Tonight on 360, a day after Elon Musk and Donald Trump torpedoed a bipartisan budget deal, House Republicans tried to pass a GOP-only measured, but can't even get enough Republicans on board. Also tonight, how alleged CEO killer Luigi Manjiani started the day facing state murder charges and finishes it in a federal jail cell, facing a federal murder charge that could carry a death sentence. Later, was the Wisconsin shooter planning another mass murder along with someone from across the country, but newly obtained court documents review. Good evening to you, Jim Trudeau here, sitting again for Anderson.
Tonight, House Republicans have failed to pass legislation to keep the federal government running for the millions of Americans who depend on. This is Washington, this is how the lawmaking is done. It's a long process, sometimes it takes a while to reach consensus, but we're gonna do the right thing here tonight. That was House Speaker McJohnson, who could not corral enough of his own party members behind what was, actually their Plan B legislation, after Elon Musk and President-elect Trump sank a bipartisan Plan A yesterday.
Today, both men were behind the measure tonight, but again, not enough of their fellow Republicans were as well. So Plan A is dead, Plan B just died, and we just learned from GOP-WIP-Steve's police that Plan C they had been looking at, looks doubtful as well. The question tonight is, once again, what now? As seen as Monteraju joins us at the Capitol.
So I wonder what you're hearing from lawmakers, particularly since Steve Scalise is now moving away from an option that was at least out there to try to get this passed on a simple majority. Yeah, look, in fact, the Speaker of the House just addressed reporters moments ago, and I asked him what is the next plan, and he really didn't have any specifics. He said they were gonna regroup, they're gonna trigger, try to figure out what the next steps were, and he attacked Democrats. Even the Republicans also who voted against this plan on the House floor, despite the push from Donald Trump.
Now, one big reason why there were Republicans who voted and defied Donald Trump was his demand, Trump's demand to suspend the national debt limit for two years. Remember, this is something that Congress has to typically deal with every so often, but it is expected to be dealt with next year. But Donald Trump recognized that this will be a complication next year for his agenda, and now demanding the 11th hour to inject this into this government funding fight. Saying it must be addressed right now.
But here's the problem, there are a lot of Republicans who fundamentally oppose raising the national debt limit dealing with that without any spending cuts whatsoever. So as a result, you saw a revolt on the right, and you had some of those members that caught up with Jim, and they expressed why they're concerned with Donald Trump's demands. This just stinks. That's why America doesn't trust government, and it's for good debt memories.
And you said shut it down. That's what it takes to bring us to the table. Any extra supplemental, all the stand on its own merits, not be attached to it, and all to have pay for us. And the debt limit must not be increased without commensurate spending cuts and fiscal reform.
Whenever we're in for office, I said that I would not vote to raise the debt ceiling. And so I never voted to raise the debt ceiling. I mean, I love Donald Trump, but he didn't vote me in the office, my district did. You want to shut it down?
I'm not afraid of a shutdown. And you're hearing some of those members saying they are not afraid to go to a government shutdown. So where does this go from here? Jim, it is really uncertain because the Democrats said they had a deal on the table that Donald Trump essentially forced to collapse.
Then now what? No one really knows, which could mean a shutdown by midnight tomorrow night and a prolonged one at that. Yeah. And those are Republicans saying they're not afraid of a shutdown, which seems to be them owning that they're bringing about a shutdown, even though you have Jay D.
Vance and others blaming those on Democrats. I'm not a roger. Thanks so much. So join me now is Republican Congressman Tom Bacon from Nebraska and he's joining us from Capitol Hill.
Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time tonight. Good evening, Joe. Thanks. With the members of the other party, you voted for bipartisan deals on a number of issues.
And there was a bipartisan deal yesterday killed by it seems mosque and Trump and now Republicans find themselves in this pickle. Was that the mistake there? Killing what was a bipartisan agreement? Yes, Jim, to answer your question to the point.
I think just two or three things that we can take away from this. We have a reasonably good deal. And by the way, you're never going to get a done ceiling increased or CR pass without Democrat support. So we have about 30 Republicans that will not ever support that.
And we've been a tight majority. That means you've got to have some Democrat support, which means you've got to have a bipartisan bill. So that's the first point. The second point, the bill that we had yesterday had a lot of wins for Republicans.
A lot of great things we've been trying to get for two years now. But to get that, we had to give away a couple priorities that the Democrats wanted. I thought it was a reasonably good compromise. The problem was one or two people in our conference, instead of just opposing it, I had to go out and demonize and to store things, provisions in the bill.
So for example, our salaries are $100,000, but they put out, we're going to get $240,000. That wasn't true. That we were going to prevent any kind of investigations on those who served on the J6 committee. That is not in the bill.
I can go on and on. So this stuff was put out by members of our own party. Then you have these social media influencers of the million followers. They pick up on it, and they throw gasoline on the fire.
That's what we had yesterday. So people run away from it. I'm sort of used to it. I'm going to target a lot of these same people.
So Eli Musk took up some of the false data and put that back out there. And this is my third point. If you're on the same side and you don't like what you're hearing, pick up the telephone and call your friend, your ally. Why tweet and throw your ally under the bus?
And I think this could have been easily resolved through a phone call to a speaker Johnson who worked there way through it. Today, I voted for this bill today because it would prevent a shutdown. It was a skinny CR. But I think we're playing a C-side because we don't have the majority of Republican votes for this.
So Plan D is probably going to be something that we had yesterday with basically smaller revisions to it. And we're going to have to work with President Trump on the debt ceiling. And does that mean you're going to have to work with Democrats? In other words, do you see force trading with Democrats to get this cross to finish line?
Jim, by definition, I believe when you're talking about CR or debt ceiling, either one, there's enough Republicans to vote for it. So you have to work across the aisle. This has been Speaker Johnson's dilemma. He knows he has to have some Democrat support to get these things passed.
So that's why he was working across the aisle. And I trust him. He's only going to agree to the Democrat priorities that he can tolerate and live with. And I thought he did a good job.
It got demonized and a lot of lies about it. And I think in the young people will see through it, I believe President Trump today, after hearing the facts, actually thought that what we had yesterday was a reasonably good bill. He just wants to get the debt ceiling modified. So I think we were going to pull President Trump over today to what we were trying to do.
Well, we'll see. I want to talk about the debt limit, because you know House Republicans have repeatedly lambasted Democrats for raising the debt limit. Now they want to suspend it for two years. And by the way, it's a Democrat suspicion.
And listen, some of this is public, because Republicans have been quite public about extending the Trump tax cuts. That is because they want to allow an expanded debt ceiling to what will tax cuts that will add to the deficit. We know that's a CBO estimate. So why should voters believe, including your voters believe, that Republicans actually want to cut spending if they want to suspend the limit for two years, and then pass a big tax cut?
No, I think there's two things. There are one, I do believe in extending the tax cuts, because I think it makes our economy competitive. Like, point of a percent tax rate for businesses is what the average is in the world. We want to go back to 35%, or somewhere higher.
So I do think we want to do that. But I believe in the government to a debt commission, because 72% of our spending is mandatory spending. So security, Medicare, Medicaid, only 28% is discretionary. If you subtracted the entire discretionary budget, all of it, we still have a $800 billion year deficit.
And so we got to get together, Republicans and Democrats, if you're how we're going to preserve Social Security and Medicare, but how does this exploding debt that's coming from the mandatory spending, it can only be done in a bipartisan way. Republicans try to fix it, we'll get killed in an ex-election, and Democrats try to do it by themselves, they'll get killed, they'll get killed. We got to do this together. And I think that commission's the only way to do it.
And we've done it before, but the difference was, we did not have in the previous one that whatever they come up with, you have to put it down the floor for an up or down vote. This commission, you got to have it put on the floor for an up or down vote. Let me ask you about one more measure here, because Congressman Jared Mossowitz, according to sources from CNN, pointed in a Democratic caucus meeting that provisions restrictions rather on US investments in China were removed from the original bipartisan version of the bill. We should note Elon Musk, he's got a lot of investments in China, removing those restrictions would benefit him.
Do you believe that in any way influenced the removal of that provision? Which again, came from the bipartisan bill. I surely hope not. And I only heard that about an hour ago for the first time, by the way.
So I did hear this from one other Democrat. But I think in the end, let's stay big picture here. We should be very careful about what business we do with China. We should restrict our exports.
We should restrict our investments there. They are an adversary. They've got a million Uighurs and slave labor camps and doing forced sterilization. What they're doing at Hong Kong is terrible.
What they're doing at Tibet's terrible. And they're not a good faith trader with us. I mean, they stack the duck against our trade. And so I think we should play hardball with them.
And I think it's a mistake to take those provisions out. Okay, we'll see if it ends up in the final version. If there is one, Congressman Don Bacon, we appreciate you joining us today. Thank you.
Durnings now, Washington Post, Senior Political Correspondent, Ron Nicole, and also CNN Political Commodators, Van Jones and Brad Todd. Good to have you all on, Brad. I might begin with you, you have J.D. Vance and others and Mike Lawler on CNN a short time ago, blaming Democrats for this, despite the fact that, of course, Republicans have the majority of 38 Republicans voted against this.
And as you heard to our monorajou earlier, some Republicans will say, yeah, bring on a shutdown. They don't mind. So do Republicans own this potential shutdown? No, Hakeem Jeffries wants to shut down.
Hakeem, this is what's gonna be called Hakeem's Holiday shutdown. That's what we're gonna call it if it happens. He'll remember just saying they don't build. They'd like to have a shutdown.
Hakeem, they didn't say it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's not a representative sample of the Republicans. He's always gonna have a few outliers. How came Jeffries is for hurricane relief.
He's for payments to farmers. He's for debt limit increase. And he's for CR, keeping the government open. That's what's in this bill.
And pretty much that's all. He's for all of it. It's a very cynical play by Hakeem Jeffries and House Democrats to just try to inflict pain on Republicans politically. They're jeopardizing the entire government in the whole finances of the United States.
It's really disgusting. I mean, I did count 38 Republican votes voting against this bill, Van. Yes, and I did. It will be the Democrats.
And in 150 Democrats. Van, Republicans don't do that majority. Van, that is gonna be the GOP argument here. By the way, there is certainly political danger in Democrats being on board for this, in effect.
I wonder, and it's hard to judge how voters will see this in a couple of years time, but I wonder who do you think would be left with the lion's share of political blame here if the government shuts down? Well, whoever's willing to lie, just like the guy you just had on here. So this is ridiculous. We had a deal and then they blew it up.
And why they blow it up? They didn't blow it up for any good reason, except that there is a cookie jar that has a lid on it. That lid is called debt ceiling. And what Trump apparently wants to do is to take, oh, unscrew that cookie jar and dump out the cookies for billionaires.
That's all that's going on here. There's nothing here that's new, except for out of the clear blue sky in a lame duck session, and something I've never seen before, they throw in the table the debt ceiling. This is bizarre. You can't blame a king of jefries for that, but hey, listen, how much can they lie about?
That's up to the American people, but I'm gonna tell you the honest truth. You have never seen in a lame duck session, the debt ceiling brought up early. There's nothing, you've never dealt with it with a lame duck, you've never dealt with debt ceiling ever. So this is a Donald Trump play.
It inspires James to make sure they get un-cooked cookie jar and dump cookies out for billionaires. It's all going on. There's nothing else happening here. Ron, to that point.
Let me give Ron a chance, and I do certainly want to come back to you, Brad. But to that point, is this really about a looming fight over extending the Trump tax cuts to some degree? Because Trump and Republicans would love to have that leeway so that they don't have that fight when they attempt to extend the tax cuts as one of their priorities once they take over post- inauguration? You know, it could be, and I think we're also trying to figure out what exactly just happened, because if you would have talked to you, a lot of us Hill reporters at the beginning of this week, even probably a month ago, this didn't look like the way that it would shake out.
It looked like this was a done deal. In fact, it really wasn't the big news in the last few weeks since Congress has been back since the election. So the fact that, you know, in a matter of 24 hours, in a deal that had been brokered in a bipartisan way, I think that is something. I really struck with how it all played out.
And the fact that lawmakers today, a lot of them are saying, we don't know what's going on, and we don't know what tomorrow brings. And I know Lumix shut down to something we all use to describe these moments while we're on the brink. But this one feels a little different because it was so unplanned, and it really just came about all of a sudden, and no one knows where they're going to go to next. I seem to follow a tweet from Elon Musk, and then sort of a backup tweet from the president-elect.
Brad, I mean, the cold hard facts are that Republicans have the majority today, and they're gonna have the majority in the House and the Senate, and by the way, the White House will come the end of January. If Republicans wanna get this across the finish line, why don't they whip Republicans to vote this across the finish line? Well, there are women. You're never gonna get 218 Republicans to vote for a debt ceiling increase.
That's just not gonna happen. Democrats, by the way, all say they're for it. They criticize Republicans when they're against it. And the debt ceiling is suspended until January 1, so I would correct van on the notion that it's not out of form here or out of place.
It is time to do it. Now, Congress, the Treasury Department can use extraordinary measures and not have the country hit the debt ceiling until a little later this spring, but it does, is suspended until January 1, is germane to do right now. You did have only two Democrats support this, so only two Democrats wanna keep the government open. The rest of the Democrats wanna shut it down.
That's the clear fact tonight. Yeah, yesterday they did have a deal with the bipartisan deal to keep it open. Van, I wonder about Elon Musk's role in this. And what they had to do, they had to deal with the leadership.
Jim, they had to deal with the leadership. The rank of file is not something. That's not what I'm talking about. We don't work top down.
As I understand about it. No, no, Republicans don't work top down. That's tough, actually. No, no, no, no, hold on a second.
You can't get away with this stuff. There's nothing more top down than Elon Musk sending a text message, a tweet to blow up your deal. That's top down. This was not some grassroots rebellion.
This was Elon Musk. And then, you know, that's more top down. Come on, I love you. We get a lot of time.
It's not time to say. It's a fact that this was a deal until Elon Musk tweeted. And by the way, we should know, and Don Bacon, a Republican sitting member of Congress, brought this up, that in killing this deal, he was Elon Musk sharing falsities about the deal. For instance, saying it wasn't a 3.8% raise.
It was a 40% raise, not true. Even falsities about how RFK stadium ownership in DC would be transferred. Do you worry, Brad, about the influence of Elon Musk? By the way, there's his own skin in the game, including on restrictions on investment in China.
Do you want him to be driving the Republican legislative agenda? Well, I think Elon Musk has got a lot to learn about legislative strategy. I'll give you that. And he was wrong about many things in the bill, including the Commander Stadium.
That's true. And I think he's a rookie at this. A lot of rookies who come in to freshman class in Congress have a lot to learn. And so does he.
But he'll probably learn it. He's a pretty smart guy. I think he'll catch on over time. But let's be clear, the Republicans had to negotiate with the Democrats, in part because you have a few Republicans who will never do this.
The Democrats drove too high a bargain. It couldn't pass among the rank and file. That's just the facts. If you're Hakeem Jeffries or your Chuck Schumer, you can only go for a deal on one of these bills that can actually get the votes on the floor.
This was too fat. Now we're going to end up with something thinner. Maybe it won't be what was on the floor tonight, but it will be something thinner to keep the government open. So, Rhonda, explain how they get to a thinner deal.
And are you confident that they can get to that before midnight and a minute on Friday? I don't know if anyone can be confident at this point, especially from what we're hearing from lawmakers who say they just don't know how this is going to shake out. I don't know if there's a world where, because this vote failed, Speaker Johnson will go back to Trump and say, look, you see the numbers? You see, we can't get this done?
Or will they actually go into a shutdown? That's a real possibility based on what we're hearing tonight. So, we'll see, but I keep telling everyone, this was quite a disruption. And the fact that you have so many, both senators and House members saying they just don't know where this is going, and we've only got another day, that's pretty telling.
No question. And the holidays are coming quickly. Rhonda, Van Jones, Brad, thanks so much for all of you. Particularly as we get close to the holidays ourselves.
Coming up next, the Legion Manjiani's extradition and the new federal charges, he's now facing the execution style murder of a top health insurance executive later. Striking new development in the wake of the Madison, Wisconsin school shooting. What court documents reveal about the teenage killer and her contact with a 20 year old was a second attack in the works. I'm CNN tech reporter Claire Duffy.
This week on the podcast, Terms of Service, the idea of riding in a car with no driver can feel daunting. And this technology raises questions about safety and the future of transportation. That's why I'm here with Nicole Gable, head of business development and strategic partnerships at WeMo. We've always been about safety.
No distracted driving, no drunk driving. WeMo follows the rules of the road. Listen to CNN's Terms of Service, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr.
Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast. Over half of adult over 65 are living with multiple chronic diseases. Many of them are on four or five different medications. They're living alone.
Sometimes the screen is the only voice they hear all day. So it's understandable to me, but I also am concerned because what this does is it crowds out opportunity for real life connection, for exercise, for time and nature. I'm gonna be talking with board certified psychiatrist, Dr. Sue Varma.
She's gonna help us understand what is driving this, what to look for, if you're starting to worry about someone else's screen usage in your own life. 60% of the time the phone usage is positive when it has to do with photo sharing, video sharing and keeping in contact with people. Listen to Chasing Life, streaming now, wherever you get your podcasts. Just two weeks in a day, since UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson was gunned down on a Midtown Manhattan sidewalk, his alleged killer, Luigi Manjiani, is spending his first night in a federal jail cell in Brooklyn.
Because today on top of the state murder charges, he was already facing the federal government, unexpectedly got in on the legal action. See, then some Chamon Prokopez and Keris Canel have been covering the story for us tonight. Let's begin with Chamon's report. An extraordinary scene, 26-year-old Luigi Manjiani shackled wearing an orange jumpsuit, his first time back in New York City, since police say he fled.
After UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson was horrifically gunned down outside of Manhattan Hotel on December 4th, Manjiani evading police for days before eventually being arrested out of McDonald's in Pennsylvania. Today surrounded by NYPD detectives and FBI agents wearing bulletproof vests and carrying long guns, even new mayor Eric Adams was there, addressing the support Manjiani has received. Don't use a gun and anyone that celebrates that. It's wild and it is sitting the wrong message and you celebrate it, you took behind this assault initiative.
The World Wind Day beginning in Pennsylvania with Manjiani leaving prison for the Blair County Courthouse, where he waved extradition. We relinquished him to the custody of the New York City Police Department. He was placed in a black SUV and immediately taken to the airport and was flown by an NYPD plane to Long Island. From there, he was put on an NYPD chopper to downtown Manhattan.
His attorneys believed Manjiani would be appearing for state charges but were redirected to a federal courthouse where Manjiani faces charges of murder through use of a firearm, stalking and a firearms offense. His attorney, Karen Friedman Agnifolo, saying in court that this was a quote, highly unusual situation that she'd never seen in 30 years of practicing law. She also said she had never seen a situation play out like this and asked for clarification on whether federal and state prosecutors are conducting two separate investigations. The federal complaint revealing new details about what Manjiani allegedly wrote in a notebook found on him when he was arrested.
An entry marked August 15 said, quote, the details are finally coming together and the target is insurance because it checks every box. Another entry in October, quote, describes an intent to quote, whack the CEO of one of the insurance companies at its major investor conference. Manjiani also facing 11 state accounts in New York, including first and second degree murder. Manhattan district attorney Alvin Bragg saying both cases will proceed.
Speaking generally, we've had state prosecutions and federal prosecutions proceed as parallel matters and we're in conversations with our law enforcement counterparts. What a journey for the former high school valedictorian, Chamon, Protepez joins us also seeing as Keros Kinaud who's in the courtroom for proceeding today. Chamon, first, what can you tell us about where what kind of cell Manjiani is being held in tonight? Yeah, so it's in Brooklyn, as you said, it's called the MDC, the Metropolitan Detention Center.
It's the only detention center that's left in this area in New York City. It's housed other very famous prisoners. Currently there is Sean Combs, P. Diddy.
He's there awaiting trial here in Manhattan as well. Elaine Maxwell, the woman who was convicted after her relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, of course everyone will remember, she was housed there while she was on trial. She had complained about the conditions. Look, the conditions there have been known by many of the people who criticized that facility.
They say that the conditions where there is no water at times, there were issues with heat at one point years ago. And also just recently, there were indictments against inmates who were trying to kill other inmates. And also spot checks now are often happening at that jail. So there are a lot of known issues and certainly it won't be perhaps a very comfortable time for Luigi Manjiani.
I don't know, Carrie, you were inside that courtroom today a chance to see Manjiani tell us what it was like. The whole hearing lasted only 15 minutes and Manjiani had traded that orange jumpsuit for some street clothes, he was wearing khakis, a pullover, an navy blue shirt. He was brought into the courtroom by the marshals and he was shackled at his ankles but he kept his hands in front of him, joined his attorney sitting between them. He didn't have any outburst like we had seen when he was being transferred into the Pennsylvania courthouse that one time.
And instead he sat there, he answered the judges questions just briefly by saying yes a few times when she asked him if he understood his rights and if he understood exactly what he was being charged with, you know both times he said yes. Now his lawyer though did stand up and say raising these questions about the state charges and the federal charges. She said in all of her years practicing in New York, she had never seen an instance where she started the day with an appointment to go to state court where she expected him to be arraigned on the state charges and then having to divert and change tactics and come to federal court to face federal charges. She also said that she thought that these two charges were in conflict and questioned if authorities were even working together because she said the state charges were saying that he committed murder with the purpose of instilling terror and she said the federal charges were about stalking an individual.
So already perhaps laying out some of the defense tactics that she might deploy, the judge saying that today that was not the time for this and the man's duties team didn't seek a bail package so he is in custody and will remain there until she does move to do that. Now you know at this point Jim though, he is going to be in federal court. They set a holding date for him to return in January but it is more likely that there will be an indictment at that time he was charged by complaint today and then he will be arraigned on those federal charges Jim. You'll be there watching Keras, she won't put your business well, thanks so much.
Next our legal team weighs in on just what Luigi Mangionius now up against in both state and federal court. Luigi Mangionius in federal, not state custody tonight facing fresh and largely unexpected charges on top of the first and second degree state murder counts among others, a New York grand jury has indicted him on. Respective now from senior legal analyst, Ellie Honig also defense attorney Donia Perry, like Ellie, she's a former federal prosecutor. We should also know that Karen Friedman Agnifolo, the suspect's attorney, used to be affiliated with her law firm.
So again, John Miller joins us too as does New York City Judge, George Grasso. Good to have you all on John. I wanna begin with you because you're learning new details about this tug of war to some degree between federal and state prosecutors. Well, that's right.
And what we've been following today, and really since last night is kind of a tug of war between the United States Attorney, the federal prosecutor in Manhattan, the place where Ellie Honig used to work, and the Manhattan District Attorney. So this morning, they were set up with barricades in front of 100th Center Street, the state courthouse. The judge was up on the 13th floor, arranging where a camera would be to shoot the arraignment. There was a special arraignment to a book to the prisoner in the District Attorney's office.
And by mid-morning they found out he wasn't coming to be arraigned in state court by the District Attorney on an indictment of felony murder charges, including murder in the first degree. Instead, he was taken into custody by the NYPD, handed over to the FBI, and he was going to federal court. And this was hastily arranged, caused a lot of confusion. But what you're not seeing, and this is important to note, is, and we've kind of seen this before in other cases, any kind of battle between the FBI and the NYPD on who gets the arrest.
What you're seeing is federal prosecutors going for a jump wall on this case. The federal prosecutors using kind of a unique charge to go after a murder, which is usually a state charge. And interestingly, the state prosecutors using what is usually a federal charged terrorism. Yeah, notable.
OK, Don, your criminal defense attorney, as well as a former federal prosecutor, it struck me as Shimano noted there, that we heard something of a potential line of argument from Angioni's defense attorney, noting the differences between these two cases, the New York state charges, with a terrorism enhancement for causing fear, or attempting to strike fear among the population. And the federal one had a stalking element to that. I wonder, as a defense attorney, do you see an opening there for the defense to say, hey, these two are somehow conflicting? I'd like to say that I do, as a defense attorney, and as a former colleague and friend of Karen Ignifalo's.
But there's really no tension, really, to exploit at all. The federal and the state charges can be largely overlapping. They could really actually be the same, because there are two different sovereigns. They could be wildly different.
And there's no basis. There's no defense or legal argument that I could think of. So analytically, it's kind of interesting. And that's true.
And what was just said is also true, that typically the terrorism charge is a federal one, and stalking is a state one. It's all a little muddled right now, as you said, I think I was doing a podcast with Karen, but in the morning, she still thought she was going to arraign in state court. And so there's a lot up in the air, a lot of unknowns. But I think that one was just almost more looking, comparing, contrasting the two charging instruments and saying, interesting, but of no moment legally.
Ali, some have raised questions about the risk, given the enormous and somewhat shocking outpouring of support from Angioni in the wake of this horrible cold blooded murder, concern about jury nullification in this, where in which case of jury might say, we have an influence towards conviction, but we're still not going to convict him. What is your level of concern about that as a possibility? Jim, I was always worried about jury nullification. Even in the most routine cases I handled as a prosecutor, all it takes is one juror, and you have a hung jury.
So it's always the kind of thing that keeps prosecutors up at night. And yes, the risk here absolutely is elevated. I've never seen an outpouring of affection and support for a defendant charged with a vicious murder, like we have in this case. However, I want to say a couple things.
One, the jury selection process is really effective, not perfect, but really effective at weeding out people who are biased. We saw it in the Trump trial. We saw half of the jury just got up and walked out, because they felt they were too biased. The other thing is it's one thing to pop off on social media to post a meme or something.
It's another thing to sit through weeks of evidence about someone who shot someone in the back to get a jury instruction from a judge like Judge Grasso, who tells you your job is to apply the law, and then to nullify. So yes, you have to be aware of it, but there are important systemic controls here against it. And listen, every time that video comes up, as we just showed it there, it's an planning that went into it. And what we're learning about is manifesto saying, right, this will take a lot of boxes and to whack an insurance executive, I mean, it speaks to planning.
I wonder, George Grasso, I want to play a clip of something that Karen Friedman Agnifolo said on this program last week about Manjioni's possible defense, another potential line of defense. I showed note this was before she was announced as attorney. Have a listen. The evidence is going to be so overwhelming that he did what he did.
And I hear what you're saying about being radicalized. I hear what you guys are saying. But as a former prosecutor in that office, I would be concerned that you have someone who's a valid attorney in this class. He was brilliant his whole life.
He comes from his great family. Something changed, right? Significantly, something changed. And they're going to, I think, potentially have a not guilty by reason of insanity.
Potential defense. She's now a lawyer, George Grasso. Do you see that as a potential line of defense? Well, I know Karen well and I respect her, but frankly, I don't see it here.
The reason I don't see it is because there's so much publicly available information. Like for example, I read the federal complaint today and a lot of other data. This is a very careful and methodically planned event. Remarkable.
And credit to the NYPD is that they were able to put in hundreds, if not thousands of hours, to make an almost reverse documentary of the actions of this individual. Well, to show insanity to the level that he would be excused criminally, I think, as a long shot. I also think it's really bad news for Luigi Mangione and good news for the rule of law. The action that the federal government took today, because that brings this case to a whole nother level.
Because the murder charge involves there. People aren't really talking about that too much. Involves it. The death penalty is not available in the state of the middle.
And it also involves a methodology of using the stalking laws to weave in murder. I think it's pretty much right down the middle of the plate based on the evidence as we have now. On the other hand, Alvin Bregg, who will have to take a back seat here? He can talk all he wants to get press conferences that they're going to move on parallel tracks.
They're not going to move on parallel tracks. The federal government is going to dictate the pace. And Bregg, I think he made the right move using terrorism to get to murder one. But that's kind of untested at this level.
And if he got a conviction, which certainly got to the court of appeals. So for a lot of reasons, it makes perfect sense for the rule of law for the federal government to go first, use all the leverage that they have with this being a death penalty case. Bregg takes a back seat. We see what happens there.
And ultimately, we have justice. And anyone who thinks the mangy only is a hero really needs a psychiatrist. I can't find anything heroic when stalking a man and shooting him in the back. A father or two, right?
As well. So it's just remarkable to see that. So common. Donia, do you see it playing out similarly here that the feds have the upper hand now?
Yeah. I agree with the judge. The feds usually win that tug-of-war. We saw both acting US Attorney Edward Kim and District Attorney Alan Bragg, who grew up together at the attorney's office, actually speaking very nicely as colleagues.
But we're going to run in parallel tracks. But in practice and in reality, that is not going to be the case. I do agree that the feds will surely go first. Even though I first blush, you would think they seem more suited to state charges.
But when that's bumped up to first degree murder, I agree as well with the judge. I guess on everything. But that makes it a lot harder and therefore easier for the feds to go first. One thing I would say, Jim, is at the statement that they issued it from the US Attorney today, they said that the current plan, so they left it qualified that the state case, the DA's case, would go first.
But that leaves them a lot of room to negotiate for pleas in both cases and to package them together. Yeah, it's a high profile case, right? Folks, you're going to want to be on the lead. Thanks so much to all of you.
Appreciate it. Coming up next, we're getting more details on tonight's failed effort to avert a government shutdown tomorrow night. And what, if anything, the Republicans who tanked the latest spending deal plan to do next? Do they have a plan?
We have new developments to bring you in the wake of tonight's campaign to head off a government shutdown. A remarkable 38 GOP members voted no tonight, just a day, after Elon Musk and President-elect Trump blew up what was a bipartisan bill. Let's go back now to Monoraju on Capitol Hill. Monu, I wonder what's been happening in the little less than an hour since we last spoke.
Well, actually the House has gone for the night, Jim. In fact, this means that we are going hour by hour, we're inching closer to a shutdown with no way to avert it at the moment. The Speaker of the House right now is in his office, he's meeting with Republicans, trying to figure out if there is any way forward. The Speaker himself tonight did not indicate what that path is.
And I've talked to a lot of Republican members, senior Republicans. They are at a loss about how they resolve this issue, because of the late demands made by Donald Trump, namely to suspend the national debt limit that for two years. That's something that Republican conservative members in Johnson's own conference, and they will absolutely not accept. They want deep spending cuts.
And we have Democrats who say they're not going to allow to move ahead with that because they believe doing so will make it easier to advance the Trump agenda next year. So then what does that mean? That means Donald Trump will have to change his posture, back off his demands. Maybe Mike Johnson wants to try to defy Donald Trump, but that can come at some major risk for his own speakership, or perhaps there's some sort of bipartisan deal that can be reached in the 11th hour.
That is going to be a huge question, as we head into tomorrow where House Democrats are planning to convene behind closed doors tomorrow morning, Jim, trying to figure out their strategy going forward. But at the moment, there is no clear solution inside. As a shutdown looms in midnight tomorrow night, it can drag on for some time, Jim. King Jeffries has said Democrats are not going to bail Republicans out of this, but do you think it's possible after a meeting tomorrow if they get enough in return that there could be a resurrection of a bipartisan agreement?
It's hard to see exactly what that is, Jim, because the issue about the debt ceiling is so significant. That is such a complex, complicated issue. And if the King Jeffries were to get in on that issue, that would take away a key point of leverage that Democrats want to use in the next year. If they were to concede on that right now, then it would be easier to pass Donald Trump's tax cuts if he wasn't ready to push forward in the new year.
And the tax cut plan is going to be vigorously opposed by Democrats. So that's going to be a huge question. And typically, these negotiations, Jim, as you know, they take weeks, they take months to happen in a day for something that complex seems highly, highly unlikely. So unless there's a quick resolution to say, one week, continuing resolution to keep the government open for a week or a few days, it's hard to see how it's shut down is not avoided by tomorrow night.
Yeah, listen, and by the way, they're going to have a smaller, as you know, a smaller majority following into the new year than they have even now. Just curious, will they be working through the weekend? Because I know members of Congress like nothing more than to get on a plane home. Yeah, right now they've told their members, leadership has not to leave town, Jim.
So they are hoping that members will stay in town, but some may leave and that could lead to some attendance issues, particularly if there is a close vote. But members are a lot of them are way bracing to be here, maybe up until Christmas, Jim. Well, that means you're going to be working too, Mono. Thanks so much.
Unfortunately, yes. Still ahead, new details on the Wisconsin School shooting and the possible link between the shooter there and a California man who was already saying was planning a second attack along with the team. Plus, we're learning about the victims. That's coming up.
We are learning new details tonight about the 15 year old girl who killed a fellow student and a teacher at a Christian school in Wisconsin just this past Monday. Investigators are looking into a possible link between her and a California man who authorities claim was planning another attack. Cine's Whitney Wilde has more. The 15 year old girl police say shot and killed two people and wounded six more at Abundant Life Christian School in Wisconsin appears to have been in contact with a 20 year old man in California.
That according to court records obtained by CNN. Alexander Paffendorf of Carlsbad, California was plotting a mass shooting with the team and told FBI agents during an interview that he would arm himself with explosives and a gun and that he would target a government building. I've only seen him a few times. He's real quiet.
I'm just glad that the cops and everybody FBI whoever was on top of it and into his skin to the bottom of it before anything bad happened. A California judge has issued a gun violence emergency protective order under the state's red flag law against Paffendorf. According to the order FBI agents saw the messages between him and the teen. It also demands Paffendorf give up his guns in any ammunition within 48 hours unless police take them sooner.
Couple hours into it towards the end, they're carrying out a big black box. It looked like a gun case of some sort. It's still not clear if he's in custody or if he will face charges. The FBI is not commenting.
Cine has also reached out to Paffendorf but hasn't heard back. In Wisconsin, new details emerging about the shooting. Police now say two guns were recovered at the school but won't say who owns them or how she got them. Meanwhile, four people injured in the shooting are now home while two other students are still fighting for their lives in the hospital.
A local pastor saying that one of them needs a miracle. It still means the family. As the community and the police search for answers we're learning more about those killed. Fourteen year old Ruby Vergara was an avid reader, a talented artist and singer, according to an obituary written far too soon.
42 year old Erin West was the substitute coordinator and in-house substitute teacher, sophomore Mackenzie Wilson says she was beloved. She was a really good person. She really loved her kids and she really, really loved everyone at our school and she would have done anything for them. Her mom, Lindsay O'Connor, a former student here, says their legacies will live on.
They're integrated into our lives and they will be forever remembered. Jan, we've reached out to the school as well as the police department to find out more details about those children who remain in the hospital. We have not heard any further detail other than to say that yes, they are still in the hospital. Jan, back to you.
Those poor people and their families. Whitney Wilde, thanks so much. And the news continues. The source with Caitlin Collins starts right now.
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