This Sunday, departing FBI Director Chris Wray announces he'll resign next month, clearing a path for President-elect Donald Trump's pick, Kash Patel, to lead the FBI. We look forward to a very smooth transition at the FBI, and I'll be ready to go on day one. It's time for a fresh start at the FBI. I have concerns just because of his agenda that he has expressed in the past.
Will the Senate confirm this Trump loyalist who has published an enemy's list? Plus, pardon power. As President Biden prepares to exit the stage, his decision to pardon his son is sparking backlash from Democrats and former White House aides. I do not agree with the way it was done.
I don't agree with the timing, and I don't agree, frankly, with the attack on our judicial system. My guests this morning, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. And new hope. After the fall of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, there's renewed optimism in the search for American journalist Austin Tice, who went missing in Syria over a decade ago.
I'll talk to Austin's mother, Deborah Tice. Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Ryan Nobles, I'm in the buzz co-anchor of PBS NewsHour, Ashley Etienne, former communications director to Vice President Harris, and Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press.
From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker. Good Sunday morning. The all-out push is intensifying to get President-elect Trump's cabinet picks confirmed from high stakes meetings on Capitol Hill to public outings with Mr.
Trump himself. On Saturday, the president-elect appeared in a suite at the Army Navy football game with his choice to be defense secretary, former Fox News host and veteran Pete Hegseth, and his pick to be the national intelligence director, former Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard. Hegseth has been accused of sexual assault, which he denies, and has been challenged to explain past statements about women in combat. After meeting for a second time with Iowa Senator Joni Ernst, the first female combat veteran to serve in the Senate, Hegseth praised female troops.
I also want an opportunity here to clarify comments that have been misconstrued that I somehow don't support women in the military. Some of our greatest warriors, our best warriors out there, are women who who serve, raise their right hand and defend this country and love our nation. Now it comes as some Republican senators say they are facing blowback after raising questions about President-elect Trump's picks. Do you feel like there's a pressure campaign against people who even throw out concern?
I do, and I think that that's a two-edged sword. Everybody toe the line, everybody line up. We got you here. And if you want to survive, you better be good.
Don't get on Santa's naughty list here because we will primary you. I mean, we are seeing that play out in real time right now with the nominees. And my friend Joni Ernst, who is probably one of the more conservative, principled Republican leaders in the in the Senate right now, is being hung out to dry for not being good enough. Also this week, President Biden issued a flurry of pardons and commutations for nonviolent offenders, commuting the sentences of almost 1500 people and pardoning 39 others.
The biggest single day act of clemency. It comes two weeks after the president pardoned his son, Hunter Biden. In a stunning twist, former senior White House aide Anita Dunn criticized the timing and justification of the Hunter Biden pardon. I absolutely agree with the president's decision here.
I do not agree with the way it was done. I don't agree with the timing and I don't agree, frankly, with the attack on our judicial system. Also making waves this week, FBI Director Christopher Wray told bureau employees he'll step aside before Mr. Trump takes office with nearly three years left in his 10-year term, bowing to the reality that the president-elect had publicly declared his desire to replace him.
In my view, this is the best way to avoid dragging the bureau deeper into the fray while reinforcing the values and principles that are so important in how we do our work. Kash Patel, a former federal prosecutor who President-elect Trump has picked to replace him, has called for the agency's headquarters to be dismantled. The FBI's footprint has gotten so freaking big. And the biggest problem the FBI has come out of its intel shops.
I'd break that component out of it. I'd shut down the FBI Hoover building on day one and reopening the next day as a museum of the deep state. Patel names roughly 60 people in his book as being part of the, quote, deep state. I asked President-elect Trump about that list in our one-on-one interview last week.
Do you want Kash Patel to launch investigations into people on that list? No, I mean, he's going to do what he thinks is right. Do you think that's right, sir? If they think that somebody was dishonest or crooked or a corrupt politician, I think he probably has an obligation to do it.
But are you going to direct him to do it? No, not at all. Not at all. And joining me now is Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.
Senator Graham, welcome back to Meet the Press. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. I want to start overseas in Syria.
I know that you have been quite focused on the conflict there. The fact that President Bashar al-Assad has been overturned by rebels creating a power vacuum there. I know you've expressed some concerns that there could be a resurgence of ISIS in Syria. I want to ask you, President-elect Trump has said the U.S.
should, quote, not get involved in Syria. Is that the right approach, Senator? Well, leave it up to the Syrians to form their new government, what kind of country they want to be, to a point. But we do have an interest in preventing ISIS from coming back on the battlefield.
For five years, they reigned terror in America, all over Europe, slaughtering people. ISIS fighters are killing machines. They want to purify Islam. They want to take down the King of Jordan, the King of Saudi Arabia.
They want to replace the UAE with a theocracy. You don't want these people in charge of the Mideast. They want to drive us out of the Mideast, and they want to destroy our friends in Israel. There are 50,000 ISIS fighters under the control of Kurdish allies of the United States in northeastern Syria.
It is in our national security interest they do not break out of jail and reestablish the caliphate. It is in our national security interest that we help the Kurds who destroyed the caliphate on our behalf. We lost about four soldiers, God bless them, in destroying the caliphate. I do not want ISIS to break out of jail.
Turkey is putting pressure on the Kurds in northeastern Syria. We need a demilitarized zone. Turkey has legitimate concerns about some of these Kurdish elements. But if Turkey attacks the Kurds and these ISIS fighters break out of jail, it's a nightmare for us.
It's a nightmare for Syria. It's a nightmare for the world. That cannot happen. All right, Senator Graham, I know you're going to continue to track that situation closely.
And whoever becomes the next defense secretary will inherit the crisis in Syria as well as a range of other crises on the world stage. You said last week that some of the allegations against Pete Hegseth, President Trump's pick to become the next defense secretary, were, quote, very disturbing. Senator, let me ask you at this point in time, are you prepared to vote yes on Pete Hegseth? And do you think he has enough support to get confirmed?
Yeah, I'm in a good place with Pete unless something I don't know about comes out. These allegations are disturbing, but they're anonymous. I asked him point blank, were you drunk in a bar and got up and said, let's kill all the Muslims? He said no.
There's one allegation on a police report about sexual assault. That person has the right to come forward to the committee. But about mismanagement of money, about, you know, having a drinking problem and saying inappropriate things. All of these are anonymous allegations.
He's given me his side of the story. It makes sense to me. I believe him. Unless somebody is willing to come forward, I think he's going to get through.
Remember Kavanaugh? Five people accused Justice Kavanaugh of misconduct. Three were outright lies. The other two, I think, were not credible.
So we're not going to let that happen to Pete. You're not going to destroy his nomination based on anonymous sources. People have to come forward and make credible allegations. And we'll see if they do.
Well, Pete Hegseth did sign a nondisclosure agreement with this person who came forward to accuse him of sexual misconduct. Do you want to see that? Should that type of information be released? Yeah, he said, yeah, he told me he would release her from that agreement.
Yeah, I mean, just think about what we're talking about. I'd want to know if anybody nominated for a high level job in Washington legitimately assaulted somebody. I've known Pete for years. I met him in Afghanistan.
I've heard nothing but good things about his service over there. He's a friend of the Pete Hegseth I know that this is not a problem I've been aware of. However, if people have an allegation to make, come forward and make it like they did in Kavanaugh. We'll we'll decide whether or not it's credible.
Right now, he's being tried by anonymous sources. That will not stand. Senator, how do you respond to your Republican colleagues? You heard Lisa Murkowski there at on every dreamer bill there is, but what's happened under President Biden?
You've allowed 13 million people come in here illegally. Until we deport people here illegally, why would you legalize it? If you legalize one person now, there'd be a run on the border. There will be no legalization.
There will be no dreamer bill until we lock our border down. And the number one job for the Budget Committee in the United States Senate is to pass a border security bill on day one. I want to cut taxes, but that comes later. To my friends in the House, we're playing Russian roulette with our national security.
Terrorists are all over the place trying to get in the country. 250 people die a day of fentanyl poisoning. What we will do in the Senate is come up with a border bill supported by Stephen Miller and President Trump to lock down the border, create agents to deport people, bed space so they don't have to be released, and finish the wall. That's what we're going to do.
If we don't do that first, it's national security malpractice. Secure the border first. Any legalization has to come after you secure your border. All right, well, you got it all in, Senator Graham.
Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas to you. Thanks for doing the lightning round with me. Appreciate it very much. And when we come back, Senator Bernie Sanders joins me next.
Welcome back. And joining me now is independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Senator Sanders, welcome back to Meet the Press. Great to be with you.
It's great to have you here. Let's start off by talking about the decision of FBI Director Christopher Wray to announce his resignation three years before the end of his term. Do you think that that was the right decision, Senator? Well, I'm a little bit nervous about it.
You know, when Trump talks about sending to jail people who are on that January 6th committee, that sounds like being a tinpot dictator. So I would hope that we have an FBI and a Justice Department that protects the civil liberties of the American people and does its best to protect American democracy. Well, we know the White House is considering potential preemptive pardons of those who clashed with President-elect Trump. In light of what the president-elect said to me, that yes, he does think that members of the January 6th committee should go to jail.
Do you think that Mr. Biden should issue preemptive pardons for the entire January 6th committee? Well, I think you might want to consider that very seriously. Look, that is an outrageous statement.
This is what authoritarianism is all about. It's what dictatorship is all about. You do not arrest elected officials who disagree with you, who undertake an investigation. So all of us, and I would tell you, Kristen, I think there are a lot of Republicans.
You just heard Lindsey Graham make that statement. I think that idea of Trump is not going to go very far. It is so quite outrageous. It was notable to hear Senator Lindsey Graham say no point blank when I asked if they should go to jail.
Let me ask you about President Biden's pardon of his son, Hunter. Former Biden senior advisor Anita Dunn said she agrees with the decision to pardon them. She disagrees with how it was carried out, the criticism of the Justice Department. And I want to remind you of what we heard from President Biden himself on this topic earlier this year.
Take a look. Will you accept the jury's outcome, their verdict, no matter what it is? Yes. And have you ruled out a pardon for your son?
Yes. I said I'd abide by the jury decision. I will do that and I will not pardon him. Senator, was it the right decision for the country to pardon Hunter Biden?
Well, I think two things. When you have his opponents going after his family as a father, as a parent, I think we can all understand Biden trying to protect his son and his family. On the other hand, I think the precedent being set is kind of a dangerous one. It's a very wide open pardon, which could, under different circumstances, lead to problems in terms of future presidents.
Do you think he could hurt his legacy with this pardon, Senator? Well, I think his legacy is a strong legacy. I think President Biden on domestic policies has been perhaps the most progressive president in American history since FDR. And I think the economy today in many ways is in very strong shape.
But I do believe as President Trump comes into office, we have got to understand, Kristen, and this is something I feel very strongly about, and it's not talked about enough. We are moving rapidly into an oligarchic form of society. Never before in American history have so few billionaires, so few people, had so much wealth and so much power. Never before has there been so much concentration of ownership sector after sector, power of Wall Street.
And never before in American history, and we've got to talk about this, have the people on top had so much political power. We can't go around the world and say, oh, well, you know, in Russia, Putin has an oligarchy. Well, we got an oligarchy here, too. And in this last election in both parties, billionaires spent huge amounts of money to elect their candidates.
You know, here in the state of Vermont, we believe we have town meetings, one person, one vote. That's democracy, not billionaires buying elections. Those are the issues we got to focus on. We got to rebuild the middle class.
Sixty percent of our people live in paycheck to paycheck. We're the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care to all people. Many seniors are struggling, high rates of childhood poverty. So I look forward to working with President Trump when he has ideas that are going to help the working class.
We will vigorously oppose them if he wants to attack democracy or women's rights to control their own bodies. And I want to ask you about one of the issues that you cited that you care deeply about. You obviously chair the Senate Health Committee. I want to get your reaction to the horrific shooting of the United HealthCare CEO Brian Thompson.
Your colleague, Senator Elizabeth Warren, said this. Violence is never the answer. This guy gets a trial who's allegedly killed the CEO of UnitedHealth. You can only push people so far.
And then they start to take matters into their own hands. Senator Warren quickly clarified. She said violence is never the answer, period. I should have been much clearer that there is never a justification for murder.
My big picture question for you, though, Senator, is this the right time in the wake of this horrific murder to be talking about health care policy? Look, Elizabeth Warren obviously understands killing and murder and shooting somebody in the back is totally unacceptable. But what I think has happened in the last few months is that what you have seen rising up is people's anger at a health insurance industry which denies people the health care that they desperately need while they make billions and billions of dollars in profit. So killing anybody, shooting somebody in the back who's a father of two is outrageous and is unacceptable to nobody.
Nobody should have applauded. I know Senator Warren did not. But I think what we need to ask ourselves when we talk about health care is why we are the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care to all people. Why we have a life expectancy which is significantly lower than in other countries.
Why working class people die five to 10 years shorter than the people on top. So, Kristen, I feel very strongly about this. And I think the time is long overdue for us to guarantee health care to every man, woman and child, especially at a time when we're spending twice as much per capita on health care as the people of every other nation. The goal of health care is not to make drug companies and insurance companies phenomenally rich.
It's to guarantee quality care to all of our people. Let me ask you about another topic, obviously very important to working class voters, the minimum wage. In my one on one interview with President-elect Trump, I asked him if he would consider raising the minimum wage. It's been at $7.25 since 2009.
He acknowledged it is too low. Senator, he also said it's quite complicated to raise the federal minimum wage. But do you think you can work with President-elect Trump and try to get a deal on raising the minimum wage? I truly hope so.
It is. I tried two years ago to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. We got zero. Not one Republican supported it.
We ended up with 42 votes. Look, a $7.25 per hour minimum wage is an absolute disgrace. We have millions of people in this country who are working for starvation wages. They cannot afford housing.
They cannot afford to adequately feed their kids. So, yes, we have got to raise the minimum wage. I would suggest it be $17 an hour, but I hope that we can work in a bipartisan way to finally accomplish that goal. And, Senator, I have to ask you about this story that has captured the country's attention, these reports of reported drones flying over New Jersey, other parts of the East Coast.
The Biden administration officials said, quote, there's been a slight overreaction to these reports. I wonder, what do you make of the Biden administration's reaction so far? Are you satisfied by the administration's reaction? I honestly don't know anything more about that than what I read in the papers.
Sorry, can't give you a great insight on that. Are you concerned, though? My concern? Yeah, I guess.
You know, I don't know what can I tell you. Yes, I'm concerned. Very quickly, RFK Jr. is going to be on Capitol Hill this week.
He's talked about food safety. I know that's something that you have said you what Richard thought, and we're just so glad that he went in there. And we're so glad that he filmed it. And it mattered.
It mattered to us hugely. This is very significant. You're saying you have also confirmed that you believe Austin was there in 2022. Yeah.
Okay. Syria obviously has this new rebel group that has taken over. Have you been in touch with any of the new leadership within Syria? They told the U.S.
government they're trying to find Austin. Well, we haven't engaged with them, but we work very closely with hostage aid worldwide. And they are on the ground. And so we asked people if they have any information at all that they reach out to hostage aid worldwide because they are the ones that we've been working with.
They've had a huge campaign in Syria and Lebanon about Austin, asking for information about Austin. And so now they're on the ground, and they are ready. They know. They know what to do when they find him.
They are on the ground. The Biden administration has said it's doing everything it can to bring Austin home, and yet based on what we've been told, there aren't U.S. officials in Damascus right now actively searching for Austin. Do you think there should be?
What do you make of that? Well, the U.S. government has made the decision that they're not going into Damascus. So my feeling is if they don't want to be there, they shouldn't be there.
And the people that are there are the people that are determined. And there are, you know, I mean, Richard Engel is there. Other journalists are there. Hostage aid worldwide is there.
They are determined to be looking. They are going into the field. They're going into some really deep and dark places. And obviously they are compelled to be there.
And the U.S. government is not. Should the U.S. government be there?
What do you think? We'll take your silence as your answer there. You know, there was this really remarkable moment this week where another American, Travis Timmerman, was found wandering on the streets, the outskirts of Damascus. Many thought for a moment this could be your son, Austin.
Of course, it was not. How did that moment unfold for you? So when I got to sleep, I just silence my phone and I really go to sleep. My children don't do that.
So my oldest daughter came into my room at 425 and said, Mom, you know, we have this video. You need to look at it. We don't think it's Austin, but a lot of people think it's Austin. So we want you to look and see if it's Austin.
And I'm kind of waking up out of the fog. And, you know, I took a glance and I said, no, that is not Austin. She said, yeah, no, no, Mom, it's not Austin. But we had to wake you up.
We had to, we had to ask you about it. And then, of course, we had so many people reaching out. This is so great. What a wonderful day.
And so it's almost like having a rehearsal, you know, uh, uh, like just an inkling of what it's gonna really feel like, uh, when it is Austin walking free. Did it feel like a moment of false hope? I know it was a fleeting moment before you looked at that photo, but even in that split second, did it feel like you had false hope? Well, the way that I've been feeling about the people that I see coming out and even Travis is, you know, that feeling where as humans, we share joy, right?
We share suffering too, but we share joy. And so just seeing these families reunited, think about Travis's family being reunited with him. You know what incredible joy. And we can share that.
What do you want people to know about Austin as you sit here today? And can you explain to people how you have kept going? How you've been so strong for more than 12 years now? Austin Tice, let's see.
He has a very strong will. He always has. He has a huge joy of life. He's very much a fully alive person when it's, he was in his first year of law school and he was compelled to go into the Marines and that, and he's just a man of honor.
Um, if he's, if he's called to do something, he's going to do it all the way. That's his personality. Um, he was in DC at 9 11 and he experienced that. He saw the Pentagon burning and um, he just, he just took it on as, you know, I have an obligation to serve my country.
And so he continued to do so with his decision to go to Syria. Uh, we are going to pray for his safe return as soon as possible. And that reunion that I know you hold in your head and your heart, Deborah Tice. It is an honor to have you here.
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. So wonderful to be here with you. Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you. I really appreciate it. And I'll be back with Austin. Well, we, we cannot wait for that moment.
Thank you so much, Deborah Tice. And when we come back, presidential pardons for family members. Is it ever appropriate or meet the President business? Welcome back.
New polls this week show low approval for President Biden's pardon of his son Hunter, a decision made earlier this month. Despite repeated promises, he wouldn't grant it. A similar controversy surrounded President Bill Clinton in 2001 after a string of pardons, including one for a fugitive from justice and another for his brother Roger, who faced drug charges days after those pardons. The late Senator Joe Lieberman joined this broadcast to share his thoughts on presidential clemency.
The Constitution article two gives the president an unlimited power of pardon and reprieve. But it seems to me that when you exercise this power, the best thing to do is to do it according to procedures. And when there's no consultation with, with the pardons attorney at the Justice Department or with the prosecutors who prosecuted the case, then people are going to second guess the decision of the president. How about legislation or a sense of the Senate resolution which says these are the procedures that should be used in granting a presidential pardon.
Well, you know, it's an interesting idea. I think the important question is, is there something more Congress can do to try to express through ourselves the will of the American people about a procedure uh uh for issuing pardons? And when we come back with just 36 days until a change of power in Washington, a Republican senator facing increased pressure to back Trump's cabinet picks. The panel is next to learn more about the books featured on Meet the Press.
Go to NBC news.com slash books. You'll also find new releases on history, biography and more. NBC news receives a commission for sales made through our website. Welcome back.
The panel is here. NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Ryan Nobles, Amna Nawaz, co-anchor of PBS NewsHour, Ashley Etienne, former communications director for Vice President Kamala Harris and Peggy Noonan, columnist for The Wall Street Journal and author of the new book, A Certain Idea of America. Peggy, we've got the new book right here. Congratulations.
We're gonna get to it. Let's start off though, right? I want to start by talking about these confirmation battles that we are seeing unfold on Capitol Hill. A flurry of meetings.
Pete Hegseth had really been in the spotlight, obviously with President-elect Trump at your meeting yesterday. Where does the battle go from here? Who is kind of going to be in focus this coming week? Yeah, and I think the way to look at this is, and you can do it in the lens of the Pete Hegseth nomination, is that there's not gonna be any more early exits, right?
We saw Matt Gaetz exit the confirmation process pretty quickly because it was clear he didn't have the votes. All these other nominees and there's quite a handful of them that have controversial issues behind them. They're all going to get their due here. They're going to get the opportunity to go through the confirmation process, answer questions in an open hearing, and then we'll see if they have the votes.
There's no doubt that the Hegseth nomination is in a much better position than it was two weeks ago, meaning that senators are open to letting him go through this process, but there's no guarantee that he's going to make it through the finish line at this point. Next week is going to be crucial though, because that's when Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is going to be on Capitol Hill for the first time.
He's a very controversial pick. Even within the Republican party, there are a lot of issues that he has that could be stumbling blocks. For instance, the pro-life community is not happy that he would take over an agency like the Department of Health and Human Services. So the question is, does RKjr's arrival shield Pete Hegseth to get through the holidays and into the next stage of the confirmation battle?
Those are all the things we're going to be watching for on Capitol Hill. And what are you watching for? And of course, this comes as Christopher Wray announced he's resigning three years short of when he was supposed to leave his post. The interesting thing about the Wray decision was that the argument of why Wray should have stayed, right, which was, if you believe that this powerful organization that people have worked so hard to keep nonpolitical, that's the 10-year terms.
If you believe that it should remain that way, then you stay and you fight and you make the president fire you, right, if he's going to do that, rather than obeying in advance. And the implications of that, I think, are, we'll see immediately at the Bureau. This clears the way for his Trump nominee, Cash some of what President-elect Trump has said. He was very clear no when I asked him should President-elect Trump, his administration jail the January 6th committee members.
But that's not something that the U.S. Senate can stop him from doing. Same thing with the pardoning of the January 6th defendants. So we do have to look for these opportunities that the Senate has to be a co-equal branch of government and push back on maybe the most radical things that Donald Trump wants to do.
I think the first showdown could potentially be this idea of a recess appointment. This is really in the control of the Congress, whether or not they allow a recess appointment to happen. It's not something he can just do unilaterally. I'm told that it remains a tool in the toolbox that if Republicans feel that Democrats are the ones standing in the way of a nominee that could potentially have the votes.
But ultimately, with 53 votes, Republicans are going to determine whether or not these nominees make it through the confirmation process. And if Trump doesn't have the votes and then pushes them to go the recess appointment route, which opens up a Pandora's box down the road, that could be the indication to us whether or not they're going to roll over every single time he challenges them or whether or not they're actually going to stand up to him when they think it's necessary. I'm going to give us a final thought on this. And on, is there any hope that something could get done in a bipartisan fashion, like what Senator Sanders said, getting something on the minimum wage, for example?
There could be a path ahead for a few of those issues. I think Dreamers, for example, there's always been bipartisan support and there's been indication from both parties I talked to. I think we're going to know a lot about how President Trump's next term will go within the first 24 hours. A lot of those day one actions.
We'll see how far he's willing to go in the past. He's really pushed the envelope and had to dial it back then based on the way the public has reacted or based on what the law has said, the courts have said. We'll learn a lot in those first days. Sources have already told us they expect tens of executive orders in the first week alone.
So if you tell me those are already written and ready to go. I'm watching immigration very, very closely. We know that Trump is very, very susceptible to public perception. He told you that in the interview as well.
That's where I'm watching most closely. All right. Great conversation. Thank you all for being here.
That is all for today. Thank you for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's meet the press. I'm Craig Melvin.
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