David Sedaris Returns

Welcome welcome welcome i'm dann rando shepherd and i'm joined by monica lily pattin you change it you said welcome welcome you didn't say to armchair expert. Oh my mom upside down over here on the other side of the park wow scary. I mean one second update so is everyone knows we're becoming increasingly insecure about the time the tagline of the show. Messiness being human is being human and then someone sent me a photo that is the new normal bill board looks like it's in Manhattan it says as big as it can get the messiness of being human that's right.

Now it's like it's coming back to haunt us well knows thinking like we can change it to be in on it was like we got to really be a fan of the show in our fucking description we're making a joke yeah anyways tb d i know that gets ironed out man this is in our pantheon favorite guest is there us we're so excited he's back and he does it again we're just fucking smitten from soup to nuts. He has a new book out a carnival of snackery and it's cool because it's his journal entries is so fun to get his head yes the way he processes the simplest interactions and he seems to have the craziest experiences all the time yes yes he does a lot of late night walking in he meets all kinds characters he's wonderful so please enjoy David Sedaris. Oh righty can you hear me i can hear you can you hear me dutch oh yes i am so excited to talk to you can we give our previous conversation a score out of 10 i want to know from you what you think it was. Listen to it no this is just your memory of the experience i've lied me remember you didn't have a bathroom door yes that's correct i didn't need one i just p in your studio yeah so i didn't need one but just mainly what i'm about it was a experience i told you a very long story about shooting my pants at home depot you like the i was born my heart.

You're in your pants like three times or something hundreds of times but yes that was the last straw and thinking i had i b s which it turned out i didn't have i b s i just was allergic to Pellegrino that was kind of the punch line of the story but. I had convinced myself i had actual i b s and then i needed to go on a strict diet and i was learning how to eat like that and then i figured it out. So i'm gonna tell you so many people i went on tour afterwards came up because they heard me on your podcast and they weren't familiar with me at all before. Oh really a startling number of people.

Oh no kidding yeah well i hope you found what we have found which is we do live shows and i don't understand it i didn't think there were that many nice people period i guess what kind of people are attracted to your readings could you sum them up could you make any stereotype about them. When i think about what they have in common i think it's a level of education i feel like i went to college right sometimes some people comment is like i'm a long haul trucker and i listen to your audio books and nothing feels better than that. I feel like they run the gamut in terms of ages racially like if i have two thousand people in the audience. Forty are black okay so really quick that's four out of two hundred that's two out of one hundred two percent that's pretty good to present maybe 3% from India.

Really a really high percent of ABC's what are you be sees American born Chinese. Oh my god yeah i just learned that a guy taught me that named rich Jew he's an ABC named rich Jew and i said oh come on and he showed his idea that was his name rich i mean it's rich or Jew but he shortened it to rich and how is he spelling Jew. J.E.W. J.E.W.

just as we would think of yeah the very conventional way to spell it oh wow what line of work is he in. I don't remember but he had a business card he was a professional yes clearly i also have Bobby pins business card. Bobby pins P.I.N.S. P.I.N.

Oh P.I.N. Bobby yeah Bobby pin yeah did that person change their name to that you think no i mean i'm sure it was Robert pin and then he's probably called Bobby as a boy and they just kept it. Well that's a that's a generous kind of. Gestimation of what happened.

That all just kind of happened organically there's nobody at the top kind of fucking with this young child like boy named sue the Johnny cash song it sounds a little bit more like that. Well my sister Gretchen gets her furnace service by Mike can't no Mike hunt. And he calls and said this market we are set up a time to come by looking at furnace that's a very well worn name to call and ask the grocery store manager to pay somebody right. I mean if I were him I'd say Michael's on and then nobody would even think my content if you were gay he'd be Michael.

Right right right right right right right right if you were gay there's like there's not a gay Chris they're all Christopher there's not a gay like my friend David Rakoff said when people would say God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. And Rakoff said no that would be Adam and Steven. You know like when you're gay usually. Sure you go for the whole thing the whole marker.

Why do we think that is. Do we even think about it or we just observe it. Are you interested in the causality. Oh gosh no it's a really good question now.

I don't know why that would be. I mean even you to some degree I guess David Sedaris you're not going to go like Dave Sedaris. No Dave's a whole different creature. It is but ding ding ding this is one of the things I actually wanted to ask you about.

Do you watch the TV show Dave. No I'm going to really strongly encourage you to check it out. It's on FX. I'm just newly watching it.

God I wish you would see because I wanted to talk to you about a certain episode that really I can't stop thinking about. Can I just sum it up for you. Sure. OK so the character of the lead character Dave is this rapper Lil Dickie he's Jewish and in real life he really is the rapper Lil Dickie and he wraps about he's had a ton of trauma on his penis.

A bunch of surgeries apparently some of the testicle skin had to be used to graph onto the penis so the penis has a ton of ballskin on it. So that's kind of like the foundation of his insecurities but then he embraces it and he has he's an artist because of it. So great great show can't recommend it enough but there's this episode I saw that I can't get over was. He starts working with this other producer music producer who in real life is a very successful music producer.

So he goes over to start recording and they're they're recording and then they take a break and then they start calling each other Chuck for some reason like Chuck. Chuck you guys on your shirt. Oh no Chuck that's this Chuck let's go swimming Chuck and now they're calling each other Chuck they go swimming and then they're wrestling and then they're looking at each other's assholes and then one guy puts gum in the other ones asshole to see if he can blow a bubble and at one point like they're leaning into each other and Dave is like no still not attracted still not attracted and then he kisses them. No I'm not attracted then a wrestling naked and then it escalates to them in the shower and he places his testicles and it's real he places his testicles and his perineum on the other guys forehead and he's in the shower but they're just laughing and having a great time and Dave wasn't gay in this situation.

It was the first time I had seen two guys that were more provocative than myself in that arena like I would snuggle my friends. I've kissed plenty of my male friends on the lips but this was a whole nother zone and I feel like is part of younger people that I was just so excited to I guess witness and I'm curious if this is increasingly commonplace. What do you think of that? I'll watch it.

You're really gonna like it. Hi David. It's all late. But don't worry.

I don't like being late but I'm late a lot these days. Are you a punctual person by nature? Yeah I tried to be. I mean usually I am.

But yesterday I was in the dentist and then I had an appointment with a tailor and so I needed a dental appointment to be over with. But the dental assistant, I don't know if this has happened to you recently, they make up like a 3D model of your mouth and they stick something in your mouth that's too big for your mouth. Yeah to take the expertise. It's like it's a big dildo.

I mean it's just too big and they stick it in your mouth and I didn't realize that this was turning into a teaching moment. That one of the assistants was showing another one how to do it. I had an appointment and I didn't want to be a dick about it. But I'm like how about you just show her how to do this on somebody else because I got to get out of here.

But of course I wasn't going to say that. But yeah. But I didn't want to be late. I thought when you said teaching moment, I thought it was a teaching moment for you which would have been really interesting.

Like yeah what I like your mouth needs to be bigger or this usually fits. Well I don't know what's wrong with your mouth. It's just weird to have something in your mouth like that. I was just at the dentist last week and had that exact same experience.

It's very uncomfortable. But you know like sometimes you're in a situation and you think okay this is like primitive technology. We're going to laugh at this a year from now or two years from now. We're going to think oh that was so primitive.

It's just going to be a slender wand in no at all. And so that was one of those moments and you thought okay the time for this is pretty short lived. You don't have such a massive thing in your mouth. Well I was like yeah I mean that's a nice way of looking at it.

I look at it like we're not here yet. We're not here where they can just not have this enormous thing in my mouth. We already have so many other technology that are bad for us. So why not we have this one already?

Well are you guys talking specifically because I know the thing where you have to but make your bite down and then it's like it's very sharp on the edges on your cheeks and the inside of your cheeks. That's for x-rays. That's for x-rays. Yeah and there's like a little plate on the outside and that's cutting your gums.

You guys are right. But that's always felt odd too. The thing where you're biting down and you're right. It's too sharp and it cuts the inside of your mouth.

And it's clearly been designed to include every one of all tooth size. I think is what it is. It's like a catch all. So it's like a four inch.

You're free to have up to a four inch tooth with that technology and still get it all x-rayed. I guess. But I during the pandemic no one hated wearing a mask more than me. You know you had to wear one outside all the time in New York City.

But then there was a freedom to it and I realized my teeth were so bad. My sister Amy said it looked like I swallowed a bomb and time throws a nanosecond after it went out. So it looked like they just started to explode out of my mouth and then it froze. So they were like really wide spaces in my upper teeth and they stuck out kind of like a donkey's.

And I learned the mask. I thought, oh I'm not being judged on my teeth now. Right. Especially when you go into a fancy hotel or a fancy shop.

And when you ask about something they look at you and I know they do it and they think if you really had money you'd spend a little bit of it in the dentist's office. And I know that's what they're thinking and I can feel it. So I went I got braces during the pandemic. I got ready.

Yeah. What a great time to do it. Yeah. Because I didn't have any doors and I was wearing a mask.

So I got braces and then they had to push teeth around because I was missing one. And so I was missing a top two that I just never got it. It said the braces pushed my teeth apart and they popped a fake tooth in there. So yesterday was my last appointment.

Oh wait a minute. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god.

I haven't been able to look at my teeth in the mirror in like 40 years because I was a genuine phobia. I couldn't do it. Yeah. So now I can.

But I don't know how to smile because I never in the mirror. I never did it. And so this is my smile. It's really good.

It's so great to show you what it looks like to me. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty good.

Yeah. It's awful. It's so creepy. And there's a hint too of like is he angry and then you're like, oh no, it's kindness.

It's mixed messaged. It's so big. We love mixed messages. And I still go like that when I talk to people and I think, wait a minute.

I don't have to do that. Yeah. Was it free or for real? Were you like looking in the mirror and you're like, oh, it didn't really change much.

Like in your head. It made such a huge difference in terms of my confidence. Yeah. Yeah.

That's great. All I wanted was for somebody to say if someone said to you what was needed like you'd say, I don't know. That's all I wanted. Unremarkable.

I didn't want like blinding teeth. I was fine with like chips and stuff like that. Tis coloration. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, can I theorize about what happened? First of all, I can relate to you because what you see in front of you is the product of 14 years of orthodontia. I started in first grade and didn't get them done until 11th grade.

So I love this bomb analogy. But mine was that I always say that is if God just chucked my fucking teeth at my face and I was smiling and they just kind of landed. They were pointing every which way and tons of gaps and a huge overbite. And thank God, my mom just kind of intervened.

But I'm wondering if your teeth. Did you look at your teeth in the mirror when you were young and you did the same thing you did to everything which is like fuck, it's just not what I want and tough shit and I'm going to get over it and stop thinking about it. And I'm never going to think about it again. No, I had braces, but I did wear my retainer.

Oh, okay. My sister Lisa used hers as an ashtray. Okay. And this didn't happen to her.

I've always had like quicksand gums like I can fall asleep on my face and I wake up in my bites different. Okay. So you just needed an afternoon to get everything sorted out. How long were you in them?

14 weeks. Oh my god. There's nothing. These invisible braces.

Oh, there's a lot. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Okay.

So I started reading Carnival of Snackery yesterday, your new book and it's weird to interview you because I want your approval more than I want anyone to learn anything about you. That's kind of my priority on these and these interviews with you. Normally, I really want people to learn about the guest, but with you, I just want you to like me and for us to somehow become friends at some point. I just want to own my intentions.

So I read one of your stories and I thought, oh my god, this is fantastic because we've had a very similar experience once again. So are you open to telling us about something? So just really quickly, Carnival of Snackery is your journal entries, kind of a compilation of your journal entries. And they're not what you would think like, oh, I'm wrestling with this or there are things that just happened you observed.

You were a part of a lot of it's about just watching TV, which I love. But can you tell me about going to the museum and the young boy you were worried about? Oh, I was at the British Museum and there was a group of like five or six people at the next table and it was a young boy in a wheelchair. And I don't know.

I remember now how old he was. Maybe he was like 13 or something and I just felt so sorry for him because I don't know. It just got a sock to be in a wheelchair. And then I was imagining his life and thinking, oh, he probably didn't have too many friends because you'd have to have a ramp to have friends like that.

Like I often say to people, do you have any paralyzed friends? And they say no and I say do you have a ramp in front of your house and they say no. And I said, well, then you're not going to have any. You put a ramp up and you'd be surprised.

Your address book's going to be full of paralyzed friends. They just can't get to you right now. So I saw this kid and I was feeling so sorry for him and then his mother wheeled him away from the table and I saw that it was a rental chair and he had a cast on his foot. I don't want to say fuck you for making me feel sorry for you.

But it wasn't him. It was just me thinking that. Do you know how that is when you miss spend your sympathy? Absolutely.

I think that yeah, the last line you say is like you resentful that he made you pity him. Okay. So my net similar that I want to tell you is I was in Nashville and I was eating at one of these hot chicken restaurants that I love and I would go to quite often and I had prior to this never met the owner or anything. And there's a huge deck in front of place and then there's inside eating.

So I'm outside on the deck with a friend and a man comes out and he's older. He's probably like 67 or so and he goes, excuse me. Are you decks? And I go, yeah, yeah.

Hey, you think I could get you to come on inside and say hello. There's a little cripple girl inside and she's a big fan of yours. And I just thought maybe if you come and get a picture with her, boy, that might mean the world to her being crippled. No.

So if you're up for that and I said, oh, yeah, absolutely. All right, great. So he goes inside and now I'm on my own to go in and take a picture with this girl. And of course, he's used to work cripple twice, which I was like, I don't think you can really say that word out loud at your own restaurant, whatever.

I go inside and I find her similarly. She's at like a table. So then I stand behind her and I'm like touching her very sincerely and her parents are taking a photo. And then I kind of glance down to see what it is.

And same thing. She has a broken leg with a cast. And I was like, she has a fracture. And I've gone in there like it's kind of like a make a wish situation.

Yeah. And then I, yeah. And of course, I couldn't be resentful at her. She didn't describe herself as cripple.

It was the owner of this chicken restaurant. But yeah, kind of similar mix up. But don't you think part of it? You were bummed because you subconsciously thought like it was giving yourself a little more importance than it was like, I had the ability to change this whole this person's life is dying.

And really it was just like a normal fan. Yeah. And by the way, I'm not even sure she was a fan as much as maybe her parents knew who I was. Maybe the owner wanted the picture for the restaurant.

Yes, if I was decks, he was here mining for the first time inside and on the way out. He kind of garbled it and made a deck, which was fine. They want to correct them. But anyways, I'm glad that we both had that kind of.

Sometimes I feel the same like I'll do a book signing after an event and people with wheelchairs will come to the front of the line and it's like, you have a seat. You know, I mean, these other people are going to be standing in line for five, six, seven hours. There's no reason why you should come to the front of the front of the line. Oh my God.

Oh my God. It's true. I know what you're saying is really, really. It is true, but it's atomically correct.

They are sitting. Oh my God. I mean, if you have somebody on a cane, somebody who has a front of the line. Yeah, I agree.

If you're in a cane or a walker or you're right, right? It's right. That's nice. How would you feel?

This is what if someone's really extremely overweight? Like it's clearly a really struggle to stand. That's happened before and I brought them to the front of the line. But it's a little bit tricky because they say, why don't you bring me to the front?

Then you feel like this happened before and I said, oh my God. I don't know. I just you're wearing blue and today it's no, you come up with some shit. But that's what you're thinking because I have a friend who's oh gosh, she was probably 500 pounds and she came to visit me one time.

I was on tour. I had to go to the Apple Store and so I said, let's just go to the Apple Store. And it was only like eight blocks away. And I didn't realize she said something later and it's like you can't really walk eight blocks when you weigh 500 pounds.

It just made me think things in a different way. But yeah, it's hard. So if I see like a super obese person, yeah, I try to find a way to bring the phone. Yeah.

Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. I'm trying to like come up with a theory on why you're allowed to be funny in the manner you are. And I think there's a bunch of explanations. I'm curious if you even think about it.

And if you do, which one do you agree with or disagree with? I think one is I think first and foremost, you're just brilliant. So I think when you're brilliant, you get away with murder. Like Larry David, I don't know if you saw that episode.

We're gonna have a MAGA hat. He started wearing the MAGA hat everywhere in LA to get some privacy and stuff. The whole way I was like, he's the only guy in Hollywood that could have done it. It was so perfect.

And I just fucking loved it. So one explanation, just you're so brilliant that even if you're probably trying to read it to get offended, you're probably chuckling along the way and then you maybe give up. That's maybe one thought. And then I guess the fact that yeah, you're not like a power forward in the NBA and you're like super dominant physically or something.

I'm just wondering what if you have any theories on why you're able to speak so blatantly about things. Well, you just have a great sense of humor that is almost a little bit throwbacky. I've had people come up before and say, I can't believe the things you get away with saying on stage. And I always say, what did I say?

Like, I went to a warehouse in Indiana to sign 15,000 books. Oh my God. And this was not even Indianapolis. It was in the middle of nowhere in Indiana.

And so there were like four people helping me out. And they told me, one of them told me that she'd gotten written up recently for saying to somebody, Brenda, it's not rocket science. Because see, that made Brenda feel stupid. So she got written up for it.

And this is at a factory in Indiana. So, when they told me all the things they're not allowed to say, I thought, okay, well, compared to you, I am. I mean, my British publisher told me they're no longer allowed to say in the office, may I have a word with you? Because it's triggering to people and they make some thing, they're getting fired.

Oh, you can't say, I have a word with you. I suggest that instead they say, you know what, you're fucking fired. I have a real job. So it's never really been.

I give you more specific, like, I'll be reading like I was reading it this morning. And I'll see. Well, I love the one where a homeless person calls you ugly. I think that's just a tremendous story in so many ways.

But you're describing things as fat or ugly. I guess I just, when I read it, I'm like, I'm surprised he doesn't get any shit. And then so one of my other theories is just like, almost your point about who comes to your book signings, which is they're probably largely the number one unifiers, they're probably college educated. So is it just that like, not only people that are even aware of it are in on it.

So it's not a thing. The wrong people that are like scanning the universe for that stuff aren't even stumbling across your work. That makes sense. Like the moral police or the social police.

Well, yeah, I've been doing these commentaries on CBS Sunday morning. Right. It could be about whatever I want for two minutes. And so I did one on egregious customer service.

And I started off by 10 years ago, right? My sister Amy and I went to this place in London. And we bought these delicate cups and saucers, right? And it cost like $700.

So the woman takes Amy's credit card and she puts it in and says, well, your card was rejected. And we said, well, maybe if you put it in the other way, right, you put the card backwards. And then the card works. And then she says, like, OK, then there you go.

And we said, what do you mean? She said, well, I don't have anything to wrap them in. And I don't have any bags or anything. And I said, so we're supposed to bring them across town like this.

And she said, well, they're yours. You bought them. So I had a fantasy for something I call the citizens, this missile. And in a situation like that, you say to the person, did you bring a purse with you to work today?

Or do you have a jacket or anything? Good. Good. I want you to get both of them and then get the fuck out of here.

You're fine. So it was a couple of instances of the egregious customer service from 10 years ago, right? Right. And then somebody tweeted David said, he's trying to fire essential workers during the pandemic.

My publicist, my publicist called me and said, I think you should know that this is happening. So I don't have Twitter or anything, but it was like thousands of people. It was like a mob after me. OK, CBS put a transcript on that website, but two pages, that's too much to read, right?

Of course. It was all these people. But then I have a friend in the media and he said afterwards, he said, yeah, he said, that was pretty bad. Did you apologize?

And I said, I don't have anything to apologize for. And he said, well, if people perceived that you did that, you need to apply. And I said, like, what do I say? I'm sorry, you're stupid.

Like, how do I? Yeah, apologize. I said, anyway, it was just surprising to me. See, I could be canceled.

I wouldn't even know it because I don't have social media. Yeah, you're right. I think about that all the time. Like, I guess I'm only aware of any of these outrage movements through social media.

I don't actually see it on the news or anything for the most art. No, my audience would know it either. No, I didn't know that. I had no clue.

If somebody came to me and said pictures just surfaced of Dax Shepard wearing, like a Cherokee funeral headdress with a Nazi uniform, I don't know. I would still talk to you. I wouldn't. Right.

I would just think that's a weird combination. I wrote this thing about LGBTQQIA, right? One of those Q stands for questioning. And I was like, when you make up your mind, you can have a letter.

But until that, I mean, I think it's a circle. And somebody left the theater saying, you know, if I were gay, I would have been really offended by that. It's like, well, you're not gay. So why are you even thinking about that?

Like, I don't know. I'm just not offended by stuff. I'm not like, if I see a comedian, like an old school comedian, like doing a mincing kind of a gay impersonate, that doesn't offend me. I don't know what it is.

I just don't care. Can you think of what does offend you? Yeah, I'm offended by animals in sunglasses. OK, OK, sure.

On a photograph or in a cartoon, they put sunglasses on. It's supposed to appeal to kids, right? The kids are supposed to think that's cool. And my objection isn't that then some five year old is going to go put a pair of maybe eight or sunglasses on a Boston Terrier.

I don't care about that. I just object to teaching kids that that's cool. Because it's so lame. It's the same thing as when they go to kids high five.

That's just old and it's just it's embarrassing. So I'm offended by that. Have you ever felt guilty about anything you've said on stage or regretful of any of the things you've put in a book? I mean, there's an essay I regret because it hurts somebody's feelings.

But gee, I can't really think of anything. Yeah. I mean, now with a book, they have sensitivity readers. All right, so a sensitivity reader reads your book and then says, well, you need to get rid of this and this and this.

But you have to at this point anyway, you have to request the sensitivity read. So I've never requested one. OK, OK. I could request one.

My editor was telling me about somebody and she was a writer and she'd written an essay about going to India, right? So she said, can I have a sensitivity read on this? Because I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. So an older Indian woman read it and said, oh, I think this is fascinating.

And I absolutely love this. And then Indian American woman like in her 20s was offended by every single line of it. So I think that's relevant. That seems pretty normal, I think, that it's the younger people who are going to be more offended by something than older people.

And I don't know if it's just that our skins are thicker. Well, I think what you were allowed to say is I want a lot of these documentaries and it'll show a lot of footage from the 90s of basically light night talk show monologues, be it like the Monica Lewinsky scandal or when Britney Spears was in trouble. And what they would say just 25 short years ago is be like, oh, she's a slut. Does he like the big slaughters?

He liked the smart girl. And when I watched, I go, oh, I almost didn't even know that was the water I grew up in, where that is what everyone said on late night talk shows and they don't anymore. And so, yeah, I mean, first and foremost, we grew up in a much different era where people said pretty actually offensive things regularly on TV. So maybe our barometer is just different for that.

Yeah, no, I agree with you on that. I mean, sometimes people write me letters, angry letters and sometimes you know, you want to write back and whether someone can hear you. Yeah, yeah, like I was signing books, right? And this guy came up and said, I was with some friends last night.

We were in a bar and all of us were having a good time and telling jokes. And I said, what do you do if an epileptic has a fit in your bathtub? Throw in your laundry. And then this guy behind me said, Hey, my brother was an epileptic and he died in the bathtub.

Oh my God. And the guy was like, fuck, he said, did he drown? And the guy said, no, it chucked on a sock. So it was a joke that somebody snuck in, right?

I love that kind of joke. So then somebody wrote me a letter and they're very offended and they said, I'm a person with epilepsy and I have to take all this medication. And so I wrote back and said that to me, that's a joke about a joke being slipped in. Right.

That's what that's about. It's not about epilepsy. Like a woman came up and said, my father just died. And a neighbor said, if you don't mind, I'd like to say a word at his funeral.

So they never got up and said, plethora. And so I said to the neighbor, thank you so much. That means a lot. So again, it's just a joke that you can sneak in.

Instead of saying to somebody, I got a joke for you. Or how about a joke? So I broke up the frozen with epilepsy and I wouldn't not tell that joke again, because I'm pretty sure I'm right about it. Well, Monica has epilepsy and she just laughed really hard.

I guess the thing that I get kind of bummed about this happened like a couple of weeks ago, Monica and I were talking about some subject on the show and I'm very perverted. I always am always talking about penises and testicles and stuff. And so this gal wrote in the thing, you know, you're going too far with Monica. She's very uncomfortable and she clearly doesn't want to tell you.

And just because you've been friends for a long time, please listen to your female audience on this topic. Oh, wow. So of course I'm like immediately kind of angry. I'm defensive of all these things.

And then I basically just write like, I think you would feel that way if I were saying those things in front of you and I would understand, but you should probably ask Monica before you tell me how Monica feels. And I think that is so often the case. It's like you're kind of apologizing to advocates and not the person who is theoretically upset by it. That's when it to me gets a little like, come on guys, if someone tells me that really I was talking to that they were uncomfortable, of course I would change my delivery for them.

But you telling me how Monica felt in a situation I'm probably not getting on board with. But see, one thing you're not allowed to say to people anymore is like on a scale of one to 10, how uncomfortable were you? I mean, let's put it on that scale. But now you're not allowed to ask people that anymore, right?

Because all the matters is that they were made to feel unsafe or that they were insulted or that they were offended and you're not allowed to say how effective because like when my needle is between nine and 10, I might say something about it. But if it's hovering between one and two, I'm not going to say a thing. I'm going to forget about it. Do you think you and I could agree right now on what a 10 is?

Like I'd like to submit as a 10 is like you're Kerry. They tricked you into thinking you were the prom queen and then they dumped pigs blood all over you in front of the entire school. Like that's a 10. So where is this diabetes joke on that scale?

Right. I guess it's also just you have to know like the woman who is offended by the epilepsy joke. I wish she would have some self-awareness that what's happening is she's triggered, I guess, by her own connection to that disease. But she's not really triggered by the joke.

It's just she's bummed out that that's something in her world and it shouldn't be then transferred onto whether it can't be jokes about it or there can't be this. Like I don't know. I think people don't do enough like self reflection as to what's really happening in that moment when they're offended. Oh, well, sometimes it's just a word that's used and then people think it's a joke about trans people and it's like, no, it's actually not.

You just heard the word trans and you went full alert and you stopped and you didn't listen to the rest of the joke or the rest of the story. That happens quite often. I was in England. Why does it got back?

We have this woman who helps out in the garden. Sometimes she helps my boyfriend out in the garden. And anyway, so I walked into the kitchen and she was saying to you, she's saying, so anyway, this guy didn't look gay and he didn't sound gay. So we were all shocked when we found out that he was.

And so that was my moment to say, oh, then what is a gay person look like or sound like? But she meant well, and even though she would have been the first, I mean, she has scolded me before over a similar thing, but I didn't want to be like her. And so I didn't say anything because I don't want to be that person because again, that was like maybe a two on the scale. Similarly, we were in England and we had these friends coming for Christmas.

And so we hired a car to go meet our friends at the airport, right? And so we said to the dispatcher, we said they're two men and he said, are they flamboyant? Oh, I guess I could have said, oh, right, because all gay men are flamboyant. But instead I just laughed.

It was like he handed me a little present. I mean, it's such a good little story to tell and I have no problem with what he's saying. So that's a wonder to you and I'm glad it is. But I guess there's a scenario where you're still living in a very small town and you're not getting gainful employment because people are homophobic.

And then maybe that sentence is more impactful to you. Yeah, that's why I moved. So you can stay in this small town and you can feel all those feelings or you can fucking move to a better place behind you. Have your own show on Sunday mornings.

Yeah. Where are you at currently? Because we're going to England in a couple of weeks or like three weeks. You know, before I went to England, everyone, right?

Everybody like even the door made in my building were like, England, that's not safe at all. You know, you can't be going to England. I didn't see that at all. The only thing there is a guy had to take a COVID test to fly to England and in New York, there are trucks parked on the street and it was free.

I went, there was no line. It was free in England. It's kind of screwy how much it costs to get a COVID test. Like I paid 125 pounds for one that would give me my results in 24 hours.

Oh, wow. Yeah, it's like what? Like 200 bucks. Yeah.

And then it changes the rules change pretty quickly. But you know what one that was really nice about being there, like on the subway, you're supposed to wear a mask and probably on the subway, I don't know, half people, half the people had masks on. But the other half weren't like, yeah, what are you going to do about it? Yeah, I'm going to do about it.

So there was none of that confrontational. It was more like, oh, I can't do it anymore or I left my mask at home, but it wasn't. I'm a patriot. Yeah, it just felt all of that stuff felt easier to me there.

A mask wasn't a campaign button. Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. Do you think you will write a book about quarantine? Because I kind of want your point of view on the whole experience.

Because I know mine. I've heard a lot of people's I have to imagine you have some kind of novel take on that whole experience. I'm in road and essay about it. I'm going to start a tour tomorrow and go 70 cities.

And well, the first show was supposed to be Wednesday and that got canceled. So I mean, it's pretty late in the day to cancel tomorrow, but that doesn't mean they can't cancel it. But so I had this story, an essay that I wrote about COVID. And I'm curious to see because maybe people will be like, you know what, this is the first event we've gone to since I did we have to sit here and listen to this.

So I don't know, I'm not sure how it will work. One thing I thought was interesting during COVID is like in the New York Times, they have her list eight section and a seal award, the actress, she was selling her loft and so how and it was like, when that big, it was like 1200 square feet or something. And there was an interview with her and she said, I kind of did the different spaces so I could create and eliminate spaces. But it's too small for when we have company because it wound up being only one bedroom.

I was fascinated by the one downsmanship that happened during the pandemic, right? And then people like, oh, how nice that 1200 square feet is too small for you. See the world while there are a ton of families living in a studio apartment. You can't even like if I wrote an essay, I woke up and washed my face.

Oh, how nice. I sold my face. And now when I eat all the food falls out on her lap, because I don't have cheeks to hold it in anymore. You couldn't say anything.

Like, Ellen Jadonra started doing her show from home. People were like, she lives in her mansion. It's like, yeah, with money, you gave her. They're right.

How are you surprised that that's her home? And then when she made that joke, she said, oh, I feel like this is like prison. I'm wearing the same clothes every day and everyone in here is gay. How dare she?

I mean, I'm sorry. That's just funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like in England, in England, if you tell somebody where you live, and then there's always some lip.

I mean, oh, that's posh. Like you move there in order to make them feel bad. And it's like, we asked me where I lived. I didn't leave with it.

I'm just answering your question. Right. And there's a real sort of sourness there that you never see in America. I mean, in America, you're not poor.

You're just not rich yet. You know, like people have that mindset that I'm just not rich yet. And the pandemic was the first time I saw that really kind of tarnish, because generally speaking, we celebrate rich people in the United States. Well, it's tricky, though, because it's like how you frame it.

So like people aren't mad at lottery winners, but they're very mad at Paris Hilton. That's a contradiction. But if Paris Hilton was ugly, if she was Christina O'Nacis, then I don't think that people would be mad that she had made money. Oh, that's a good.

It's just jealousy. Right. Stay tuned for more on share expert. If you dare.

For people who have not read, I read your New Yorker essay about the wake of your father. Well, my father, he died and then there were it was just endless. There was a funeral at the Greek church and that service, it was hours long and half of its in Greek and it's exhausting. And then that was in North Carolina.

Then there was a burial in New York state. Oh, wow. And then there was another service at the Greek church. Oh, wow.

So yeah, so it was just no the cliches that you hear when somebody dies, right? Either written or spoken. Like somebody wrote me and said, you know, I know you and your father had your differences, but you need to remember he did the best he could. Fuck you.

No, we didn't. I mean, what's that based on that we all do the best that we can do? How dare you say it? Just why would that even let that shit come out of your mouth?

What would it taste like coming out? Yeah, I would never say that to somebody. Well, he did the best he could. I mean, if that was his best, he was really pathetic.

Well, you're like someone spent their whole life basically beating other people with coat hangers. That wasn't the exact example. But then at the end of that, someone says, well, they did the best they could. Well, then also he'll always be with you.

That was 64 years was enough. I don't need him with me. And I know nobody knows what to say in a situation like that. And I'm guilty of the same thing when people have died, but there's only so much of it you can take.

Yeah. Can I ask how much of this journal that compiles a carnival snackery? I mean, there's things from 2003 all the way up to end of 2020. 20.

Yeah. First, are they actually literally coming right out of the page of your journal? And then two, what's the process like of you going through all that and curating what will be this book? It took a long time because there's only so much you can sit and read your old diary.

My diary is not embarrassing. Like, perhaps because I don't write about my feelings. Right. There wasn't any of that to be embarrassed about.

There were things to be embarrassed about. You wouldn't believe the amount of time I spend writing about shopping. I mean, it's crazy and horrible things can be going on in the world. Mentioned at all.

Yeah. September 11th, 2001 found a great deal on sneakers. I started writing on computer 2000. Even your journal?

Yeah. But I print that out and make a book out of it. At the end of every season. But my deal is that like this morning I wrote in my diary and one week from today, I will revisit what I wrote today and I'll clean it up.

That means if there are three sentences in a row that start with the word he, I'll just clean it up. So my diet, this diary was pretty clean. Oh, sometimes I would put things in like I would say my friend Brian because he reader might think who's Brian or change a name because the editor said, well, people might think you're talking about your sister Amy. So maybe changes Amy's name to something else.

Right. But it's pretty cleanly written. And how much will you write in general each day? Well, today I wrote two pages, but day four yesterday I wrote five pages.

I go out at midnight and walk for five miles. Wait, every night in the city or in the country or wherever you're at. Everywhere. And you walk five miles a night?

Yeah. How long does that take? It wouldn't take like an hour and 45 minutes. Wow.

Who do you go with? I go by myself every now and then I'll go with somebody. Two nights ago, and when you're on the Upper East Side, you can not run into anybody. Yeah.

Yeah. And I've had like three little run ins with people that were like uncomfortable. So a couple nights ago, I'm walking up Park Avenue and I turned right on on the 22nd Street and there's this woman. And she said, I'm just finishing smoking this joint, but I never smelled pot.

She was smoking something. And then she said, hey, baby, you need a date. You want a date? I'm tight.

I got a nice tight pussy. You want some of those tight pussy? And then she was glomming on to me. Right.

She was maybe in her late 20s. She had a T-shirt on that had stains on it. She just got out of somewhere. You know, like J.O.

Or psychiatric hospital. Yeah. And to get away from me, I said, I'm gay. She's not fucking up the ass then.

Oh, yes. She's versatile. Yeah. Nothing would talk about it.

So I went to a building with a doorman and I went knocked on the door and the doorman came and said, what do you want? You together? As I said, no, she said, yes. I said, no, we're not together.

We're not together. I said, she might leave me alone. And she said, he's gay. He's gay.

He's gay. He's not going to need my pussy. I'm a little turned him. I said, fuck you on the ass.

I'll turn you. And the doorman said, you don't know that he's gay. Maybe he's just married. Maybe he's a family man.

And I'm like, oh my, why are we talking about this? You know, like, can't you shoot her? Like. And it was one of those situations.

I took five pages the next day. I did not want to leave anything out of that because it just got crazy, crazy. Like when the doorman got involved and it turned out she had just been there and asked to use a bathroom and then he sent her away. So he thought that I ran into this woman and I thought, you can't treat people like that.

And then I was going to bring her there and say, you have to let her use the bathroom. So that's what he was wearing. It wasn't my building. And she's like, you're afraid of a woman.

You're afraid of a woman. Afraid of a woman. It's like not all women, but you're pretty scary. So you.

I think the best way to have gotten rid of this woman was to say, I don't have any money. Yeah. You're right. Because you can say, I need some dick and it's like, no, that's not what I mean.

Really what you need. No, no. It needs some money and I didn't have any money on me. Plus, where would we go?

Yeah. Can I ask, is there a rural version of this walk you take? Yeah. When I'm in Sussex, I just got back in England and we were mainly in Sussex.

And so I walk five miles a night there and every single night, I see a hedgehog. Oh, you do. Yeah. Some nights I would see four.

Oh my God. Have you ever seen a hedgehog? No. No, they're super cute though, right?

Yeah. When you come up on one, it just, it's only defenses prayer and it says, please don't tell me, please don't tell me. And they just freeze there until you walk away. Oh, it was beautiful.

Well, I want to ask if you because I do a lot of nighttime walking too, not as much now that I've kids because I have to wake up so early, but I love to do it. And part of the reason I love to do it is I start concocting these fantasies. When you're out in the country at night, it's scary. I don't know.

I find it, even if it's not scary, it's easy to let your imagination wander. Like, I'm going to see a big creature or I'm going to, someone's going to pull over and try to kill me. And something about that I really love. I really buy into whatever fantasy I'm concocting.

And I'm getting more and more scared throughout it, which I enjoy. Is anything that happening for you? Yeah, like one night I thought I passed this little path that leads into the woods and I said, what if I looked over there and I saw zombies feasting on a human body? And I was just terrified from that on.

I've picked things up like I've convinced myself so much, I'm going to see a werewolf or something that I'll like I'll find out to by four and I'll start carrying that or I'll pick up a rock. I love it. It reminds me of being like eight and being scared. But generally speaking, it's scarier in New York.

Since I've dated that woman couple of nights ago, I haven't gone out at night. Instead, I go out first thing in the morning and I'll get over it. But I was walking home from my sister's house one night and these two men came around the corner and I was like on some of that and it was something and they kind of heard of me and so they hear stood up on the back. But it turned out one guy was just trying to get away from the other guy.

Right. And so the guy that was left said, are you for power? Are you for peace? And that's like, oh fuck.