David Curran: "ESG Is A Moving Target Even For The Best Companies"

Intro.(1:21) - Start of interview(2:07) - David's "origin story."(3:42) - His take on lawyers pursuing "non-traditional" careers. "I think that ESG as a career path is going to explode. This is only the beginning."(5:04) - Paul Weiss' Sustainability & ESG Advisory Practice Group.(9:02) -  How did "ESG" become a core topic of corporate governance? "There has been tremendous pressure on organizations to perform better, to be better corporate citizens." "It coalesced gravitationally in large part because of social media." "The investment community needed an organizing force."(16:22) - His take on the "purpose of the corporation" debate (shareholder capitalism vs stakeholder capitalism). "Companies are being held to account for their promises and obligations." "You can't make empty statements anymore." "The pressure shift is severe from a reputational risk." "I don't know of a non-financial consequence at a corporation, everything has a financial consequence." "We need to bring the legal community up to speed to where the business community is." "I call this phenomenon the Super Law: How ethical obligations can shape business and your practice."(22:28) - His take on board diversity. "It's the best example of Super Law." "The genie is out of the bottle on this issue." Nasdaq diversity proposal to the SEC. "One of the dirty little secrets of ESG is that the numbers are not audited, for the most part." "This will be the decade of reckoning... companies will be re-reporting."(30:08) - His take on the roundtables that he's led for the past 20 years (started when he was at Thomson Reuters, FiscalNote, etc). The idea is to convene cross-functional people to talk off-the-record about issues in a real way (private settings). In ESG, every company according to the FT can both a sinner and a saint.(37:13) - His take on the Biden's Administration approach to ESG. Re-signed to Paris Accord (climate change is key) and will deal with a lot of the "S" in the ESG. The EU and UK regulators have been active, and have been regulating US companies. He counsels clients that they have to own ESG programs (consistent policies and procedures).(42:39) - His parting thoughts for directors on ESG matters: 1) Education (learn non-legal components of ESG), 2) They can't rely on D&O insurance in this era. Board members are working really hard now. They can't just rely on management on these matters.(46:55) - His favorite books:Snow Falling on Cedars, by David Guterson (1995)Wherever You Go, There You Are, by Jon Kabat-Zinn (1994)Any book by Robert Caro ("a master at understanding power")(49:02) - His mentors:Brad Karp (Chairman of Paul Weiss) "a true beacon of the legal profession""I take the good and leave the rest from anybody I know" "I've learned some the best things in my life from some of the worst people that I've encountered."(51:22) - His favorite quotes:"You can't plan for the future until you predict the present" (everybody wants to move forward, very few people want to do the hard work of self-evaluation -- where you are now relative where you should be)"That's arrogance without portfolio" (in reference to arrogant people!)(53:21) - His "unusual habit": "open to everything and attached to nothing."  You should be open to experiences that you don't think will help you. Example: he's a professional chocolate taster.(55:09) - Which living person does he most admire: As a group, healthcare and essential workers.David Curran is Chief Sustainability and Environmental, Social and Governance (ESG) Officer at Paul, Weiss. In this role, Dave has dual responsibilities – to work with the firm’s lawyers to lead its Sustainability and ESG Advisory Practice Group, and also to develop and promote the firm’s internal ESG practices.Dave is a recognized leader in helping complex organizations build resilience. In addition to his work in the ESG space, he has more than 30 years of experience in legal, technology, compliance, risk and ethics roles. Dave has led many popular Thought Leadership conversations with senior executives on a variety of topics where business and technology intersect with the legal, compliance and risk ecosystems, including Transforming Law, Big Data, #MeToo and many others.Dave serves as co-chair of the New York State Bar Association’s ESG Committee, which aims to educate and engage New York lawyers, law students and faculty on ESG practices and developments through thought leadership and robust educational programs.If you like this show, please consider subscribing, leaving a review or sharing this podcast on social media. __Follow Evan on:Twitter @evanepsteinSubstack https://evanepstein.substack.com/Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License You can follow Evan on social media at:X: @evanepsteinLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/__To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/__Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License