Cooper's Dreams

Diane at 704 PM. Welcome to the sixth episode of Twin Peaks Peaks. We're covering episode 5, aka Cooper's Dreams. I'm Matt.

I'm Ashley. This episode is Chalk of Blockful of Events. And in light of last week's super long episode, expect less, um, let's say, gushing from me over certain moments. Even though there are a lot of moments this episode, I would love to just spotlight and geek out about.

This is an important episode. Yeah, very much so. Before we get to that, should we talk about Revival News? Yeah, so there's only one bit of news from this week, and it comes from IndieWire's blog, in which they did an interview with David Nevins from Showtime.

He's one of the executives at Showtime. And he's actually an interview with CNN that they're recapping. Oh, cool. So, all right.

So basically David Nevins is saying that they're giving David Lynch quite a bit of creative control, sort of an unprecedented amount of creative control. And IndieWire also makes reference to comments apparently made by David Lynch. They do not cite the source of these comments that say that this upcoming season will be shot on celluloid. And we had talked about how David had said that it would be on digital format instead.

What's right? What's wrong? We don't know. Guess we'll wait half to wait until 2017 to find out.

I hope not. I hope we don't have to like start up this podcast again, like eight months after it finishes or whatever it would be. Oh, God, you're right. Yeah.

That'd be kind of awkward. That would be really interesting because then we could go back and be like, oh, we were so young then. Listen to Matt. All he does in the first like eight episodes of the show is complain about his life.

But now things are great. Yeah, I'll have a cat. My herb garden will be up and running. It'll be adults.

No, let's be real. By 2017, I'll be lucky if I've actually gotten a driver's license and maybe started to learn how to swim, like addressing very basic life needs. I'll be happy if I reach that point by 2017. My herb garden will be on point though.

Okay. Well, I mean, let's see. I feel like it's okay. I'm flourishing.

So, yeah, but I mean, drought is a common problem now. It's in my apartment. Apartment drought ever heard of it? I haven't.

Therefore, I don't know if it exists or not. I'm just saying, let's not like last week, I was saying, two degree, I was saying, let's not get too optimistic about the revival. Let's also not get too optimistic about our herb gardens or other markers of life happiness in 2017. Okay.

Things could be bad. I feel like it's the big one. Yeah. Might hit between now and the 20s or five.

You're more worried about that than I am. But yeah, so it could be that your herb garden is actually the only thing ruined in your apartment by the earthquake. In which case, I think you should feel very lucky. Anyway, do you think the revival is going to be affected by the big one?

Yeah, if it happens while they're filming along the fault line, like, yeah, things might get affected. Maybe this is a plot. Or are you saying, do you think in the 18 episodes, like there's going to be this B plot of like, but what about the earthquake though? These old buildings in Twin Peaks are not earthquake ready.

I hope they don't spend much time on that. C-pot. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Moving on. Moving on. This episode starts in what I feel like is a, it's like how a person might start Twin Peaks fan fake.

Open Cooper's room at the Great Northern talking to Diane about something. Only this case, this something is actually like the first time we've seen him lose his cool ever in the show. It's just these shitty, shitty, party hard Icelandic people keeping him up at night. I love it.

One interesting quote from that scene is when he says, Today Ant, once a traveler leaves his home, he loses almost 100% of his control over his environment. How does this relate to the shining? Wow. Did I just catch you totally off that one?

Yeah. I think shining connections throughout the episode now. Also, every scene is going to come with my Nadine and Ed analysis regardless of whether or not it's their plot line at all. I mean, it's kind of the opposite of the shining because back in the shining takes control of his environment.

Yeah. Whereas Cooper is not in control. Cooper is. Well, I was drawing, we're not with Cooper in Jack Nicholson.

It's true. We're taught, we'll wait for Ben Horns. Okay. I have to say this is, it's so, it's a great like kind of just opener for the episode because suddenly, even though it's just almost inconsequential, like yes, such and such goes with Blot.

It means that they have another potential group of investors to woo. So it's, they're still moving forward on. Oh, they're moving really moving the plot a lot forward on burning the mill and Ben and Catherine and Josie this episode. But to just start the episode with like Cooper's now like a leaf in the wind.

Like he's just like in convenience. He's lost his cool for the first time. Convenience, yeah. And then we get the kind of what we should now be custom to, which is breakfast at the great northern.

In a certain way Twin Peaks like once to, because it's taken us day by day, which I don't know how a common of a thing that was in sort of prime time, serial TV at that point. It definitely seems like one of those elements that people would put a pin on and say, oh, this is them kind of doing a soap opera type thing and incorporating that structure into it. Because a soap opera would air every day, right? That's how soap opera is working.

Then just so that we're, yeah. So I don't see what, you know, a soap opera is not going to cover a week of time in one episode, I do. But yeah, it goes through the list. It's just like we got to make sure we see these people eat breakfast.

Sometimes two breakfasts. We're probably going to check in with somebody at lunchtime, probably in the diner. And so on, you know, we were thinking about how much the show revolves around food, but it's just almost like an necessary artifact of we're going to follow this many plot lines throughout, you know, basically at day at a time. Yeah, but you don't see that in other TV series.

Yeah, you wonder, tons of TV series where you're like, when do people eat? Has anyone gone grocery shopping recently? Answer's probably no. I mean, if you were to open like Mulders fridge, it's probably.

Okay, that's not a good example. I'm sure Dana has stuff in her fridge. Mulders by virtue of being Mulders doesn't have stuff in his hands. He actually just has porno tapes.

He gets to take out and he takes his porn out of his fridge where it's over flowed. Oh my gosh, the flirting at the top of this episode though. Yeah, this episode isn't already enough. This episode turns Audrey and Cooper up to 11 with just not like another TV show would do with like long-length scenes, but just like boop boop.

And then the very ending of the episode is like, okay, well, this has gotten way more serious than just like. Yeah, establishing that Audrey is 18, so we don't have to feel weird about it. So we don't have to feel as weird about it. We don't have to feel legally weird about it.

Yeah, as though the law is ever a good indicator. I want to bring up Courtney Stodden, but that itself wasn't good because she wasn't 18. No, she was like 16 and she had her parents written her mom's like there. Yeah, which somehow makes it like it's supposed to make it a death week dozen.

No, it's not okay at all. Just like, what do we know maybe in the medicines outside of what the show tells us? What Cooper's ages? No.

We know that he's been FBI for a while. Yeah. And I'm not considering it as a career path, but I have to assume that if you say you want to go to the FBI academy out of college it'll take you a while and he's been on a number of cases. Right.

But Kyle McLaughlin is ageless. My question is put yourself, well, I mean, I don't want to get too dirty here. A personal preference for dating partners is what it is. It's a complicated issue.

But put yourself in the shoes of an 18 year old with Tinder. Are you going to increase that search range up to 30 and then say looking for FBI agents? Okay. As an 18 year old?

Yes. As a 22 year old does my tender age range include 18 year olds? No. Okay.

So you're saying the other way around. Well, if you're 30, you're not looking for... You shouldn't be if you're not a predatory person. Well, because like when you're 18 it's like, oh, I feel so mature.

I'm an adult now. I'm like... What's the difference between me and a 30 year old? Exactly.

You know, age is nothing but a number. And he says I'm really mature from age. I'm looking at 21 year olds in my life now being like, God, you're so young. And I turned 23 in September because my sense of time is just totally messed up now.

That's why I have a podcast with you where we talked about a show that was on TV before we were born. Yeah. I will never shake this vestigial part of me to develop as a child that wants to pretend like I'm older than I am. Yeah.

That's weird. But if you think about it, so the common rule about dating and ages is half your age plus 7. We're both 22. So for us that rule gives us 18 as a hard limit.

Yeah. I'm not into that. No. I'm not.

I don't know if I could date someone like younger than 21 or even date someone 21. Anyway, this isn't about our personal dating preferences unless, hey, you're out there listening and you're thinking, well, these two. Swipe right. Swipe right.

That's swiping right on a podcast, right? I'll tell you what I am into though. Happa. Happa.

Now I'm actually into Jerry because we get more Jerry this episode and I love Jerry. Talking about, oh, no, no, no. I'm probably, I don't know, it seems like when we talk about the looks of Twin Peaks, so far we're batting evenly in terms of bringing it up. But in the types of outfits we would focus on, I think it's different because I want to talk about Jerry's shirt and those weird buttons.

Did you notice that? No. See, I know. I mean, Audrey is looking kind of like, you know, not uncharacteristic but more plain with her like, grey sweater at the top of the episode, which you may have picked up.

Yeah, and the part that's starting her hair looked great and there's another top Audrey later in the episode. I want to talk about Jerry's shirt though. Can you provide me a picture because I don't remember? I'm not that serious.

Well, I could provide you a picture but it wouldn't work well in the podcast medium. So for those of us who want to bring up your Netflix tab or what have you and go to the top of the episode when Jerry walks in, he's got this shirt on that has different coordination of buttons down the center. So some of it, like there's a lot of two button combos but some of them will be placed at a diagonal with a thread between them and then like, you know, horizontal line and vertical line and so forth. And it's so weird.

I don't know. It's definitely a purposeful thing not like he failed to sew his button on. Oh no, it's a fashionable shirt that I don't think I feel like I'm not a hundred percent out of touch with like men's fashion. But if that was a thing then, like a legitimate thing then and not a character like wardrobe choice where someone was like, what's the most gaudy expensive men's shirt we can find put Jerry in because that makes sense.

If that was a more common fashion thing then it's absolutely not now because it seems so unfunctional. Like half those gaudy fake buttons because otherwise it's got to be held with that shirt on. But then again, Jerry would go that far for his look. I think the real question is, is that shirt Icelandic?

Ooh, is he trying to, oh gosh, we need to put more research into this. I should have been googling Icelandic menswear before this episode. I'm trying to think of stuff out. Well, you didn't even notice the shirt.

That's why it's your responsibility. You did not appreciate Jerry's look. Also he busted an entire leg of a lamb out of nowhere. Oh my god.

I did not suggest that for our food segment because of obvious reasons. Yeah, thank you. Did you pick up on it though? Is he watching the episode trying to pull up the video?

Yeah, that's out of the question. That can't work. You could eat that. I would not participate.

It's a good thing you didn't suggest it because I would want, I would over commit. I'd be like, well, if we're going to do it, we got to do it right and I would go to the whole lamb's leg and then have to throw out 90% of it because I, you know, what's a bachelor going to do with the lamb leg. We could have filmed you cooking it, which I think would probably be our most viewed episode. Ooh, good point.

Good thing that we didn't do. Because filming me cooking it would go even more poorly than just me eating it on a podcast. So we talked at length last episode about whether or not we find the sheriff departments, sheriff's apartments willingness to go along with Cooper's intuition and deductive technique realistic or not. How do you feel about what Cooper, the shit that Cooper pulls in Jogren knows apartment this episode because I feel like after discussion last time, it would have raised all of your hackles.

What specifically are you referring to though? Doc Hayward also has a lot of screen time this episode. He's bowing around. Did they need to bring him?

He's one of the gang. So he talks about the shirt with blood on it and just says that the blood is AB negative and then Cooper pulls that the blood wasn't Jogren knows, I think. Anyway, Cooper just makes sense. No, it is Jog.

Anyway, it wasn't Jogs, I think. No, it is. Is that what the call Hayward gets confirms? Yeah, because it's Leo's shirt, it has Jogren's blood on it and then Shelly goes on to frame Leo.

Keep in mind before they know, he just knows the blood type right off of that. And then Hayward gets a call confirming whatever it is, sorry, I should have made more detail notes. My notes, by the way, look like a scribblings of a very scatterbrained writer trying to think of names. Because most of what I actually have on here are just names within two words.

So I would have just a very exclamation point. So, you know, I don't know why you want to put everybody face the face of my process, but you don't want to show them. Like you could easily upload your episode notes. No, I could do that.

It would be fine. You just aren't volunteering it, but you're volunteering mine freely. Well, you're some more character because they're handwritten. Yeah, you know, this is an Artisanial podcast.

Anyway, Cooper makes the blood type connection just off the top of his dome and then finds a magazine. Oh, but it's at the magazine is just able to say like, yep, that's Laura. But his reasoning is because of the Red Curtains. And then also while Harry is trying to keep up, it's like also, did you notice Leo's truck?

And then that shit all makes sense to me. But he's only reasoning for identifying that that girl's body within the photo that we can't see the face of is Laura's because he makes the same thing. Or just like, it's my dream. It's my dream.

It's a Red Curtains. Yeah, but I think there's like other forensic information that could burn that pretty easily. Like he's seen the corpse. But the thing he points to like, he takes out his magnifying glass.

And though they're going to like, oh, that's definitely like something about Laura's body that I know of. And then he's just like Curtains. And I don't know. Like I think after last week's episode, this scene suddenly like something I found myself feeling more, you were feeling last week or just like, wait a minute.

Harry, if he is doing his cop thing, which he abandons in his own way this episode, if he's doing his cop thing, you should just, at the very least, I would expect like a, wow, out of Harry to further establish the kind of like respect that he has for Cooper. But he just got stands there. Like I feel like, I just even have a lot of lines this episode. True.

But I think that like all of the inferences that he makes in Jacques Renau's apartment, while they're like technically founded in his dream, I think that there's other evidence that points to the conclusions that he makes. And if not that, then there's certainly that whole chain of inferences that leads to finding the envelope with the letters for Ronette that pretty much confirms everything that he's just said. Regardless of how shagile it sounded, like that's pretty convincing. If they hadn't found that, it would have been like, well, why are we doing this?

We've already been the hour 30 mark of our overly long podcast reaction discussion from last week. How did you feel about that letter that Ronette received that they go through? I felt weird about it. I feel like it was a cheap look.

It's a man in a dress joke, which is so, so done. And I never want to see again. Yeah. Yeah.

I also just like, you know. Also, like it's such a, like, maybe this is part of being raised to its internet, but in terms of a shorthand for what constitutes like dirty perversion given that they're trying to connect this to this magazine that was part of like, like very much not kind sex work. Like this is like, this is very much like the exploitative side of that. Right.

100%. But then their shorthand for network television audiences is it's a man in a dress. I'm just like, that's so fucking lazy and it's not even shocking. Yeah.

That's not even a thing. Yeah. That moment could have played so much better if it was just the reaction that the photo got. Yeah.

That's seeing it. But instead they go for this like weird cheap site gag. Which we're going to like kind of see again later in a different form. But there's also like, it just reminds me like the 1990s version of sending someone a dick pick.

I mean, there's no dick, but like it's that kind of a dick Polaroid. A dick Polaroid. A dick Polaroid. Yeah.

I mean, it's like solicited, but it's like very presumptuous about like the person receiving the photo and how they're going to feel about it. There's kind of no preamble or like, Forte involved. No. Yeah.

Now on the subject of weird sex stuff, I'm making air quotes, listeners at home. Weird sex stuff. Let's talk about safe sex and guns. Because what Bobby and Shoely are doing in their foreplay with Bob, every time Bobby swings that pistol with a pearl grips around in the next scene, it's like, if I were to make a commentary track, I'd just be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, watch out.

To the point where he's like straight up caressing with a gun pointed at her and he's not like a gun nut. But I've been around the internet. Well, this doesn't come up a lot. I learned most things about the world from Chanson County on the internet.

I know what quote unquote trigger discipline is and he's got his finger on the trigger of the gun at all times, which you're not supposed to do ever. If you're just, if you're not intending to fire at it, something, you don't do that. And he's not trying to fire it. He is intending to get down dirty with Shelly.

And I'm just like, this is the worst, Bobby. But I feel for him later in the episode. When we talk just in general about Dana Ashbrook's performance in this episode. I love it.

I'm so into it. I like him talking to hypothetical Leo very into that like over the top Bobby shit that we've seen in most episodes. You know what I just remembered? There's this web series.

I can't believe me remember the name of it. I'm gonna make a note and try and do a do shout out to it next episode. But it was a web series following the dating life of a woman and Dana Ashbrook appears at one point as like one of her potential online suitors. And I think what he does is sends a dick pick just to make that connection to what we were talking about and Dana Ashbrook.

Ashbrook does a dick pick and a totally different show that's not been peeks. There you go. Or maybe I'm remembering wrong. I'm pretty sure.

No, because you know what he looks like now. He's got like a straight up like silver fox hair. Yeah, so it's an incredible draw line. Yes, he aged very well.

Yeah, definitely, definitely would be happy to see him appear on the revival. And like you're saying his performance this episode is great. Yeah, but then we go from the over the top big. Gun safety violations.

Yeah, Bobby. To the scene with Dr. Jacobi where we see kind of a different side of Bobby. Yeah.

We see. I have forgotten about this scene. Like I wasn't anticipating it on this rewatch, but it stands out more to me now. Like a lot of things because I saw a firewalk with me and this field.

This is like where we feel and I feel like as much as we're going to get Bobby's backstory prior to Laura's death exclusive of watching that movie. Because suddenly all of his weird like dog barking, which sparked theories about dog barking cult. And even his unsafe gun practices around. And then by Shelley are suddenly explaining this one moment by him just like both like breaking down and then opening up to Jacobi and revealing that none of this like tough guy stuff was really that much of his like in terms of like what he's actually doing with the drug and so forth seems to have been his idea.

I mean, he probably still has like a shitty personality. Well, I bet what it was. Like, I mean, I think what the scene or at least we can talk about whether or not in therapy, you know, we can try to like all that character and try to pick apart whether or not Bobby's actually opening up to Jacobi or telling a story to Jacobi or story to himself. Or I mean, like Jacobi's being pretty leading with his questions.

Yeah. And if we take it kind of a face value, I think what we get the idea of is like, yeah, Bobby was probably the shitty like mean bully quarterback prior to dating Laura. And then Laura in her dark place seized on that and then kind of pulled him into this thing that you didn't necessarily want to be a part of. And it makes a scene where he goes like afraid and then like suddenly burst out of those natural enemies being questioned by his dad make more sense if you kind of take that as who Bobby was.

And oh my God, Jacobi's question was like, did you cry? Did she laugh at you? Like that's the thing is like that's so intense. Like it's I remember first watching it and being like, wow, that's like really mean.

But I think what's weird about Jacobi's character is that his over the top presentation and his like undoubtedly not okay patient relationship with Laura bleeding into these other people he's seeing and talking to. We talked about him spreading confidentiality. Like he's clearly got all that wrong, but like he knows Laura and he knows enough just from his glance at Bobby to immediately hit on that and like break him open. Well, is it like using information that he has from his sessions with Laura kind of against Bobby?

Yeah, I mean, there's definitely the possibility that Laura has told him all that information. Yeah, but rather than see that as being like a bullying tactic on his part, which is I think how I came came the scene earlier, like thinking about it. It's like Jacobi's clearly got weird motives here, but I don't think he's trying to like break Bobby. I think he's trying to help Bobby figure out who he is, but in the weird like through like really manipulative means like kind of inappropriate.

I'm saying I bet Jacobi is a character is or in his presentations one who like he thinks he's got his own life figured out, but look at him. He's got his three classes on possibly and has his like admittedly I think his office is pretty doubly decorated, but it's if he thinks he's got himself figured out what who is that? But I don't I'm trying to be generous in my reading the scene by saying it's not just like a malicious thing and it's really just a hell it's definitely helpful to get a sense of who Bobby is. No, yeah, totally.

I think it's like important for the plot, but I don't think that like it's without like maybe it doesn't have malicious in time. It doesn't mean that the actions and the behavior isn't malicious in and of itself. It's certainly not necessarily a good thing for a psychologist to do. Yeah, exactly to basically use these personal secrets that he knows about Bobby that Bobby doesn't know that Dr.

Jacobi knows. He should probably know this point. Bobby's far enough. He should be putting that together.

But he's not one of our mystery kids keeping it a secret from people that you see in a psychiatrist. Yes, true. I have a question is like, is he practicing in Twin Peaks and who are his patients besides Laura? Is that really a question?

This episode we spend some time with Margaret, aka the log lady, aka the person who talks to a log like as far as like. Is she filling up his schedule because this is a town of 5,000 people and he is financing trips to Hawaii? Look, we have to assume, I think one of the most assumptions one has to make when they come to Twin Peaks is that as weird as the people we see in the cast are, there have to be like the only other types of people living in the town or like one of two categories. Like, real soft of the earth, blue collar types, they probably all work at the mill and they're probably all going to be out of a job soon when it burns down.

Or they're also weird as hell. Yeah, I can think of at least one other person who is probably seeing Dr. Jacobi. Who's that?

The guy that we, uh, down a meet later. Yeah, I can think of another person who's probably seeing Jacobi, the girl who runs across the quad in the high school in the pilot. We don't really know how she knows where Margaret Hill is, but I mean, she probably is seeing him probably. Yeah, grief is like.

He's actually, that's probably how he's financing his trip to Hawaii is through grief counseling. Look, he lives in a small town where probably a sizable percentage of the town believes in a dark presence that lives in the woods. And a lot of people seem to be really concerned with the avian life around the city, around the town rather being all weird. I think he's probably doing fine.

Also, he's probably cheaper to book trips of Hawaii than. Probably. Also, he can be 50 about it. You can go to resorts that are newly opening in their kind of test phases and get a really great deal.

Don't ask me how I know that. Anyway. I think there's one other important thing though from that scene, and that's kind of Bobby's description of Laura and her efforts to like make the world a better place that then draw her back into the darkness, which I think explains a lot of the like kind of dual personality that we're seeing revealed where she's doing meals on wheels and like tutoring people in English and like helping out with Johnny and then she also has this like very dark personal life that seems like a lot of people were apparently privy to. Yeah.

I think on the use net boards in particular, people are kind of confused about how this is all one person. Well, I bet one of those theories that it was always two people all along, isn't it? Is that one of the theories? Yes.

Yeah. Figures. Okay. Of course there would be that theory with Maddie.

Also, Maddie, do we want to do food in the middle episode? We haven't done that before. We can leave it till the end. It's from the, it's our food this episode.

Spoiler comes from the scene, the one scene with Maddie this episode. Outfitpoint number two, Maddie Sweater. She's really great. She has great sweaters.

Just fantastic. While we're talking about scenes that are supposed to reveal a lot about characters, though before we see Maddie meet with Donna and James, we get a Donna and James scene. I bet you didn't take that note because you're like committed to not talking about those. But it's like trying to be a really important moment as they have this like weird Sunlit Gazebo meeting.

It's so soapy. Yeah. And then James spills this whole backstory about his mom who was a really great writer, but now she just gets drunk in different towns and sleeps around with a lot of men. And this is like to explain James's kind of his whole deal essentially.

He's supposed to be explained by this. Don't get his dad left. His dad is a musician and he comes from artistic temperament. Yeah.

And I love the exposure we get to James's artistic temperament later on in the show. Just wait. But it's just, it doesn't work for me as a scene because it is all just this exposition. It's not just that it's James and Donna.

It's like all the James and Donna scenes. It's the one where just like, what? It's someone that you were seeing like called this specific meeting with you to like just dump some baggage on you. And like not saying that like your background is baggage, but like that's how James is like treating this information about himself and how he's presenting it.

It's like a, you know, is this going to break a relationship to his father? You like that? You know, if it's all fathers, the way that like a person like that might dramatize their own life and how that would impede on one's relationship. Let's move away from the two characters.

It seems like you and I dislike the most. And on to the characters I like the most. Namely Nadine and Ed. Trape Renner Corner.

Trape Renner Corner. Welcome to it. We don't see Nadine this episode because Nadine got a lover. She's off.

She's going to launch Silent Drape Runners and going to revolutionize the world. Kudos to Nadine. So instead we have to get a scene with Norma. Now Norma's man.

She's got her own man. He's out of prison. She should be happy. But no, she wants to ruin the great thing between Nadine and Ed.

And I tell you, Ed says to her, Nadine's not well because you know that Ed, he's there. He's a protector. He cares about Nadine. He's not going to break her heart because they're truly meant to be together.

And then I think Norma leaves without even getting gas or at least paying for gas, which is like a real middle finger. Also, she's like, don't call me for a while. I don't think he's done it. He just broke it off with you, girl.

Okay, Norma. Stop trying to make this all about you. Go back to your really shady, domino-sucking man. And let Ed and Nadine be lifted aloft on the currents of money that are about to come pouring into their life from Silent Drape Runners.

Also, technical point. The exterior of Big Ed's gas farm this episode is so clearly not the Washington location. It really bothered me because they only show a corner of the building for a reason. And it's the most bright and sunny California landscape you could possibly imagine.

But the first episode is clear this little roadside gas station in like the mistiest mountain range ever. And it's like those two could not be further from the same place. Bad job location scouts. Or maybe it's symbolizing the light and warmth pouring into Ed's life now that he decided to stay with Nadine.

It's probably that. It is probably that. See, I can analyze film and TV with the best of them. Yeah, you can.

You want to talk about something else now? You didn't seem to have a Drape Runner corner this week. I didn't have a lot to contribute to Drape Runner corner this week. I have some stuff from Usenet that we'll get to, but nothing for me personally.

Oh, well, then let's talk about Norma some more, I guess. I feel like we're skipping an important scene though. Which is... Audrey's best look of the episode.

Oh, we were gonna get there. Is that after Norma? Maybe it is. The podcast doesn't need to go step by step with the episode.

We usually do though. Yeah, but then we end up with a two hour long episode when we go on tangents. The only other point I want to have about Norma and talk about Shelley is, oh my god, their hair when they come back for their spot face. Yes, oh my god.

I also don't really like that Norma is like a business owner and like a business woman in this setup and that she kind of has that control over Hank. She makes him a dishwasher. Yep. Hank being just as scuzzy as possible.

And it's so fitting because later he decks Leo, actually really hurts Leo. That's not the worst of Leo's problems in the episode. Totally goes after Leo, but their character had to say, these are bad men. Bad men do not trust him.

Well, I think what's interesting is there's been this continual reveal of a new top dog and this crime thing that's going on. It was like Bobby and Mike for a while and then we found out that Leo was holding the purse strings on that operation. And now we find out that Leo is just kind of a placeholder for Hank while he's been in prison for manslaughter for the last five years. So if you're serious.

So you want to talk about one of, I think, I think he only appears twice, but I feel like he's pretty memorable in terms of like side-side characters, minor characters in the show, Emory Baddis. That's the guy at Horns. You want to talk about Audrey and her interview for Horns? Yes.

Well, let's get to it. What's working for you about that look? I love that she's doing something different with her hair. Her hair is actually noticeably longer in this episode.

She's doing a little more with it. She's pinning it back. I love the black on black look. Yeah.

Always suits her. But there is also something that really bothers me about this scene. Can you guess what it is? Is the part where she gets what she wants by threatening to fake, untoward interaction?

Yes. Yes. Baddis me too. I guess it could be worse, but it still stands out as like a particularly like, yes, Audrey's character is established as being like very small.

And able to navigate situations like these. But that's not like a smart solution either. It's just like a kind of really raw manipulative tactic. I don't know.

I think it's also poor writing. I mean, like you see this as a plot device in some pieces of media where a woman threatens to pretend she's being raped or has been raped or goes through with it. I think the most recent example is Gone Girl in which... Oh, I don't know what happens in that movie actually.

Wait, you're going to talk with the book or the movie because I understand the different endings. Yeah, I haven't read the book. I have seen the movie. But there's this whole plot line where Amy, the wife of Ben...

The titular girl. Yes, the titular Gone Girl. That's what I refer to as the Gone Girl. The Gone Girl.

Basically like stages and fakes these scenes of like domestic abuse, like in her diary and elsewhere in her life and sets up this whole thing. And then there's like another plot line about like staging or kind of restaging a scene of like, rape and sexual assault. It's just like, I think like a pretty misogynist plot device to use because it kind of says that like women have one thing and it's their sexuality. Yeah.

And women make fake rape accusations which is not true. Yeah, it creates this like sensibility and popular media where like that's a thing that would happen sometimes. Or like quite often. Yeah, and that then makes it much harder for people to have their real stories and relaxations taken seriously.

Yeah, I don't like it. It's not a great plot device at all. Yeah, it made me really uncomfortable. So, Missed Up for Otter's Characterization you'd say?

I would think so, yeah. I think that Dude is, I don't know, for some reason, like he's such a small part of this small bit like very important link in this like messed up criminal enterprise that's going on between so many different actors in Twin Peaks right now. Whereas like he's the person who decides to put girls at the perfume counter to single them for one eye jacks. But like for that reason he's memorable.

I think the guy's performance, I didn't look up the actor's name. But I just like, oh yeah, it's that dude. Like he's not a forgettable part of Twin Peaks where there have been multiple scenes where it's just like, or the scene for instance at the end of this episode with all the scenes. And so the isolated investors were just like, wow, they're just like, they have these long shots where they're like watching the dance that's happening between Katherine and Leeland later.

I was like, none of them are like characterizing and even have was just talked at by Jerry from the most part, which is also much like Jerry. His gene full line does not work for me. I hate it. So it's like there's so many actors that come in and out of the show that you're just like, what?

Like, oh, okay. I guess that was a person there in a scene. But anyway, what else do we want to talk about? We haven't talked about Maddie and her interaction with James Donna, which at least improves the James Donna scene.

By having Maddie in it. We did touch on her sweater though. And she talks a lot about like, she has that thing about like kind of like a psychic link she has with Laura. Or those are the psychic link where she knows the day before.

Like the twin whose astral plane is highly populated. Have you ever had an experience like that? No. This is where we go kind of X-Files and then I like test like your personal belief in the kind of themes or like supernatural themes of the show.

You're a respective of illegal substances. My mom listens to this podcast. Well, that's why I'm saying like you wouldn't talk about it if you had. Exactly.

No, I haven't. Yeah. I actually had a spooky thing that happened kind of recently. What's that?

There was a fatal accident in Portland a couple of months ago. And the day that had happened, but after the scene had already been cleared, me and a couple friends were driving through that specific intersection. Not knowing what had happened. And we were talking about a couple of other recent deaths that occurred.

And we decided to have them. And I remember as we were driving through the intersection, I said, well, I hate to say this about rule of threes. Oh man. Nope.

That makes me feel awful. I was about to say just like now complete pales of comparison. It's suddenly not a fun part of the podcast for me. I'm sorry, but there were, I feel like I talked to a couple of other people around that time who had similar spooky things.

The rule of threes thing. Well, in particular, I don't like that as like a memetic thing because it's always a self fulfilling prophecy. Like always when someone says it, like yeah, something is going to happen within enough time that you like latch on to and care about. Yeah.

And then you like just group it together. Yeah, which doesn't make like any of the kind of like morning or recovering processes for those any easier because like people always say it with celebrity. And it's like, yeah, actually there are lots of famous people in the world who have done important things and the likelihood of one of them like passing away is in total, like not bad on realistic. So it happens.

And it's constantly like making sometimes these false connections between like the three and just like putting this weird attitude over it. I don't like it. And now I feel very uncomfortable. Sorry.

Sorry. I just kind of put you on blast your whole saying the whole rule of things, the three things. But that's why it bothers me personally. That and the oh my god, this one's like substantially stupid.

I know you say that, but no hope, no cash, no jobs thing. Wait, what? No hope, no cash, no jobs, Bob hope Johnny Cash Steve jobs. That's like far apart and have like no relationship, but it's also just like a meme where it's just like, oh, I literally had not heard of that until just this moment.

Like hope of all my economy that kind of like terrible terrible. You haven't seen that meme before? No, it's the worst. I haven't been on Tumblr recently.

So I think it's not a tumblr. This is like, this is like, this is like, normy America Twitter meme. Maybe that's what I'm missing then. I don't you don't follow enough normies on Twitter.

No, no. Or people who reblog the best out of it. Was that your thing? No, it's not my thing.

I was gonna talk about this like vaguely creepy thing that happened, but now I don't have it in me. Well, now I'm really curious about this creepy thing. It was just gonna be me going on about my sleep paralysis again. So we'll save it for another time or for what happens to me next.

No, I'll say my piece on it. In addition to that, I feel like I get these moments of deja vu, like strikingly often. Wait from dreams? Both from dreams sometimes, but also like just as I'm going about my day.

And I've talked to some other people about this before and in my like small sample size, I feel like I get deja vu a hell of a lot more than other people. How often? Every couple weeks, like every few weeks I have like an intense amount of deja vu. And then I've heard that some people link back to neurological things.

So I have one of two ways of looking at it. Either I can believe that something weird is going on and just maybe accept a little bit of perhaps magical realism into my life as a kind of thing. It's a plot device. Well, as a look, there are definitely unhealthy ways in which to characterize your own personal experience and like narrativizing too much is like one of those ways.

But a little bit can go to at least make you not then like experience anxiety about what if my brain is going to break from something that can't be diagnosed. Yeah. That's why I don't want to talk about it. I was doing my own work talent at the end of it.

But I have deja vu a lot too. What's the point I was going to make? Great. Now if you're not so bad or maybe we can both haunt people as a result of our brain problems.

Eventually, no, this is terrible. We're just going to send to the awful way. 40 something minutes in, we're going to go long again and we just spent this time talking about impending death. I was already saying I felt too old for a 22 year old to feel and then we got here.

What is this podcast? It's Twin Peaks Peaks every week we discuss an episode of Twin Peaks. So next on the discussion docket, let's see here. We can talk about the cabin and log lady.

One point that I have that we kind of glossed over is the performances by Dana Ashbrook and James Marshall respectively. And how acting is the spectrum? I think that's all you need to talk about there, right? You're just putting it across here is clearly on James Marshall saying, hey, I'm not the only person that felt this way.

Of course you're not. I mean it's also it's also like the writing that he's given and to a certain extent it's like this is probably a purposeful construction to have this super soapy story line. But ultimately am I interested in it and do I find James compelling as a character? No.

Let's talk about the cabin. Let's talk more about the sheriff and investigative techniques. Harry is the one who is of the most in tune with. Let's listen to what the log lady has to say.

Yeah. And I find myself wishing that we did know a little bit more. Well, one we learned log big's name Margaret. We learned a little bit about a backstory and what happened to her husband, namely he died right after the wedding.

And apparently the log holds many spirits, one of which is presumably her deceased husband. Spirits would we get a lot of talk from the wood from the log about owls, which we will continue to hear about. But we get what is I think given what they I don't know how much the public is reasonably expected to know or knows at this point. I mean I think they showed that the train car was discovered on TV, right?

But what she says like lines up with a narrative of what happened the night Laura died. So there's like some credibility to it. But Harry is the one who like gestures to Cooper like talk to the log listen to it take it seriously. Cooper's not diving in being like to that and Zen y'all let's listen to this log.

Like he's a little he's like visibly a little bit more apprehensive about it. And the point that I wanted to make in contrast to what I said last week about Cooper's comments about Occam's razor and investigative methods is that Harry has a compelling reason to believe the log lady because he is familiar with her and he probably has past experiences with her that has proven her unique connection with the log to hold value. But then I want to know but now it's like that alone is making me it's one thing when it's a bit like Cooper's more in the position relative to the other characters in the scene of like being the like kind of like magical investigator Cooper. But the log lady is so clearly more on another plane and then it's like it would be nice if for Cooper's sake as the audience cipher we got a little bit more than we get.

We get some about Margaret in the scene but to know deeper her connection to the mysteries I play and maybe what light in the past she has shed for the sheriff on the darkness in the woods if any would be great because this is where I feel like I'm starting to see some holes in the narrative is they have this history and they have even the secret society which then again has been like kind of on the DL since the two episodes mentioned that is related somehow to this kind of story. Which itself at this point does not appear to be fleshed out in the slightest but we know something gives Harry faith in the log lady and we don't know what that is either. And I so connective tissue for there would mean a lot to me because I feel like there's value something there and it would be a great reveal for maybe the revival as to like what had happened before. But then I'm just like I can see it being a little bit hard now to take it at face value when you put Cooper in the log lady in the same box suddenly my perspective is shifted.

I'm just like no Cooper needs to be asking questions now. I mean I like that the log lady remains mysterious figure mostly because she's a recurring character and we're not expected to follow some kind of character development arc for the log lady. Whereas with characters where there is like an arc that we are following I do feel like more exposition is appropriate but I think that the degree of mystery works as a plot device and to a certain like I see what you're saying I really do because on the one hand. Sheriff Truman was like let me introduce you to this weird secret society and talk about the mystery in the woods and I feel like there should be like a big leather down book or something that's past the Cooper that we see him thumbing through later but there's not.

But it also feels like kind of appropriate that the people who live in to impeaks are just like familiar with her enough that they don't have to comment on it. I think one saving grace about her coming in and providing this information or the log providing it via her at this point is that they do just find her cabin. It's also like here's something they just don't know where the cabin is and they're just kind of like got in the woods and look for it. Is what seemingly happens?

Do you think there's like a deleted scene of Tibetan Zen? Go this way. Or maybe a regrettable scene of like hawk doing some more tracking that needs a more initial right path. They found a scrap of a French Canadian plaid that they need to go.

Probably. I don't know. More type 80 negative blood. Yeah.

What I think then kind of makes it work is as long as you suspend your disbelief that much more is that they do run across her cabin as they're looking for the other cabin. Right. So in a kind of like things will unfold as they're meant to perspective than this is this is pretentious. It reminds me a little bit of the island from lost.

With your talking about Rizzo? No, but like the changing locations of the island. I'm just drawing this out of straight up. No where?

The lost place is actually. The island like needing to be or being where it kind of needs to be more or less. Do you think that the that the I mean I already trust the log lady yet apparently doesn't know this is where she lives? Yeah, that's what I was saying.

Or at least she has this cabin. Yeah. Are you saying you think your cabin moves around? You think that there's a wheel that was once last to a polar bear underneath her cabin that'll pop it around the woods?

Yeah. I think the smoke monster probably lives in her basement. Okay, because now we're not even talking about motive investigative tactics. We're just bullshitting.

So let's cut to the next scene. But there is like that mystical quality about her that I... Also one thing, I'm never like, oh why the hell are they talking about log lady because of her performance? Captain Goulton is great.

Yeah. Part of the character, for any fault in terms of how character ties in the mystery or provides information or anything. You can't deny that her performance is just like awesome slapping white Cooper's hand and he's too quick to reach for the cookies. And that is a writing detail like that he is kind of beyond not necessarily knowing what her credentials are.

He's just like not part of the norms either. Exactly. Yeah. Wait for the T.

Also T, decidedly not Cooper's drink. There's also no cake. Yeah. Rewind a bit.

I can't stop thinking about that big beautiful plate of donuts earlier that they bring in to the apartment. Texted me about that plate of donuts. Yeah. I mean, I know that we shouldn't repeat especially this early in the podcast.

I would have been fine if we were doing donuts today. I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. We did that prematurely. We'll get there and we'll do tonales or something.

It'll be great. Anyway. I have a question about the log lady and the log for a lot of Twin Peaks. And I want to see if you're thinking along the same lines.

Do you think that the log is more or less in a very practical literal sense within the bounds of the story? Just kind of a filter away for her. The log lady to talk about things that she's seen. Like when she says the log has seen.

So it's an affectation. Yeah. Do you think that. I refrain from commenting on this because you haven't finished watching the show.

Yeah. Okay. That is if that isn't a thing to get your mind raising. I don't know what is.