Tonight on 360 Live, a report from Perry Iowa, seen in the latest school mass shooting. What authorities are saying about how it unfolded, which included their discovery of a makeshift bomb at the scene. That and what a student says tonight about what she went through. Also tonight, a new batch of unsealed documents that Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking scandal was in them and who, and later House Democrats, say they've got the former president's number and it's in the millions.
What's in their new report of how much foreign government money went into Trump properties and by extension his pockets during the Trump presidency. Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin tonight in Iowa, but not for the reason you'd expect, not for presidential politics. Take a look.
These are pictures tonight from Perry Iowa, Northwest of Des Moines, a vigil, one of two, after a day that began with what is already the country's second school shooting of 2024. The first in Virginia took no lives. This one did. It happened on the campus shared by Perry's middle and high schools.
Police say the shooter was a student at Perry High. Before killing himself, he shot six people, one of whom died, a sixth grader, a child killed by an older child, not for the first time, and never it seems, for the last. Seen in the Veronica Miracles at the scene for us tonight. I know you just got on the scene.
What are you learning? Anderson, just a devastating start to this new year for this community here in Iowa. You can feel the grief even as you come in and see all of the individuals at the vigil tonight, this community mourning the loss of a sixth grader, five other people were injured in the shooting, four students and one faculty member, police say, one of those injured are critically injured, all of them, however, are expected to survive. But this school shooting happened before school began.
And it was right around 730 when students from all ages, students from all grades were gathered for a breakfast club when shots first rang out. We spoke to some students at a vigil who were there at school, including one of them, who was inside the cafeteria. At first, the whole cafeteria went silent. And then more shots continued and everything just wanted to chaos.
I'm Joel Kardonnay. I just saw the principal's ceremony. And all my friends and I just got out of there. When I was on my way to go to school, my friends had more texts that there were gunshots and everybody was running and crying out the school.
Anderson's community is small. The entire school district has only about 1,800 students. So everyone knows everyone, including a woman that CNN spoke to at the vigil who says she knows the victim. She heard about a child in her neighborhood who had been missing.
She went knocking on that family store and learned that their child was the one who was killed. She said this individual was just the sweetest child, one that you would want your kids to be friends with. Police say the gunman died from a self-inflicted gunshot. The 17-year-old was found with a pump-action shotgun and a handgun.
Authorities also say the 17-year-old shooter was posting on social media at the time around the shooting. They also found in another part of the school an improvised explosive device, though authorities did render it safe. As far as the motive, the investigation continues. But the grieving here in this small community has just begun.
Anderson. I appreciate it. Veronica Merkel, earlier tonight spoke with one of the students who managed to get safely away from the gun fire. Her name is Rachel Carris.
She's a senior at Perry High. Rachel, I understand you were in the band room when you heard shots. Can you tell me what happened? Basically, we were finishing up in jazz band, and my band teacher was walking us through one of our last songs.
And then he was talking to us about it. And then right when he was about to finish, we heard four gunshots down the hall from us. We didn't know which way, though. Were they very loud?
We all just, yeah. Like, at first, I thought I was like a chip bag, but I was like, that's way too loud. And then the smell started to linger. And I don't even know how to describe it.
Just not like burning. It just, yeah. And then when there was another shot that was let out, like really soon after that, our band teacher looked at us and he just goes, run. And like none of us hesitated.
We just all got up and ran. At that point, you realized it was shooting. We didn't know what it was. We just wanted to get out.
Because it was so loud. Which way did you run? So our auditorium is actually hooked up to the high school, which you would have to have a hallway for that. And the hallway that we have for that leads to the outside.
And that's the hallway that we took. When you ran, what did you then? I mean, did you stay in the school grounds? And you just, where did you go?
Anywhere away from school. We just kept going. And thankfully for that, we have our armory and our rec center and elementary fairly close. At least walking distance from the school.
So a bunch of kids went to one of those places. And I understand you called your mom in all the chaos. What did you say to her? I basically said that there were gunshots, or I think there were gunshots.
But I'm OK. I'm out of the school. And I was with, and I named off some of my other friends that I was with. And then she just was like, what?
She was freaking out. Probably more than I was. And then she was like, you need to get home now. I was like, well, my kids are in the school.
I can't really go back there. And she was like, yeah, don't do that. And I was like, not really planning to. But then my sister ended up rushing over to me and finding me.
Do you know any of the people who were injured? I know about one of the staff members, yeah. Looking back now, I mean, what's it? How do you feel?
To have gone through this is, I mean, it's obviously terrifying. It doesn't feel real. Like, this is like one of those things where you see on TV. And you're like, that's never going to linger.
It's way towards my community. But it does happen. And it's really real. Had you ever thought that this could happen in your school?
No. Like, we used to have, we had one series of bomb threats when I was in middle school. But that was taken care of like really early on. And nothing happened.
Well, Rachel, I'm so glad that you were OK in your friends. And I wish you the best. Thank you. Thank you.
So perspective now, if that's even possible, from senior law enforcement analyst and former Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe. So Andrew, does anything stand out to you about the shooting and the response by law enforcement at this stage? So Anderson, what we know from the two press conferences today, the response seems to be entirely in line with what you would expect and hope for from your local first responders. Took them about seven minutes or so to respond after the initial receipt of the 911 call.
And in a rural town of lightly populated, spread out over a big area, I think that's a pretty reasonable response time. The problem is, whether it's seven minutes or one minute, you're always after the shooter. You are coming in after the carnage has already begun. So the odds for law enforcement, as we've discussed many times, to resolve these situations peacefully with a quick response, is just not really possible.
The shooter was apparently armed with a pump action shotgun, 17-year-old student, a small caliber handgun as well. And they also was an improvised explosive device found at the scene. That's unusual. Obviously, that occurred in Columbine as well.
Yeah, I think the guns are fairly typical. What you would expect that a student, a child, would be able to get access to in the home. We don't know where the guns came from. It's presumably he didn't purchase himself as only 17 years old.
He wouldn't be able to do that. These were probably firearms that he had access to in the home. But we'll find out as the investigation goes on. The use of the IED is interesting to me.
It's not entirely unheard of. We certainly have examples of other mass shooters. The San Bernardino shooters come to mind. They had numerous IEDs that they left at the community center where they began their rampage.
But here, what it really connects to, for me, is the possibility of Columbine as an inspiration for this actor. We know that the shooting at Columbine in 1999, still, to this day, is a very, very powerful motivator, particularly to young people who are inclined to act out violently. They study it online. They read books about it.
They make trips to Columbine to see the school where it happened. So the use of the IED to me feels a little bit like an echo of Columbine. There's been some reporting that the song that he used in the background on his TikTok posting, just before the shooting, is also a song that is used by Eric Harris, one of the Columbine shooters, on his personal website, again, in 1999. So there may be some distinct connections here.
The investigation might uncover more connections in that regard. I mean, it seems, on the face of it, just crazy that people would take inspiration from what happened to Columbine. It is. It's crazy.
It's destructive. But this is what we have. We have young people who are clearly in trouble, who are struggling, probably in many different ways. And they seek and find community and inspiration, and all the strange ways that young people do that.
That's going to happen. The difference here, what makes us different than every other place on Earth is that those same troubled, disturbed young people can also get readily easy access to lethal firearms. That's what makes us different. That's why it's a combination of those two things that puts us in a situation where we're in, where it's four days into the year we have two schools shooting so far.
So, Bucklin, it's going to be a long year. How old is it determining a motive in terms of trying to prevent future strategies like this? Does it matter so much for each investigation? I think it does because every time we can get a better insight into what was motivating one of these actors as the potential of rendering additional signals or things that not even so much law enforcement, but that communities, school administrators, coaches, parents, friends, can look for if they see these red flags, they see these indicators, you know, quite possibly say something, bring this person to the attention of adults or authorities.
Like that's a long shot, but it's really the best we have right now. So it's definitely worth pursuing knowledge of what those motivations are. So we can look for them in other people. Andrew, thanks very much.
Next, more breaking news, what we're learning from the latest batch of unsealed documents connected to the latest sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein. His accomplice, Gillian Maxwell, their victims and big name associates and friends. And later the former president and foreign money, a new report showing how many millions of dollars foreign government showered on his properties while he was in the White House. I'm CNN tech reporter Claire Duffy.
This week on the podcast, In terms of service, the idea of writing in a car with no driver can feel daunting. And this technology raises questions about safety and the future of transportation. That's why I'm here with Nicole Gable, head of business development and strategic partnerships at WeMo. We've always been about safety, no distracted driving, no drunk driving.
We mo follows the rules of the road. Listen to CNN's terms of service, wherever you get your podcasts. So if I got news for your ears, the podcast, I am your host Michael Ian Black. His latest thing, you see this yesterday was, he finds the peace talks boring.
Not my favorite guy, but I gotta be honest with you. I know exactly what he's talking about. He's not negotiating, he's not in the room. But how do you think he receives the information?
Because I got a certain, because they all saw him. Sir, would you like to hear the latest? They should make like a comic strip out of it. Have I got news for your ears?
Check us out on Apple, Amazon Music, wherever you get podcasts. Even though you can watch the podcast on Spotify. The number is a people, I mean, this insane. Truly astonishing.
And he said that the majority of the girls interviewed were minors. So that just shows you how big this was. And this comes on top of yesterday's batch of documents. And those, again, were more depositions, but they also, while they had no blockbusters, they gave us a sense of the elite circle that Epstein traveled in.
Politicians, a prince, and other prominent men. Their identities all contained in new Jeffrey Epstein documents on sealed Wednesday. It's not just a joke, but a lot of people are not going to be honest. They're not going to be honest.
They're going to be honest. They're going to be honest. They're going to be honest. They're going to be honest.
They're going to be honest. They're going to be honest. They're going to be honest. They're going to be honest.
I would say that there's not much new in this, but I do think that it's important that the public had access to the documents, because it isn't just about Epstein. prominent figures including Prince Andrew, former presidents Bill Clinton and Donald Trump, and stem from a civil defamation lawsuit brought in 2015 against Epstein's former girlfriend Billane Maxwell, included our depositions, including one taken in 2016 from Joanna Schoberg, who worked for Epstein. She said in the document that she and Epstein had a conversation and quote, he said one time that Clinton likes them young, referring to girls. When asked if Clinton was a friend of Epstein's, she said she understood Epstein had quote, dealings with Clinton.
Clinton has not been accused of any crimes or wrongdoing related to Epstein and has denied any kind of criminal activity. A spokesperson for Clinton on Wednesday reiterated that Clinton knew nothing of Epstein's crimes. Schoberg also recalled a time she was with Epstein on one of his planes and Pilots said he needed to land in Atlantic City. Jeffrey said, great, we'll call up Trump and we'll go to, I don't recall the name of the casino, but we'll go to the casino.
She says in the deposition she never gave a massage to Trump. In 2002 Trump called Epstein a terrific guy, but he later said he threw Epstein out of his Mar-a-Lago club. Trump is not accused of any wrongdoing. When CNN asked for a statement, the Trump campaign responded by attacking the media.
The documents also contain excerpts of a deposition taken from the woman behind the lawsuit, Virginia Roberts drew free, who previously reached an out-of-court settlement in a separate sexual abuse lawsuit against Prince Andrew. Jufrey alleged in her deposition that she was Epstein's sex slave and Maxwell directed her to have sexual contact with people, including Prince Andrew and former New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, who died last year. But Prince Andrew and Richardson have denied wrongdoing. A spokesperson for Richardson denied he had ever met Jufrey.
I think for the survivors and the attorneys who have been working so hard to bring this to light, I do think it gives them a sense of at least some satisfaction and some justice that we're keeping the conversation going. Jufrey's attorney says the disclosure furthers the important goal of shutting down sex trafficking wherever it exists and holding more to account. The unsealing of these documents gets us closer to that goal. Attorneys for Gileigh Maxwell, who was serving a 20-year prison sentence, said in a statement on Wednesday, she is consistently and vehemently maintained her innocence.
What's next in terms of these documents? I mean, we were really, it seems like we're still at the beginning stages of these documents. In total, we've got just about 59 documents that we've seen. There are expected to be dozens and dozens more of them that we'll continue to roll out over the next several days.
So we'll continue to look through them. But this was a long litigation before it ultimately settled. And so there were a lot of depositions taken, a lot of discovery, a lot of subpoenas. So we're just going to have to keep coming through this to see what they're in.
And are some people's names being held back or is everybody's name going to be? There's just a small subset of people whose names are being held back. And some of those are victims who were minors at the time and their stories have never been public. Their names have never been public.
Unlike some of the others who have spoken out publicly, who spoke at the trial, they have kept them, their identity secret and the judge said she was going to keep that. So right now, those are the, that's really the main set of people whose identities we won't know. But otherwise the judge said that everyone else is going to be unsealed because of the public interest outweighs their privacy. First, can I have an ex-conforming president that Trump properties have kept making him money while he was in office and a new report tonight on which foreign governments spent millions of dollars at those properties.
The foreign president has lately made a habit of accusing the current one of taking money from foreign governments, most notably China. He's provided no evidence. On the other hand, Democrats on the House Oversight Committee today brought some receipts. They released report documenting they say millions of dollars that foreign governments spent at the former president's property as well he was in office.
The presidency which you'll remember began with serious questions about just that subject. More from Cn just a second later. These papers are just some of the many documents that I've signed turning over complete and total control to my sons. At the start of Donald Trump's presidency, he promised to hand over control of his companies to his two sons.
But he refused to divest his assets and he retained ownership. Now a report released by House Democrats reveals how Trump and his business raked in at least $7.8 million from foreign governments during his time in the White House. He not only lined his own pockets but he repeatedly sold out the American public interest in favor of the interest of these foreign governments. Congressman Jamie Raskin led the investigation, finding that the Chinese government and its state controlled entities spent more than $5.5 million to stay at Trump properties, including Trump Tower in New York City and the Trump International Hotels in Washington DC and Las Vegas.
Other countries handing over hundreds of thousands to Trump's businesses, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait and India. By defying the Constitution, he basically fulfilled the founder's worst fears which is that the president in order to line his own pockets would sell out the American interest in favor of particular foreign governments looking for policy favors from the president. And that's exactly what happened. The emoluments clause of the Constitution forbids a president from accepting any present emolument of any kind, whatever, from any king, prince or foreign state.
For years Democrats have alleged that foreign governments were buying favor with the Trump administration. I believe this is not only wrong in tomorrow but illegal. Mr. President!
The new report points to Trump declining to impose sanctions on the industrial and commercial bank of China for allegedly helping North Korea evade US sanctions after the state-owned bank leased property at Trump Tower and the Trump administration's $100 billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia in May 2017 around the same time the country spent about $600,000 at Trump-owned properties. Trump's team denies any wrongdoing. They point to the Trump Organization donating about $450,000 in estimated profits from foreign governments to the US Treasury. And Trump himself refusing to accept a paycheck during his time as president.
It's a lot of money I would have given away, like I give away my salary. Eric Trump responding, There is no president in United States history who is tougher on China than Donald Trump, a president who introduced billions and billions of dollars worth of tariffs on their goods and services. Meanwhile, Republicans continue to make the so far unproven allegations that President Biden has benefited from his son's business dealings in China and Ukraine. But in response to the report about Trump's businesses, Republican House Oversight Chair James Comer, who is leading the investigation into the Bidens, saying, It's beyond parity that Democrats continue their obsession with former President Trump.
President Trump has legitimate businesses, but the Bidens do not. What if anything can congressional Democrats do about this? Well, Anderson, they're really releasing this report, I guess, for two reasons at this point. First, they want people to be aware of Trump's business entanglements with foreign governments going into 2024.
Secondly, Congressman Raskin told me that he's going to work on legislation that would mandate reporting to Congress for any president or official who does take foreign payments and then find a way for Congress to approve or deny those payments to really have a check in place to enforce the emolluments clause because Anderson, obviously, when President Trump was in office, there was no action taken by Congress to actually enforce that clause. They're hoping that they could in the future. All right. Overseas now appreciate it.
The latest in the wake of the deadly a single attack in Iran since the 1979 revolution. Last night, US officials said that it bore the marks of the hallmarks of ISIS. Now, ISIS's claim responsibility, saying it was done by two suicide bombers, explosions and a memorial service marking the fourth anniversary of the US strike killing Qasam Soleimani claimed at least 84 lives and wounded nearly 300 more. So, you know, Snake Roberts and joins us now from Tel Aviv.
So, Nick, before ISIS's claim responsibility for yesterday's bombings, Iran had blamed Israel, promised a horse response. Is it clear if the claim by ISIS is going to impact those rising tension? It should do in part because it seems to be clear. ISIS's claim fairly matches the events and discrepancies on the numbers with what the Iranians say.
The numbers who were killed, the Iranians say one of the bombs at least was remote controlled. ISIS says that they were both suicide bombers, both the explosions. But it has ISIS's emo, the killing of large numbers of civilians, the targeting of Iran and indeed going after Qasam Soleimani's memorial because they believed Soleimani was a figure who was trying to shut down the Islamic State for Iran. So, a number of reasons to believe that.
But the Iranian leadership has still said, well, okay, maybe it was ISIS. We believe it was ISIS, but Israel was behind it, which of course is a nonsense. But it should lead to at least some easing of tensions. And I spoke today with the former head of military intelligence, the IDF, who very familiar with the battlefield himself, very familiar with dealing with complex issues in the region.
And I asked him about these rising tensions. He said that they weren't crossing a threshold at the moment, that he didn't think that there would be a massive response from Iran, but the word these were his words. Israel took the gloves off. You can see it in Gaza, you can see it with Hariri in Beirut, you can see it with the general in Damascus, even though nobody took responsibility, but the Iranians blamed Israel.
I think the Iranians will be very, very careful, even if after a provocation, they will suffer a loss, but starting a war with the US or even with Israel. They are not there yet. And I think that's an important part of Israel's assessment for those targeted strikes that Israel is responsible for, that we spoke about, Israel taking their gloves off. This is a calculated move, and they believe that within that threshold of a safety margin.
And where is really the thing tonight about the potential for any kind of spread of the conflict, especially along the northern border with Lebanon? Yeah, there is a real concern that there is a potential for it to spread along there. And of course, that ISIS strike in Tehran is still going to have an impact on Tehran's calculus in a way. And it has all these events have risen tensions.
And there is always that risk that a combination of events leads to a misreading of actions by one side or another. And Israel is still concerned about that. The defence minister today and the prime minister both spoke with President Biden's envoy who was here today and told him that this time is running out to get a solution along the northern border, in particular, because it's affecting the economy of Israel. 80,000 people displaced from there.
They really say they want a diplomatic solution, but time is running out for it. And, Robert, thanks very much. And about half an hour on DeSantis, followed by Nikki Haley, who got into questions from Iowa voters at Back to Back to Back, CNN Town Halls. We're going to have a preview coming up.
What's on the line for both presidential candidates 11 days from the Iowa caucuses. Next. We're looking at a live shot from Grandview University in Des Moines, Iowa. CNN is moderating Back to Back Town Halls there tonight.
The first with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, the moderator, Caitlin Collins. That begins in less than half an hour. The second with former UN ambassador, South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, moderator, Aaron Burnett, begins in an hour after that. Only 11 days until the Iowa caucuses.
We expect the candidates to discuss a wide variety of topics, including their pitches to undecided voters, wary of a third campaign by the former president. Joining us now with the Town Hall, our chief national affairs correspondent, Jeff Zaloney. So, Ambassador Haley has taken some flag for comments she made about Iowa and New Hampshire. What's the latest on that as she prepares?
Anderson, Governor Nikki Haley stepped into this long-running controversy and competition between Iowa and New Hampshire. Of course, the states that for generations have led the presidential voting and yes, there's competition between the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary, usually these candidates sort of keep state of their lanes when they're in the various states campaigning. But take a listen to what Governor Haley said last night campaigning in New Hampshire. I trust every single one of you.
You know how to do this. You know Iowa starts it. You know that you correct it. You know that you continue to go.
So, the applause and laughter you've heard in the audience in New Hampshire probably not will be the same here tonight where we expect Haley to likely clean up that answer. Of course, Iowa and New Hampshire don't always echo their responses. Often they choose different results. Sometimes, Iowa winners are rejected in New Hampshire vice versa.
But clearly, this has become a point where her rivals have seized upon it. Florida Governor Rhonda Santis used this as an example to call her a phony. Even the Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds who has endorsed his answers, she lashed out at Haley said she doesn't understand Iowa. So, look, the reason this matters, Anderson is she's trying to win over support in voters here in Iowa.
Taking a bit of a dig at them last night, probably not the smartest idea. So, we'll see if she cleans it up here tonight when she takes the stage and that would happen. Or not Rhonda Santis. I mean, is he running out of time to make his case to vote?
Anderson has no candidate who started at such a high level in this race with the exception of Donald Trump and he's closing really with all of his hopes on Iowa. The Iowa caucuses often end some presidential hopes. He hopes he is not in that list. He hopes that Iowa is the beginning of his other efforts.
But he's closing this campaign with far less money than he started with and he's closing it really with a considerable pressure to make a strong showing here in Iowa. Of course, he would like to win. But a strong second place showing for Santis would show that he is still in this race. So, he is really campaigning aggressively taking every question from voters from media who we did in the town hall here as well.
So, clearly, all is on the line here for the Santis in Iowa. You mentioned Donald Trump has the former president looming over these down halls tonight. In so many ways, Anderson, I mean, you cannot go to an event without a voter asking one of these candidates. Why don't you say more about Donald Trump?
Why don't you say this about Donald Trump? So, he is moving very large in this Republican race. He'll be back in the state tomorrow campaigning and talking to Trump advisers. One of the things that they say they're more worried about complacency among his supporters than they are actually about individual rivals.
So, this race really is starting to intensify in the new year 11 days before the Iowa caucuses. Yes, Donald Trump is the front runner. There's no doubt that there's also not but a single vote cast yet. So, this is a new beginning for many undecided voters.
And those questions start tonight in just about 20 minutes. Thanks very much. I mean, I've seen him in political commentators, Elizabeth Riften, David Axelrod, Scott Jennings and Van Jones. Listen, I mean, so much to say tonight, how big a problem can Nikki Hilly's comments actually be?
Well, listen, she's actually not wrong. As the saying goes, Iowa picks corn and New Hampshire picks presidents. It hasn't been since 2000, that the Republican candidate who won Iowa went on to win the presidency with George W. Bush.
So, in that regard, she's correct. You definitely don't want to insult your voters right ahead of it. But she knows she's always been playing for number two. And Iowa, she's playing for number one in New Hampshire.
And tonight, I would argue that the 11 days ahead is make or break for Andes Santis. There's not a path for him if he doesn't over-perform expectations at Iowa. He's just... It's an over-perform expectations.
I would argue it's hard for him to stay in the race even if he comes in a distant number two to Donald Trump. I think he's got to be Nikki Haley, kind of close to margin to Donald Trump. And even so, the money, the resources and the momentum is not there in New Hampshire. He's consistently third if not fourth place behind Chris Christie.
So, unless he beats Donald Trump in Iowa, I expect that a Santis campaign could be winding down soon. Yes, you do. No. I think that...
I don't think he's going to be Donald Trump. I don't think anybody's going to be Donald Trump. I mean, what's interesting is that he's looming large over this. But nobody will address him.
He's the person no one will address because he's so far ahead and they don't want to antagonize his voters. But I think the Santis has to have a strong second to keep going. And let me just say one thing on the Haley comment. Back in 2004, Howard Dean was buzzing along in the Iowa caucuses and a tape surface of him saying that the Iowa caucuses were a waste of time.
And that was the beginning of the end of Howard Dean. Iowans do not, as Jeff mentioned, like to see their caucuses denigrate. There is this battle between Iowa and New Hampshire. So, what you said was a great line for January 16th, which he just got ahead of herself there.
And I think it actually is not helpful. The strategic interplay among the campaigns and how they're setting expectations and how they're interfacing with each other is kind of fascinating. In Iowa, Trump is not addressing any of these candidates. In fact, I think they're at traffic right now as him contrasting his economic record against Joe Biden.
But if you go over to New Hampshire to Alysses Point, they're now attacking Nikki Haley on the air on the issue of immigration. They think that issue is going to put a lid on the surge that she has been saying in New Hampshire. And I don't think the Trump people really agree that she has gotten as close as we've seen her in some of the public polls. But obviously, they're not taking any chances.
And I, on to Santis, you know, 12 is the number for Trump. Anything north of 12 is a historic victory, right? You get below that, you get down into the single digits for Trump that meant you underperformed expectations. And if it's the Santis in second place, you can maybe try to play the resurrection narrative and keep it going.
And I think the point, I'm sorry, then, I think the point that they're worried about complacency has some reality to it. When you're being told over and over again that this guy has a commanding lead, there is less of a sense of urgency about coming up. Well, the Santis people believe their supporters are proven caucus goers. Far more likely to show up.
And that the Trump people are depending on a higher turnout of less frequent or new voters. And so the Santis people see some hope in that. They think more commitment to show up at a caucus and sit there and go through all that stuff, as opposed to showing up to vote. Look, I think Nikki Haley is, you got to peak at the right time and she's doing that.
The Santis peaked way too early and he's been sinking ever since. She's peeking at the right time, but she's making these gas at the wrong time. She just keeps saying dumb stuff. Just when people try to fall in love with her.
So, you know, I think that if she could just manage to just, you know, stay where she is and keep rising, I've been very, very surprised at how strongly she's coming across for Democrats. I'm hearing a lot of Democrats saying positive things about Nikki Haley and ways they don't say positive things about other Republicans. She could be a real threat to a Biden if she could get passed on Trump, but she's got to get her foot out of her mouth. She could be number two.
Gaff's just at the time that she's rising. The reason, Gaff's always come when you start getting a lot of attention. That's part of the test of running for president. There's more pressure, the better you do.
She's breaking late and so she's getting the attention late and she's stumbled a bit several times now. So, you know, we'll see how she pairs up. I hope that everyone's a forgiving member, but if not, she's still got New Hampshire. Look, she made a joke to Santis, but come a joke.
He is out of money. He's desperate. He doesn't, you can't find any way or any place where a poll that he's doing better today than he was yesterday. Well, and it's, I think that there's a lot of Republicans right now who fear a repeat of 2016, where the field doesn't consolidate when it needs to.
There's been a lot of pressure around Chris Chris Christie, who's had about 10% in New Hampshire to endorse someone or drop out of the race and just allow that sort of alternate to Trump vote to split. I think that momentum is only going to increase following Iowa because at the end of the day, there are a lot of Americans who want something other than Trump. We know six in 10 Americans don't want to Trump versus Biden rematch, but when you have the field split between three candidates, it's really hard for anyone to overtake the giant. You say six in 10 Americans, but you don't say six in 10 Republicans.
And there's a reason for that. I mean, he has a 50-point lead in national polls. Radical consolidation, though, doesn't all help Haley. I mean, if the Santis were a disappointing dropout, a large number of his people moving forward, go to Trump.
And I'll tell you what, you know, Trump can pull Ramaswami's chain and he down, he feels like it. And there's a, there's some percentages there. And I suspect he will do that at some point. So I agree that Christie is an anvil around Haley and New Hampshire, but some others, other consolidation will help Trump as well.
We'll take a quick break more to discuss about tonight's town halls, including how the candidates tackled today's school shooting in peri-Iowa, where six graders murdered, five others wounded, not far from Des Moines to tonight's event. Tonight's scene in town halls take place less than an hour's drive from that shooting in peri-Iowa that we talked about at the top of the hour, one sixth grader was murdered, four students, one school administrator, but wounded. Does that run to Santis and Nikki Haley have previously addressed attempts to curb gun violence? Who should not have access?
I think you're going to get an evolution tonight. I think they should have held this in a dance hall because I think you're going to see a lot of dancing around this issue. DeSantis was on with Kaitlyn some weeks ago and she pressed him on this red flag law and he was insistent that there's no evidence that that would be helpful. Though they have it in his own state, she has to appeal it.
It was passed by Republican legislature. They don't have much enthusiasm for that. But for her, the audience, obviously there in Iowa and she wants to be expectations in Iowa, the people of Iowa love the Second Amendment of course, but she's also talking to these independents in New Hampshire. You wonder if there's a little gear in the back of her mind thinking, do I need to say something to this group because so much of her strategy is banking on getting some of these independent voters to come into a Republican party?
I agree with that, Scott, but the vulnerability that's emerging now is her, that little gear in the back of her head and adjusting ever so slightly according to her political needs. Now she's getting called on it. She's got to be very careful about this because everybody knows the record that Van decides here and everything she said during this campaign. Well, I think she's also certainly trying to make inroads with women.
That's a core demographic that I think she has an advantage with. I think that the issue of gun violence and the fear of your kids going to school and the fact that they might be a victim of school should resonate so heavily with the suburban moms that we talk about. I wonder if that might be something that she realizes to reach what could be a core constituency. There may need to be some movement beyond just addressing the mental health concerns.
Sorry, I was going to say one of the things that I think Nikki Haley has done a good job on means looking at something like abortion. She has a deaf touch. She's able to convey some empathy even while she's taking a fairly conservative position often. Tonight would be a good chance to do that.
When this comes up, can she show that she can be that empathizer in chief, even if she's firm in her policy position. That's the way for her to get a win out of it. Obviously, the Santa's is not good at that kind of thing. That could be a way to show some separation.
I think she's doing pretty well among suburban voters around the Des Moines area. So on this happened 40 miles outside of Des Moines. The question is, can she press beyond that into some of these other areas and their movement on this issue may not be as well received. Yeah, a police plug-in Republican and I would tell me tonight, the Haley movement and I was real in the Metro's.
But can you get out into the rural areas? And of course, that's where Desantis is making on this evangelical sort of pastor network and then repel Ted Cruz before. So how she handles some of the issues that they're sensitive to out in the rural parts. They spend hailing to stances.
I think they spend about $10 million in attack ads. On each other. I think it's like 1.5 million attacking the former president. That's it.
Does that make sense to you? Well, it makes sense in that one of them is trying to pass the other to get to the next round and to challenge Trump. But again, I think this is a reflection of Trump's power within the party right now because there is a cost they feel to going frontally after him. So they'll go after each other's jugulars and they go after his capillary.
Right? They're not going to go full frontal on Trump because they want to, they want to create a path for at least people who are open to them and him to come their way. And there's, you know, he has made himself a sympathetic figure to Republican voters. So, you know, look at Chris Christie.
I mean, he's attacking Trump frontally and he's the least popular candidate in the Republican field. I think, you know, you say that Trump has made himself a sympathetic. I wonder if he had a world where he wasn't being indicted over and over and over again and he might and that world felt that he had to walk outside of the stage and actually debate somebody and maybe you're in a different world. I do think that if you look back, his Trump was in the same place very close in the poll and then every indictment, you should be pulling away, pulling away, pulling away.
Well, it happened at the same time to Santa's chose to wait. I mean, we said out here on election night, the sandals were riding high and in that immediate aftermath, it looked like people were ready to dump Trump and go in a different direction. And then they chose to wait and he waits several months and in that intervening period, everything that had to pound it with tens of millions of negative. Well, he's been attacked more than Donald Trump and Joe Biden combined.
Well, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is. I mean, hey, do you want to do that Mera? You want to know what, does that speak? So I, I might go ahead and follow the panel as anything, I'm not asking.
I think it's interesting that he's chosen to spend the day before the Iowa caucuses in the hearing in Washington over whether he has immunity or not. And I really do feel he's going to spend a lot of this campaign campaigning from courthouse steps because of what Van said. You can't discount the fact that so much of this was a strategic argument. He can't win.
Maybe it's because of the legal issues. Maybe it's because of something else. What's happened? All these national polls have come out showing Trump winning, winning in swing states, beating Joe Biden nationally.
And so if you're arguing that and they're still making it today, only Trump's going to lose. Trump's going to lose. Well, the Republican voters don't believe that. They think vindications at hand.
I want to thank everybody that back to the back of downtown polls with Ron DeSantis and the documentary called My Mom Jane. Our vulnerability is our greatest strength and our greatest connector. And so in telling the story, I don't feel vulnerable. I feel free.
We all have a story and you never know what somebody else carries. Talking grief, building community. That's what the podcast is all about. This is all there is.
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