Content With A Conscience

Welcome to Produced by in this episode, Social Impact Producers, Alana Mayo, Bonnie Abouza, Michael B. Jordan, Scott Z. Burns, and Shavani Rawat discuss the content they are making and how it is impacting society today. This panel produced by PBLA Conference was recorded in front of a live audience in 2019.

Please enjoy the observations of the voices making a difference across the globe, moderated by Kia Kiso. The panelists and I are thrilled to be here with you this morning at the Produced by Conference, and congratulations to all of you for scoring a seat. This was the first panel to sell out, so to speak, to fill up, and the waiting list is pretty much as big as the people in this room. So congrats to you.

We have a little less than 60 minutes for our discussion, and then we'll open up for a short 15-minute Q&A afterwards, so keep track of your questions. So I assume I know why you're here. I guess it's because you care about making a difference with your projects. Maybe you're interested in aligning your values with the work that you do.

We all know that entertainment has an impact. It might even be small and minor, it might be an audience member's heart beating during a thriller, or them having tears of joy during a comedy, or it can have a larger impact. Social impact entertainment is defined as entertainment that inspires social change, and that's the definition that we're kind of going on under today. On this very lot, Hollywood mogul Jack Warner famously rejected a script by saying, if you want to send a message, send a telegram.

But really since the dawn of our artistic medium, filmmakers have been doing movies with messages, and it seems that audiences appetite for content with conscience is even growing more. And I would even say that the popularity of this panel is some anecdotal data for how popular this is right now, or at least this theory. And we can think about just within the last year titles that have spoken louder than others. They maybe had a little extra element on top of their entertainment value.

Black Panther, Black Klansman, Roma, Vice, Green Book, The Upside, Bohemian Rhapsody, Won't You Be My Neighbor, RBG, What Men Want, If Beel Street Could Talk, Pose, Big Little Lies, Queer Eye, Speechless, and I bet you can think of even more. So we're here today to delve deeper into how this is done. Preaching is not the right way, right? We know this, and especially with narrative format.

And audiences do not want to feel like they're eating spinach when they're watching your content, right? So, and it often takes a little bit more consciousness and intention to make sure that your impact is actually the one that you intended. I know of a story of a filmmaker, I won't name names, who made a blockbuster that they thought was an anti-war movie, and they had painted their protagonists in such a heroic light that armed forces enrollment actually increased. That was the opposite intention.

So, Bravo to you for being here today to find out more, especially if you want to inspire conversations, or you actually want to change public policy. Our panelists have varied experiences and thoughts on this topic, and I'm so delighted to share them with you. So, I'll do quick introductions. Hopefully you guys did your homework last night and read all the bios and death.

Next to me I have Bonnie Abouns of the Bonnie Group, I'll just say Bonnie Group. And she's an impact producer, and she's worked on many, many projects, more recently Roma, which addresses domestic workers' rights. And one of my favorites is this don't make an impact 13 years later at Blood Diamond, and that's about fair trade and work crimes. Next to her is Scott Zee Burns, and he's a producer, writer and director.

He's known for the informant, contagion, and inconvenient truth, which is a Stanley Kramer Award winner. And he has the report coming out in the fall, which addresses the CIA's torture program and another great project, the laundromat about the leak of the panel of papers. So, welcome, Scott. Next we have Michael B.

Jordan. You guys know him, he's a wonderful actor, really, you know, set the stage it seems in Fruitvale Station, which also is a Stanley Kramer Award winner. And he's also a producer, and I received some last-minute edits from Alana, so I just want to make sure I get those in there. So he's a producer, and he created Outlier Society Productions three years ago, and the company award won a PGA Award for Fahrenheit 451, so congrats on that.

And next to him is Alana Mayo, and she is a former Paramount exec that worked on the likes of a Quiet Place and the Big Short, and she's now Outlier Society's Head of Production and Development. They're in post on Just Mercy, which addresses legal justice, which addresses legal justice, and other projects. You can mention those as we go along. And then we have Shavani Rolot, who is the CEO and founder of Shavans Pictures, which produced, Papped and Fantastic, about living off the grid, and Trombo about Freedom of Speech, and she has an upcoming feature, Brian Banks, coming out this August 9th, I believe, which addresses wrongful convictions.

So let's welcome them. So first off, I'd like to start off with a show of hands from the audience. Of the titles I've mentioned so far, any of the titles at all, who of you have been impacted either they brought a new awareness to you, or you had a conversation that was sort of unexpected, or they actually called you to action? See, this is impact, this is impact right here.

And I've told Bonnie, but I'll share it with you, it's because of blood diamond I requested from my boyfriend now, husband, that he give me a white Sapphire wedding set instead of blood diamond. So thanks, honey. I know you're in the audience somewhere. So free diamond.

Conflict free. So I've talked briefly about social impact entertainment and that definition. That's the term that the PGA Task Force uses as well. I'm curious, and this is one of the only times we'll probably go down the line.

I'm curious to know from each of our panelists, what is your term or definition of the impact-focused work you do? Thank you. The PGA for inviting me here. Let me just start by saying, I agree with the definition that you already told us.

And I've been in the space of impact entertainment actually since 2000. I've been a human rights activist for 40 years. And I credit a lot of films that were able to educate me about global issues that dealt with human rights. And so I understood the value very early on of movie documentaries, media that is entertaining first, but gets across that social justice message, whether it's Trojan Horseing the Message, or the whole film is about a particular issue.

And so when you think of Battle of Algiers, you think of Z missing, Killing Fields, all of those movies are iconic films. And they really help educate people. And so when I was at Amnesty International in 2000, and I started the Artistramistic Program, one of my missions was how now could I work with the entertainment community, specifically on documentaries and films, to make an impact. We didn't have the term social impact back then.

We didn't have the term social action. They were called human rights films. And I worked very closely with the studios. And we understood that we had to lead with traditional marketing.

But we also had the ability then, through Amnesty's millions of members and our partner organizations, to really get the word out using the power of this film for advocacy and action. And I know that we'll get into blood diamond, but that is a campaign that has such long legs. And everywhere I go, and every panel I speak, people always tell me what you can say, just what you said. And interestingly, I was on an IRS audit on Wednesday.

And yeah, my first one that was traumatizing. But the IRS agent was asking me about the receipts. And he said, so what is it you do? And I saw him social impact producer.

He said, what is that? And so I told him. And he said, what movies have you worked on? And so I said, I told her, Wanda, Black Diamond, Constant Gardner, I named him off.

He goes, Black Diamond. Oh my god. That's one of my favorite movies. I had no idea that there was such a thing as conflict diamond.

He literally stopped the audit, Googled, wanting to understand why it wasn't nominated for Best Picture of the Five Other Academy Awards. And then we spent about 15 minutes talking about it. He said, that campaign, and I remember there was this downloadable guy. I said, yeah, I was an amateur.

And I said, you ran that campaign. And he said he bought his wife's ring and made sure they was conflict free. And he asked for the certification on it. This guy is in his mid-30s.

I'm 55. That campaign was in 2006. And he still remembered it. It didn't help me in reducing what I had to pay the IRS.

That's kind of hoping for a little bit of love there. But anyway, so this to me is what's so important. And I'm a real crusader. And I wholeheartedly believe in the label social impact entertainment.

I know we're going to get into the pros and cons of that. But I've just been involved with too many campaigns where the films are great. And we have been able to capitalize those films to really move the needle on issues and mobilize people to take action. So I'm proud to be in this space.

And this is a fantastic report. And I congratulate the skull center on it because it really is a landmark report just showing the impact that we do have. That's wonderful. Thank you, Scott.

I think I may come at this a little differently. Because I tend to write and direct. So when I fell in love with movies, when I was a little kid, interestingly, I just saw Michael Douglas before this. And Michael should really be sitting up here with us because Michael produced one floor over the Cuckoo's Nest and China Syndrome, which before we knew the words social impact entertainment.

Or movies that had a huge effect on me. And so I guess I should give up my seat to somebody else. But I tend to start with trying to find a story that is compelling to me. And I hope that it will be compelling to the audience.

And that's pretty much it. And when I was a kid, those were things like one floor of the Cuckoo's Nest or all the president's man. So to me, I guess I just try and remember to take me with me to work in the morning. I like that one.

I guess I have a similar approach for me, starting in front of the camera from an actor's perspective. It's all about the heart and feelings. And wanting to create bodies of work and tell stories that make people go home and think to provoke thought that way is heavily on their heart. Constantly trying to hold the mirror up to the audience and not have them go home and reflect, which would in hopes of them to feel motivated to go out and do something different, to change the way they think, to go make it impact, to go demand answers of the things that they see is wrong or broken within the system.

So that was always our approach to making films of social impact entertainment. Yeah, just looking through this briefly with all the data and all the statistics and stuff like that. It's interesting because I never really took the numbers approach. It's always been a feeling, human connection approach to the work that I wanted to create and the stories that we wanted to tell.

So that was always kind of my definition of a social impact. Thanks, Mike. Alana? I just agree with all of that.

And I would just add, I think, one thing that we really understand is the privilege of being able to project images out into the world and stories into the world. And I think what everyone up here is saying, and I imagine people say, Tishamani, is that we can recall the impact of certain films and images on our life. And so I think that's something that we're just consciously aware of is the responsibility that comes with what story you're projecting, what images you're projecting, or frankly what you're not projecting. I think for us, there's a sense of personal responsibility to represent and reflect our experience, particularly because that's not something that you consistently have seen as much as in film and television.

So I think it's a very, it also comes from a very organic and personal place. But we try to be mindful once we find the story that inspires us of how that can impact the people that are going to see it. And obviously, we would love for that to be a positive, additive thing to the cultural conversation. Well, I agree with all of you.

But I think it's also about, as producers, we read so many scripts every day. And what touches your heart? For me, it's the honest stories out there. I remember seeing the 60-minute piece on Brian Banks.

And I was like, why isn't anyone working on this film? And we had a 60-minute piece on him, and we did the whole movie. It took us time. But I think it's what type of stories speak to you.

And you have to be honest with yourself when you're dealing with stories like that. And I think it's about honest compelling stories. And there are a lot of them there. But what truly speaks to you?

My next question is, I'd love to start off with Alana and Mike, is creating social impact entertainment projects for however you describe it? Is it a conscious decision for you and your production company? Yes and no. I think it's a natural thing for me to do.

It's before the word inclusion became a thing, or diversity became a thing. It was just me when to make films that I saw a little bit more of myself on the screen. I didn't really have a chance to see growing up that often. So I think now that I'm in a position to tell stories and kind of control the projects that I'm making, I'm conscious to tell stories in that way, but also not trying too hard to hit everything on the head.

It's like I want stories to just be, I want to create work that's not a place where it's not just a black film, a black movie that's being labeled as that. It's just high caliber work that is told from a perspective that people don't often see. So yeah, it's a conscious decision, but at the same time, it sounds something naturally that I think we would have done. Yeah, I mean, the only thing I'd say that is one of the things that I've always, to talk about you like you're not here, that I've always been inspired about Michael's career in the choices that he's made as an actor, is that whether something was overtly tackling, you know, something that would be labeled under social impact, like fruit vial station, or something like Creed that seems like it's more entertainment forward.

There was always some sort of message that he was accepting the audience with, and I think that we take the same approach to the producing work is we struggle with a like happy mindless entertainment that doesn't feel like it has some sort of substance to it. And sometimes we, you know, sometimes with a movie like Just Mercy, you just wanna hit an issue that I think for both of us we will continue to make content about until we feel like we start to see the impact and the change in the real world. And other things, you know, we're, you know, we're developing a Tom Clancy movie, but we can start to talk about what it means for Michael to play that character and the backstory of his character and what his experience would be as a special forces operator in war. You can't help but find some sort of meaning beneath that that comes out in the work.

And usually, you know, I think, I'd like to think that usually has a potential to impact audiences and more profoundly than just entertainment. And I wanna do, actually look at your slate and you're kind of like, oh, we wanna do half and half. I know that you wanna really focus on sort of maybe a typical traditional commercial. That's important.

Yeah, well, one of the things ever since like Fruble Station seems like every historical black figure has come across my desk. They play star, produce every project, you know, as much as I would love to play all of them. I can or produce those products. So we try to find the balance and, you know, try to balance out as much as you can to run a company where it's not, it's entire identity at the same time.

It is an important, you know, silo lane and something that we really care about. So we just wanna find that balance. Perfect, awesome. Shavani, can you talk a little bit about is finding projects that have impact, is that a conscious decision for you and your company?

Is it a mandate? Is it just more of a feeling? I think it's just, like I said, being honest with yourself and take trouble, for example, then we was about freedom of speech, you know, Captain Fantastic, living off the grid. My first one, Danny Collins, was about a father in Sun Connecting.

So I think somewhere it spoke to the audience, but, you know, as producers, of course, when you're looking at your films or reading scripts, you automatically think of like, will this person or this actor get nominated? You kind of like start playing that ball game in your mind. But I think for me, it's about any project I do about whatever the topic is, I should be proud of it 20 years down the line. That's the ball game, I give myself.

I'm like, listen, if I'm watching one of my films 20 years later, I should be proud of it. Not like, oh my God, why did I make that film? I should be really proud of it and say like, okay, I'm glad I did that. And like, for, I'll give the example of Ryan Banks, you know, this was a film we all believed in.

We made it, but when we were going through the distributors process, it was not easy. And we had a lot of people come back to us like, oh, it's a good film, but we don't see it fitting in our, you know, in our slate, or we don't see it working for the audience. My approach was a bit different. So you know what, I've really given a lot to this film.

And if nobody's interested, I'll distribute it myself. And I went ahead and did that. And I'm glad it'll be out on August 9th. And it's a really special film.

But, you know, it's just again what speaks to me. And at the same time, I think it just so happens that the projects I like, they kind of tend to have this sort of a message, which I'm glad. But also like somewhere consciously, I should be, it should speak to me. I don't want to make of them just to kind of please the audience, the project will speak to me.

And if it does to me in the audience, I think that that's the women case. Yeah. Thank you. Scott, I, you talked about story first, right?

Story is most important. Could you talk to us a little bit more about contagion, or one of your projects? Yeah, I mean, now is an opportunity to defend Warner Brothers as long as we're here. You know, the idea for that movie came to me in a conversation I had with my father, Steven Cerberg, and I were finishing the informant.

And he said, what do you want to write next? And I said I would like to write sort of a pandemic movie that sort of gets into like worldwide global health issues and vaccines. But I want it to be sort of look like a thriller. I'm going to steal Trojan Horse thing because it's a term that I feel like I use way too often.

But Steven and I wanted to make kind of a disaster movie, where we were going to be willing to kill Gwyneth Paltrow in the last five minutes. I just ruined the movie. And so, again, we started more with the story. And we had the immense good fortune that Alan Horne, who was running Warner Brothers at the time, Alan's wife, Cindy, was very involved with issues surrounding pandemic illness and vaccines in the state of California.

And so suddenly, the movie became something larger to a lot of stakeholders in the public health circle. But for us, when we were making the movie, I wasn't really thinking about the measles. I was thinking about the audience and trying to make what I thought would be a suspenseful cool ride. Because I don't think anybody sits there going, oh, it's OK that the camera work was shitty or that actor was disingenuous or the dialogue was on the nose if it's got some sort of social relevance.

I think our obligation is to make sure that these movies don't look like spinach. And is there a concern when you show up and you say, I have a socially responsible film that somehow will show people how much money. I would never say that. No, I don't come back.

I mean, you wouldn't say that. No, again, I'm not trying to avoid answering that. I really would just walk in and say, so this is the story. And I think it's really interesting.

And obviously, we live in a time where people have become very tribal. And so you do sometimes have to take into account how do we navigate an audience that is very bifurcated. And so when you get into those issues, if you think you're going to be telling a story that may be polarizing, you have to go, OK, so we need to probably make this for less money than we might make. And that would be not just means being responsible for a business, definitely.

Super important. I'd love to ask, Shavani, do you have examples, and I'll extend the question to the other panelists. Shavani, do you have examples of impact stemming from any of your projects that you can share with us? Brian Banks, it's a true story about this high school footballer who was falsely accused of a crime he didn't commit.

And how Ryan fought the system. And it's the stories about just how messed up our system, our justice system is. And Ryan was, for 10 years, it's because of lack of evidence, he was just prison. And the 10 years of his life was just basically, he debt to him, and how he fought the system.

And with the help of the support of California Innocence Project came out of the hole. And today, he's successful. He gives motivational talks and just living his life. But it's just like, whenever we swing the movie at any other festival, it's interesting how we, after the Q&A, we have a long line of people just waiting in line.

And at the elephant festival, we have this. I remember seeing this young girl. She must have been 17 years old, just crying. And I went up to her, I said, we are your right.

And she's like, my uncle and my brother are in the prison for something they didn't commit. And she's like, this is their story. This is a story that speaks to me. And she was just falling.

And then we always have people who, they have someone they know who's gone through the same situation. So that's one of the films that I really back. And I feel it's true to my heart, so I've supported you. And it hasn't even been released yet.

And did you mention the California Innocence Project? Yes. Justin Brooks was, he mentored Ryan throughout the process. And it's funny, because that was the film that this studio said no to.

And we won the audience film award at the elephant festival. And we won the best screenplay award at the Humanities Awards. And I think the film's releasing all this night. I love the love we've been getting for the film.

And I think at the end of the film has been very supportive to us. And at their draft, they released the trailer. And we got so many cues. Like, why haven't you released the film there?

So I think it's going to be a great film once it's released. Thank you. Scott, obviously, The Incommunient Truth has had a huge impact. And your relationship with the call to action and stuff on that.

I'd love for you to share a little bit of your comfort with that and talk with us about something impact. Sure. Yeah. I mean, an inconvenient truth.

Again, when we started that movie, and this was sort of an interesting thing, was Lauren Spender and Lori David and I had gone to see Al Gore speak. And Davis, Wiggenheim then came with us to approach Al. And we were like, the slideshow isn't going to make an awesome movie. So Davis and I went and watched Scorsese's movie, The Last Waltz.

And we talked about how Scorsese had divided up a concert with these little stories about the band. And that maybe if we did that and divided up the slideshow with these interesting little stories in Al Gore. So that was really the idea that Davis and I put forward for the movie. When we finished the movie, a lot of people were, I think, overwhelmed by the message of climate change.

And the movie was a participant, and I've made five movies, I think, with participants. They said, well, can you do something positive at the end? I was like, and Davis, and I agree with Davis. And so I'm going to go back under my director hat for a minute.

Because Davis was like, no, that's not my job. My job was to tell a story about Al Gore and his slideshow, not to be responsible for who might catch feelings from watching it. And so I ended up with Davis's permission and being in charge of putting the social impact thing at the end of the movie, where it was a list of things that you could do so that you didn't sit there crying at the end of the movie and feel like running for the pint of chocolate ice cream. Yeah, and I have real mixed emotions about having done that.

Because I think I don't know that that's your responsibility as a filmmaker. I think the audience can certainly go out in the world. And where I do think social impact stuff and what Bonnie's doing is important is making sure that in the marketing of the movie, the audience has a place to go, that you take that energy and you can point them towards an amnesty towards an NAACP, towards whoever that so that they can take their excitement and go somewhere. And that was really what I was hoping for from that movie.

And obviously it worked, and climate change is solved. So great. I love that guy. Just piggybacking up what you're saying.

It's true. Sometimes you watch films and television shows. And sometimes they're so honest and true and horrifying and depressing and hurtful that as an audience member, you're watching and you're frustrated. When it's over, you're just destroyed and you're angry.

You have nowhere to go with this emotion. But to have steps or actionable things that an audience member can go release that type of energy or those feelings and emotions out into the world, they can make a change. They can make a difference. I can take this energy and actually go do something.

That's extremely important in the marketing of films nowadays. So that's something that we've been consciously thinking about, especially with the Just Mercy season. Seeing the impact that when they see us every day in a project over at Netflix, how watching the story of those young boys, you're so, I mean, I had to turn it off a couple of times because it was so uneraging. But when you get done, it's like, all right, now, what?

I want to go do something. But what can I do that's productive? Yeah, I got it. Let me add.

I mean, I agree with you both. I'm never saying have social impact lead in any other marketing. It's complimentary. It's meant to be complimentary.

It's meant to offer more so that when people are moved by a film that is good and it has to be entertaining. Because there's no how successful impact campaign you have if people don't like the film. The film of the documentary. So first and foremost, it has to be entertainment.

It has to touch people. When it does, impact producers like myself come in and say, OK, now we're going to work with the marketing publicity team in the film. OK, because people do want to take action when they're inspired by something. And that's what we offer.

Well, this film maker is a desk, an artistry, to drum up that emotion. You could easily watch something about climate change or racial issues or the justice system and not be moved at all. We are building up some sort of interest or emotions, so it's good to direct it if that's ever choosing. Does anybody else have anything to add?

Bonnie, you might have some other examples of impact that you can share with us. I think it's important to talk about metrics and both the short and the long-term impact. So Hotel Rwanda, MGM UA Film, and it came out. This is a genocide movie that came out of Christmas.

I mean, so MGM UA came to us at Amazon University in Nashville and they said, look, we've got this movie. We're going to market it as this father, trying to save his family, trying to save his workers at the hotel. But we really need amnesty. I mean, you're talking December 22.

And the Rwanda genocide is on the big screen. So eight months prior, we started working with MGM UA. To their credit, they said, create the curriculum. We'll create specific materials for you.

Amnesty at that point had four million members. And so we knew how to get to our formerly members at Fort Facebook, before Twitter, before Instagram. We knew how to get to them through mailings and through emails and through our website. So we said, OK, we're going to work closely with you.

We will bring in the built-in audience for this movie. Because if we knew, we could bring them in the first two weekends or critical for any film. And we knew if we could hold a box office, that it would go into the new year. And that's exactly what we did.

We worked very closely with Don Cheadle, who shot PSAs. We worked very closely with Terry George, who actually had been an amnesty prisoner of conscience in Northern Ireland. And together, we came up with this campaign on how we're going to educate high school students, how we're going to get to college students at Amnesty had groups all over the world that were high school and college students. We had human rights activists or crusaders.

We lived for genocide movies. I had to say that we lived for these kinds of movies. Because then we were able to use them and say, look, this is why you have to support our work. And so what happened is had very good opening held the second week, then went into the new year and got all kinds of Oscar nominations.

And we continued that whole campaign. We tied the work on the Rwandan genocide to what was then the beginning of the genocide in Darfur. And so we mobilized people. We took the film to DC.

We took the film to the UN. We took it to all of these different think tanks and foundations that we want to work with you. And because of that, we had mass mobilization. Nobody knew where Darfur was.

Nobody knew that. There were refugees going into chat. And because of that movie, we were able to mobilize in our end and effect change and try and help the people of Darfur. Back then, when DVDs were big, Don Cheadle, we put his PSA.

Well, the MGM put his PSA at the end of the DVD. And they created an insert envelope, which was a donation, which was back then, put a stamp and mail it in. It wasn't online. And we had over $100,000 donated through the DVD sale, specifically for work on Darfur.

And as a thank you from MGM, UA, because it was a successful film, a successful campaign, they then made a donation and it was $150,000 to help us with their work on Darfur. And as far as blood diamond, I credit Warner Brothers, because they knew in Ed Zwick, and it was a brilliant script by Marshall Herskovitz and Ed Zwick did a great job with it, to their credit, they brought in Amnesty and Global Witness at the beginning. Global Witness worked during the script stage, during the development stage on this, and Amnesty came in. We had the sheer numbers of people that we knew if we had to take on to beers, we had to take on the World Diamond Council.

They're those crazy Amnesty members that are going to show up at these jewelry stores and not leave. With that, there was World Diamond Council sent a letter to Ed and to Warner Brothers. They hadn't seen the film. It was the directors kind of the movie.

Nobody had seen it. And they were talking about, well, look how good we are and all this stuff that we've done and conflict diamonds. We had Amnesty took up that gauntlet and said, OK, we're going to challenge you on this. And that campaign became a very successful campaign.

What we did is we launched, again, it was released during Christmas, a movie about the war in Sierra Leone. And it was Amnesty members that drove to the theater and were very closely with the marketing team, and they were terrific on it. And we launched a Valentine's Day campaign. And the movie had been nominated for Oscars.

So we mobilized around the world. And we said, take this downloadable buyer's guide that we created, wear your blood diamond bracelet, go to these jewelry stores, and just say, we want to see the certification that your diamonds are conflict free. And it was such a massive response that we would see jewelry stores in malls, signs that went up saying, our diamonds are conflict free. That is a result of the campaign.

And your husband, thank you again. There are people everywhere that now are saying, and that term, then blood diamond, became part of the populist vernacular because of that campaign. So now you have blood gold, blood chocolate, blood minerals, all because of that campaign. And we showed up at the theaters.

And I didn't know this until a couple of years ago that blood diamond is taught at universities, in film schools, human rights programs. They have an African studies programs. And I didn't know this until an intern said, I'm from Wisconsin. I learned about your campaign in my three textbooks.

And I said, what three textbooks? And then he told me, I had no idea that blood diamond is actually taught. That's impact. That is impact.

And you were saying it's in film courses, marketing courses, and human rights courses. Yeah, it's in African studies courses. Yeah. And also, talk to us just ever so briefly about the impact that Roma and period and of sentence have created.

Oh, before I go to that, there's just something again, kind of like on the IRS side. Because it's on your mind. Because I'm on a campaign that launched the fall called River of Builders is about conflict gold in the Peruvian Amazon. And I was brought on by this film maker who said I want the same campaign as blood diamonds.

So she's had no these calls with jewelers. Now they don't know I ran the blood diamond campaign. They just said this is Bonnie. She's running the campaign.

And on all these calls, I've been on seven or eight of these calls with these jewelers. They're saying we don't want to repeat a blood diamond. We don't want the fiasco that was blood diamond. And then I reveal why I'm the fiasco that was behind.

So anyway, I had to add that one in. So Roma, participant media has a fantastic impact campaign on Rome. And I was brought on board as a consultant by Netflix to take the film to influencers. And so with Roma, what I did, and the fact that from this film, it's not obvious that there would be a campaign around domestic workers' rights.

And that is the genius of participant. And they've had a real impact on that with Senator Kamala Harris advocating for a domestic group of Bill of Rights, the Mexican Supreme Court, and the Mexican government has just passed legislation for protection of domestic workers' rights. But what I did is I took the film to the UN. And I took it specifically the International Labor Organization, which is the oldest agency of the United Nations and is the age that focuses on all labor issues.

They screened the film. They brought Yalitzaparisiou, who is the Oscar nominated lead in the film Brilliant, to speak on your national women's day about the rights of domestic workers. And now the ILO is using that film and the campaign to push protocol 189 globally to get countries to sign on to protect the rights of domestic workers everywhere. So I brought the film to the UN specifically for that.

And countries are now signing on to the protocol, thanks to large part, the Roma campaign. And so I credit participant on that. And the fact that this protocol, which, you know, outside of the UN, people really don't know about, the fact that now they have this asset, this film. And Yalitzap to speak to this is going to help to make domestic workers globally.

I love that. Alana and Mike, is social impact entertainment or impact-focused projects? Are they good business? Well, I think we have to say yes.

It's a huge part of our slate. So we like to think so. I think Scott made a point that wasn't lost on me. Again, we're all saying that we tell stories based off of our own passions and our own interests and our own desire to impact the world.

But we also are cognizant of the fact that we are in a commercial business. And we have a responsibility, if we want to continue to make films of any type, we have a responsibility to do that in a way that hopefully makes money for the people that are financing it. So for us, it's just the right equation of the story that you're telling in the audience that you expect that you can reach with that, making it in a responsible way. And I think what's great is because these stories come with so much heart and passion and personal interest.

You know, in my experience, they end up being some of the best things that we produce. You know, because you can really answer the question of, like, why are we telling this story? Why is this important? And so in my experience, the movies that perform the best and tell them shows that perform the best record with people on an emotional level.

And I think this type of content has the ability to do that in some ways more effectively than other things that we think are just pure entertainment. I think Black Panther is a great example of that. That movie wasn't just about the plot. It was about people getting to come to the movie theater and see themselves reflected and come to the movie theater address as the characters.

And so for us, we think it's great business, but also a business that has to be approached responsibly and with a mind towards wanting to ultimately still make things that are profitable. Right, of course. And do you use data when you have a, like, without remorse or some of your projects? Do you also look at the data as well to figure out, like, who is the audience?

Will they respond to it? What is the message that they're maybe willing to receive? I don't think we have that kind of algorithmic approach, but we're people that have been between the two of us working in this industry for a very long time. And so we don't just, in general, in our process by for Kate making socially conscious films versus making entertainment films.

As you all know, making all movies is very difficult. And so we approach them the same way with just, how can we get this done? This is something that we're burning to do and burning the tell and the same process that you would go through on any movie, a finance or a finance distributor, getting the budget to the right place, finding the best package around that to set it up for success. It's not different in these films than it is in something that may seem more obviously commercial.

Now when we get to the trailer, what trailer could that we actually cut? They didn't go to the numbers. That's not the sort of studio we get on board with that part. We rarely build the numbers as much.

Can I add something upon the documentary side? I was at participant media and I was on the team that ran the Food In Campaign. And Food In That You Think was 2009, I think it was 2009. I think it was 2009.

It was one of the highest grossing docs that year was nominated for an Oscar. One of the reasons that it was one of the highest grossing docs that year is because we had 20 NGOs that were animal rights NGOs, that were healthy food, that were people that were against GMOs and against Monsanto, people that were talking about healthy food for children. We had 20 NGOs that we mobilized. And we said, OK, we're going to have these specific issues with these NGOs.

Non-governmental organizations. Oh, there you go. Non-governmental organizations. And we had them aligned.

And we said, OK, this document addresses myriad issues that all of you are passionate about. We need you to go to your members and tell them to go. That first weekend, that second weekend. And then there was the long leg and still there's impact from the Food In Campaign.

One of those is the menu labeling. So when you go to McDonald's and when you go to the US, this shake is 6,000 calories, that is a result of the Food In Campaign. And the NGOs that were working on that, right? The whole GMO movement was strengthened by that film.

So these NGOs are really important, again, on the impact side to mobilize people to go to the theater. And it was one of the highest present across Dover. People who worked working with NGOs had heard about it, went to see it. It was Magnolia.

And they had a great marketing campaign around it. But that is one where the NGOs were critically important. It's a success at film. Scott, our impact-focused projects, good business.

I think you have the report of Informant. Are they good business? I'm looking forward to the report, by the way. Yes, I'm sorry.

They certainly can be. And again, I have obviously discomfort around this whole social impact sort of terminology. Because I remember I used to play in a really bad band. And I saw one of my heroes, a guy named Steve Earl, who was a singer-songwriter, being interviewed once, and they asked him if he was a country singer, a rock and roll singer.

And he said, there's two kinds of good music and bad music. I try really hard to play the first kind. And so I think that the right movie, obviously at the right time, can be extraordinary business. I mean, I saw it get out four times in a theater.

And I had an amazingly fun time. And I took a different friend of mine every time. And I went and saw it in different neighborhoods. It was amazing.

And so obviously that was an amazing piece of business. And so, yeah, it can be. And I don't think there isn't a magic formula. We did pretty well on the Informant, which was about Archer Daniels, Midland, and Price Facing.

But we trojans and horse the shit out of a comedy. And Matt Damon was great in it. And we did OK. But we also knew we were making a really weird comedy.

And that we shouldn't spend more and ultimatum money on it. We should figure out a way to make a smart business. And that's always kind of, especially when I worked with Steven Zoderberg, who I've been thrilled to work with for the last long time. And when I started working with Steven, it was right after Traffic and Aaron Brockovich.

And so Steven had made these two really wonderful movies that obviously have social impact underpinnings. But he always really imbued in me and in everybody that we should be fiscally, really, really, really responsible. So I think they're good business if you run them well. And I just want to say one more thing.

The other thing that I think is really important, and this is a big kind of issue that I think we're all about to find ourselves in the middle of, is this word, truth, truth, and true story, which people like to put at the beginnings of movies, and has become incredibly provocative because of the news landscape we're in. And I think before we do that, you really have to think about the fact that one of the things we're losing in the world is the notion of truth, and what a fact is. And it's especially in scripted movies that gets tricky to keep track of because you're compressing time and you're inventing characters. And I don't know the answer to this.

I just know that it's something that we all really need to think about. And for me, the only way that I can do this, and so if you're working with writers, really, really make sure people take the time to do the research. And I'm writing a movie about the White Homits in Syria. And I did not know very much.

I knew embarrassingly little. And I have had to immerse myself in this. And there is no shortcut. You've got to go and do the work.

And I can tell you, as a writer, it's a real bummer when the producer doesn't go with you on that path, because I need them. And so a plea from the writer is not here. Please make sure that you get the studio to give you a research budget and that you recognize that. Because even if you're making shit up, you can't just make shit up.

Because we're all going to be held to task now. Thanks for sharing that. I know that's important. As we transition to Q&A, I want to touch on one topic that's really important to the majority of our panelists here.

So, Shavani, will you share with us ever so briefly? Maybe a minute or less. What you've been able to do on Brian Banks and Wonder Darkly in the diversity inclusion world? So we were filming Brian Banks in Memphis.

And I remember coming on set. And besides myself and two other people, there was not a single person of color. And it really bothered me. And I was like, OK, this is unacceptable.

We had two offices assistants in myself. And I'm like, OK, where in Memphis? What's going on? So we took it with Shavani's pictures, took it upon kind of including an internship program.

But we're hiring women of color. And we started that with Brian Banks. We did that on Wonder Darkly. My movie that's in post right now.

And it's really small. But you have to start somewhere. And that, which feels you made a difference. And we hired six women who were from Brazil, from Brazil, from one of them from Africa.

And they love being on set. And it's like they're shadowing the director. They're shadowing us. They're with the writers, with the gaffers.

It's how they want to feel. And what they basically towards the end of the day take upon, after the whole production period is over. We started that. And then it's just it's little by little.

It's everything counts. And then on Wonder Darkly, our writer is female. She wrote in direct to the film. We were all four women producers.

Our department had so happened to be all females. It was really a very good set. Because it was like, oh my god, everything happens quickly. This is awesome.

So yeah, it's just, again, I see. It's a small thing. But everything counts. And it's just from where you can participate or help.

And I guess it's just, yeah, we started the whole hiring personal color initiative within our internship program. Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you.

Mike and Alana, the same to you. Could you share just briefly about your inclusion writer at Outlier Society and then how you helped Wonder Brothers create their program? One in her last number. Yeah, one in her last number.

Again, inclusion is something that's kind of like second nature, something I didn't even think about it. But when I heard Francis get up on stage, the Oscars, and say that it's a title, there's something in writing that I can actually have implemented on my projects, projects, outlier society films. And it just happened that just mercy was the first one up after that moment that was had. And everybody here at Wonder Brothers were welcome to do with Open Arms.

It was a success. That was kind of like the first trial run of how that was going to actually work out. And it worked out great. And they were gracious enough to allow us to come on board and help them write their policy for all the one in media.

So that was a big win, a small step. But it's a step in the right direction. And I'll get a long way to go. But hopefully that sets the president's going across the board that other studios and other production companies are going to start to kind of follow the trend.

You don't get on board. Started doing the right thing. Yeah. That was company wide for them.

That's big. Congratulations on that. Thank you. All right.

We have so many more things that we could talk about. But let's turn it over to our wonderful audience. Now's your time. I'd like to talk about people with disabilities for one second.

So one of four Americans are disabled, but less than 3% of those characters are represented on television. I want to be working on a project with a nonprofit helping veterans and first responders trying to get through PTSD. It's a very sensitive topic. And most of it is very real.

And my question is, do you believe that we're ready to hear the true horrors of those stories of PTSD? And how important is that to the character development? Yeah, I think we completely are. Again, just to keep harping on this, it really is about the story.

And I'm sure there are incredibly moving, affecting, heroic, funny, tragic, bizarre mind-bending stories that come from first responders and vets and people with PTSD. And I would love to hear those. Hi. So we spoke a lot about features and documentaries.

And as a person who does mostly TV, do you think that there is a space for a bigger space, for a series of social impact that can make people feel, I love the Trojan horse. But we really have to remind people daily about this. And we don't see a lot of that on TV. What is your thought on that?

At the risk of just repeating everything that Scott says, I think, again, this goes back to, if you find, I mean, the handmade tale, for example, is a really challenging, difficult thing to just watch, to look at. You know, Michael mentioned when they see us. I actually think television, at least for us in our producing efforts, has been a really incredible space for us to specifically target stories that might have some sort of social impact attached to them. We're producing something with AMC right now called Sixty First Street, which is another examination of the criminal legal system in this country.

I actually think giving people the option to invest in these characters and these stories over time actually gives you more opportunity to, you know, a Trojan horse, some more provocative compelling ideas. But we just generally look at content as content. You know, we produce it across all different types of platforms and for all different types of audiences. And so, you know, we make the consideration of where does this story best live?

And usually that starts from a creative narrative space. Is this something that should be told in two hours or 10 hours? Or can it go on to multiple hours over series or seasons, rather? But I'm really actually quite excited about the work that's happening in television and particularly on some of the streaming, if you come to the television, on some of the streaming platforms right now.

And their ability because their model is very different in film and, you know, we were all kind of very optimistic about like, yeah, this is great business, but it is very challenging, you know, to get a theatrical audience to anything these days. So I would say lean into, not that you were asking my advice, but unsolicited to send, I would lean into your television show that may be a little bit challenging to watch. Hi guys, this question is for Scott Zivers. Love it.

Hello, I'm fascinated by the fact that you went to see Get Out in different neighborhoods. And I'm more curious about why, which neighborhood did you choose to see the film and what were the takeaways from it? What did you learn from our society and culture? The first one I went to was in Marina Del Rey.

And then I went to like a Magic Johnson Theater that was further south and more central. Then I went to like the landmark on Pico. And then I saw it in Manhattan. I guess what I learned is, I think what everybody would learn, you know, is that there, you know, as a white person sitting in that movie, experiencing, you know, black people sitting next to me, having this amazing reaction, just blew my mind and opened me up to like, holy shit, like, how would I have felt if most of the content I had ever seen in that genre never took me into account?

Like, what would that feel like? You know, and I think that's obviously true, you know, for people in all sorts of groups, whether they're African-American or women or, you know, we can go on and on. So that's what I learned is that there are audiences out there that want to connect. You know, and it isn't always just a one-to-one, like, oh, I see that there is a person who looks like me up there.

It has to be more than that. But that was just really great to be a part of. I often have trouble figuring out or knowing when to stop or when to finish a project for you guys. How do you guys know when is your time to finish and to move on or to end a story?

Which person do you want to do for anyone that can answer? Shavani, you want to take her? Whenever Alana tells you. I'm pretty much what happens.

I think as a creative, for me, I'm constantly daydreaming. I'm constantly creating. I'm always in a state of dreaming or imagining, connecting the dots. So for me, I guess, you exhaust every idea that you can.

You want to squeeze every drop of creativity of these stories and these characters. And then you have people like Alana, you know, that you're trying to show other people other perspectives to help reel it in. So I'm the big dreamer. And she manages that.

So that's why I think it works well in our situation. I would agree. It's just you have a great team that tells me to be like, OK, this is it. And you know, you just kind of, of course, you always be like, there has to be a right beginning, middle, and end.

But it's just teamwork. And they kind of, you all pitch in. And it's just like, you know, when it's collectively feels right, that's when you need to stop. Or don't sequel can be made later.

Let's just stop you. And you're constantly developing. You know, it's great process. You're right when we shoot, when we edit, when we move.

So you're constantly evolving. The script is constantly changing as you're going through various stages of production. So you'll find moments where you can add and take away if you feel like the project needs it. So it's on, I think it's case by case basis.

Thank you. The question I have is, what are your thoughts on the representation of women and minorities in the finance sector? Because I see that, it's personalizing the project I'm working on. Can I cut you off there?

I'm sorry, love. That's a great question. It's strange because on Wednesday, there's a women film event. And I'm kind of initiated this with Amy Bear, who's president of women and film and Michael, producer, and Brian Banks.

They're starting this new thing called entrepreneurial pathways. And it's all about how women who want to make movies can get their fundings from, they can be new filmmakers, directors, writers, whoever. And it's just how they can get their funding from banks. It doesn't have to be the man always.

Sorry. But it's just honestly, I fund my own movies. But I have, I know producers who are like, we want to make this movie, how do we do it? So I think if that answers your question, we have this entrepreneurial pathway.

That'll be announced on Wednesday. I kind of pre-announced it. I'm sorry. But if you're not on Wednesday, and we're initiating that.

So hopefully that'll kind of help that. So. Yeah. This question is for Bonnie.

As you're experienced as a human right advocacy, and my biggest, biggest question is, because a lot of tasks you dealt with is for more mature audience. So what are your thoughts about running the campaign or adjusting those social issues to more younger audience, like family, TV drama, or kids friendly? Because I think this is the biggest struggle that we face in our knowledge, the younger generation, they are the people we need to educate on those issues. So I guess what are your thoughts on that?

Well, I think it's critically important. I'm one of those people where that believes if we're going to really make an impact as activist, we have to start as young as possible. My daughter is 23 now. She was a human rights activist in the womb.

And her playground was the Amnesty National Office on the age of five to 12. And what I learned there is there are so many kids in elementary school and high school. And you can take these issues and gear it towards them. And they want to take action.

So here's an example. There's two examples. One is a documentary called Water School, which was produced by the Swarovski Foundation. And it is about elementary and high school kids around the world that are tackling the issues of conserving and preserving water, addressing the different water issues in their communities.

This documentary, strictly geared for schools and has been hugely successful, is actually produced by UCLA. So they're educational resources for teachers. These kids are taking on these different issues. And it's being taught in a way that they understand how they can make a direct impact.

Whether you're in kindergarten and you're saying, why are we using straws? Mom and Dad, let's give it a straws at home to kids in high school saying we've got a real problem here with these water fountains that keep running. And what are we doing to recycle water in our own school? So I'm a believer in that.

And there are these documentaries. There are shows. There's something called Pizza with an icon where it brings kids in to meet with these individuals. And it's going to be on a streaming platform.

And these kids have pizza with someone who's really moved the needle, whether it's a Nobel Peace Prize winner, whether it's a local activist. And these kids come up with the ideas on how they can make an impact then. And really, someone that believes the younger, the better. You just have to make sure that the campaign is geared towards them.

And I'm working on two of those right now. Thank you. This is for a lot of slush, Michael. In regards to the inclusion rider and such, I'm a very straight male but a very strong ally.

So when a lot of people, I'm working on an initiative right now in the women's space. So a lot of very powerful people in the women's space. How do you think is the best way to be a good ally for different genders, marginalized populations, such as question-asch a lot of people. And I always get a great answer.

So I just want to ask, how do you be a strong ally? First of all, props to you. And also, I think that's an amazing question. And I think a huge part of the answer is asking that question.

I think engaging with people that are underrepresented groups about how to be an ally and what that means both in terms of hiring and then also creating an environment on any one project where people feel welcome and safe and supported. And then I think that the biggest thing that somebody in your position who has a lot of privilege can do is sponsorship. It's a huge thing that I admire about Michael. When we first met, he said, I recognize that women are smarter, better, faster at most things.

Yeah, that's a direct quote. And he said, I don't want to surround myself in my business with women. And hiring me, any number of other people around him, and he's in a privileged position to do that. So when we talk about inclusion efforts, we really try to focus on those two aspects.

I'm hiring an environment where people can excel. And I think you probably will have a lot of power to do that. Wonderful questions, all of you. Let's just take a moment and wrap it up before we head out.

I hope you're as pumped as I am about this topic. And that you'll go out and make great projects with the information that you've gathered. I hope you look at this report and you digest it. If you're a PGA member and you want to continue this conversation, please look out for our social impact entertainment pass force.