Cyber Force, ROI, and the Case for Reform with Ed Cardon & Josh Stiefel

Should the U.S. have a dedicated Cyber Force? In this episode, General Ed Cardon and Josh Stiefel examine persistent gaps in the nation's cyber posture, from undefined mission boundaries to unclear return on billions in cyber spending. They explore the organizational tradeoffs, workforce realities, and coordination challenges that have stalled progress, despite years of warnings. With host Frank Cilluffo, they unpack what it would take to move beyond patchwork solutions. Main Topics Covered The failure of past "wake-up calls" to drive meaningful cyber reform Gaps in command, control, and mission clarity across defensive cyber operations The case for a dedicated Cyber Force and what it would need to solve on day one Why workforce development—not just recruitment—is central to cyber readiness The role of metrics and return-on-investment in cyber spending The importance of establishing clear operational roles between NSA, CNMF, DC3, DCDC Key Quotes: "How many of these have we been through, these quote, unquote, watershed moments that were going to change everything? … How cataclysmic does an incident have to be to get us to actually move one way or the other? - Josh Stiefel "From 2020 to 2025, if you take all the budgets together, we've spent $29.9 billion on cyber operations. That's as much as two Ford-class aircraft carriers. Do we have the equivalent combat capability in cyberspace as two Ford-class carriers? I'd argue no." - Josh Stiefel "[Cyber Com] just is not where it needs to be. It's doing great work, but not at the scale and breadth that we know we're going to need. – Ed Cardon "In my experience, we tend to study [decisions like standing up a Cyber Force] for a couple of years before we implement it. We don't have that kind of time." – Ed Cardon "Each one [of the typhoons] is a really bad day. Collectively, it's the perfect storm. And the fact that we at least publicly haven't made it a much bigger set of issues is going to send a signal to all of our adversaries that this is okay." – Frank Cilluffo Relevant Links and Resources CSIS Cyber Force Commission: https://www.csis.org/programs/strategic-technologies-program/projects/commission-us-cyber-force-generation Guest Bios: Joshua Stiefel is the former Professional Staff Member on the House Armed Services Committee, where he oversaw cyber and IT policy, operations, and procurement. He previously served as Senior Cyber Policy Advisor at the Department of the Treasury, leading sector-wide cybersecurity initiatives and authoring its first vulnerabilities study. A former DoD intelligence officer who deployed with Special Operations Forces in Iraq, he now serves in the U.S. Navy Reserve. He is a Term Member of the Council on Foreign Relations and holds degrees from Harvard and Lehigh. Lt. Gen. Edward Cardon (Ret.) served 36 years in the U.S. Army, including as Commanding General of Army Cyber Command, where he built it into a world-class force with 41 cyber mission teams. He later directed the Army Office of Business Transformation, helping establish Army Futures Command. His career also included leading the 2nd Infantry Division in South Korea and multiple combat deployments. Today, he is a Senior Counselor at The Cohen Group and advises defense and technology organizations.