This Sunday, campus terror. At least two students are dead and nine wounded. After a gunman opened fire in a classroom in the Brown University campus in Providence, Rhode Island. Everybody is reeling and we have a lot of recovery ahead of us.
After a manhunt overnight, the suspect now in custody. Plus, money matters. President Trump defends his record on the economy. You don't need $37 for your daughter.
Two or three is nice. Does he understand that these tariffs are raising prices? As worries grow about the cost of health insurance. I have not heard a solution from that side of the aisle about how to fix that.
I've heard a so-called plan with a three-year extension status quo. Steve Cornaki reveals the results of a brand new poll and rising threats. Three Americans killed in an attack in Syria and three others wounded. It was an ISIS attack on us and Syria.
As the pressure campaign against Venezuela escalates with the U.S. military seizing in oil tanker. Is the Trump administration seeking regime change? My guest this morning, Democratic Senator Rafael Warnock of Georgia and Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky joining me for insight and analysis are on and of Oz, co-anchor of PBS NewsHour.
Jonathan Martin of Politico, near a tandem president of the Center for American Progress, and Lonnie Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press. From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history.
This is Meet the Press, the Kristen Walker. Good Sunday morning. After gun violence terrorizes another American school community, a suspect now in custody. The gunman who opened fire on the campus of Brown University and Providence, Rhode Island, Saturday, killing two students in a classroom and leaving nine others wounded.
The shooter sending the campus and much of the surrounding area into lockdown. Authorities say it happened in an engineering building where students were taking exams ahead of their way to break. Overnight officials released this video of the suspect, the president of Brown University with this message earlier this morning. Everybody is reeling and we have a lot of recovery ahead of us.
So my main goal in the coming days and weeks and months it will take a long time is to bring people back together and help them feel safe and secure on campus. President Trump speaking out overnight. I've been fully briefed on the Brown University situation, what a terrible thing it is. And all we can do right now is pray for the victims.
And for those that were very badly hurt, it looks like, and we'll inform you later as to what's happening. But it's a shame. It's a shame. Just pray.
Thank you very much. And joining me now is NBC News National Law Enforcement and Intelligence correspondent Tom Winter. Tom, what are we learning this morning about the suspect and the motive? Well, good morning, Kristen.
Yes, law enforcement officials and multiple law enforcement officials in the Rhode Island era that we've spoken to say they believe that they have their person who is responsible for this, taken into custody in Rhode Island earlier this morning. We're told outside of the Providence area where the shooting occurred, that individual that we're looking at there on screen apparently was able to make it into the school, not wearing the all black and perhaps a camouflage mask was please described it last night, but was seen exiting that school where the shooting did occur right now. Police have not publicly identified the individual, though that could come later today as far as charges at this point. They believe there's going to be state charges although federal charges could be added later.
Apparently, according to people that have been briefed on this investigation, there was a unique characteristic on this individual's gun that witnesses described to police. And then this morning when the arrest was made by the FBI, the suspect being turned over to Providence police, apparently that gun that matches that description was found on this person. That's just one of the pieces of evidence that they're looking at this morning and one of the things that they're examining. As far as potential motive here, obviously that's a big question.
Right now we're told there's no indications of any sort of terrorism, but one avenue that they're definitely looking into is whether or not this particular individual had a specific axe to grind against that college, against that school that's located in that building, the engineering school or the building itself or the university at large. So that's definitely a big focus right now for investigators as they try and determine a motive. We could expect state charges to be filed as soon as later today or early tomorrow. That's where this investigation stands.
Certainly questions in the law enforcement community. According to a press conference last night and what officials said, this school was unlocked, the doors were unlocked because there were examinations that were going on. Kids were studying for final exams. And so there's some questions as to how individuals could come in or out of that building without any sort of a particular security ID badge or some sort of a swipe.
But that's all being looked at and being looked at by law enforcement, obviously as some questions for Brown University going forward as far as the free access to this campus. Undoubtedly a lot of questions just devastating. This has happened yet again. Tom Winter, thank you so much for your reporting.
We appreciate it. Thanks, Kristen. And joining me now is Democratic Senator Rafael Warnock of Georgia. Senator Warnock, welcome back to Meet the Press.
Good morning. Good to be here with you. It is good to have you. It is a somber morning.
Senator, I do want to start right there with that mass shooting on Brown University claim the life of two students. Senator, what is your message to the Brown University community, the broader community this morning? It is a somber morning indeed. And as I make my way to my own pulpit this morning, I'm going to say a special prayer for Brown University and for our nation.
And I can tell you that as a pastor who was presided over many funerals, I don't think that there's any pain deeper than when nature is violently reversed. And rather than children bearing their parents, the parent has to bear the child. And so we pray prayers for this for these families. But we have to pray not only with our lips, but with our action, any nation that tolerates this kind of violence year after year, decade after decade and random places on our college and school campuses without doing all that we can to stop it is broken and in need of more repair.
Well, we learned more horrific news that has happened overseas. A terror attack in Australia this morning at a Hanukkah celebration where at least 11 people are dead according to authority senator. What is your reaction to what appears to be a targeted anti-Semitic attack? We have to be very clear in condemning anti-Semitism.
We're seeing a rise of anti-Semitism in our own country. And across the globe, we have to condemn anti-Semitism. We have to condemn hatred and violence wherever it rears its ugly head. And I certainly will continue to do that.
But they are those who are trying to stoke fear and hatred all across the globe. And what they're trying to do is convince us that our neighbors are our enemies. We have to reject that premise and recommit ourselves to building what Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
called the beloved community. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. If my neighbors are not safe, I'm not safe. They are not my enemy.
We have to find common cause connected in the deep places of our humanity and recognize that all of us are children of God. Well, Senator, you of course do have a unique perspective on all of this because you are not just a senator, you are a pastor as you just referenced. And in fact, this week you gave a speech about how you believe faith can address some of these monumental challenges that this country is facing right now. And I want to play a part of it.
This is where you're talking about your father who worked at a local steel yard during the week and then preached on Sundays. Let's take a listen. But on Sunday morning, the junk man became the preacher man and the man who lifted broken cars during the week lifted broken people and told them that they were God somebody. My dad discovered strength in the broken places of power made perfect in weakness.
I'm convinced that we can lift the broken even as we climb. We can heal sick bodies. We can heal the wounds that divide us. We can heal the land.
We the people can do it, but we must do it together. Senator, how do you believe faith can address the deepening divides in our country, especially at a moment like this when here we are mourning yet another mashing. Well, I am calling on all of us to keep the faith. And I know that that's difficult at a time like this.
I don't say that in any kind of sugar-coated way. I understand the depth of the tragedy that we're facing even in this moment. But in this season of Advent and my own faith tradition as a Christian, the words of the book of John, I think, apply. It says that the light shines in the darkness and the darkness overcometh it not.
It's not that it isn't dark. It is dark. And there are forces that work in our world that are seeking to divide us. I think people are feeling a great deal of despair.
There's a kind of spiritual heaviness in the land as people see a deepening and widening chasm between what they need from their government. Everything is basic as the safety of their children when they leave them on a college campus or on a school campus, all the way to healthcare. And as that chasm broadens, I think a kind of cynicism and despair sets in. And rather than people turning toward each other, they are tempted to turn on each other.
And that creates just the kind of atmosphere where strong men emerge, promising to solve all of our problems in one fell swoop. We have to resist that and recognize that the way to our own wholeness and well-being is to affirm the humanity of our neighbors. Well, Senator, you take me to my next question because you're asking people to lean into faith. If you look at the data, though, it shows that Americans are actually moving away from organized religion.
So what is your message? And do you think Americans have an appetite for the type of faith-based solutions that you are proposing? Oh, I do. And I spend a lot of time, especially with young people.
And I think that there is a thirst and a deep interest in spirituality. What they are deeply suspicious of, as you point out, is organized religion. But there's a deep suspicion in American society at large with institutions in general. And churches, communities of faith are not somehow immune to that.
But what I am trying to call us to is the recognition that we have a common humanity and that we are called to dig deep in that in this moment. I'm a pastor, obviously, I think church does something. I think there's a danger in being isolated. And we're seeing this in this hyper-connected world in which people feel a deep sense of loneliness, a deep sense of loss.
And I'm calling on us to dig deep into our various moral traditions. You know, I'm struck by the fact that all the great faith religions, all the great faith traditions have some variation of what we call the golden rule. Do unto others, as you will have them do unto you. You see it in Judaism, you see it in Christianity, Islam, Hinduism.
People of moral courage who practice no particular faith tradition affirm that. And I think in this moment in which there are forces that work, political forces that work, trying to divide us, we have to double down on that commitment, check on our neighbors and recommit ourselves to a future that embraces all of our children. Senator, let me ask you about something else that you said in your speech. You said, my faith is not a weapon.
My faith is a bridge. You also say, quote, Trumpism is a plague on the American conscience. How do you square those two ideas for people? Yes, as I point out, I think over the last several years, you know, over the last 50 years and over the last year, we have seen a deepening divide between what people need from their government and what government is delivering.
There's a kind of corruption, legalized bribery that attends our politics. You see it in the frustrating fight to get basic health care for ordinary citizens. Surely the wealthiest nation on the planet can afford to provide basic health care to its citizens. We suffer not from a poverty of resources, but a poverty of moral imagination.
And I do think that Donald Trump, if he's better at something than anybody else, is dividing us. And I think it is a distraction. And while we are distracted and divided, we have literally witnessed the largest transfer of wealth in American history from the bottom to the top. And people are fighting to seeing that their costs for health care are doubling, while Congress engages in everyday political games.
They're seeing their utility costs go up, their grocery costs go up. And meanwhile, the president is saying that he would rate this economy and A++. The question for me is, who was he talking about? Clearly his friends are well connected to wealthy.
Certainly not the people that I see everyday in Georgia. Senator, let's talk about health care, because of course there's a big battle to extend the Obamacare subsidies which are set to expire at the end of the year. Do you think that Congress will be able to reach a deal to prevent subsidies from spiking? And if not, what will you say to your constituents to some 22 million people who will see their premium spike, Senator?
I hope we can fix it, but quite frankly, you ought to ask my Republican colleagues. They have the House, they have the Senate, they have the White House. We have given them 13 opportunities this year to stop these premiums from doubling. And every single time they turn their backs on their own constituents, and I really do mean their own constituents because it's people in red districts and red states who will be disproportionately impacted by these premiums that are set to double in a matter of weeks, triple for some people, quadruple for others.
I'll tell you I was down in Evans County, Georgia, Clackston, Georgia, that provides us those wonderful fruitcakes at Christmas time. And those folks have literally seen their labor and delivery unit close in recent years because of these draconian cuts to health care. And if we don't do something, they may very well lose their ICU. Can I tell you something, if you live in Clackston, Georgia, if you live in rural America, even if you have wealth and resources, and you're having a stroke, and there's no ICU within a reasonable distance because of these draconian cuts, you are impaired, your life is imperiled, you are in trouble.
We can do better than this. Senator, quickly before I let you go, Georgia, obviously shaping up to be one of the most closely watched Senate races with Senator John Ossoff defending his seat there. Can Democrats win back the Senate if you don't win Georgia? Oh, we're going to win Georgia.
Do you have to win Georgia? Do Democrats have to win Georgia if you want to win back the Senate? Listen, I'm going to let the pundits do the punditry. Georgia has saved the nation before.
Remember John Ossoff and I literally flipped the Senate, and Georgia's going to show up again. He's doing the work fighting for health care, fighting for affordability, and we're going to win Georgia. Alright, Senator Raphael Warnock, thank you very much for your time. We really appreciate it.
Great to be with you. Keep the faith. Thank you, Senator. When we come back, Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky joins me next.
Welcome back and joining me now is Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. Senator Paul, welcome back to meet the press. Good morning. Thanks for having me.
Thank you so much for being here. I wish the news were better. We are having this conversation against the backdrop of yet another American tragedy, yet another mass shooting. What was your reaction to learning about the mass shooting at Brown University?
And what do you want people to know about that tonight today? You know, I was just at Brown a few weeks ago. I gave a speech at the political union, got to meet several hundred other students, had a great interaction with them, so it kind of feels more personal because I hope it wasn't, you know, nobody deserves a doubt, but I hope it wasn't any of the students that I met or that I know. But yeah, just a tragedy and I think our prayers go out to the families of those who are injured and those who are killed.
Absolutely. I do have to ask you about what is being called a terror attack overnight in Australia, targeting the Jewish community at a Hanukkah celebration. Senator, do you believe the United States needs to be on height and alert in the wake of what happened in Australia? You know, I'm not sure.
I don't know if I know enough about that attack yet, but it doesn't sound good. There does seem to be a rise of anti-Semitism around the world in our country as well. And I think really it emphasizes that, you know, when our founders talked about, our founders talked about that, you know, in order for democracy to thrive, in order to have freedom, you had to have virtue, that really you have to have this idea of self-restraint. There has to be among the people an ability to obey the law and to know right from wrong.
Think about it. I ask audiences this all the time. If there were no laws against stealing, who would steal? And of course, no one graces their hands, but I think that's pretty well true that the vast majority of us don't steal because we think it's wrong.
The vast majority of us don't kill because we think it's wrong. But when a society loses a sense of right and wrong, then there's great danger for everyone. Well, and speaking of danger, I do have to ask you about this attack in Syria. Two U.S.
service members and one civilian interpreter were killed. Three other troops wounded in an ambush by an ISIS gunman. The president is threatening, quote, very serious retaliation for the attack. You are a part of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
Do you support the president, the United States, retaliating? What happened in Syria, Senator? Well, the soldiers who died are obviously heroes fighting for their country. The purpose of whether or not they should be there or not, though, is a big question.
In the first Trump administration, Trump proposed removing those troops and the neocons around him, the traditional conservatives around him. I don't know. We won't let you. We actually passed a law trying to prevent him from removing troops from Syria.
I was with the president in the first administration that a couple hundred troops in Syria are more of a tripwire than a strategic asset. I don't think they deter war. I think they basically, because Americans are targets, and jihadists around the world think they can get great glory and provoke terrorism by killing an American, that they become potential targets and tripwires to more interaction. Yes, the people who killed our soldiers should be punished.
But really, we need to reassess whether or not we should have troops in Syria to begin with. Okay. Let's talk about some domestic issues now. Senator, health care being really at the top of the list.
Senate Republicans, including yourself, rejected Democrats' health care plan that would have extended Obamacare tax credits. This effectively means 22 million Americans could see their health insurance premiums skyrocket next year if there is no deal, including 100,000 Kentuckians. Senator, what do you say to your constituents who will likely pay a whole lot more for their health care, and who feel as though there's blame to go around on everyone? I think the question we have to ask is, what are premiums doing with or without the Obamacare subsidies?
With the subsidies for the last 15 years, the curve of premiums has been up. Every time more subsidies are given, the premiums rise even faster. So we have a steep, steep curve of rising premiums, that it's because of the artificial demand part of it's because of the artificial demand. We also have to ask who the subsidies are going to.
And if I ask my fellow Kentuckians whether someone making $100,000 a year should get $13,000 in subsidies for insurance, most of them are a gas. They think of someone who makes $100,000 a year as being well off. But it's not just that. If you make $200,000 a year, you get over $1,000 a year in subsidies.
Why in any plan would somebody making $200,000 a year get money from the government? So none of the plans that have been proposed other than mine will bring down prices. My plan is this, let people in the individual market, the Obamacare market, which is about 4% of America, a small number of people, let them buy their insurance through Costco, Sam's Club, you know, Amazon. And what would happen is once you get a large enough size, let's say you had a couple million people buy their insurance together, that'd be bigger than any corporation in America.
But they'd no longer be stuck with an individual plan. They would get group insurance. They would probably have their negotiators sit down with the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, and they would get a one-on-one meeting and they would get to demand good insurance at a good price. Right now, if you're a small entity, one, you know, small business with two or three workers, you have no leverage, just take it or leave it and take it or leave it as meant rising, rising, rising premiums.
So my plan, all it requires, doesn't require any money. Just as legalized people to buy insurance across state loans, legalized people to have a co-op or a collective by the insurance for them. Just very quickly, though, and I know you have your own plan. Your fellow Republicans don't support your plan.
Why not extend the Obamacare subsidies while you are working out a plan where there is broader agreement? Well, actually, I do have quite a bit of support in the Republican side. I'm hoping to convince Democrats on this. President Trump supported it in his first administration, just exchanged some text messages with the President in the last couple of weeks.
He still supports this. This is the one thing that could bring it down. Extending the subsidies keeps the prices up. And most Republicans I know, myself included, are not willing to give money to rich people or to rich insurance companies.
It hasn't worked. And somebody making $200,000 shouldn't get money from somebody making $50,000 a year. It's just a bad system. It was rotten from the beginning.
And here's the thing is, if the subsidies expire, it's 15% of the subsidies, 85% of the subsidies that have been there since 2010 continue on. It still could impact some 22 million people. I do want to turn to Venezuela, though. This is an issue where you've been quite outspoken.
And as you know, this week, the administration seized an oil tanker off its coast with reports that more seizures could be coming. This comes, of course, as President Trump has been warning, Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro's days, quote, could be numbered. Do you think the United States is on the verge of war with Venezuela, Senator? You know, one of the things I liked about Donald Trump when he ran for office was against a regime change in Iraq against regime change in Libya.
But I'm concerned about this. And I think there are people around him influencing him. I think his instincts still are against war, but I think he's become more interested in regime change in Venezuela because of the prodding of the Secretary of State and others who have aggressively wanted regime change. regime change, unfortunately, doesn't always work out.
Look, I don't have it. I have no like for Maduro. I wrote a book called The Case Against Socialism about how bad things are in Venezuela. So I wish and hope for a better government down there.
But you don't know what you get. It could be the drug cartels take over. It could be that other generals take over. But the bottom line is the people there need to fight for their liberty, and it really isn't the job of America.
I mean, the President also said, well, be careful, Colombia, you could be next. I mean, if we're going to go in topple regime after regime in South America, there's no amount of money that can be printed to pay for that. And I don't think that the lives should be lost without a vote by Congress and the people approving of this. That's what our Constitution intended.
Okay. Final question on domestic policy on redistricting. President Trump is threatening to primary, as you know, all of the Indian lawmakers who voted against his redistricting plan, the new map that would have benefited Republicans. Do you support Republicans trying to redraw maps mid-decade?
You know, it's this escalation on both sides. You know, both sides are doing it, and so is one side going to sick quietly and not do it. You can argue who started it. But I do think this, and this is on the negative aspect of both parties doing this.
I think that it's going to leave to more civil tension and possibly more violence in our country, because think about it, if 35% of Texas is Democrat, solidly Democrat, and they have zero representation, or like in my state, we're a very Republican state, but we have one Democrat area in Louisville, and we have a Democrat congressman. We could carve up Louisville and get rid of that one congressman. But how does that make Democrats feel? I think it makes them feel like they're not represented, and so I don't know.
I think it's bad, but it's really not one part of the other doing it. It's both parties have been doing it since the beginning of time. But in general, when it becomes so extreme, like if California has no Republican representatives after this is done or has one left, I think that makes people so dissatisfied. They think, well, the electoral process isn't working anymore.
Maybe we have to resort to other means. And I don't want that, and I think both parties could happen to, but I think we need to be aware of and think about that before we do all this. Senator, I have to follow up with you, because what you're saying is very significant. You're saying that you are concerned redistricting could lead to more political violence?
I'm concerned if there are no representatives, like no Republican representatives in California or no Democrats in Texas, that it will be so thoroughly one side of it, people will feel like their vote is accounting. And so I think it's a mistake, but I'm not saying it's a mistake of the Republicans. I'm saying it's a mistake of both parties, and I don't know exactly how D.S. could like this, because once, you know, Texas has done and changed five seats to be more Republican, California is going to do the same thing, and it's back and forth and back and forth.
And how do you put the genie back in the box? I mean, how do you get back to Daytona? I mean, how do you do something better? But I think there is the potential that when people have no representation, that they feel disenfranchised, that it can lead and might lead to violence in our country.
All right, Senator Rand Paul, thank you so much, covered a lot of ground this morning. We really appreciate your being here. Thank you. When we come back, President Trump's struggles on his affordability message, will he reverse course?
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I'm You can give up pencils under the China policy. You know, every child can get 37 pencils. They only need one or two. They don't need that many.
But you always need, you always need steel. You don't need $37 for your daughter. Two or three is nice, but you don't need $37. So we're doing things that way.
That message based on my conversation, sending some concerns, shall we say, throughout the Republican party, this idea that kids should have fewer pencils. Fewer dolls for Christmas is not typically a political winner. Look, the party, his advisers, members of Congress, are pleading for an I feel your pain present. And instead they have an A plus plus plus plus present.
Look, Donald Trump cannot do patience. He can let alone do modesty. All he knows, his only pitch is sell. He wants to sell his presidency himself, his brand, and now America.
But that's not the moment that we're in, because he can't tell people that it's 72 and sunny when it's 35 and overcast. And I think that's more worth the economy is right now, and that goes to the heart of his challenge. It's a conundrum because the party needs some next year on the campaign through on the midterms. He has a bully poll, but nobody else has that.
But he's an unreliable surrogate. And so the party needs him out there. But if he's out there saying things like, only do a doll this year, you don't need three America. He's not helping the cause.
He's undermining his party's chances. I'm not too that point. That speech in Pennsylvania was supposed to be a speech solely focused on the economy. Yeah.
Affordability. And Jay Martz's point is he was asked what he gives himself on the economy. He said A plus plus plus plus five pluses. I believe.
How do you see this playing out as a midterm message in for Republicans? Do they need to start to sue themselves? Yeah. I mean, politically, as Jonathan says, the message is not meeting the moment.
This is what Americans are feeling every day in their lives practically. There's no more issue, more important to Americans than the cost of living and inflation. So Republicans have to be on message if they want to win back the voters' trust on this. If you look at the facts, absolutely, food prices, the increase there has eased over time, but it's still going up.
People felt that at Thanksgiving. Cost of goods coming from China. I've obviously been going up 80% of all toys that we import to America come from China. Christmas shopping is going to be more expensive.
Energy prices going up more. Systemic issues around housing and childcare. Our tariff rate, the average tariff rate right now is almost 17%. The highest it's been since the 1930s.
And I was looking through a Goldman Sachs report from October, which is how I spend my Saturday night. And it's found that companies are actually only passing along half of the cost of those digital tariffs to consumers so far. That means it's only going to get worse in the months ahead. Well, Lonnie, pick up on this point because against all of that backdrop, here we have this debate over healthcare.
Democrats fought for this during the government shutdown. The longest government shutdown in history. Republicans haven't offered a counterpoint to Obamacare, despite the fact that they say we've got to toss it out and start all over again. Is that at the root of this problem?
Well, I think the president is the one best position to put forward a plan. And I think he's the one who can unite the tribes. Look, there's a policy imperative and a political imperative. On the policy side, giving subsidies to people making a senator Paul said hundreds of thousands of dollars a year is not going to bring down the cost of healthcare.
Obamacare has not brought down the cost of healthcare in the long run. So Republicans have a policy imperative to put forward something. And the president's the guy who can do this ultimately put forward a plan that can address these challenges. Politically, if he does not address this, the challenge, of course, is that the party in power traditionally loses about 30 seats in the house in an internal election.
He looked back at the last five cycles. Politically, it is going to come back and fight Republicans if they're not able to make some progress on this critical issue. How many people do you think? I mean, I think this debate, and I actually thought Senator Rand Paul's point and Lonnie's point is a little bit of the problem for Republicans.
Which isn't. Because, you know, when you're talking about the premium tax credits, there's 22 million people who actually have more affordable healthcare. They can now afford it when they couldn't afford it. Their healthcare has gone down because of Obamacare, because of the Affordable Care Act.
And the truth is, the idea is that Republicans have even debated in the last week, Senator Cassidy put out a plan, does not have really unified support in both houses, but they put it forward. But even that plan actually raises costs, there's $10,000 deductibles, $7500 deductibles. That's not affordable to Americans either. So I think this is part and parcel of the problem and challenge, which is there is an easy answer here.
But it's too extensive premium tax credits. It's the easiest vote. But because the Republicans have systematically opposed expanding the Affordable Care Act, it's an ideological option. And that still may actually be where this lands, especially if Trump just comes out and says, I don't want to pick up the law.
In the 11th hour. I don't want to pick up local hit, let's just say for two years or whatever. He was there a few weeks ago. By the time, but he's not conveying that message yet.
And so on the Hill, they're left uncertain because they defer to him on everything, and he's not offering instructions because he's more focused on what else renovations. Why don't you think he does that? Well, I mean, ultimately, that would solve the political challenge in part. It's not going to solve it.
It doesn't address the policy question, which fundamentally is health care costs continue to go up year after year. Families are feeling squeezed. Now it's becoming a political challenge. I did have a senior administration official say to me, don't rule out the possibility of an 11th hour deal.
It doesn't seem like one's emerging, but Jay Mark makes the point. Anything's possible. Not so far. And who knows?
But this president, as Jonathan says, yes, lawmakers are concerned standing by to see what they can do. Time is the enemy here. They have very few working days left in this Congress. You'll get ahead to January.
There's going to be a government funding fight for both parties as well. There's absolutely right that, yes, more people are able to access under Obamacare some kind of health plan. But those premiums have been going up even before the subsidies were expiring. A third of people said that they skipped or postponed care because of the cost.
They don't fill prescriptions. This is going to continue to be felt in the New Year. All right, guys, stick around. We have a lot more to discuss.
When we come back, though, first, Steve Cornacki reveals the results of a brand new decision desk poll with some warning signs for the GOP. That's it. Welcome back, NBC News Chief Data Analyst, Steve Cornacki is here to break down the results of our latest NBC News decision desk poll. What do you got, Steve?
Yeah, Kristin. So, towards the end of 2025, we know that politically a tough ending of the year for Republicans and for President Trump. And certainly this NBC News decision desk poll showing the same thing, a 42% approval rating for Donald Trump. Now, we know his approval rating has existed in a pretty narrow range the entire time of both terms he's been in office.
However, that is down three points from the start of the year. I think maybe more worryingly for Trump though here when you look at this approval rating, look inside his own party. Now, overall, it's like close to a 90% approval rating with Republicans, but the intensity. How about this?
The folks who say they don't just approve, they strongly approve. And you can see here Republicans who call themselves, they say they identify with MAGA, the Make America Great Again Movement. 70% of them strongly approve of Trump. Those who say, you know, more traditional Republican, 35% of them strongly approve of Trump.
And Kristin, that's a change. So, imagine from the start of the year here it was 78% strongly for MAGA, 38% for traditional Republicans at the start of the year. So, this is really one to watch because historically the MAGA base has been unmovable. Yeah, and one thing we should note on this too, Kristin, this is an online poll.
This is looking at all adults, not just registered voters. So, we want to see when you're looking at other polls too. Is this something they're finding as well? But that's significant, certainly.
If that's something you start seeing across the board. The other thing here, along these same lines, just look at the composition of the Republican Party. We ask Republicans, do you identify more with MAGA or with just the Republican Party itself? 50-50 right now.
And again, start of the year, the balance was more on the MAGA side. So, moving a little bit away from that potential. Look at that low approval rating for Donald Trump. What might go into it?
We ask voters what matters most to you. 27%. It is the economy. Healthcare, you see, by the way, 17% when you're talking economy overwhelmingly.
It's the cost of living. It's inflation. And then look at this. You ask folks, are you better off or worse off versus a year ago?
It's 65-35. Now, Kristin, that's basically exactly what it was when Trump came to office. So, it's not like there's been a groundswell of people feeling differently over the course of the year. And then, you know, let's talk politics here.
Which party we ask voters to you trust more when it comes to those prices? That's Democrats' blue by six points. Health care costs. That's Democrats' blue by 14 points.
Think of those results we saw in New Jersey and Virginia. Certainly, you know, this could be an ingredient in that. Democratic hopes for next year, Republican fears for next year. And then on health care, too, I did want to make sure we mention this very important as this health care debate plays out.
We ask folks, overall, they're concerned about health care costs, but are you satisfied with the coverage you have right now? Overwhelmingly, their answer is yes. Eighty-two percent are very or somewhat satisfied with their existing coverage. Significant findings heading into the midterms.
Steve Krenaki, thank you so much for being here. When we come back, how strong is President John's hold on his party? We're with the panel next. Welcome back.
The panel is still with us. Let's start with you. And what happened in Indiana, the fact that you had state senators, Republican state senators, effectively rebuke President Trump, rebuke Vice President J.D. Vance and vote against their redistricting plan.
This was really the first time we've seen Republicans stand up to Trump in this way. Is it a sign that he could be losing his grip on parts of the party? Well, let's underscore here. Indian is a red state.
We're not talking about the president as one very handily year over year. When we talked to state lawmakers, Republican state lawmakers, they told us a few things mattered here. One, that they thought it was bad policy to do this kind of redistricting mid-decade, that they thought it was transactional. They didn't want to have to get into this every few years according to the whims of the president.
Two, that they felt their constituents didn't want it. There was very little support on the ground, even for a pre-vote rally that was held by Talking Point USA there. And then third, turning point, rather USA. And the third point, we talked to one senator in particular who had heard a derogatory slur the president used.
He himself has a daughter with disabilities. And he felt personally, I don't want to get behind this. I think it's important to point out, though, even that state party was divided. This was not a unified stance within Indiana Republicans.
And that, I think, is indicative of a larger divide we've seen. Yeah, it's really fascinating. J. Mark, I thought what Senator Paul said was really striking.
Yes. I believe this tip for tide over redistricting. I believe it's going to lead to more civil tension and possibly violence. What really captures this for arms race and nature of this, which is one party reaches political events.
The other tries to match them. And before you know it, we're more polarized and more divided. People don't feel like they have a voice. And they turn to extreme mean because of that.
Look, I was puzzled why the White House made this Indiana place in a public campaign. I think they raised the stakes by publicly threatening these lawmakers. They had done this in private prison. I don't think it would have been seen as such a kind of rebuke.
But because it's a public campaign, I was striking. Secondly, last month, the night of the Jersey and Virginia races. I wrote that the test the next few months, as whether or not Trump was losing altitude, would be if some of these states start saying no. And start saying no to his ask every apportionment.
And that's precisely what has happened. Politicians watch elections. And they saw what happened last month in the two governments races in India. And they said, well, maybe he doesn't have the kind of Jews that he had six months ago.
And that's a real tell. Lonnie, do you agree with that analysis? It shows that there are limits to the president's influence for sure. But I think that the bigger issue, of course, is that you've always had this slight tension or sort of uneasy coalition.
I think you have the MAGA elements of the Republican Party and then you have the more traditional elements of the party. And I think that support for President Trump is still pretty significant. But the challenge is that at some point, this sort of fissure or this sort of division is going to get played out. And you saw it in the survey, the NBC News survey that said that the identification of Republicans was 50% MAGA, 50% traditional Republican.
That is, I think, more divided. That represents a more divided coalition than we've seen at any point during the Trump presidency. So that is going to be a significant storyline to follow in the years to come as we think toward who the next leader of the Republican Party will be. You know, you're so interesting.
Susie Wiles, the president's chief of staff said he's going to be out campaigning like it's 2024. Is that a good thing or a negative thing for Democrats? What do you think? I hope the president campaigns in every corner of the country, red state, blue state.
I think the fundamental challenge for the president based on our earlier conversation is that his policies are raising costs for people. It's not just messaging for him, it's the tariffs. They have his tariffs. They are raising costs on average.
Families are spending $1,200 more because of the tariffs. The tax foundation called this the largest tax increase in almost 100 years. So it's his policies that Democrats are going to campaign on, which is not just what he's saying, and what he's saying is so counterproductive to Republican interest, but it's his actions, which are contributing to rising costs for you and your families. But Democrat, I don't think should want Trump to campaign in red states because in a midterm energy, that means he's going to bring out his voters.
Look, two weeks ago. Look at Tennessee. That was a highly polarized race. I know.
Lots of Republicans came out in the Democrats. It came 12 points higher. That's why the margin went from it was going to be three or four, and it became nine election day because Republicans got engaged in the final days. You don't want that to happen in a lot of these red states.
If Trump does get involved in red America, it's going to move his voters to the polls. The fundamental challenge that the GOP has is getting Trump voters out in non-Trump election years. And when they can pull off at least some of that, they're going to win at least red America. He also energizes Democrats and independents.
The critical issue is independent of the dramatic... This is why it's going to be critical for the president and the Republican party over the next six months to articulate specifically what is the plan on affordability. And I think that there are elements of this. The president's talked about it.
The president's all or nothing guy. He's going to be out there saying, here's my plan. And I think that ultimately is what's going to drive voters to vote Republican in the midterm elections. On the to that point, is it all about whether or not the president can stay on message?
Yes. Period. But also, even in places where he hasn't been on the ballot, like in Tennessee, where they just elected their first Democratic mayor in 30 years. Because policies resonate with people on the ground and have an impact whether he's there or not.
And that will likely continue to be the case. How big of a deal is Miami? I think it's significant because it shows that the swing to Trump last year was more about the moment of last year. The binaries between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris and the hangover of Biden and inflation than it was some significant realignment in American politics.
I think it bodes poorly for Republicans, not just in South Florida, but other parts of the country, especially where you have a large Hispanic population. We talked about Texas earlier. They're trying to redraw the state lines in Texas. The House lines rather in Texas.
The idea that we can grab five seats. I don't know if you can get five seats. I think a lot of the Hispanic voters in Texas were temporary Trump voters. They're not new Republicans.
Alright, Neera, my phone. I agree. I think the Texas jury manager really might actually come back to bite them. Alright.
Okay, guys. Thank you so much. Great conversation. Really appreciate it.
That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. Have a very happy Hanukkah to those who celebrate. We will be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's the press.
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