Do you struggle in relationships?

This is a Global Player Original Podcast. Hello, I'm Katie Refwick. And I'm Sam Pritis, and welcome to our new podcast, You're Wrong About ADHD. No, you are.

No, you are. No, you are. Mrs. Stupid.

Stop it. Sam and I have been friends for nearly 20 years, and a couple of years ago, we both found out we have ADHD. But I think it's fair to say we feel very differently about this. Getting an ADHD diagnosis, answered lots of questions, but also raised new ones.

Each week we're going to be talking about everything from our experiences being diagnosed as adults, to relationships, coping strategies, and how we manage these very special brains. So we can learn more about ADHD and what it means to be neurodivergent. Hello, Katie. How are you?

I don't have to answer that question. I feel completely overwhelmed, actually. It's been a big week, doesn't it? It has.

It's been amazing. It's been so exciting and thrilling and interesting to hear so many other people's stories, actually. Definitely. It's been really important to us to share our stories, but at the same time, you're always slightly concerned about how people are going to respond to those, and we've had some fantastic responses, some really lovely responses from people who have, as you said, shared their own stories with us, which has been really touching, actually.

Yeah, including lots of people who are waiting to find out if they have ADHD and aren't, you know, one of those people sitting on a waiting list somewhere and trying to get treated, and it's really good to know that we are building a community of people that need to be in touch with each other. We all need to be aware of each other and find strength in numbers, actually. Yeah, and I think it's interesting to hear stories about what drives people towards diagnosis, and what we want to talk about today is the thing that drove me to my diagnosis. We're going to talk about relationships.

How do you feel about that today? Well, I feel nervous, I'll be honest. Oh gosh, this is a really big subject, isn't it? Because ADHD has a massive impact on relationships, you know, parent-child relationships, sibling friendships, but most importantly, are marital relationships are partner relationships in the home.

And it's only really now that I'm beginning to realise how much that's the case. I met my husband at school and we went to uni together, we went together that entire time, we got back together after uni, we've been together ever since. I have what I consider to be a good relationship, but actually, as I sit here today knowing who we're about to meet, I'm beginning to realise. Have I actually asked the right questions about it?

I don't know. Well, maybe we're going to start asking some different questions. I mean, for me, it is absolutely the thing that drove me to get diagnosed. I mean, I met my wife at work.

We've been married for seven years. I've got two children. And her seeing my ADHD, or at least the fallout from it, is the thing that sort of led me to a counsellor to say maybe you need to think about getting an ADHD diagnosis. And it was anger and confusion, and I've spoken before in previous episodes about how emotional dysregulation is a big problem for me with my ADHD, and getting really confused with situations and getting physically uncomfortable, and then getting really angry because I'm so confused.

I'm not necessarily angry with my wife, I can be angry with the fork that's falling on the floor. And for me, it's gone. It's a burst. And for her, suddenly to say, I didn't particularly enjoy that outburst of anger, what on earth is going on for you?

And then there becomes this incredible feeling of guilt where you think, here's this person I love, and I'm just trying to cope with whatever's going on inside me, and they're sort of subjected to it is how it feels. And there's this incredible guilt that comes with that. There's a hell of a lot of guilt. And I have one other really, really big question that I really want to talk about as well, which is the role of the role ADHD plays in the life of a woman, an aura mother or a housewife with ADHD.

Now maybe I'm looking at that from my 51 year old perspective, and maybe if you're 25 and you're a woman with ADHD, things are different these days. Do you know what? I really hope they're different these days. But certainly for me and my generation, there's an expectation to live a certain way, to be groomed, to be tidy, to be a great cook, to be a hostess, to also have a fabulous career and be a great mum.

And actually ADHD makes every single one of those things really hard. And again, it's a dangerous question for a man to ask, but how true do you think that is? And how much do you think that is what you've taken on board? You see what I mean?

How much is that? Oh, I don't doubt it's true because I don't doubt it's true. You see what I mean? How much is that pressure from outside?

How much is that pressure that you put on yourself? Oh, I see. Sorry, I should have asked that question very well. Yeah, no, no, no, no.

I think it's, do you know what? I think a lot of it comes from the pressure from the generation above us. You know, I'm aware that grandparents when they come into the home judge that space, and I'm to blame, not husband. And so I know that when it comes to fixing it, we fix it together.

He's great, and he's wonderful in that he does all the cooking in our house. Thank God, because otherwise, I wouldn't make it to him. And there's so much that he gets stuck into. I would say that the burden is definitely 50-50.

But I also know that when you, if you were to ask a big grandparents about that, they would be troubled by the fact that he's expected to do as much as he is. Really? And I feel guilty that he's expected to do as much as he is. And then I think, hang on a minute, I'm a feminist.

I believe that these things should be split, and the fact that they are is a good thing. So it's complicated, isn't it? Yeah, it is. And I would say my wife and I have a really good split.

I mean, we do, you know, we share the childcare, and we both work. But there's certainly a recognition that my ADHD has, at least in the past, hopefully not so much now, but certainly has put extra pressure on her. Do you think that's true? Do you think she does more than you?

I don't think necessarily that's true now. I think when I was going through diagnosis and I hit rock bottom, and I actually couldn't really function. Absolutely, there was more pressure on her. And I've been through, the drugs didn't work for me.

The medication for ADHD didn't work for me. So I went through quite an intensive period of what's called DBT therapy. And that's really helped me. It's helped me deal with that anger and confusion.

We both have an understanding of what ADHD is now, and we can often see what's going on for me. But even then, there's still a sense that we both have to be aware of me and what I'm doing. And it does feel like a slight imbalance to me. Even just something similar, like interrupting, which is ironic.

But it's that it's that care and child relationship almost, isn't it? That's I think that's what I'm feeling guilty about today, having sort of checked out our guest's website and realized that I've probably haven't been asking the questions I should have been asking or thinking about the things I should have been thinking about. So that's just more guilt to carry and feel responsible for. You know, ADHD is all about failure sometimes.

And ADHD is all about failure, isn't it? And letting people down. And I just wonder if this is just another thing where I'm letting people let my husband down. Well, you don't think about your ADHD.

You don't think it's about failure? I don't on a good day. But when it comes to relationships and leaning on people, maybe I feel differently. See, this is a role reversal because I think with ADHD, what I said earlier is I feel like I took responsibility for it.

I felt like I went, you know what? This relationship is in a difficult position because of something that's going on for me. I found out that I think that could be ADHD. Right?

I found out that is ADHD. Right? I need to do something about it. And now my wife and I can work on that together.

I think that's a thing. I think that's taking massive responsibility. I agree. I absolutely agree with that.

And I also know that if I were to actually sit down and really think about this, I also know that I believe that I take responsibilities for some really key aspects of not just our marriage, but how we run our home and looking after our kids and all those sorts of things. You know, I know that I do enough. I do. I do do enough.

But I suppose it's, do you know what it is? Do you know what it boils down to? That's sense that if we were to deconstruct our married life and our family life and put it completely apart, so we lived on our own, who would do better? Who would survive better?

And I think I think Robbie would. Was not competition? No, I know it isn't. But that makes me feel bad because that makes me feel like he's doing more like he's doing too much.

And honestly, there's a fear that if he listens to this, he will think that himself. Of course he won't. And also, do you know what? That's about needing each other and being in a relationship.

And that's what he's there for. There's only wrong with that. No, I know. Well, God, so many questions.

Lots of questions. So maybe we should introduce our guest. I think it's time. Oh, God.

We're going to be speaking. We're going to be speaking. Always a joy sound to have a chat with you. Always a joy.

Bringing the mood up. Lots of questions to ask. So coming up, we're going to be speaking to Karen Doherty. Couple of Ferris and Coaches specialises and couples impacted by neurodiversity.

Hi, Karen. Nice to be here. It's really lovely to have you, actually, because I was having a look at your website last night and it suddenly kind of, it suddenly made me shine a light turn the mirror back on my relationship with my husband. Probably haven't done that very much over the last year.

It's all been about me. I'm very action. That's quite a bit too. Well, well admitted.

Well done. He's dressed. He's such a good man. But he just stays quiet and doesn't complain about it.

But it's that unusual? It's difficult to tell. It's not unusual, but it's really difficult to tell. You know, that post diagnosis phase is tricky.

Very, very tricky for all involved really. In what ways? Well, you've got the three processes. You've got your processes.

You've been newly diagnosed. And whether it was a positive or a negative, you're going to be off on your own sort of, you know, your own journey there. And then you've got your husband or wife is doing what they've got to do to understand and see how that's going to impact them and how it has impacted them. If they're more neurotypical, there'll be a lot of baggage and legacy, which is quite difficult.

You know, hurt, disappointment. It's quite difficult because they're still carrying that. Sometimes it's a ray of hope, the diagnosis, a couple. A lot of times it's a ray of hope.

But the other process that's going on is that couple, that couple dynamic, which is obviously impacted by a diagnosis, but it has its history. And now it's got to know how to go forward. It's interesting you said that because my wife, one of the things I'm talking to the other day about it, but something she said consistently is that she remembers being in a situation, certainly wants to have the diagnosis when she's been in a situation. And so I certainly wanted to have the diagnosis where I've only gone off with her loved one.

And I was in pretty much Christ's point. I got very depressed. I had a lot of grief about my life. I didn't know how to process this diagnosis.

And there was no information for her as how to help me and what to do. She sort of felt like she was on her own with someone who was in crisis. Is that something that you see a lot when you're dealing with couples? I used to.

That was the norm. I used to see that all the time. Much less now, social media has got hold of the whole ADHD subject. So it's much less because people do do their research.

The spouses do do do their research. They're out there looking trying to make sense of it all, not always the best resources. In terms of that, I mean, that's just thinking about the emotional pressure of that because we had a session with somebody once who sort of said to my wife, in not exact terms, you sort of just got to go and bear it and suck it up, which creates quite a big imbalance in a relationship, doesn't it? I mean, you're talking about the spouse going and doing some research, but actually having a relationship of equality, that creates quite an issue when it's saying you go away, do some research, but lots of effort into finding out how to manage me.

And some guilt for you as well. Yes, of course. And that must be a big pressure point in the relationship. I'd be really surprised if anybody would say that these days.

That is just not how it's meant to be dealt with at all. You know, it's it's find out some bad news or good news. I mean, ultimately, it'll be good news. I think you'll agree that.

Yes. Great news when you finally come to terms with the diages. Exactly when you finally get it. Yes, you react and it may be positive.

It may be negative. Ultimately, it's positive in your life. Absolutely. It's a light bulb moment because you are suddenly able to put in jigsaw puzzle pieces that you have not been able to find for years and years.

That's right. Suddenly, the picture makes sense. It makes sense. Some people have moved into grief.

Some people have terrible losses. I mean, we both talked about that. And that's quite dependent on how old they are. Okay.

How come? Well, if you're getting diagnosed at 56, you've lost a marriage already. You're still a little bit lost. There's a lot to process with that.

And that's not uncommon. How do you maintain an equal balance in a relationship? But also say, by the way, one of you has got particular set of needs. What's the way that you go about addressing that balance or help the couple to address that balance?

That's a large part of the work is re-addressing the balance of power in a couple. Melissa Olov has spoken a lot about a parent care type relationship. I prefer to refer to it as an inequality that has emerged over the years within the relationship. There'll be somebody that is more capable in life than the other one and carries the other one.

And that has to be addressed. That has to be addressed because that is part of the reason why the relationships go so badly wrong. Without diagnosis and without the knowledge, that inequality starts to eat away. So quite a lot of the work that I do is around getting couples to take responsibility for their part.

Can I just say here, the person with the ADHD, yes, that's one part. But the spouse is in it. They chose it. They're theirs.

So what is going on? It's one of the things that I always thought it makes me think it is part of the guilt process is that I think about my life with my ADHD makes sense now. I know what I've got. A lot of it is in my head.

So much of my life is spent in my head. So much of it is a sort of separate thought track while everything else is going on. It makes it quite difficult to always appreciate someone else in a relationship. I've mentioned my wife, but actually I think about my relationships with friends growing up.

I didn't necessarily realize that the other person in the relationship needed me as much as I needed them because I was selfish. No, no, you're not selfish. You're wired in a particular way. But it creates a selfishness, doesn't it?

It creates a difference. Yes, you don't relate to people in the same way that a neurotypical would relate to them. That doesn't mean you don't care as much. Maybe that you don't demonstrate the care as much.

Or it may mean that you overcare in some circumstances. So you're too much of a friend in some circumstances. Too willing to help or please. But selfish I don't like.

That's a bit of a negative. I think once you know that you have ADHD and that's a proclivity, then you can go some way to actually communicating that if you're absent for a while, I will come back. A couple's counseling and couple's therapy. Can it always fix a relationship?

Is there ever a circumstance where it's totally the wrong approach, actually they're holding it together and don't crack it open and look at it too closely because then it makes them do copy. They wouldn't be in the room. They wouldn't be in the room if they didn't want it cracked open. And yes, there are some relationships that have gone too far.

And the hope then is that I can help them separate nicely because the separations can be extraordinary acrimonious. And if kids are involved. And the hope is that I can help in that process, which I do. But in the main people are seeking help because they want to save it.

So a small percentage can't be saved yet. It's gone too far. It's interesting. We were spoken to various experts while we've been doing this podcast.

And one of the points it was recently was people tend to get diagnosed when they reach crisis point because their life is falling apart and they can't manage. And that tends to be the point where they go, I'm going to seek a diagnosis of ADHD. And presumably that's a similar thing for you. People, they come to you because they've reached the stage where this is no longer sustainable.

It's not tenable. Yeah, they've got to change it. And you've talked briefly about some of the things that you put in place when a couple comes to you. What are, you know, I suppose we take a hypothetical couple.

What are some of the things that you might suggest? What are some of the measures that people take to redress that balance? So I suppose the first port of call is education. It's actually finding out what they know about ADHD or AS, neurodiversity generally.

And what are the prevalent bits in your couple? What really impact your couple? Because that changes the picture. Not everybody has the same levels of emotional dysregulation.

And they may react differently to that. So the first port of call really is sort of dissecting. How does it affect your couple? How do the symptoms affect your couple dynamic?

And which symptoms are the one that affected the most? And once you've got that sort of piece of work done, I do do quite a lot of education around that. Where did you get your resources wrong? How does it, what do you think about it?

And the spouse as well, getting the spouse on board to understand. And then it's very often, I very often work with incidents. You know, people will come in and say, oh, you don't know what's happened this week. And they'll tell me what's happened.

Okay. And that'll be really, really helpful and interesting because I can dissect it and I can give them two interpretations. Okay. So we have one that, you know, this could all be from your family background and your modelling and your psychodynamic background.

But let's put the neurodiverse lens on it. Let's have a look at which, what symptoms are coming up here? What's actually happening here? Did you get triggered?

How was your emotional dysregulation? How did it play out? When did you come back from it? All of those things.

So it's a bit of both. And it's sort of using, using the couple's experience to identify, educate and highlight what's going on for them. And then strategies, of course there are strategies. I mean, they're all over the social media, the strategies.

But there's something about working with a couple independently in a bespoke way that gives them the strategies that they need. It's interesting to say that because I mean, the big thing for me was emotional dysregulation. I found that was a hallmark of my behaviour that led me to get diagnosed. I would sort of go and go and go and then I would crash, go and go and then I would crash.

And it would be shutting myself away for days at a time. When I was married, suddenly that no longer came feasible. When we had two small children, volatile emotions, extremes of feeling suddenly, I was in an environment where I needed to regulate that. Desperately wanted to regulate that but couldn't.

And I think one of the things that's been really helpful about diagnosis for me is that my wife and I can see things coming down the track. Yes, that's right. So you can say you haven't eaten for eight hours or you've been focused on doing that bit of DIY for two days. Exactly.

And you need to take a break and we need to recognise that maybe I'm getting a bit chippy and that's because I'm getting stressed and that's not necessarily a personal attack on her. And that just takes the wind out of yourselves but it just takes their sting out of everything a bit. Totally. That is how you manage it.

And it's so great for a couple of managers together because your spouse will probably see it coming way before you see it coming. If there's really good communication between the two of you and all the signaling, you know, sort of the thing. If you've worked it all out or worked for somebody like me that gives you these strategies that you both agree on. You've got your code words, you've got your numbers, you've got all of your tapping and all of the things that you may need to be able to indicate to one another what's going on.

And you both agree to it. They're not being weaponised in some way because that can be very tricky. But it works brilliantly because you can help each other. You can forewarn.

For warn is for warned and then you can manage it better. Manage it better. That is a better way. And it gives you tools.

It's self-knowledge. I mean all self-knowledge is helpful. Yes. Do you have something that I wondered?

Pintressing to know what your experience of this is. One of the things about ADHD we all know is about the buzz. And I know certainly some of my best relationships when I was a child were with people who didn't know so well because they were new and they were fun. And you maybe it was at work or maybe it was at school.

And I wonder how much that plays into relationships whereby someone with ADHD might be really excited and I love this person. This person's great and then excitement sort of disappeared. Do you see that? All the time.

All the time. All the time. And it is a problem. It is a problem in neurodiverse relationships actually.

There's early days of the passion, romance, hyper stimulation, excitement. Those early days are very intoxicating. And there's a pattern actually. That excitement really, really brings them together.

And there's quite a long period where couples come very close together and very close to merging. And then they start to demerge usually as the ADHD starts to find other stimulation, find other things and get bored out. But it's not the be all and end of. Now hold on.

Some couples stay like that for a very long time. They stay merged. What will break that will be the children. What will be the hard work and the work and actually the relentlessness of young children particularly.

The shifts, the change, the differences in attention. So the ADHD spas might not be the focus for the other spas who's very, very preoccupied with babies and has business and just life. And there can be a sort of a they'll be a parting of the ways then. And that's quite difficult and that can very often go too far the other way.

So they've been very, very close together and then they come very far apart. And that is a really common factor. I know you could argue that that's the same with any couple. And yes, I agree.

It's the same with any couple, but it's more intense. There's an intensity to these relationships that is slightly different to. That's a feature that has come up a lot in the conversations we've had is that lots of things we're talking about are common to everybody and common to relationships. But ADHD is an extreme view of it.

It's an extreme version of it. It is when that difficulty starts to impact your life and starts to make relationships impossible. And that's the difference. Yes, that's the difference.

Exactly. And children for us were definitely the point. I mean, we had our second daughter in the middle of the pandemic and it was incredibly stressful time. And I couldn't manage.

And I desperately wanted to manage. And I couldn't do it. I just I would fall apart. I got really depressed.

I couldn't think straight. I had a small tiny baby. I was trying to change his nappy. And I could not make my head do what I needed to do.

And I then obviously become needy. I then created emotional need in that situation. My wife is a two-year-old brand new baby and her husband is an emotional wreck. And so that is where I'm really thankful that we said we need to seek diagnosis.

We need to seek help. And we need to keep pushing this until we can get a solution. But it was a really, really hard fight. And there must be so many people who go, I haven't got a fight for this anymore.

Or don't recognise that they need to go. I mean, so many people wouldn't necessarily kind of ask that question. Would they? And that's at least you had the self knowledge to know that this to recognise it, to look at it and then go and talk something about it.

You know, that's a good thing. You did. You actually sought help. And that would have saved you.

It's particularly difficult. I see quite a lot of couples really struggling in those early years of children. And especially if there are other coexisting conditions, not just ADHD, but you might have other conditions that make it even more difficult. If depression lands.

And that's very difficult for the spouse who might even have her own depression. So, you know, it's a very tricky, complicated mixture. One of the things I really like to talk about is women diagnosed with ADHD, there is a pressure on women to be the perfect housewife. I have a beautiful home that looks amazing.

It's always keen and tidy with fabulous kids in press shirts and all these things. And I know as an ADHD woman who's tried to do all of those things, that often I fail. Now, I happen to be married to. Well, yeah, this is a surprise.

But I happen to be married to a man who is very, very happy to share the household chores with me. And I believe that that's absolutely right and as it should be. But I'm sure there are many relationships where that's not the case. And is there a kind of gendered difficulty for some couples with ADHD because of the expectation of the workload on the woman?

I think, yeah, I think lots of couples might suffer from a gendered approach. I mean, it's not, I don't know. I find that question quite difficult because I don't see that gender thing quite so much or quite so clearly as you see it, you know, men and women can be messy all over the place. Men can want the same sort of status, you know, status symbols like clean house, nice clothes, good kids.

They can want the same as women. So the expectation is not the same on them to do it and to provide it. It tends to be on women to do those jobs. I mean, you know, whenever we talk about the percentage of work within the home, but it's done by, I'm obviously talking about, you know, heteronormative relationships.

That's a huge advantage. I'm talking about it from my point of view. That's that sense of in those particular relationships, women do most of the housework. Or in these expectations, they do.

I think that's what we're saying. Because actually my life and I share things and my life works and we have a sort of, you know, I'd like to think of an equal partnership. But yes, in terms of expectation culturally still, I think there is still an expectation. Certainly for my age group and up.

I mean, why is this your age group? Yeah, it's a generational thing. You know, but it's true. And you know, certainly my mother and my mother would still tell me how lucky I am that I have a man who cooks, you know, and so is there amongst my generation then, is there ever that difficulty for a husband who finds out that his wife has got ADHD?

I suppose I'm asking you really, because maybe there's a little bit of guilt for me that I realise, part of the reason why Robert has had to step up so much, my husband, is because I just can't handle it all. I can't do it. Yes, that's right. And yes, and part of the reason if you were a female with ADHD, you might have stepped up to organise other things other than the working life of the man.

You know, yes, you do step up, people do. And in couples, that's exactly what we try to do when we're working with the couple, when I'm working with couples, is try to get them to play to their strengths. So your strength isn't tidy. No.

It's just not. So let it go. Let's do it. It's just not.

And he's been great in that he's come up to the fore and he obviously doesn't mind. Whether that's caused any resentment, that's the type of thing that comes out in the therapy. Okay. That sort of, you know, that renegotiation of, yes, I've been put into this place.

Because very often the women that I see, very often, if I've got a male ADHD, the women are really overworked, not just because they're doing all of the housework and all of those jobs you've just mentioned, but because they're also organising him. And that's exactly what your Robbie's doing. He's doing exactly the same. He's doing exactly the same.

So I, yeah, playing to the strengths, we just have to capitalise on that and take out of it any resentment that might be harbouring. Almost certain things that we started thinking about being in my head, one of the things I've really found works for me, particularly with my children, is to almost inhabit or imagine I'm inhabiting their heads. So for me, actually, to say, can I take a step back, can I almost slow myself down? Because so much of this is me just going and going and going.

And to say, maybe my daughter's done something or some accidents happen or I'm starting to get impatient, trying to just say, what's going on in her head? Or my wife has said something, okay, what does she mean by that? Because what happens if ADHD is so often, it's just an immediate reaction to what you see rather than being able to stop and say, actually, what was going on there? And is there a bit more space for more conceiving response?

Well, the pausing is absolutely vital. But then you can possibly move into assumption. And that gets really complicated. If you start because of the overthinking, because of the sensitivity levels, the sensory processing, which is so finely tuned, if you're trying to imagine something, then it very quickly moves into assumption.

And that's dangerous because whole relationships can be destroyed by assuming intention, action on the other parties. So you have to be very careful, I think. I think what I did, of course, of DBT, which I'm really, really effective. And one of the things I learned on that was to have that pause to try and inhabit somebody else in terms of empathizing with them or sympathizing with them, but not to assume what they think.

So I totally recognize that because I think when you have a row, it's typical, you suddenly stress your heat level, those up to 100. And suddenly it's they've done this because they're always like this and they have me. And suddenly you think, no, this is one instance where somebody's done something which is when we're up. And what I need to do is slow myself down so that I don't jump to conclusion or a rash reaction.

The escalations that are so damaging, but that's the first piece. If a couple comes in and they're experiencing a lot of those, that's one of the first pieces is to try and stop them, try and get them to just walk away from them, try and get them to code word, move away, and then come back. Come back the next day and actually what was going on for you, rather than just assume, always come back and have that conversation about what happened. What were you feeling?

How were you feeling? It doesn't sound like you have a lot of arguments with your spouse. Oh, you do. You do.

You would ask my children that they would disagree with that statement. Okay. But they tend to be flashpoints that we then resolve. I wouldn't resolve as an interesting word because I don't think we resolve them.

We have them and then they're gone. Yes. Okay. I think, you know, I have that.

You don't hold on to them. The couple's not holding on to them. It's not holding on to them. It's just true.

It's just true. Just now. Absolutely. In the now.

Absolutely. No. No. No.

Yes. Yeah. It's all in the now. That's the problem for Robbie because I found in my relationship my wife that something will happen, I'll move on and suddenly I'm just watching television and that's left a mark on the other side and that should be needed to resolve that.

Aww. That's very nice. He really likes that aspect of me. That fact that I don't hold onto something.

You know, yesterday we might have had a round but today I won't hold that against him. against him, which I think he has always traditionally seen as something that women can be a bit capable of, you know, can bear grudges and, you know, and hold on to those sorts of things. Okay, so for him, it's a real positive that you wake up the next day and it's all on. Five minutes later, I don't bear grudges.

I never have. I don't. It is an ADHD. It's not an ADHD.

And again, again, you know, Sam and I have a different attitude to our ADHD. I think that's a wonderful thing, not to bear a grudge. I think, you know, to be able to move on and I'm hearing. I'm hearing that actually, sometimes you need to work things right before you do.

The danger of that is actually sometimes there's a situation where I may be upset somebody and I've forgotten the particular need to sort it out. And you need to apologize or at least make good and understand. Okay. Yes.

All right. And there's another consequence to that actually. You move on and your partner doesn't actually cross you or doesn't come back to you and say, what was that about you've hurt me? But just occasionally, just occasionally, that lands and it stays.

And I can't tell you when people come into the room full of that resentment, those things that have happened to them, there's a lot of quite unfiltered stuff that goes on when there's an emotional escalation, which can hurt those types of episodes stay in the mind of the spouses. In both spouses, actually, because you say you don't bear a grudge, but I'll almost guarantee that you will have events. I don't even say. I don't think it's all set for you.

Yeah. Things that go over and over and over in my head. But that's not to do with me feeling being hurt. That's to do with me saying something that I might have settled on to someone else.

And then I feel terrible about it. It'll wake me up at three o'clock in the morning and that will go around in my head. I'll be thinking about that in six or seven years time. Yes.

Just, you know. Yeah. Yeah. But nothing happens.

You don't get hurt. You don't. Are there not events? Because my experience is that actually, well, there's no grudges.

There's no grudges held. There will have been things sort of incidents that have happened in the past, either with friendships or with a husband. And they're the oddest things, but they stick with the ADHD partner. Yeah.

They stick with that partner. The more neurotypical has no idea at all that they have that they have pierced the heart of their partners. But they have done and it was, of course, 21 years ago. Do you not remember when you said that to me?

And it's quite odd. No, I do recognize that. I think carrying things around because things get out of proportion. And therefore you carry things around either that, you know, the something I said to a girl at school 25 years ago, was that something about that?

Or, you know, something that happened to me that I still I can still feel the same feeling about. Exactly. So you haven't forgotten, you see, you didn't move on from that. So there's...

That's very true. Yeah. Yeah. But on a day to day, perfect, they're both of you get up and you're not bearing any grudges and you get on with the day, you've just got to look over your shoulder and say, you all right?

Check with your partner. Is that okay? That we're okay? Is that okay?

I think we've probably talked to you all day, but I think we're probably near and end of our time. It does seem to me that the... This sounds an obvious thing to say, but the key word is communication, isn't it? Absolutely.

And with ADHD, I know that's the same for any couple, but with ADHD, it's learning perhaps a new way to communicate or learning that maybe I communicate in a slightly different way. Yes. And it's getting both partners in the relationship to agree on a new form of communication. Both together.

It's so much easier if you've got both people because they can feed off each other and it's very nice to see a couple really understanding something that they didn't. And they're quite excited about this. It's like a whole new piece to their relationship. It's a new face.

It's very exciting and very lovely. Oh, that's lovely. It's really... It's been really lovely to meet you.

Really positive way to end the conversation. Thank you. I appreciate your time. Thank you.

Well, how did you feel about that? I found that really useful. I did. I really did.

One thing that's made me realise is that I need to pay more attention to my relationship with my husband and it's made me sort of sit up and take notes and that can only be a good thing. He's got to come at the top of my little pyramid of whose needs I serve, you know, and not forget how important he is. Which I think is something anybody in any relationship would say. But I think the thing that really struck me is how...

You know, I talked at the beginning about how I've had therapy and how we've really tried to understand my ADHD so that our relationship works really well. I've got a great relationship with my wife, but it is one of those things where, I think, just talking to Karen, I realised how much of an imbalanced ADHD can create if you don't take it into account and you don't understand what's going on. Yeah, and you talk about your therapy and you said something which I found really interesting, which was about not assuming what the other person thinks. I think I Karen told me not to assume.

I think I said maybe that I assumed too much. But I do that all the time and actually I jump to conclusions, I take offence, I assume all sorts of negative things in conversation or in relationships not just with my husband but with friends and family and all sorts. And that's another thing is just to calm down and step back and take a breath and not assume you know everything. I totally agree with you, which is sort of what Karen said, isn't it?

It's all about communication and part of communication is listening to people, reacting to people rather than just going on transmit, which I think we can all do with ADHD. Speaking of communication, how's this for a link? Lots of people have been getting in touch. See what I do.

Oh, that's so smooth. Love it. They have, which is really cool and it's been great to hear your stories. And if you are listening and you would like to drop us a line, we'd really love to hear from you and we have a brand new email address.

So exciting. It is ADHDPodcast.com. Let me tell you that again. ADHDpodcast.com at global.com.

Send your questions, send your stories and we'll look at some of them, answer some of them on the podcast. That's everything from us for today. You can listen to your wrong about ADHDP for free on Global Player. Download it from the app store or go to globalplayer.com.

See you next time.