CHH Hate

twice more twice more twice more twice more twice more twice more we're back this is twice more on radio this is your boy Jason of course with Devon right here in the flesh we are back with another podcast it is 2016 June 16th 016th and we're excited we're excited about another podcast we got some more heat for you today we are going to go on the topic of hate and Christian hip-hop Christian hate in Christian hip-hop let me kind of set up the premise of this whole thing I spent a lot of time online perusing amongst the Christian hip-hop websites and basically I wanted to kind of talk about a particular subject that came up it was really big in the industry for the moment that it was and that was none other than reach records changing their their mission statement they updated their website with some information and I want to say that the Christian hip-hop world went upside down all because they did not use the word unashamed in their new information and I just want to say well first of all there's always been people who have discounted what reach records has done since the beginning of reach records once reach records became big and they started to reach out and get actually recognized in an industry where Christian hip-hop is not recognized being just hip-hop in general there were many people that automatically said well no these are wolves in sheep clothing they are anti-Christian they are 666 they're all that wow and I just want you to know that from the bottom of my heart from the bottom of my heart I don't think I really seriously don't think that Satan would use oh I take the bat he would try he would try but I don't think that Satan has infiltrated the hearts of these young men who are out there really saving souls really saving souls and as I listen to their music yes the music changed over time yeah the music has changed my own means has a direction changed no the direction is still to to lead people to Christ and I believe that they're still doing so what I do believe though is that there are too many people on the sidelines criticizing the actions of those that are active versus being active enough to what I don't have time to be concerned about the actions of others so Devon come on jump in way in on this whole situation let me just actually I was gonna pull up the the whole thing on rapzilla because rapzilla was the site where where everything just went bananas and everyone was just going really crazy simply about them not using the words on a chain and it got so bad that it was there was a initial article that came out and then there was a retraction and I'm sorry and I made it went too far and I think I prayed about it after I went off and it was people stupid people relax for a second comment on whether I tell you what my mission is or not you can see my mission in my actions come on somebody listen I want to jump in here let me let me also give context for those who are first-time listeners of this podcast god bless you thank you for listening it's already off the rails but let me understand Jason is a veteran in his Christian hip-hop game he downloads mixtape he like he buys records and I say that with the almost respect because I'm a musician I grew up of music but for me my brain is so scatter brain when it comes to music I rarely find myself diving into one genre right but Jason is for real about Christian hip-hop I am fairly new in fact I would want to attest that majority of my Christian hip-hop life has been influenced by Jason so with that being said I tend to watch what happens in Christian hip-hop with different eyes from the external view as opposed from inside the belly of the beast and initially when he told me about this subject matter I didn't really know what was going on news wise I didn't know about the repzilla stuff none of that right this is what I knew okay I knew that I watched a clip of Andy Minio there was a tweet sent out Andy Minio performs on some television station in New York right just perform on his song from his album I listened to it and in the interview process before the song starts he had a hat on that said 116 think it was a hat and I said hey what is 116 right now for me when I know about 116 116 click on a shamed crew those two things are mixed he instead goes it's the crew that I run with and I think most of us were expecting him to be like oh man all praises to the most high Jehovah you know I just you know I'm I'm repping the King of King's Lord of Lords who saved my life I used to be into pornography but the Lord pulled me out right I think I didn't want to serve him yeah we thought that was the oh he's about to blow it up with this and he didn't he was like you know I talk about it more about it off air now that's when I noticed that people were going crazy so I didn't know about the repzilla stuff but I thought anyway when I heard that I thought this is the dumbest argument inside of the church I could ever think of and the very first thing I thought about was when Jesus came in and cast it out demons and in the fair season Sadducees he said hey I'm in terms of transsex it was the it was the internal it was the church right they go hey he cast out those those demons by basil bud right and the idea behind it was this Jesus responded goes now why in the world if I was on Satan's side would I cast out my own right so here's the question I have for you here's a question I have for all you Christian hip-hop people who are upset let's just say the Andy Minio afterwards took to reporter backstage shared the mission of 116 and prayed the prayer of salvation with that person and that that person is a disciple is that not worth being led in that moment to not say unashamed in fact anybody who's not a Christian doesn't listen to Andy Minio thank you care less whether he said not ashamed or not it is only the church who know that he's already had a shame hence the tattoos hence him doing concerts hence doing his half of us getting saved somebody come on yes now to go right to that that Andy Minio spot right I watched that video a couple times and as I watched that video what I saw was a person who was asked a question after he was told not to share certain things so you think you can say Christ I think they told him not to talk about specifically the stance that he has that's a very believable premise where the song was enough because you talk about God in the song but I don't want to get on here preaching right right and then they asked him the question what is 116 and he's like mmm and obviously you told me not to you know they probably asked as reporters had no idea what 116 was in the first they didn't realize that what they were asking him was what do you believe it yeah so there's so much that goes on behind the scenes and let me tell you what somebody who deals with television and feels with music right on a very very small scale nowhere near the scale he's on I will tell you there are so many things that go on behind the scenes to try to create this perfect 30-second to five-minute clip that what you're saying is very very that's a very plausible thought that hey they really could have told him hey you can do Christian hip-hop but your song can't specifically say Christ already those things right and he may have been like hey I get on there from my record when people hear my record they're gonna hear Jesus on him in fact there was an interview that he did just recently said if you think my music isn't about Jesus then you obviously don't know my music or something crazy like that and I think it goes to say like guys listen listen we look crazy inside of Christian happen with Molly did this not happen with Molly yeah it did when he was like I'm starting with a con and the whole church was like oh my god yes people ask me the Holy Spirit he's gonna straight the hell oh my god it was like come on man like let's be honest and I have friends or musicians who play for two chains who play for a set rocky now mind you I wouldn't do that but this is what I do know there are some of these guys who are literally ministering to these cats and it's really weird right it's really weird but it's not your ring of the alcohol too right and then let's go this go to the next this go to the next place with this right Jack let's assume twice more blows up yes okay blows up and let's say they go hey we want you to come guest host on the Steve Harvey show for the radio show you guys great we wish you guys can park it hard we'll come out there here's the here's the premise when you get on there you can't say anything about Jesus you can't say anything about the Bible you're not Steve Harvey he can do it you can okay fine we get on the radio and somebody goes hey so what does twice more mean all right what explanation could we possibly give that will fit both parameters of answering the question and fulfilling the request of leaving Jesus exactly exactly the same for a company the same for a nonprofit organization and we would look extremely uncomfortable in answering that question yeah after having been told that we cannot talk about Jesus or what have you so I personally feel like that's what was told to Andy yeah he never actually to my knowledge never actually talked about it yeah never spoke about it one thing I will say is this about retreters is they don't address haters no as much hate as they receive they don't address it and here's the first thing so back when I want to say rebel came out that was that was a craze but a third hour yeah this is when the right really starts to blow up back when rebel came out there was this guy who would make videos and he had tattoos and he looked like the leftovers of cash money records actually no he looks like he looked like the leftovers of no limit leftovers yeah he looked like a leftovers but he had like something shocking he had like teardrop tattoos as if he was a killer baby he just he he really embodied New Orleans thug is what he looked like to me I was just to be no offense New York thugs that being said he he was going at LaCray like nobody's business and he was talking about how LaCray is this LaCray is that he's a wolf and she's clothing and he's just gonna leech out of hell and this that and other and he literally had videos that had been watched 20 30 40 thousand times on on YouTube the cra to my knowledge never acknowledged him never said he'd been on waff you never had to but this guy's whole premise his whole attempt at fame was to bash someone who had already made it but from that standpoint how do we see this in hip-hop though we have and this is what this is why I get disappointed by it because we're supposed to be the called out ones right meaning our actions should show who we are right it's not about what I wear it's not what about what I say I am it's about what you see in me right and if you see my actions as a Christian yeah then I should be actively being Christ like in my actions so when someone else is successful I'm not gonna say they're successful only because of this right right you know I mean yep and I get it there's there a lot of you know theories out there on the success of black people that entertainment and you know you've got to be homosexual and you've got to be you know you've got to have given your life to say and then all that comes I get it I get it I get it I get it trust me I get it but that being said these guys are sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ and the people that are pulling them down are the Christians are those that supposedly fly the same matter I don't and that throws me off it throws me off completely as well and I have heard this premise floating around about the other shame thing okay that look crazy new book on a shame is coming out on a shame there's your by the way but that part of it was a market employee that that reach was very aware that pulling down on a shamed off of their off of their stuff was going to obviously have people wondering waiting and that was gonna create discussion around the word unashamed and that it would drive book sales now now I will say this that that in a secular sense that makes sense I don't I don't know look right but I don't think that is something he would have to do I think just based upon his name and Christian hip-hop world people are gonna buy it okay now let's go to the next piece the next piece says here's the thing I want us to think about this okay for those of us who believe that Andy and and and look crazy people are going the opposite direction of getting safe so safe when they do something like pull unashamed off of their website I want you to think about all of the Christian hip-hop artists who are directly tied to the craic think about the KBS think about even collision records with smooth right and think about the Christian grace think about the humble bees with the propaganda is right Jackie Hill and this community that is very very tight knit for these writers do you think that there hasn't been discussion internally about the vision and the direction of race do you really think that all those artists just say oh you know whatever the craic wants to do let's just go with it do you really think that these people don't pray about what they're going to do with that do you think reach records just became what it is simply because people bought the records let's not forget that Christian hip-hop has reached the apex of its life at this point oh yeah at this yeah we owe a lot of that to the Andy many hosts the KB's the look raised the Jackie's the props the Kristen Grace right we owe a lot of that the dream junkies we owe a lot of that okay to them do we think that they did all those things just willy nilly or because they rolled the dice and lumped up or do you think that God may possibly have his hand on these people is it possible that God's favor is on right right and and to put a little more on that why do we believe that we should be so privileged well to sit on the board for each records in their decision name what's my resume say I was the MD exactly exactly exactly because I've been a fan for so long I get to tell you what direction or what words to keep on your website absolutely not here's a question this is gonna keep you from buying records because if you're not gonna buy the record simply because you don't see a name on a website I think that you are never really a true fan I think you were a trinder right and if you look at it and I've seen various videos that they've done matter of fact even with with pro they did a video on how look Ray pulled pro in and it talked about their discipleship and how they they discipled him and literally they went through weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks of Bible study well and being in tension on each other's lives and spending time together and being accountability partners for each other well if they are accountability partners what makes us as general public think that no one already made that call to them to say hey are you sure this is what you want to do yeah because we're not saying that the decision was questionable right but they have to have some sort of checking balance they have to yeah those other executives those other executives those other label heads I'm pretty sure they've had a conversation to say hey you know this is it's a little controversial but I just want to make sure but look but think about this the secular world that reach records interacts with they didn't even know what won one six mint let alone a shame right okay to them it didn't make a difference all I know is that there are these new rappers that are coming up and I like what they're saying and I like what they're doing they're on the swag show they have to they have talent they have a moral code right then all of a sudden all of a sudden the world now looks at Christian hip-hop and goes and the churches ain't like our uprising the church makes the whole mission look stupid and we just hushed our mouths right and just let them let them do what they got to do right right all they kept doing this exalting crisis these arenas that we may never get to this is why I say a lot of what happens in the church is not what was intended for the church well you know there's there's many different examples you know I don't really get into you know people doing the whipping day in church and the other boards right and hoverboards and all that kind of stuff because that to me is is is the small stuff yeah you know there's there's bigger issues that are happening in the church and ultimately you have to this is what I do I always question would Jesus come in and start flipping tables yeah that's a good question because if you attended church that you know Jesus would come in and start flipping tables something right now something's not right if you're a part of a church you're part of leadership in that church what have you you've got to and I wouldn't say have your voice heard you to make sure the voice of God is heard in that church yeah because there's there's some things that are happening in our church today that are more reflective of the world than they are the church and remember that the purpose of the church was to affect the world yeah not be affected by the world that's the basic tenant right but far too often we've come across churches that have been that have conformed two worldly ways to try to get in contact with the world yeah so to speak now there are some that would say that Christian hip-hop is is that very same thing yeah there's there's no reason the world that like Christian hip-hop like it it is just people trying to be trendy and be worldly but doing it in a Christian manner put it under the name of Jesus yeah and I don't subscribe to that reason being is because music was a part of the way of life yep the whole time Old Testament New Testament music was always there yep and they weren't specific on genre right now of course there were there were certain things like hymns and stuff like that but it doesn't mean that Christian hip-hop is evil exactly right exactly I don't I don't believe that Christian hip-hop is evil that being said I don't necessarily think every Christian hip-hop song should be done in a church either we just talked about John Gibbs we just talked about John Gibbs speaking of that that whole podcast and I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea because that wasn't hey that was that was in my opinion I was that was kind of constructive criticism and it was just more so making sure they were labeling things correctly yeah my basically was my big thing was let's call it what it is I once again I have completely reiterated John Gibbs to me is a Christian who is completely full of talent in fact I will go as far as saying he might be one of the most talented rappers and Christian hip-hop that I have heard in a long time and I love Andy I love it but there's something about John Gibbs and the way he writes I think on the on the back end on the back end there are some things on soul rebel that I were questionable now that's my personal opinion right the person I'm paying this has nothing to do with John Gibbs just had a concert last month I sent half of the Bible study from the college over there I want them to see because the dude is he's got a message I just didn't want us to label that in the same category but it comes down to you I'm talking about Christian hip-hop you got that's my only thing okay right okay that's my only thing but I'm also noticing this that was let's just take it outside the realm of Christian hip-hop if you notice there's a lot more critiquing let's take the pastors who wanted to meet with Donald Trump you remember that yes the black pastor's gonna do a Donald Trump right and Jamal Bryant and all those guys they end up getting into a tip over and they were calling each other names gonna be got it made the church look so bad right now no matter what you think about it no matter what you think about it right Jamal Bryant basic thing was you don't need one of these press it the other the other and I get it I get it but that's a conversation that you have with the brethren it's not a conversation that you have via the world exactly right but there's this internalized hate and I'll take you even a step further with this what I'm on Twitter I used to like like the last couple years I've always been about tweeting scriptures and things that got me up and sharing with me and my personal time and what they were so forth or something I don't know but I started noticing that the more I would tweet the more critiques I would get about what people believe the scripture was about and I'm noticing that these critiques that are happening this internalized hate are coming from people who are living on both sides of the fence they have not committed to a church they have not committed to church doctorate they only committed to Christ in belief not in action not in faith right and so they become theologians or they become these people who are experts in the word and they'll say stuff like you know Christ was a born the 25th of December mind you nobody ever said he was nobody said who was celebrating the actual birthday y'all said that we said we're celebrating the fact that he was born and oh okay we understand historically it was changing out of care I don't care I do not care in fact your calendar that you celebrate January through December what's the original calendar exactly you don't celebrate AD or BC you want to do you right but it's the way things are said people don't even know what AD means thank you it does not mean after death we're not going to go into a theological discussion about what that means nor was Christ born in zero BC that right but but but those are the things yeah that are holding us back and I will tell you I know a lot of where that comes from is there's this this righteous black man movement my brother yes and and it is the black man is the original man who's this being that the black man is God I'll just be that all day but there's there is this that kind of thinking and that the Holy Trinity is just a redo of Osiris and and and you're gonna say like all that and it's like okay I get it guys listen you believe what you want to believe but you can't be halfway on the fence and halfway off of it yeah and please and listen I'm not going to attack what you believe if that's what you believe go for it God bless you this is the truth that I stand on a no to be true exactly if you don't believe it yeah more power to you yeah I'm more power to you but at the end of the day don't come on my side of the fence and start telling you stuff man I kid you're not like you just said something right now I'm telling you I'm telling you that I'm telling you that I'm telling you this like was this I want to change this whole thing into another perspective that's the exact same thing why do clipper fans always pay attention to what's going on with the Lakers you touch on some sense of the ground this don't be good how many laker fans really care about what the Clippers are doing we're gonna be the first person with negative likes but you understand my premise yep my premise is this if the Lakers are the Christians I believe that we're not concerned with what's going on outside of that from that standpoint I'm not gonna I'm not gonna troll your boards no I'm not gonna troll your boards I'm not gonna point out that Taylor Swift has more banners inside of that than you do Clippers all right I'm gonna point that out but you get my point though yeah so but where this problem comes in what we're doing what tonight is we're talking about the Christians hating on the Christians and understand what I mean when I say hating on I'm not talking about true hate I hate your guts I want you to die today I'm talking about the the hip-hop term you hate play a hate right basically all you're doing is you are trying to discount the success of others for a purpose that will try to build yourself up so when I go through the the message boards of sale rapzilla or something like that everybody is super self-righteous all the time all the time everyone like there is if you ever want to find a theologian and this is for all of our listeners out there you don't want to find the a lotion go to a message board or YouTube comment paid for something that is Christian oriented because you will find theologians of the wazoo oh it's the old it's insane and the funniest part is when people have scripture battles well the other words that's not what it means it's in the original Greek Codex and Atticus I get to do it how do you ever met that dude on Facebook who all their posts are super theological and he has like 13 friends but like he's constantly trying to like validate his point by putting all these posts it could be about something like super easy and crazy but like I noticed that those people are starting that number is starting to grow like that number of like the annoying like I could do not I maybe once or twice a month I have somebody who I don't know who messes just me on Facebook asking me about a view that I have on something I posted one time hey haven't church tomorrow 930 come on through bring your family somebody was like you know the Sabbath thing Sunday right and I don't know you and I don't know you but listen I did not ask you to come and take the Sabbath service right at all at all that's another thing people don't read people are so busy trying to read between the lines so they don't read the line she reads this read the words man just read the no watch this Christ says this and a pivotal moment of ministry Christ says this by this everyone will know that you were my disciples if you love one another now watch this what I love about this is Christ continues says hey love love love love your enemy love love love love and then he goes listen if you want if you want them to know that your my disciples if you want the name tag if you want the brand if you want to wear this jersey it's not so much even about how much you love your enemy right as much as this is you guys love one another if you guys they unified it shows a unit that belongs to me and when I when I hear these people bring up all these things on the message boards on the YouTube comment page I go you can't obviously you can't be on our team and that and to be honest with you that's the one reason why I never respond to those things because if I respond to that I'm going into a place that makes me look less like a disciple and more like that because you've been made it troll man yeah listen Christians should never be social media trolls you should never be true listen don't troll there was a time in place in time I used to troll Indians it's going on like you guys go on Twitter and I would find the hashtags and a piece we use and I would go into the streams and I'll just pick a battle and I'll go at it on Twitter for the next three or four hours dumbest thing ever listen even one of the witness comes to your house and you don't necessarily believe in them what they believe you don't troll them exactly like Christ is not exalted by that Christ is not asking you to defend him he doesn't have a stance on the gospel and stand firm and ask me to go no I believe Jesus real you gotta know it and I believe it they're gonna find out eventually he's not asking you to try to make other people look stupid either at all it's the did he do that exactly dude man yo this guy pastor Whitney out of the subject is a theological out in he said something man that was so crazy he goes think about this Jesus Christ the literal incarnate God who was identified in the book of John out the gate as the word the literal word living manifestation okay was was going to church every son he was going to send every week he was going to synagogue could you imagine having to sit in synagogue listening to someone preach the word in which you are that you can naturally preach better you are the living embodiment of what they're preaching but you had to sit there and listen to it anyway right with all their mistakes right listen to Pharisees and he not once not well no interruption but only time that Jesus had to engage with them is when they came in him when they were trying to set him up for failure honestly that's what he dealt with and even when he did that he only made points that they would understand he would say things specifically he knows that you'll get this when I say this the rest of me not get this but you're gonna get this even so the disciples will come back and be like what was that all about he like no he goes they they get it they're saying right now be where be where be where the where the letter he's everywhere 11 bread he's saying all these things just kind of like just watch right those things aren't hey you should I'm saying like like those things to me is we're keeping this internal so we can have this discussion yeah I mean there's a level of correction yeah that's in love like you if you never correct then the question is do you really love that person like you know yeah obviously everyone's gonna have some air yeah you know and there's an accountability that comes with being who we are yeah as Christians and there's a difference though between calling into question accountability and being just being real callous in the way that you do it yeah as if though to yourself yeah you know and that's that's ultimately what I what I would question or would ask people to to think about before they yeah you know before they speak on on situations or what have you I mean because when I first read the the title in regards to or the whole thing in regards to to exchanging their information my thought process was okay so they removed one one six from their mission statement okay did the mission change but because the way I look about the way I look at it is I can describe myself a thousand different ways but I'm not gonna capture all of me in my description so you're still gonna have to look at me to see who I am right and to be honest with you when they started one was it's a shame it was for our generation to not be ashamed of being Christians so what do you do when the entire driver blows up everybody's on a shame now but that message is no longer necessary I'm not trying to tell the world on a shame I'm telling when Paul wrote that letter he wrote it to the church now that's that's a major point that I think it's overlooked is that one one six being unashamed was four Christians yeah it was for us we needed it wasn't to tell the world that I want to shame about being Christian we were for telling us as Christians to be unashamed we were afraid as kids to invite our friends to use services we were afraid to pour our Bibles out at random moments we were afraid to pray over our food yeah right then you have these two these two in front of our with yeah did you hear this dude come out him and him and a friend writing their car talking about listening to Jesus music right and you're going I can do that exactly be on a shame because they weren't listen they weren't yelling one one six in the very beginning they said you'll know one one six is people start paying attention they're going listen come on y'all would it yeah everyone's got tattoos everything okay so that mission is done you guys are kind of shame that's great now let's talk about some of the heavier issues that we need to worry and there are still many that put them on a Jesus count yeah you know that's so frustrating it is that it's so frustrating listen I we have some plenty of songs even in the choir in the church that didn't mention Jesus more than twice yeah you know it's not so don't have Jesus name at all period does that not mean that they're not gospel songs because I want you to chat so singing about it check Kirk singles right how many times did you hear a lot of Jesus in there you may hurt God but you hear God in two chains on whether every moment wanted that God tell about ice you could yeah everybody has a we talk about Jesus it changes things and you know it's funny is that um most of the damage that happens to Christian Christianity as a I hate you since we're but as a brand or as an emblem or as a trademark or a family crest if you will most of that stuff that happens comes from those who Jesus calls false prophets okay and these are people who are not telling truths in a biblical sense they're changing things for their own yes benefit as Christ told their New Testament has put their scriptures telling us how to deal with that we deal with false problems like that but like there's a great example we talked about correction and what that looks like right a person sprinkling Francis Chang out together did a book called erasing how you know about that yes that book was a response yeah it was a response to Rob Bell to a lot of wins right and the premise of Rob Bell's book was and I'm summing it up and I don't want to sound disrespectful when I do it but there's too much yeah basically got much too much let you go to hell with obviously in scripture it gives you examples of people who go to hell so Rob Bell's book was basically at the end of the day was saying everybody's gonna get to have a chance there's gonna go to heaven right right and so it prompted Francis Shandy give him a call and say hey man I just want to talk to you about what you wrote and you know just to share with me talk to me about what's going on with that right what do you think you're doing like what's going on and like they shared hearts for a minute I don't know what came out of that but like that's means what correction is like I'll give you another example we were dealing with homosexuality in the church and how do we address that right we gave a phone call we had a great discussion with a pastor who is a gay pastor who pastors a quote-unquote gay church okay and we sat in the room we put him on speakerphone and we just had just general conversation hearing where he's coming from trying to hear where his beliefs come from we shared our beliefs but but that kind of correction wasn't like we got a pulpit it's not a rip in this new park right okay like but we won't have a let's let's talk this out because at the end of the day you you believe in Christ you believe in Christ whatever you're doing doesn't seem to be lining up with this word that we know to be true so let's discuss that because at the heart of the matter is you love Christ how you're representing him is how we're trying to address that and you won't change it till you see it yeah I mean like I just I don't get where Christians believe that ripping people publicly is how we get our point across with the heart of Christ man I just don't get it like you can have a drag out go ahead and have a drag out on private right but this public declaration about and let me tell you something I am the number one offender I used to tear down Joel Olstine at least once a Tuesday yeah in my Bible easy target easy target easy target and so you sit down you start going okay all right okay a lot of people following him because a lot of people following him and at the end of the day let's let me just ask this question does he love God does he believe in Jesus Christ is this now how he presents his message I have plenty of disagreements with okay but man is he really is he detriment right you know I mean so I had to pull off of that tree I don't listen if I ever had a chance of talking to Joel's Dean I would ask ask a million questions about what he does right but at the end of the day me going publicly and tearing this dude down doesn't help Christianity now he got up there I was like Jesus thank God and all this crazy stuff now I'm coming to say listen that dude is that's not that's not the truth right that's not true and here's a scripture that support when I'm saying yet and yet and I will tell that to my flock I wouldn't go on a public rant to people who don't care about it I will work thousand followers on Twitter maybe 50% of them are Christian now what this so Jaziel oh yeah UK rapper Christian rapper Christian rapper the nounces or renounces his Christian faith I want to say this happened late December what else we call it is like right before Christmas yeah I struggled with that because I had his mixed tape and thoroughly enjoyed his music there was some doctrinal things in his music where I was like okay I've always been one where I can you know I need to meet these about the bones judge of any Christian rapper and the reason why I do that is just because when I'm listening to Christian rap I have to remember that most of these people either grew up in a church or have just met Christ yeah and a lot of times there's a doctrinal issue or there's not a serious issue but there's different denominations and people are brought up in different ways and they believe different things and you know that's just Christianity in general so there may be some things that they say they're just like oh all right so when he walked away from Christianity I was impressed by the amount of comments that were let's pray for it feel grace yes yeah I was impressed with that yeah I feel like if he had a said or the title of the the article said UK rapper Jaziel has baby out of wedlock it would have been so judgmental done deal right like so judgment I can't believe it this is why Christian rap should not exist in you know what have you but instead instead there was a lot of grace offered yeah there was a lot of we need to pray for him yeah now when you read his letter his letter about him renouncing his Christian faith it was a bit frustrating reading his letter because he talked about for 20 years he had been a believer and what it all boiled down to was people and he allowed people to push him out of his faith and that bothers me not because he was weak enough to do that so to speak right but because people have that much power within the organism of Christianity to push people away I would pray that each person would be able to to the me yep eat the meat spit out the bones understand that every person that you are fellow shipping with is a human being they're going to make errors are going to do things that are gonna make you mad they're gonna do this gonna do that and in fellowship there are going to be differences of opinion there are going to be arguments there are going to be things that are going to happen offenses will come but it's how you deal with those that separates you from the whole process and magic that tells you not to deal with that God he said something crazy he goes I like your Christ I don't like your Christians exactly your Christians are so unlike your Christ yeah right Christians got mad about their coming Christians know he's well good truth that is should be sober Martin Boober my sister I'm gonna go fishing point Martin Boober had made a statement years way back he said if Messiah has come where are Messiah's people yes which is basically that same thing yeah if the Messiah has come where are his people why are people acting like him and and and what should really do is this is so what I love about Jesus Jesus I come out to bring peace but a sword right he talks about this splitting this division right he's talking about these goats and these sheep he's talking about this weeks and tears like there's always this like clear separation and he always says that God says I'm gonna be want to be separated I'm gonna be one me I'm gonna be the one Jesus says I'm gonna be the one the idea is the more Christ like that we are right the more of a division it should set right but what's crazy is what's crazy is that when the church begins no longer to look like Christ all lines are blurred right all lines are right right and we hold our our basic tenets of truth to be loving to be kind filled with grace to do those things as crazy as I look to the world as much as it might get us persecuted and at least draws a line where people can go that is what a Christian should look like right but for God to be able to make a statement like that means he goes I know what your Christ did what he stands for what he stood for and regardless of belief in his faith or not I know what he's about but everybody who claims to be with him seems to be the polar opposite of what I'm seeing and that's what the outside looks like we really don't have time to hate on one another we really need temperature exactly and here's what a struggle comes in with with things like what Jaha Ziyo did because you have a certain amount of Christians that are like well then he was never Christian because one cannot you know once you're safe you're always safe there's no you know what's a John 10 30 27 through 30 my sheep here my voice what have you no one can snatch them out of my hand yeah now there's there's that part and then there's those that are just like you know well he's an atheist or what have you or or does that discount all his music from four and it goes to show you in my opinion it goes to show you that that first of all God can do and can use anyone any but saved or not he can still use you had 12 and one mistake and he still knew exactly as I said that Jews didn't go around doing miracles and disciples when I did it right and never said that you to stay back like you understand like the conversation about salvation and on salvation is irrelevant because we don't make that determination correct okay now with that being said I think the response to that that kind of situation is let's let's love now let's go let's go with your friends though let's say Andy Minio never got married has a kid out of Weblock at the height of his career what do you believe the church's response would have been very judgmental okay very judgmental there probably would have been some grace to those who have been through the same thing they know you know you get some grace and what I get it and this is what I take to find those that have been through the same thing are quicker to extend the hand of grace yeah because they remember what it was like what it was like and the same they failed yeah because you know in the 90s if a young lady got pregnant she could be in the choir she had to sit down that's the truth that move out of state go to her aunt out from the farm come back to sit down yep because ultimately she ashamed her family yeah now biblical times was way worse than that goodbye you know it was way worse than that but we have we have made so much sin status quote then it's acceptable even in the church yeah it's it is and it's not that the church needs to be judgmental we're we're extremely well we're extremely this person to come extremely where if somebody does that we go to the complete opposite and destroy them or go the other and it is love and never happened there's no process of rehabilitation right there's no one of the greatest things I saw me individuals in the church too many like it's not unified yeah one of the things I saw that our church that was revolutionary for me but I first got there one of our one of the college kids who's very active leader in the church she was a great wonderful one I think me and Raven had Raven I had just started dating what does that she she had sex got pregnant right first thing she did was she came to the praise team she was the pastor's once the praise team individually and said hey listen I fell I slept with the guy you know it was one type thing but now I'm pregnant I am keeping the baby but I this what she says she goes I'm going to take some time and sit myself down so I can emotionally heal because she was traumatized she didn't know what to do she was always a good girl yet she made a bad choice and this happened right the way that the church loved on her was ridiculous when I say like when I say love on her I mean it was like the women got around her built her back up again walked her through with that process and the process of that happening and the process of her going through that she meets her husband right her husband sees this woman and goes oh my god wow that's the woman and God that I want to marry Wow right they get together get married listen when I tell you amazing to watch that happen I go that's the way the church really should be right now I'm not saying everyone who is pregnant what I should get married you need to lead to some random dude who wants to do you know they had a relationship all night what I'm saying is that the amount of love that she was getting it began to create an or an essence about her that wasn't just attractive but it revealed the true heart of her that literally beckons to her husband right that's the kind of reconciliation that we should have with those who fall right what do you think the church would have done if David was their pastor and he had a bathsheba moment hmm yeah that's a bad sheba moment right then his own children mm-hmm with rape inside the house and what do we do to him he would never preach again right side the local church and we're talking about David we use his songs for most of our praise and worship so yeah oh yeah because we look at the good side of the whole story in context we don't hold life in context we can see it and you're talking about medical times we're God which striking people down yep for seemingly a lot less so my question is if God shows that kind of grace who are we yeah even the new testament people came in lying about how much money they had yeah in the Holy Spirit struck them down right so so it's obviously God's hand has not changed from Old Testament to New Testament right but there's a certain amount of grace that happens behind closed doors that we don't know about right now we should be extending behind closed doors before we probably throw somebody to the wolves you see what I'm saying yeah so I don't know he's a scary part I pulled up a jazz yo space with pages yes he's he's posting a lot about ancestors okay so he's he's going into the Egyptians you know all that stuff right and I'm finding I'm finding that there's a lot of there's a lot of conversation there's a lot of conversation in the black community first of all there's there's the there's a conversation about the difference between religion and Jesus right wow and I don't think that most of the western world understands that Christianity is not a religion yeah they don't get that Christianity is the anti-religion as a matter of fact the whole purpose for Jesus coming was to end religion and to move into grace in personal relationship which is why in James says the only religion that God really respects is caring for the orphans and widows he moves it completely away from his idea of earning yourself exactly goes it's completely about the other person exactly yeah the most churches today that's what's being taught yeah you got to do this you know you got to do that most of my parents have been wrong and there's there's a huge struggle in most churches mainly the the denominational churches where you have tradition yeah and you have that you you go to these churches and you're like okay there is there a balance between religion tradition and how much Jesus is there and cultural tradition let's not let's not get it let's not get it mixed up yeah some of it is just strictly cultural yeah strictly cultural that happened to bleed into the church because that's what the culture meant yeah and the tradition was more because that's the only state they've been that most of us had very interesting and I pray that one of the things that Roger and I Roger Melvin my dear friends and I are fine I'm doing is taking our kids out of the country he just took his son to Japan the Sun is his son is as part Japanese as we teach we're doing this thing we're taking our sons overseas so that they can experience not just the roots but experience of his life is interesting with Germany last year in September and had a chance to worship in Essling with with Pastor H and his wife and it was so crazy because the culture out there is this listen to some of the things that are so different there you're talking about traditions right the entire country really most of the western is Europe is split between Protestant Catholic okay all this apostolic and coded but it doesn't matter so every time we hear people go we have international ministry it means nothing to in that in that world right number one their tides come out of their check like taxes the entire country pays for the church not just the people who attend but majority of the people in your go to church on Sunday everything on Sundays shut all the way down when I say everything I mean everything it's a ghost and okay not only that like you're you don't pay for your funeral you're already gonna be buried at the church it's part of your taxes that pay for that because the church is so tied right to that government right in fact the church is always the way we treat town hall and in police stations that's what they ask on the tree the church right so your Protestant church is the center of town every and just about every major town right when you go and you see that right you go wow this is great God is being exalted except when we went to pastor H's church and East church pastor church they are being persecuted by the church for leading tradition and what do I mean by that they believe in the gifts of spirit they believe in and in evangelism they completely never move themselves from the Protestant Catholicism they have placed themselves in this only a mega church for them in Europe is no more than 50 people well a mega church so we're going to their church and they're considered a church with a little less than 50 people and I'm saying they're praising God they're going for it their persecution was so deep at one point they had to go into the woods to have church well they take all the chairs and everything into the woods to have a church right so you see that and you come back home and you go okay and choir day what doesn't matter right they're moving themselves from tradition that stems to a hundred years prior that is literally a staple of their government right they don't get listen all that tax money and all that stuff they don't get to partake in that because they've established our own church right you talk about those things right you say like oh okay so when you're inside the church and we start arguing about annual choir days we start arguing about pastoral payroll we start arguing about all these simple things it it's internalized hate that gets us away from the overall brunt of what's happening and if we had a worldwide view to understand what's really going on I think it would I think me personally I think it would change the way we treat each other over here when you realize on global scale what we're going through as Christians it's completely different completely different completely different you know and I just I encourage anybody if you guys listen to this you need to go overseas at least one time in your life and experience what the local church is going through on the other side see what the body of price is dealing with and it will completely change the way you deal with people here completely yeah yeah that's me no no that's that's small rant it's actually been an hour already isn't that crazy wow yeah man time flies real time flies listen oh Christian hate so this is once again this has been another podcast but I want to let you guys know that 2016 is a big year for us he has great features that are coming up this year so you please please please subscribe to our podcast we have heard your requests we're trying to keep it under an hour even though we're hitting about an hour right now but we're trying we're trying our hardest to give you guys content that you're gonna love and eventually we're gonna actually get onto the YouTube channel and start having these podcasts live on YouTube so it's gonna be great it's a lot of stuff land and I think Jason and I are personally super excited about what's to come so hugely excited usually excited ain't no hating on that cook anyway this is a bit divine this is Jason yep twice born radio they ain't had a privilege thanks for twice more twice more twice more twice more twice