Doris Burke and Eddie Johnson

And now below post. Welcome to the low post podcast on a Thursday afternoon. It's gloomy. It's foggy.

The snow we had for two seconds is melting. There are 12 sleds in my yard. It's a graveyard of neighbor kid sleds. And it's time to talk about the Eastern Conference.

And when I think ESPN, and I think East, I think born in Long Island, Jersey Shore, Reveler back in her glory days, big East basketball star, current Northeast resident. And like all of us semi frequent visitors over the years to Cleveland and Milwaukee, two of the other teams are going to be talking about today. Hall of Famer, just the absolute best in every sense. Someone who makes me smile every time I interact with her, Doris Burke, it's so wonderful to see her face.

How are you? I am superb. And I'm just going to say this about all the sleds in your yard. You want to be the house as the parent that the kids come to.

That's a good thing. Let those sleds pile up with the bikes pile up in your yard. That's a very good thing. You know, we have a little down slope in our backyard.

That's perfect for sledding for anyone like age three to 10. By 10, you want the steeper hill. Even my daughter who's eight wants the steeper hill, but it's cool that everyone comes to her house. Let me tell you, the amount of hot chocolate going on, the amount of journeying my wife has to do from outside to inside to inside to outside.

The house is all wet and disgusting. But I'll tell you what I'm a lead at, Doris Burke. I'm an elite sledder. And as the heaviest guy in the household, I am the tracksetter.

I'm the one that's got to get out there and sit my fat ass on the sled and carve the path. That's so great. I was one of my favorite things. Like I remember buying both my kids for one Christmas, like snowboards and anything fast that would go down from the hill.

Thank God I had my children young because I could still semi-balance on a small hill. I love that stuff. To this day, I love that stuff. I don't ski.

I don't want to ski. I don't want to ski. People are trying to get me to ski. And I'm just like Larry David and Kirby are do's.

I don't want to do it. It's too much stuff. But I will sled. Doris Burke, you have on Saturday Milwaukee Philly in Milwaukee, I believe, right?

It is, yeah. We must start this podcast. And I say this after having done 15 TV shows in the last 10 days where the segment is always, well, what are the Lakers? What are the Lakers?

Do you think the Lakers can get in? Can the Lakers go on to run? There is a team with maybe the greatest basketball player in the world who has won 16 consecutive games of professional basketball. We can't even get them on TV other than a highlight package.

Demi Milwaukee Bucks, I picked to win the championship at the beginning of the year. They are up to now first in defense with a bullet. They have taken over from Cleveland and Memphis number one spot in defense. Chris Middleton is back coming off the bench still.

I was curious about that. I was going to ask you about that knowing we were talking about the Milwaukee Watch. He's 20 games in now being back now. I'm not sure if that's consecutive, but whatever.

I was going to ask you why you think they're continuing with that. Well, his health has been so precarious over the last two years and the start and stop of his comebacks every time something seems to send him back. I think they've been very cautious. It has extended long enough that in the past couple of days, I've asked people there.

I thought I thought this was going to be over by now. Is he just going to be a six man? And the response I get is laughing emojis and no, he's going to start again soon-ish, soon-ish maybe. But that's the soon-ish is what I've been hearing for a month now.

But yes, they're number one in defense. They just acquired J Crowder. They're starting five, I think, when they get serious is going to be holiday Middleton, Giannis. I think they'll keep Grayson Allen in there for his shooting.

I might try Conanthen, but I think they'll have Grayson Allen and Brook Lopez. They're next three off the bench are Conanthen in that scenario. Bobby Portis who's back, J Crowder just acquired. And that's before you get to Joe Ingalls or J Bon Carter who are probably 9 and 10 and both offer, I think, important skills for them.

All of a sudden, they look deep. They look versatile. They can play lots of different lineup types. And I don't know if it's just that they're in Milwaukee, if it's that Middleton's been injured for a lot of the year, if it's their 19th on offense, and people are like, well, that's weird.

But it's just not getting enough attention. Where do you- They're not 19th on offense anymore. They're averaging almost 124 points per game in this stretch. And Giannis was talking last night after the win about the ball's moving.

And we're getting multiple driving kicks. And it's flying around. And yeah, I can't wait to go back and watch it. And he said, we're playing with force.

Listen, when they were scuffling, and I'll even go back to their championship season, Zach, because you correct me if I'm wrong. But that whole run to the championship, it felt like their half court offense was sketchy. We know what they do defensively. But now all of a sudden, their offense is humming.

And you know, Matt Williams, our great research guy, he sends out that email every morning at some obscene hour. But what he did say in the bottom piece of his little wrap up about the Bucks. And I found it interesting after reading Giannis's comments, he said, the Bucks in their half quarter, basically playing faster. So their half court sets have gone from taking almost 16 seconds to about 14 and a half.

So they just feel different offensively. And one thing I would say, and I'd hope all of a sudden, because Mr. Perkins has said some interesting things, the MVP conversation is getting testy again. We have to start looking at Giannis.

I mean, there's seven and five without him. Yes, I know these missed 12 games. But what he's doing, I didn't realize he has the opportunity to become the first person in history to average 31 points, 12 rebounds, and five assists. If my note is correct, that's never happened.

He's closing that gap. And if he stays healthy and on the floor, that should be a hell of a race. You know, we might get to Tatum for a second later, because I do want to talk about Boston for just a second. He's averaging 30 points, nine rebounds, four and a half assists.

And I don't want to say he's becoming an afterthought in the MVP conversation. But it's like, it's like 39 and four and a half. And it's like, wait, how am I put him fourth, fifth? Like, maybe Ooka will be ahead of him.

It's like, it's insane. Yeah, Giannis is 31, 12, and five. And Milwaukee, to be clear, they are still 19th in offense. They've been better lately.

They were like 23rd, they're 19th in their 19th in the half court. I agree with you that they are surging. They've started to make threes. Ingles has helped with his passing off the bench.

And the stat that just is even though I know intuitively why this is, Giannis, Middleton, and Holiday, they're three best players. I've only played 123 minutes together the entire season. And with Middleton coming off the bench, there are some games where he only plays like two minutes with those other two guys. In the Middleton, Giannis pick and roll has been their go-to play since they came together.

Really, Drew has picked up a lot of that slack this year. But I kind of, Chris looks ready to me in recent games. He looks more like himself in terms of his lift, his confidence, his kind of snap on his jump shot. When they start playing those guys together more and with the added depth and looks, I think their offense will be good enough.

Their defense, I mean, so they're allowing for the season 109.1 points per 100 possessions. That's number one in the league. When they have Holiday, Giannis, and Lopez on the floor, if there is not a better threesome defensively than on Earth, not on Mars, not in the Milky Way on defense and those three guys, that number drops to 105.6. I mean, it's like a joke how good they are defensively.

And that's where they've always hung their hat and that's where they're gonna hang their hat. We're big, we're physical, you are not getting to the rim. Their weakness was always they gave up too many threes. Well, now they're giving up the fourth threes, the fourth few shots, they have no weaknesses on defense.

That's been the critical change. And I remember asking Mike Wootenholzer and you and I talked about this when we visited earlier in the year. When I asked him when I had him, I think in the preseason, I said, why are you making the tweet? Because it's simply because the Celtics and that huge disparities, like listen, the three points he has just gotten too good.

It feels like there's every team, there's multiple guys that can space you out. And honestly, Zach, you know, some of this is what you said, the things Brook Lopez can do defensively, the way he can man the pain, his communication skills, I'm almost liking him to a catcher who's calling out everything he sees in front of him. I always think of one of the most undervalued skills as a defender is how much talking are you doing? I'm a big believer in talking defensively, I'm a big believer in body language.

There's continuity there, they know who they are and how they win. And you know what, it's interesting reading Mike Wootenholzer and some of his teammates' comments. You know, Drew's been there a bit, Zach. And yet when you read the comments, they're still marveling at what this guy does.

You know, they play, they win against the Suns. They play Miami. I think Miami is the game. Yannas goes out in the first quarter.

You know, Miami is always gonna be belligerent and cranky. And I mean that the best possible way. But Lidgerin, I like that. They are belligerent.

In the best possible way, cranky and tough. And no matter who's on the floor, you know, they're gonna just keep coming at you. And it gets a little shaky and then Drew all of a sudden says, nope, nope, this isn't happening. We're winning this basketball game.

He's been absolutely fantastic. The Bucks are impressive. Do you think I'm out of line on the, on the Giannis MVP? And I, that's the other thing I wanted to ask you is, why do you think in the season Jason Tatum is having?

He's getting so little run as an MVP candidate. Because Giannis is averaging 31, 12 and five in the Bucks of at least temporarily passed Boston in the standings. And Yokich is doing what he's doing for the number one team in the West. So the sort of the early Tatum thing was, well, the best player on the best team is supposed to get the MVP.

That's how this works. It's less clear at least record wise that Boston is the best team. I think Boston is still the most complete team in the league. But record wise, it's neck and neck with both Denver and Milwaukee, where the current number one seats Milwaukee is currently the number one overall seed.

And then, you know, Embiid is unbelievable. And defensively, I think is when he dials it up is the, with Giannis right there is the biggest defensive force. Carries a heavy load on offense for a team that has switched up and started lineups around him, has had some injury issues and all that stuff. I just think the, and Luca, like the numbers are insane.

Yes, they are. The team around him just isn't that good? He could finish that. I mean, as it stands right now, I think he probably finished fourth.

And I had the chance to sit with him and do it at that little film sessions act. Yeah, I saw that. That was great. Yeah, I, you know, the subtleties, the little nuances, you know, the speed with which he reads progressions.

The only thing that happened, I would have hoped it could have been different. We were there obviously for the All Access. Joe Missoula happens by, he said, hey, I heard you're doing this. Show me your clips.

And I show them, and they were all driven by Tatum's improvement. You know, career high restricted area finishing, career high three is attempted, three throws attempted, blah, blah, blah, blah. You everybody knows the story where he's better. But Joe comes in and he's like, well, you know, he picked the clips with something in mind.

And Joe sees the first clip. He's like, well, this is a two for one. And here's the trigger. Blake's in that corner and grants over here.

I'm thinking, oh, damn it. I wish I had five more minutes to get the context of the coaches perspective. But what growth you've seen from Jason Tatum? And I don't mean that just between the lines.

There's just a confidence and an understanding of what's coming out and nightly. That's pretty special. Well, I do feel like we are on a clash. And Philly's going to have something to say about this.

A couple other teams, including a team near and dear to your heart that we're going to talk shortly, are going to have something to say about this. I just still think Milwaukee and Boston are the two best teams in the East. And then there's a drop off. And Philly hasn't upside.

Maybe not equal to those teams, but close enough that if they beat them four times in seven, I wouldn't be that surprised. But Philly's issue has always been how consistently can we hit our upside? And can we hit it when it really matters, when the chips are down? So I think Milwaukee Boston is still the safe bet for the Eastern Conference Finals.

Can I just add something on Philly? Absolutely. Should hear the dialogue I have in my own head about the Philadelphia 76ers. Oh, Doris, this has been six years for me.

I go to bed and I'm thinking about Tony Rotten and Markel Foltz. And wait, what did they give up for Jimmy Butler? And how is he not on the team? And then my wife is like, will you stop tossing in turn?

So we can go to sleep, stop thinking about the Sixers. Even she knows I'm thinking about the Sixers. Yeah, but they have these moments where they show you a level that you go, oh, yeah, they could beat those two teams in a seven game series. And I've heard you discuss this on your podcast, How Unstoppable, James and Joelle are because Joelle will just two points you to death in that little slot pre-throw elbow area.

I love that phrasing, Doris, because there just aren't that many guys anymore who could two point you to death and he is one. He'll two point you to death is jumpers, so silky. And it's funny because, you know, they have that moment where they started to ascend the standings in the East and the whole time I'm watching them. And I'm not catching every game, but I live here.

So that's my home broadcast. And I'm watching them ascend and I'm still thinking, why don't even think they've reached their peak. And so there's climbing and I'm going, there's more to get you. But can I watch Philly Boston?

And I'm nitpicking them a little bit. I am nitpicking here. But it's Philly Boston. They have command, game changes in the fourth, Al Horford starts raining threes.

But it's the little subtle moments. And I think it might have been Kyle, there's a couple guys you know that do just an incredible job covering them. Something between something like, and this is why they won't win or they don't sustain it hard enough or long enough. And there were two moments in the Boston game.

You know, transition opportunity to Joelle is running back in transition, but Robert Williams is three steps behind him. Dead sprint to the rim, Jalen puts the bounce pass. Beautiful pass. Dunk dunk.

And then James Harden was the lone guy back. I think it was bad floor bounce maybe after turnover. Whatever the situation was, James Harden. That was the thing rolled by Jalen.

I'm like, this is what I'm talking about. And I know I'm nitpicking those moments and every team goes through it. But this is where I have that dialogue and I have the gamut run harder. You know, well, transition defense was an issue for them at the beginning of the season.

Like a horrible one. They cleaned it up a little bit. It's still a little bit of an issue, but you're right. There's a minute, a combined minute, every high stakes Philly game in the regular season.

When you're like, well, this is why I can't quite trust these guys and some of this transition defense, some of it is like hard and embed switch and Harden just decides, oh, you have a guard on you. I don't get out of my way. I don't care. I'm going to be James Harden from 2018.

Now, sometimes it's okay to be James Harden from 2018 against the big guy because you'll hit your step back. Three. So get to the rim. I don't know.

But I do think Philly is in the inner circle of contenders. But Milwaukee Boston is the cream of the crop in the East. And you remember last year, Doris, last last season, Milwaukee has a chance to claim the number two seed and home court advantage against Boston. They punt the game.

They part the game. They sit everybody except true holiday, who I think had a bonus on the line, so they played him for eight seconds and he fell, they took him out. They lose. They flip to the three seed and all of a sudden they have game seven on the road in Boston.

They regretted that at the time. Once it became clear where games everyone's going to be that there was going to be one that, oh my god, they've regretted it since. I think this is going to be a real fight for the number one seed. Boston by the projection system is still a slight favorite to get it because they have an easier schedule and I think maybe one extra home game compared to the box they have one head to head game left.

But I think that's going to be interesting. But you know, you can sit here and tell me it doesn't matter if the box are fully healthy, if the Celtics are fully healthy, it doesn't matter where the games are. They didn't have middleton last year. I just, to your point about Drew and his toughness and Giannis, there's just a certain hunger with this group coming off last year that has stuck with me since they lost that series.

And now you look at their team. And they're whole. They have more lineups that they can get to with Giannis at center, not they have Crowder there and with Crowder, a second big wing defender with Drew to split up those assignments that went to West Matthews or Grayson Allen having our jail in Brown last year. I was just thinking that exact matchup is Jalen Brown.

Drew, I mean, Jay Crowder on Jalen Brown and making things difficult on him. I was scared of something you said earlier when we first jumped on about starting Conitz and over Grayson Allen. Your rationale for that is. I just think he's better.

Yeah. And he's not going to get targeted relentlessly on defense away. But Bud is going to opt for shooting above all else in that spot. And that's fine.

Like it doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter to me. But you know, they can play the Giannis Portis frontline with no Lopez has always been good for them. They can now go Crowder Portis if they want to at the four in the five.

They just have a lot of different ways they can play. You see them during games now. Remember how switch phobic they used to be? Yeah.

They'll be like, you know what, Brooks on the bench. Let's just like switch everything. We'll put Bobby Portis on guard. They just they feel to me and not just because they've won 16 games in a row.

They just feel to me like a team that is gearing up now for the postseason run. And man, Giannis, he's just he's just a bear to do it. Did you make a preseason title? By the way, do you do that or no?

I didn't. But here's what I'd like in that. So what are we doing in the West? I know we're not here to talk West and we're not going to talk West.

But to your point about gearing up and gaining momentum at the appropriate time. Who did that last year in the West? It's what we're still searching for outside of Denver who's been remarkably consistent. But of those teams that we projected to be cop outs, the Clippers, etc, etc.

You're waiting for somebody to catch their rhythm over there. Milwaukee has their rhythm and I can't wait to see it in person. It's different. I said this last night was last night was my first opportunities act to see Cleveland in person.

And you can watch a lot of tape. You can watch all the clips. You can see every score that Evan Mobley has when he has a great game by clicking one button. But the fact of the matter is there's something different about seeing it live.

And I am so excited to watch Philly in Milwaukee Saturday night. Can't wait. The number one team I think is going Dallas Lakers, which means Mark Jones and I will get a rare glimpse of the Saturday prime matchup, which is fabulous. So it's going to be fun.

It's going to be a great game. It's a good test for Philly. And you know, Boston has Phillies number two. I'm sure that's frustrating to them.

Just going back to sort of the like, do we really trust Philly? They have all the talent. I guess my concern with my other concern with Philly is, you know, they're starting to start in Milton now for defense, which is fine. That lineup has been really, really good for them.

And in Milton and Tucker, you have two guys who you can match up against. You know, if you face a team like Boston in their army, it seems like Boston, you have two elite wings or Milwaukee with whoever you want to put Tucker on, probably honest. You have the you have theoretical matchups for it. But you see a lot of times like Tucker's almost 38.

The burden he can handle is not quite as heavy. And there are a lot of nights because you have to hide James Harden on the worst offensive player or the weakest offense. We just have to regard this position where I just the thing that makes me most nervous about them other than all this other stuff or trust stuff we're talking about is just like every other game Tobias Harris is in a defensive match up where I'm like, Oh, God, I don't like Tobias Harris and like guarding jail and Brown or Jason Tatum or a quicker guard than him. I just something about the way they have to match up as a combination to Harden's let's say disinterest in playing real defense makes me nervous.

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You have to talk about what's happening in New York. Your New York Knicks Mike leans New York Knicks Spike Lee's New York Knicks are 37 and 27. They are and I had to check this 10 times to make sure my computer wasn't broken because we think of it. Tom Thibodeau team is a defense first team and this team is physical and tough and rugged.

They're fifth in offense. 119 points per game in this little street just about 118.8. Fifth in offense. I looked at him like is that how is that even and 13th in defense now since December 1st they are 27 and 15 fourth in offense seventh in defense third best net rating in the league.

They are one game behind the caps. They now currently have the tiebreaker over the caps. They have a much harder schedule than the caps. So they are a big underdog to catch them for the fourth seed.

But it looks like we are heading toward the Donovan Mitchell Bowl in the first round of the playoffs the team that got him in the team that didn't. Yeah. Delicious. What a delicious story line in the playoffs.

Tom telling you Doris. I'm in on the Knicks. I was high on the start of the season. I did not see this coming.

I thought like seventh and 44 wins. Like whatever the over-under was I was telling people about the over. I think they could be Cleveland in the playoffs. I'm not sure I would pick but I think that's an even matchup.

I think they could be Philly in a playoff series and I can't go to the Milwaukee Boston stress here quite yet with these guys. But I think something real is going on and this team is just you must be having a blast watching this. So you mentioned I think whatever date you mentioned I don't know if that was when Tom Thibodeau decided to shorten the rotation but the numbers look really good from that point. Their record against plus 500 teams over their last 10 games.

I wonder like so last year felt like such a rough year Julius was fighting with everybody. It didn't feel good. Right where I was I can't I think it was Fred Katz from the athletic recovers and so it's something like the vibes are immaculate which is terminology whatever in this day and age in the locker room. And like whenever you have a Knicks game one thing Tibbes talks about is when Jaylen Bronson showed up he went immediately to the practice facility and then sent other guys reported shortly thereafter.

And you think about what Jaylen brings as a basketball player. The number of times Jaylen will step in front of a massive body coming downhill to take a charge. How quickly does he move it Zach if he's starting to last night he goes off in the first half and I haven't had a chance to watch that. He's going off in the first half.

Double team comes and he moves it quickly. All of those little subtle things and the willingness to be coached because the tips is going to coach you. The willingness to be coached. I mean I don't want to give all of this massive credit but I feel like there was this narrative we've overpaid them and that's ridiculous given what we've seen and what a season for him and what a season for Julius.

And I said the Bucks know who they are and how they win. They get to the offensive window. They get to the free throw line. They play hard as hell.

You add Josh Hart who now helps quit and grinds deal with really difficult wings. Do I love everything that's going on? Of course I do. So, so Jaylen Bronson was never overpaid.

I don't want to get into the summer commentary. I called it when it happened. I said this is fine. It's a B.

It's a B deal. This is not some overpaid. This is a fine contract. It's turned into an A plus.

Am I favorite thing about Jaylen Bronson? It's not the charge taking. It's not the flopping and the flailing. He does it.

He flops. That's fine. It's not the ridiculous one on one scoring and he's quicker than you think. People are like, it's all footwork and trickery.

It's a lot of that. But his first step is quicker than you think. It's the sense he has for in an offensive is pretty no disrespect intended. It's pretty basic.

Like there's not a lot of complex movement and it's a lot of one on one stuff. They're iso. They're the second heaviest iso team in the lead. I think.

Yeah, behind Alice and they're about to catch Alice for the number one spot and he's a great iso player. He just has this sense for when someone needs a touch. Like Barrett hasn't gotten a ball in a while. You know what RJ comes screen for me because I think they're going to switch and if they switch, you'll have a good matchup or I think they're going to trap and if they trap, I'll hit you on the roll.

You know what Julius? I feel like I've taken a lot of shots. You come screen for me. They'll switch.

I'll dump it to you in the post. He just had that point guard sense for how to keep the ecosystem humming. Now you just nailed it on the Knicks. It's already starting.

We've talked about it on NBA today a bunch this week. As it becomes clear that they're going to be a playoff team. We're now going to revisit two years ago when they were a paper tiger and they got exposed in the playoffs and people are going to say, well, they're going to have to prove it. Remember last time they played the Hawks and it was like Julius Randall going one on everyone and it didn't work.

This is not that team. He has made not just a leap, a mega leap off the bench. Heart has a different dimension and Mitchell Robinson just came back from injury. His real straight double doubles.

He never misses because he just dunks, but that's not a bad thing. Like he's he has so much gravity going into the lane that their shooter is going to be open all the time defensively. He's reached a totally different level. This team is more dynamic, more diverse than the team that made it two years ago.

I will say though, you nailed their identity. I think the reason why them being fifth on offense is surprising and there will be questions about how sustainable it is is because it's everything but shot making that's driving the offense. They don't take a lot of threes. They don't take a lot of shots at the rim.

They are a bad shooting team almost across the board. 21st and 3 point accuracy, 27th in restricted area shooting, but they're ninth in free throws. They never turn the ball over and they're second in offensive rebounding. They all the marginal stuff, all the not sexy not shooting.

They're like the anti warriors on offense. And I don't see we go through this. We went through with Memphis last year who's a transition offensive rebounding team. Like, oh, is this sustainable?

Is this going to work in the playoffs? That was my thought. You're going over those things and I'm thinking to Memphis first list. They're winning the possession game.

And you know what the Grizzlies did find in the playoffs. They lost to the Warriors. The more I watch these teams and the different styles. I do think the playoffs are different than the regular season.

That's clear. Certain things become more important in the playoffs in the regular season. Certain parts of offense are harder to get to in the playoffs than in the regular season. All that's true.

But the more I watch these teams, the more I'm like, if you're good at what you do, you're just good at what you do. And you're going to be good at what you do in the playoffs. I think the Knicks are going to be a really dangerous playoff team. I couldn't agree more.

And you know, it's the variance in shooting from RJ Barrett. I remember when he came out and we were doing summer league games and I love Seth Greenberg on college basketball. And you know, I'll hit him up at some of the first information. He saw me cover in the next game and RJ was struggling to shoot it.

And he's just like, this is real. And he's got to figure it out. And there's such like, he just goes up and down. I just, you know, how much would he elevate that group if he could consistently knock down shots because of the, you know, what Julius and Jalen bring to the table.

But I love Mitchell Robinson. This guy, I feel like the upside is still there and it's funny. You know, the wrist injury is opposed to the injury that hurt him the last time. He talked about all he did was run and the time he was off.

He looked so well conditioned, Zach. And that was something he could not do. Now you can extend his stints, stretch out those minutes that he plays in succession. And yeah.

Well, I remember when he was younger, I write a column every preseason, my six most intriguing players for the season and years ago, he was in it. And I talked with him about, said, Hey Mitch, I watched a lot of filming. You played defense. Like a lot of times when you're in the pick and roll, you know, you got to guard two.

Your arms are down at your sides. Like if the coaches talk to you about that and he laughs, in my memory, at least I have to go back and look at it. But we definitely talked about it. And he and people around him were like, yeah, you don't realize like that's hard work to get your arms out there.

Every single possession takes effort. You watch him now. His arms are everywhere. He's in a stance.

He's got the proper angle. DB, they are plus 10 per 100 possessions with Mitchell Robinson on the floor and dead even when he's on the bench and resetting that center rotation. So it's him and Hart and Stein and Jerick Sims is a luxury is a big deal. Can I tell you my favorite next Saturday of the year right now?

Of course. It's new. It's fresh. It's fresh.

That's why I like it. It's fresh in 97 minutes, just 97 minutes with Brunson quickly and heart on the floor. And that's quick. That's becoming Tib's little pet perimeter threesome.

He likes those three together. You can tell they close games. So Brunson quickly, Hart 97 minutes. And nicks are plus 60 in 97 minutes with those.

That's not even real. That's not even possible. You could play 5 on 4 and not be plus 60 in 97 minutes. Wow.

They are killing it. And quickly, I haven't done the deep awards dive yet. I've heard the quickly six men of the year buzz like, oh, he's in the conversation. I think he is in the conversation.

He's been that good. And the shooting has gotten back up to where you expected to be. He's at 36% from three. The impact is having defensive.

Oh my God. You can't screen him. He's around every screen. He's got super long arms.

Long arms. You know, you can get skinny. He uses his top foot up. He's up and over.

He's fast. Yeah. I love how Josh Hart, like he's been there five seconds and the crowd loves this guy. And I love the facial expressions of this too.

It's like the technical foul of the opponent. I just, I don't know. There's a vibe about him that I love. There's a cute little exchange on Twitter with Jaylen and Josh Hart.

Like, I don't know. As Fred said, the vibes feel immaculate. Winning obviously solves a lot of things. Ten times they've held their opponent below 100 points.

Like, I feel like that's increasingly difficult to do in this day and age. Isn't it? Like keeping a team under 100 feels like an impossible task anymore. I think they're in the heart thing.

You knew he was going to take Deuce McBride's minutes, right? Like you knew and you wondered like they can't treat a first round pick just to replace Deuce McBride's minutes. And it was clear immediately. Oh, he's going to take some Grimes minutes and some Barrett minutes.

And that's going to put pressure on those guys to perform because if they don't, he's going to be there breathing down their neck. And that's been the case. And he's been outstanding. I feel like let's do five minutes on Boston if you can spare it.

I feel like I just haven't talked much about Boston because they're just top of the east all year long now they've slipped a second. They've had some injuries like Marcus Smart was out for a bit. Robert Williams has been in and out. Jalen Brown missed a few recent games.

Tatum comes out of the All-Star has three abysmal shooting games. And everyone panics we have to do the obligatory like what's wrong with Jason? It turns out nothing. Nothing's wrong with it.

It's the most boring possible answer is like nothing. He's going through his entrees probably just for 41 points tonight. 41 points. I asked him the day before the game.

I said, hey, listen, this is what you're shooting, 20 for 60 something. I said, you're all right. Physically, all right. He goes, you know, I've been through this before, right?

I said, yeah, like he couldn't have been. I mean, I know his temperaments is steady and even anyway, but he's like, yes, I'm fine. And as you said, he erupted last night. We're just fun to watch.

They're third in offense, fourth in defense. The only team in top five in both. First in net rating favorites to get the number one seed in the East and thus the number one overall seed. They're top seven smart ground Tatum, Horford, Robert Williams in the starting five in Derrick White and Malcolm Brock in off the bench.

It's the best top seven in the NBA. That's the best. That's the best top seven in the league. I think they're the most complete team in the league.

Williams is the Williams at center lineups are a totally different looked in the Horford at center lineups. It was interesting last night against Cleveland that Grant Williams didn't play. I was. I didn't know.

Then I see something post game that said he had played every single game last year. Obviously, you know, critical stages in the playoffs and played every game he was available for this year. I think 60 of 61. And I was like, whoa, what happened there?

And I heard Joe's comments post game. You think it's a non-story? You think it's a story. His minutes have been declining in the last two months.

There were even some trade rumblings about him that I frankly didn't believe because restricted free agency, which they're going to have on him is a very powerful cudgel. And while Cleveland may not be a great matchup for him, he spends a lot of time guarding him. And he spends a lot of time guarding Giannis when self-explained Milwaukee. So I just think even if he becomes the eighth guy and not quite a luxury, but something close to it, that's you win championships with guys who are maybe luxuries.

It's like Bobby Port is in play against the Nets in the playoffs when the Bucks won the title and then becomes a critical piece going forward. But I do think Boston's depth is kind of a Rorschach. Rorschach tests, you know, those little blotchy things that one person could look at and see like an old lady's face and another person could look at and see a goblette or something. Like they go 70.

We know their top seven is amazing. Last night they kind of stopped at seven. Like How was there in Muscala played 20 minutes combined? Will those guys be in the playoff rotation?

Sometimes maybe not always Grant Williams doesn't play and Blake Griffin doesn't play, Luke Cornette doesn't play, Peyton Prichard doesn't play. And you're like, is this team deep or not? And then they have a game where all their stars sit and like How is there has 31 and Blake Griffin does something like how deep they are deep? Like how deep they are.

But I think they are still the most complete team in the league. The playoff, the playoff, Derek White, has been, it's been so good. You know, he is one of those guys, you know, you can play him and he doesn't have to take a shot for five minutes and it's never going to diminish his effort. You know, Mike had beat off the bounce but he gets a backside block.

The flying in from 15 feet to get an offensive rebound. He's a possession creator, possession saver, dog it on the defensive end. Can explode offensively? We've seen that enough.

There's been a lot in the Boston media's act about how he, you know, two games ago, I think was plus 26, the highest plus minus 10 doesn't play in the fourth quarter or final five of fourth quarter in overtime. And you hear Joe talk all the time about humility. You know, I'm talking about the vibes of New York. You know, we've been to the Boston's practice facility several times.

Just like the air around the guys who don't play so Blake, you constantly, I'm always paying attention to the benches. Are people really happy if they're not playing? Like that's hard. And Blake always in the year of Peyton Pritchard or just the, you feel, you don't feel weighted down by the guys not playing.

That's significant. That has an effect on the feel and the vibe of the locker room. And so, you know, those will be interesting choices for Joe Missoula. And I find Joe absolutely fascinating in this way.

You know, he was talking to us pregame. I hope I'm not giving anything away if you yell at me if I do. But we're talking to a pregame yesterday and he said, you know, sometimes I do wonder about my own demeanor. Am I too, yeah, I'm always a step, I can't remember the word he used, but you know, does he need to change his cadence at all as a head coach?

And you marvel at how he's reacted at 34 and the circumstances faced. But what I always think is he's always thinking ahead, where can I be better? What do I need to do? Am I giving this group what they need?

So much made about the lack of timeouts of Joe. What type were helped to have the timeouts down the stretch of that game? Was that Philly game, right? He had one Philly doesn't they executed play.

Same play they had tied the game against Cleveland with earlier. That's time, you know, Jason goes and dunks on Jared Allen. I just think there's a lot to like about him as well. But the only reason the timeouts thing became a thing is that it's something anyone can see.

Like to actually analyze the X's and O's and the rotations and the lineups, you have to really pay close attention to the game and understand what's going on. Anybody can see like, oh, he didn't call time out there. He doesn't call time out. It was just like the lowest hanging fruit possible.

It's a dumb thing. It's a dumb thing. On white and Brogdon. I mean, there's an alternate universe where they're like a good, they're like the starting back court of a 38 win pacer's team or something like that.

And they're coming off the bench for the Celtics, both of them. And Brogdon, Brogdon plays a different style that you have Brown and Tatum who are the scoring stars of the team. They're the fulcrums of the offense. They get to hold the ball.

They get to do all the star stuff. Everyone else is kind of a quick mover, cutter, screener, doesn't hold the ball, doesn't over dribble, except Brogdon. Brogdon kind of stands out as the only deliberate non-star on the Celtics. He has the highest pick and roll volume on the team per per possession, higher than Tatum, higher than Brown.

He has the third highest usage rate on the team by far behind those two guys. And I know that that that's been, he's not for everybody stylistically for that reason. I love that he sticks out stylistically from the other Celtics role players. I love that they have another guy who's like, I can get some buckets.

Even if they're like, burrow inside with my shoulder and lay the ball up, you can take a long two on the pick and roll like, I can get mine. I'm cool, get mine. I don't care if Jason Tatum's on the floor. I can get mine too.

I think they need that change of pace among their like other guys that are not Tatum and Brown. There's a self possession about Malcolm. He's very comfortable in whatever role you want to put him in. Thanks to that high level.

It's funny yesterday there was a stretch where I was like, oh, he hasn't really taken a shot here. But then there will be moments where it's just like a timely bucket, timely decision, timely kick. You're right, he can get in the paint and he's not doing it with speed or athleticism by any stretch of the imagination. Now he gets these layups where he just catches the ball, drives into your chest and gets you to open up your stance like two inches and then his shoulders just in your chin and the balls in the basket.

He's getting any necessary separation because of his strength. I've always been an admirer. It's funny. I remember talking about him at Virginia when I was still covering college basketball.

I was like, I think he's an NBA player. I think I've never gotten killed about it because not fast enough, what skill does he have that's great and he was injured for time. I don't know what it was. I was just like, I think he's a, I'm probably because Tony Bennett said this guy's an NBA player.

He could play on any roster. He's going to help your team win. He's going to do everything right defensively. Yeah.

Malcolm is, and you're right. I hadn't, I hadn't thought of it in that context. He is totally different from the rest of that group. I'm not going to ask you to make a pick unless you want to because I don't like to put people on the spot, but I will put myself on the spot.

It is March, it's March 2nd where, I don't know how it became March. It's March 2nd. Amen. There's a little bit of March.

The sun is starting to shock. I know. I know. I know we finally got some snow.

I was, I was a kid for a little snow, but anyway, it's March 2nd. I picked the Bucks to win the championship before the season. There's a big part of me that's like, well, that's your pick. If you want to switch your picks, if things go hit, like if you pick the nets to win the championship, I don't think you got to stick with that one.

I think you can pick another team. But if you ask me right now, fresh start from scratch, pretend I never made a pick. Who's winning the Eastern Conference? Because I pick them to begin with and because they're playing out, I'm still going Bucks over Celtics.

I don't feel great about it. I think Boston's the best top to bottom team in the NBA, but I've just been, it's been in my gut since last May. I think Janus is out for blood this year. And I'm just not picking against them until they lose.

If you're forcing me to make a move. I'm not. I'm not. Yeah.

I mean, I don't mind picking. I'm not going to be in the NBA of recency bias, but I'm just going to go to, it was interesting when we get Andrew set down with the four young stars and ask them who they thought the best player was. And they said, Janus, and I would just say Janus and the hunger, he's not satisfied with one by any stretch of the imagination. As long as he stays healthy.

And even when he isn't healthy, I mean, you think the way his knee bent in the championship season, I didn't think he had a chance of playing again. And he was talking about this, you know, the other day, do you think you're under appreciated for playing through injury? He said probably, but I don't mind that. He's trying to hide some elbow thing, his hand, his wrist, whatever it is.

He sees remarkable Zach. It's a pleasure to be able to cover somebody who thirsts for greatness the way he does. And it's so, you know, I'm not a gambler by any stretch and I don't like having to pick. But if you're, you know, if I had to say what I thought would win it, I'm guilty of saying I'm getting on the honest train.

Well, you know, I will admit, I'm free season pick for the Western Conference Champion was the Clippers and that ain't looking so good right now. So I can pat myself on the back for being high on the box. Anybody could have been high on the box. Clippers are not looking great, but I'm sticking with the box.

That's, that's, that's, and I just were either going to get Buck Celtics and it's going to be epic or something crazy, unexpected and hopefully fun is going to happen on the way there. You and I will be chronicling all of it. I cannot wait to get a glass of wine after a game in one of these Eastern Conference playoff cities along the way. Doris Burke, you're a Hall of Famer.

I don't know what the hell you're doing on this podcast, but you're a Hall of Famer. Every time I get to talk to you, it's a pleasure. Thank you for joining us on the little post. Thanks for having me, Zach.

All right, let's jump to the Western Conference where maybe the most significant on court event or at least on court debut of the year happened last night in Charlotte. Kevin Durant debuted for the Phoenix Suns in a, I don't know what the final score was, I think 105, 91, victory of some kind that was not that interesting for Phoenix. They traded four first round picks, one swap. The only swap they could trade.

It was Cam Johnson, J Crowder, four. Kevin Durant, Eddie Johnson, 19,202 career points in the NBA, host of co-host with Justin Terminia, maybe a today for Series XM, color analyst for the Phoenix Suns local broadcast with the great K-Ray and sometimes AMIers throwing in there. Eddie Johnson, what's it say you? How'd you think of, what'd you think of the first game together?

Was it Katie didn't play as many minutes we're going to see him play, but we saw the new starting five with Joshua Kogi as the fifth guy out there. It was going to be Tori Craig, then with Joshua Kogi, either or fine with me. We saw some CP Booker Durant eight in minutes, a decent amount of the big four. What'd you think?

I wasn't shocked. I don't think you were either. I mean, we've seen enough of Kevin Durant and how he plays basketball to know that he fits into anything. Right.

And seamlessly because he's an unselfish basketball player. He's a guy that can play off the ball. If you give him minutes, he will score. Like, score has always had that mentality.

Like, for me as a player, I'll tell the coach, I don't care what you're running. All I want is minutes. I'll get my numbers. And that's why Katie has looked at as an old soul in regards to basketball.

He knows how to play at the old school way and he knows how to devastate you the new school way. And so I had no hesitation, no thoughts of anything going south because the guy is always in shape. He returns from injury better than most players we've seen. And I just knew when the sun's offense that he would be fun.

Take me back to the trade deadline itself because the suns have obviously had an up and down season, but they had started to catch a little bit of a rhythm before the deadline with Booker coming back and Chris kind of playing a little better. There were rumblings that maybe they were going to go a different way and say, hey, can we maybe bring another good player in here to add to our core? Keep Bridges, Keith Cam Johnson, the name that came up was John Collins. And that's a path you would have taken if you thought that seems good enough to win a championship with Chris Paul at age 37.

When you heard those rumblings and you heard the KD rumblings, are you surprised at all that KD version of this all in for one guy, one out? Did you think that that other version of the team had enough upside to be worth looking at? Or was this just a no brainer? It's Kevin Durant.

Go get Kevin Durant. No, it's a no brainer. You go get Kevin Durant. And the reason you go get him is not because he's an all time great.

He's an all time great that if you trade him in the middle of the year, especially he will fit into your offense scenes that he won't disrupt that. He just knows how to play basketball and he's a champion. And so that's why you would do it. And the sun's had no hesitation in doing it.

They had some hurt. They got to have some heavy hearts. We gave up. We gave up.