Demons

Diane it's 8 30 p.m. Welcome to another episode of Twin Peaks Peaks. We're gonna be covering demons a case episode 6 of season 2 Yep, I'm Matthew Olson And I'm Ashley Grant the other one of your hosts cool. Ashley do you have any wait?

Sorry? I don't want to forget this for clarification last week's episode which came out on October 1st. I guess yeah, that was recorded The weekend prior and since then we were very sad to hear about Catherine Colson's passing Catherine played the log lady on Twin Peaks and We're very sad But it was touching to see the outpouring of sympathetic messages and so forth from the cast and crew many of whom are working on the new season right now and Yeah Yeah, that was that was really sad news to like wake up to Sources are saying that she was slated to appear in season three so obviously You know tight they're running a tape ship over there And we don't really know what those plans might have looked like and what they'll look like now. Yeah If if some scenes were filled with her that's that's obviously great But if not, I guess as far as you know has any bearing on season 3 if there were plans to include her in the show time run I just hope that I hope more than them being able to like recover or something that they just you know Something in her memory Versus as part of the show because she's really great and she's one of the like most iconic characters of the show and I mean in her memory and also just because it's always great is Halloween season and it's really easy to put together really kick Ass log lady costume.

So I hope for Catherine that we see an influx this year of great log ladies That's that's I think I'll be a cool way. I don't know That would be really cool. I suggested to my housemate and her boyfriend because he wants to go as a log lady And I think she should be the log Okay, she's small. She's like logs eyes are relative to him.

Wait, wait, is this what I think it is? I've not yeah, I've never heard a person's stature I like said this to her the other day. Oh, right. Yeah, I guess you I guess you put that out there That's the whole thing.

Yeah, they're approximately log size. Yeah, that's not a thing people say But that would be that would be like a really good couple costume for them specifically And I guess anyone else without height disparity in their relationship. Yeah, also another great one would be Andy and Lucy That's true, but you got to get that tintin flick of Andy's I think I could do it. I think if I shave the sides of my head down closer, I could do a good Andy I don't know.

I think I figured my costume. I was listening to a different podcast today, not our own podcast As though you like listen to our podcast. I haven't I haven't listened back to this one I listened back to an episode the other show I do to see if it was like if it was actually like paced well And I'm afraid to go back and listen to one of our sprawling two hours So I was listening to a podcast and on it the hosts were like adults like adults shouldn't Participate in Halloween. They shouldn't have costumes.

It's so fucking annoying one of them said one of the compared Halloween to being straight pride Which I get but I want to say I'm excited. It's the spooky season. It's time to time to punkin down Not it's pumpkin spice lottery that just like get real I mean, it's appropriate for Twin Peaks. Get real spooky.

I know I really like that characterization of Halloween is straight pride I'm gonna use that now. Yeah, I figured you like that I wasn't I was thinking about not bringing it up on the show to just pair it with some pretty else on a podcast but Yeah, I knew you like it. So there you go. That's your gift today straight pride.

Thanks friend You can hate on Halloween if you want to with that, I guess Also relevant To the season to the time that we're in right now. I think they're done filming in Washington or they should be yeah It seems like this is this would be about the time this would be about the time so Twin Peaks, you know season three production They haven't halted yet. I don't know what the reason would be I mean They could they could have like a flexible arrangement to be waiting for like particular weather or anything But probably probably miss our boat to go back there and see anything But there obviously can't be done with filming. So I wonder how much I mean I think they're just gonna move production California Yeah, I wonder how much outdoor production is gonna take place in California if any Because what I would have thought is that they would have front loaded all of the exterior shots for while they were in Washington And all the interiors would really be in California That's what I'm thinking too But they could they could do a kind of mishmash like it's eventually the series ended up being that because you know Establishing shots would still be the Washington footage and then new exteriors would be California But I wonder if they're really going for you know I don't even think all the interiors for firewalk with me were done in Washington But they did like a lot of on-site shooting for the film So I wonder if they're trying to do more in the vein of the pilot and film or if they were just like well If we're already make over the diner, we might as well shoot at the diner and so forth.

So yeah, yeah anyway Done with Washington probably I haven't heard anything. We'll find out. Yeah, so let's talk about this A lot a lot of donuts though. Oh god.

Yeah, what are your initial thoughts it turned to Donna for me I Just you know, they could have written her out of the entire series and I think everything would have been paced much better I think this episode would have held my interest more Just written James out to leave Maddie to just do some detective work Maybe she could hang out with Shelley and Bobby and she would be more exciting. Yeah. Oh my god I'm not a little bit better times you really did that. Oh my god.

She was hanging out with you God yeah, Donna. I have a note here, which is again Donna fails to get diary Third attempt third time not the charm. Sorry. That was a low hanging group.

Yeah third time in two episodes. I think and just utterly fails I'm just I Really don't like the opening to this episode mainly because Harold has cracked and the way Harold I think Lenny von Dolan or as you call him young I think Lenny is doing his best here with a poor hand which is that he is just supposed to be losing his shit and being menacing While also posing like really no threat to these two girls at this point again They have seen Donna has seen that they could just run outside and that'll be it that'll be endgame She knows that yet. They're still like me like oh no. What's gonna happen?

He's and he's just sad in a way that is like just a tad to the show plays around with it It's just a tad too melodramatic and soapy because I don't like or maybe I just I'm hating on Donna so much I can't see why Harold fell in love with all of them. I think that storyline is just a vortex of like extreme soap opera John my it's very Degrassi the next generation is it. I've never seen Degrassi. Well Degrassi is a teen soap opera.

I guess yeah Yeah, how old do you think Harold is? Good ask question How old is young Dustin Hoffman Ashley? Okay, he looks like Dustin Hoffman in the graduate, but Dustin Hoffman was like deceivingly old in the graduate So I'm gonna go with he's meant to be mid 20s. I could see mid 20s I So we know for a fact that I mean come up I guess in a couple different places or a couple different times like Laura I mean, I guess you're seeing James if Bobby but saw a lot of older men.

Okay, so Lenny Von Dolan is age 56 now Wow only 56 I would guess I would guess older so wait what year was he born this we're gonna have to do some math here I'm doing the math right now. It's fine. Okay. Wait while you're doing math.

Can I tell you what my mom said about Harold? Yes, so Ari that tool he uses to claw his face at the end of the previous episode. Oh, yes good good Okay, so here's what my mom said she said that is a tool that you use to break up hard ground So here are her two theories regarding that either Harold is not in a glorified and he's doing some outdoor gardening because you can't use that tool Indoors according to my mom, okay, or I like the word is telling Theory to he runs outside really quickly claws at the ground and runs back inside Because as my mom pointed out that tool is dirty. It is not clean which is also gross is from a medical standpoint the mystery of the claw so see if this one gets resolved so like if you think he's not in a glorified and this this tool was to tell and Comment if you think that he is running outside and then running inside in the process of using this outdoors only gardening tool Please do also when he was about 30 when this is film.

Okay, so that's about okay That is about the age that doesn't often was when he got there you go. Hey, um Yeah, I don't know where's going with the older men point other than like Harold is like he's he is he is not he's not Be hanging out with teens at all or fall especially like fall in love with Donna all of a sudden I've gone as terrible terrible distraction kissing. What is the allure of Donna? What is it is it the fact that Lara Flynn Boyle thought that her storyline it needed a little more spice Is that the allure of Donna the show fucking knows that Donna and James suck Case of point the scene immediately following this episode immediately following this event at the start the episode where James and Donna Apologize to one other fucking just you and I kicks in in the background again, and they like Reignite their love for one another.

It's also like it's so bad What was the point of them like briefly breaking up or like whatever like that lasted for? One and a half episodes which is roughly one and a half days like I think I think I don't know if it's the director Leslie Linka Glader or I didn't take down now if who wrote this one Harley Payton Harley Payton But I think there are definitely people involved high up in the production who make the kind of decisions that make James and Donna that much more Inceipherable to highlight to the wary viewer the not star struck teen lover viewer that these two suck. They're the worst Yeah, oh my gosh like it's way more exciting to see Audrey doing nothing in this episode than to see James and Donna do anything in this episode I will I will point out that this episode opens with like some of the most prominent like Twin Peaks ladies in peril Yeah, it's really that the last episode kind of ends on that note that being you know Audrey Matty Donna Shelly's not doing a ton. She's not doing a ton.

She's doing some stuff. Shelly schemin some stuff Shelly schemin, but like Bobby is the lead skimmer. Yeah, I guess yeah, but so we're kind of at a low for like the ladies of Twin Peaks Mm-hmm at this point. I think I think one lady in particular gets a fucking great power move scene this episode So should we talk about Audrey though Audrey now safely in the book house.

Yeah, yeah I think there's only the second appearance of the book house. There it is. There you go. The book house It's a real place not a big good place.

No. Yeah, oh wait I did have one more note on opening scene. Okay, okay James Okay, I had forgotten how the scene ended so when I was first watching it like James grabs Maddie and I was like Oh, okay, this makes sense He's kind of chosen Maddie over Donna and then they get outside and he's kissing Donna. I thought like when you ran in there He was just like screwed on a she's on her own.

That's just what we all wished That's just what would have been more interesting in my opinion, but also mixed signals across the board from James Yes, totally So you mix signals this show is sending mixed signals as to whether or not it wants to take Cooper and Audrey as a thing seriously Yeah, okay, she's waking up and she's like she definitely says daddy at one point. Yeah, I was like no Yeah, I don't yeah, I don't know how to how to take that, but I think I think Sherlin and Kyle like play that scene. It's like it's very like tender and it's like it gives me a sense of like even though The fucking like handling an apple plot. I think it's bad Like I do get like this sense of relief and safety now like back in the book house Cooper and Truman are there Audrey can go back to being an active character this show now And I don't have to hate scenes at one eye jacks because we're not gonna get them right Maybe also Audrey like the character is okay is going to be okay and going to pull through it seems But more I may be said the relief by getting is now good Don't have to be able to spotlight anymore.

It's finally over six episodes in the season. Yeah, thank God I do want to point out Sherlin Fenn Acting semi-conscious and like incapacitated more alluring and has much more of a presence than Donna trying to seduce James at the sheriff station Just like exponentially better acted more interesting. You're saying you're saying Donna's Christmas Donna sunglasses does nothing for you No, she has nothing for me actually Okay, if Here's something that I feel like episode one of five asked this you would be like oh no question you would have an answer But now I'm gonna ask you okay And I think maybe this what our experience and doing the podcast as far as changes Shelly or Audrey I'm kind of team Shelly right. Yeah All the basic twin PC was love Audrey, but we're coming around to team Shelly Imagine imagine hit us up.

You're a fave. We love Sherlin too, but Shelly's but Shelly really Preeping up into my heart and like her and Bobby together and usually I do not care about heterosexual couples at all But like their draw lines so beautiful. This is I think the second Episode in a row you mentioned your doll lines, but I agree Who boy but we have to keep talking about Donna and James Do we because they're in this episode? Truman lays the smackdown and calls out their bullshit.

I really only don is there, but you like refers to James like if James is fucking Around on this again, I'm gonna like have a neck like thank God We have anything to say other than like hooray, okay one question that's been nagging me for a while Why keep two diaries? Why does Laura have two diaries and I kind of have an explanation? But like how do you how do you justify this plot choice? I feel like right now.

It's like unjustifiable, right? Yeah, like I think this is something that Is sort of the afterthought right like we were talking about Josie's suddenly background Revelations maybe coming as an afterthought as a response to season one I think somewhere along the line There was never a plan for a second diary in season one and then they realized that shit Laura has a lot to say we already went through the tapes and the diary we shouldn't have had a diary being the pilot What about a secret diary? That makes sense and it doesn't it really doesn't a lot of effort and then you can twist things Maybe in your in your head to make that make sense, but yeah I think what like kind of makes sense to me is the idea that Laura would be keeping a diary that relates to kind of The darker aspects of what's going on with her right and keep that separate from The like kind of mundane dark aspects of what's happening to her if that makes sense There's like the the the spoopy thing that everyone's kind of trying to figure out at this point And then there's kind of like Laura was into cocaine and she like had an ad in flesh world Yeah, and like that the spoopy thing is She's got a she's got to hide that even deeper especially because I think we're starting to see that There is reason to believe that like Someone could have access to her diary. Yeah It definitely I mean it's a literal Like embodied division of the the layers of secrecy Laura adopted is having two diaries Like it works as a as a way to reinforce that theme, but it just seems like so much trouble Yeah, also to me someone who kept a diary or journal keeping one seems hard enough Yes, yes, you know what I would have believed if this were if this was a bunch of like pages Born out of a real diary.

I would have believed that okay But the idea that there are two separate books and she's writing separate entries in each too much for me Okay, I can feel the same. I wonder if this was made 15 years later if Laura would have a blog and then a secret deep web blog Yes, I think that's exactly what would happen Just get you what is Twin Peaks on TV today. Oh wait I'm thinking about like Twin Peaks like like an updated version where like all of the lore shit is happening on the deep web No, it sounds really cool and then like that Cooper's got to like investigate the deep web. Yeah cyber crimes unit It's cyber crimes like the deep web is so creepy and weird.

Yeah the black got lodged Okay I'm gonna poor man's copyright this whole idea right now. Oh god I mean we're just getting into we're just getting into the killing territory or Veronica Mars It literally any of the shows that have like lived it have Lee from Twin Peaks territory and then updated it for Any dead girl show just throw in some internet. Yeah. Yeah, okay.

Let's I mean you can have your dead man's cup Or was it dead man's copyright? No poor man's copy or man's copy right dead man's switch. That's a totally different thing. Okay Let's talk about Ben horn Do you want to know what my next note is what is it our Ben and Josie fucking Because they have some incredible chemistry in this scene they do Fuck Richard Damer and Joan Chen this scene fucking electric.

Yes. I love it. So much. It's like a heightened like more evil Bobby and Shelley Mmm.

Yes, and like I think Catherine and Ben were like supposed to be that fell flat this way better chemistry the Prior to this scene though before we continue to catch about it and get into the implications of it and how just how deep into the pre Laura shenanigans and Twin Peaks it gets into Josie is being forced to leave Twin Peaks because of this guy we haven't met called Mr. Eckerd and he's sent his representative and Josie is It is it is I feel like it is blown past very quickly like the show shows as much of it as maybe it's comfortable to or maybe you know It doesn't want to show it, but Josie's abused. Mm-hmm. And I think this is something that me just being an ignorant Dumb boy viewer before now was was just willing to blow pass like oh Josie's in this bad situation And it didn't like I've been having a hard time now thinking about the Josie plot as we have as being kind of an after thought Kind of tacked on and and seeing you know out of place having sympathy But this like even this small blip like reminds me that like this is a character who it's weird because your plot line feels to rush Mm-hmm.

It does and this scene especially like is where I can like actually be like no This is a bad situation. This isn't her decision and for all the bad things She's done like no way and how does she deserve this whereas before I was just willing to be like oh Josie's criminal dealings and her relationship with the treatment like I don't care for any of that but the combination of this weird handling of like the of Actually showing demonstrating the stakes of the situation. She's in combined with how great her scene with Ben Horn is after I mean I could say like team Shelley all day, but seriously it brings me around to Josie side more than I think I've been on past viewings I don't know if you have any thoughts on how they handle that or whether or not You just want to talk about the fucking crazy high stakes game that Ben and Josie are engaged in but I mean It's strange to think that like the first shot of Twin Peaks is Josie and then from the pilot It's she just plummets in terms of importance And it's sad John Chen is a great actress she like giving her like good material to work with that's not just like English It's my second language. She kills it has this as this scene with Ben demonstrates I would have loved to see Josie like like kind of be like the big bat of Twin Peaks that would have been really cool Because we you know she's in this scene.

She's top Ben Horn. Yeah, she walks away with her $5 million. Yeah So Ben has dirt Josie has dirt on Ben, but let's let's recount like this is ostensibly Josie was sort of sent to America to do some of this criminal dealing and I'm not sure as a viewer how much is at the behest of this expert guy but so she Offed Andrew with the assistance of Hank right in order to get the insurance Or like in order to take control of the mill and then figure out a way to sell it or get the insurance money I think so and I think wrapped up in that I mean, there's just like obviously the criminal implications like you're working with Hank also then that means Josie's partially responsible for Hank's manslaughter But I guess it is it revealed how what exactly Josie has they say exactly what she has on Ben like does Josie know When I jacks thing that's the thing is that's not clear Because he knows about Ben's like business bad dealings and his criminal relationships with other like killers and low-life But I don't think he pretty explicitly implies that he you know has evidence linking her to her husband's death Andrew Packard said Yeah, but we don't get any clarification on what she could possibly have on him that tops murder Yeah Because just having sex with Catherine doesn't go I mean, I guess it would also be like they conspired on Catherine's murder Yeah, I guess totally what it is. I guess yeah is that they you know I want to believe that there's something else because then they just both go down if if they'll bury us side by side Fuck and love that fucking love no, I think there's like there's in that one There's in the idea of like her black mailing him with Catherine Oh, there's way too much wiggle room for him to like reframe himself as an economy Sure sure cooperate and I like get her life in prison and he gets some kind of deal You know I agree, but if it is just a Catherine thing it makes the delbaria side-by-side line I just love that line her delivery.

It makes it you know it fits well with that That's true I want to believe that like their business feelings go really far back though I want to believe that like she knows some terrible stuff about that There's a there's a prequel series floating around where Josie and banner just fucking up twin peaks for everyone and Pete's there for like Most of the episodes He is a solid man of that series. Oh my god. I'm poor man's cock-reading this whole concept You can't do that I think this is explicit you're explicitly you know you're doing is you're reserving the right to write your own twin Peak's fan fiction along these lines, and you know what I don't think anyone's gonna challenge you on that Whatever I just racked up two copyrights. That's not Look, I know you love entertainment, but that's not quite how this works I think your edunist needs to be tempered with some legal I do that all day.

It's fine. Okay. All right I mean I got notes all over All over the book we haven't talked about yet who our faves Bobby and Charlie yes, I mean we have plenty of time to get to that but let's do it now Why not that dudes platsuit not a bobbing Shelley comment, but the dude from the state helping him out helping them air quotes out Is that a look is that a look Ashley? I mean you're the arbitrator of men's where looks is not a look it looks real bad That's a look if you are a member of the mighty mighty boss bones and in no other situation Are you allowed unless you're in a scob and that particular scob and even you're not allowed to wear a plaid suit just period Also, and you know why we haven't been having looks lately Audrey's been wearing the same outfit for six episodes.

I didn't give Audrey a change of clothes I know and and you know Josie really hasn't been giving looks either because she's basically been written out of the series What did you think of the outfit blackie sister have on at the cowgirl outfit? No, that is not a look okay. That is like that is like if you want to troll like streetwear photography you wear that No one wears that seriously. Okay.

Um Yeah, so this also addresses our question from several episodes ago. How are they gonna get that much money off of Leo? I forgot that they get like nothing they get nothing 10 hundred bucks and apparently show you quick her job for this It makes sense that she would have to like do that to prove that she was really gonna care for him full-time, but not a good choice No, no, what's normally gonna do? Yeah, how is normal fairing rely on hey?

Why have they broken up the greatest friendship into in peeks? How does it make you feel? Very distressed because now the only friends we have in to impeaks are Maddie and Donna and their terrible friends All friends are not good friends each other. You haven't seen Mike and Bobby pound around.

I mean does Mike aka snake exist anymore? I think he moves he's kicking around. I'm sure he's in background. Um Anyway, uh the party scene.

I okay mad gen so cute in this scene When she just like is repeating whatever Bobby says and he's like this is our way of saying hey and it's just like hey So cute to me um God there's that part is everything so many things to say about the party first off they rated They must have rated pin pieces only party supply store To get that many hats and streamers like all of that $700 on party supplies I wonder if Dina came up with a hey put a hat on each one of your ears Because it's uh you should have gotten a bonus right on the spot for that brilliant brilliant piece added some kind of creative credit someone should have gotten credit for that Yeah, they raid the party store. Um Like I love the the unspoken aspect of this which is that this is later in the day they find out that they're only getting 700 a month for Leo's fucking awful murderous wife beating ass Yeah, so what do they do they get bottle jack get really drunk and then decide to raid the party store like this had to have Around like Bobby didn't just go home. It's like hey, dude. Where's all the party stuff?

And it's like well son, uh, you know what I really think that parties are a great time to come together and celebrate Okay, dad whatever later like it didn't happen. They had to go to store and buy all this and buy a cake Because they got so sloshed and so like fuck it that they decided to throw this party Where do you think that cake came from? Um, well, I know that in a deleted scene. There's a there's a there's the donut shop in town.

Maybe they also do cakes I don't know I mean how cuz you've been watching maybe the four department store has a Is what I want to believe is that that cake came from the double r that could also be yeah I guess that's obvious answer, but I don't never seen sign it suggesting you cake there So I mean cake pie basically the same thing or not Spoken like someone who doesn't make cake surprise a lot. That was a joke More than I yes, maybe it's just a pie with frosting on it Uh, well, we would know if that was the case because character a fucking heroically faceplants in it Also talk about how air actor race acting has been on point ever since Leo went into this vegetative state Yeah, it's like maybe one day on set Before they nailed down Leo's bot line air today was just like look I can play like completely vacant really well And they're just like holy shit. We have to do something with this Um Yeah, uh faceplants in the cake. Uh the kazoos Um just like the fucking stare he's playing everything perfectly not to mention at one point Well right after face planning dana hauls him back into an up-reposition by Oh my god, oh my god, and a fucking true pro no sign on his face of any feeling whatsoever Amazing incredible.

I hope he was nominated for something But I also okay bobby in this scene bobby just a dragging leo for being a misogynist abusive asshole This is the this is the lynchpan that makes a scene work because if this wasn't headcanon about party stores and drunkenness aside you know that is I mean it's evident they If this scene was just them tormenting this brain dead person It would be like well, that's kind of fucked up but Both fully acknowledged is by way of their like fear of leo like leo's is a As I said like a fucking much-to-ash twirling villain like he's just a bad man So like the fear is based in that but it's also kind of a fear I think of this taboo thing that they're doing which is tormenting someone who is in no position to Like in any way like resist this but it's in full acknowledgement of this person has ruined Shelly's life up to this point Um, and so it walks this fine line between like they're tormenting someone who's disabled and Reminding you that these are two teenagers who are in way over their heads They're about to do it on the table when they realize that that's the worst fucking idea ever And really creepy and weird and also they like maybe deserve this moment like this is this is a much-to-ash-wirling villain This is a really bad man And the worst that's happening to him right now is that his face is ending up in a cake like it's it's slapstick This isn't even probably what he deserves. He probably deserves worse in a car makes sense, but But I think this gets to a question I asked earlier which is like Like how do we handle the idea that like and this isn't ever necessarily everyone's interpretation But the idea that like someone like deserves being disabled Right, which like is like pretty eggless. Mm-hmm. I know that like I feel like on the internet lately I've been seeing a lot of people being like ableist like that's just social justice terms gone crazy But like it's absolutely not it's a very offensive like way to like think of disability to think that it's like Something some kind of like karmic retribution for like doing bad things or like being a bad person Yeah, Leo like if this is like intended as like the the comeuppance, it's weird for that exact reason because He's like he's now completely vacant It's not like like it makes less sense as a narrative choice in terms of like trying to like bring someone down then Then like just sending them the prison or even like just having them be killed like I feel like I do like that He is like in a sense helpless in the same and trapped in a way that is similar to the way that Shelley was trapped But I don't think he had to be like disabled for this to happen.

Yeah, although like obviously that takes a couple more like Levels of like plot thought or whatever, but I think that might have been more satisfying But I do also like seeing Eric array do this vacant performance It would be it would be way way worse if what they had done was oh like it will basically if they were having him play almost any other kind of Affliction like if if he was in any other way trying to portray a impaired Leo You can just like I don't even say it you can imagine all the myriad ways in which both writing and like trying to contrive a situation Which he's like unable to resist You know what Bobby and Shelley want to do to him Or in which he is an actor has to play this thing that he is not Just being so much worse in terms of I mean it would be 100% in line with the mr. Tajmar a situation. Yeah, just completely offensive So yeah, there's like this weird ableist like not even undertone like overtone to the idea of this being what Leo deserves But I think like that's a stance taken by Bobby and Shelley and they're clearly not like in the right necessarily either on it Right and yeah And the show does do a lot to like complicate like that viewpoint on Leo and like Bobby and Shelley's relationship to Leo is like his caregivers Yeah Like we're on team Bobby and Shelley But that is with full knowledge that what they're doing is really bad They are trying to and they're not succeeding either They're trying to live off of this dudes Like trying to live off of the state by exploiting this dude that frankly neither of them, you know If it wasn't for the money would want to be around at all That's a special weird kind of scummy And they're also trying to like be evil in a way that is kind of similar to Leo and they just can't quite rise to that occasion Is this why we like them now? Because they're complicated and we can I think so And unlike so many characters Namely the other teams in Twin Peaks these ones are complicated and it's all like it's all very easily to access Like you know when we talk about Cooper, we kind of have to dig deeper for some of the complicated things about them Yeah, everyone else just very much like lays their emotions and their Problems or whatever very bare for the show Audrey is like super great, but but but Audrey also like doesn't really like To her credit like doesn't get into a situation the same as what Donna and like James do or what shall we bomb you?

I mean the thing is like from pretty much immediately we know that Audrey wants Cooper can't have him But that doesn't that situation like more or less remains static Donna wants to be with James Donna is doing Laura 30 and 10 million different ways James Can't stay with one woman likes his motorcycle. I don't know uh Truman she's doing some lost up doing some Josie stuff Josie's complicated Josie's complicated true Ben Horn Catherine not as complicated Gathering some money doing some evil stuff. So I mean anymore Jerry scenes Yeah, Norma just trying to keep the double R open Honestly like could have been like flashed out way more like the norma hanks up right now could be way more interesting But it's just not and Hank's a fucking joke. Yeah, so I mean I think Of all the characters with Twin Peaks probably the three most Complex interesting characters are Shelley Bobby Josie I think we've just got out Everyone else starts with the same objective and maintains that objective.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well for now Um the swar changes coming in Twin Peaks Uh So we're we're on to next um you got me ideas? Um, do I oh sorry?

I can't I can't hear you very well I can't I cannot hear you very well. Could you repeat that for me? Let's talk about Gordon. Can we talk about Gordon?

Yeah David Lynch not directing not right this episode acting in it Is Gordon he's the best I really like that he really actually didn't direct or write this episode He was like I'm gonna make an acting cameo. Yeah, um, so he was he was the voice of Gordon Earlier, right and maybe based on that alone. I mean that was a throwaway, but now he's here Well, and what's happened is they've kind of just had to write Albert off Yeah, and they were like what are we gonna do who's been here? Where can we get some continuity Gordon Cole?

So is this is this an actual production note like was uh Miguel for unable to return? Um, I didn't see anything that explicitly said as much but very shortly after Twin Peaks He appeared on the Tales of the Crypt in a recurring role All right, it was released in 1991 and he was on the nbc miniseries drug wars, which I had not heard of but starred Benicio del Toro Oh, yeah, so he he had a busy here. Yeah, he does appear in firewalk with me. Uh-huh.

The line Um, the line that Gordon gives as he arrives like almost like implies that he is here to fill the outer role He's like I have the result back from outer. He can't be here right now. It's like, okay. He won't be back I'm sorry.

I can't do the Gordon voice, but um also just a lot of I I hesitate to say fun because we get into that same territory about like ableism and ability But they seem to be they're having fun with the idea of like a person being hard of hearing and like the miscommunications that are happening Yeah, I don't see it as totally means no, it's not the same as Leo It's definitely not on that level but like the idea that we're drawing humor from like Someone's physical preference. Also He's he's the fucking local chief of the fbi his his Disability if you want to call that has in no way impeded his like success as a lawman In fact, he's Cooper's direct superior which Cooper is the best lawman Harry's ever met Which means if this is his period Gordon Cole clearly fucking cream of the crop I mean in the show that might be true and like the characters around him aren't really reacting to what he's saying in a humorous way But like for the audience drawing some kind of humor from like his lion race is what's this about a chihuahua or like Whatever, um like that kind of I think brings into question like how we're like thinking about and writing characters like them true um I just I do want to I I I do feel like it's though played for humor. It's in a way that's not like Ha ha he's hard of hearing like yeah. Yeah, like I feel like it's more just like this is Like it's almost as much as personality and like that being okay as it is like actually but I could be totally wrong here Obviously I can't like I mean it's not like a joke like on him and I think that does make it different But like the humor is generated from the misunderstandings that come from him being hard of hearing Yeah Um can we talk about the way David Lynch pronounces chihuahua which is chihuahua That has nothing to do with anything about any you know, it's he just says it weird Do you see Cooper as a small Mexican chihuahua?

um Let's see do I actually wait, you know You know which chihuahua we know yeah kind of like I can see it with like chickito Chikitos got that there's like wide wise eyes. Shout out to yeah If you're listening to this out there it will beautiful pup you um miss you. I miss you It's been a while longer since I've seen that pup since you have so yeah, uh boy miss that dog Anyway, uh, yeah, I can see it. I could also see um I could see uh cooper is a very is a very docile uh she but she but you knew You can see it.

I can see it. Um I don't know. I can't think of any other twin peach dogs dog comparisons. I kind of don't want to it Could be here for hours doing that.

It's like that episode of parks and recreation. Mm. Yeah, I think so Anyway, um also not a parks and recreation podcast putting pain in that Uh, but this is not the last we're gonna see of gordon coal. It's not thankfully um use a delight though.

Yeah, always a good time You know, he's not having a good time this episode Sheriff Truman true true very talked about how to deal with the fucking mystery teens again You know, there's investigation but with josey leaving Uh, hary is very sad josey. I love you and cultural here And not too much much more to say but I watched the scene and as sad as I was you know for josey and for sheriff Truman I was reminded that it's not too much of a spoiler But what is to come next is sheriff vroom and being a real sad boy Just like real real beat up about this and I was like oh god It's on from one plot line. I'm not a big fan of two another Why do we decide to do a podcast about this show? I don't know actually wait.

Okay. Let's rewind back to when I said that shellian normal with the best friends and twin peeks You know who else we're getting who Truman and cooper? That's true I love the little moment earlier this episode Uh did you pick up on this when they're just returned they're at the book house or maybe they're maybe in a treatment's office or something That's written they've just returned from one of jacks and augerys like safe and sound and Truman tells cooper these best lawmanes ever known and impores on the coffee and it's gotta be like four in the morning But these two are using coffee to cope and to de-stress and have a just a little like bond there's a little bonding moment I love it. Yeah, so Lesson being true.

It should only have storylines with cooper. He should maybe only appear in scenes with cooper Yeah, then we avoid I mean it's a total Watson Sherlock situation. Yeah in a totally totally not like Hammy way I feel like yeah, totally um Shit. Oh god drawing a blank on his name and I've been like so good with that this episode with like having that and then not fucking it up Who plays Truman?

Michael on king Michael on king. He's not in a lot of other things. Yeah, what do you think about? Generally his performance up to this point.

I think that the sad boy arca that has to come I'm like, uh, yeah, but what do you think about the sheriff? I mean he occupies this weird like main character role yet doesn't like move the plot along himself actually Um, I think he's fine like in this role And I would imagine that like at this point in the series the role is really catered to like his abilities and his range and like how he generally Just like plays things as an actor, which I think is definitely true of Harry go as as Andy and I think that might be why we haven't seen Harry go as in a lot of things Uh post Andy Brown and he's been in like two things after this and he was a deputy in both of them weird. I know that yeah, um Like I said, he's fine in this role, but I'm not seeing him like give this incredible range that I could see like being transferred over to another role very easily um Yeah, I I feel like he up to this point in the series has just been like at best a reassuring presence And at worst just like why is why is this dude the sheriff? Like is there anyone well hawkins more qualified hawkin fucking throw knives like a pro.

Yeah, apparently. I don't know why he's out Calling up the pearl lakes records office instead of running the fucking town Look you put you look you want to you want to put this like, you know Deadly caricature and charge the town everybody's gonna get in line real quick No one's gonna be Blabbing about the darkness in the woods. They're just gonna be nice law buying citizens. Hey.

Oh if he had to deal with sheriff hawk No, no way sheriff Truman push over sheriff hawk. He will he will murder you He's not gonna murder you. He's gonna he's gonna lawfully obtain a warrant to search hanks house And then you have evidence lawfully submitted to court and get this dude convicted Well that or he'll just put on the he'll just like do little book house boy tear and then straight up kill it dude with a throwing knife Like he has a limited number of times he can do that with no repercussions Every book house boy gets the murders If you cross that line You're out of club here. He's already out of murders and that's why he can't effectively Governed That's not see this is the valuable head can and we want the book house boys murdering rules Oh boy, okay Where to go from here?

I got notes all over. No, you know what? Everyone doing major breaks is so delightful Do you think he's met Shelley? Do you think shelly's like had dinner at the Briggs place yet?

Oh god? No But do you think that like I think major Briggs would love Shelley? I think I mean I'm imagining the scene with on Davis in my head right now And I'm loving it and I already did it once in the episode But I wish I could just impersonate and embody the kind of send call that don Davis brings to major Briggs at all times Yeah, I mean that'd be great But I don't think they met I think that Bobby's at least smart enough to be like maybe I shouldn't bring my girlfriend To the brain dead dude now Who's also maybe a murderer and so suspected of the murder of my last girlfriend Technically morning because it's been maybe two weeks. It's been about two weeks at this point Which also how many times of Dan's and Donna been on again in this point?

I don't know. It's a very realistic teen relationship in that way It just kind of sucks because they both look like they're clearly in their 20s This is I feel like really the point where like it's not about Laura anymore Like um there was that scene a couple episodes ago where Donna was like, why is everything about you Laura talking to her grave? And at that point like everything was about Laura because she had died like a week ago Yeah, yeah over yourself Donna Jesus But at this point like Laura's death is no longer propelling the plot in the way that it was yeah um This is this is very very very true. Um, can we have a moment for Grape Runner Corner And maybe this time I'll actually put the music in like I said I would Hey didn't do that whoops Nope because I would have to track it down Okay, just fucking break runner corner Uh, and Nadine whoo Um, holy shit.

I just have to say it again This is basically the only thing I want to bring up because it was a very short scene this episode, but Everett McGill's Freaked out face. Yes is I will crack a big grin at scene at any any time any time that face is pulled Um, that's why this scene not all the okay, grape runner corner mode off not all the ad Nadine scenes work for me But they work they work a 110 Advision they work 110 if if Everett McGill pulls that face, you know the face I'm talking about Do I? Yeah, the shock race Um What do you think about where this is being taken right now though because Nadine's storyline? Okay in the context of people who are not in possession of their faculties necessarily what the okay Like we're supposed to think it's funny that Nadine thinks she's a teenager and is just down to get dirty with ed Like that's supposed to be funny and it's it's not it's really bad It's like all kinds of like weird and like weird moral territory That's also just like he also doesn't want to be in this relationship in the first place anymore Like he was just about to come around to maybe loving Nadine and then Nadine came back with him and Is not the same person anymore?

See I don't this is just so cartoonish and like just not medically possible that I just don't have the same It's a bit like all the times in the Flintstones when Fred would get hit with his bowling ball and then become a different person for the whole episode Only these are not cartoon people and there is some some I mean There's a lot of funny shit happening or a lot of supposed to be funny shit happening But there's some dark bad vibes happening all through the town even except like the brain injury explanation But for her super strength the super strength is ridiculous now. We I mean it's also weird because it was exhibited before yes That's what's so weird about it. Like why is Nadine just super strong is it that she is it that like prior to this injury She could control her super strength and now post brain injury. She cannot control her super strength Is this secretly heroes?

Save the cheerleader save the world. Nadine's a cheerleader. This is not a hero's podcast You watch that show Um, I watched part of the first season and then I was like nope too many characters none of them going anywhere. Yeah.

Yeah Also, something though you could probably level against Twin Peaks And lost a number of shows really a number of beloved Mystery type television shows really ambitious shows with great first seasons that just immediately go off the rails with the introduction of additional characters Well, right. I think we've identified a pattern if you if you like these if you like all these shows without reservations You need to really rethink your life and your relationship to television For me to you. You don't have to take me seriously, but you probably should um that was right right on her corner What do you want to be on to? Um, you know, you know, where are we um?

Oh, we see leland like being leland Not like not like distressed post laura's death leland, but like how leland was prior to the pilot. Mm-hmm, which is strange Um, I like I love it like I love imagining like him and ben getting up to some like evil shit But it's easy to forget that he wasn't always like Compulsively singing and dancing and crying and like throwing himself on coffins. Yeah, um-hmm And it definitely changes like um how one thinks about laura's life prior to her death. Yeah, uh Richard bamer gets a bunch of great screen time this episode.

This seems leland is good too and ray wise I mean he sells it. He has that whole little like rattling off like the the twisted shit they could do about the ghost what it states And he's well, he's a smarter jerry. That's actually a no. I wrote down his beeline is a better version of jerry I was just thinking that I was just thinking that they were probably like incredible partners in crime.

Yeah, uh, it seems like jerry Is is I mean blood relation sure but ben in this scene is clearly excited to have his main his main band back Have a gang back together. It's like when you see your main duty. You know you about to go wild That's what this scene is are you gonna tweet that maybe I don't think that I don't think the other tweet got any love Did you notice my brother favorite of that? Oh, I didn't know I did favorite that.

Um, and my brother has not watched one deeks Okay, um Yeah, leland doing that getting to know you getting to know all about you. Yeah, um and then wait kid. Okay, so mr. Tajramora Yes, I here's the thing I wrote down it is very obvious The thing about mr.

Tajramora and then I went on use that and apparently this was not as obvious to people as you think it was I want to give people the benefit down be like maybe they were watching on really bad gvs I don't know what the night is like, but it's but it's still like should we wait? I feel like we should wait. I don't want to Let's just not talk about mr. Tajramora this episode period that portrayal continues to be racist other than Pete is a cultured man.

Yes. Would you would you care for a sake? It's damn fine food time That's the theme song now Wait, so my mom was texting me about this episode and she was like Just giving me some unsolicited thoughts about the food segment section. Okay, and she was like so you could do oh my god I forgot how long this text message was We could do cake or milk or saki, but do you want to know how she smells?

How how s o c k I? Ah Yeah, it's a k e anyway I fuck like cake is in this episode. We didn't go with just like a nice cake. I had to talk.

Yeah, my house Yeah, I was also the first thing I thought of so we both have Just some sake summarize wine like a shot each Okay, so you want to wait can you say can we talk about the smell the smell okay? You say what you think it smells like? Okay, I'm gonna say what other people have told me smells like which is sunscreen All right And I took away from it without having been primed with that and I thought it smelled like the icing on a cinnamon bun And now we're both kind of in agreement. It smells like a mixture of sunscreen and cinnamon bun icing.

All right That's good It is coconut and lemongrass sake. Oh, so it's like actually flavored. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

Oh, yeah Well definitely getting a coconutty aftertaste now. Yeah All this closer bought this at a restaurant quite some time ago and it has been waiting to be finished Well, it's finished now Um other than the aftertaste that was really good. It's damn fine Yeah, I like this flavor talky better than like the cheap sake that I've gotten before when I've gone to a restaurant and like give me your cheap It's okay. Yeah, well maybe don't say that in the future Yes Boy, yep, that was a food segment.

It was needed that or cold milk and we're gonna do that for obvious reasons Um peat I love him. I love him death and sad that we only see him Oh, well I love the way peat reveals himself in this situation which is pajamas watching Leeland make an ass of himself and pulling Ben in with him and then he goes with a king and I I think just proves it jack nanskin and say anything and make me laugh. Yeah, it is. Have you read about jack nans?

No, well wait, you don't know about this. No, I don't. Oh my god. Okay, so I don't know that I'm gonna get all the details correct, but Back out to prior to his death.

He had been married to like a very much younger woman who was like in the porn industry who like had recently like committed suicide Oh my gosh, and then like a year or two later. He was in what he said was a bar fight Um, he just like went somewhere and saw someone and was like very beaten up And he was like oh yeah, I was in a bar fight, but there's no record of this fight like no one remembers it There's no police report of it anyway. He was found dead in his home like a day or two later of like a blunt force head trauma But his blood alcohol level was like 0.34 geez That's just I thought that this was I'm sad. No, I'm sorry.

I didn't know Because he wanted to tell the story there was gonna be some like strange like maybe like some kind of like mysterious circumstance But just well no it is mysterious because like he said that he was injured in this fight that there's no record of he is like listed on the like List of like mysterious deaths, which is how I find his provisions sounds more Like the awkins razor answers just sadder and I'm gonna be sad about it for the rest of the night and I'm sorry listeners Join me in sadness Check me. It's can't wait to see a race of it. Still haven't seen it yet. I'm sure we'll talk about that the week that I watch it Especially if you watch it too.

Yeah, we're gonna have to do that. I really want to watch inland empire I want to see grace the brisket scream and do creepy things for two and a half hours I didn't still have the opinion that we have to record Wait, did you know that he was married to cap and colson? Jacknance? Yeah, no, I had no idea.

They were married. They divorced in 1976. Oh, okay. A lot of sad right now man Okay, have your note.

I Because you okay, this is the this is the I'm laying the fucking gauntlet down now You just bummed me out so hard We are going to do an episode of this show this podcast after we immediately after we've watched dune Together and gotten really drunk watching it and it'll be the worst episode of this show ever probably but it's gonna happen now Because you just you just brought down the mood That's fine Yeah, we're definitely gonna do inland empire. We're gonna do all the movies Well that hard look if you want us to deliver a two-hour show when we get to the season two doldrums We're gonna have to talk about some movies too. So yeah, get ready Listen if you're into that let's know if you're into that please seems like you guys are into that if you've held on this long Yeah, it seems like it anyway Okay back to James But also Maddie more importantly Matt. Okay, Maddie's goodbye to James Sherylie does some fucking fantastic acting in the scene.

I think that with this like, you know I mean, she's almost mama logging off of James like it doesn't matter what James. No, and she's great She's awesome, and it's great to see Maddie get space to explore that's at least a step outside of this fucking love triangle And after real and to see Shirley get something more interesting to work with because they brought they brought her back because she was such a good actress In the Laura flashbacks, but then to like lock her into like two of the weakest performances on the show Total disservice her abilities as an actress. Yeah Do you have any other thoughts either content wise or or about like just the scene? Maddie feels a little underused because looking back just like oh weird thing with James resolved within an episode.

Yeah, Laura's sidekick Not Laura Donna sidekick There was a wealth of yeah, but there was a wealth of other stuff that could have come up because we know that shed a weird Psychic connection with Laura right. Yeah, and also just like it was a strong receiver. Yeah, like so Well, I guess I'll get back into this later I do want to bring up to do you think that the arrangement because you know knowing that that's where they like let a man to get Attack and have a heart attack that cost reminds In the version of this show where James is a sociopath. Yeah Is that not the version we're watching it might be that might explain a lot about his performance.

Yeah But we are far and away from some of the worst James stuff we're gonna see yep Also, I just this is completely out of context now I wish I could turn back time and insert this where it was appropriate But I wrote down one line and only one line this episode. Do you want here it yep? We figured what the hell? Kazoos Thank you Dana for that great great delivery on that line I can't even try to match can you just see that moment?

They're in the party store the only party store in Phoenix and he's standing next to Shelley and he says what the hell kazoos I can see it clear his day and also I see Catherine Colson standing down the aisle Yes, I'm looking at them with such higher. She's like buying some candles It's only place in two things where you get candles. It's that small of a town It's not her horns and you don't want to support horns Yeah And I want to believe that that prior to this Bobby had been home Picture breaks and they had a moment where he was like yeah, and go plant a party for a friend Wilson, I hope you have a very good night. Please be back by 10.

I care about you very much We have a very special bond. I love to do this and then stand out because he's also passed Okay, all right We've been circling this and now we're at the end of the episode. We've circled the drain. Let's talk about Philip Gerard the one-armed man How we not like the most important because I've carefully in what I've brought up steered away from it So that we would be able to talk about everything all in one go nice, okay?

You like that like this high level mind games I've been playing but it's not talking about those notes I would not have like objective here like let's talk about the one-armed man. They're like cool. Yeah, but let's talk about No, it's easy to forget about Laura's death at this point. Yes, everyone else has everyone else has it's true.

Um, well, I guess Yeah, we have a we have a chess a chess deal mentioned earlier that has nothing to do with for his death So yeah, it's soon Cooper. We'll forget about Laura's death. Yeah, there's no resemblance to that case But right around the time that chest deal. Hey, you found the one-armed man finally and We deny him his haloper at all kind of questionable policing there But if you don't if you give a medicine you'll never see the other side as Gordon tells us and we get a big dump of exposition Yeah, can you do the voice or no?

My name is my no, I can't Go so deep he goes so deep with his voice. Oh my god. I feel like a vocal effect I don't think so. I think fuck what's that actors name?

Oh, man You give your thoughts on the scene while I Gently wicked penis well This confirms a lot of the super natural kind of vibe of the show It definitely isn't not the alien vampire owl theories that have been floating around the internet But this is where the show really is it though? Okay, it delves head-on The supernatural which I think is was probably off-putting for casual viewers of the show Yeah straight up calls himself and having spirit the episode title is demons and of course double triple whatever means I don't know the Al Strobel actor one-armed man filter art Mike I Think you just do that deep voice. I think you just do it and it's to fucking and maybe there's some like some after effects Apply to the kind of like snarl Choking sound yeah, but that's like also like clearly like some real recorded stuff that he's doing he's he's a fucking presence on screen Both his filter art and Mike. I Love how unassuming he was I was filled up to hard.

Yeah, just just a fucking boot salesman Yeah, but then to like turn and be he's like the same level as Bob And like that's obviously because like their characters are supposed to be these like eternal comrades or whatever But like to bring it up to like the the spookiness of Frank Silva crawling over a couch. Yes It's it's weird and I don't think it's just because like I know where the show is going to seem before whatever But like I do get the I get the equal dose from his performance spookiness and also That I mean he's just there talking to them And he is he is he's coming across as powerful and like scary But also like he has turned this new leaf like before he even gets to his history with Bob Like he is there and this is a fucking event that one of these one of these you know spirits that I guess and have Some pieces talking to residents. Yeah, but he is not Bob He is not of the same he is not the same ilk, but he is not of the same inclination anymore Bob is a parasite Bob he feeds on fear and the pleasures. They are his children We just get like so much good Like just stuff about Bob Bob's inclinations.

It doesn't it doesn't feel like an information dump is the thing Yeah, it is but it also isn't because it just gives us these Semi-cryptic pointers and like fills in like what we may have already known about Bob But also you can take it very literally and you're on the I think you're on the right bend which is that He feeds on fear and it suddenly characterizes the darkness and why things are so weird in Twin Peaks in a different way now that ostensibly This you know if we take the spirit that's word has come and confirmed that yeah Supernatural things are afoot and fear is the catalyst fear is what is being pursued here But also pleasure and vice's and kind of I think the intersection of those two things is really key and maybe specifically situations Where someone is at a disadvantage and someone is taking pleasure in that yes Also, just the pleasure is that actually it's all the fucking affairs. Yes, it does If you want fear and pleasure trying to have a intimate moment with your new bow in front of your old bow Who is covered in streamers in a party head and then he moves a little bit. That's fear and pleasure right there You go. That's that's some that's some Bob food being generated right there and may God protect Shelley and Bobby Yes, I saw the face of God and was purified like this isn't just like like the way in which Mike talks about this He's kind of like steering us away from any kind of like oh space transmissions or stuff because we're talking about like angels and demons essentially Yeah, like we're talking biblical type stuff going down Yeah, there is a I don't have it but a Bible verse that talks about someone seeing God and cutting off their right arm There you go And you're bad Bible we're not knowing it by heart Ashley.

I have never read the Bible you I hope you read parts of it Oh for school we had been for college stuff. That's true where we were being very academic We had to read the Bible so I hope you weren't at the link went I was not a delinquent in that case Did you go to all the Bible lectures though at 9 in the morning? Mm-hmm. That's a good question that was several years ago.

You don't know Or you know because you know approximately how many of those you attended that semester anyway Yeah, so this is like I don't know what you think about the way in which Mike talks about his relationship Bob because it either tells us a lot about what's actually going on or it dances around the subject of What their actual origin is for instance? He can't say where they come from I like that we don't get that information often I think that like specifically in like fantastic world-building scenarios We get information that link we don't need that's like not relevant to the plot and then That just takes a time and space that could be devoted to like character development or advancing the plot and where they come from isn't important At this juncture in the story. Yeah, I think it is momentous enough that he is talking to them and he confirms that the only reason why he still possesses this useful vessel why he still possesses filter art is to find Bob and Bob has also been in the Twin Peaks community for 40 years Congratulations Probably not the first event that you can attribute like if you just think 40 years probably some other fucked up shit went on Bob is connected to in somewhere another if not directly responsible for or one of Bob's ilk Mike until if you cut off the arm sure sometime in the last 40 years, but probably Not all that long ago He was out for the same thing out for the same fear fear currency, let's call it and That's gotta be it's gotta be rough to be sheriff Truman in that room right then or hawk to be like oh shit My worst fears isn't the confirmed now like I always knew it, but there is this dude the spirit tell me I'm gonna give up looking for this Bible verse right now, and I will find it. It's okay And we'll talk about it at a later date.

Okay. I definitely remember looking at it and being like that's too obvious I don't need to take a note on that. Nope. It's okay.

It's okay But I do I do like how like biblic older story is it's really like pain and able I have a copy of the Oxford Bible What if we what if we just open the page and then we were at that exact verse when that be smoothie? Huh? Huh? Let's not do it.

I have to get up and be a whole ordeal. I like sitting here. I like sipping on this drink. I have that's pretty good Tell me what you think about the the revelation at the very end of the episode which relation?

Where Bob's hanging? Yeah, it makes a lot of sense that kind of seems to be the center of where bad things are happening The great northern. Yeah, I mean Cooper got shot there what like 40 Yeah Cooper got shot there Ben Horns there Leland did a lot of business there Jerry's there well Jerry's not there currently so Jerry's been around if you take the one on man and his word Jerry not Bob or at least Bob's not possessing Jerry currently so yeah Because we know that you know Bob only reveals his true form to the gifted and the damned yes Which also that says a lot about who's who's seen Bob Cooper? Maddie Sarah is that it?

I mean Laura, but we know what happened to her yeah, so who's gifted and who's damned? Oh? We don't know but we might find out God Leland Leland yeah Leland has seen Bob out of her legs. Yeah before Which also I mean that says it's then like I don't know I wish I loved thinking about what the show would be like if Maddie had more time on her own and we could explore that sort of psychic bond A little bit more, but then I can also be really tacky.

I don't know but I like thinking about it I like to think it would regardless just be better than the mystery teens. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah There's like a hot bed of psychic activity in the Palmer family and the show just kind of doesn't comment on it Yeah, I have a comment Which if we deem after I say this for it to be too spoilery Because kind of spoilery we can cut it okay, but hear me out Mike describes where Bob is currently in a number of ways it's surrounded by trees in a A place made of wood with many rooms similar but holding different souls and This is why it's semi-spoilery is that this is a good description of the place that Cooper saw in his dream in episode three like as This is not a bad description of that place But to know that you have to know a little bit more about that place and that vision that Cooper had Is that too spoilery? So by the say we have not we're not done with red curtains It's not like people if you've seen anything about Twin Peaks and you are still new the show listening to this You've probably seen the red curtains and zigzag floors all over the place It's not just because of 10 minutes in one episode Did you see that show time released a promo for season three, but it was just footage of the man from another place In that room It's just old footage. It's just old footage that they like we cut it looks really fun.

Was it actually show time? Yeah, show time actually released it like two days ago. Oh, yes today. I scroll past a tweet about that thought was just like a fan thing No, no, it's real weird.

I'll check that out. Yeah, anyway. Yeah, so there you have it You're gonna we're not done with red curtains and zigzag floors Also, can we talk about the fact that between us recording this episode the last one I was out of friends place and I went in their bathroom And they had these wood-paneled walls a red floor and on the red floor There was a black and white zigzag like rug to like step on after you got out of the shower Who's house? Where's the thing is it?

Okay? So this is my friend's apartment and that's a shared bathroom like she has like a kitchen and a bedroom and stuff But the bathroom is shared by all the residents on that floor. Oh, okay, boarding on situation So that's like a communal decision to make their bathroom seem like it's the black lodge really creepy anyway Not the aesthetic I want to invite you home. I think Yeah, I was once considering For just doing that for like an event for Renfaire at the at the paradox and then I was like a lot of work be Probably too scary for people who might be any grated.

Yeah, I do want to say sure those listeners out there Don't worry about what the paradox or what Renfaire is no It's a space and there was an event and there's an event. Yeah, that's like it's a space and there's a bit That could be dialogue from the show anyway. I think that covers it right I don't be missed anything I mean like I do want to reiterate that I love like the one-armed man and that was a really strong scene But I don't know I also feel like dissecting that monologue at this stage would be kind of premature Mmm. So do you want me to go back and know?

Okay? All right. Yeah, all right. Let's move on to production notes the thing that you do because I would be shit at it Well, I don't have a lot and or any production notes I mean this was directed by Leslie Linka Glater who we've seen direct a couple of previous episodes written by Harley-Payton and Robert Ingalls Okay, written a number of previous episodes.

I also wonder what it was like to like direct David Lynch That's gonna be weird, right? Yeah I'd like to think that like David Lynch was like in that scene when they were shooting the one-armed man's monologue Like what do you think he like after take he was like actually as executive producer I'm gonna step in here and give this some creative direction. Yeah, I don't know it could be and it could be totally I think he was like working on some of that. See this is why you do the production thing cuz I won't even fucking thought of this question But it's so obvious It's there he's like the guy um Yeah, I think it's like also sign a good faith that like David is like willing to be a part of the show when he isn't explicitly at the at the steering wheel I I wonder though like I'm thinking about the mystery twins when I don't want to be but I wonder if I wonder how much of How insufferable James and Donna are Is intended by intended by David Lynch intended by everybody responsible for the production and how much of that is a response to because we touched on this briefly a week or two ago, but it was sponsored to believe velvet and The mystery-solving teens who are not annoying in that movie a Response how like do you like was this like a failed attempt at recreating that team?

No, I don't I don't even see it as an attempt at recreating it But so much as like if I look at it compared to the sort of like I've seen blue velvet twice now And I like feel way more invested and like along the the messy awkward ride that is a relationship between Kyle and Lord earns characters that I am with James Donna But James Donna that way are more realistic teenagers and more realistic as failures as investigative true who don't it kids like The who don't gang there they are no mystery incorporated, but that's also like that's that's good you Yeah, I was gonna go for Scooby-Doo reference, but you mean me to it. Sorry But that's like maybe more true to life in a way that they suck so bad and are so annoying to watch their lovey-dovey These antics like teen heterosexual love is really a nuanced or fun to be witness to I think we can both agree You see teens meckin on the bus. How do you feel actually? There's a teen couple of new seasons and I was just trying to like buy some groceries and they were just making out in front of the Kombucha and I just wanted to Just wanted some Kombucha and then I went and then I went to the coconut water aisle and oh my goodness This hipster was standing there waxing his mustache And I saw Kyle McLachlan as the mayor of Portland and I was like oh my god.

It's Dale. Oh my god But really though those those kids need to not stand in front of food when they're making out go somewhere else yeah do you Do Bobby and Shelley rank pretty highly in your list of favorite heterosexual pairings on television now? Yeah, they're up there Who are some other examples in that tier for you some favorite heterosexuals? Oh, I have to think about this.

I mean Kanye and Kim clearly Yeah, I mean Kanye and Kim like very top of that list Yeah, I really have to think about this That's fair. I'd say Penny Desmond from lost That's your choice. I would still cry every time I watch that one episode the constant. I might do that tonight I'll already in the kind of a low-down sad vibe now.

Yeah, I still haven't come up with any other This is how enlightened you are is that you completely forgotten what heterosexual couples are on television or is that you now just like Disregard most of them I keep like I keep going back to like I just elbow because I can always like to find something I like about characters So now I'm just thinking about John Luther and Alice Morgan and like they're not really a couple. Oh, well So conge and Kim Shelley and Bobby that's it. That's all I got. That's it.

That's a finalist. What about um, what about Scott and Scott Disick and Honestly, okay, I'm very upset right now because Scott Disick has been photographed for all looking around Miami with an 18-year-old Whoops, oh god. Oh, no. Yeah.

Oh, no, but this is for a different podcast. Yeah, you can listen to the K-hole if you want to talk about that I wasn't good today. We'll talk about that. Okay, I'm gonna be plugging things To be that's what we're talking about Can you think of other and I think of other headers?

Well, okay? This is like this is like when Billy Eichner like screams at people like name a white person Shit let's see well, I'll keep one to say Larry and Piper Sexual couple everyone loves watching the antics of God, I mean From Annie and Jeff or Britain Jeff community that's that's the show. Oh, okay, Ben and Leslie, okay Also, April and Andy Is it a heterosexuals does that show have any queer couples? No, they're we're never well.

No Billy Eichner's character Craig Okay, I you know what that's one of the things that I've not watched that show actually get to wear Billy's in it But that's we're not fucking partial back for this look at the people on me Comment with some heterosexual couples this show is for spooky owls not little Sebastian. Okay, all right You keep your fucking charming well written amazing sitcoms. I haven't finished watching out of it Alright, okay, okay. We're gonna be real comedy poser Hey watch twin pizza number time so so I'm doing something right, you know what I have a lot of TV I could be watching but I started Sailor Moon instead Me fighting evil by moonlight is basically what Dale Cooper does Yeah, it's a full circle He's the one call it the el cooper I'm really into that.

Okay, so let's talk about these neck groups So I we actually can't talk about a lot of what was posted this week because it was all Speculation that happens to be true about coming episodes. Okay, so let's just leave it at that no no no there was a thing that happened though Oh fuck you're gonna drag it back in aren't you? Yeah, I'm gonna drag you back in welcome back to 1990 so someone in the ground What do you mean back? This is my first time there?

What's up? You'll have real cell phones yet 1990? Hey? Is no ice a thing yet if so why why?

Okay, moving on so someone compiled this very like tongue and cheek list of like like frequently asked questions with questions like who killed Laura Palmer answer We don't know who is the dark figure in the woods with Leo? We don't know etc. Etc. Pretty tongue and cheek But they're like lots of replies There's like four year applies to this which is pretty unusual because it's a lot of people just posting topics and no one responding Or the most part But then so one of the one of the questions says why was Donna acting slutty for a few episodes?

We don't know and then someone said couldn't we think of a better way to phrase this and I saw the internet as what it is now a Flame war about gender and social roles. Wow I mean, I would I wanted to say don't you like you said most these net topics are just a topic that's out there in the void And don't you don't you kind of long for the days of the internet when you would just like throw out your opinion and no one would No one would respond. I'm sure it would become a thing No one would see it which is great Which is bad because then people who agree or people who are interested in having like a real genuine conversation if you wouldn't see it Or respond to it. Also people who wanted to just tear you a new one Wouldn't see it and try to just like make your life with it now Obviously, I think I come on the side of like what we gotta say it that way like what's I suppose I mean?

Like let's dig into this a little deeper and then I would be part of a flame war I guess Yep Someone says something very reasonable and says couldn't we find a better word than slutty here? It has such negative connotations and it is rarely used to describe the actions of men it comes across as pretty sexist Nobody calls Ben Horn a slut very reasonable point that you would hear someone making today Ben Horn is a slut if we're using that word We're not gonna use that word other than for that low hanging fruit joke. Let's say and when I say let's I mean me I will say this on that subject which is that? There's a connotation to that word that would in any Reasonable interpretation suggest that Donna's actions were at all like kind of Inticing when they weren't yeah, James is he James and Harold are apparently drawn in by this siren that is Donna God we can't go like five minutes without bringing up Donna But it just doesn't make any sense.

Why is this even the thing that people are focusing on it's just so clear that her character is bad And then she wants to be someone she's not Which is Laura she does want to be Laura when you know that but then someone the reason what questions why is Donna trying to be Laura when Laura Clearly did not lead a life one should want to imitate I guess yes That is a that is a good question and then this whole conversation Someone makes this point and says I've heard that the show is anti women and I love the show and I'm willing to let Something's pass by but like is bringing up some valid points about like the portrayal of Donna's character The way people have been talking about Donna and other women on these boards and it just it goes exactly where you think it would go So you there's something oh here we go There's someone talking about the first amendment and how Political correctness is censorship No one is censoring you on Usenet case in point you posted that dumb shit about the first amendment and probably the majority of people were like Yeah, yeah, this is the fucking futures free speech right here the internet and you're why things are the way they are today And why people give talks at the UN on web harassment, so No one stopping you from saying the things you want to say you're just maybe asking that you don't be such an asshole about it Right yep, I think I think the founding fathers Even the worst of them would have agreed maybe being an asshole isn't the solution Maybe you might be on to something or not I mean some of the founding fathers gotten tools with each other and did really fucked up shit So they weren't great people but just like looking through the rest of these replies like it's the same shit You hear people saying today like oh, yeah, like Audrey's really spunky and like that makes the show not anti women at all that invalidates that whole argument Spunky yes, the word spunky was verbatim in that I think today the character the the the the it's feminist would be she's a strong female character Sexual agency has to be like what the fuck does that mean? Yeah, what does that mean though? But this is also like something that we've been talking about that's been coming up in this podcast a lot is like how the show treats women and I'm just I'm glad to see that people were talking about this. Yeah, you know you would have had kindred spirits watching the show If you were around was being aired live What's what to bring us back down though?

What's sad is that or what says I'm guessing? The way in which television was approached critically this wasn't on the radar probably at all I wouldn't think so like today whenever any show Like fucks up even a tiny bit in terms of like in like a very subtle way I don't want to pretend that there's a way to quantify this or that like these aren't issues of debate sometimes But when like a show does a bad you can rest assured that we'll be called out It will be called out by people with platforms and with voices and maybe sometimes it's still like kind of like on the fringe And you're not gonna see it and like if you you know You're not gonna see it on the biggest platforms talking about this kind of stuff and appealing to that those audiences But it'll be brought up it will be an issue of discussion And it is not as easy as it may have been on the using that days to shut down voices that want to have a serious conversation About the ways in which shows handle these things so maybe like We're better off the day than we were then I just like can't imagine that like people were having You know like people were having in like the pages of like magazines about television stuff intelligent discussions like adding to a conversation about how Like the success and pitfalls of representation in Twin Peaks like there were magazine spreads that are just like look at the sexy cast Like that's probably 90% like what's the mystery? What's going on? What does the dancing man mean sexy cast like?

That's my impression of how like magazines like Rolling Stone treated it then Yeah, I mean I would imagine that and this is evidence that these conversations were happening But I think even in the past few years like we've seen social justice concerns and like feminism specifically become like very mainstream and like really be like Capitalized on by publications on the internet like BuzzFeed for instance. Mm-hmm. Yeah, not to say that all that content is like It's like Well one free from the shackles of capitalism. Yeah, that's being it's being thrown up there for clicks and views and stuff But also that all that like contributes hopefully to a conversation Yeah, it's like I don't know It's it's it's definitely like a mixed bag But the point being that like BuzzFeed has identified that like this is an audience there are people who want to read this So they're making an effort They're all very and publish that yeah, and a lot of people are doing good work But then also, you know sites like that will post like articles like is Beyonce feminist and it's just like okay What like this is this is like like I mean The problem is like very white centered feminism, which is just like historically not good Well, it's really not good also historically not even a thing like not even necessarily like like what feminism when like you actually like Look into it and like look into what it's done Like it's like not been like a fucking like always like just like a hundred percent like white monopolized movement Well, but I mean like the early like person second wave feminism was like very like exclusive to the white people sure But then for a long time it hasn't been but with the internet stuff.

I feel like I don't know that it's that long I wouldn't I mean you can make argument that if you want to going back to like the suffrage movement the argument was like black men can Vote why can't white women we should be able like as white women should be able to vote if Black men can vote the argument kind of just being like we're superior now. We're just getting this catch up like yes But then in these historical areas where it's like yeah, we can point to like the the the hallmark moments and movements Like the voices of people of color in those movements that have like since like not been surfaced in the history But that was still important stuff like what's happening with what's happening with stonewall? Nothing in the movie yeah, yeah fucking tanked like fucking by doing the exact opposite by taking a critical moment at a point in history that was like pioneered by people of color and Transcents women and fucking be like not it was all just like white gay dudes who just like some straight acting white gay dudes like That's why I you know, I just it's a double-edged sword now like yes I think it says you suggest we get more discussion about this stuff But a lot of it is of that like mine were just like it's not really taking it seriously like they don't look at the intersections They don't do it and they don't like want to talk about TV in that way for instance, okay Let's talk about now because we're basically the episode right we have the end I want to plug your podcast with our friend Taylor The cayhole I was here today. I'm not someone who's I think ever watched a episode of any of the cardaching shows But it's a very serious show that takes a serious approach though Also with like time to stop and smell the roses and ask what's up with certain members of the clan and Talk about looks and stuff, which is you know, it's all good But also like you're taking the show on very seriously and it's fucking mind-boggling to me that like this is like A good idea problem has off to you people are fucking doing this people aren't trying to talk about these things seriously and take these lenses to them And I just hope that if you're listening to this show you be into that you'll be into that show whether or not you watch Kardashians You check out they're doing good work.

Thank you. It's a it's fun. I need to listen to me say I'm a dumbass Take my plugging my terrible filtering of it go with Michelle Thank you Yeah, I think I think it's just fun to have these conversations and I think it's fun to have this conversation about A form of media that doesn't get this kind of critical attention. Yeah, it's operating through the same the same artistic channels more or less Yeah, I mean I definitely already have different thoughts about how reality television is made and maybe I would like be on that level If I'd ever like really looked into it or thought about it, but like it's you know, I went a lot listen to that today So go check that out.

You also have another show I do called yeah, I've seen that which you titled that yeah Thank you. I didn't have to say it I'm proud of that. It is off the cuff and I think I haven't been able to listen that one yet. It's fine I have to listen to your other show In addition to make this one with you another friend has another podcast and you can listen to so yeah I mean you have a podcast which my mom listens to oh no Sorry Cathy.

I mean that's great. Cool. Awesome. When is my mom just gonna bypass me and just start texting you?

Oh, I think Kathy if you're listening, but you are I Mean please don't grab my please don't get my number, but if you get it out of Ashley I guess that says a lot about our friendship The friendship between me and her and I guess I won't do anything about it and I'll answer your questions Actually, please don't like you know I'm bad about responding to texts so You're not that bad Anyway, you have a movie podcast with Sandra and I called yeah, I've seen that where you talk on movies what movie did you talk about this week? We talked about fourth major which is a Swedish language film about gender roles and notions of like family and It's really it's really heavy and it was Sandra's suggestion. I wasn't familiar with it and it is quite good So there you go another podcast that I assure you if you're into this show will take media seriously and try it's best to talk about it in a cool Sophisticated way also maybe some jokes because Santa's very funny and I'm sure you you probably make some quips You make some clips on that show actually, you know, I make some quips, but Sandra brings the big laughs Sandra brings the fire. Yeah, she's the president of a comedy club.

So yes, so you'd expect as much I'm not funny, but I have a show with my funny friend Caitlin called can you get to that and What have you guys been looking up on Wikipedia lately last week? We did an episode on Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, which I mean I think we figured out that we really like doing Episodes where we both just want to talk a lot about the subject and then get into the Wikipedia game part of the podcast where we Try to play with it Pee-da game with the topic as its endpoint I knew Tony Hawk game came out and it was really bad and it was really fun to talk about that and then this week the Subject is alien and if you're listening to this when this episode came out means that episode is already out And we talk about it's a gourmet weaver and really Scott and cat Can't Jonesy oh and aliens a really good movie also can recommend that here's a plug for the movie alien from 1979 Fucking quickly claimed pieces sci-fi you probably heard of it. Yeah, watch it. What are you doing?

Why are you listening to this podcast? Yeah, other more important things to consume Wait, no, you don't cuz we're doing we're trying our best year and trying to make an interesting for you We're really Scott Please sponsor this podcast really Scott please make more movies like the Martian I hear people really dig that Don't make movies like Exodus gods and kings or Prometheus Please really Scott please I heard you say that your script to play runner 2 is supposedly the best thing Harrison Ford's ever read And I don't believe you I don't you know he's making a Prometheus sequel right? I know and he there's also something called about them just titling it alien instead of Like having alien in the title and some Prometheus I've been really so conscious about how much I'm talking this episode and I made up a stake of bringing up really Scott And now I just want to be really upset really Scott for the next eight minutes My co-worker just saw Blade Runner and she was like trying to talk to me about it And I was like whoa wait which version of Blade Runner did you see can you give me some hints? So we can figure this out because there might be a lot that you are missing There's a whole lot to talk about did your co-worker want to talk about the whole like is he is he not yeah?

And then I ruined it for her because Ridley Scott ruined it for everyone I Well, I'm I'm kind of on his side in terms of like having it having an answer But also he ruined it he made like 10 versions of that movie and rude it So I'm still talking about this guy. Yeah, have you read do Android stream of electric sheets? You know what this came up on can you get to that Wow so tuning to can you get to that to find out if Matt has read that book? Yep, let's see what that that's all I have to say is you can find me on Twitter I'm Matthew Olson at Matthew Olson on Twitter spelled right and I'm at Ashley Brandt on Twitter There's a silent D and my name figure out where it is.

Yeah, it's It's like nothing you think no, and also we are on Twitter at vinpeaks peaks and tumblr vinpeaks peaks Or anywhere else Facebook and I need one more like to access Facebook analytics come on come on What are you more people that listen to this show than like us on Facebook? And I know that because I can see the and the show analytics. Well, we're still not sure if some of those are repeat Listen, it's just my mom over and over your mom and my mom, but hi mom. Hi.

Hi other Kathy Sorry you relate to the game because I didn't tell you I was doing this podcast and now unfortunately in the grand sea with things You become other Kathy. I'm so sorry mom It's got off the rails. Is this mom so funny to anyone? Well, as our friend Scott Our only other friend and our mom We really need to cut this off before I start talking about really Scott Again, we have other friends.

There are other people who tweeted at us actually shut me up. Don't give me any more room to talk Okay, um these grapes are right on edge