Decoding Tony Hawk’s mindset in 72 minutes

fourth game just got released, it got me in the top 10 sales right away and he said, the first three are still in the top 10. And I said, what does that even mean? And he's like, this is what it means. And he slid a check across the table for $4.5 million. That's how it made my facility.

I feel like I can rule the world. I know I can be what I want to. Put my law in it like a day's off. I'm gonna roll this travel. Never get back.

Tony, can we show you something really quick? Just so you understand how real this is all about to be. Oh sure. So we're business nerds, but at least one of us has grown up watching you. And we'll show you why I like talking to you.

This is me skating. Can you see his video? Wow. Is that a 360 flip reset? Yeah, 37 years old.

Damn. So look, there's a sixth there. That's amazing. Was that the Riverside Park right there? Riverside State Park.

I moved right by just like every Saturday and Sunday. Sick. I'll just meet you there so you can teach me how to relearn 360 flips. Yeah, right. Have you stayed there a bunch?

I can't do them on flat anymore. I can only do them on banks. Well, that's more impressive. But I grew up watching you forever. And so it's pretty cool that we've intersected at this strange place called My First Million where we talk about business and stuff.

I'm so excited to talk to you. I know Sean is too. Yeah, actually Sam, I have a funny story. I met Tony once many years ago now, like 10 years ago, we went on a trip to Ethiopia with charity water. Yeah, so I was like, I know that face.

Yeah, so we're in the middle of nowhere. It's like there's no service. There's no nothing. There's no water, right? That's why we're there.

There's no water in these villages. And we're on the side of a mountain to kind of do it a hike. And this guy's like Tony Hawk. And he recognized Tony Hawk on the side of a mountain in Ethiopia a place where they didn't even have anything. It was incredible.

And the funny thing was the whole trip was like a bunch of who was like, oh, this guy created Spotify. This guy created this nobody knew anyone except for Tony Hawk. He got recognized on the side of a mountain. I thought that was unbelievable. That was a fun trip.

I had never experienced anything so remote for sure, but also with the whole mission of it, life changing water. Like it was insane. We got to fix wells. That was wild. Yeah.

We got to see the water come out for the first time. And it was when the guys are like blast and stuff. It was amazing. How'd you get looped into that, Tony? I was a big donor to charity water.

And I had actually sponsored a well in the name of my daughter, who was very young at the time. She's now in college. But we got to go visit the actual well. And people were thanking me on my daughter's behalf. And it was really cool.

That's one of the amazing things charity water did. And this is really not about charity. It's kind of a business lesson. When Scott started charity water, he had no background in charity. But he decided, hey, why don't I give to charity board?

He's like, well, I think the main thing is you don't know where the money goes. You kind of give it. It's a black box. You hope something gets happening. But you never really feel the impact, see the impact.

And so what he was doing was, if you donated, you get a GPS tracker of exactly where in the world, you would see the flow meter of how much water is coming from your well once it comes online. And then for people like Tony, who were doing a full well, he would do this once in a lifetime type of thing. You could go see it, go see the place and go talk to the people who are the beneficiaries of this. And I just think that that was such an unlock for him and why one of the reasons he was able to do so well as a nonprofit compared to the kind of standard operating procedures of nonprofits. Yeah, I agree.

Well, also, I mean, coming from having my own foundation, I see how more of engaging it is to have to know where your money goes. Like, there's money that goes to research. And that's hard to track. And it obviously has value. But when we do skate parks, you have literal, concrete proof of where your money goes.

And here it is. And you can go skate it. What year did you start doing that? 2002. Okay.

And how many of you built? Oh, wow. That we have to contribute to. Yeah. Can you actually talk about that?

Because I'm at this point in life where I've always had my own love to give. I'm a good person. I'm going to give. But then it was always when I was younger, I was like, well, I'll give later, right? Like, not now.

Let me first, let me first get mine. Then I'm going to give it. I realized pretty recently, like, man, the get in mind never stops. You probably just have to start giving even maybe before it feels totally comfortable to do so and get going back in 2002 when you said you did that. Was it like, had you kind of like made it or has there never made it?

You know, what's the right way to think about that? I think it has to start with a passion of what affected you in your life or how did you overcome something or what did you see avoid of, in my case, my skate park was the skate park that I grew up near was my foundation. Like, that was the place where I felt like I belonged. It was obviously the place where I owned my skills. But more importantly, I found my crew there and skating wasn't cool in the early 80s.

And we were a bunch of misfits, outcasts, like, you know, it was cliche, jocks, putting you in trash cans and stuff like that. And like, it's all true. But we found our friends there and our support system. And it was just a safe place. And, you know, not just for skating, but to hang out.

And so when I found myself having this crazy success, I could see there was obviously a lack of skate parks because cities and even parents hadn't really accepted skateboarding as valid yet. And I just thought, the best thing I can do is provide these facilities for kids who feel disenfranchised for underserved areas. That was it. That was the idea. We had no idea what we were doing.

My brother, actually my brother and my sister and I just sort of started on a whim and started figuring out projects that already had some legs or were their seats planted for a skate park and they were up against a lot of opposition from the city or from the community. And we could give them at the very least an endorsement and a validation. So the early grants were $10,000, $5,000, but that was enough to give them some sort of incentive and acknowledgement. And usually that pushed it over, at least pushed it through to an approval process.

And we learned as we went along and we ended up getting more big donations from corporations and any contracts that I entered into in terms of endorsements at the time. I made sure that 10 to 20% went straight to the foundation or that they were able to give even more. I mean, no, I'm sure you guys know the skate parks are living here one. It's wild. Like 20 years ago in New York City, skate park, what?

Yeah, now there's a bunch of them and skateboarding is very cyclical. I don't know where we are in the cycle right now, but it doesn't feel like it's down. That's for sure. Well, I think that most of the skate parks, 20, 30 years ago, were temporary structures. We're now building them into communities, into the landscape out of concrete.

I feel like they're more here to stay than ever. It was early days, you were talking about when you were a kid, just go to the skate park, you found your crew. Was it obvious that you were good? I mean, you became the Michael Jordan of your sport. I just kind of want to know about that.

Would anybody have known, couldn't they have seen that when they saw you at those early days? Probably not in the first couple of years. I was pretty bad. I was just kind of flailing. I didn't understand what style was or how to create it.

Am I skating? All I cared about was tricks. And so whatever it takes to do tricks, the body mechanics of that aren't pretty. You know what I mean? How do you spin your board around?

How do you turn this way? How do you go that way? And it was all just like, that's all I cared about. It was just like, that was fascinating to me that there were things that hadn't been done yet that were possible and that I could do them at an early age. It wasn't until probably my third, real third year of skating that I started to get some recognition.

I started to, you know, everything then was competition based. So your value, your ranking, that was the only way people were going to notice you. And I started moving up the ranks. In fact, when I finally got sponsored by the bonus brigade, I was an amateur. I won the amateur series that year.

And I owe a lot to Stacey Peralta because he recognized something in me that maybe I didn't even see. He was doing some innovative tricks. They weren't big, but they were interesting to him. But I guess what he saw in me was I was always frustrated and he saw that I was determined and that I had the tenacity to keep at something until I get it and against, you know, even against my own safety. We talk a bunch, Charlie Munger, one of the best investors.

He has this line where he's like, take something serious that most people don't. And that's like a really good way to get outside returns. And it definitely, I mean, that's obvious. That's what you did skateboarding was not popular at all. And it seems like you took it serious.

But did you have any mental attributes that you think stood out amongst the other good guys at the time? Hey, I want to tell you about something pretty cool. We have a database of all of the business ideas that have been discussed on this podcast. So hundreds of episodes, the team at HubSpot went through, they pulled out all the simple, relatable, interesting, profitable ideas that we have brainstormed and they're all available for download for free. Just click the link in the description below.

Thank you to our friends at HubSpot for sponsoring this podcast and putting together this free resource for you guys. Back to the show. I think I was just relentlessly determined. I just never gave up. And you know, through repetition, through failure, I had to figure these things out.

And I didn't know that was such an attribute at the time. It just felt like more of an obsession. And even just doing things I wanted to do when I was a kid, my mom would say, her friends would say, like, your kid's a nightmare. He won't give up. And she's like, well, he's just very determined.

And so she saw it as positive. That is what kept me afloat or at least motivated even through success. Because there's a mindset, especially in skateboarding where you want to make it, right? You want to get on the cover thrasher or you want to have a good video part or you want to win a contest. And if you get to that goal, you might lose your incentives.

I didn't care so much about those accolades. I cared about learning new tricks. So the day after a contest, like a big one, maybe even if I had won, I'm back on the ramp trying some new tricks. Like, I'm on to the next one. Sean, there's this word that skaters use a lot.

People use the word progression. Like you really progressed. I thought you were going to say like a skater slang. No, it was like a skater phrase where you use progression. I got much stranger ones, but go ahead.

But you wouldn't think of like a punk rock kid being like, progression, man. That's right. I mean, the idea is skating is interesting because like, let's say you alley down a two-star. It's like, if you very easily can be like, all right, I can do two. Let's see if I can do three.

Okay, I can do three. Let's say I can do four. So skating, there's very much this like incremental progress that's very measurable. And it's really exciting. And so like when I was skating as a kid, that's one thing I remember was like progression.

And I remember what's, I wasn't great. I was fine. But I remember what separated me from someone who's amazing. And then there's a whole other category, which is Utah. And of like these people who are never satisfied with where they progressed to, it was always like, now what?

Now what? Now what? And it kept going. And those are the ones that have the longevity. And those are the ones that kids look to you because they're not just basking in their glory.

Right. You know, we often will talk about the upside of greatness, the outcome of greatness, what it's like to do all the great things, but very rarely do you get to understand the price of greatness. So I want to ask you about the price of greatness that, you know, there's a guy who I went to the same high school side. He made it to the NBA for one year. You don't even know his name.

Joe Alexander probably never heard this guy, you know, had just a little vacation in the league, but he was, he goes on TikTok and he says, here's what my life looked like from the age of nine. And he said, every day, this was my schedule. This is what I did. This was my, these were my rules I had for myself. And he's like, this is what it took.

Plus, I had a growth spurt and got to six eight. So plus the natural gifts. All the work that it took to get to the level I got to, I just want people to understand that I really love these videos because for those who enjoy the work, it's like, Oh, here's a blueprint I can follow. Here's a frame breaker. Maybe that maybe I'm capable of doing more.

And for others who don't want to do the work, it's like don't even don't dream about that stuff. Because this is what it takes. If I asked you what's your version of that, what was the price of greatness when you were sort of eight nine, 10, 11, 12 years old, what did your life look like? As soon as the bell rang, I figured out a way to get to the skate park. That was it.

I was at the skate park until, until either my mom got off work, which was usually late because she worked at a night school college community college or until they closed and I was able to get a ride home from someone that was 16. That was it. I was there all day. And I mean, a lot of times I would forget to eat. I wasn't trying to be skinny, but it was like skating was just a distraction.

That was that was time away from the pool. I think the difference is when you're working towards something like NBA, you know that there's this there's this goal and there is professional, there's there's income, there's fans, whatever it is to reach the top of skateboarding at the time. I did it. It meant that you got your picture in a magazine. That was it.

I mean, truly like first place for a competition was $100 and I wasn't pro. So like I'm just trying to get free gear. That's the goal. I know that. I mean, you were making some money when you were 16, 17, 18.

I wasn't that sure. I mean, that did eventually come and I got to ride the wave of skateboarding's growth and popularity, which was incredible and was something that I never dreamed of because that's I guess that's the point is you when you were a kid in those days skateboarding, you couldn't dream of being rich or famous because no one was. So what did you think you'd be doing at like age 40 where you're like, I got to just have fun now and maybe I'll teach you about it. Oh, I mean, my ultimate, I guess what I saw for myself, I was always really good at mathematics. I thought I'd be a math teacher because I always help my friends with homework.

I wasn't aspiring to some professional level. It was just more like, oh, I'm good at this and that will probably be my career trajectory. And then once I was 16, money started to come in through royalties and suddenly realized that I was making more than my math teacher. You know, I'm 17. I've noticed this trend.

And this is actually something that has always surprised me. We had this guy named David Rubenstein on the other day. He's like a billionaire guy who started really successful company and we've had a bunch of incredibly successful people on. And I've asked this question many times, like, where did you think it was going to go? And almost all the time, the answer has been like magnitude smaller than where they ended up.

I think there's this like famous scene with Jeff Bezos and he was pitching his first investor when he was starting Amazon. And he was like, you know, guy, if we really nail it, I think this company can make $100 million a year. I really think it can do it. Or if you're like at like Uber's early pitch deck, it's like, if this goes well, and like the number was like 30 or $40 million a year or something like that. And it's so interesting to see that like when you have these huge outsized, great results, very rarely is the person who's doing it prediction, even remotely in that stratosphere.

Oh, no, please. I mean, my first year as a professional skateboarder, I had $640 in the bank for my contest earnings. And I went out and bought myself a Honda scooter so that I could get to the skate park by myself and not have to rely on my parents for rides because their hours were not in tune with how much I wanted to skate. During that grind period, I've heard I read somewhere like you had a sort of $5 day budget. Well, that came later.

So I went through this first wave of success, which was I like to accredit to back to the future. Like when back to the future came out in 85, kids wanted skateboards. I mean, Marty McFly invented the skateboard and a lot of kids, that was their first glimpse of what's possible. So there was this sort of wave of popularity that happened like 86 to 90ish. And I was by then a young adult.

I only owned two houses. I had a lot of ramps set up and then things dropped off very quickly in 91. My income was dropping by half every month. And what were you like 19? In 90, I was I was 22 by then.

What were you making leading up to that? And then what did it have to? Oh, wow. I would say probably in my best year was in the hundred thousands ish, you know, in the late eight mid eighties, late eighties. That was I was like lawyer salaries sort of thing.

And I had no vision of saving for the future. So I was like taking all my friends on vacation and buying the newest car and then flipping that one and buying another one and not flipping it, paying depreciation and then buying another one and you know, going on shopping sprees, a sharper image. And you know, I had the invincibility of youth on my side. And then all of a sudden it went down. I mean, I guess if I had to give you an example, I was making about $1,500 a month from my shoe sponsor airwalk.

They would call me every month or so and say, oh, you know, we really got to cut you down a little bit. So then that went to a thousand and then two months later, that went to 500 and eventually ended up at 300 within the same year. Times man. And as that's happening, are you happening? I'm struggling to pay my mortgage.

I'm taking every odd job I can. And by that, I mean, well, okay. So this is this is 1990. I'm 22. I am officially too old to be a featured skateboarder like in commercials because they thought it was just a kid thing.

But I would but because they knew my name, I would get hired as a Hollywood consultant. So I would I mean, I remember this one shoot vividly. I they asked me to build a build a long tramp so that the skater could go through the frame of this thing they wanted and then they were going to drop glitter or something down as he did it. And so they gave me $500 for two days work. And they gave me $100 to build a long tramp.

I built a long tramp in my driveway. I borrowed someone's truck, drove it to Hollywood, set it up in this park, set it up exactly where they wanted. And then they said, okay, can you jump through the frame a couple of times so we can see what it looks like? Okay. So I do the trick that eventually this younger kid is going to do and he does it and I drive the ramp home and pay my mortgage down once.

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So you don't create just content. You create content that converts. Check out HubSpot.com, the agent customer platform for growing businesses. This is crazy story where you bought a house when you were 17 and you're like, that was insane because you were a senior and I had a house. But what's crazier is that your father supported it.

I think you said it was maybe his idea or he was like, yeah, it was his idea. And then what he saw that I was careless with my income. I wasn't saving for taxes either. Well, and that's what I wanted to ask about your dad because like Sean and I are young parents and like, I think your dad was like, he founded like the National State Board Association. He encouraged you to go house like he.

That's not like the most supportive dad ever. What have you learned anything about parenting from him on like how to like encourage your kids to do what they love? Of course. I mean, well, he was he was the shining example of supporting your kids even though they're doing something that isn't necessarily going to be a career, but to support them in their passions. My older sister was a singer in high school and he would he would carry like he was a roadie.

You know, he was a Navy pilot from World War II. A child of the Depression had a really rough childhood of him on his own. So he went all in when he had kids and he was obviously very frugal with his money. I mean, my mom had to raise four kids on a Navy salary while he was away. But yeah, I learned I learned that you know, you just jump in and and try to connect.

I mean, you know, my kids they all skate, but they're all in the different stuff and like my daughter is in the theater and I would take her to New York and go to all the shows with her. I don't want to go to Broadway shows. You know, but it wasn't that wasn't something that was like my first choice going to New York, but I want to experience it with her and I want to understand it. And now she's at USC studying theater. So it's that kind of thing.

And I definitely learned it by example from my father. When I was 17, there was a new development of homes going up of duplexes near where my parents lived. And my dad said, I think that it would be a good idea to try to get one of these homes and I can cosign for you because you're not 18. And I mean, all I heard was you're going to be your own place. He'd be like, it wasn't about the financial future.

It was more like, oh my God, I have a place to party. And you know, you're a senior in high school with your own place. You're the popular one now. Yeah. I would just put you in your trash can.

So you when you were in this kind of the down slide of it though, you said you're doing these kind of odd jobs to pay the mortgage. I mean, did you consider quitting at this point? Are you just like, I don't know. What was your mindset then? And what would you tell yourself to get the kind of through that period?

Well, I never considered quitting skating because I never started skating for money. So even if I had to find a quote, real job at the time, I was going to find time to skate. That was just, you know, that was ingrained in me. That was that was my Zen. That was my my escape.

So what I told myself was you better start learning other skills. And I did. I learned how to edit video. I actually had a kind of primitive video editing system, but I could do video effects and stuff. So I took some jobs doing that as well.

I actually ironically edited a commercial for any sea tour graphics, which was a video game system at the time because my friend worked for them and said, Hey, Tony could do this for a 10th of the cost that you're going to pay. And I did it. And so it was just stuff like that. Like I just was trying to hustle and make it as me. And I mean, I by then I had a child and you had to provide for.

So it just forced me into gear, but all along I kept skating. Have you ever? I know I'm harping on this, but there's there's you and then there's this guy named Rodney Mullins. Sean, have you heard that name Rodney Mullins? No, he's another he there's him and Tony are on the Mount Rushmore with two other guys, but it's definitely him and Tony on the Mount Rushmore skating.

He's like Tony, but was for flat ground. So he I think maybe the kick flip he invented, but he meant that so many more things. And there's this like talk where he gives and you could see it's I think it's on Ted and you could see how obsessed he is where he talks about being I think he was raised in the Midwest somewhere with all flat ground and Florida Florida. Sorry. He grew up on a farm in Florida and he's like obsessed.

I know what it's like. Yeah. And this like because you see it and everyone who's great, you have to have a combination of talent luck and this like obsession. Have you ever like analyzed that personality type about what makes you or someone like Rodney Tick and how it's different from the average person? I haven't other people have tried.

I recognize it. Like I've seen it in younger skaters where I know that they're they're going to they're going to make it. What are the tells because you're not there with them every day. So how do you pick up on that? There's a they can't quench their desire and they do some of the craziest stuff.

They do some of the hardest things and they just have this look of intensity, not joy. It doesn't look joyous. That's what it is. You know, Rodney, like he created the black round Ollie. He created the kick flip, the 360 flip, the impossible.

And he did it and he was on to the next one. It's so funny. You're talking about that feeling joy because you're like a very happy, nice guy. But then in 99, I think when you did the 900, one of my favorite like clips is not actually the 900. But you see, I'm always fascinated by this like lock in moment.

You see you on top of the ramp and you look like a different person. You do not seem joyful. You are just totally in the zone. And I was always curious what allows you or what do you feel like when you truly lock in and you have to perform, I think it was live TV. I remember watching it, but I don't know if it was live or not.

But you have all these people there. Like I'm always curious what you tell yourself before you have to do something great with all this pressure on in order to lock in because it seems like you changed to a different person. I think what do I tell myself? I tell myself this is the one every time and I am way past testing this. And if I feel like, I mean, there's so many elements, especially to that trick, there's so many elements that's like, you got to have the right amount of speed, you got to have the trajectory, you need enough height to be able to see your landing zone.

But at some point, you take all those things for granted and you know you were going to commit to it, even if one of those things isn't right, which I did, obviously in that moment, several times or a dozen times, if you look at it, are you fearful? You don't see failure. That's what it is. I do not see when I'm doing that. I don't consider consequence.

I don't consider that I might be too tired and give up. I don't consider that I might seriously injure myself because once those thoughts enter your head, they can spiral out or that that is the that will be the actual outcome of this. I knew in that moment that you're either I'm either going to make the trick or you're going to carry me unconscious out of the Serena. What were the odds of success of that trick? Well, for me, the odds up to that point in my life, the odds were 100% that I'm going to get hurt if I try to make this because every other time that I tried to make it, I got hurt.

So you had never done it before that moment? No. In practice, nothing, never. No, no, no one had no one had made it completely and written away. But I knew I mean, the last time that I truly committed to it was a few years before that and I broke my rip on a ramp in a warehouse at around 2 p.m. on a weekday and I had to go

pick up my oldest son, he was little then at preschool, barely able to breathe because I had broken my rip and like he's waiting for me. So I had to go again. That was the sort of state of things in 1994 and then fast forward and no one's watching. Like I just did it because I want to make it and then fast forward five years and it's on this huge stage on live ESPN. Like it just made no sense.

But I blocked all that out because it was like I'm finally the threshold of doing this thing that has plagued me for 10 years and I have the support of my peers, which I mean, I think what people saw in that moment that is much bigger than what I did is they saw that there's this pursuit, the sport that yes is competitive, but there's so much comradery in it and the progression of it is dependent on a collective effort. And so what they saw was like, well, that seems cool. I feel like a lot of kids saw that like this seems cool. Like you skate with your friends, you compete against them, but they cheer you on and you can do stuff that no one's ever done. I don't know.

I hope that that was the bigger takeaway from that moment. Well, this is crazy to me. So I guess I'm not like Sam, I'm not a skater. I didn't, but I paid attention to this just because everybody did at that moment. It was cool.

I had always assumed just because I was like didn't really look that much into it to be honest, but I just always assumed that I knew nobody had ever done it kind of like in competition or visibly. I didn't know you had never done it in practice. Not even like that. So the gap between like kind of the expected objective result, which would have been you break your ribber worse and then like the glory of actually pulling it off in this moment, that doesn't even make sense to me. That blows my mind that you even tried it.

The reason I tried it, I'll tell you the reason I tried it is because it was a best trick event. We had 20 minutes. My best trick at the time was a Varyll 720, which means that your body does a double spin 720 and your board doesn't 900. That's what it that's what the Varyll means. I had made that once in my life.

And so I was like that's my best trick, right? I did it. I did it halfway into the event. I didn't expect to be able to make it even possibly. So the fact that I did it, I didn't really have anywhere to go.

And if I remember correctly, the on-site announcer, not the on-air announcer, but the on-site announcer Dave Duncan, who has been announcing the eight competitions since the eighties, he called me out. He's like, see, one of those 900 attempts, Tony? And I was like, dude, like, cut the hell off things. You know I can't do it. You know I've never haven't done it.

But I thought, yeah, why not? That is the next stage of what I want to do. And I tried, my first couple were just for the crowd. It was just more like, look, here, this is what it looks like to spin two and a half times around because I can bail out of them safely. That's when I really start to commit to them is when they start getting dangerous.

And I would say within my probably like fifth attempt, something clicked that every attempt was consistent. Usually we're skating on these rickety ramps. They're, you know, one wall is kind of vert, one wall is over vert. They're not that wide. Like, you know, this was state of the art half pipe that we had never really been able to ride in those years.

And I felt like, wow, my speed is consistent. My spin is consistent. Like before, I would get maybe one good try out of five. And I had to commit to that one good try. And now all the tries were good.

So I guess I can commit again. You know, somewhere around the sixth attempt, I thought, all right, I'm going to commit to these landings and see how it goes. You know, I knew that the time was up. I thought we were off air because they said, you have 20 minutes. So I figured, okay, that's the live feed, right?

But that wasn't, that wasn't the incentive for this. The incentive for this was to finally get past this milestone or this hurdle that had plagued me for so long. So when I finally made it, you know, I knew that it wasn't part of the competition. I didn't think it was on air to live TV. I was just finally at this relief.

That's what you saw. And, and my first thought was, I never have to do this again. I'm free. I'm free from this burden. I'm free of this.

Little did I know, watch what you wish for because I know everywhere I went. That's all they wanted. The following years, people were like, do 900. Wait, were you able to just do 900s from then on? Like you, you.

I can't do them occasionally, but they always took several tries and they didn't always work out. Sometimes I would just get exhausted and it didn't work or the ramp is too slippery or whatever. Do Sean, you should see it now. Now there's kids that would do like back to back like, is it what's after nine hundred, ten, twenty? They do nine hundred.

They do back to back nine hundreds. Yeah. So, I think if you flip body varal 900, you know, I mean, I'm just going to kick this in the middle of the nine hundred. Is this like a Roger banister now that you know, it's possible or like a year better? Yeah.

I mean, that's what it was always. But that is the, the, the through line of skateboarding. We keep building upon what we saw, which is exactly what I did, but the era that I grew up in, a 360 was the most you could spin. And then Mike McGill did the 540 and then I did a 720 and then 14 years passed and we tween that in the 900. So I discovered you through your video game.

I used to play it every day after school, all the dream cast. I love that thing. That game was incredible. I mean, I'm not sure about the video game. And I understand it.

There was like a, you know, because there's a business podcast. There was like a moment where they try to buy you out or like, your royalty stock. Can you just tell the video game story of the telling house? Sure. Well, I mean, you're talking about my first million.

That's where it came from. Without question, the, well, the story of the game, it started actually more around 1997. I got a call from a, a video game designer. I would say more like a coder who was said, I want to, you know, I worked on this engine for skateboarding. I want to see if you would go pitch it with me as a game to publishers and console, console manufacturers.

And I was all in. I mean, I, I loved, you know, I was, I was arcade kid. It was an arcade in the state park. And the last game that had been released up to that moment was skater die for Commodore 64. So we're, we're years past that we were coming into home consoles more now.

And in the, what he had, it was on a laptop. It was, it was keyboard controls. It was like the skater just kind of carving in around bowls. It was, it wasn't great, but it was, it was something in the, and the graphics look better than anything that had been previously released. So I went with him to meetings.

We met Nintendo. We met a few software publishers and just no takers. I mean, it was almost embarrassing the conversations that we were having with these people because it was like, I remember one, one guy said skateboarding is even popular. Why would a skateboarding video game be popular? Was this before the 900?

Yeah. Yeah. This is like, this is like 97ish and I didn't have a good answer to that. And this guy that I was working with got really frustrated and he just said, look, I got a, I got to find a job. Like, I don't think this is it.

I don't think this is what's happening. And I kind of agreed with him. Like, I don't really want to go to these pitch meetings either because they're just kind of degrading. And he said, everybody, do you remember when the last thing he said to me, he said, I feel like your name is now planted in the video game world as someone who would like to work on a game or do a game. And, and if someone does one, they'll probably call you.

And I was like, sure. And about a year later, I got a call from Activision and they said, we heard you're working on a game. And I was like, I'm not, but I want to. And they said, well, we are, we are working on a game that is skateboarding. And we would like you to come see it and see if you want to be involved.

And I went up to Activision. And I was just released, what was it called? Apocalypse with Bruce Willis. Like literally featuring the likeness and voice of Bruce Willis, which was kind of a, that was a new thing. Where they been?

And they said, the game? No, the company activated. Activision. No, not a huge. I mean, they're their biggest hit before that was pitfall.

But was it like dozens or hundreds of employees? More like dozens. Wow. They had just been taken over Bobby Kotek actually just took over the company. And I think bought it for much less than they ever expected.

And they were just trying to make something new happen. And like I said, I mean, you're talking about pitfall, that was like, that was mid 80s. The good thing about that was that they were open to kind of anything. They didn't have this cookie cutter approach that this is how we make popular games. They have to be first-person shooters.

They have to, you know, they didn't have the Call of Duty mindset. So they were willing to let us kind of go crazy with the skate game. So I went up there and the very, they handed me a controller and a modified PlayStation and the first version of what became THPS that I got to play was Bruce Willis on a skateboard with a gun strapped to his back to doing all these kick flips across the desert. And it was amazing. I mean, it was, it was like, as soon as I did, I was intuitive, the controls were intuitive.

I was, like I said, I was doing, I was doing, I was doing method errors. Um, no, you weren't Bruce Willis was doing. Yeah, yeah, he was. And I thought this is, this could be the coolest thing ever. For skateboarders and like everyone told me at the time, skateboarding was not popular, but I set out to make a skateboarding game that hardcore skaters themselves would appreciate.

That was my goal. That was my goal. That was awesome. Like, I don't know if you know the Sean, but all the levels, they were, those are real like skate spots. Like when I moved to San Francisco, I saw third in army on Tony Hawk's first skater.

I got to go skate it. Or like, that's how I got introduced to like gold finger and like a lot of these bands that was awesome. And then like, you know, a lot of steam or Andrew Reynolds Jeff Rowley, like all these skaters that were on there, they were like, my guys now, it created a whole thing. It was pretty wild because it was like authentic to like the skater nerds who talk about it. But then like anyone was into it.

It was, it was pretty crazy. You found that sweet spot where the hardcore, you know, enthusiasts, you know, respects it, but it's broad enough where a guy like me who's never skateboarder didn't know these are all after reports. I just could use and have fun, right? So Pixar movie where it has two different people can watch it and get in both enjoy, but at two totally different levels. Yeah.

And I didn't really expect it to resonate with non skaters. I knew it was a fun game because I had played video games my whole life, but I also knew that it was niche and skateboarding was still kind of more alternative and whatever you want to say. But I will say that I got lucky in, I mean, I got lucky in all kinds of ways, but one way was I had just done a couple of big marketing campaigns, promotions for brands that I believe in, but their campaign was cheesy in terms of how represented skateboarding because they wanted, you know, it was Madison Avenue and they had their take on what skateboarding was. And I just went along because I'm finally getting paid, you know, to do something with skateboarding.

And I, but I didn't feel like it had skateboarders integrity in mind or they didn't really care about it. And so I told myself, if I get any more big deals from big companies, I'm going to, I'm going to demand that I have final approval over what goes out. That was a daring move at that time because skateboarding was still, you know, it was ex games, but everyone else knew better of how to do commercials and campaigns and stuff. And so the very first contract I signed with that approval demand was Activision. And like I said, they were kind of throwing everything against the wall.

So they said, okay, we'll trust him. And then as the game started to get developed, as it started, there was kind of a buzz in the air about it. I actually, I mean, it's been a long time. So I'm not getting in trouble anymore, but I burned copies of it from my friends while we were developing it. So like a few of my friends have beta versions of TPS and I actually modified their PlayStation so they could play it because I wanted to be honest to be back from real skaters.

This is before we actually chose the characters and they would let other people play it and prominent skaters. And at some point there was a buzz in the skate industry about the game. They just called it the game. And I knew that we were on to something if hardcore skaters are excited to go buy a console to play this game. And then as Activision started to, as we were getting close to the release date, they started sending it to game review magazines, media outlets, whoever would pay attention and started getting insane feedback.

I mean, they were getting reviews of like 9.0, 9.10, whatever. And right before the release, they called me and said, we want to offer you a buyout of future royalties. And I said, what does that mean? They said, we want to offer you half a million dollars and then you won't get royalties going forward. At that time in my life, someone's saying half a million dollars sounded like a half a gazillion dollars.

Like I had never heard anyone speak those words unless they're talking about some fantastical person that we will never meet. But I had just bought a new house. I had got a mortgage that could finally afford. I had some decent prospects with sponsorships with competition. I was still competing.

And I thought, now I'm going to let her ride. Like, why not? That's how I made my first million. Do you remember, can you recall the day after the first game or a few games in or a few years in where you started making money where you're like, oh, wow, life is different now because of this game? Sure.

Yeah. I would say definitely after the second release where things exploded with interest and also just in terms of because of that, people knew my name more in the general public. And then suddenly I was getting offers to do bigger campaigns. I mean, I was getting invited to Red Carpet premiere. Random stuff that made no sense to me.

It was exciting, but it was also just kind of like this is a weird level of fame that I'd never expected or even wanted. But I will tell you that when the fourth game was released, if I have this right, I had lunch with my connection at Activision, actually, when I was LA. It's like, I really want to talk to you about the game and the future of it. And fourth game just got released. It got to me in the top 10 sales right away.

And he said, the first three are still in the top 10. So at that time, four out of the top 10 games were TPS. And I said, what does that even mean? And he's like, this is what it means. He slid a check across the table for $4.5 million.

Was that life changing? Yeah. Was it the same feeling as the 900 just relief or this time you had some joy? I mean, it's joy. I never did it for that though.

So it wasn't like, OK, that's it. I'm finally, I finally made it. It was nice to know that my family would not have to stroke. My guess is about to buy my friends at Mercury. They make the world's best banking product.

I think you know this already. I use Mercury for all my businesses. I think I have like maybe seven or eight businesses. We use Mercury as our business banking across all of them. And now they actually just launched a personal bank account.

So I have my personal account there. I moved off of Wells Fargo and Chase. I'm just all in on Mercury. Why? I like products that are easy to use.

I like products that get me and the problems that I have. So like very easy to make, a joint account with my wife, very easy to spin up virtual cards. One click and I get savings yield. It's just has all the stuff that I need in one place. So if you're looking for the best banking product on the market, it's definitely Mercury.

I will fist by anybody who disagrees with me on that. Go to Mercury.com slash personal and learn more. Mercury is a FinTech, not an FDIC insured bank. Baking services provided through Choice Financial Group and Callum and A, members of FDIC. Not many people were doing the type of thing you did.

Like you were actually in a way one of the first kind of influencers to have a product or a brand right now. Like today, that's very, very common. But actually you're one of the early success stories. No, that was super strange. I mean, people would talk about Tony Hawk and they're not talking about me.

But even the game designers and the people who work at Activision would be like, oh, for the next Tony Hawk, I'm like, hi. Well, it's a very, it's a very strange thing because there's like Wayne Gretzky, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong, Tony Hawk. Like that's a very, maybe like Kelly Slater for surfing, but it's a very strange thing I'd have to imagine. Do you guys hang out once a year together? Face of the sports?

You can get out of the dinner that we do. You put your hands in the middle like your rings touch. Wow. Yeah. That's some Illuminati.

No. But my name was associated with games. Like Jordan is, you probably switch it with shoes, right? But it was wild. And I think at some point I embraced that more.

I was trying to, you know, make it more like it's not me. That's not what the, but I'm proud of that the series and I'm proud of what I brought to it. And I'm proud of how it affected kids at a formative age. Like you said, people discovered a certain type of music. They discovered a love for skateboarding.

I think also a fan base discovered an appreciation for skateboarding that maybe they never had. And that was the, that was the tipping point for skateboarding because before that, the only people that skated were, that love skating were skaters, right? You could not explain the nuances of a kickflip to a non skater before in 1998. They didn't care. Why are you still playing with that toy?

And after that, it was like people tuned in and they appreciated that like there, there became a reverence for Rodney Mullen. Finally, you know, he was like the oddball freestyle kid. And all of a sudden it was like, Nope, he created this, these tricks in this language. Well, I think one of the things that for me at least, you know, I don't think I ever cared about the skating, but there was always something that, you know, I think the great athletes and the great performers transcend the sport. So to me, what you did was not about skating, but it was about the idea of going for it.

Like, just wow, like that guy really cares. He's really going for it. He's taking risk, you know, his courage. It's cool. There's like bigger ideas that you can attach to that.

You can use in other ways. I don't give you an example. I think recently you talked about how you're skating, you broke your femur and you had this great tweet about like coming back and just trying to do a kickflip again. And then I think the way you said it was like, it was so satisfying when you finally were able to do it, coming back from the injury, you're older now. And like, this is a trick that you could have done in your sleep before, but now it's hard.

And it was so satisfying to pull it off and you're like, find your kickflip. And you know, I'm not skating, but I could take that and I can use it. I could find that right now. That was inspiring. Yeah.

Well, I think it was more I had a bad recovery when I broke my leg. I my bone actually moved out of place. It was it had been set with a titanium rod and I just got back out there too soon. So I kind of sabotaged the healing. Eight months later, I had to have a reset again and redone again.

So I never really even got to the kickflip stage and that first go around. And then when I got a reset and I started to do a proper recovery and wait enough time. When I did it, it was so hard. Like it was so, you know, scary, painful. It was ugly.

Like it's not a kickflip you want to promote. It was just more like I did a terrible sloppy one, but I did it. And I think that's what I was trying to convey is like, find your kickflip. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be the dream that you have set for yourself, but yet to that stage.

Cause then there's more to offer. There's more to get to after that. Can you kind of give a rundown of what like the Tony Hawk Empire is right now? We had Rob on Rob Yodrick, a while ago and we've become buddies with him and you guys seem similar where you have like it appears as though you have like a fantasy factory, like you have the warehouse or the ramp and you got a team there. What's the whole business now?

Well, Birdhouse Skateboards is my first company that I started in 1992. I've got a Birdhouse board right now, by the way. Oh, thank you. You're keeping us alive. And then I do a lot of speaking engagements.

Kind of like Rodney. That's what Rodney's bread and butter is now. Really? And so I'm doing a lot of those. I do.

We have a charity, a skipper project. We have Hawk shoes back in the mix. We have Hawk clothing as well. And we do a lot of licensing. We have our own video production company, 900 Films, who have done stuff with.

Like look at death. Pretty much anything that you've seen of me out there, Cunall Ridge wall and stuff like that. It's done 300 films and also just skate content. And then I have my ramp. I mean, really, that's the pinnacle of the office.

I have my ramp. What does that mean? That's like I have my own half. I have my own half. I have my own half.

I have my own half. I have the warehouse of the office. Like that literally when I hang up with you guys, I'm going there to skate. I'm not going there for a meeting. I'm not going there for some sort of pitch or concept.

It's I'm going there because I want to skate. But I think you've done some good angel investments too, right? Yeah. I've definitely gotten lucky in that I get to know some of the main Silicon Valley players that I've met through the years and they've invited me to invest in some stuff that I was interested in and probably wouldn't have had a way in. What are some big ones?

Nest, blue bottle, well, liquid death, but they're still trying to figure out what they're doing. Events.com, I think it's about to go public and a bunch of others. And I'm still holding on to you. DocuSign is one of them. DocuSign, yeah.

That's amazing. Do you, you know, when you, when you kind of think about, because it looks like you did a bunch of different business ventures, some work, some normal as an entrepreneur. Sure. Yeah. If you think back now, like what was common about the ones that worked and what was common about the ones that didn't do, do you find a through line or kind of a signal there that you can now look out for more?

Not always. No, I mean, I would say restaurants have been the riskiest, but also I can't stay away. What did you do? What have you done? I invest in a few, some didn't work.

What one specifically, Counter-Burger? I don't know if you guys have ever been there, but they started a few chains. They started a few in San Diego and I invested in two of them and that didn't work. But currently chicken hawk is our Nashville hot chicken restaurant. It's here in Encinitas that I'm super proud of.

And it's, you know, the menu speaks for itself. The people love the vibe. It's the vibe is like 90s skate. We have a bunch of videos playing. I have a bunch of my sort of trophies and artifacts on display there.

But I would say what has worked is if it's something that I am truly passionate about and that I can contribute in more ways than just money, those seem to be the ones that do well enough and the people behind it. I mean, that's what it is. It's just like, you know, there's sort of a dream team of people that I know. And if they tap me to be involved in something, even if something I know nothing about, I'm in and then not those don't always work either. But for the most part, their success rate is unparalleled.

You're a huge birdhouse fan. But Rob, when he was on, he was like, man, skateboarding, particularly decks. Like it's a really hard business. Like the margins are small. And if I remember correctly, decks have been like $60 for like 20 years.

Like the price has always been the same. They're still 60 bucks. No, it's $14 there, $60. Can you tell us the origin story of it? And what was like the peak in terms of how big it was and what's it ever even good?

Even at its peak? Yeah, well, the first few years of birdhouse were pretty bleak. In fact, I had a partner at the time, Perry Willender, who was also a pro skater. And he, we had some heavy discussions, I would say, within the third or fourth year of being in business that we can't keep cutting our salary for one. But we definitely can't lose money.

I got lucky that he had a business degree and he was able to keep it afloat. And then when the X game started, we saw an uptick of interest, which actually brought us into finally being profitable around 97, 98. And then when the video game was released, I do remember having this conversation with them, too, where I said, you know, we got to include our skateboards in the game as options. And he said, well, they should be paying us. And I was like, they don't have any money.

You know, they were throwing money around at the time. And also I disagree because I feel like this could be the ultimate marketing tool. Once it gets out there, people will know what birdhouse is. And a lot of the, you know, some of the skaters in the game were birdhouse riders, of course, but also because I believe they were some of the best of the time. And that is what happened when that game got released.

Our sales went ballistic. I mean, those were the those were the heyday of birdhouse in terms of recognition, in terms of the consumers wanting it, probably 99 to 2005ish was sort of the peak. And, but it kept it going all through the years, even through the harder times, you know, through being creative, doing licensing, trying to supplement the paying riders through other licensing of my own, because I still love it. You know, it's not it's yes, rubbed right. It is not a profitable business.

But I don't care. Hey, I don't know if you saw this story about Novak Jocovitch. And it was I think it was Jocovitch. Some either him or one of the other top players and he was in a slump or he was kind of falling out of love with the sport and his coach or whatever had a great conversation with him, which was like, you know, when you when you got into this and you were at your peak, you know, was it because you were winning? Was it because you wanted these titles?

Was it? What was the thing? He's like, no, I just love to swing the racket. And he's like, he still love to swing the racket. I love to swing the racket.

Well, then you should go out there and swing the racket and he like got back on form and went back to the top and kind of like rediscovered the love of the game. Had did you did you have moments like you said, like half of the spot, I'm going to go skate. It seems like you never I never lost my interest in skating. Not once. In fact, at some point, all of the other stuff I was doing, especially when the video game was was hitting, was just distracting from my actual skates.

I'm and I had to schedule it out. And I remember like there was a video that these guys wanted me to be in and I thought it was important. It's like a more core video, but but it was like they were offering me to have a little section in it. And I was looking at my schedule and I was like, I have, I have from 1 PM to 2 PM next Thursday. That's all I can give you.

And I remember thinking like this kind of sucks. That's how I have to schedule my skating. It used to be, I just did it when I wanted to. I learned to shift that priority through later years. Um, I mean, all kinds of ways mostly to spend time with my family, but also to find time to skate in a meaningful way, not just for a video.

Hey, I want to ask you about internet culture because I grew up watching like 411 videos and like basically Sean, like before the internet, like there was magazines, like Thrasher and then there was Transworld and they would put out, I don't think Thrasher did it, but these companies and audio and Birdhouse would put out these skate videos quarterly, annually, or they would have like monthly video. It was basically a video magazine and you'd have to go to the skate shop and you'd have to buy it and it was all word of mouth and it was awesome because you start falling in love with these skaters because they would show personality. Like it was almost like a combination of skate video, music video and home video. And then eventually occasionally it'd be stunts, which is how Jackass kind of came to be, but it was really cool because it was like sort of like vlogging before YouTube came around and it was very impactful to me.

And then there was like Zines like Thrasher, which is a magazine that's still around. They were, they were pretty amazing. And it's sort of like when YouTube, it was first e-bombs world and then YouTube, but when it started getting popular, I remember thinking, this is just a day videos. This is like what I like, like it was very, it was so interesting how this like subculture, DIY culture, it didn't directly become mainstream, but it definitely influenced the thing that influenced the thing. You know what I mean?

Oh, for sure. I think that, yeah, skating, it was just, it was just a bunch of ragtag creative people trying to find an outlet and it's funny. You said Zine, someone just gave me this. This is my Zine I created in 1982. That's awesome.

And my friend had one copy of it. Um, and that's what we did. Like we, this is before, you know, there were no skating magazines. So I just created one. So what's in that?

What would be in it? Mostly pictures of my friends skating at the local park, Delmar. I even like fake some ads. Like I made any ad of independent writers, it didn't pay me anything to do this. In fact, my brother worked at a newspaper at the time.

I used all of their resources to make these happen. And then you would distribute them where I put them on display at the skate park. Cause at that time, Delmar Skate Ranch was the only park open in Southern California. So I just put them on display and I think that I sold them for 50 cents. And at one point, the skate park manager said, Hey, do you want the money for your magazines?

And I have like $30 and I was so excited. Well, did you, did you meet any of the early internet company guys, like, like the, like YouTube or anything like that? Because it seems like there would have been a lot of crossover between I said, the one, the one guy I met in those early days was Kevin Rose. Cause he was a hardcore skater when he was doing dig and he actually got me to go to my first comic con because he wanted to do an interview with me. And it's funny because I didn't say Diego and I avoided comic con like the plague because of all the traffic, but he and I got close and he's the one who led me into blue ball.

That's a good hookup. You said you, you do like corporate speaking or you do speaking gigs. What's the main message you try to get across at those? Well, I kind of, it depends on what it is. If it's a keynote, I'll take people through my story for the most part and try to give some examples of turning points and decision making.

But also I find tune it to what their theme is. Right. So I'll pick specific stories to lean into depending on what their messaging is. And then sometimes I just do what they call fireside chats, like with the mediator. I'll take questions from the audience.

That's more fun for me because you can go different places with that and on different tangents. Is there anything that you're going to look forward to now in terms of like business or in terms of like accomplishments that you haven't done yet? What's giving you up at night? Oh, wow. Yeah, I don't have like lofty goals really.

I just trying to keep it moving. I'm still skating. So I think that that's probably as ridiculous as it sounds when I'm closing it on 60 here that I still want to learn some echrix. But like I tried to trick yesterday and I'm going to go back at it today. It's not it's not some high impact spinning move, but it's something that gives me joy and incentive.

But but in terms of more life stuff, I mean, we have a grandchild now and that is the I understand why people gush about being grandparents because that is the most fun thing ever. And so I want to make time to be available to him and and also to still provide for a family. So I'm trying to find that that's always the challenge, but I'm up for it. I've been kind of depressed over the last 12 months when I go out and skate now. It takes so much longer to warm up, like to get my hips warmed up.

It's crazy. And then every time I'll tell you, well, when you when you close in on 58, some days you just don't warm up. You don't get there. That's what you have to look forward to. Just pack it up.

Like, no, you don't pack it up. You just have to take whatever you got that day. You have to take and be like, all right, that's all I can get. Like I used to go and I'm like, I have to try one new trick. And now I like I can't get hurt because I got to lift my kids up later today.

And so like if I feel pressure, it takes forever to get my hips activated and warmed up. It sucks, man. It sucks. It's the only time that I felt old is skating. I, well, I feel you there, but but also I do have some techniques for warming up pre skating that that have helped me in my last five years for sure that I can share with you.

But maybe this is the next, the next thing. This is the next tunnel on Pro Skater. It's a skating for aging video series that you create straight to VHS, maybe. And we just distributed it to the tens, tens of people out there who are 40 plus skaters that are trying to still do. But what my friends, pro skater was a pro skater in the nineties.

He actually asked me, like, do you have any tips for sciatica? And I sent him all my stretches. I do before I skate, like I set my phone up and like, here's this one. This one makes you homes are out. Dude, I'm not joking.

I need that. All right. Here. Well, you want to see what I know. You're ready?

Give it to us. This is the first one. Can you see me right here? Yeah. All right.

Yeah. You know, one knee, looking forward, everything is straight through your back, even your next you're trying to push upward with your head and your neck, chin down. And then you hit hands out, twist them out, keep them twisting, keep pushing out like this. OK, all that tension for 30 seconds. Right.

Are you leaning forward? Everything. Now, yeah, you can do it. Do it the other one 30 seconds before your hips. You want to do one outward too, like this.

Oh, there you go. OK. I'm going to do that. Not that's not like the quickest one. I'm going to go to Riverside the skate park and sometimes I go to Tomkins, which Sean in New York City, Tomkins, it's kind of like it's a little hardcore.

Like the guys are can be rough. They're really good. I'm going to do that. I'll be like, guys, Tony, Tony told me, like, it's OK. I don't know if that's going to get you the leverage that you think it is, but say either way, I tend to do them outside of the skate space and then I come in more and more like that.

I'm already wearing a helmet. So I'm older than everyone. I'm wearing a helmet. So I already get like a little luck. I already got a little luck.

Why is Tony's Foundation building huge stretching areas and all the parts that are building? But I but I feel you and that like you're that you're when I go to a skate park, I usually go before 10 a.m. Because that's the time when it's crusty old dudes, full pads and you know, they're not they're they're stoked. You're they're they're they're not going to give you a hard time or anything or it's parents with little kids. Yeah.

So that's to me, that's those are the prime hours, like like eight to 11 a.m. The skate park and Sean one of the fun I like having Sean here because I can explain skating. One of the fun parts when your kid is when you do streetscading, you go to like corporate buildings and you jumped out of the stairs and handrails and stuff. And it's you always eat the police call. And so part of the culture is kind of like avoiding getting that done to you and like the confrontation.

I don't do that at all anymore because I'm like, I don't want someone to take a photo where I look stupid. I don't want to confrontation. So I'm I'm soft in the cream cheese now. It's only skate parks. Also, I don't want to look.

But to your advantage, there are way more skate parks than ever. Yeah, it's way better. Street obstacles. So you're living in the best timeline. But that was like the most fun as a kid was skating until you get the police called and running from the cops and going to the next.

So many tickets. What would it take to be like trespassing? Um, I got I got to take it for skating on the boardwalk of the beach in Oceanside for 150 bucks in 1990. That's ridiculous. And I paid it to avoid going to court to try to fight it because I was like, I guess you can't skate on the boardwalk.

I thought this is a California. I thought like we were living the dream. Have you been arrested? No, I got I got a speeding ticket in Georgia. This is around the same time, like 92 ish and I mean, I was I literally rented a Geo Metro.

I got a speeding ticket for going 70 in a 55 and the guy looked at my license and immediately like his whole vibe changed because of this from California. And he's like, Oh, I'm taking this guy down. And he goes, Well, you're from California. I can't write you a ticket. You're gonna have to come to the the sheriff's department and put me in a holding cell.

Wow. For 25. And then well, he just he just said like he couldn't process it. Whatever it was, whatever it's excuse was, he couldn't process. He couldn't process a driver's license from California.

And I had to pay cash to get out and I was like, well, how do I get cash? And luckily there was someone with me who was one of our team riders and I handed him my ATM card. I said, just go get as much as you can out of an ATM, please right now. And so he had to drive into this little town, get whatever I could get, 200 bucks, come back and I paid the fine. Let's go.

I think you got hustled, my friend. It felt like a shakedown. Yeah, it's like when you're out of strip club and they want to give you a lap and I said, take you straight to the ATM. I didn't go in the back. I mean, it wasn't.

But yeah, so to answer your question, was I in jail? Kinda? Well, no, no, we'll take that as a yes. I got to say, we've done like a thousand episodes of this podcast. You are one of my favorite guys to ever have on you.

You are. Oh, I appreciate that. It's fun. Hang super humble. Just a good time and I really appreciate this.

Like this was a lot of fun for us. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me. And Sam, I want to compliment you for hiding how exciting this is for you. I know you let a little bit of it out, but like Sam is like, you know, he's gonna have to call a doctor after this.

It's lasting for more than four hours here. So Sam, good job. Keep doing those 360 flips. Don't lose them. I'm going to try and do them until I'm 50.

And it was, you know, you're my hero as a kid and I still look up to you. So I definitely was getting on the inside talking to you. So I really appreciate it. I appreciate it. I bet.

That's, well, thank you. That's it. That's a pot. All right, let's take a quick break. I want to tell you about marketing school.

It is a podcast that's part of the HubSpot podcast network and it is run by Neil Patel and Eric Sue. And these guys are both marketers who are running businesses. And so if you want real world tactics from practitioners who are actually out there in the field doing it, this is the podcast for you check it out wherever you get your podcast.