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Yo-yo folks, welcome to another episode of Excellence Expected, with me, Mark Askwith. I sounded like a bad DJ that when I launched in with a yo-yo. I think my wife's going to maybe rip me to shreds for that later on when she hears this, but nevertheless, maybe I've got another career after podcasting. Maybe I could be a DJ.
Anyway, I digress. Welcome to Excellence Expected as ever. Thank you ever so much for choosing to spend this 30 minutes with me and my fantastic guest. Now, you know the old saying, all your eggs in one basket.
It really becomes a problem for the modern entrepreneur. Very specifically, what happens if you drop that basket, or if something happens outside of your control, which causes something to happen to all of those eggs. Now, we live in this world of, you know, entrepreneurialism is a really fashionable thing, isn't it? Anyone with an internet connection and just a willingness to succeed can be an entrepreneur and can make money.
But the thing is, very often what we sometimes overlook is that opportunities are just there for us and we don't necessarily take them. But we all know how important it is to have multiple streams of income. And actually, that's what we're going to define Challenge and Conquer today, how you can create a secondary income from a perhaps surprising source. I'm going to leave it at that for now.
And joining me today is someone who has a very, very, very, very background. Someone who has got a fantastic story, fantastic journey. Someone who actually began his career as an Air Force pilot before diversifying into different things. So it gives me great, great pleasure to welcome to the show Mr.
Matt Miller. How are you, sir? Hey, I'm doing great, Mark. Are you sure you're talking about me with that introduction?
That's off the charts, man. Thank you. Oh, you are very, very welcome. You do yourself a disservice, sir.
Your bio speaks for itself. So you started your career in the Air Force, and you were piloting the Air Force, which is absolutely stunning. Much, much admiration for that. But what is it that you do now, sir?
Where did the journey take you, and what do you do to help people today? Yeah, Mark, I spent nine years in the Air Force. I got out back in 1998 and spent about another 12 years working in the corporate world. Spent some time working in the hospital medical device industry.
And then the majority of that time was spent in the direct-to-mail advertising world. Midway through my career in the advertising space, my pay took a huge hit one year when my boss decided to significantly increase my quota at work. That led to about an $80,000 a year pay cut the next year. And my family was in a world of hurt overnight because of a decision that I had nothing to do with from somebody higher up in the corporate chain.
And so I was frustrated. I knew looking at the compensation plan at work that it was going to take me a long, long, long time to work my way out of the hole I was in. So I decided to start doing some things on the side. And I sold books online, used books online for a couple of years.
My garage in my house looked like a library at one point in time with all the books that we had. I collected aluminum cans, did a little bit of everything just to keep food on the table and the roof over our head. The challenge was I'd read Robert Kiyosaki's book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, which I'm sure you're familiar with. And he talks about passive income in that book.
So I measured everything that I was doing against that passive income model. And I was just creating another job for myself with all these other things. And around that time, I had a good buddy of mine who at church had bought a couple of gumball machines, was teaching his young daughters a little bit about business. And they had placed them in some local area businesses.
It was something they could do together. I remember that conversation and decided, hey, why not? I could start out, do some gumball machines. It would allow me to continue to do my thing full time.
Wouldn't take away from my work, but would allow me to start putting something more passive together on the side. So I started doing that nights and weekends and any spare moment I had. About a year and a half later, I had about 150 locations in and around the Houston area in Texas. And then 07 and 08 hit.
And of course, the markets tanked and the economy took a turn for the worse. And less and less people were frequenting the businesses where I had my gumball and vending machines. Well, right around that time, I had four young kids come knocking on my door, selling something for the local schools to raise money. And I thought that was kind of odd because these were younger kids.
Their parents weren't with them. Here I was outside of the big city of Houston. I didn't know who these kids were. And I wasn't really comfortable with them running around the neighborhood without any supervision asking for money, essentially.
So I thought maybe I could tie together what I'd learned in vending with fundraising for schools. And that's kind of where the whole idea of School Spirit Vending, the company that I own and operate right now, started. We began custom designing mascot stickers for schools and placing sticker machines within the school, allowing those stickers and others to be available to the kids and to the parents and to the faculty year-round. And it became a passive fundraiser for the school and a passive income stream for the professionals on our team, on our franchise team today as well.
That's an unbelievable journey. That's been, you know, knock, knock, knock, but a response from you every single time, which I love that. You know, that's when people talk about this fabled hustle on podcasts and blog posts. You just seem to be bleeding hustle.
You seem like it's just emanating from your paws. That's amazing. I love that kind of go-grabbit attitude. And one thing that struck me about that entire story there was the fact that you spotted the opportunity.
You identified that you wanted to create a passive income stream. And when you saw the chance, you dove on it, you know, you went for that. It was that, when you think back to that, how was that in terms of how did you feel with that? What was the family reaction to that?
How was it, you know, your first idea of, I'm going to get a gumball machine, the first one or the first two that you got? What did it feel like? Because it's quite a change, isn't it? Well, to be honest, Mark, it was a pretty humbling thing.
I mean, here I was, a former Air Force pilot. I graduated from the United States Air Force Academy, which is one of our top military schools in America. And here I was at a really, really low point in my life and looking to gumballs as the solution to my problems. I mean, you know, pretty ironic when you think about it, but what I learned along the way was I had to do whatever I had to do, right?
And even if people around me or family or friends didn't understand it, I just knew that I had to find a way to get my family into a much better place. And I knew that I wasn't, you know, a lot of people would say, well, man, if they take it personally, they consider it a failure on their part or whatever. I knew I was a lot better than the situation I was in at that point in time. So I didn't get down on me.
I just got down on the situation and got busy trying to figure out how to get out. And I messed up a bunch of times. My wife, I'm so grateful for her and her patience because, you know, I tried a number of things that didn't work out. And here she is, she's got to be scratching her head thinking, okay, what the heck, you know, is he doing?
When are we going to work our way out of this? But thankfully, she was patient and she trusted me and my instincts. And eventually we figured things out. And, you know, we got a completely different situation today.
It really is a fantastic tale. And it really, you know, outside of the inspiration that it provides, it just shows that actually things lie around corners that you don't expect. You know, as you say, your movement from being an Air Force pilot into doing something that you would never have even considered. If someone said this to you maybe 15, 20 years ago, you would completely, like, you'd been scratching your head and say, who's this guy getting out of here?
So I love that. I think that's fantastic. And, you know, what you said about it humbly, I think that's a really nice way of putting that. So let's talk about this idea of vending them.
Because it sounds a little, to me, the untrained ear. And I guess a lot of people out there, it sounds a little bit sort of, okay, can I really do this? You know, is it not too expensive in terms of the equipment? How does that tend to work?
You know, how viable is it as a passive income stream? Let's dig into that a little. Well, what's neat about vending, Mark, is the fact that most people don't take it seriously. You know, I was looking to a quarter to solve my problems.
Most people don't see real money in a quarter. But the reality is, the margins on a gumball are astronomical. And it doesn't take many gumballs with those kind of profit margins to start moving the needle. So, yes, it is real.
And not just gumballs and candy, but any type of vending. Now, I ended up moving towards what's called bulk vending. The toys, the temporary tattoos, the stickers, the candy, that type of thing. Because the equipment is very inexpensive.
It's mechanical. There's no electricity involved. And for somebody like myself, who was always already extremely busy, I needed something as simple as it could get. So, whereas when I talk to most people and mention I've got a vending company, they think, oh, you know, sodas and snacks and the big electric vending machines.
That's what immediately comes to their mind. And then along the way, I would say, well, no candy or stickers or whatever. They kind of look a little bit cross-eyed at you because that's not what they think of vending when they think of it. But those machines, at least in America, are everywhere.
And there's people that are making, you know, good money doing it. And that's the cool stuff. Let's be honest. Snacks are boring.
Give me a tattoo or a toy any day, though. That's what it's about. I think that's amazing. It's really interesting because I would have never considered that.
You know, if someone said something to me around how can I create a passive income stream or do something that's low impact on my time, never. Probably in a million years would I have considered that. And that is my own naivety coming into play there. So I'm really keen to dig into that a little bit further.
How do you go about, as someone in this business, how do you go about getting those locations? Because you mentioned 150 around the Houston area in a relatively short period of time. That's an impressive stat. How do you go about doing that?
Literally, Mark, I went door-to-door. One of those things that kind of separates the men from the boys. But in that type of business, as in many other businesses, that's really the way to move the needle the quickest. And I literally would go to a strip center with businesses and I'd knock on one door and then the next and then the next and then the next.
The same pitch over and over and over again. Some of them already had equipment in them or didn't have space. Some didn't want any part of what I was doing. But in any type of sales, it's a numbers game.
And if you're willing to go work the numbers, you will succeed. The challenge is most people aren't willing to work the numbers. They let the no's or the maybes or what have you sidetrack or derail them along the way. And once you realize that it's not a personal thing, they're not telling you no.
It's whatever you're offering that they're saying no to. And don't take it personally and move on. That's when you can really push the needle and really start to move towards success in that area. You really are the hustle king.
I like that. That is really good advice. The idea that it's not you will say no to that is so dejecting when we get turned down for a second. I mean, I run a design agency, so it's a little bit different because we work on, we'll pitch one project at a time.
It's rare that we'll talk to two or three people or more in a day. And even when it's just one person saying no in a month, man, that is so tough. But you don't realize that it's not like they don't get along with you or they don't necessarily like you. It's the product and that's something to learn from.
So that's a really good bit of advice. I think that you and I can sort of pick something out from them. Let's dig a bit deeper into the logistics of this because I'm completely hooked. I think this is a really great subject.
I'm completely curious by it. When you place a machine, when you place a vending machine, so whether it's kind of the stuff that you started out and all the things that you do now, for the people that are taking that machine, how does it work for them? Do they pay for that? Do they get a profit share?
How does that work? We do a profit share with them. And with our business today, that profit share is with the school that we're actually in. So it ends up being a passive fundraiser for them to where they don't have to do any work.
They don't need any volunteers. They don't have any investment on the front end. They just agree to allow us to come in and do business within the walls of that building. And in exchange for that, then we compensate them for the opportunity.
That makes sense. I can see that being an attractive low risk opportunity for people. So I can get on board with that completely and see why it will be attractive to people. What about when people try and get into this?
Because obviously people will see you being successful, just like you saw your friend being successful earlier in your career with this. When people do get into this, what are some of the mistakes that they tend to make? What are some of the pitfalls that they don't necessarily see? You know, a lot of it, I think, once again, gets back to the whole sales thing.
You know, most folks on our team have never sold before. Many of them have never been in business before. That's why they come to us as a franchisor, because we have all the systems already in place to teach, train, and educate them to success. So a lot of it just gets back, once again, to the mindset to realize that, you know, one person telling you no is not the end of it.
You know, there's a lot of people that are going to tell you no along the way, get excited about the no's, realizing that with those no's are going to be a bunch of yeses as well. The other thing is, they need to understand that this is something that's going to take them some time to put together. You know, not everybody that you talk to is on the same timetable that you are, because they're busy doing what they do in our space. They're busy educating the kids around, you know, the U.S.
So we've got to be patient. We've got to be very, very good at follow-up. And until somebody truly says no to what we do, never assume that it's a no, because oftentimes they're just too busy. They've got other stuff going on in their life, or they had a great intention.
They were going to sign the agreement so we could move forward. And then, well, you know, their daughter gets sick, and they completely forget about it because they have something more urgent happen in their life. Many would just let that lead fall by the wayside, but with some steady and consistent feedback or follow-up, you know, that will eventually convert, even though it may not convert tomorrow, like you and I might want to have that happen. It might take months in order for it to finally happen.
I think that's one of the biggest things that people in sales generally underestimate is the amount of follow-up that needs to take place. I know I used to really struggle with it. You know, again, yes, it's a different industry, but the process is the same. I often found it difficult because what you tend to do is you get someone, you know, when you get people, as ever, at varying degrees of purchase.
And, you know, if you catch someone really early on, I found, and it was frustrating, really frustrating at the time, but I found that sometimes I wouldn't actually begin working with them for a year. It could be a year before they even come near me. And I didn't realize at the time that a lot of it was around learning about me. They were spending the time learning to trust me, and I just didn't get that.
You know, I was so keen to sell this thing, and it becomes so, again, it becomes so dejecting when someone says, well, no, it's not right. But when they keep saying it, when they keep saying it, you've got to have some real gusto to keep going back, haven't you? I think you're absolutely right. I would imagine people just fall by the wayside when they don't do that.
Yeah, they do. And, you know, the key to it all is having a big pipeline, right? Because if you know that the numbers work, then all you have to do is say, okay, like let's say in your instance, say that you're at your company, you need three new clients, you know, in the next quarter. Well, you know from history how many you're going to typically have to talk to to get those three.
So then you get busy growing a pipeline big enough so that the numbers work for you. Too many people try to get too far with too little, and then they get frustrated, and they wonder why they're having trouble paying the bills or whatever. So instead of trying to milk out of or force things to happen sooner than they're ready, just go out and get excited about prospecting. And trust me, you'll have more business than you can ever fathom.
The challenge is oftentimes we believe what our clients or prospective clients are telling us instead of watching their actions. You know, you've heard it said before, you know, your actions speak so loudly to what you say I can't hear. People will tell you a lot of times what you want to hear and they may even mean it. But once again, their actions are what is really important and is really what you should be watching to see, OK, are we going to convert these folks anytime soon or are they just not willing to tell me what they're really thinking and going to lead me along?
You know, that reminds me of a conversation I had with a good friend, Keith Evans. He was one of the very, very earliest guests on Excellence Expected, maybe sort of as early as episode five or six. And Keith works in the arena of innovation, coaching business owners. And he always says the same thing, he says, you know, if I ever see that I've got a quiet patch coming around, I've got a lean period coming, the first thing that I do is I start having coffee with as many people as I can.
And, you know, for a long time I thought, well, OK, that's kind of nice in theory, but realistically, how can you make time for that? And what you said there, Matt, he's absolutely right, the more prospecting you do, the more you fill that pipeline just to allow the numbers to work for themselves, then the better you're going to do. So again, I think so many business owners that I see and that I talk to, they kind of do this too late, you know, so they may have a lean patch coming up next month instead of in the next quarter or the next six months because I'm left it too late. And then they go into this sales overdrive mode.
They go into this, I can have a coffee, but actually I really want to sell you something and it's so blatantly obvious what's going on. I love what you're saying there, Matt, which is you just be genuine, don't be in a rush, just trust the numbers and let it play through the system. Is that, you know, when you think back to when you first started doing that, was that a lesson you had to learn or were you fortunate enough to just understand that from day one? No, I had to learn it, Mark, because here's the thing.
I was in a position where, man, there was many times I didn't know where the next, you know, where the next rent payment was going to come from. Well, so, you know, you can't pay rent on a maybe or on, you know, a good vibe from a client. You pay it on actual clients and actual money exchanging hands. So I couldn't sit around and wait for those people to come around to say yes or to sign that agreement.
I had to continue to go out and work to find the ones who were going to make it happen now or else I would have been out on the street along with my wife and my three kids. So it was out of necessity more than anything that I had to learn those lessons. And, of course, today, you know, it's a lot easier to apply those concepts because we've been able to work through all that over a number of years. Yeah, absolutely.
And speaking of lessons, sir, we are going to switch gear now. We are going to move into the famous Excellence Expected Actionable Takeaway section. So I'm pretty much convinced myself that this is a fantastic way to create a secondary income to take those eggs out of one basket and spread them around. I think that this has got me excited.
And that really happens because I see so many things come across the desk. So I think this is really, really interesting. For anyone listening out there, for you guys that want to dig into this, Matt has put together three actionable takeaways. So, Matt, let's dig into the first actionable tip that will help people move into their own vending stream.
Yeah, Mark, the first thing, actionable tip number one would be get educated on the types of vending. There's a bunch of different types out there. We've discussed many of them already. For me, I needed equipment that I didn't have to deal with.
It was very easy to use. It was very expensive. I only had about $100 in my name when I got started in this thing 10 years ago. So I ended up going the bulk route.
But like I said, there's a lot of different types of vending out there today. So get educated on the types of vending. Actionable tip number two is start small. Purchase some used equipment to begin with.
Don't worry about getting the most flashy, the most glamorous, the most this or that. Man, take a small risk to begin with, with something that you can afford. Test the markets. You know, learn the process.
And then you can invest the bigger money and more expensive equipment and other things later once you've proven the concept for you. Too many people say, man, I'm going to get started in business. And the first thing they want to do is they want to drop $5,000 on some big, fancy piece of equipment that if you really run the numbers, it's going to take them years to pay for. But it's kind of an ego thing, right?
And well, man, I just bought five grand worth of equipment versus me who spent 35 or 38 bucks on my first gumball machine. I could have turned around and sold that gumball machine for more than what I paid for it the day that I got it. So just be wise in the decisions that you're making. You got to crawl.
Then you can walk. Then you can run. And that's very, very important in business. And of course, in what we do to inventing.
Number three, begin prospecting immediately. Go out there and start to figure out where your locations are going to be, who you're going to end up working with and start testing the waters. You can oftentimes figure out where your first locations are going to be before you've even spent a lick of money. You just got to be willing to go out, know enough to be dangerous, and then start figuring things out as you go.
That third one really hits on. Begin prospecting immediately. Learn as you go. I see so many people stuck in research mode.
So many people stuck in theory mode. And just really digging into it, which is fantastically admirable. And I think I love that people do that. I've got the willingness to do that.
But unless you start actually doing it, you're never going to sell anything. You don't have a business until you're selling something. And that, I often find, is the biggest hurdle. And a lot of it, I guess, is fear.
A lot of it is a lack of confidence. And the fear of being turned away, especially when it's a sales-oriented product. But you just got to get out there. You just got to get that thing done.
You just got to dive in. And as Matt said, just learn as you go along. Matt, that has been unbelievably insightful. I really, really enjoyed that.
It's testament to it. When almost half an hour has passed, and we feel like we've been chatting for about 15 seconds. So that has been superb. Thank you so much for that.
And just before we stick a pin in it, where is the best place for people to connect with you online, please, sir? Yeah, Mark. My email is matt, M-A-T-T, at ssvbusiness.com. And if it's all right with you, I'd love to do a giveaway for your audience.
I've got a short e-book. It's called Live Your Dreams, The Top 10 Reasons Why You Need to Start a Vending Business. And if they go to ssvbusiness.com forward slash EE for excellence expected, they can download that for free. And we can potentially begin a dialogue about what we do at School Spirit Vending and our franchise.
Or if they just want some basic information about vending, I'd love to get them headed in the right direction. Love it, Matt. Thank you. That's amazing.
And guys, do not hesitate. If you are looking to create a secondary income stream, just dig in. What have you got to lose? Do it today.
Do it today. Check it out. We'll get all the links into the show notes, so don't worry about missing those. Matt, thank you so much, sir.
That's really genuinely been such an honor to talk to. Thank you, Mark. I appreciate the opportunity to be on the show. Always fun, sir.
Always fun. And guys, as I said, don't forget, everything will be over on the show notes at excellence-expected.com. And whilst you're over there, don't forget that you know this already. There's a pile of information for you.
There are so many resources. We've now got a library of e-books. We've got small business videos. We've got a world of small business actionable contents waiting for you over on the website at excellence-expected.com.
Thank you so much for listening. It's always a pleasure talking to you. It's always a pleasure talking to people, fantastic entrepreneurs like Matt. And until next time, don't forget, the more you expect from yourself, the more you will be sent.
Adios.