Dahmer

In the dead of night, as people sleep, that is when the spirits creep. As the bell tolls three, dark things take power, we like to the supernatural hour. Hey, welcome to the supernatural hour. This is your host Raven.

Hi, I'm Chad. This is Rogue. I'm Embit. This is Doc.

This is Jess. It's been a long time since we have all been here. It's kind of nice. We are remoting some people in though.

Yes. Yes, we are. We're all across the country. Everybody is remoted in, except for me and Chad.

And we live together. So he has to sleep with one eye open. If you two are remote calling in, there may be some bigger issues at home. Something you're not telling us.

All right. So for the business, we don't have a whole lot of business. We have been extremely, extremely busy. This last couple of weeks, we've done a number of investigations and a number of presentations.

We'll probably talk about them a little bit later. But for right now, we don't have any upcoming events. We're going to be on a little bit of a hiatus until January. So enjoy the holidays.

If you are an insider, you get a newsletter with some of the holiday things that we're doing. So if you want to get in on that, just hop on over to Patreon and join up. And we will be continuing with our regular podcasts. That's not changing.

We're just talking about events and we will continue with residential investigations as they come up. As far as public investigations, we're going to be on a bit of a hiatus until January. We're also coming up on our 200th episode of a supernatural hour. So we're going to have some fun things planned for that.

We don't have a plan yet. We just have some ideas. But that should be about February-ish. Yes.

I'm some exciting ideas from what I'm hearing. So stay tuned, everybody. I'm excited for it. All right.

Well, we have done some exciting things. I don't want to say we because I haven't been there. No, we miss you. I know.

And it's been, you know, the dates, like when you were at the cemetery, I was at my grandson's baby shower. So, you know, I've had some things pop up even just this weekend that life has to take over. So anyway, you've been at the library, you've been at the cemetery, you've been at the hub. So I want to hear all about it.

Yeah, we're in Austin. I've never looked more forward to a hiatus in my life. It's been super fun though. So I had to write down, let me pull up it not really quick because I had to write down everything that we did.

So at the cemetery, you know, it was so muddy. Yes, it was. And I pulled into the parking lot figuring that it would be gravel and it wasn't. It was like two inches of soft gushy mud.

Right. And just kind of where we parked once we got out into the cemetery itself, it wasn't. But I'm getting everything set up. I had probably four inches of mud.

No exaggeration. Four inches of mud stuck to the bottom of my shoe. But it was rainy and it really kind of stopped while we were there up until maybe the last half hour. I think we ended up at a half hour early because everyone was cold and it started to rain.

For my group, it was actually a little quiet. We didn't have a whole lot going on. One of the gentlemen in my group got touched. There's a male spirit that was following us around.

But two years ago, we got one of our investigators, Sylvia. We met her at the cemetery and she's been with us for two years and we just love her. She's amazing. Two years ago, she had a very negative entity that was following her around.

When she got there with her group, she was just mentioning what had happened to her group and mentioned this entity's name. No sooner did she mention the name that we had given him, then he just materialized poof and her asteroid all night, which was kind of annoying. It was quite an active investigation. I know that your group, you said, wasn't as active as it had been last time.

It was a nice night. The rain beforehand, driving up there, was white knuckle driving up on I-15. But when we got there and set up the tents, no hard rainfall at all. It was a little bit light towards the end of the evening.

But it wasn't windy. It wasn't harsh conditions. It was relatively warm. It really was up until maybe that last 45 minutes or so.

And when I say relatively warm, you needed to be dressed for cold weather. It wasn't bone chilling. It wasn't windy. It wasn't windy.

If it had been windy, I think it would have been miserable. I think the only reason it got cold that last 45 minutes was because the rain was moving in and I think the humidity was going up. It was going up even more. Yeah.

Everybody enjoyed the hot chocolate. We had hot chocolate and we had red vines and red vines are gross. Well, I know, but they don't do twizzlers. So one of the things that happened, this has happened at the last two or three investigations that we've done.

I'll have the Ghost Meter Pro. And the idea with the Ghost Meter Pro is it lights up if spirit is in contact with it. And that has a dial. And the dial we can use for yes, no questions.

We'll say click the dial once for yes twice for no. I think Castle does it backwards for me, but I do one for yes, two for no. And I don't know what it is, but a spirit will make contact and light up red and I'll say show me one for yes and it'll click one for yes. I'll say show me two for no and it'll show me one for yes and I'll say that's still one.

Show me two and it'll show me one and it'll do that like five or six times. And I don't know if my, well, I don't think the machine is malfunctioning because finally I'll say Charles, who's my spirit guy? I'll say Charles, will you show the spirit that we're talking to how to click it twice? And Charles will answer yes and then instantly it'll click two times.

It's kind of cool to see that confirmation. And then from then on the spirit can talk twice. I don't know what's going on. Could that be a language problem?

Maybe. I don't know. But as soon as I ask Charles to show them how suddenly boom, I get too quick. It's kind of cool.

Yep. And then we went and did the American Fork Library. One of the things that's so at the library presentations we put on, we have a PowerPoint. So the PowerPoint takes about an hour, hour and a half depends on how many questions we get and how chatty we might get.

And then we do just a mini investigation, just enough to kind of put into practice what we've kind of talked about in the presentation. Show them like how the dowsing rods work and it goes to meter pro works. And then we'll kind of, you know, hype our next investigation. I was there last year.

I couldn't make it this year, but I was, you know, short an investigation. I was impressed with the activity there. Was it was active this year? Yes, I know kind of dependent.

Usually we do one of these or presentations. We had four this year. We had four libraries and community center scholars and say, hey, would you do this? But it's interesting because the American Fork Library not only is the library itself inside haunted because the librarians will tell you stories of things that go on, but right outside there's a DUP museum with what maybe four or five little log cabins out there.

Yeah, historic from when the pioneers first came into Lehigh in the area in America. And remember those. Yeah. And last year, there was a teenager from my neighborhood that was there.

He and his mom and sister. And they were there again. And there's a teenage spirit there that just thinks he is the bomb. So they were in my group again.

I've got, you know, my flashlights. If you take a mag flashlight and you turn it towards just barely not on. Yeah. And then if you touch it, they turn on.

Well, in one of them, I have a green lens. The other one, I have a red lens so that I can try to establish intelligent communication. Right. You know, for the listeners that don't know what I'm talking about, you get these flashlights.

You turn them to where they're just barely not on. And then the idea is if the spirit touches it, there's just enough mass there to complete the connection and the lights will come on. And when they work, they're fantastic. And so I've got a green lens, a red lens.

And then that way I can say, okay, you know, if I'm talking to a spirit and you want to talk to us, turn the red one on and the red one will come on. You know, now flash the green one twice and the green one will flash twice. And so it's just a way to establish intelligence. But I don't know what it is with the red flashlight, but it just it rarely, rarely comes on.

So I need to get another one maybe and see if it works better. But the green one works quite well when people, you know, when spirits engage with it. So that flashlight thing was that was one of the very first things that got me thinking that something was really happening in the normal world. Oh, yeah.

Because that works. Oh, yeah. We've had some really fantastic investigations with those. I had them both sitting there and I say what I always say when I set them out, you know, because I'll set out everything because you never know what a spirit is going to engage with.

And so I said what I always say, which is, you know, try to touch these flashlights. I say, you know, people, spirits can rarely turn on my red one. As soon as I said that, this teenage spirit boom, turn on the red one. And not only did she turn on the red one, she turned the red one on the green one on at the same time.

And everyone oohed and odd, especially a couple of people that investigated with me before and they know that the red one never comes on. And then she turned both of those on at the same time, probably, I don't know, ten times. And my daughter was with me and she actually got video of it. So we'll get that video up on TikTok.

Do you think that was the same teenager that I was feeling last year down in the basement? Was it in the basement area? No, this was not by the cabins. I think it's a different one.

Oh, by the cabins, okay. Yeah. Probably a historical spirit if it was not by the cabins. Yeah.

Yep. Yep. She's actually an adopted child to two other spirits that are out there and had lived in one of the cabins. We were at the Hubs Theatre again.

We've been there a couple of times and now three times. Four times? I think it's three. And that's another really cool, really cool site.

It is. So after we did the presentation, one of the groups just sat in the theatre and we had, we could tell that there was something in the theatre and that everybody was sitting on the stage with equipment out. And we determined that there was a type three, which in our little group's jargon is a demonic entity. And we had put a laser grid up on the wall, kind of by the stairs that goes from the seating area up to the stage area.

And you could see the storions in this grid. And we were talking about it and pointed it out and kind of, you know, you don't call out the spirit because they will come and wall up you. But you can roast them a little bit. So we were kind of roasting the spirit a little bit.

And you could just see right where the spirit was standing. So I pulled my camera out. And I said, hey, I see you. I'm going to take a picture and I snapped the picture.

And as soon as the flash went off, the laser grid on the stage, which nobody was anywhere close to. I mean, the closest anybody was to it was maybe seven, eight feet away. As soon as I snapped the picture, the laser grid fell over. And one of the guests was taking video of it at the time.

He showed me that video last night. Did you see that? Yeah. And we have the video of that too.

So we'll throw that up on TikTok. I have rarely gotten spirits to move things over. And so I was super excited because this is for me a rare occurrence. That's cool that it was documented too.

I was like, I hope someone videoed that first time and was like, no, we missed it. We missed it. And then later, when Phil looking up and said, okay, I got it. I was like, yay.

We were also getting very distinct knocks in that theater, you know, knocks in threes. Right. I was out on the concession stand at the theater with some of the owners of the theater and we were talking about business and different things. Skyler, one of our investigative leads, he opened up the door and he said, did you guys tap a knock on this door?

Because they'd all heard it three times. And you know, we'd been over by popcorn and the drinks and we didn't hear it. But a number of the people in the room and he heard three distinct taps on the door to the theater. And I wasn't there for that one, but I had been there earlier because I was kind of floating back and forth between the groups.

But I had heard one set of three knocks earlier and then I was gone when the second set, second sets came through. So it was quite an active evening. I remember that's the first place I saw a naked eye orb with a hub. I remember that.

Several of us behind one of the stage behind one of the screens. And didn't you say they were pink? Yes. Yeah, I think I remember that.

I was there for that. Yeah, there were several of us back there and we all saw it. So that's cool. That's totally cool.

Good venue. From what I know, those are kind of the most exciting things that happened. It's not some good stuff. Yeah, it was fun.

Our investigations were brought to you by Castle Photo Art. We're really grateful for Castle for his help, things that he does and his promotions. And if your photo needs to go out and have your pictures taken by Castle. We are going to jump into our main topic and I need to give a disclaimer on this main topic.

We're going to talk about Jeffrey Dumber. There are a couple documentaries out there that have become quite popular and we kind of thought we would jump on that bandwagon but in a different way. We do not want to glorify him or what he did in any way. What he did was terrible.

We want to kind of come at it at the angle of, you know, this mental illness, demonic influence or a little bit of both. If you've listened to us for any length of time, you know, that several podcasts ago we talked about, is it mental illness? Is it possession, demonic influence or a little bit of both? Which comes first?

Or a lot of both. Right. You know, does the demonic influence present as mental illness? Does the mental illness bring to the demonic influence?

Is it one? Is it the other? It is really, really hard to determine that but you know, we're not a true crime podcast. We don't necessarily want to just be serial killers.

But as Chad and I started watching this documentary, there's just a lot of things that we don't think of as it popped up that made me think, you know, we can do a podcast, you know, at this angle of disgusting mental illness versus demonic influence. So that's kind of where we're going to go with this. Okay. Yeah.

One of the things I thought was very interesting was he doesn't even really recall or remember his second, the second murder. Right. Well, let's kind of, let's do give an overview. So Jeffrey Dahmer was born in 1960.

His first murder was when he was only 18 years old. He was actually really young. And he committed 17 murders between the years 1978 and 1991 when he was finally caught. He had homosexual tendencies which during that time, you know, was really kind of shoved under the rug.

You know, they was not accepted at all in any way, shape or form back in the day. And so, you know, he kept it kind of quiet. So most, you know, all of his victims were men, mostly younger. He would strangle, you know, necrophilia, dismemberment, horrible, horrible things that even researching this just makes you sick to your stomach.

Leaving their heads in the fridge? Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to go into too many details because it's, they say he is the most prolific, most horrible, most violent, creepy serial killer in America's state.

I remember the time he gave Jay Leno material for weeks. Oh yeah. There's some shirts for sale on Facebook, but I don't know. I think the families of these people are still alive.

These are kind of tasteless and tacky. I mean, they're clever, but it's like, I actually think it's too soon. I'm sure the members' families, you know, looking through Facebook are probably appalled. I would be.

Anyway. So one of these documentaries, he's our tapes that he did and sat down with his defense attorney. You know, as she's talking to him and, you know, trying to figure out how they're going to defend him. He said several different things where I thought, you know, he was actually diagnosed with several different mental illnesses and I wrote them down.

The mental illnesses that he was officially diagnosed with were borderline personality disorder. It's got so typical personality disorder and psychotic disorder along with necrophilia, which they also called parafilia in some areas. And for him to do the things that he did, there's definitely some mental illnesses going on. And if you look at other serial killers, usually there's something really, really horrible to happen to them in their younger years, but he really didn't have much.

The only really thing is that said, maybe a little bit of neglect because his parents were going through divorce and work and stuff. But you know, neglect, it wasn't even that bad of neglect. He had a grandmother that he actually was probably the only person he really, really cared for. So it's not like he had anything super traumatic that happened to him two years.

But he did get into, you know, when animals would die playing with them and, you know, he was fascinated with the death of animals and that kind of stuff too. So, you know, there were some signs. Yeah, and his dad actually felt a little bit bad because his dad was a scientist. And when he, you know, was kind of showing interest in these dead animals, the dad, you know, you're not going to think, hey, my son's a future serial killer.

Maybe we shouldn't do this. He's just thinking that the son is interested in science, right? And so his dad showed him how to take a skeleton out of animals and bleach it to preserve the bones. And dad's thinking, hey, father's son, scientific bonding time.

And his dad did say that, you know, he, you know, later looking back, he's like, oh, well, I've just enabled my son to do all these terrible things. He did get into alcoholism, Jeffrey. And it caused him quite a few issues his whole life. Yeah, in fact, he was driven out of the military because of alcoholism.

And he had to do it. And he had to drop out of school because of feeling great, student alcoholism. And so, you know, if we got to kind of want to start here of going to the hitting that is it mental illness or demonic influence or both? Could this be where it started?

You know, because alcoholism, as we talk about on our investigations, we always say, you know, no drugs are alcohol on this investigation and not because we're trying to be a big giant downer and party pooper. But if there's going to be a negative spirit, they always go after the low hanging fruit. And when I say low hanging fruit, I always hesitate because it kind of has a negative connotation. All low hanging fruit means the way I say it.

That just means it's easiest to get. Right. It's like when you're picking fruit on a tree. On a tree, you go.

You don't have to climb up the ladder to get it. Right. The fruit you're going to pick first is the stuff that you can just pick while you're standing there. And it's just as good as the fruit up at the top.

Yep. You know, the fruit at the top, you got to get a ladder and climb up and hope you don't fall off and stand on your tippy toes and hope you're not going to die. So you're just saying the easiest to get to exactly. When I say low hanging fruit, it just means the stuff you can stand there and get really easy.

And that's most acceptable. Yes. That's what you're going to go for. Exactly.

And, you know, so you could ask yourself, with all of his alcoholism and all of those related issues, is that something that could have attracted? You know, I mean, maybe he'd had all these mental illnesses, but could the alcoholism have attracted the demonic entity that just helped further along the issues he already had? I think that's very very plausible. Anybody else want to throw anything in there?

Well, you know, it's certainly not going to help him get better. You know, alcoholism is it's a hard thing to deal with. You know, even if you don't have other issues. Exactly.

I mean, if alcoholism is your only issue. It still causes a lot of problems. A random thing that I recently read, it was talking about did the hernia surgery that he had growing up caused him to have a personality change. So I was like, OK, apparently when he was younger, he had some surgery and then and then there was like a hit to his head somehow during that.

I don't know. And then it his dad said that he was like different, he's like got a flatter personality afterwards. So I don't know. But apparently it was like when you younger before the whole like animal stuff and he was doing.

So I don't know. But he had hit trauma? Yes. Well, I said, oh, you got a hit to the head.

And it was like it was a weird sentence. It was talking about like get hernish surgery and then you got a hit to the head. I was like, how? I don't know.

It was a very random. That kind of an offhanded remark. Yeah. You know, head trauma can be very serious and change personalities drastically.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, head trauma can be weird. And you know, bodies just in and of themselves can be something that one person can withstand a bunch of stuff that can just totally, you know, ruin somebody else. Yep.

It just kind of depends on just, I don't know, your genetic makeup and everything going on in your head. So Doc, have you had any thoughts on this? A frontal lobe injury could definitely cause personality changes. I'm not sure.

It's interesting that they mentioned the surgery in surgery. I wouldn't expect a lot of head trauma for a hernia repair, but if there was something like anoxic brain injury, if there was some issue with anesthesia, I could see that definitely causing significant of injury. You get personality changes. I assume it's possible.

That's interesting. Yeah. The comment just got a knock to the head. That's just you really can't derive a lot.

I mean, like maybe I was someone trying to like find an excuse like, because I think it was like his dad or somebody. So it's like, you know, maybe like, well, maybe that's what happened. Yeah. Actually, if there's no medical record of it.

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe more of an excuse. So during the course of his, um, his trial, which only lasted two weeks because to his credit and I'm not trying to make him out to be a saint, but to his credit, you know, once he got caught, he knew he was caught.

He didn't deny anything. In fact, he tried to help identify everybody and, you know, get all the victims identified with the police. It was very open about the things that he did. One of the interviews was quite interesting.

He realized what he was doing was wrong. You know, he wasn't making excuses for it. He didn't, you know, try to, when I say, cover it up. He certainly didn't want to get caught, but he didn't lie to the police about the different things that were going on.

And he did help that. And he wanted to go to trial because he wanted closure for the families and he wanted, you know, he wasn't looking for notoriety for himself. It wasn't that kind of a thing from what I could tell in the interviews, but he wanted, he wanted closure for the families. Right.

You know, he was, he was very open. Uh, his defense attorney has like 300 hours of tapes, you know, from interviews that they did. He vocalized a few times, um, you know, that, that he knew he was going to die for it, you know, and he seemed like he, like deep down, he knew that what he did was wrong. And he was prepared to, to, you know, face punishment, which ultimately, I heard a couple of different things.

I heard one place say 999 years, one place was like 957 years, but basically once you get over 900, it really doesn't matter too much. Yeah, you know, 899 maybe. No, but you know, but he, he really didn't try to fight it at all. And, um, you know, they did say, you know, he's very cunning, very manipulative, very, because he, even before he got caught caught, there were a couple of instances where he just really kind of snuck out of things.

Yeah. The one that was really interesting were in the 14 year old boy got away. There was a thing was a Vietnamese 14 year old boy got away and was running away and the police had actually got the 14 year old boy in Jeffrey Dahmer convinced the police that had the boy that that was, this was just, you know, homosexual lovers fight and that the boy was an adult and turned him back over to. Right.

And he was like bleeding in several places and Dahmer had poked a hole in his skull and squirted hydrochloric acid in his brain. And the police still gave him back to Dahmer. Yeah. Anyway.

So interesting stuff. And that, that boy that was killed, Dahmer had actually abused his brother earlier in his life. So where I was kind of going at that angle though is, you know, you wonder, you know, deep down, he knew what was wrong. You know, was it him manipulating or was it a demonic entity that was manipulating at that point?

You know, I mean, I don't know who knows. One of the things, one of the things I found interesting, I just watched an interview earlier today, where, you know, A, he acknowledged what he was doing was wrong. And he said it was like an addiction. It was just something that he couldn't stop doing, right?

The word I heard him with a lot was a compulsion, but he just had to do it. Right. And then the other thing that he talked about was this fantasy of having possession, absolute possession of his victims, where he you know, that's kind of where his whole idea, you know, I can basically control them in depth and, you know, and while while I'm killing them, I can absolutely dominate and control and have full possession of them. And he talks about objectifying individuals.

And he says it takes a lot to go from seeing individuals as human beings to just mere objects for pleasure. And it's a, you know, it's not something that just happens instantly. But that was his big thing was this, this compulsion or this urge to just possess completely his victims. Right.

And the his almost last victim, the one that got away and notified police and ultimately got him caught mentioned and he had mentioned to, you know, in the interviews, but that, you know, he went to the house with with Dommer, you know, for the reasons because Dommer would usually entice them to come to his home for, you know, to take pictures. You know, he'd pay $100. Yeah, he'd pay money on it. He was a professional photographer.

This, this last one that got away and got to the police, he told me, says, you know, at one point, he would get drunk and that's another thing is every killing that he did, he was always drunk. He had to get drunk to do it. So again, does that, you know, leave him more open for some demonic influences? But they also said that he kind of had this ritual, which would be watching you usually exorcist three, but he also had a real fascination with Emperor from Return to the Jedi so much so because the Emperor has kind of yellow eyes that he would actually wear yellow contacts to emulate the Emperor because he just he wanted to personify evil.

He wanted to be Satan and he even said that at one point he felt like he was carrying out scenes work. But this, and I wrote his name down the house. See where I have it, but this, this last almost victim said that while he was watching the exorcist, he would also rock back and forth and he would kind of chant in tongues. You know, is that something that he was just doing because of the illness or was he, you know, was he possessed and a little from column A, a little from column B.

Exactly. Well, did you, did you read about the altar that he was building out of the remains of his victims? Yes, and there was a drawing of it and he was going to sit in front of it in his black chair and meditate. And I'm sorry if I'm looking at 15 skulls of people that I have killed and eaten, I don't know that I'm going to be really in a relaxed state.

But, you know, that's me. It's very easy. Yeah, it's like, like I said, a table with a bunch of skulls on it and then two full skeletons on either side of the table, one on either side with the painted and one of the things that was interesting is that he specifically in his drawing talked about painted skulls and painted skeletons and having a black table cloth. Yeah, and using it as a kind of an altar to himself.

Yes, but a place where he could meditate. I thought it was an on term. Yeah, so he said he could feel powerful and feel at home, he said. So one of the interesting things about this last guy that got away, apparently he had started to handcuff him and there was a handkerchief.

On his wrist and the guy was able to get out the door and go down and he got with the police, please try their key to take the handcuff off and they couldn't. So they took him back to Dommers apartment again, thinking this is a lover's spat or something like that. You know, they asked him where the key was and he said back in the bedroom and they were still not really taking this one. I say overly serious.

They went into the back bedroom to get the key and that's where they found skulls and things like that. And then all of a sudden it was like, Oh gosh, this is so much more than than we thought it was. They called him back up. They got a lot of hope from that standpoint.

They took Dommers down to the station to interrogate him and they were interrogating him. And he was being so honest about everything and answering all of the questions and just laying it all out. You know, what had gone on? What he could remember over the last 10 or 12 years, whatever it had been.

And just trying to get them all the information he could. The detective didn't believe him until he found out that the police McCaldub said no, there are skulls or heads in the refrigerator. The first thing that they found when they went back into the bedroom to get the key, he had an open grower in his dresser that had Polaroids of dismembered bodies. And one of the police officers, one of the two police officers was there just happened to notice that he took him out and he took him and showed him to the police officer and said, these are for real.

Yeah, and they were in that room. I mean, you know, this wasn't like something he got off the internet or through somewhere else. They were Polaroids that were taken in that room in his room. Wow, busted.

Yeah, so kind of going back to Chad, you started to talk about it. And then we got sidetracked by the second murder that he he did. Again, he was probably only 19 or 20 at that point because he killed his first victim at 18 and then he went for quite a long time before he killed the second one. But with the second one, he was completely blacked out.

And when he was being interviewed, he said, yeah, he gave details of every single one. But he said the second one. I don't remember. He says, I woke up and his head was crushed and his chest was bloodied and crushed.

And my arm was black and blue, but he says, I have zero recollection of what happened, which is really interesting because he's so honest and forth right with every other victim. You know, there's no reason for him not to be honest about this one, that it's it was a complete mystery to him. You know, it doesn't it would make sense to go, well, you know, 16 of them. Here's all the gruesome things I did on number 17.

I've got to hide something. Was he was he an alcoholic at that time? Could have been just alcoholic blackout. Yes, it could have been an alcoholic blackout, but he doesn't even remember meeting up with the guy, you know, so it's, you know, again, yeah, I mean, he totally could be just a total blank because of the alcoholism or did he drink a lot and then opened himself up, you know, to be jumped into by a demonic entity.

Because when people have been, you know, jumped into or possessed, they lose time. You know, again, we don't know, but it's interesting to to contemplate and wonder. So do we have some takeaways from this? Don't go home with men from the bar.

So one of the things as I was kind of researching this angle, there's a fellow named Brad Hambrick. That's just Brad Hambrick.com backslash-domer, I believe, is the website. And he said, Domer is someone for whom both demonic and subhuman explanations are strongly held. So it's not just my weird little brain that is trying to put things together.

It's, it's, there are others. There are others. And one thing, and I don't want to make it sound like he's a saint, but while he was in prison, he was in prison for a short time. He was only there for about three years before he was killed, maybe not even three, two and a half.

He was killed by another inmate and there's three of them and the one inmate killed Domer and the other of the three. And he said, you know, that he had been called to do that work. But before that, Jeffrey Domer had gotten baptized and, you know, arrested a Bible and became a born-again Christian. You know, and, and I don't know, you know, I'm sure that his family, if his family's listening to me, they would probably be like, you know, I don't even care.

He's a horrible man and he did horrible, horrible things. But there's that part of me that thinks, you know, in the afterlife, he will pay for what he did. You know, but I do hope that at some point he, you know, tried to atone for what he did. Like I said, it's possible.

It's all ordered. Yeah. All we were, while we were kind of discussing it and you mentioned, you know, the possibility of demonic possession, I just kind of thought of the parallels of Jeffrey Domer exhibiting demonic behavior, really. I mean, his urge to possess completely right to the point where he could consume his victims, literally consume his victims could be likened to a demonic entity trying to possess an individual, really.

Absolutely. Well, and then, you know, and I do think that deep down, you know, whatever his, his reasons, you know, whether it was mental illness, whether it was demonic possession, whether it was both, I think deep down, he knew that what he was doing was wrong. He even in the interviews said he knew it. He was just, it was just that compulsion.

But he did say, you know, the only person that can save you from this is Jesus Christ. And those are his own words. You know, and I don't know how saved he can be based on what he did, but you know, he did acknowledge that and he from the get-go, he always took responsibility for what he did. For his actions, you know, he never blamed it or tried to hide it.

Well, he tried to hide it before he got caught. Yeah. Well, after he got caught, it was like, no, you know, we'll just we're gonna lay it all out. And I think in probably in a way, just listening to the little bit that he did, it was almost like he was relieved that he got caught.

With compulsions, you don't necessarily want to do the things that you're compelled to do. Yeah. But you can't, you can't help it. Yeah, when he was in the military, I mean, he went almost eight years between murders.

I mean, he didn't have a murder while he was in Germany. And they asked him, you know, well, why didn't you kill anybody during that time period? He said it just wasn't feasible. It wasn't physically possible.

It's not that I didn't have the urges to do it. I was in the military where my activities were tracked pretty closely, pretty closely. And so, you know, he said I had the urges to do it. I just never had the opportunity.

I never had the opportunity to do it, exactly. Anyway, just some things to think about. I think we need to move on from him. He's Greeky.

Do something a little lighter. Yes. Okay. Well, check out our shop, AdvancedParanormal.com.

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So we do that. We want to give a shout out to our patrons who also help support us. I think we've got nine or 10 patrons and we appreciate their ongoing support to be able to help pay for the websites and all of the different things that we do. And then did you have a segment ready?

Sure. In fact, I want to talk about most of the last month I've been down for medical reasons. But while I was home convalescing, I went out the backyard. It was a nice, it was a clear night.

And I just happened to see a new UFO configuration that I have not seen before. Oh, wow. Right from my backyard. And this appeared just as a point, just looking up at the sky, a point of light that just came out of nowhere.

It was very bright. It was like a snore appearing. Then it stretched out into a bright line. Just a straight white line.

It just grew from a point to a white line about the length of, oh, the size of a silver dollar held at arm's length. And then this thing traveled overhead, maybe 12 or 15 degrees. And then that line turned back into a point and disappeared. I've never seen anything like that before in my life.

Wow. That's pretty cool. And just right there over the house. You know, I have seen a few UFOs there in the past, but not very common.

Right. And I have never heard of anything like this before. So I'm reaching out now with some of my contacts to see if this configuration has ever seen before. But everybody listening, we don't just do ghosts and spirits and things.

But we also look at the sky from time to time and do look at the UFO connections. So I am spent quite a bit of time out on Skin Rocker Ranch with the production, correct? Well, yeah, last year I did. I spent three days and nights working with the show.

I was on season three, episode four. Then if you saw the episode with the telescope guys, I was one of the telescope guys. Yeah, that episode is. Silver.

Silver. Yeah, you're the silver one. The silver one actually reaches two years older than I, but that's okay. I was just trying to help them though.

So yeah, that was cool because that's the night we actually saw the biggest and brightest and closest UFO that's ever been seen on Skin Rocker Ranch before. It just happened to be when I was there. Still to this day that even the cast says that's one of their favorite episodes. Yeah.

And for our listeners that may not know this, Emmett is an astronomer also. Ghost, he's a Renaissance man, a man of many talents. Just an advanced amateur. I'm not a professional astronomer, but I've been doing it for over half a century and founding member of one of the local astronomical societies.

So they're out a long time. So I was just very lucky to get the chance to work with the show myself and two other advanced amateurs who might known for a while. Emmett, you have a pitch for your astronomical society for the local astronomical society. I'm with the Salt Lake Astronomical Society.

My two friends who were on the show with me there with the Utah Valley Astronomical Society and Boulder Terrific Clubs. So it just depends on where you live. Can they find those on the web? Can they just search for those?

Yeah, I think it's uva.org for the Utah Valley Club or the Salt Lake Club is SLAS. It's either SLAS.ut or SLAS.org. So try those. All right.

Those sound interesting. Yep. So if you know whichever one Salt Lake or Utah Valley and even Rich, who's the president of the Utah Valley Club, he's actually come on some investigations with advanced in the past as well. There's quite a bit of crossover between the people who look at the sky a lot for UFOs and the people who go ghost hunting.

So it's not one or the other. As I'm going to say, if you're interested in astronomy and you're not local, you can probably just look at those up on the internet for astronomical societies in your area. Yep. They're all over the country.

Most societies are patterned pretty closely. They're just clubs of like-minded people and they're all terrific people. They'll people go out of their way to help you if you have an interest in astronomy. That's a good place to start.

All right. What do we got next? So I was kind of thinking I have another range that has- it's from Maine. It's the- it's green tourmaline.

So I was like, okay, well, let me think about like what's the Florida stone? So the official state zone of Florida is Agatized Coral. And so it's also the official stone of Michigan. So I guess all that leak there.

But it's supposed to be for like helping with recovering from physical or mental trauma, which is pretty interesting. And it was created- I was looking at that up and it disappeared. But it was created like I don't know like 20 million years ago and stuff like that. So I thought it was kind of interesting because like yeah, it makes sense for Florida and its waters.

So I think and I look at it and I was like, oh, I have seen that at mineral convention. So yeah, I got to look into it deeper. All right. Before the jump drawer, I want to remind you all about the Supernatural Hour swag at advancedparanormal.com.

For all, I mean all of your swag beans. There's some cool swag on there. I actually just looked at it the other day. Should I be worried?

Maybe. Maybe, but I bought a new piece of equipment. So now I think you're okay. What'd you get?

I don't know what it's called. It's triangle shaped. It's orange. It's got a green light and a red light in the corner.

But it looks cool. Yeah. Well, it's had a limited edition. It's called a flux to it's supposed to be kind of like a K2 meter.

You know, light green light the red one up. And since- The tech you have out for something. Yeah. And I figure since my ghost meter pro is kind of acting like crap, maybe I'll use this.

But there's a black one and then there's a limited edition pumpkin orange one, which glows under black light. So you know, I had to get that one. Smells like pumpkin spice. Cool.

For the jump drawer. I did not know this, but I ran across the mission. I'm a cat. This is interesting.

You know, most people think that cats are just kind of, you know, egotistical, stuck up. You know, they don't do much about eating sleep. But apparently they do some cool things. According to this little thing that I ran across on a Facebook page called Witches and Old Souls, it says that cats have the power every day to remove negative energy that's accumulated in our body.

And so the idea is when we fall asleep, they absorb that negative energy. If there's more than one person in the family and only one cat, it can get some excessive amounts of this negative energy. They just absorb all of this negative energy. And then when they sleep, the cat's body releases the energy, takes it away from us.

But if we're too stressed or there's too many of us, it can't get rid of it all. And so it turns that energy into fat. So if you're catch really fat, it's not the food you're feeding it. You just got too much stress.

So you need to get another cat so they can kind of... Disappate the stress together? Yeah, so they don't get quite so fat. They also protect us during the night.

They keep unwanted spirits from entering our house or our room while we sleep. That's why they like to sleep in your bed. If they think we're fine and everything seems cool, you know, they'll go sleep somewhere else. If there's something strange around us, they'll jump into the bed and protect you.

So that's kind of why they do that. If you don't have a cat and the stray cat comes into your house and adopts it or like your yard, then you need a cat at that particular time. If that particular cat just volunteered to help you, they're like, hey, they're taking you to the human, they need help. They've got creepy spirits.

So you should thank that cat for hanging out in your yard. If you have other cats and can't keep the stray cat, you should find a place for him because that cat came for a reason, you know, unknown to us and you need to take care of it. But also says in dreams, you can see the reason for the appearance of that cat at that moment. Says there may be a debt, some karma he has to pay, so don't freak out or frighten the cat.

Cats can heal us. That was interesting. All about cats. So what does it mean when the cat gets up, you're sleeping in the middle of the night and it puts its face right in the middle of your face?

It means that once you pet it, our cat does it every once in a while, it's super annoying. It doesn't want to be loved until like three in the morning. It's like, why can't you be lovely at like five, 24 in the afternoon? Maybe it's because there's spirits hanging around us.

Could be. Stop all that negative energy. All right, stay spooky my Honti friends. Have a good night.

Love you, necklace. See you next time. Have a nice night. Bye.

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