wonder like, because you know, comedy, my comedy friends, I'm in like five text chains where we just shit on everyone we know. So I'm like, I have to be the recipient of this and some other. Sure, sure.

You know what I mean? Well, I always think that even within our friendship circle, it's like, well, Gossip about three or four different members and then on the way home on state of Christmas, I'm like, you know, there's no way we're immune from that. Like when they talk to them, there's certainly a long list of it. Yeah, I sort of assume it, which is kind of comforting where I'm like, well, we're all human.

There's things to hate about everyone. There's but at the end of the day, we all like each other. I don't know. Yeah.

One, and they always talk shit about each other. So I feel like I'm very used to like, you go to one place and talk shit about the other person and then you go right to that person and you probably even bond with them about the usual dislike of some characteristic. Yeah. Yeah.

So if it's like an early way to bond and get approval and love and all that, yeah. And just to try to make who, you know, make that parent feel good about whatever they're saying. Yeah. Yeah.

Stay tuned for. A mirehmer expert if you dare you have siblings. I have one brother older. Oh, you're older.

Older. Yeah. Another thing I learned about you. Yeah, I'm looking at the fuck out of you.

Did you get that donation alert on Wikipedia? You know it's funny. It's my primary source of research on here. And I get it.

Do you donate? I didn't know. I don't know why. I don't know why.

That one bothers me. And I can't say why. Except I think I've always hated the photo they put on with Wikipedia. And I can't change it.

I feel like there's wrong stuff in there. There's pranks. I don't know. But then on the other hand, it is a great resource.

And they probably deserve the $3 they're asking for. But the messages are so desperate and crazy. And then I just get like, I got to get out of here. My issue is way too theoretical.

Mine is, it's not like you're protecting some kind of journalistic integrity. Just fucking sell a couple of visa ads. I don't know why it has to be supported by us. I don't think they're going to compromise.

The integrity of the site will just by its inception, they've decided they won't have advertisers to sway the content. But imagine like they have a planters peanut ad. And then the planters wiki page is fucking crazy. They're like, what are the foremost peanut killers?

Yeah, and they're really good at chaining you. Like I did leave, by the way, it would have been much cheaper for me to pay 10 bucks and not feel like shit for 30 minutes. But I did leave the experience going. I want to tick.

Yeah. I know. I would give them $20 cash if they were walking by. Yep.

I don't participate in Venmo or any of that shit. I'm of a generation where I'm like, I don't want to join any more apps, and I don't want any more passwords. And I think everything's going to get hacked. I don't want to put my credit card into their system.

That's my real issue. If I, to your point, if I could hand Mr. Pedia, the fucking 20 spot. Wiki, Pedia.

Wiki, E. Pedia. E. Pedia.

Oh, do it in a second. Oh, but yes, your brother is one of the co-founders of BuzzFeed. Yeah. I find that so exciting.

Anytime there's two famous people in a family. I like Cantren. I had the Roncins. Remember them?

The Roncins. Samantha Roncins. Oh, who was her sibling? Oh, yeah, the DJ.

I know her, but who was her sibling? I forget. OK. Wait, wasn't his name like DJ Roncins or something?

Oh, there are all the DJs. I find that less impressive. I think so. But now I'm forgetting.

How about the manuals? I love this. You got Roma Manual. Yeah, this is a Hollywood mogul.

Yeah. Isn't that exciting? Well, it's funny because me and my brother were like, yeah, the secret is divorce and trauma. Trauma, adversity, trauma.

Does that not trip you out having a child now? I'm like, I attribute most of my drive to that. Well, I mean, I will say, like, to my mom's credit, like she was a teacher. She was a kindergarten teacher.

And then a French teacher. And then she got a PhD. And she became a teacher educator. So she was very hands-on educational with us.

We didn't watch TV. Oh, really? Yeah, there was like very specific things in our. That backfire, because you're both in media.

I know. But I did it not because we were. I don't know. I mean, I watched like one show week at my mom's.

And then I would binge at my dad's all weekend long. So I have perfectly kind of set up this. That's what I did. Yeah.

My mom was broke and had us three kids. And then my dad was a bachelor. So he had like a huge TV. And then our last time we would go to this place in El Cerritos, called Pick and Pack Lickers.

And he would get jolts, snowballs. Do you remember the snowballs? Yeah. Pink like chocolate cake with cream, then marshmallow, then pink coconut.

Then a Snicker Bar, then a huge bar. And cool ranch Doritos, and then like a deli sandwich from this liquor store. And like when I would go to his house, the kids would score like, I call your lunch, you got your dad's house. I call your wife.

And then my mom was like, you know, healthy, no TV, tea, toler, like totally different thing. And your what your daddy for living? Criminal defense attorney. Oh, really?

Yeah. So a smart person, presumably? Yeah, they're both smart. And both into schooling.

And but was dad like, I assume he had partial custody or like every other weekend. Yeah, I don't know when I was way younger. It might have been every weekend, but then it was every other. And then it was like, we just had dinner with him once a week when we got older.

And was he like a swinging bachelor like my dad? No, he was in, he's in his third marriage now. So he was in since I was one until I think when I left for college, he was with the same second wife. OK.

But he was like a cool car. He wore cool suits. He drove a cool car. He was like a cool guy.

In fact, like me and my brother were looking at pictures when he was young. He had like shaggy cool hair and like a puff coat, like, you know, a camel color pucker and like dark glasses. And he's holding my brother and we're like, yeah, like you forget that your parents were cool when you were young. By the time you were cognizant of their identity, they're not cool anymore.

Well, I mean, he was always cool. He still is. But like that young hip thing, you're no longer that when your kids get to know you better. My dad had a pinto at one point and he would like race other cars.

Oh, really? Unconventional race vehicle of Pinto. Yeah. Well, I think that was part of the joke.

We'd be losing. And be like, you know, screaming a pinto. He was like, putting his neck forward and stuff. And you grew up in Oakland?

Yeah, Oakland. And he was in El Cerrito near Berkeley. Or either your parents funny? Yeah, they're both funny.

It's hard to describe their humor, you know? It's not broadly. My dad's humor, actually, much of my childhood was with like a hypothetical of what he would dress like to go to court or what he would say to the judge. You know, it's like, I'm going to dye my hair jet black and say you're on it.

It was always like it ended with him saying you're on it. But it was always like some weird thing he was going to do in court. But also he's just very like silly and songs and crazy people that was drawn to him. Like he was just reminding me like we were walking around at this mall when this crazy woman came up to him.

He was with me, you know, a little kid and she's like, fuck you. And he goes, well, fuck you too, Miss. But it's like, if you saw someone crazy, they would be lying to my dad. It's like kind of almost blowing his cover that he seems so straight laced.

And then the crazy people are like, did he do? Uh huh. Did he ever have any like famous cases? Did he like ever defend anyone like the fucking hillsides right or anything exciting like that?

He did. He did. He did this Bradley Page case that was a Berkeley. I think there were two Berkeley students and they went on a hike and the guy came back and the girl didn't, you know, he said they got in a fight and blah blah blah blah.

It sounds like a day line episode. That one was kind of famous and I mean, my dad was pretty distraught during that one. He was. Yeah.

Did he was he victorious in that case? I don't remember what happened. Exactly. Maybe it's best we don't remember whether he got him off or not.

Yeah. But he had a variety of, you know, Bay Area cases that were like that. I broke out. And do you guys, do you call your dad?

And have you seen making a murder? And you follow any of these documentaries like Robert Durs? Yeah, I didn't see the Durs one. I saw making a murder.

You must see the Durs one. Right, Monica? So is it a podcaster? It was on HBO.

Okay. No, because everyone's told me, but I guess it would still be good. It's still good. Yeah.

Such a character. Like he is a fuck. I think most murderers are. Yeah.

They're all the charismatic. Well, what a card. But we we we like Robert Durs a lot. Like I said afterwards, I still would have him as a house guest.

What about a podcast? But in a second, I traveled to him to do it. I find him so lovable. He's like this little muffin.

He looks like Kermit the Frog. Why did he kill that lady? Look, why do we have to do anything? Why don't you just kill people?

I think those were like a murderer sympathetic. I am very sympathetic to murders. We just talk about this. I had my interview my mom on here.

One of her unique qualities, which I always loved and grateful for, is whenever being the paper that like someone killed someone in a drunk driving accident, her first reaction was always she always felt bad for the perpetrator of the crime. She was always like, you know, that guy was a little baby one day and the family handed out cigars at the hospital and they celebrated. And then somehow that story ended here. She was always crazy compassionate towards just kind of everyone.

And she always kind of took the opposite view of things. She was a sociopath. She was a sociopath. I do feel that way after having a kid where it's like any story I'm like, that's someone's kid, you know, whatever the scenario.

And you recognize when you have a kid, like we start out pretty perfect. Like we don't paint anyone. They're not like, you don't have that shit yet. And it does get put onto them.

And I put, you know, we're constantly just putting stuff on them and you just kind of recognize what a blank slate they start as. And it gets sad that anyone's blank slate would end up killing someone or whatever. Did you see the movie we need to talk about, Kevin? What was it?

The son was a killer? Yeah. And it was just sort of the opposite idea, like, what if some people are just born evil, basically. It was so scary.

That's certainly a thing. Yeah. I mean, clearly. Isn't it bonkers?

Well, are you watching the R Kelly thing? No. What's that? I mean, I know that R Kelly has a history of urinating on people or something.

Children. Yeah. But this is like a six part series about his abuse of young women. Oh, really?

It's insane. Where do we view that? Oh, God. What is it on?

Just at Showtime? Uplift TV. It's like on, it's on, I think it's maybe lifetime or showtime or something. Okay.

One of the times. But it's so fucking dark and it's like he was acquitted from that P tape lifetime lifetime. It's on lifetime. Okay.

But he was acquitted and like you see how that helped him continue his predatory behavior because these parents of young girls were like, well, he was acquitted. So in the eyes of the law, he was found not guilty. So I thought he wasn't, you know, like, but literally he just said that wasn't me on the tape where he's literally someone's calling his name in the background. And everyone in the girls family was like, that's not her.

And presumably either he paid them off or the girl was embarrassed and doesn't want to be seen as a being in that video or whatever. Yeah. But it is crazy. Like he was acquitted and then they had one juror who was talking about it and he's like, I just didn't like any of the girls.

And I'm like, how they were dressed and I didn't believe anything they said because of how they looked basically. Yeah. When you hear some of the jury deliberation stuff, it can get real disheartening in a hurry. Truly.

Well, and then also think about how much everyone you know tries to avoid jury duty. Like, I just went actually, I was selected and I went and I spent all day there and they didn't choose me. I mean, they didn't even ask me questions. Like I just got dismissed.

They're like, you're clear for the time being. But if you think about it, it's like, all these people that were so fired up about politics right now and all this, it's like, we should be dying to do jury duty. Yeah. Because people are wrongfully imprisoned, you know, all the time.

And it's like, or justice isn't served because it's like, it seems like they're just shitty jurors. Well, this was my dad's like, uh, education to a young man. Like when I turned 18, my dad said to me, he said, listen, listen, when you get called jury duty, no matter what question they ask you, you say, I don't know where there's smoke, there's fire and you'll be on your way in 10 minutes. Like, it was this big bit of wisdom he passed on to me.

It was not a good feeling. So would you say your childhood, how close are you and your brother? We're four years apart. Can we close?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it helps right when your parents are divorced and going back and forth, I can become allies in a way that I think some siblings don't. Well, I always think it's so weird when siblings aren't tight.