Jay and I talk an awful lot on the show about keeping moisture out and controlling humidity in the home once it's actually in there But how do you actually go about doing that when building a new home? Well today? We're gonna hear from an expert. We're gonna hear from the CEO of Seiga North America and Seiga manufacturers custom tapes high-performance wraps To keep that humidity out then we'll take a couple questions from the mailbag today on non-toxic environments Welcome back to non-toxic environments.
Jay good to be with you this week. This is actually kind of an interesting show for us Tell me how Andy well the other day. I'm on the phone with Etienne go play with Seiga Seiga tapes and and building wraps and so forth Say that name again Seiga. No, I see the other name.
That was really good French. What was that Etienne Etienne go play? Perfect. Wow.
Okay, and I know I'm excited Okay, I know Etienne is correct I'm probably slaughtering his last name and at the end of you listening when you are listening. I apologize My French is not very good Etienne and I were discussing his products And I thought I'm gonna hit record do you mind it record and so it was a really good a really good interview Just talking about the high-performance building industry and how their products kind of fold into it Yeah, I want to hear it. I want to hear it. Well, all right Tell you what I'm let's hit play and you can let me know what you think so here it is.
Okay, Etienne It's so good to have you on the show today here in non-toxic environments I've been really interested in speaking with you for quite a while now ever since one of my clients introduced me to your products probably close to a year ago and we found that the idea of using custom tapes custom wraps and so forth at home to eliminate mold eliminate air and water intrusion the idea is not Good timing because we have a lot of projects throughout the country right now that are kind of at the stage But we're looking at this as really the wave of the future the wave of the building future. So First of all, thank you for coming on the show today. Thank you for having me Andy And if you can just give everybody a brief synopsis of what Siga is all about and a little bit of history of the company Yeah, absolutely. Well, once again, thanks for having me and for the opportunity to be here today So Sico is a Swiss family business that was founded in 1966 and We have one clear mission and vision that unites all of us and we strive for a world of zero energy loss buildings So this has been a part of our journey from the from the get-go And so I couldn't agree more with what you just said that you know times are changing right now and what's also changing is the environment We do need to act we have to really start thinking about how can we build more sustainable for the future so that there is a future a livable future And therefore I'm once again really thrilled that we can have the conversation You know it for all of our listeners who have been tuning in for you know our 70 some episodes We all know that my focus has always been on health of the human occupants But in that process as we talk about things like energy efficiency and global environmental concerns as I've always said those two items are also very important and this is one of those products I believe our product lines it sort of dips into all of those aspects of green so it's not just human friendly, but it's environmentally friendly energy efficiency and so That's why I believe this is a fantastic topic for today.
So if I may kind of jump right into it with with Siga one of the most Pocked about issues right now is the use of spray foam insulation in building Especially residential construction and again Our listeners know that I'm not a fan of spray foam because of the inherent toxicity of it But one of the reasons why the building community is really promoting spray foam is because it helps to seal in gaps It helps to take care of some issues during construction that are just problematic for builders And I see this is a perfect opportunity for your product So do you think that the use of the Siga products would allow us to get beyond spray foam eliminate the spray foam and go to Other ways of insulating our homes? Yes, I do believe that I think if we look at the spray foam and in in the relation relationship to our products We kind of have to separate okay, so it's brain foam as an insulator Right and spray foam as an air sealing strategy as an insulator and that's probably your explanation by the industry Currently still really likes to promote the product or use the product because you get quite a high our value per inch Spray from that's kind of I people everyone loves it because you can build small sling balls. They're cheaper. They give you relatively high our value So in that regards that's gonna be a little bit more challenging to come up with without a product It's totally totally doable.
I mean my concern and I would focus at see because you're a tape manufacturer make tapes You make membranes to air seal homes and from an airtime is point if you I have a few points concerns with spray foam in general and in particular two things that can happen with spray foam is spray foam or foam in general cracks over time and I'm not talking about Year one I'm talking about 20 30 40 years down the line and also something that actually a lot of the foam manufacturers Will tell you their phone shrinks. Okay over time So now if you feel a cavity with your phone and you rely on that on on being your airtight seal Then that stuff can shrink and you can't crack because if that happens You will automatically introduce early get into your building. So that's kind of where the the taping has as an Durability advantage for sure. Mm-hmm.
Now and that's a really a great segue here You know we've been discussing on previous episodes of the show the idea of doing things such as I'm a big fan of formaldehyde free fiberglass And I really like the blown in blanket systems that are available now and in order to make those Really effective you have to still go through the process of air sealing all of the The typical you know penetrations where wood meets wood And it could be a you know uneven Joint and again This is where spray foam helps the builders because they see it fills it all up as you say 20 30 years later Well when it thinks shrink a little bit those gaps now become problematic again So does sega make products that can be used in a blown in blanket system where you can literally tape all of those Connections or those potential air intrusion points before the insulation process Yes, absolutely and you just mentioned the most crucial point before the insulation process and if we talk about air tightness actually We need a talk before we start framing okay That's extremely important because you can make your life so much easier by having your air strategy figured out before you start to frame And with a few tricks You can actually avoid a lot of the added labor that can happen if you just basically have completely framed your house And then you start thinking about air tightness so to answer your question and yeah, absolutely we do have tapes we have interior vaporitarders and I'm gonna talk about them a little bit later that can be used in combination with blowing insulation such as blowing cellulose or the formaldehyde free fiberglass that you just mentioned and so yeah, there are three major strategies and If we talk about air sealing and I can make it very simple you can either have your air barrier interior of your wall, okay, so that would be for example if you use a vapor control layer like a vaporitarder On the inside of your of your starts Option one option number two is you can have a so-called mid-ball air barrier You could have your you can use your sheeting and tape your sheeting and that's where you're dedicated air barrier For example, some of your lessons may have heard of hubrisic, you know something like that That's that's kind of mid-air Very mid-wall air barrier that they would use or you can use you can take OSB or something like or plywood Or you can also have your air barrier outside of your walls on an exterior with a by utilizing a weather system barrier or Any other materials that will then go go on top so these are your three options and so here up here in the upper Midwest It's it's a building code that you have to have a vapor barrier on the warm side of the insulation So it's got to be on the inside of the insulation before you erect your drywall, right? But then very commonly what's happens is you've got your exterior sheathing whichever product you use and then builders will use just a you know a common building wrap that You know by definition or theoretically it keeps wind out right and it keeps rain out But we all know that these these homes under construction are left open to the elements for a few weeks or longer before your siding goes up And the building wrap start to lose their effectiveness because the wind gets gets Adam It starts to tear a little bit you'll get wind driven rain between the seams and so What happens is moisture gets into that cavity wall? Mm-hmm, and now you've got a vapor barrier on the inside a vapor sort of a tartar on the outside with the building wrap and a lot of moisture in the cavity And so ideally what we would like to do is and there's two schools of thought here one is to build a wall That's completely airtight the others to build a wall that breathes Absolutely. I think that comes down to where in North America your building because I think it changes from region to region Yes, but you know what are your thoughts on that if we were to use a sega product on the outside as a vapor retarder Yeah, I know you've got some larger membranes that can do that correct?
So here I have to say we currently have We do not have an exterior vapor retarder. Okay our current portfolio Okay, the majority of our products are used in mild to cold climates Okay, I'm glad that are heating dominated such as where you are right now, right? So where you have cold winters and so I'm talking about I would like to dress with you Just said you basically have two thoughts of school or you can be breathable walls or non breathable walls Yes, build non breathable walls. This is kind of playing part of the comparison with scan thing Russian roulette, you know Right, and it can go it can go very well and nothing happens or you can actually have a big big problem Because if you have a leak in a non-permeable wall that moisture will stay in there and it has no chance to really get out and You know your structure can actually run away.
So that's kind of what we don't want But we really promote and all our products are very clearly designed for that other world the breathable wall the permeable wall And so here's also some of the differences and I have to make sure that we get the terminology right, okay So and you can absolutely work with multiple air-tinas layers That's that's so you can have more than one dedicated air barrier in your ball as long as You have a more permeable layer on the outside. That's that's very important. So I Let me give you an example if you use a very permeable Bed resistive barrier on the exterior of the wall and then on the interior of you all use one of those smart vape retarders You may have heard of it If you if you use that combination you and you tape all the seams and everything and be totally recommend you to do that tape it on the inside Tape it on the outside you will actually have two air barriers, but they are these are not Vapor barriers, okay, they are vapor permeable So that moisture can actually leave your cavity to the outside and in summer when the diffusion comes when it's more bad than humid on the outside Okay, you all can also drive back So that's kind of the best case scenario in my opinion if you can build a permeable wall that allows that is designed to really maximize the Outward drying we want this moisture to go out But you have a little bit of backup land by using or utilizing a smart membrane But if there ever is a moisture in the wall during those summer days that it can also drive back So that will be best. So that brings up a really interesting question I believe is we've dealt with a couple of projects across the country where the HVAC systems were specifically designed to create a amount of pressure that pushes against the walls and pushes the moisture out And so as you're talking you want it to dry to the outside And so with your products this actually would be a very good scenario To use that type of an HVAC system along with your products to facilitate that Well, I think at the end of the day That pressure is generated.
I mean, it's a physical process, you know Because basically if you have a warm humid climate, let's say you have a winter scenario And you have a cold exterior that moisture will automatically move it always flows from the warmer more humid to the colder and drier Environment that's the diffusion flow. So that will happen anyways. Yeah, but you're describing to me sounds like almost over-pressurizing your home a little bit I don't I don't fully know about that that comfort and where the air the air would come from I mean, I guess that that would be kind of a big one and then keep in mind if this would be the system be rely on Air goes always both ways, right? So if you can go out it can come in right well, and that's that's the key really is to In construction is to control sort of when and where that air comes in and if we know that if we plan for that then You can design a structure that will Be standing a hundred years from now If you know and that's really goes back to the way we used to build homes when everything was sort of open We didn't really care about air tightness and then all of a sudden in the in the late 90s early 2000s Builders decided to start tightening up the homes I mean something happening in the 70s with the oil embargo in commercial construction, but in residential it really started to To be done earnest in the in the late 90s early 2000s But what what builders forgot about is the fact that oh, yeah, there are humans living inside of this house And they actually need fresh air and so that's when they started incorporating the use of energy recovery ventilators to bring in that fresh air and so What you said just earlier, you know really struck something for me, which is Ideally in a in a perfect world if we could build walls that were guaranteed 100% airtight That would be the best way to build because you could specifically control when and where fresh air came into the building But because we can't because the know the laws of physics don't allow for it Mm-hmm.
We have to then do our best to make sure that the walls properly breathe Right and that's where your products really come in well Absolutely, I think you know, you and and if you if you allow me to to segue little bit you didn't mention though a mold Yes And I think mold is a very important topic that we should talk about and you know just for fun Let's let's let's look at how you know, let's look at mold quickly and I call it the recipe for mold Yes, how do we make good mold? We need three major ingredients? Okay, we need a food source a good food source will be cellulose and I mean a lot of things have cellulose in it I mean, you're talking about mainly wooden frame buildings. There is already something it could be your insulation It can be your drive-all I mean, there's there's a ton of potential food sources that we have next we need is moisture Okay, and moisture can come in either through leaks It can come if we have a very high humidity level or it can also you can introduce moisture into our walls if we have condensation And then last but not least we need oxygen.
Okay, so we need some air in order for that mold to grow and usually we need an airflow For those mold spores to to to start sitting on on our surface, right? So if you look at mold and you mentioned early on early days air sealing unfortunately people didn't fully Understand enough about it, right? And they in good faith sealed up their homes like made them super airtight They they kind of two mistakes right mistake number one was they trapped themselves with some very harmful chemicals You know, it was kind of airtightness above whatever we how we get there, you know kind of like the spray foam scenario I mean, I don't want to talk bad about spray foam, but I mean there are definitely spray foams out there They are very chemical and they off gas, so that's that's not that's not great for you Especially if you're sensitive to to to these chemicals Then it's just kind of hey, you just trapped yourself out. Congratulations.
You're home super airtight in the beginning, right? But now you see in this chemical chamber, you know, so but that being said so back in the days they made it super airtight and The issue that that I see is They didn't fully understand on that as I said you trap something and if there is ever any moisture getting into those walls that It can't dry up now. Maybe you didn't have a leak But guess what everybody who ever framed the home knows the wood is pretty wet when we build it You know, you move into your house your house is not dry, you know, they maybe call it it's dry It's not it takes more than a year in some case up to three years for a house fully to dry out So you basically just enclosed that moisture and that's sitting there right now so And you mentioned perfect airtight is difficult right to achieve and yeah, there you go So what can happen so how do we and let me just jump in there for a second because this is again a common theme in our podcast is that you know the average home that's built today has anywhere between 400 to 600 gallons of moisture in the air and that's just from the Building process the building materials as you say, right and Knowing that construction is taking longer right now because of you know, labor shortages and material delays and so forth These homes are open to the elements for weeks if not months longer than normal You get three four five days of rain and then the first sunny day that comes though They'll start slapping on the side in the roofing and all that moisture is locked in those those cavities And so you're exactly right I mean as much as we'd love to say that homes are being built using kiln dried wood and it just doesn't happen and we're We're finding just as a side note here. We're finding lumber arriving to job sites already with mold on it and And and the framers are just using it because well, that's that's a material.
That's that's what I'm gonna use right and so You talk about having a recipe for mold Well, you know one of the main ingredients is the actual mold spores themselves and the framers are literally building that into your walls And so it's even more crucial to have the ability to get the moisture out right right so yeah for me I mean first of all don't let any moisture in in regards to use a very high quality weather assist if barrier tape that barrier Think about all connections that you have be aware of penetrations that go through that vapor through that moisture barrier to really make sure that you know Look if you just put up a let's say a building paper or a self of your membrane or something like that And you start to drill like a bunch of holes in it and nail in it Just think about what this is going to do You know what's gonna happen if ever any moisture gets behind my siding and there that's possible So you have to think about them you have to address those penetrations and tape them properly just to ensure that you won't get any leakages You know So I think that's an important one and then the second point for me is really how do you avoid Condensation in your ball, okay, and that's kind of when it gets more more tricky because then we have to talk about You know how much insulation are you using are we really are we sure if you don't have a major thermal bridges? Generally speaking for our climates by using exterior continuous insulation you can already eliminate a lot of the thermal bridging happening So that's kind of like a more or less an easy fix in some parts. It's cold if you need this exterior insulation So that helps right But then also thinking about well What about the moistest source that we have from the interior and here once again I come back to our smart vaporitarders or Or some sort and if we talk about interior vaporitarders, right? I've I think what's important for for everyone here is listening today to understand is that there are different ways on how you do this You can rely for example on your paint as being your vaporitarder slash air barrier, right?
But as soon as you start hanging pictures or you start to do stuff and you start penetrating that quote-quote finished Layer you're already like damaging that You're breaking that you're breaking that seal breaking that seal that's right exactly you're breaking that seal and I mean I've moved into different places I never really consciously thought about oh actually that's my that's my vaporitard my air barrier here He's one thing that will happen with all that water pressure that we have as soon as we start of all the water that we have in our home You mentioned 4-6 on a gallon is a lot of moisture Or just generally when we breathe and cook and dry clothes and shower and whatever we do right we generate moisture So that moisture once we heat the room that generates a ginormous pressure Okay, and convection so convection is the transportation of like hot humid air through air, right? For example, if you cook water and then the steamerizes and carries water we call this that's convection, right? Mm-hmm. This is what we are most worried about and actually one of the biggest reasons for building damage Because if you don't properly air seal you let's say for example a shower or something like that That's so much moisture every day that can get into your wall and if that that warm air that moisture air finds a cold surface You end up with condensation mm-hmm And that is one of the biggest problems when we talk about mold Avoiding condensations in your structure well in here in Wisconsin in the last February it got down to 40 50 60 below zero at night for a period of a week Imagine your everyday living in this home cooking showering do washing clothes Just perspiring in the home that moisture has got to go somewhere as you say and imagine the that cold temperature from the outside of the home pushing Just doing everything I can to push through your walls Now the folks this is why you you get even with new windows in a new home You'll get condensation on the glass on the inside of the glass because there's so much moisture in the home older homes that condensation Especially in winter time turns to frost or ice This is what's happening inside your walls, but you just don't see it and in springtime when everything warms up water starts to collect and as was just stated moments ago that Process can occur if you've got the right environment to create mold in the wall.
So The last thing I want to touch on because this is really interesting information and I will definitely link to Sega in the show notes. We want to make sure all of our listeners have good information on this But one thing I want to touch on to sort of end this is There this is a this doesn't seem to me like rocket science. This seems to be something that The general public who are interested in building a new home or builders themselves can Understand these materials and these methods very simply however the problem we have in our industry is the Somewhat refusal of the building community to adopt anything that they consider to be different And as we know right now and I'll use Wisconsin as our example here here. It has to be a Plastic vapor barrier visqueen on the inside of the insulation before your drywall on the outside.
It's it's OSB in a building wrap If if we had clients who wanted to move over to your products which are smarter more technologically advanced Are you gonna face a backlash from the building community or have you and how have you sort of combat that? Yeah, that's a very good. That's a very good question I mean, I would say generally speaking as always and with everything in life whenever we as humans need to change or change is happening or something new comes You have kind of two types of people the ones that fight it and the ones that embrace it I would say the embraces are definitely not the majority And so have you had backlash? No, not really bad I think and I really want to give also credits to some of or many of the builders out there I got to meet here in North America There are a lot of folks who really want to do a job who are very proud of their their work They're doing and doing a fantastic job in in trying to wrap their head around it's a lot to take in It's it's the market is crazy crazy saturated.
There are so many different players many almost thought schools And I think it's hard to navigate for for builders in general what to use and what's good to use To start with and overall my my observation is once we present them our products They see kind of that they are easy to work with you're not really reinventing the wheel We just I think we are very detail oriented and that's what you need in order to build a good home You have to think about all connection details. There is no room for just improvising on the chop side air tightness is something you have air tightness and then of course the whole that's called vapor and moisture management These are these are concepts you have to figure out before you start to build you need to know what are you building? How are you building it? How will this wall work?
And I always say challenge the status quo I know the Wisconsin wall as you described it's it's still standing and in some case nothing happened, right? But there are better better walls out there and I think if there is a push from the homeowner Who's involved who wants to build a passive house? Maybe go that route or says hey, I can't I don't want that foam inside of my home I rather want like more natural products I want something healthier or I'm you're forced to because of allergies That's usually when people start to pay much more attention And I mean you're here we love these conversations We have a team of 15 employees in the US and in Canada and this is for me kind of daily business walking people through You know through through the product line and talking about different details connections people send us their plans and ask about hey How do I see you there's how do I do that? We have a huge online resource on our homepage that you know people can download for free some details We've created these really awesome system guidelines that you know with 3D renderings and just really to kind of take the guesswork out of it As much as possible.
So yeah, I definitely I don't know if any scary story or angry people calling me telling me Hey, what are you guys doing here? Usually they call us and say hey, you know, I saw this product was back or someone asked me about it Or hey, I'm just I had a call the other day from Atlanta big shout out a young lad there who just said hey I believe this is the future. I want to get on pop. I know no one here does it that way But I want to be an early adopter and this at least and thanks so much for calling and make a chat more Oh, that's fantastic Well, this is this is great I'm really excited about this and I know we're gonna have you on the show in the future because we're in the process of designing some Some some new homes right now where we're going to be incorporating your products into the new home construction So as those projects start to move forward, we'll definitely have to have you back on the show to discuss I'm often at the end.
I can't thank you enough for being on the show today folks Everybody I will be getting a link to to his website so you can download those details We'll have more information available for you at degree of green calm At the end thank you again for being here today And I look forward to speaking with you again absolute again. Thanks so much for having me and I'm looking forward to our next conversation So Jay, here's the thing when That's the end comes on the show next time you're gonna be joining me because I know based upon what we just heard You've got a lot of questions for them. So what I do I'm very excited about this, you know these cutting edge products with people that are really pumped up and excited about it Just gets I gets both of us excited. It's kind of this where there's a synergy happens You know they're excited about what they're doing their products look really fantastic and sound fantastic and fit a real a real niche in the market And so yeah, this is this is the stuff we kind of live for isn't it it is and you know what?
I really really appreciate about his his products and his company vision and so forth is that they understand you know And of course he even said it in the interview when he says that you know We have got to be careful about what we were doing in our industry because you know folks We only have one planet when we live on there's only one that we can take care of let's do our best And so from an energy efficiency standpoint any resources efficiency standpoint We need to do our best but they also understand the whole health component And that's why I'm not for sure that this fits right into what you and I talk about yeah You bet it does well, you know the box is always full our mailbox. I'm referring to everyone. Oh the mailbox Of course, we are appreciate all these emails you're flooding into us and we love to answer them You know every once in a while we dedicate a whole show whole show to the mailbag Let me start it off here. Anybody's I think I have a high dissertation here It looks like it could be almost considered a short novel that okay.
Let's hear it Yeah, so I'm just gonna I'm just gonna read it as it is here and we'll tackle it So hello. I'm a 40 year old woman who has struggled with chemical sensitivity for 20 years now mostly triggers migraines from smells of chemicals I ran a home and I'm trying to solve a problem in my bedroom The landlord had gross carpet that I noticed was moldy so I ripped it out since there was a nice and for vintage hardwood floor underneath This is like I'm gonna interject here. It always blows my mind down We cover up these beautiful materials with carpeting and folks if you've listened to Andy and I before you know our feelings about carpeting Exactly, so let me go on so we ripped out this gross carbon and I noticed the way we did I noticed there was mold and then the hardwood floors underneath the problem And I'm sure why he had the carpet there is that he was covering a large gap on one wall Between the floor and the wall probably four inches was the gap Where the floor meets the wall in one corner my house is real old so it shifts a lot and I have no basement I could see yellow insulation stuff in there, but didn't touch it as I wasn't sure what was best to do My mom helped me stuff a bunch of activated carbon in the gap and then we got two pieces of wood nailed them in to fill the gap But the issue is I still smell like an only assume is the insulation. It's like a gross sweet chemical smell Mmm bang donging hard to describe it, but it instantly triggers migraines and makes me nauseous Mmm, I thought we'd solve it by sealing the gap with the wood pieces But I can still smell it through the worst smell smell it through and the worst part I realized since now the gap was mostly covered by the wood, but the sickening sweet smell is still what I'm assuming is in the insulation Yeah, I realized was it was super strong when I had my nose near the electrical outlet Mmm.
I'm resigned to the fact that I may not be able to use the outlets as I don't know how was to seal off the smell Right now I've just put like five layers of activated carbon and tape it around the outlet to seal it off It looks like it looks ugly to have a taped off outlet in the bummer because I can't actually use it But if that's a price I have to pay to keep the smells away. It's worth it So Would it help? Yeah, isn't this I've told you it was a book Would it help in the tiny gaps between the floor where we pounded in the wood to cover the big gap? It was really hard to totally seal it because we can only pound the wood so far in and there They're still tiny cracks where I feel the smell is sleeping out Just wondered if you have any suggestions that I would love for the first time in years to actually be able to use my bedroom and sleep in there On a bed instead of my worn out couch Try to keep hope that there's a solution.
Thanks so much I look forward to hearing from you sincerely Carmen Well Carmen that is a great question first off. Thank you so much for being so detailed, right? I you know, I don't have any other questions for you, which is which is unique usually after a question like that I said, okay, well, what about this and that I don't understand this honestly folks. This is common to have in Older homes that used hardwood as the original flooring material back in the day When carpet first became popular people were just ecstatic to put wall-to-wall carpet in to cover up the old hardwood floors Because hardwood in a lot of instances wasn't the the masterpiece installation that we have today, correct?
And that whole could be there because of an old Radiator or you know an old piece of ductwork that no longer exists There's many reasons why these holes could could be in the you have this gap in the flooring like this and up the wall so your first thought of Filling it in is obviously the best. I think if you choose different materials to fill it with And what is obviously makes a great base and what I would call a good nail or something to then attach another material to it But you need to use something that would be considered a true vapor barrier because what I believe you're dealing with is Insulation right I agree and that the yellow material could be one of many different types of insulation first It could be old-fashioned urea from aldehyde in some fiberglass insulation It could be what's called polyurethane foam insulation It could be something as simple as you know a can of great stuff from from Lowe's or Home Depot Just that the last person sprayed in there to help try to fill that gap and found out the hard way that you probably got You know six cans worth of gap to fill and then they just covered it back up with carpet And all these materials we talk about are releasing from aldehyde well that was that when we both kind of acknowledged that sweet chemical smell Yeah, that's the that's the big warning sign. Hey from aldehyde present Well, and it makes sense that you are now sensing that exact same smell through the the outlets right right you know Chances are the the outlets covers or the electrical boxes themselves aren't gasketed. You know, they're not airtight And so actually this is what I'd recommend if you can't actually change out the electrical boxes themselves that hold the switch switches or outlets You need to either get gasketed covers for them or just simply use a toxin-free caulking material You know something like AFM's multi-purpose caulk and put that behind the the outlet cover and put the cover back on again Yep, screw it on then that gives you a seamless barrier there that seals it all up exactly now It just makes sense right that it's a it's a something having to do with from aldehyde Just based on that description of that sweet smell that's causing that type of reaction Yeah, and there's no way you can get into the wall cavity at this point in a meaningful way So the only option is to do what you're suggesting which is treat the outlets themselves treat the outlets and treat that that gap That's still there the pieces of wood that you shoved in there That's a fine idea But you also have to put a true vapor bear covering the whole thing So at this point you may even consider getting something like a denny foil product Or tape that can be applied over the wood over that gap so it's completely airtight And that should minimize or eliminate that odor from coming through there Yeah, you know unless there's any other gaps and openings that we haven't discussed That should take care of the problem Yeah, I think that's really wise advice You know folks many times in this situation is pretty clear Cup of there are instances where we're not quite sure where the pollution is coming from We've got we've got a whole bunch of suspects And so what you do there very logically is just kind of chop away at them one at a time You know select the one you think is going to be a little bit more Chop away at them one at a time, you know select the one you think is the most offensive And try to deal with that and then to step back and see if that made a difference If it did then you know you've taken care of the big one It may not solve the problem completely but at least you're you're taking it one step at a time And you're not overwhelmed.
I think this is a part of the problem especially with people with sensitivity with instrumental It's really easy to get overwhelmed and it is it is and you have to look at it as You know basically through the process of elimination right taking care of these issues now The other thing to hear Jay is that once somebody is sort of sensitized To that that chemical off-gassing It's going to be a little more difficult to get rid of it completely because now where you didn't smell it before didn't sense it before Because you got a big rush of it into the air even if you got rid of that big area of it you may still sense it So you're gonna have to use You know the power of your nose and your best judgment to try to figure out how to sleuth out where else it could be coming from I and my clients don't always like to hear this from me But I tell them you know if you're off balance right now if your sensitivities are on a red alert Then the wisest thing you can do is to try to get yourself back into balance before you try to do some analysis Because like you said and you're not gonna be really ready to be on that level of perception We're gonna be able to solve all the problems They don't like to hear that because well how long what how long is that gonna take? I mean I gotta stay away out of my house for like a week two weeks three weeks until I feel better well Yeah, I mean yeah, you do why well one you want to feel better than get the heck out of there right to you Can't go back and know anything unless you feel better so you know They're always a little frightened, but well I'll go back. I'll feel good then I'll get sick again So it's just it's really hard folks I mean and I've dealt with this for 25 years now and it's in our hearts go out to everyone but Sometimes you just have to have to kind of you know pull up your bootstraps and just kind of go for it I just want to bring that up because I know it's difficult when we talk about you know having us all these kind of tricky problems There's a whole bunch of boogie men in the woodwork, you know where are they who is it how we get rid of them? So well, you know, it's it brings to mind a discussion I had today with the new clients and It's when you're dealing with the chemical sensitivity You're so used to everything you come in contact with causing a reaction everything Just depressing your immune system more and more and more and it's just so hard to take So I understand the level of skepticism that comes from folks who have had to who've been suffering with this for years or decades Well the skepticism is at home too, right?
I mean they're feeling very challenged and their mates at home whoever they may be maybe highly skeptical Right, so you've got that skepticism too. So it's this a rocky road It is hey, you know what else one other thing I want to say here Just popped in my mind based upon this conversation not as this question of the conversation with the client earlier today Question came up like how do I test if I'm if I'm sensitive to a product or not? We're gonna have Somebody on the show coming up soon that we're gonna talk about this because everybody tests will test differently But what it comes down to is if you are dealing with a physician that you are comfortable with you need to actually establish a set of protocols With your physician, how do I test to make sure that products are going to be safe or going to react? You know whether you're doing a muscle test whether you're doing some other type of test that is giving you some indication that There is a sensitivity to it obviously, you know that the frat testing we do with a you know mold testing that's available prism tests that are out there These are all important.
You're gathering your facts. You're putting together your you know your your decision-making process of how you move forward But you really need to work with a physician or an alternative health care physician who can help you determine if you are having a physical reaction Yeah, you know, I know you're talking about for interview talking about our wonderful friend Dr. Lisa Naj Yes, of course we need to have her back exactly and just wealth of knowledge I'm thinking myself if I asked her this question she would give us 25 minutes of an answer Beautiful and would be like, you know, on baited breath with all yeah exactly so I got one for you. Okay, Rochelle Birmingham Emailed us right after the last one of last podcasts where we talked about the carpet care system And she said I'm asking a question specifically specifically for the podcast We were building a new home and cannot afford wool carpet We currently have no sensitivities in her family But we're just trying to be proactive right now if we put conventional carpet in just the bedrooms and use the AFM carpet clean system Is there a conventional carpet that's a little safer to use and responds best to the AFM system?
Thanks in advance. I've never Been brand-centric about responding to this I understand I've only kind of in a way couch the answer by saying we developed that product for Synthetic carpet, right which is kind of a broad way of describing carpet But that's generally how I've explained it What would you add to that and if you were trying to give them a more focused answer on exactly the kind of carpet sure so The you know first off this is a very very common Common question that I think people would love to ask they just sometimes they don't know how to put into words and Rochelle puts it into Words perfectly here's a thing wool carpet is generally gonna be more expensive than synthetic carpet now It lasts eight to ten times longer, but that upfront cost is prohibitive for most people that's what their problem is exactly And here's the other thing too folks not everybody can tolerate natural wool carpet wool carpet contains Lanolin Lanolin is an oil skin oil from from the sheep and Lanolin Can be problematic for people of sensitivity. So there are many reasons why some people will just say no to wool carpet So I too like to stay away from recommending a brand here because I'm a big believer that there is no such thing as a healthy Synthetic carpet right what I will say is I always look for nylon nylon as a as the synthetic fiber I believe nylon Either whether it's you know virgin nylon or it's what they call nylon six six which is a recycled material and recyclable Nylon itself for as a synthetic plastic is a fairly clean plastic So the biggest problem we'll have to deal with is the backing that holds that fiber and that's where the carpet cleaning and Ceiling system will really come into play right right folks That information is on our website AFM safe coat calm under the carpet cleaning section of our website So the details are there you can check that out and and if you have questions further You can always you know shoot us an email and we'll be glad to do a follow up on that So I think just to answer questions succinctly is look for an island carpet And then if you may find one that might be fine. You never know sometimes it's fine.
Sometimes you don't have an issue I like the proactivity of their decision making. I think that's really wise I worry I would say if you make a decision on the carpet you get it into your home and you're having a problem Then you can look to us for maybe a solution to help control the emissions There you go, and that's quite honestly This is a very common way of doing things if you if you don't remove the source actual source of gluten You seal it up, but I would also add that when it comes to carpeting It's one of those materials in the building and remodeling industry where you really do get what you pay for The the higher the price generally speaking the better the quality And so if you're going to install carpeting you want to do it once and you're going to go through the process of the ceiling of that carpet And that's a very labor-intensive process. I don't want to sugarcoat that right it is There's a lot of work involved in doing that three-step system So you purchase the best quality synthetic you can find because you want it to last the longest so you don't have to do this again Correct, so I have one let's let's round it up with this one. It's a little shorter than when I introduced All right, this is from a actually from down under it's from Australia In Australia, it's really a lot of listeners down on it.
We do we do and she's asking I am looking for a non-toxic sealer for a concrete shower floor Hmm. I need something that will happen obviously need something that will handle pooling water. Okay. What can you recommend?
Well, this is a it should be fairly simple to recommend something here, but this is one of the situations where I would need to know a little bit more Yeah, generally if it's a concrete floor that Has either a waterproof Membrane underneath it We're not dealing with any moisture vapor issues like I had a pressure coming up from underneath, right? I'd probably recommend something like well, it's a couple of products. It depends on what the finishes it's trying to achieve I like the penetrating water stop. I like the water shield.
I think those two products are probably your best bet Penetrating water stop by AFM will not leave a any surface coating whatsoever The water shield leaves a little bit of a surface coating, but it actually gives you more resistance to things like skin oils and so far Right, right. So I would say those are the two that I would recommend. I'd probably get a sample of agency which one reacts the best for you Yeah, I'm kind of leaning towards our penetrating water stop. Okay.
Just because I've seen it. I've seen it under a pool of water Okay, it's quite amazing I mean you've got a pool of water where the surrounding dry the wet part of the concrete is very dark in color But wherever the penetrating water stop has been applied the concrete there looks like it's dry Oh, it can be under three three inches of water and it looks like it's dry. Excellent. So there you go And I like that too because you know it doesn't leave any surface coating and all that could get slippery and wet It's invisible.
You don't know it's fantastic. So there you go. Penetrating water stop. Well, I think that pretty much puts a period to our day Day doesn't it it does and so we started off with a fantastic discussion with Etienne and Jay for sure next time I get a chance to speak with him.
You'll be joining us so we can pepper him with questions Alright folks and once again, thank you so much for joining us in non toxic environments. Jay and I we look forward to this day Every single week. It's really a thrill for us to be here with you and to answer your questions and to be that that You know as folks have told me that that beacon of hope that they can actually live in a healthy home Well, I think it was as your sounding word to exactly exactly. Alright, Andy I'm really we really appreciate if you go to degree of green calm and sign up for our newsletter And as the summer months go away and we get into fall and winter that newsletter will be ramping up even more and we'll be sending out more information also go to iTunes and make sure to give us a rating and review that'll help others find the show and Finally make sure to keep on sending those questions in and maybe we'll feature you on one of the upcoming episodes of non toxic environments Be well everybody.
We'll talk to you next week. Thank you so much. Take care. Bye.
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