Coma

Diane, it's 8.45 p.m. Welcome to another episode of Twin Peaks Peaks. We're going to be talking about the second episode of season 2, A.K. Coma.

What's your name? My name's Ashley. My name's Matthew. If you can't tell, I'm a stickler for convention.

Hey. And while being exactly that, I'm going to be a stickler and say, hey, Ashley, do you have any news about the Twin Peaks revival series? That's usually how we start the show. It is how we usually start the show.

And the only news is that David Lynch and a company have been spotted in North Bend, Washington, where they're apparently slated to be filming for the next six weeks. Oh, really? You say? That's only about a three-hour drive from here.

This is true. Now, I saw that there were some needy, spoilery things that were photographed. But I saw that, at the very least, they are changing the sign for what served as the double R diner in Twin Peaks, now known as Tweeds Cafe. They are sort of rolling back that sign such that they can make it a double R.

And I am so excited. Just seeing the photos of just this guy and a cherry picker, like kind of tearing up this diner sign such that they can have it served as the exterior. It seems like they're not going to do interiors in the cabinet in the diner. But just them fixing the sign, it made me so excited.

So yeah, maybe we should make a visit up there? Maybe. But did you see the other news out of North Bend this week? No.

Or maybe I did? I don't know. Sherlyn Fenn has indicated that, well, her exact words are that she will be involved regardless of the immense difficulties, which makes it sound like her involvement has not yet been finalized. That's not quite news out of North Bend.

I did hear about that. I also saw that Sherlyn Fenn bleached her hair. I did. I saw that.

Which, who knows if that has anything to do with being in the show or not? But maybe that's what she meant by immense difficulties, if they were just like, Sherlyn, you can be in the show, but we would really like it if you bleached your hair. And she's like, I have a sensitive scalp. And that's the immense difficulties.

And that is a real concern. Let me tell you. I'm not trying to say that as like, oh, Sherlyn, you're being dramatic. Like, I have many friends who have bleached their hair.

It is a harrowing process. I'm just saying the actual weight of the situation can be kind of lost over Twitter. So maybe everything's fine. And maybe Audrey will reappear in some way, shape, or form in the revival.

Or at least a character played by Sherlyn Fenn. At this point, we already have Maddie Ferguson in the show. We don't really need any character to play or any actor to play the same character rather in the show. So I just hope that they all come back in some way, shape or form.

True. Alright, so moving along to this episode. Oh, do you want to talk about the episode or do you want to talk about the food that I prepared for us? Okay, I just want to point out that I made a food proposal and then you told me that you were going to handle it and I had no idea what was going to happen.

I don't know how you had no idea what I was going to pick for the damn fine food segment this week after watching this episode because it's pretty clear there's only one choice. And that choice is creamed corn. I actually kind of thought you were going to make like a smoked cheese pig. Oh, I'm flattered that you think I could do that?

But no, I bought a can of creamed corn and put it on the stove for a couple minutes and heated it up. Let's get some good bowls down here. Mmm, I haven't yet. You've been kind of snacking on this actually since before we started the podcast, which I was somewhat shocked by it, but this is my first bite of creamed corn and what has to be like over ten years.

Mmm. Oh, lovely. Mmm. Oh, it reminds me of my grandfather's house, like legitimately, but also like for humorous effect, I'm saying that.

Wow, dual purposes. Alright. Wow. Let's get one more bite in me before I move on.

Mmm. Oh, that's good podcast material. Alright. Let's save our remarks to the end.

Mmm. Well, we still have a lot of cream corn left in both of our bowls. I'm going to be honest with the listeners. It's not like I like build out a small portion.

Now, just we each have half a candy. And it's only going to get colder and probably more unpleasant as time goes on. So we're also in the spirit of last week's episode when the ginger beer was such a revelation. Such a hit.

I got us a different brand of ginger beer called Krabby's. This is actually just a ginger beer podcast now? Yeah, it's just a ginger beer podcast. And the only other thing we like to talk about is Twin Peaks.

Ooh, that's good. That's good with a lime in it. You put lime in this, which is an interesting choice. Well, it's recommended on the bottle, and I have to say I like it a lot.

What's the ABB on this? What's the ABB on this? I don't care. It is Labor Day as we're recording this.

It's 4.8% alcohol by volume. That's totally fine. I am not yet greased up enough to go to bed happy about the weekend and ready to go to work again tomorrow. So this ginger beer is here for me.

Alright, let's talk about coma. Second episode of season 2. Alright, so we open on yet another record scene at the satellite FBI headquarters in the Great Northern. Yep.

And I actually have a lingering question from last week. Why the pinky ring? Pinky? Why would you?

Like you are a man who wears clothes. I'm going to direct this male fashion question to you. Why would you ever wear a pinky ring? First I want to say thank you for recognizing that I am not a man who does not wear clothes.

I cannot claim nor would I claim to be a nudist. So thank you for acknowledging that. Second, is this bad? I didn't even realize, are you 100% certain that Cooper's ring was a pinky ring?

It was 100% a pinky ring. I remember watching it and being like Cooper is wearing a pinky ring? And then when he like gestures to show Albert this week, he's clearly gesturing to his pinky finger. Okay, okay.

Why would one choose to wear a pinky ring? Is that like a thing in men's fashion that I as a woman wouldn't be aware of? I do not think so. Like unless you're little Richard and spontaneously the rest of all of your rings have disappeared, but for your pinky rings, I don't think pinky rings on their own are a thing.

But I might be wrong. There might be some kind of cultural significance to this that's particular to the late 80s that we don't know about. But I guess men also don't wear rings on their other fingers really. Sure.

Like I think it would be weird to wear a ring on my index or middle finger period. And then, you know, what do you call that finger that the wedding ring goes on? The ring finger. Right.

So that one's like a clear candidate, but also it like implies some things most of the time. So is the pinky the only casual finger for rings for men? Well, it's really hard to find a thumb size ring, you know. So...

Thumb rings are also a really peculiar choice, but... Anyway, I guess maybe that's it. Maybe we've cracked this case because there's no other finger that a man can wear a ring on. But...

Were they just like, well, were they just like in the process of writing this like, we need to take a piece of jewelry, but who can't wear a wedding ring? Therefore... I'm already gonna, I guess, jump around a bit and bring up that we watched Blue Velvet this past week. We went to a theater and we watched Blue Velvet.

And I've seen the movie once before, but I watched it on Netflix on like a smaller screen. And I didn't notice until this watch that Jeffrey, is that his name? Jeffrey Beaumont? Yep.

Jeffrey Beaumont has just one earring. And that sounds out. And I know that there's... Is it also the left ear too?

It's like the gate ear. That's what I was gonna say. Is it the ear that implies something about your sexuality or not? I wasn't sure.

I didn't look it up. I didn't bother. You can look it up right now. I'm like relatively certain it's the gate.

What a great start to the spot cast is that we're just like, huh, is the Blue Velvet earring on the left ear? Does that mean like you like guys? Also, why do you guys wear pinky rings? This is a high quality analysis.

No, no, no, no. Okay, the right one is the gate one. Okay, that's... You would be asking which ear is the gate ear?

Also, Y'all can answer this a totally different podcast. So let's stay in our lane. Okay, one... We might talk about Blue Velvet more later on in the show, but I'll say this.

Jeffrey Beaumont having one earring and wearing it purposefully in the quote unquote straight ear, let's say. Makes total sense. It's like a character choice. Like it fits with the rest of how that character is established.

I like it. And that's for the pinky ring thing. I'm sorry, Ashley. I don't know.

I didn't even notice it. I'm kind of sharp decline now that it's getting cold. Yeah, should I give it another go? Yeah, I think you're going to see a sharp decline in quality.

Mmm. Do you know the cost of each of our portions, Ashley? Tell me since you got the shopping this week. Um, 48 and a half cents.

Because it was 99 cents. Wait, is that how... is that math right? Didn't you major in econ?

That would be 49 and a half, sorry, my bad. Also, I majored in econ, but that's like saying I majored in math. I mostly worked with letters, okay? No numbers in our equations.

I assume that you did math at some point, but... I'm not going to do... I'm not about to do high level math, like dividing 99 by 2, while I'm recording our Twin Peaks podcast. Let's talk about the other thing that sticks out like a sore thumb in opening scene this episode.

We're just a barbershop quartet, chilling in the Great Northern. Yes. But I like to think that that's like a constant feature. Like every Sunday branch, there's a barbershop quartet.

I like that theory. If all the fan theories we've talked about, and all of your fan theories, I like that one the most. Um... Why are you such a hater?

I'm not a hater. I actually have genuinely tickled by the thought of like the Sunday Breakfast service at the Great Northern. It's like the secular option in Twin Peaks. If you don't go to church in Twin Peaks, you go to breakfast in the Great Northern and you just get cruined to by four of the velvet voiced gentlemen of Twin Peaks.

Sounds fine to me. In fact, there you go. There's a spin-off show right there after the successful Showtime revival. They can have a show that's a spin-off that's just about the Twin Peaks barbershop quartet.

And all the conversations they over here. Yeah, all of them. They know who's cheating on who in this town. Let me tell you that.

Yeah. We should just slip that in our back pocket to talk to David about when we see him this upcoming weekend. Don't get my hopes up, Ashley, okay? If we go to where they're filming and we don't see David Lynch in Snap and Pick with him, I'll probably be crushed.

And considering that we're going to document this trip in some way or another, should we take it, the end of it, the end of said document will just be me like really sad if we don't. And people will see that. So let's play it cool. Now, I'm kind of first seeing all this important stuff.

Like, okay, Albert's there. Miguel Ferrer, my favorite, has a moment where he asks Cooper how he's doing, which is just like, they're friends. He cares. Actually, wait.

Do you want to hear something funny? Is this funny about Albert, about Miguel? This is just jumping ahead to a comment someone made on the use net boards. Okay.

Okay. So someone was actually like very upset and felt that it was very out of character that Sheriff Truman did not ask Cooper how he was doing after being shot. Well, Cooper doesn't even show up until like a couple minutes in this episode. Whatever.

People just want to complain about anything. And apparently they wanted to complain about anything even in 1990 on the internet. So whatever. Albert cares about his friend Cooper and then Albert drops a bomb and we get our first mention of Cooper's ex-partner, Windham Earl, who has apparently skipped out of the Looney bin.

That's all we get. That's all we get to set is just a little bit to say like, hey, something. And those tracks are happening and it involves a man named Windham Earl. Yeah.

That's all we get. Land those tracks for those 20 episodes they have yet to produce. They're just like, all right, we had our cool season two premiere and now it's time to start trying to plot out 22 episodes of this thing. Yeah.

That's a lot of work for them. Yeah, especially compared to season one which had eight episodes. You kind of see why things happen the way they did when you consider that. You haven't even seen the way things happen yet, Ashley.

I'm aware. You frequently remind me. Yes. Also, are you part of the happy generation?

Yeah, I've heard of it. I don't know. I don't feel like I am. Neither do I.

Moving on. Where do we want to move on to? We can skip all over the episode if we want. We could talk about the Dreamins and the fact that they are why we are eating this green corn that is steadily getting worse.

Yeah, I was going to jump ahead to that. Okay. Mmm. All right.

How's that holding up? We're like, what? 15 minutes in? How's it holding up?

It is like just pure nutrient goop. I love it. This is, I hope this is a first for podcasting history. A cream corn centric episode.

Any podcast. Okay. It's not great. I'm not going to start buying cream corn to eat on the daily.

But why is she so upset about the cream corn? It's not that bad. Okay. I mean, without saying a lot on this subject.

Does this come into the last half of season two? What? All right. We're going to go to the first half of the season.

Let's talk about the fact that the grandson of Mrs. Tremont. Is played by the one and only. Austin Jack Lynch, one of David Lynch's sons.

And I was looking at this little boy sitting in the chair on this episode or on this viewing of this episode and I was like, that boy looks a lot like David Lynch. Like, great casting. And then I finally, you know, did the legwork after three or four times watching the show. And I was like, oh shit.

Okay. That explains it. It's a son. No shit.

And he is studying magic. Yes. Telekinetic variety. Apparently of being able to perfectly cup cream corn in your hand without it leaking out variety There's got to be some Hollywood magic going into that where it's like they put like some plastic down in his hands or something Or there's like a hidden bowl.

I don't know they could have just drained the can of cream corn, but well then it wouldn't be creamed corn Anyway, also Mrs. Freeman is played by Francis Bay who finally enough plays Jeffrey Vomont's aunt in blue velvet So it just so happens that this week it was playing a theater near us and then the episode where she's introduced So oh yeah, oh spooky coincidence, and she's great in both roles. I love the the How about this the concerned yet silly on in in blue velvet and yeah? Also, not a great episode for Donna in terms of being cool Donna like in general like well, okay There are some like kind of poignant lines She literally sits down and says Donna sits down and says to Mrs.

Freeman that she is taking Laura Palmer's place in the meals on Wheels program which further proves my theory that she's single like female Laura, okay, all right I also thought that so the juxtaposition of like this child that clearly looks like David Lynch and happens to be David Lynch's son Who practices magic and like silly like creamed corn gag aside? I feel like there was clearly something going on there and some kind of parallel being drawn between David Lynch like the role of the director and Kind of like mysticism or magic or let's be clear David did also direct this episode episode of the series directed so for out of Like ten or let ten this is ten episodes in so He didn't write this episode though. He did not it was written by Harley Payton Yeah, we may know from friends with benefits, which is the movie with Mila Kunis and Justin Timberlake not the movie Yeah, not only Portland and Ash and Kutcher Could you This is not the purview of this podcast, but let's take a side part here for a moment. Mm-hmm.

Could you imagine a More perfect pairing of pairings such that you would totally confuse those two movies Like I feel like the pairing of Ash and Kutcher plus Natalie Portman is just as like predictable yet forgettable as the pairing of Justin Timberlake And Mila Kunis such that you could never ever be expected even as a pop culture literate person to ever truly like give a shit about Which movie was which and even like who slept with who in the different movies? Like I could watch a movie where Justin Timberlake sleeps with Natalie Portman, and there's just like oh, but it's not a relationship But is it do they want these like that's also and like also Ash and Kutcher and Mila Kunis they were in that study show together And wait those movies were released the same year that Mila Kunis and Natalie Portman were both in Black Swan Really? That was the weirder thing. Oh, so you're saying that we need to have a podcast where we analyze this triangle of movies existing in Some kind of metaverse got it.

Yes. Thanks for that is what I say part of my ongoing, you know fan theories continuum So, but yeah, I didn't really know what exactly to make of the Korean corn gag Like I don't have unified thesis to present. I don't have points to back it up really other than the fact that like David Lynch's son who is clearly like made up to like more like David Lynch than he does and he's wearing a suit He just looks very out of place and he's performing magic Yes, this is all very well and good. I will say that you have not seen the last of cream corn.

Okay, okay All right, all right spoiler free podcast except for saying that I wouldn't have made us eat this if I didn't think it would really Be a disservice to us doing a show about this series If we didn't include it on a fruit segment like if we didn't do it this episode Which is the time to do it and just get it out of the way we'd have to do it later. Okay, so I'm gonna take another bite right now It is like someone It is like someone aged me 90 years And I'm just like put in the position where all of my food is exactly as like Flavorless but you know a very unfortunate way texture rich has this food is It goes from sloppy to crunchy in record time On did you catch the French the French? Yeah? Oh, yes.

He speaks to these people French, but I didn't know what it was because I don't Lynch will interest speaking some French. There is some discussion on the using that words about what exactly he said, but it sounds like Jai Saluteur which is like I'm a solitary soul, but some people also think that he was saying Ile un ome salitir, which would be like he is a solitary man referring to Harold Smith Okay, but like listening to it and like I had read these discussions before I listened to the episode It really sounds like jai un ome salitir. Okay, okay, so David Lynch or little Lynch is a solitary soul We're gonna revisit this now Before we leave though, we're talking the shit about cream corn and we're talking theories about cream corn and we're talking theories about Austin Lynch But we can't imagine a hospital food I just don't want to let that kill and notice like after my weird tangent last week where I was like I think sure are focusing on this hospital food they bring it up again And I didn't remember that when I watched last week's episode So I just have to say like there's something going on like this is another people in directed episode like Hospital food it's a thing. It's a thing that is thematic and somewhere another I just don't have any better thoughts on it this week Well, I mean the cream corn is also like pretty unappealing and like this is really mom doesn't want it And it doesn't look good and it probably came from a can with like you're just saying that cuz we ate it now I think it looks fine on screen Gosh Can we just say You know what I've about Donna.

She's like a very nice girl and then what and then she just you know Donna seems like a very nice girl. That's that's my closing one. All right. I agree with the three months.

I'm saying Gosh, I hate to keep pulling it in a chronological order but Right from there we go to the hospital where Cooper and Truman are going to finally talk to run at Pulaski and This is a moment that again slipped my memory But now I see it this time. I'm just like this is what makes this show great is them adjusting the little stools So they can sit down and talk around it. That's such like a David Lynch moment though. It's really good It's very it's very him.

It's it is one of those things. It's like I feel like you know a very surface level Kind of like yeah, you're a fan, but you like haven't like let this show sit and stew with you Way of looking at pieces just like there's this mystery and there's all these weird characters and it kind of like and then you're like Your appreciation stops there, but I really appreciate when this show takes like two minutes almost or something like that to just watch Harry and Cooper who is still recovering from his gun shot wounds trying to adjust these chairs It is which are like exceedingly complicated for chairs Mm-hmm and I love that like like the scene was either improv doubt brilliantly or it was scripted out brilliantly either way because For Harry to be looking under the stool to like try and find the instructions like that's his that's his thought process He's not just like we got this or like their chairs come on. He's like well We can't we didn't feed us out on the first try. Let's see if their instructions take over here like And then at the same time Kyle is totally selling like this still like two days after having been shot So he's like wheezing and really is getting stool down.

I love love love this scene That's what I have to say about it great. Do you have anything to say about it? I mean there's a stuff that happens Which is a if we are to believe Ron has just visceral reactions to these like please sketches What do Leo is not the man we're looking for Bob Bob is the man we're looking for And that out shit if you didn't draw attention to it. No one would care People listening oh god shit.

All right. That was that about 28 minutes. It was a red-haired Jesus, okay But but we kind of rule out Leo as a suspect with also in the hospital in a coma Wakes from a coma Leo goes into a coma Leo also has this huge fucking mirror pointed at him I don't really get the idea behind that not really no Mmm not queen corn so close to being done with it. Mmm.

Let's talk about Shelly and Bobby and Leo's condition. Oh, yeah, so Bobby says he phones the disability services office in Twin Peaks, Washington or wherever the nearest district is Mmm more can core my mouth and Bobby says that they'll be able to get five thousand dollars a month on disability for Leo Which I don't know if that's like if America used to be better about that kind of thing But I don't I've never like grown up with the assumption that people who got disability for anything of that nature We're actually like supported well enough that two teenagers would be like or like a teenager in someone in early 20s would be like Yeah, we couldn't like potentially scam off of this. Yeah I don't think that that's a thing. I think that that might be a little bit of a overshot but Anyway, the important point is sort of that Shelly doesn't want Leo in the house, but Bobby wants this Stipe end that Leo would be getting from disability services if he were to continue to live at home with Shelly.

Yeah Um And Bobby's point being just like he's awful Why not take advantage of him? I know it's like uncomfortable to have this abuser in the house, but he's he's Catatonic um All of a sudden what was just like what was a very like charged and um, you know, potentially violent love triangle has become a really weird story of uh scamming and like Questions about like how much humanity is encapsulated in someone when they're in a coma Like do you really feel uncomfortable with having them in the house if they're like not conscious and is it okay to be taking their money? If they were an awful person while they were conscious like well It's like I got real complicated. I think that the actually the interesting question that storyline really brings up is like how we conceive of disability Specifically because I think the show sort of treats Leo's condition as um Vindiction for like him being a bad person and it's sort of like righteous that Shelly and Bobby Um kind of have this power over him now that he's in a vegetative state Um, and it feels sort of poetic, you know poetic justice in the way it's presented But I think it raises a lot of questions about how we think about disability and like ability in general Um, I think this show doesn't come out swinging in favor of Shelly and Bobby doing this I think I think there's there's plenty of leeway left that it's not just like trying to to Heard you into one lane of being like rah-rah like yeah, Leo got it.

They're definitely it definitely keeps it up for a while um I don't know. There's there's a scene I'm thinking of that comes later. It's like You know kind of iconic and I personally still like it, but I think it is much emphasizes like that note of Leo kind of got what was coming to him. He's a very bad man as it does say like as it does to say Shelly and Bobby are in the wrong here as well Um, but we'll get to that when we get to that This episode develops that they're going to go ahead with this plan basically and that in itself is um enough fodder for discussion I think I think that uh at this stage like Shelly should absolutely be like reluctant and she'll like I find it weird that she's not more like opposed to the idea at first Like not just like are you fucking kidding me?

Like he tried to murder you with an axe Bobby like if he comes to there's no chance that your skin's not gonna be like on the line Um, let alone mine like and Bobby's not really known for thinking through. Yeah, not really unfortunately Um Can I read you a quote my favorite quote of the episode? Oh, I mean you should absolutely do that. Okay.

Are you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. I just ate like a whole bowl of cream corn. What am I not ready for now?

Oh wait, sorry. I have a couple bites left. I'll I'll chew while you say this book. Okay When the Tacoma sperm bank was looking for donors naturally I applied it's my civic duty and I like whales a routine physical examination revealed that I'm sterile Sure, I thought it meant I didn't have to take a bath, but the doctors told me the truth They told me I can't have babies Poor Andy This is another thing where the the situation is on turn on its head I think like the Bobby Shelley Leo situation is immediately like kind of thrown into a different mode But like that's obvious because we shot in the coma Um, but with this one revelation Andy and Lucy's drama becomes that much more complicated because Lucy can't just be like upset with Andy And Andy's like kind of poor handling the situation and he is confused because he can't he can't have babies and he loves whales And that might be sneaking into his thoughts every now and then kind of interfering with things No, um, I also want to point out like Tacoma is pretty far from the borders of Canada and Idaho respectively So he had to travel quite some distance to make this donation.

Yeah, well, I mean Part of me wonders. I mean, Josie's off in Seattle right now supposedly right so I feel like you know as idyllic and totally not creepy murder bill twin peaks is for their local residents They probably get out of fair amount, right? So, you know, maybe maybe Andy was taking a trip to the big city and dropping off some sperm while he's there Well taking a trip to the big city making a detour to Tacoma. You don't know this actually But as someone who grew up in the Seattle suburbs.

I can't claim to have grown up in Seattle. I have my hand in the air Doesn't count. Oh, okay. Sorry.

Let me switch green cans. I was not raised in Seattle right hand in the air Okay, hand to god, but I can still say hey Tacoma though. No Uh-uh, so that's pretty out of the way regardless, but also like just lame so not that anyone would go on their way Tacoma stinks About that anyone would like it's not Kent. Okay.

All right, Washington listeners. I know that But if you're from Tacoma, you shouldn't be proud about anything anyway Tacoma is awful and you shouldn't go on your way to go there Uh, if we take a trip to Washington, we will speed through Tacoma as fast as possible. Let me tell you I mean you won't be driving because you can't drive Well, I'll just be like shouting you like Ashley drive faster Actually pass that car. We need to get out to coma real quick You don't want to get caught here at the sperm bank stay tuned for an instagram of Matt stranded in Tacoma save the whales Anyway, that's our update on the Indian Lucy this week.

Hit on my thoughts on Tacoma Um, yeah, that's really all that you need to know about that scene frankly Yeah, there's not a lot of subtext. I love I love I love that the scene ends with the great like the very well paced like inching towards Andy that Lucy does just to just rip off the tape and then close the shot again Um And the tape the tape that Andy is covered with it's like almost too much of a gag at the couple of yeah I was gonna say I feel like um and I don't I can't really say if this is just Andy's character or something That the episode of as a whole is doing but it's going if leaning a little harder on the physical comedy Then I think the show usually does I I don't know if I noticed it meaning harder on that but I know that when I was watching that scene I was thinking if this was just like an extended shot of Andy like struggling in this tape like I'd be like okay I get it but what I really love is Don Davis major Briggs just watching not doing anything just watching Just watching this happen and He's like the curiosity on his face. I love it a lot and that actually then we get the scene with Major Briggs and the log lady. Can we talk about how major Briggs is not only a real homie, but he is working on some ex-wild shit He is Defo Defo in some some deep deep government computer conspiracy.

Excuse me some government conspiracy shit. Yeah Um I love his uh his total openness to to what the log lady has to say he's like can't hear the log and she's like it's cool man I will interpret Because he's like he's he's down he's down to receive this log lady. He's on the same like wavelength of the astral plane as Sarah Palmer Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Um again like it's sneakily Over over the jerry's of the world and the andes of the world Um, I think major Briggs is like sneaking in and becoming one of my new favorite characters of the whole show Um on this watch through But it's got a message to deliver it. Let's let's talk about that later though. Oh, let's leave that for the end proper We can skip around whatever we want, but let's let's do that before using that stuff Okay, let's talk about the scene where we open on Ben Horan with a glass of red wine Kind of not concerned about his daughter, but making this call into the police about how she's missing Oh, so this so like the second to last thing we see on list No, well, he makes that call a Catholic through the episode Mmm. No, no, it's it's much closer to the end.

I don't know when you watch this how fresh it doesn't remember But it's like pretty like an hour ago. It's pretty close to the end Um because we're skipping over the other Ben Horan scene if we talk about this now with the smoked pig Well, I was just gonna skip that but Oh the smoked pig and the ledger conversation. It's so great. You were gonna take it away.

Take it away You were not at all interested by that scene. Well, we already talked about the smoke pigs So that was really We brought it up like very briefly and again flatter You think that I could somehow wizard a smoked pig smoked cheese pig out of like thin air and also then like have a vegan option for you Well, not but no such luck Um the ledger scene like this is how we're advancing the Catherine and Josie plots this episode is because they find out that Well, rather they're concerned about which one to burn and then they Talk over the fact that Catherine didn't sign the insurance later Um the insurance claim or so their plan seems to regardless be that they're going to continue with this Iceland deal And sell the land to these Icelandic people I want to quote Jerry the question becomes is it more profitable to sell like profitable land or Is there some value to like making it seem more logical by saying the bill was in decline? Yeah, yeah, um, but I want to say So it seems that we're 100% certain that we're not sure Do you know what that reminded me of no, I don't Oh that episode of Okay, all right had to come up. I knew where he had to come up Yeah, I get that I get that that kind of connection there.

Um, thanks Thanks for the validation that you dick I just like I love I love these like this is like the kind of Ben and Jerry moment that I like that I was lamenting The the lack of in the last episode where they're both just such evil scumbags because here they're like but they're evil and like a really removed way Yeah, they're being like jovial with one another and also the idea of the smoke cheese big period like last thing I'll say about it. It looks so ridiculous on screen and I love it. Um, So this is also important to later leelen bardas in between the two of them and it's like hey I think it would be a great idea if we just call the investors and like major that they were like Okay with the news and so forth and they're just about to call When leelen comes in and they connect and motherfucker already called Mares he does and does he does in little and zdivy and also I call people and then I come into the room and say hey What would it be good if you like checked in with them? Like why don't you validate this choice that I've already made his hair has gone white and his brains have gone out the fucking window Because if he is a business partner of ben and jerry horn at this point He should know not to like step above them because literally what happens afterwards is that Jerry has been if they can kill leelen Um because they are not above that obviously So let's Need that there and maybe talk about this thing that I brought up I think that all that stuff's super important and it's super well acted and by contrast No, it is it seems like a fun It's really fun And this is a character moment for ben but it seems like a total fucking afterthought that after two days on the mill bern he realized his daughter is gone Like yeah, unseen somewhere somebody else in the in the in the horn household or in the great northern is like hey Where's Audrey and he goes like Maybe i'll call the police on this one and the way that he's like talking about it Almost seems like he's trying to set up.

He's giving the police a distraction from the mill fire Like why else would he call the police? I could see that I could see that then again It already doesn't seem like it pleases terribly concerned with the with the happenings of the mill fire They're like leo did it and now he's like but so that's true, but I guess ben wouldn't necessarily know the progress of that um Yeah, Audrey Audrey is in the top position and We get some great Audrey scenes out of this though. What do you what do you think about the scene with her and bad? Um, do you think it fits Audrey's character or do you think it comes more out of a Out of a contextual i'm trapped here in canada kind of moment Are you saying that it doesn't fit her character?

I'm saying that everything we've seen about Audrey thus far or of all the things we've seen about Audrey less far Uh threatening the man and literally like putting the chokehold on him with the with the like I guess just I don't know string or rober whatever That's the backing cleaner cord because he has a wirder vacuum cleaner Corner fetish yes, that's well, let's not let's not know let's get of all the things to dwell on this scene Let's not dwell on his his strange So that's having having his toes painted something to do with an ice bucket and wrote yeah Yeah, yeah, let's not let's not try and figure out the intersection of all those things Let's just think Audrey is like choking this man essentially. Is this is this do we see this as a logical progression or is this like? Almost like overly dramatic like i'm Audrey horn i get what i want like It's like is this an or do we see this as her putting on an act to try and get out of the situation and get like the real information Like going out on limb or is this just like ash? Well, Audrey's impulses excuse you.

Sorry, whatever you i had a big battle where the name that you said it correctly earlier Okay, if you had let that go it would not have been a big deal, but we will continue I can say other people think it'd be a big deal. It's a red herring whatever anyway Uh, um, I actually really like the choice that they make because Audrey has really been about like doing things for herself And now she's like out of her depth and we've kind of seen her already Sort of like looking to like external forces to like get her out of the situation So I like seeing her take control again And I like seeing her do that without using her sort of flirty central charms Um, and I also question like if if Dale Cooper has written someone and said you know I'm Dale Cooper and I get what I want or something to that effect Would it have come across as out of character or would it have come across as like Cooper drawing on his you know inner strength and you know I don't think Cooper saying I'm Dale Cooper and I get what I want would have been any less weird Like he is not like he's not also traipsing around like some like pinnacle of like Like I don't know like machismo or like just like that kind of raw like physical violence assertiveness You know, but if he drew upon something like that would you think like oh, he's really like restraining himself And he's everyday interactions and he's like revealing this like more base part of himself Because I think that you can rationalize that kind of character choice For a guy really easily and I think that you should be able to do the same thing for a woman I I don't think that like then maybe I'm just trying to give myself too much better here or something But I think that at least with Cooper as like can I see like any member of the twin peak sheriff department like suddenly like But I like putting something in that position like yeah But for like it also doesn't seem like a great choice Like maybe I'm changing the subject here But also like if you know that baddest is in the room like to suddenly like start putting these threats While you still don't have a way out like a backup plan doesn't seem like a great choice I seem like I missed that for okay There's only one person that she's kind of revealed herself too That's far and it is bad as because he's the one who got her into horns department store And she talked to him about wanting to be other perfume counter So as it is she's kind of eliminating Needless revelations to other people so it makes sense on that level And if he got her in there to the extent that he did it makes sense that he would be able to get her out of there Especially because he has that connection to her father. That's not exactly when I jacks He's connected through horns department store. Okay, but still he's caught up in this shit It is in his best interest like if horn never finds out that Audrey was part of this To Audrey's knowledge or it could be his best interest to totally fuck over horn And I think that that's something that like one should consider and also then Audrey is also just like making a call at when I jacks Out to Cooper later in the episode, which is a terrible fucking decision Like they're not gonna be listening to the phones or like just able to listen through a door Like I think it did Audrey is put in a position where she needs to then be saved in this episode Is my fundamental problem with it is that I don't think that this episode in terms of the decisions Audrey's character makes Is doing any service for her in terms of like not naming her someone who is just being put in a position of distress Which is a trope that is played out to the nines and could have been avoided by I think the Audrey horn that has been established up until this point Well, what do you think that she's gonna do because you don't seem to like her taking this sort of like more violent a sort of initiative And you don't like her kind of asking for help at the same time They've not yet like effectively established why you can't just fucking sneak out of one eye jacks and leave and go They fucking like the the we don't know like exactly what the fucking border looks like here There's not an established like barrier to this.

Yeah, there's a boat Yeah, but like I think it's reasonable to assume that like this is that one eye jacks has security such that it's keeping these girls on the property regardless of their willingness We don't sufficiently see that up until I get very much implied bit based on the fact that she doesn't just leave I don't think that's like sufficient implication one, but that can be like a personal like preference thing Whatever in terms of like how much of showing you to spell this stuff out for you and maybe I'm just an idiot but also So the reason to stay is really and like evidently it's what she wants because she gets the she purposely gets verbal confirmation of the bad Is what she already knows which is that her dad is the owner of one eye jacks Like make sure to get that verbal confirmation out of him while threatening him So like her quest to then impress or like at least get this information for her own personal reasons Like is overriding any sense of just like get the fuck out Which like I think has at least been established so far as like this is not a good place Like they were all but ready to do something really bad to her when she provided her fake name two episodes ago like It doesn't seem it doesn't seem you know regardless of whether or not this moment with badness is in character To stay there doesn't seem smart to stay there and just like make a phone call out being like i'm in trouble doesn't seem smart Okay, but I don't get why you seem to think that she can just walk out of there Like I think we need to put faith in the choices that are being made by the character and for the character by the writer To fill in the gaps of this world in this environment that they're existing in like if there was a way a way to walk out That wouldn't serve the plot and like as a character who has the specific need to leave Why wouldn't she just leave so it makes sense on both of those counts to just Accept this implied layer of security that won't let her leave But so what in what way is like forcing her to be there serving the plot exactly like she gets the information I'm not saying i'm not saying it's like a good plot and i'm not saying i'm totally behind it But i'm saying that like the writing is implying that there's this reason to keep her here based on the fact that she hasn't left yet Despite expressing this need and this desire to the reason to keep her here is so that she can be in this position where she needs to be rescued Which I already don't like we can talk about that issue, but i'm just saying i don't think there's a way for her to leave Okay, like i'm taking issue because I feel like the way you're saying it is coming off as like criticizing audrey's choices as a character I think that there are like bad choices being made on like the part of writers not like coming up with a more interesting situation But they're just like okay like let's show audrey being like a little bad and like getting away and getting information While we're still like playing this long game like and then we're gonna put her in a position where she needs to be rescued Like in which case it's a totally like empty gesture and it doesn't make any sense Like why you would like I don't think it makes enough sense as to why you would threaten this one guy in that way I agree with like the overarching argument that you're making but I still actually like the scene where she's threatening this dude And she's kind of using this dude's like own sexual proclivities against him Whereas this is something that she had been harnessing and catering to before Like yeah, it's not a great scene the way that it's written, but I think that like on a conceptual level It's interesting enough for me to get behind it There's also just like so much fucking going on with the sexuality that just like him being like kind of like put under the pressure at the vacuum cord Like I guess that doesn't play as much for me as like he's getting his like just desserts because of like his Weird put there really isn't like his involvement in this thing But I can see that but there's a lot going on with his weirdness Yeah, I see what you're saying I mean to me it really does play like it reminds me of that scene in the girl that dragon tattoo with the pig tattoo Yep, haven't seen that or read that so okay. Well for the listeners at home for the listeners who have Uh, where were those books written? Norway, maybe Sweden Well, if they were written in Sweden, maybe the 30% of listens to this podcast that have come out of Sweden for some reason Uh, those listeners will resonate with that perhaps Just wanted to work that in there targeting some stuff that you guys Yeah, it's targeted Swedish content. Um, it is Swedish There you go.

We were able to Google search something about it. I just I feel like now is fine times any and I'm sure we'll talk about it because it remains to be a point But starting season two off with one of the strongest characters Like I mean strongest in terms of like development and and like audience like interest is like clearly tied up in Audrey to a significant degree To give her so little screen time and be putting that character in a position where it's just like save me At the start of season two like if I was a viewer then I can't imagine having been like if me now was a viewer then when this was airing Live I would have been like what the fuck is happening with Audrey? Why did they fuck this up so bad? Like why wasn't like at least why was this cliffhanger that were fed this episode of for being in like Legit danger the one that they ended season one with rather than the one with her father entering the room like Like there there are clearly more tangible stakes like there are more like You know mark frost interest being whatever they are in terms of like playing out that situation and leaving people hanging for four months Um, but there are bigger stakes like Audrey is in like mortal danger now as opposed to Audrey is in a situation where like her mystery Like solving thing could be like totally fucked and her father could like react somehow really terribly but that would like be a big Change like I don't know like well and like I will I will give you this I don't get why their immediate reaction seems to be like do harm to Audrey or like keep her at one eye jacks when they could just be like Don't tell your dad you have reason not to tell your dad because of what happened we have reason not to tell your dad So we just pretend this didn't happen.

I think I think bad is is less developed as like a tote who might want to like Step over his bounds and like gain control over the situation that he has between him and in horn But blackie the scene last episode where she is clearly beholden to jerry and ben in terms of like her addiction and her place Running the like I think that there's enough to go off of in terms of moto for her doing a double cross Badis is just like You know he's weird, but that's all we know about is he's weird And maybe he wants to like go along with it or maybe he's being pulled along But again, this is nothing where it's like as an audience member who like things more spelled out I don't know why he thinks it's a good idea. No, um Yeah, I don't know what to threaten obviously I can see I can see blackie Um, I mean, I'd like to make that a little more explicit as her motivations like I see where they could come from But i was actually thinking about this while I was watching this episode earlier today You called Audrey like a strong character with a lot of viewer interest and that's definitely like a comment We've made before about how it seems like the fan faves and the characters who get a lot of development are the women But at the same time like there's so many Like really quirky like interesting characters that really steal scenes and they're all men I'm thinking like really specifically of jerry and albert Mm-hmm. Uh, I would argue that The log lady steal scenes. That's like that's one right.

I mean so we have jerry. We have albert I think gordon quillseen's he's not yet appeared. He will steal scenes. Okay.

If we're trying to stay swollen and he Brennan Um, and you're always in scenes together almost like yeah, they're there. No, he steals scenes when he's just with the police department Yeah, well just with like everybody but lose anything. Yeah, sure. Um Sometimes that's like when you get albert and andy the same scene and it's a big old blowout.

Um I guess I can I can see this You see when I'm saying like the women of twin peeks like as grounded as they are and as much as I like that They're not allowed to be these like really interesting like lynching characters Where do you think where do you think our girl Nadine falls in the spectrum then? I would put Nadine close, but I mean her the way her storyline eventually goes I would almost exclude her from these sort of delightful like weird things that we see with albert You just want to write her off it just be like she's not like a good character No, because the writing for her gets You just can you say that a second time since you just Set it so far from the microphone. All right, but they go in a different direction with her writing and they revel in her strangeness in this sort of Debricating way whereas like there's a certain like joy that's taken in the crafting of like albert and um jerry strangeness Yeah, I can definitely see I can definitely start to see that I feel like albert is almost like a less good example because I think albert All told has way less green time than jerry. Yeah, but um jerry's around a lot more than I remember actually Um, he's a doc keyword more.

Yeah, it's like so jerry sticks in my mind is like someone who like is that type of character and There's not like I won't see me either wasn't an attempt to do that for other characters But like really like a log lady gets you know in this episode especially Pops in and is kind of like this this mystic who advances the plot Um And you wouldn't expect a scene like you get it like you get like a vignette seamer She's like oh it's a log lady like popping her gum over into the booth and then like Norma can bring it up in this episode She does but you don't necessarily get a scene where you just like Sit with the log lady and it's not super plot relevant. Yeah, so For that reason like maybe it's that they just drop the ball and trying to make those characters pop more for women In terms of like the side eccentrics, but that's again that's another thing where it's like so we're all excited We're reading about the stuff that's going down in north bend and people going there and checking out the filming of these series And people are still speculating about who's gonna be in it and what the vibe is gonna be like But there's just still so much emphasis on like all of Twin Peaks being just it's filled with weird people That's the appeal of the show where it's just like I would sooner trade away all the weird eccentric I would trade away the jerry's the alverts whatever to have a show with characters as interesting as like characters who like to the like overarching myth arc of the show Still as interesting as your shell is in your normals like It you know, it could have easily just been like everybody who's not part of the investigation Like or not a direct party investigation is a 2d cutout and it would probably still have been like Interesting television, maybe not good television. Maybe not television. We'd be talking about five or 25 years later, but At the time like people would have been watching it.

Um, so Where you get your eccentrics that somehow then like pop more into focus for people who want to just like look at the show as being weird Television that people were into and that's why they look at it today. Um, I you know This is a long way of me saying I'm glad that we have the building characters who are developed regardless and aren't just like a collection of quirks Like albert makes an interesting turn But he's still pretty one note. Yeah, but I mean I think that we have to have uh, we have to have female characters that like occupy This continuum from one note to grounded and gritty gritty and like sad or whatever And I think that like the fact that like women aren't being used outside of like the log lady in 18 And we've kind of talked about why um, those aren't really apt parallels to jerry and albert I think that the fact that the women aren't occupying these like comedic Standout roles like says a lot about like women in comedy And just like the limitations that we put on female characters and also the fact that like we're not seeing those workie complex Aspects kind of immeshed and these browned characters. Um, are you saying that the women in comic point to say that you don't think that they're trying to be That they're that the attempt isn't there to make comic women characters or are you saying that like it's just not working?

Well, the attempts that we're talking about are the log lady and 18 Like I don't think it's working on the same level and I don't think that they're being utilized Really in the same way because I think for a lot of it, Nadine is this sort of Is sort of depreciated by the plot and by the series as a whole and we've talked about kind of the utility of the log lady And her sort of outsiderness and the fact that we don't really like sit with her as a character I think that This is this is weird. I I really just want to lay this at the like Catacolson as the log lady has great comedic moments and is great throughout the show Wendy roby as Nadine We haven't even caught like Nadine is still in a coma. She's one of the three people in a coma in this episode or like two people like us Uh, but Nadine Wendy she does the best with what comes her way later This isn't about the actress. This is about the writing Do you so do you think it would do you think the ball like legitimately?

Do you think there was just like less effort into making these characters like funny or do you think that they just like dropped the ball and That somehow feeds into this narrative of like Why you have this harmful like Shitty idea of like oh women characters aren't funny like which is clearly false Do you think that in the way in which Twin Peaks interacts with that story? Is that its comic characters that who are women just aren't as well made or Some other thing or there are not enough of them or not enough examples like I can't exactly track where you're going with this I'm saying it's both of those things because I'm talking about how the female characters are limited to these very narrow grounded roles And they do get this great character development that we find ourselves drawn to and we find ourselves rooting for them But they don't occupy this continue this full continuum of types of characters that we see the male characters occupy where they can be Really comedic and one note and have these standout scenes And we've talked about how how These comedic female characters are played and how it's not seen because you're not sitting with them and exploring them in the same way that you do Get to sit with jerry or you do get to sit with coo. I think I think I think that The like if we were just to focus in on 18 these samples totally right like yep, here's here's the the Comic female lead and then just like oh wait Um, suddenly we decided that this character is going to have this arc where she Tries to kill herself and then we're going to try to recover from that and still have this character be the comic character And it will go in places that we will discuss in the future that are not good I think the log lady for his little screen time is she guess is great I think Lucy is especially great and without again like you know getting too far ahead of ourselves I think the comic turns that some of the male characters take later on and the new mural characters that are introduced are fucking awful Lucy is not perfect throughout the entire show the log lady is not perfect throughout the entire show So I will say this I think that In my mind with those two examples in mind like almost the comedy that survives out of these side characters as season two goes on That actually feels like good twin peeps is almost more retained than when we see God, I shouldn't even say his name the first name. Yeah, but you know who I'm talking about right the character that gets introduced in short time Who is not funny at all?

Maybe yeah, maybe I don't know my male It's got a smile Got a no not not in scenes with with in scenes at the sheriff's department We'll talk about this later. Okay. All right. I just think that like but like I'm it's not it's not it's not an issue of quality though It's like I don't like the idea that like they get better storylines so ultimately they win in the end It's about like range and diversity and like allowing women to occupy diverse roles regardless of quality It's the idea that women can have those roles and can be these strange one-note characters where we can kind of revel in their strangeness Without kind of taking pity on them or like I just like I don't see that I guess like I'm saying like don't see especially with the show taken as a whole that that range being that limited as you're making out to be Like because then I see like just as many like missteps or or like denials with like the the male characters Like I don't think that they necessarily stay like but I think it's within their whole range like as well represented But I think it's like a proportion thing like if you look at the proportion of women who are relegated to these like again very grounded Well-acted well-written roles that don't have this absurdist comedic element How it would be like counting this out then to continue having this discussion in a quote-unquote productive way or we can move past it and not have like What is a weird like argument where I'm just saying like based on episodes you haven't seen I don't know if you would be saying this right now because some of the weird comic eccentricism Like just fucking falls flat on its face when it's being developed from like other other like anyway It's still not a quality thing that's all I'm gonna say I think also but like I'm saying in terms of the quantity like they try to do a lot of comic stuff later across a lot of different characters And and it doesn't work which is a quality judgment So you're saying that it should purely be about like letting people do whatever and fail.

Yeah like So the misrepresentation here is that I'm saying like there are like dude characters that fucking suck and just like take up screen time And are not funny at all and you're saying like it would be better if we had an even mix Yeah, I am I guess I see that but I would I would like I feel like quality almost matters more because then like I feel like what the Directional show takes was let's keep being like like let's lay on the funny a little bit more Let's put some more like like put our panel on the guys and like lay it down And then they just like fucking ran it into a wall But the characters that were established and were thought out well from the start stayed okay like they stayed good Yeah, but I'm not even just talking about the show I'm talking about like macro patterns and like entertainment and cinema and television where you know women have these very limited defined roles available to them And most of those roles aren't comedic and they aren't these absurdist character roles either We're gonna have a lot to talk about when david do company top and pop something in this fucking show Yeah, I know I'm just like and it maybe this is something we should revisit when we begin to later have a season too But I get I get the the quantity argument I just like there's this also this part of me that rails against the idea of like let's just throw more of whoever At what's not going to work And I'm becoming increasingly the opinion that the quirkiness of Twin Peaks is what matters the fucking least to me when I'm watching this show and like Actually judging as a good show But I'm just saying that women should have the opportunity to take on those weird she rolls that don't work I get it but like fuck that's like they're like talking about two separate things I'm just saying there should be the opportunity and that those roles should be written in the first place Right and I'm saying they shouldn't have written any more of those roles than they already did because the comic relief cast of Twin Peaks swells to this fucking like unsustainable like size regardless and I'm saying purely in the context of the show like we're not in disagreement outside of this But like I'm saying like I don't even know Within this podcast like yeah, we're just saying that this kind of plays or like relates to this trend But at the same time like this isn't this isn't the fucking battleground for it because when this show tries to be really funny Is when it starts to like piss me off Like I like those roles should still be written for women. Okay, if we want to go back and like rewrite the show That's like a totally different thing It just annoys me because so many of the women that um That like we love as characters are pretty much just like good women in hard positions and yeah Like I really root for them and they have great performances to their credit But they don't get to do as much deeply interesting stuff like aesthetically or just relating to the plot itself Yeah, we don't we don't spend as much time talking about a long way to early as we do about you Yeah, let's talk about Andy or Albert like and they do have the most real character development But that is seemingly it's a dominant type of character development that they get a shitty trade-off Is what you're saying like it is it is no better necessarily than the alternative because you're trading this one thing for the continued Like the continued tendency to ignore the possibility of opening those types of roles up on the other hand. Yeah Um But I would just love everybody to be a well-developed character and to not okay, all right in any case in In the very case We have precious few episodes of this podcast left before I'm not going to be like a slumped over mess being like I can't believe I decided to take the rest of this season one episode at a time one week at a time like I don't think I've emphasized quite as as Bluntly as I should have how much like binge watching this show is the only way I can really imagine going through the second half of the second season And yet and yet you came to me a couple months ago and we're like, hey, let's do a podcast I was like sounds like a great idea and well and yet this is how people originally watch this show Yeah, I can't you know what this is this is a unique view that our Twin Peaks brand brings to the two podcast here and let me tell you uh binge watching this show is probably a hell of a lot better in terms of getting Through the wolf episodes than it is Watching it a week at a time like that's fair what our uh, guess said last week What's got said last week where people were like I like my shows to make sense or whatever like the claim his friends leveled against him Yeah, yeah at a certain point there's a couple episodes stretch where you're just like this is irrelevant to my interests at all Or to the plot or to anything what's happening? Why am I watching this show james?

I'm looking at you. Can we talk about this episode's turn for the fucking worst? Yes, we can the mystery kids musical number slash love triangle That's what my notes say I didn't remember at the top of the episode when watched it that was directed by david hinch But this may be the worst thing david lynch has ever been responsible for wow. Okay.

Let's say that before we go see him in north bend Stop saying hey, you know what? He's not gonna. I'll bleep that out. He's not gonna listen to the podcast.

I'm not gonna bleep it out That is not a mistake. I will I will say that to his face. I will walk up there and be like Love the show. You're really cool.

Why the hell did you make us sit through just you and I? Because there is not a more famous one for most that is not a song for a two-person course That is a duet that is not there's no word for a three-person singing situation because there shouldn't be one It is so ham-fisted and it's like establishment of this triangle and on this jealousy and james is like Inability to focus on one girl at a time evidently Like yeah, it accomplishes all those things in the like most cringe-worthy way possible. I can't If you're if your friend came to you and said I'm going to sing a song on my acoustic guitar And I want you and my other friend to be the chorus while I record this song Would you take why like a why would you be friends of that person beat? Would you take them up on that offer?

Here's why you would take them up on that offer. It's Twin Peaks There's not a lot to do other than go out to the town and probably get murdered So that's fair Maybe for a laugh you record a song with your with your friend who has a motorcycle for some reason Like and just hope that grunge will become a thing and that maybe you'll as a logging town You know he'll stop doing this soft crooner shit and that you'll get the song that also did not sound like that actor's voice at all No, it did not Can we just like this time watching it because I knew I hated it and I knew it was coming this episode I noticed something to piss me off a new about it Which is that which is that James is doing the worst fucking job of fake lighting guitar ever You know, I'm not no I'm not saying like when you see someone like fake playing a guitar in the movie and you're like hearing all these like individual That was come out, but they're just like one hand like across the entire Right, right. I'm just playing like a chord like no, it's not that bad There is some fake finger picking and some fake like fingering going on But let me let me do a vocal approximation of the guitar track to just you and I which is Everyone that's really good. You should be a musician.

Yeah, well, I'm not but I can have enough practice I tell you that everyone does do do do's that's me doing like a pull off or like a like a finger like like you're basically like Lay that dragon on us. You are you are plucking the string once and then you are like With your with your fretting hand like playing another note really fast. So you get that Instead of just like do your degree of detail is so necessary And he's not even fucking trying like the entire musical motif of the like guitar track is that it's like just like this arpeggiated one two three Like that whole thing. That's the only reason why it's like it's sonically interesting And you're watching this fucking long shot just lingering on james where he is not even trying to do that Have you ever just like sat outside a public place and just played your acoustic guitar.

Why are you asking me this? Just seems like something you might have done a public place Who do you think I am? A white boy who went to college and played the electric guitar the acoustic guitar both. Thank you second I don't think I ever actually pulled that shit at read.

I don't think I did there was one time when me and a friend Uh Circumstances behind this are real funny and as such they're so funny. I can't mention them on the podcast But we went into the the dark room um And turned off the lights and then we played we played a fucking crooked teeth by death cab That was oh But not a public place not for public consumption. I think one time I was at a yard sale and there's nobody fucking like walking on the street or something But like it was a yard sale for college kids and like I like probably same same person was there and like a play guitar or something But I will have you know, I never fucking win out to the front lawn with my acoustic in hand And I was like hey y'all who wants to hear me play Wonderwall like no Don't try and put me on blast on this podcast like this. Okay, we can we can go like I'm just asking because you're flexing your acoustic guitar knowledge.

I was flexing just my guitar knowledge I will say that James playing an electric okay So you're just like showing your not knowledge by keeping But we can okay all right calm ourselves Actually stop laughing Actually stop laughing All this laughing is becoming dead air actually Okay, can you stop laughing? No she can um We can have his heated discussions we want about twin peaks on this podcast But you cannot all right you cannot if you I mean I would not blame you if you wanted a different co-host But if you want me as your co-host don't try to put me on blast like I was some fucking like hey, you know I hear bell hooks is pretty cool, but do you want to hear my hook on this guitar cover? I have Street out of Compton I'm a real cool dude I like listen to rap music but I also play guitar and also like I have a bong back in my boar in my fucking dorm room like no That wasn't me I wasn't saying that was you I'm just pointing out you were trying to open that door And I will tell you that if you try to open any more doors like that. I will just quit Okay, moving on it won't be just you and I it'll be just you just you and no one else talking into a microphone about twin peaks Try not to feel weird then Okay in any case let's talk about major break-and-space Oh, okay All right.

Yeah, let's talk about major break-and-space Um, so this is like some real ex-file shit as you said earlier. It is some real ex-file shit Although it predates the ex-files by a number of years. Yeah, um So major break is given some secret government work that he can't talk about and they're receiving transmissions from space Which he refers to as space gibberish. Mm-hmm.

And then upon Cooper shooting they get a message in the space gibberish That says the owls are not what they seem Mm-hmm and then shortly after that they get the messages that say Cooper that is what happens now I don't see why we had to talk about this that much because like they have their like little more like we're both employees of the federal government It's just kind of weird like government like almost like on the verge of like macho like respect for like Boundaries and confidentiality thing, but then it's just like oh space messages. Let's say Cooper's name. Clearly. It's all aliens Aliens the darkness in the woods.

It's all aliens everything is aliens. This is ex-files aliens David the company on his way Spoiler alert I I like this scene because I like you know I like the way in which the information is presented. I like Don Davis just going Cooper Cooper Cooper Cooper like I kind of want to make a line that just loops that That should be what goes up with this episode as we should I would rebind that I don't have a buying account But I would rebind them Cooper anyway But matter's back to major figs. I don't know what to take from this other than like yeah, so where the like Lynch frost over our shing story wants to go is to imply that this has something to do with space now What?

Yeah, it's definitely mixing like these fantastic like earthly kind of witchy supernatural elements with like sci-fi alien space stuff Now like it could also be seen as covering in spaces because just because You know major breaks in that whole organization pick this up on their like space satellites doesn't mean that the cause can't be Something else but if you want to Really lay down the cards and say hey if you if the two appearances by the like ghostly giant last episode We're not enough to convince you that this show is starting to go in that direction Like let let us implicate you know more stuff out of like Paranormal extraterrestrial conspiracy realms to like really lay it online like this is something that's at play here in the in the story um but Taken at face value within the context of the plot. It's like oh, so space stuff. Oh really Space stuff. Come on space stuff But uh, so most of the discussions on the use net boards for this week were about the owls are not what they seem and how we're going to interpret that Um, and that's especially kind of relevant because of the overlay of the owl over killer bob space that we see at the end Yeah, um, which is clearly implying some kind of connection between bob and the owls um and I pointed someone earlier brought up on the message boards with that um This person had interpreted interpreted the inner cutting of sarah Palmer's vision with that scene of the owl and then it goes to the hand reaching for the locket So this person had interpreted those just positions suggesting that laura palmer could see through the eyes of the owl And was therefore getting a vision of the locket being pulled out of the ground Huh, okay Can we talk about the owl overlay and how yes?

Both how Technologically limited but still super fucking creepy. Yeah, actually Sorry, like should we just do use net first or should I either way interject you skipped over the couch Yeah, I did I might not just say the creepiest scene ever so yeah, because you asked me several episodes ago What was the scene exactly that your mom decided to stop watching queen peeps? It was the scene It was the couch scene. All right, it is the fucking Universally, I think recognize all-time creepiest fucking scene out of the show if you're in it for the creepiness I think it kind of kind of peaks here Oh my god, I watching it this time I was watching it late at night And I knew it was coming still and I still kind of forgot how close frank silda playing bob gets to the camera And just how much he like crawls like this It's so it's so like well coordinated like the way that they do it because there's really there's nothing in his way Like he just so agile he steps over like the couch on the coffee table It's like there's no earthly thing that's gonna really stand between you and bob It is so scary I was watching it on a well-lit airplane this time and I was fine Well, you also can't lose your cool in a well-lit airplane and not seem like you're real weird Like you don't want to be watching that scene and then like let out a little like And then your like seat party is like what the fuck is up with this person like god damn it It's fine.

It's awful But I will admit that the first time I watched it I was like alone in a dark room and it was really creepy Um, I saw this as I was like poking around twin peeps twitter this weekend I saw this great image meme where someone had just taken the shot of the like the same frame shot without bob in it And then labeled all the furniture pieces as though it was an Ikea catalog Wow, I love that. That was pretty into that. Um, I Yeah, you get a lot of bob in the first couple and the thing that we didn't talk about that was like important was leelin seeing the sketch of bob in Office and saying I've seen this person at the cabin. I went to in the child.

Yeah pearl lakes. Um Super important like bob's like suddenly and the other throwaway line that seems kind of important is that hank used to be a House boy. I was also I also had that written down But that is definitely a throwaway line that is definitely like in terms of importance at least this episode like oh, okay Cool good to know good to know we're being reminded of the existence of book house boys Yeah, and supposedly at one point hank wasn't a total greasy asshole But whatever we only have harry's word for it. So, you know, uh harry who may be abusing his powers of share if I don't know um So bob's getting a lot of screen times when I want to say like not only like major breaks extraterrestrial like seining Communications, but we're really getting into ronnet saw bob The giant says saw the saw the killer It says maybe one lines of like saw the killer but not like Not who like we're getting like in the giant sign There's implication that like and it's inferned by ronnet seeing the sketch of bob That like bob is someone who people can see now you can see bob the bob is clearly not just like a dude walking around Yes, so leelin seeing bob then should be that much more impressed to us.

Yes and Bob is not just like hiding at the fucking foot of beds anymore and like making Sarah calmer's Like he is mobile. He is seen in the flashback of the train car doing bad shit like bob is not also just like some kind of like Hey, gotcha. I'm here. I'm bob.

Like he's not just like showing up like he's not just a scare he is menacing um and that I like I you know, it's something that i'm appreciating more now, you know, I just like five minutes ago said fuck watching this But seeing this threat gradually heightened the way it is Um is super intriguing because if you just like railroad your way through season one you can be like oh, yeah Like bob is like the like prime suspect and they're like weird shit going on He's like kind of like not corporeal or whatever But if you're watching it we can you can forget that that was what was going on Yeah, um and then come back to this and have this scene scared of living fucking daylights out of you So Much of sense on bob Did you use that react to that was they're not a freaked out post being like guys I need to stop watching the show there weren't any freaked out posts like that there were 150 posts for this episode Which is a pretty high number um and there were There were a couple that I don't fully remember the content of but the title was like bob didn't do it and here's why And I think like no one responded to those and I maybe didn't click on them. Okay But um, here's an interesting bob theory Uh killer bob is the human incarnation of an owl punishing the logging industry for destroying his habitat Okay, so really laying laying on thick the ecological themes we were talking about. Yes. Okay I could also like also I'm not like immediately like oh, yeah, that sounds like stupid as hell It's like well you do see an owl on his face this episode There's mill stuff like I guess if this show was fern gully it would like that would work.

Yeah. Yeah, I'd be into that Um, so there's some claim wait you would be into the show if it would actually end up being Thematically like in life. It's fern gully. I just think fern gully is a great movie Can we have a fern gully podcast?

Yeah, it'd be one episode, but let's do it. Okay. Sure. I want to watch that movie again Yeah, it was on Netflix last I checked anyway Anyway, um, so some people had some complaints about character development and he becoming like progressively More dim-weighted beyond the point of believability.

Was he ever believable in the first place? I think in the first couple episodes he was more klutsy and like sensitive and like outright incompetent Okay, I mean the like sperm bank sperm. Well, sterile. Yeah, maybe sterile.

But I don't have the bathe thing. That's pretty intense Um, but the same user pointed out that albert has lost his cynical edge because he cares about coops Health post shooting Um and truman being a bad friend being untrue to their bond right by not asking how he's doing Um, but I just find that interesting because we've been having this discussion about um these rare david lynch episodes David lynch directed episodes and how they're received and how The new series is going to be received after being you know directed solely by him. Yeah, um Does it bother you to go back to our earlier discussion that like character development's all off and then just like list these like I mean, I think truman Doesn't doesn't count. I think truman is like solidly main character status I was actually looking at the uh, I have this vhs of the pilot Um, the phth is popular pilot and it's got like the movie style listing of the stars.

Um, and Who are the who are the characters listed under the other star themes? Um, cooper truman josey and kaffrin Uh-huh, that's really weird. Yep. Uh, joselyn chan.

Um, michael onkeen. Uh, shit shit shit. What's what's kaffrin's actress's name? Oh, no, you got yourself into this mess I got myself into it, but just think about it.

You think about a twin teaks where the top billing is cooper Truman josey And kaffrin kind of makes sense in the context of the pilot if you ignore the fact it was piper lori Yeah, piper lori. I believe is the one on that uh cassette tape I maybe i'm wrong and in which case, you know, we'll do corrections next week But i'm not gonna get up from this position of my living room to get checked with vhs tape That's just like super weird like those are the main characters Well, but this is is this for the european version of the pilot? Um, well again, we don't actually know what's on that vhs tape like in terms of the cut I just bought it for a dollar one day and i've never bought it for decoration Yeah, basically i bought it because i'm a dork Who in portland has a vhs that we can borrow hit us up hit us up Um does bother you that this usenet post is focusing on these like dude side characters and like do you like my question is this Do you think that the audience posting on usenet and this is like Almost like entirely separate from twin beats and getting more into this like general let's talk about the media and talk about the way people respond to it Is usenet just like a bunch of like nerd lords in basements who are By and large misogynists and like not up on things or is it like people with like degrees of literature like posting on On on this new fangled thing that they have access to through colleges Like I genuinely want to know what the shakeout seems to be from your perspective because I could see it going either way Like access was restrained to a certain type of person But I don't know what fucking type of person that was I was on the internet at age five Because it was just a thing so you could get at your house and you've got AOL discs in the mail All the fucking time like I took so long to load it took a real long time to load You know what we're some of the last people who remember loading the internet Dialogue like I think about this. There are probably a number of freshmen in college right now who have never experienced dial up Don't play these games with me.

I did not games. This is a real life. This is real life actually So was it was a bunch of like proto proto gamer gators on use that or was it like slightly more chill? Um, it was slightly more chill.

I think that they're like it is probably predominantly male but there are Unnumber of women, um and we're not seeing the post that um That coming on non jionny talks about in the x-files files where people are like talking about um Dana's golly's breasts and stuff like that like we're not getting that I've not got that point x-files files, but that is fucking well Have you gotten to the part where um julie Anderson is pregnant? I guess I think I have but like that is about when like for listening out there I'm slowly working my way for the x-files most of what I watch it now is like twice a week when I do my uh When I do my Aztec secret face mask, which I'm thinking about doing tonight. What time is it right now? It's kind of late.

Let's kind of late. Let's wrap this up. Also, I could probably fit in an episode of the x-files face mask after this um Oh, there's a new episode of rick and mortion tonight. Oh, hey second mention in the podcast about a different show So but in any I haven't yeah, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised It's like it's like pretty gross when julie Anderson gets pregnant and people are like, you know, data school is less hot now Are they gonna write her off of the show?

Um, this pair of red and obviously we're not getting um too much of that at this point It's mostly like graduate students and I think it is predominantly people in the sciences Although there are definitely some humanities majors. Um, so it's not great and it's not awful I prefer I prefer my uh online TV discussions to be more heavily weighted towards the humanities than I do The sciences sorry sciences. I'm just saying lucky nerds. Whoa, okay Actually brand alone says the guy who was saying like so is he's had just a bunch of nerd lords and their parents basement?

Um, well, they may be they may be nerd lords, but they have to go to college Is this an anti nerd podcast? Are we coming out swinging the two of us especially saying like down with nerds? Because I don't think that that dog won't hunt there are some different schools of nerdy that we can talk about at a later date because there Are some theories that you should hear right now. It's some theories I should hear.

Yeah, okay. Um, so theory number one Lucy is an immaculate virgin. Well, not immaculate, but she's a experiencing a virgin pregnancy Okay, second theory Lucy got pregnant after working at one ijax because people are still working under that assumption that character that actually resembled kimmy robertson was Lucy I'm just like every time I'm picturing someone before they go to use net and post this nonsense They like paused the video Like their tape copy of that episode, but like a screen is just real fuzzy and they're staring out for an hour being like No, i'm pretty sure that's her. I'm like 90.

I'm like internet percent certain that is her I'm using that percent certain And then okay, so some of the letters that we have under the fingernails are r and t Um, and so people start posting lists of all of the words that have both r and t in them Okay, pretty long list and then someone points out that those are the last two letters of albert Um satanism often involves things being spelled backwards. So I think we found the killer albert the satan this very good. Yeah, you know, I wish it was something like E anti because then the joke had immediately popped in my head that i'm gonna go with regardless would be much better Um, okay, which is uh in the tony cox game tony hot games when you have to collect skate sk8 Have you never played a tonic hot game? No, I feel like I only play animal crossing.

That's fair. That's totally a great way to go I was with a killer is placing letters under their fingernails. What do you think he's telling skate? He's trying to get the high score.

He's trying to get the high school around hanger That's why we've all been taking place in hangers. Oh my god All the murders have taken place in tony hawk. All right all the murders have taken place somewhere with half pipes and rails Search it for skateboard residue spam our germ in any case. Oh, you know what?

He does whatever the fuck he wants Boom, man, my dear. I call for reference Did I watch too much leave people the band as a teenager? Yeah, I did because I wasn't even like into skating Wow, it was just on wow. I feel like mtv programming was just on like that says a lot about you It says too much about me.

Honestly, I watched so much pit my ride I did too, but like I was not watching people of am in any case A new emerging theory is that laura killed maddy dumped her body and then took her place in billings montana Okay, like sub like fake her own death killed maddy and took her place. Okay. That's a fine theory I guess without evidence. It's getting interesting getting interesting out there Another theory is that laura and ronnet are victims of alien abduction Uh, it could totally I've had after this week's episode.

Yeah, I'm on board with that. Yeah Um, I don't really have any production now. It's because at this point we could be no longer has distinct Pages for the episodes. Thanks with wikipedia.

Well, and they're also they didn't record director's commentary for this season So I don't have that either. Oh, that's unfortunate. So way to make our jobs harder But I thought we could maybe talk a little bit about it I know this podcast really long, but we spent money on that so we spent four dollars on that not counting the pizza and beer Okay, that took a lot of time out of my sleep schedule. So You're telling me that was like the fourth regrettable decision I made that week in terms of weeknight activities I was fucking wrecked Friday.

Well, I mean I tried to go the night before and then there was a line and I was like, nope Just gonna go home. Yeah, so let's talk about it Um, I think it was right after we watched it that I was talking with you and saying like so do you think that mark frost just went to david lynch and pitched The genesis of twin peaks as imagine blue velvet but with magic It's very possible because all of the like proto themes of twin peaks are there Yeah, um good and evil conceptions and relationships between masculinity and femininity Um, weird sex stuff Hello weird sex stuff as an exemplified by this episode and also in the movie, um, um, mystery kid detectives Yeah, mystery kid detectives and like oh my god Uh, I can't tell if you're a pervert or detective. That's for me to know like jeffrey bollmont That's only the thing that a pervert says kind of a glauklin dating a high schooler Uh-huh, but weird because like here's the thing. Okay.

No, let's get into this. Okay. Let's go all right So you and I both more or less Ship auditing cooper. I actually I might be rescinding my support for that relationship as mixed as it was Okay, um because I was actually read this on the internet So I made a comment about how this show and its conceit is really about like the abuse of like one woman, um one girl, um, and how um And like abuse by like adult men and how um, it's sort of like ironic and like sort of anti Um, the point of the show and it's really rooting for that relationship Right if I want to And I don't I definitely vehemently don't I don't want to go to that point But if I was the type of person to be like, yeah, no And then like also ignore everything else that's weird about the cooper audrey relationship and just focus on the fact that it is Better developed and like made to be a thing and it like cooper is like made out to be the stand-up guy and audrey is like You know, uh person who's maybe like, why's me under her years or no?

She wants like that's okay. Like it could be okay But really what I want to get at is the uncomfortable notion of and this is where you and I can relate to this being where we are Lies right now of someone who's in college right now going back home because their dad had a heart attack And then being like I'm gonna get with that girl who I barely overlap within high school If you ever have to pick up your date at a high school stop right there Exactly do not exactly see at the very least like at the very least you can be like well Cooper just sat down for for breakfast one morning and then this girl came up to him Not like cooper then like hopped in his car and then like stole this girl away from the high school quarterback like yeah Jeffrey Beaumont Also, dude you you don't peeped on the club singer and Is my summary of blue velvet all right Opening shot you see some flowers a man Fire Colors Fire rolls on by he's waving at you on a fire engine cut to oh guys having a heart attack cuts you oh It was kind of like one's dad cut to he's just kind of hanging out trying to figure things out But then finds an ear whoa This is also a blue velvet spoiler cast up by it finds an ear picks it up like a dumb dumb brings it to the police like a dumb Just a roiser crime scene doesn't get chastised what Fast forward to goes to the detective's house is like with so but the ear detectives like you know really going scene by scene I'm trying to make it as funny as possible. The tech was like I can't fucking tell you that daughter though who is right below Right above above above dad's office like I can tell you about the ear why Did he not raise you to not tell people about the cases Fast forward. I'm gonna stalk this club singer.

I'm gonna hide her closet. Oh god She's found me and has a knife when it me. I'm hard what gross get out Fast forward to Dennis hopper. We don't speak of Dennis hopper Frank's too scary for me to make jokes about cut to Dean Stockwell best scene in a movie ever maybe Also our guy uh Pete Martel himself Shit This is the ginger beer.

This is the ginger beer doing this to me. I know what word you're looking for his name Know what we're looking for I mean, I know his name and i'm Jack nance bam got it. Got it. Just took my brain a little bit It's time this is gonna be either people's least favorite part of the podcast ever or their favorite part Is Holding it over me Please vote on twitter is this your favorite or your least favorite moment of the podcast don't vote on twitter Um purposely opposing that notion because if not their favorite moment will be something like really Okay, you're gonna finish this blue ball that we got um yeah, okay, so what turns out wellness man is uh actually Dennis hopper And the worst fucking disguise ever up a cop is a vault up uh Is about Laura's leaning his character.

Oh, there's sleeping. Oh comic. I can't hit her. Oh god.

Oh god. They're making out a party lord Orrdern also. Hey lord, orrdern is in this movie and she's great. I love lord.

Orrdern just saying not part of summary But just saying and then oh oh naked is a little ruslinging lord. Oh god. Oh, whoa. Whoa.

Whoa. Whoa walking talking nonsense And then comic got then shoots Dennis hopper his brain explodes in the most like gory latex Blowout ever and then a robin is pictured eating a bug as the climactic symbolic moment of the movie And that's about as deep as the symbolism goes in this movie If that summary didn't make you want to see blue ball that nothing well Just know this I was on an impression that dune was made after this movie But actually this is the movie that like rebuilt david lynch's reputation after the unmitigated disaster that was dune So it's pretty good. Don't take my summary for it. It's a pretty fucking awesome movie Well, okay, but are we gonna are we gonna get high on spice and like have her eyes turned blue and watch dune before recording a podcast on these days?

I don't think we're gonna smoke spice, but you know, do you do you know what I mean by spice? I don't mean the fuck you do you mean the artificial marijuana? Yeah, wait, we've talked about this before but continue no spice is the dune thing Yeah, yeah, we talked about this Jesus Christ Hey, Ashley, you know how like cogent and like together our podcast is and how we really stay on track at all times What if we threw that off by smoking something that you should never put in your body aka synthetic marijuana Just floating that out there as a suggestion. I wouldn't say that A joke rt if we should smoke spice the real Down with I will put whatever in my body to build an audience, but I don't want to I'll buy it anyway No, but um, I think that um, there's a really interesting relationship of like It's not it's just the way that the Madonna for complex plays out in that movie and it's like very pointed Laura Dern is so pure and innocent And she's like the right choice in the end and then isabella rosolini's character It was like it's interesting because she's like the sexually deviant like mother character You usually see the pure mother character, but ultimately that's not the right decision for pure young kyel mcwachlan No, and Laura Dern can forgive him for having sex with this about isabella rosolini without telling her like immediately after Now to be fair though once well to be fair to just like point out like jerry boma is a creep Yeah, like I like this movie.

I don't think like really is like I don't think movie really absolve sim of any of us creeped up at any point yeah, um, but uh the like the cementing of sandy and jeffreece relationship comes It comes after all the creepy apartment sex Um, you asked me also this is a movie and finally I thought that my mom was like too creepy Which is like mom you watched this before you started watching twin peaks and you saw any of twin peaks Saw all the similarities there in and we're like, I'm gonna keep with this show It probably won't creep me out and then it took you to the couch Like after the end of the previous episode with like bob screaming in the train car and like Laura's like totally terrifying face And the train like you kept watching it was the couch that anyway I Where was it going with this? I don't know. It's just a beer and the cream corn has really gotten really suck Well, there was a point that I wanted to make make your point. Maybe I'll But the so the whole like mondano-hor complex thing ultimately in narratives mostly boils down to women being punished for being sexual beings and we're definitely seeing that with blue velvet to a certain extent Right.

So um with this episode of twin peaks, there's this parallel drawn between Audrey and Laura who again didn't really know each other But um Audrey says I'm Audrey Horne and I get what I want and then um bada says Laura always got what she wanted And there's this implied parallel drawn between them and sort of their will and like the way that they are in the world and you know The fact that they may use their own sensuality To you know manipulate others or whatever um and it you know to a certain extent I think the argument could be made that the show is punishing women for having Um for being sexually active not even necessarily having sexual agency at this point And I don't exactly think that that's what the show is doing But I think that there is evidence to make that argument and I think that in that sense this show is kind of upholding that structure especially since thus far What has been established as the that's the The thing that has been established as the antagonist isn't even just like a concrete person It's Bob Bob is Somehow otherworldly in nature and so like Bob is the creepy thing that like will Punish you and dam you if you as like Ronette and Laura did like I don't know have sexual agency and decide or like kind of find your way Stepping into sex work like you can make that interpretation It holds a hell of a lot more water than half of these usenet interpretations and it's not great um I think that this is something where The television show Both because of just like being on network television and because they're making it in the in the being of a television show where you're having different writers It's hard to really hone in on what is What in terms of like the immediate vicinity of this theme like how How this kind of agency is being treated by the fiction? Well, and like is it even agency at this point? Yeah in significant ways. It's not agency.

I think that This is something that the show Maybe I might even go as far to say the firewalk with me tries to respond to a perceived lack of lack of work put into exploring this and like flushing out the sort of overall thrust that Is supposed to be in the direction. Sorry. What am I saying? Like?

I don't know. I'm saying that the show Leaves that up to interpretation. I feel like in terms of The the message and like is this sort of supposed to be punishing these characters for this stuff? And I think that the movie makes Takes great lengths to try and clarify where it Where it comes to rest in terms of a position in terms of these like In-fiction forces and why they approach these certain things and then like Not necessarily but like the message being like Are these are we supposed to be seeing these people be punished or be like sort of like taking advantage of or Throwing about by the wheels of other like awful Forces like I don't know right, but I think um in like a grand narrative sense like Any of those motivations can like in a again a grand narrative sense be interpreted as like punishment for right I also like I think back to The way that movie was received and talking about it in this way I wonder like I wonder how much of it was I mean the movie gets to be a good deal more explicit than the show ever There to be I wonder how much that put off viewers But also like the message that that was bringing across right and how it was like like did people Watch this show and like hear like and absorb all this stuff about Laura Palmer's past and you know Drug addiction and Proclivities and like both like voluntary and seemingly involuntary like involvement in sex work And then just like ignore it and then suddenly become uncomfortable when it was shown to them right right like was that too much or Or were people responding to sort of the message wrapped up in that?

I don't know but that's where Oh, fuck me 20 episodes from now. Yeah Goddamn it. We've made it through 10 Jesus Should we sign off here? We have to talk about the corn The corn was cream corn out of the can It was I don't know if I'm just like feeling feeling a little raw around the edges because It's late and I know I work in the morning.

I'm here in those good bowl sounds in my in my uh in my monover headphones right now Um as you finish up your cream corn Or maybe it's the fact that I eat all that cream corn and drink a ginger beer But I feel kind of bad right now really like I could eat more cream corn I think like if you couldn't if you haven't picked up on it But I think I'm like being way more slow than tonight normally on for this podcast Which is part of why we normally drag up to around two hours because I can't grasp or articulate my ideas that fast But the cream corn I think is slowing down Well, you know, it gets a five out of ten for me. I say eat it hot. Don't wait for it to cool down This is not damn fine cream floor. It's not gonna indoors.

But don't eat cream corn people Oh god, um, I'm not alternatively don't cup it in your hands either. That's gross Yeah, don't don't and don't make your son do it on a television show I'm Matthew Olson. If I'm on twitter at Matthew Olson spell it right. I also do a podcast with my friend katlin best called ganyu get to that It's a comedy wickipedia game podcast Uh the episode that just went up was about list of salads, which is a great wickipedia article If you don't check out the podcast Aveil yourself with a list of salads that wickipedia has available for you.

It's quite educational. That's my piece Um, so i'm actually brandt you can find me on twitter at ashley grant Um, i'm getting ready to host a couple new podcasts the most notable of which right now because it has a twitter page Is the k-hole uh your place for all things Kardashian Um our friend and previous upon Thank you. Um, sorry if you want to explain that go ahead, but our uh friend from last week scott just started a podcast called I'm so sure it's a pop culture podcast. You can find him on twitter at i'm so sure podcast I want to check that out Especially like check it out regardless, but I think the last week's episode was really really good.

So if you enjoyed that like Make a point checking out that podcast sky started Um, so we have anything else to say anything else to plug or to preview or to Go over. Okay, please give us the sign off these grapes are right on edge Can't change it like that