Conversations with Jay Bhattacharya: Dr. Marty Makary (author, health care expert)

Professors Jay Bhattacharya (Stanford) and Bryce Nickels (Rutgers) are joined by New York Times bestselling author, surgeon, and healthcare expert Dr. Marty Makary (Johns Hopkins) to discuss a new film by award winning director Jenner Furst, titled Thank You, Dr. Fauci, which critically examines Anthony Fauci's role in the COVID-19 pandemic. They also discuss Marty's latest book, Blind Spots, which explores how groupthink, self-importance, dogmatism, and careerism in American academic medicine have hindered progress and innovation. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro (Friendlies by Tess Parks and Anton Newcombe) 00:32 – Jay Bhattacharya introduces Marty Makary and Bryce Nickels, both featured in the film Thank You, Dr. Fauci, directed by Jenner Furst. 01:05 – Bryce explains the film’s title and where to watch (ThankYouDrFaucimovie.com). 01:57 – Marty discusses censorship of the film. 02:45 – Jay discusses how the film highlights former CDC Director Robert Redfield’s early pandemic sidelining over his belief that COVID-19 resulted from a lab accident. 03:40 – Clips from Thank You, Dr. Fauci featuring Redfield. 06:25 – Bryce and Marty discuss how they wish Jay had more scenes in the film.07:28 – Marty describes platforms censoring the film’s ads. 08:13 – Jay and Marty speculate on why the Biden administration might limit the film’s visibility. 10:20 – Marty recounts his initial doubts about Fauci, beginning when Fauci transported an Ebola patient to NIH for publicity. 14:50 – Marty and Bryce discuss evidence of COVID-19’s potential research-related origins vs. natural spillover 19:50 – Jay, Marty, and Bryce explore the virology community’s possible motivations for covering up a research origin and the culture of scientific hubris.24:07 – Jay shares Simon Wain-Hobson’s proposal for a Hippocratic Oath in STEM, which he discussed during a recent conference at Stanford University.25:38 – Marty discusses why minority communities historically distrust public health officials. 27:38 – Jay and Marty discuss a PBS clip featuring Anthony Fauci and DC Mayor Bowser meeting a vaccine-skeptical resident. 33:35 – Jay critiques Fauci’s fear-mongering, especially regarding COVID-19’s threat to children. 36:38 – Marty recalls the public health community’s reaction in fall 2020 to President Trump’s mask-wearing habits. 37:58 – Marty introduces his book Blind Spots on groupthink in medicine, now a NY Times bestseller. 40:45 – Marty and Jay discuss former NIH Director Francis Collins’s focus on genetic disease causes and the downsides for public health. 50:47 – Jay concludes the podcast. 51:08 – Outro (Friendlies by Tess Parks and Anton Newcombe). Resources Click here to watch Thank You, Dr. FauciClick here to purchase Blind Spots Click here to learn more about Dr. Marty MakarySourcesU.S. Senate HELP Committee hearing: COVID-19: Safely Getting Back to Work and Back to School (May 12, 2020) Dr. Fauci visits D.C. to battle vaccine hesitancy National Institutes of Health News Conference on Ebola (October 17, 2014) U.S. House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Oversight & Investigations hearing: U.S. Response to Ebola (October 16, 2024) Stanford University Health Policy Conference: Pandemic Policy: Planning the Future, Assessing the Past (October 4, 2024) Get full access to Science From the Fringe at sciencefromthefringe.substack.com/subscribe