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Sometimes animals can have bad PR. I mean, Anaconda and Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets personally may be terrified of snakes. The birds set off a panic about, you know, birds. The animal that arguably has the worst PR have sharks.
We've got Jaws, Deep Blue Sea, The Shallows, movies that convince us that sharks are the villains of the deep when really they're some of the most complex and fascinating creatures on the planet. The people who live and breathe shark science work hard to shift the perceptions of these apex predators because fear of sharks leads to some very real consequences on the conservation. Here to talk about her research on sharks for Discovery's Shark Week 26, we have Rosie Moore. Rosie is a biologist and conservationist who's no stranger to getting up close and personal with a wide variety of sharks.
Before that, a new study came out claiming that cats are more selfish than dogs, and humans, for that matter. And later, we'll look into something we all do and how it may be making mosquitoes stick around for longer. But don't worry, it's easy to change. My name is Dr.
Smithy Meeem and welcome to Curiosity Weekly. Oh, and for more shark science, check out Shark Week only on Discovery. Talk to a dog person about cats, and one of the first things they'll bring up is how selfish cats are compared to Man's Best Friend. Cat lovers will tell you about the strength of their bond with their pet, despite the feline reputation for independence.
Well, we now have scientific evidence that backs up the stereotype that cats are more selfish than dogs and humans, for that matter. Though cat lovers will say it isn't selfishness, it's smarts. Researchers in Hungary conducted a study where they compared the prosocial behaviors between toddlers, dogs, and cats, basically to test if each of them act in a way that benefits others without a direct reward. The experiment tasks a familiar caregiver with looking for a certain object.
The goal was to see whether the subjects of the experiment will help the caregiver find what they need. So the researchers rounded up the three groups, toddlers between 16 and 24 months old, companion dogs with no special training, and companion cats. They had each group sit back and watch while someone they trusted, in this case a parent or a pet owner, interacted with an object. The object they chose was a dish sponge because that's something that isn't particularly meaningful to any of the groups of subjects.
Then the caregiver would turn away while the experimenter hid the sponge, all while the test subject watched. The researchers ran this three times per subject, each time making the hiding spot progressively easier to find. The first time it was covered and out of reach. Then it was visible but still out of reach, then right there on the floor.
The caregiver would start looking for the sponge and the team measured whether each group would either A, look at the sponge, B, indicate somehow where the sponge was, or C, help by actually giving the caregiver the sponge. During the caregiver search, all three species paid similar levels of attention. But when the caregiver lost the sponge, the toddlers and the dogs would either move toward the sponge, make eye contact, or bring it to the caretaker directly. More than 75% of toddlers and dogs did one of those prosocial behaviors, suggesting a strong motivation to help despite the lack of reward for doing so.
But cats, on the other hand, they were much less likely to display these behaviors. They paid just as much attention to the situation as the dogs and toddlers, but simply chose not to act. Which you gotta admit, it tracks pretty well with a reputation. But when the researchers changed up the experiment and used something the subjects were all interested in, like their favorite treat or toy, then the cats suddenly engaged, helping the human find the object to the same level as dogs and toddlers.
The researchers say that this aligns with the social evolution of each species. Humans naturally help each other out, and domesticated dogs are naturally social, and were often specifically bred throughout history to do the same. Cats descended from solitary ancestors and settled near human communities on their own accord, likely to be closer to food or rodents, things they're very much interested in. Now you might be wondering, maybe dogs just learn to fetch things for their owners, or maybe toddlers just think hide and seek is fun.
The researchers thought of that too. They specifically excluded any dogs with that straining, and they ran a situation phase, beforehand, where subjects got to investigate the object until they lost interest. So that tells us that simple curiosity wasn't explaining the results. They also had the caregiver search without engaging with the baby or pet, so it didn't feel like playtime, and none of the test trials involved any reward.
So there was nothing in it for the dogs or toddlers, except apparently wanting to help. It doesn't mean that they don't love their caretakers or aren't excellent pets, cat owners put your weapons down. It just means that their reputation for independence is well-earned, and they don't rely on humans as much as dogs. It also means that domestication alone isn't enough to produce this kind of helpfulness.
Cats are domesticated too, after all. What dogs have that cats don't is a cooperative ancestor, plus thousands of years of being specifically bred to work alongside people. That's a combination that cats never had. So sure, cats may not be prone to helping us out or playing games when it isn't in their best interest, and you know what, we wouldn't want them to anyway.
Let the cats do their thing. Hey, Ontario, come on down to BetMGM Casino and see what our newest exclusive The Price is Right Fortune Pick has to offer. Don't miss out! Play exciting casino games based on the iconic game show only at BetMGM.
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Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Grief is a part of being human. The objects around us are tangible vessels of emotion that, when recognized, become intentional artifacts able to hold our griefs, so that we can spend time honoring what we've lost and why those losses matter.
I'm Elliot. And I'm Kylie. This is Artifacts of Grief. Every Thursday, we offer a conversation about grief and the artifacts that hold that grief, so that we might acknowledge the many losses that unmake and remake us, so that we can make meaning of these feelings together.
And what factors lined up to make it happen? Rosie Moore is an Apex Predator E.colidist, conservationist, and master diver, who is genuinely trying to understand shark attacks and not just fear them. She was featured on shark week shows like Bull Shark Dinner Bell and What Shark Attack. You can watch her work on Discovery starting July 26th.
Welcome to the show, Rosie. Thanks for having me. Sharks are not the only Apex Predator that you've studied. You've also researched snakes, namely the Burmese python.
I mean, what is it about these species that usually terrify people that have you so hooked? You know, I think I've always loved the creepy crawlies. The weirder and animal, the more interested I am in it. And so I started actually in shark research.
That's all I've ever wanted to do since I was probably in high school. I became obsessed with sharks. And then I got kind of swept in a different realm and brought into Everglades research, working with crocodiles, alligators, and large body constructors, namely the Burmese python. So basically anything that can kill you, I like to specialize in.
You've been working on understanding the wildlife interactions between humans and these really intense predators for over a decade now. So have there been any changes that you see now versus when you first started out? Yeah, I mean, it depends on the area and what kind of animals we're talking about. I think we have a lot of things happening.
I think we have a lot of apex predators moving into areas that we have larger populations of humans as well. So I think one, a lot of apex predators are getting more comfortable around humans, but also we're in roaching on their environment a little more. So we're seeing a lot more human wildlife conflict, both with crocodiles, with snakes, with sharks, with everything. Optimistically, I was hoping that as people become more aware of how these species might be threatened due to climate crisis, are we being more thoughtful in the way we interact with them?
I would actually say no. I would say. So here in Florida, obviously, so we have the second highest rate of human shark conflict in the world, next to Australia. And so we see, obviously, a lot of fishermen and a lot of people that utilize the waterways seeing more sharks.
So it leads to kind of the misconception that we are actually having this boom in shark populations around the world. So when really what we're seeing is an overlap of we're all competing for the same fish, or the sharks are coming closer and in shore to get the same fish that we want to fish for. So it's actually creating more conflict, and I think apex predators are actually more backlash now than ever. Oh, interesting.
Can you say more? Why is that? Well, so we both crocodiles here in Florida. So did you know that we have both crocodiles and alligators in South Florida?
It's actually the only place in the world where the two species overlapping coexist. So historically, probably 20 years ago, we had less than 2000 crocodiles here in Florida. Now that we implemented protections, the population is booming. It's expanding rapidly.
Still not back to historical healthy levels, but now we have about 3,000-ish in South Florida. So people aren't used to seeing crocodiles in their backyard. So as soon as they see one, they kind of freak out. They immediately call off WC.
They want it off their property. They see it. They're mill-regulating, which is how a crocodilian kind of cools its body down and adapts to its environment. They'll just have their mouth super wide open and it looks like a threatening posture.
And if you're not used to that, you immediately think it's trying to attack you or that it's a threat. So again, I just don't think people are used to seeing apex predators so close in larger numbers as the populations recover. So you're featured in two shows this year, Little Shark Dinner Bell and What Shark Attacked. Can you tell us more about what the filming experience was like for both of them and some of the stuff you got up to?
Shark Week is always insane. It's my favorite time of the year, one, because we get to do the craziest stunts. You get to do science, but you get to make it engaging for the public, too. So we're always thinking of how do we do this test and how do we collect the data, but how do we make it fun?
Which is obviously as a scientist that's your dream. I have gotten into some very close encounters and some life or death situations. One that's going to be shown this year and I'm a little nervous for it. Sometimes obviously we have close calls with wildlife we're working with because some of the situations, like I said, can be very intense and very up close and personal when you're applying tags underwater or doing things like that this year.
I don't have to say this when I'm going to regardless. Is I actually got lost at sea while filming? No. We had a tight schedule.
We had a big population of bull sharks that we were bound and determined to do the study on this year to kind of see what triggers bull shark attacks. And there was a few days during filming where it was super rough conditions, about six foot seas. Honestly, we're crazy for being out there. We had probably 40 bull sharks on our boat within minutes of arriving on the site that we've been working with.
We went down the currents and Jupiter are famous for just warthing. They are such strong currents and we were so focused on doing the study underwater. It was just me and Cole, my videographer, and I was working. I had probably five or six bull sharks on me.
I turned around and he's gone. Completely gone. So we were at different levels. Yeah.
One of us was lower, the other one was higher. So with the currents were uneven. We looked away for a few seconds and I turned around and he was on. So I, as a diver, you look around for a minute or two, you know, and I was like, she's nowhere.
He's gone. And so I was like, okay, as a vehicle. You carry basically, it's probably a safety sausage. We just inflate this long balloon to like use a surface marker to let the boat know where we're at.
Went to the surface. As I deployed it, a bull shark came in and ripped it out of my hand. Oh my gosh. I've never seen anything like that, but bull sharks, you know, when they're really fired up, it seems something fast and bright and has that contrast starts moving.
They go for it. Literally ripped it out of my hand, took my SMV with it. So mind you, I guess the surface. Yeah, it's the whole thing.
Weren't it right out of my hand. I get to the surface. I'm looking around. I can't see the boat.
We have a full face mass on. It's six foot seas and I have no marker to like tell anybody where I'm at. So they completely lost me for an hour. I was gone missing at sea and like when you're out there, do you know what goes through your head?
I was going to ask you exactly what. That's like my biggest fear because the normal thing is water. It's your, I would see. I was like, once the last time I drank water, like how long do I have to be found?
You know, you're looking everywhere. Those days were so rough. There were no other boats on the water. So finally, after an hour, they found me and they showed me the footage.
They found me using a drone. But I mean, a lot of the life or death situations you get into in filming sometimes surprisingly don't involve the wildlife, but actually the conditions. Speaking of the things that you get up to, a big part of your research is tracking and tagging sharks, specifically great whites. You know, you go to Grigal Home apparently.
So first, can you tell me like, how does one do that? Because it seems incredibly stressful and difficult plus the cameras watching. How does that happen? You know, my first time actually applying a tag underwater was on shark week two because I'm tagged a lot at the surface, but never underwater.
And you got a match. I think I was the only girl on that dive and I've got three cameras on me, two other male scientists that I'm trying to impress. Like, these are your eyes. You know, you grew up watching them on TV.
I was so excited to work with them and I was like, don't mess this up. Be confident. You know, and I feel like the more nervous you are, the more likely you are to mess things up. So I think I've gotten better about that.
I think for that one, what was that one? That was shark week mating games. And I actually had to like jump on the back of the tiger shark and manually apply the tag to be able to anyone. It was sweating underwater, sweating.
But we did it. And I'm super proud of myself for doing that. But we do some really incredible tracking too, just doing my work at the International Sea Keeper Society too for Great White Sharks, which is interesting because some of the ways we track them is less physical than you would imagine. So we actually used environmental DNA.
So basically think of, if you were in a bathtub, I could scoop out some of your bath water and you heard how cells in there, right? Like, you leave traces of hair and so sharks do the same thing whenever they travel through water for about 48 hours after they've been in an area, you can find, you know, old cells and stuff. So we actually use voters around the world to give us water samples that we then sent to Virginia Tech and then Jeremy actually analyzes them to map Great White Shark distribution all throughout the Mediterranean. Is that the community science angle that you all have at the International Sea Keeper Society?
Yeah, citizen science is just regular voters that are moving through the Mediterranean that are like, you know, we're going to be here. Can we collect samples for you? And then it saves us as scientists, having to pay to travel through, you know, multiple bodies of water in countries and pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to the research. These people are like, we're already there.
Why don't we just help you collect these samples? So if a huge plus for scientists, I think it's also cool because a lot of the voters, whenever you ask them to do that project, they're like, there's no Great White Sharks in Mediterranean. They're like, we've never seen them. We've been here for years because they're so cryptic.
Like when you think of a Great White Shark, we think of this massive large body shark that obviously you're going to see, right? But they swim so deep in, it's like where they really come to the surface where you actually see them. But then once we analyze the samples, we always go back to the voters where they actually were in the vicinity of a Great White Shark. And then how does the tagging, whether it's a researcher like yourself physically tagging a shark or collecting that environmental DNA, how does that help with conservation?
What do we do with that type of information? A really interesting point that I was just discussing with some other researchers I work with is a lot of times people think tagging is our ultimate goal whenever we're out there looking for sharks. A lot of times I've actually muscled biopsies and skin samples and other things like that. A big part of research right now in South Florida is actually looking at chemical transportation.
So you always hear about cocaine sharks. It is kind of a real thing. You know, we are finding trace amounts of these crazy chemicals and pharmaceuticals and drugs in sharkskin and muscle biopsies and things like that. So usually tagging is more of a secondary thing.
It's more like we already have the shark captured, let's apply a sat tag or let's apply just a plastic tag. A lot of the tags that we apply are mark recapture. So it's basically just a little plastic clip you put on the fin to where somebody catches it again. We can identify that individual and compare it to the last time we caught it.
Other times they'll apply a like no attack or spaghetti tag that actually will send a ping or mark how it's moving throughout the water like where it's going to to teach us, you know, more about migration changes or maybe where they're getting birthed if it's a pregnant female. Things like that. A lot of sharks that we work with it's still a mystery where they give birth. Now people might not know that in the rare case of a shark attack sometimes it can be really difficult to pin down exactly what happened or what kind of shark it was that was involved.
In the shark week show what shark attacked you use cutting edge forensic analysis to identify shark species that might be responsible for some of these rare situations. Can you tell us a little bit more about what that type of forensic research looks like? Yeah, so it's always really interesting because you think you got a tax base shark, somebody's going to see it or we're going to know what species it is. But a lot of times, you know, the big shark species that are known for attacks, tiger sharks, bull sharks, great whites, they might overlap in the area.
You find them in sometimes the shark bites are super non-descript. So then you're purely relying on just, you know, did anybody see it? Anybody film it? And a lot of the time the footage that you see too is it looks like it's filmed on a potato.
It's like super blurry, super non-descript and you're like, this actually helps me not at all. So you kind of have to literally be an investigator. You have to look at the bite, you have to look at the location. I think one that we looked at was really interesting because somebody actually had drone footage right after the attack.
And there was like a great white shark in the area and also bull sharks in the area. So then we're looking at, you know, okay, so you know, there's two sharks that are largely responsible for attacks right in the area right after this attack. So who was it? And then you're looking, I think in that case, too, there's a surfboard.
There was a surfboard. So then we're looking at, you know, what was the size of the bite? What were the teeth and prints like, you know, a lot of sharks, they actually have very different teeth, like some are very curved, some are very straight, like the great whites, you know, what was the spacing there? And that's kind of how you have to get to bottom it up.
Is there something that you wish viewers took away from that show in just in general about like shark attacks and what we might misunderstand about why they happen? Yeah, I mean, a lot of the shark attacks that you see, they just happen really fast and they were super, there's nothing you could have really done to prevent them. And I think that's something we looked at heavily with shark week this year too is since you can't know necessarily when sharks are going to attack, can we look at what factors were in the area when the attack happened and use environmental factors to avoid attacks. So like in Australia, obviously we had a string of multiple attacks in a row that were really crazy and it happened within like a 24 hour 48 hour period, which is unheard of.
But then when you really look at it, you see the heavy rainfall, you see the warm water, you see a lot of these factors overlapping. And when you put those together, you realize you're essentially bringing the dinner bell for some of the most dangerous sharks to cause an attack. In the case of bull sharks, are they usually only turning on humans when like some of those specific triggers are met? Or is that the spoiler for the show?
I don't know. So I've been diving bull sharks for probably like 15 years now. And I have a lot of experience with them. And what's really interesting about bull sharks is if it's a crystal clear calm day, they are super chill.
They honestly, they say like 30 feet away from you. They want nothing to do with you. You're good. But if it's a murky day and you have low visibility or there's bad conditions, you see them completely switch and they turn into they just want to investigate.
And it's almost like they do that with their mouth. They want to bump you. They want to get a little nibble. They want to use everything by their eyes to figure out what you are and if you're prey.
Now, as someone, you know, you have your your fins dipped in everything from conservation to these like science experiments to understand what makes these apex predators tick and how they behave. On the conservation side, if people want to support a little bit more, what are some of your favorite resources to check out or where can they learn more about apex predators in general? Yeah, definitely. I mean, obviously, I also dabble in a lot of citizen science projects, managing those and getting people involved.
There's stuff like the shark log where even if you're just out on a boat and want to report shark sightings, we use those scientists around the world can log in and get those sightings and use it to, you know, do studies or figure out where they're moving and migration patterns and stuff. So you can actually report your own data as a citizen without, you know, having to be a scientist. Oh, that's so amazing. And are there other things for other people's everyday life about conservation?
They should keep in mind if they care about sharks, something they should do differently day to day. Yeah, I mean, I think advocacy too, now, you know, the advent of social media and ways to throw your support behind, you know, shark scientists or some of the causes we're all really good about shouting out when there's an issue with maybe a new policy or a new lobbying enacted or what that does to sharks and conservation. So I think even just following your favorite scientists and seeing their opinions on some of those policies and legislation, so you can throw your support behind these causes. That's such good advice.
Like follow the experts, see what they're saying and then use that to build how you think about things. It's incredible. Yep. That's amazing, Rosie.
Thank you so much for joining us. It's so terrifying but fun to talk to you. Of course, thank you for having me. So nice to meet you guys.
Shark Week has come and gone, but we love learning about these predators year round. So check out Shark Week 26 on Discovery. Hey, Ontario, come on down to BetMGM Casino and see what our newest exclusive, The Price is Right Fortune Pick has to offer. Don't miss out.
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If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Is this a safe space? Because look, I know mosquitoes are vital for ecosystems and as a science podcast, we care about all that.
But also, can we all agree that one of the worst parts of the summer? A new study found that our porch lights might just be extending mosquito season into the fall as well. Mosquitoes are among many insects that usually enter a state of dormancy when the days get shorter and temperatures decrease. The official term for that is called diapos, and it's when they slow their metabolism to preserve energy, stop reproducing, and feeding on blood, which the news for us means they don't transmit disease.
Researchers have been tracking how light pollution in cities messes with different organisms' ability to sense the day length. For example, city lights can make moss skip their winter dormancy or nudge trees to bud earlier in spring. So a team led by researchers at Ohio State University put this to the test. They looked at the northern house mosquito, which is the most common carrier of West Nile virus in the northern US.
For their experiment, they involved community members across Columbus, Ohio, and the surrounding suburbs. Homeowners agreed to house two little enclosures of mosquito larvae on their property, one somewhere near a light that stays on all night like a porch or garden light, and the other in a dark spot on the property. They repeated this across two atoms in 2022 and 2023. The enclosures had these sensors that record the temperature and light levels at 30-minute intervals.
About a week after the mosquitoes reached adulthood, the researchers brought them back to the lab for analysis. And they found that the light made a huge difference. Mosquitoes raised near a light source were less likely to become dormant, more likely to feed on blood and more likely to reproduce. In September, 70% of mosquitoes that were exposed to extra light took a blood meal versus just 37% of the ones in the dark.
But by October, every single mosquito raised without light in darker areas went dormant. Yet more than half of the ones raised near a light stayed active, even sucking blood and having babies. Temperature mattered too, especially in the dark, but the effect of light was stronger. This implies that mosquitoes rely primarily on light cues, specifically day length, to time their winter shutdown.
Scientists used to think that cooler tone lights were a driving part of the problem, but in this study, they used whatever lighting people already had to keep it grounded in the real world. And most people actually had warm white lights, which tells us the common advice to just use warm lights may not actually be enough to keep mosquito populations at bay. But what does help? Especially considering that more than 80% of people worldwide live under some level of light pollution.
And mosquitoes aren't just annoying, by the way. They're the most deadly animal on the planet. Vector-borne diseases like malaria and dengue, which are both carried by mosquitoes, kill more than 700,000 people every year, according to the WHO in 2024. So to avoid extending mosquito breeding season, researchers suggest stimming lights, shielding them so the glow doesn't spill where it isn't needed, and putting them on timers or motion sensors so they're not on all night.
Plus, the classic advice to clear out standing water and other spots where mosquitoes breed. For Warner Brothers Discovery, Curiosity Weekly is produced by the team at Wheelhouse DNA. The senior producer and editorial correspondent is Theresa Carey. Our producer is...
Our audio engineer is... Nick Chrisme. Our fact-checker is... Lauren Koella.
And head of production for Wheelhouse DNA is... Cassie Berman. And I'm Dr. Smatheemine.
Thanks for listening.