Dr. Baker Evil Crescent Hotel

In the dead of night, as people sleep, that is when the spirits creep. As the bell tolls three dark things take power, we like to call it the Supernatural Hour. Hey, welcome to the Supernatural Hour. This is your host Raven and tonight we're really looking forward to this actually.

We sat down in Castle Setum, so excited to do this episode. Oh, me, me, me, me, me. Go, run with it. So I am actually super excited to do this episode.

It is, so we're going to talk a little bit about the Crescent Hotel and Dr. Baker. And it takes place in Arkansas. And it just so happens that last summer, well, not last summer, the best summer, I was in Arkansas at a different city.

And so I actually kind of have some insight into this. Well, some of what we're going to talk about. And I lived in Arkansas for a while. And I was also treated for cancer.

So this, all those things tie together and make this episode extra exciting because I've got some extra insight. And yay, happy, happy. And not only, I'll tell you how excited he was. Okay, yesterday I sent out a little thing and said, Hey, don't forget we're podcasting tomorrow.

Read through the agenda. Make sure you're comfortable with everything. And then I was like, I don't know, three, about seven, because that's when we're going to podcast a seven p.m. He's like, where's everybody?

Then he immediately said it. Oh, it's tomorrow. So he was so excited. He wanted to record this yesterday.

Yes, I was like super excited. I was like there. Like where's everybody? And then if you wrote that in my face as I realized that wasn't yesterday, it was today.

Little sad castle. All right. So I'm going to help crying, but let's introduce the whole group. Hey, I'm Chad.

This is Drake. This is Castle and I'm excited because we're all here today. We're going to talk about Arkansas. Yay.

Before we jump into Arkansas, we actually have three investigations to talk to you about. And that we've had. There's just a lot of cool evidence we got from those. So look forward to that a little bit later.

In the meantime, we are sponsored by Castle PhotoArt. Yes, Castle PhotoArt. A spring is around the corner, which means senior pictures. It means weddings.

Now is the time to put your photos. So book now Castle PhotoArt.com. Reach out to me and let's get you on the schedule. I'll make you look beautiful, even if you're not.

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That would be a good one. You can get it printed on t-shirts and bumper stickers and stuff. Put it on your cards. I'll make you beautiful, even if you're not.

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You guys are amazing. And in fact, you're so amazing. We're just going to name you all individually tonight. Chad, you want to give everybody a little shout out?

So our patrons were shouting out. Athena, Bones, Jason, MB, V-L-E-H, Laney, Foster, Halesorm, and Paradox. And we are really grateful for your support and your ongoing support as patrons and your friendship. We really do appreciate that.

Yes, we do. And if you listened to our last podcast about Valentino's Herst Ring, and you heard me say that if you were a Patreon, you got weekly swag bags. I aired. I was listening to that.

I was like, I know. Wow. I know. I want you to Patreon.

We would love to give you stuff weekly. You guys deserve it. You're awesome. I was listening to the podcast.

And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. We don't make that much money from our patrons. I'm going to have 100,000 Patreon sign-ups. Oh, if I had to send out something every week, everybody would quit because I have a hard time getting stuff out every quarter.

Or for fosters, they're like, more to our winter thing, because they live really close. I keep meaning to drive it down there. I will drive it to you tomorrow, Foster. She'll have this by the time you hear this.

All right. So if you become a Patreon, you will get quarterly swag bags, plus just a whole bunch of other stuff. So hop on over to our website, check out our Patreon page, and see all the cool stuff you're missing out on. Also, we just today put up our new investigation.

It's a new venue we've never been to. Well, we've been to it for various other things because it's used for a lot of things. We've never investigated there ever, ever. And it's a reception place.

It's called the Shalom. It's old. It's historic. It's huge.

It's beautiful. They use it as a reception center besides weddings, besides a myriad of other things. We've had grandkids have recitals there. What's beautiful?

So go to our web page. And tickets are there. They're available. We do have quite a few tickets, but we've been selling out like crazy.

I can't remember the last event that we've had that we didn't sell out. So don't wait on this, because if you do, you'll have to wait until our next event, which will probably be end of April. Before I get into the next one, this is the Shalom is March 21st, 830. Our next event that we're going to do end of April, maybe first part of May depends on their availability, is the one that we were doing the contest with.

It's new new. We haven't announced this to anybody yet. And we're having a contest. So if the first person to guess the right place will get a 40-ounce supernatural hour thermos, or not thermos, what's the word I want?

Humbler. Mugg. Humbler. Humbler is the word of the day.

It was 1970, it would be a thermos. Right. So keep those guesses coming in. We've got quite a few.

And I'll just tell you right now, the right one has not popped up yet. So keep guessing. And if I don't see the right one pop up here in a few more days, I will start throwing out a hint or two. And hopefully someone will win that contest.

If no one does, by the time we book it, then we'll take everyone that gave a suggestion and just draw one out. But hopefully someone will actually guess it because that will be more fun. We're excited. Really excited for this one.

No, it's going to be so cool. All right. So let's just jump into our main topic. Because I can see Castle over there just dancing in his chair.

He's excited to talk about the Arkansas. So like he said, we're talking about the Crescent Hotel. Now this is in Eureka Springs, Arkansas. It opened in 1886.

And at this time, the United States, everybody in the United States was just in this health care craze. They were looking for everything. And if they would have had social media, it just would have been a buzz. They would have marketed everything.

And just your social media pages would have been full of health care. So if the Crescent Hotel had a social media, they would have had it all. They would have had YouTube. They would have had X.

They would have had Instagram and TikTok and everything. And they would have marketed themselves as a destination for the sick. And this is a time when tuberculosis, which they called consumption, was kind of a big thing, where they'd send people away to secure from it. They marketed for people's cancer, chronic pain, and other incurable at the time conditions, such as cholera, syphilis, yellow fever, diabetes, just these sorts of things.

And so just from the very beginning of the Crescent Hotel, it was thought to be a place of hope. You get desperate people, and they just really you don't want to go there, Castle. Just to give a little bit of history here about Eureka Springs. So I lived in Arkansas for a time.

And I actually went to travel there this summer. I actually went to Hot Springs, Arkansas, which is about a four mile drive, not four mile, a four hour drive, south of Eureka Springs. So the area of southwest Missouri and northwest Arkansas has just got literally hundreds, if not thousands, of caves. And with that, there are literally hundreds and thousands upon thousands of springs.

So Hot Springs, Arkansas, there's actually a national park there. And I promise I'm going somewhere with this. So be patient with me. And like Eureka Springs, the only difference between Hot Springs and Eureka Springs is Eureka Springs is cold.

Hot Springs is hot water. But this water in Arkansas in this area has got a lot of minerals in it, a lot of magnesium, a lot of the water is actually really healthy for you. And back in the day, both in Hot Springs and Eureka Springs, they thought that if you bathed in these waters, that you would be, that would help your health, basically. In fact, if you go to Hot Springs, Arkansas, today, they still have these bathhouses that are being operated by private contracts to the government, where it's just like it was back in Dr.

Baker's time. You go in, they basically sweat it out of you, you sit in hot baths, they have you rub mercury on your junk to get rid of syphilis, healthy practices like that, but back in there they were thought to be curative. So yes, if you're listening to this, and you have the syphilis, do not rub mercury. That's bad idea.

Don't do that. We've learned since then. But apparently, if you spread mercury on your junk and you sit in Arkansas, spring water, you will be cured. And that's where this Christmas hotel and this Dr.

Baker tie into this because there's this big health creature inside of this water. And it's kind of like, I'm going to send a hate mail to castle at wisp.org. It's kind of the modern version of CBD. It allegedly cures everything.

You know, you got the syphilis, you put CBD on it. You got the pain, CBD, hair loss, CBD. It's kind of the same thing. It was the snake oil of the 1800s.

So that's just a little bit of background around the curative thought and Arkansas and these springs. So, okay. Well, so you've got these patients that are just desperate and looking for anything to get better. And so the call of this hotel and what it promised was huge for them.

Now, Dr. Baker didn't get there until the 1930s. So the hotel had already seen illness. It's already seen death.

It's already seen. Maybe some people got healed. So maybe people got better. Who knows?

But it also saw a lot of disappointment because not everybody got better. Because as we just talked about, Mercury on your junk is not going to get rid of the syphilis. So it actually failed as a resort, because they tried doing it as a resort later. They tried making it into a college.

The college didn't take off. So the Crescent Hotel just kind of sat isolated. And where it sits is on this hill, it overlooks the town. Kind of far away, which is key in the story.

But it just sat there, emptying isolated. And so let's go back to the isolation part. If you're isolated, you're not going to have a lot of witnesses hanging around. There's not going to be pastors by that are just on here.

What's going on over here? If you have fewer witnesses, you don't have a lot of questions. If you don't have a lot of people hanging around, you're not going to have a lot of regulations because no one's really paying attention to you. We've discussed this a lot as well as other paranormal researchers that locations that are surrounded with a lot of long-term emotional vulnerability tend to hold energy different.

And the Crescent had decades of this before Dr. Baker even got there. So he's already working with an area that has a lot of history and not necessarily the best energy. And then, Passel said that there's a lot of springs, a lot of water.

I think most people that have been involved in the paranormal at all realize that water can carry certain energies. So this is just a hotspot for stuff. It's kind of a side note with the water. Currently, there's over 61 springs just in and around hotsprings, or a re-carcant saw.

So there's a lot of water underneath the city. In fact, that whole region is just rife with springs. All right, so let's talk about Dr. Baker.

Norman Baker, before you even thought about calling himself a doctor, even if he actually was a doctor, owned a radio station called KTNT in Iowa, where he just went after doctors, accused medical community of hiding cures, and essentially made himself the only honest voice people to trust. That's kind of like the fake news of today. Yeah, there's a certain somebody I can think of, but I don't think we want to mention that name. Nope, but we'll just call him the fake news of the 1920s.

He would repeat these messages pretty much all the time and build a loyal audience that believed him word for word didn't even mean anything else. He never mentioned cancer treatments, but when he opened his hospital in quotations, at the Crescent Hotel, patients weren't skeptics. They arrived convinced that he was the one that could help them. His radio career taught him that fear, fear-mongering is the best and only way to pretty much do anything, and he was the only one that could save him.

He bought the crescent in 1937, but it wasn't just for business. It was his way of making his own closed world before he had all the power. He wasn't motivated by healing and making anyone feel better. His motivation was ego, control, and like everything else, money.

He created authority big time and despised being questioned. Honestly, he sounds a little bit like a psychopath. What's the actual clinical narcissist? Those two you want for you and you for all your ills?

All right, Baker called the cancer cure. So you got to imagine we're in this climate. We're in this big hotel. That's a way for everybody.

Dr. Baker said himself up on the radio was like this, hey, the medical community is screwing you guys. Big pharma of the day, which is probably not really that big, is trying to keep you all sick. This stuff kind of rings with modern day stuff we hear about.

But anyway, he's on the radio saying, all these things are crap. I have the cures. I know the secrets come to my secret hotel in the forest, and let's cure this. And so like Drake said, people are like, whoa, you know, I have cancer, it can't be cured, or I have syphilis or whatever.

So they're flocking to a doctor Baker's hotel. But why he called the cancer cure is really like just a system of controlled suffering. He's basically just experimenting on these people. Some of the cures, and I'm using my irritations and nobody can see some of the cures, are he would make these harsh injections out of chemicals that would cause intense burning beneath the skin.

These injections would lead to like open sores and tissue damage. And then he would make these thick, caustic paste that were designed to burn. And the idea was that you spread it on a tumor and it burns the tumor off. And so you could apply this paste directly to tumors, and it would sometimes eat the flesh, just putting acid on your self on purpose, like get rid of the tumor.

And it just let these patients in constant pain. And not only would he like put the caustic paste on these tumors, it's not like a one and done. It's a, see me three times a day and let's put this caustic burning paste on your arm to cure your arm cancer. And so it's like the repeated, it's this repeated suffering that these people are dealing with.

The other thing that he did that's kind of screwy is he refused to give his patients anesthesia. Part of his theory was is that if you numb the pain, your body doesn't respond to the cure. And so the pain was part of the cure, kind of the 1930s version of no pain, no gain. And so these people are actually feeling this burning in their system, they're feeling the burning on their skin.

But on top of that, he's cruel to be wasn't just physical, it's also psychological. He told his patients that if they weren't in pain, the treatments were working. And so they believed this agony that they're suffering was actually hope. So they'd be like, oh, it hurts, it must be working.

Which is a messed up thing if you think about it. If someone questioned the process, or they cried out, they reminded that that was dangerous and that faith in the cures essential. So not only was he like, hey, this is gonna cure you, but if you whine and complain about it, it's not gonna work, you have to buy into it. So they're like, oh yes, I'm in cures, or are the smoking from the chemicals burning out of the flesh.

It was just like any of it. I feel better. I feel more horrible. I'm feeling better.

So sad. It is. So patients were discouraged or outright forbidden from contacting family members. And outside doctors were built up as enemies by Dr.

Baker. And he's like, yeah, those guys are gonna tell you that this is quackery, but can you feel the cure? You can feel that cure. It really hit you hard.

So he kept something as narrative that the outside doctors wanted them to die for profit. So he basically really tightly controlled information that's coming and going from these hotels. So these patients only knew what Baker was telling them. He basically controlled all the information in and out.

And so he would tell them, hey, this is working. Oh, no, people on the outside want you to suffer and die. So they can be rich. The medical community on the outside wants to get rich off your suffering.

Not that I want to get into my suffering. It sounds to me like the people on the inside wanted to get rich off their suffering and wanted to promote their suffering, right? So a little bit. But even with that, between these injections, which were, who knows what was in these injections, but it burned, but most of these patients were too weak to even leave if they wanted to.

By the time that some realized that something wrong, they're isolated, they're exhausted and terrified of stopping the treatment because maybe one more cure is the one that's gonna do it. A death income suddenly, it came slowly, it came through infection, organ failure, or sure physical collapse. And again, that's the sucky thing in all these patients, we're just drinking the proverbial Kool-Aid or maybe the literal Kool-Aid in this case, the injection, the next topical application of birdie stuff is the one that's gonna be the cure. Every day they're thinking, I'm improving, I'm improving when it was exactly the opposite that's happening.

And for those of listeners who don't know, and I don't know how long, I don't know what the listener base has, it's been a while, but I actually have stage four incurable cancer. On the right side, my last three tests have come back as undetectable, so it is in check, it's not all of undetectable, but I understand the fear of having a incurable disease. I understand looking for alternate cures, things of that nature, but this guy was really truly taking advantage of people. And whether he's a true believer in his methods, or if he was just using an experiment, it's messed up.

And everyone's gonna deal with it differently. Everyone deals with trauma, regardless what it is, differently. I happen to know that Castle deals with humor and his philosophy and putting words in your eye, I hope I'm speaking before you can correct me if I'm wrong. How dare you?

But you deal with things with humor and you keep, and yes, you get that cancer diagnosis, you get that syphilis diagnosis, you get that tuberculosis, yes, it's frightening, it's scary, but I've heard so many cross the board people say you're gonna be positive about it, but these four people, and being positive doesn't mean you're going to overcome it. But these four people, I think it would be so hard for them to have been positive with all the pain and the suffering and agony they were going through. I feel better. All right, so from a paranormal perspective, this kind of death matters.

So these weren't like quicker accidental passings. These people were suffering, they're in pain, they're being essentially tortured, all while being told that they're being cured and having this false hope, the next injection is the one that's gonna be the cure. So they're drawn out to us, they're confusing, and they're just like I said, they're filled with this false hope. So many patients died believing that they're healing, never understanding that they'd actually been deceived.

So with paranormal research, we find that when you investigate a place that has a lot of suffering, a lot of death, betrayal, unresolved things where people are waiting for cures, these often lead to intelligent hauntings. These spirits are generally, they're very aware, they're emotionally charged, sometimes they die and they're confused, even the spirits are like, what happened, I should rub some stuff in my arm and now I'm floating around, what's happening? So this really can charge a location with a lot of suffering and spiritual energy related to that suffering. So it's the kind of place where if you go, it's gonna feel heavy, and it's because these spirits just suffered up until the point they died, but they're waiting for like a salvation that never came.

Wow, that's interesting. So you made a statement here that said, many patients died believing that they were healing and never understanding that they were being deceived. Well, according to Baker, his public claims was that no one ever died at this hospital. Even though deaths are inevitable and frequent, the crescent basement was converted into a mord where bodies were stored, sometimes for days.

Locals later reported the bodies were removed at night, curtains were drawn when the lights were dim, there were no funerals, no public acknowledgments of the deaths, yeah, according to Dr. Baker, no one ever died at the hotel. Everybody leaves our hospital's cured. One way or the other?

That's a cure. So when federal investigators raided the hospital, they discovered human remains, medical waste, chemical evidence that directly contradicted Baker's claims. Yeah, Baker was convicted only of mail fraud, not murder, because billing patients through the postal system was easier to convict than it was to prove medical homicide. So how's that here?

Wow. This is a little like the Al Capone where they were able to get them on text evasion and not murder. Sometimes you go for the thing that you can get people for to get them out of the way. On a side note with that, and I was an SVU detective for five years of my law enforcement career and actually had a doctor who was inappropriately touching patients.

And I think I charged him with like 40 counts of like sexual battery, but in the end, I think they charged him with like two counts of lewdness because they were worried he's going to argue that it was legitimate medical procedures. So I've actually experienced this first 10 as well too. So yeah, it sucks that they couldn't charge us to get murder, but yeah, mail fraud, that's a very interesting direction to go with this. Yeah, the interesting part is that they did get him out.

They got him, stopped him from doing these things. That legal loophole fuels enormous anger among the investigators and believers alike. And that may and many feel that anger still lingers in billing and that there's still residual energy from all of those things that were going on. All right, so let's talk a little bit about what actually went on there, because it was ghost hunters.

Despite what happened and the tragedy that went on, which is terrible, especially what, I'll tragedy is terrible, but you just listen to what these poor people suffered and my heart just goes out to them. But as investigators, after the fact, we like to know what happened. So let's talk about that. One of the most frequent entities that's reported by people that see things is a tall male figure.

And a lot of people think that this is actually not your baker. He is described by staff, guests, anybody that's there as just like silently standing at the foots of beds, watching, creating a sense of unease. And when people encounter this figure, they say that not only seeing him, which is kind of creepy enough, but it's also they get a feeling of being evaluated, judged, kind of controlled, which sounds like this would fit Dr. Baker's real life personality where he just wanted total control of all the situation.

So there's certain rooms there, and they say particularly room 218 are associated with sudden emotional shifts. People have reported feeling intense anxiety, anger, they get just a really strong urge to leave. Even when there's nothing visibly happening. They're not seeing anything, they're not feeling cold.

They're just, they call it an oppressive room, and just these just feel some more than seeing things. They do say that there are spirits of former patients, and they're gonna present differently than Dr. Baker. Dr.

Baker's gonna be about control, fear, anxiety, control. But the patient's spirits, they're usually seen wearing hospital gowns, or sometimes just clothing from the 1920s, 1930s. So if you were to go there today, you'd think, why is that? Or some wearing these outdated clothes.

You think about everything they went through. They appear confused, weak, stressed, distraught, which would make sense with what they've gone through. And people who have seen these patient's spirits describe them lingering in hallways. Sometimes they've been seen sitting on beds.

Sometimes they vanish, mid-movement. They're there one minute, they're gone the next. And the vibes that they send off, of course, are gonna be more sad. They seem lost.

It's kind of like they're hanging around still waiting for treatment, waiting for instructions, waiting for that next injection that's gonna finally cure them. As with all investigations, I think it's rare to find some sort of audible sound, whether it's a voice or a scratch or a knock. And guests and investigators report hearing persistent coughing. They're hearing moaning, labored breathing, especially late at night.

And the sounds often occur in areas that were actually used during Baker's Hospital era. They built on and added some new things. So if you go to the original areas, that's where you're gonna hear this. Also, they report smell.

That's something that's often, it's activity that's often reported. They smell ada-septic chemicals, medicinal compounds. Sometimes, who does the whiff? Where you go, oh, did I smell that?

Sometimes it hangs around and they can't figure out where or why. It's not like there's, oh, there's a bottle of chemical city. There's no reason that these smells should be in the room. They're most commonly smelled in hallways and the basement, which used to be the work.

And one of the things, as I was researching this, that I found was how the activity responds. So if you're doing an EVP session, if you mention the investigators there, if they happen to mention Baker's name, almost always, it will trigger a sudden spike in activity. And voices that they catch on recordings are sometimes described as angry, mocking, maybe a little defensive, equipment malfunctions, which is quite common. Batteries drain and the atmosphere will shift.

And I know we have all Drake, Chad, Castle, we have all been in a room where we have just felt the energy shift, even most recently a between each, but went from just kind of normal to heavy almost instantly. And this suggests an intelligent presence rather than residual. Something has come into the room to make that shift. So what these hauntings, when patients died, they didn't die like knowing the truth.

They didn't die like, oh, I've been defrauded, I'm dying. They're being told, hey, you're almost cured, you're almost cured and then they died. The families themselves are also not really given big explanations like, hey, where's grandma at? Oh, she went for a hike, we haven't seen her.

So the families kind of, they questioners put off. But the most important thing with all of this is that Dr. Banker never admitted any wrongdoing or accepted any accountability for his like little shop of horrors, if you will. That just screams narcissism.

Right, wrong, there's nothing wrong with methods for sound, but that male fraud shut me down. So, paranormal researchers who have investigated there have described that haunting is anchored in consciousness. So it's not like a loop that just plays over and over again. These are spirits who died helping for a cure and not receiving one.

And so they've said it, the hauntings are tied to location and revolve around unresolved justice. So these aren't souls that are unaware that they're dead. They're just, and they're not like just repeating like a loop, like a, what's the original haunt? Thank you, there we go, residual haunt.

Theater souls are like seeking answers, they're seeking purpose. They never received an acknowledgement, they never received any kind of apology or justice. So investigators have frequently reported strong physical reactions when entering certain areas of the hotel, especially the basement. They reported nausea, dizziness, intense pressure in the chest, which is interesting because I've investigated for well over a decade, I know you have as well, Raven and Chad.

And we've all either experienced this or been a people who have experienced this. I've never been hit with nausea, but the pressure I felt, the dizziness, I've seen a lot of people experience that I've experienced at a time or two. But even seasoned researchers feel these sensations. And the crazy things that sometimes they're quick and they fade just as quickly as they came.

And so I don't know, this kind of almost suggests like an environmental figure and not just like anxiety. So I was like, oh, I'm anxious. Oh, it's just like you go down there and you get overcome with an emotion or a sensation that's just gone, which anxiety doesn't do. Yeah, personally, my kind of go-to thing of choice not that I choose it, but it usually has something to do with my head, like a headache or like my eyes will hurt.

I don't often get the stomach aches, but everyone's gonna be a little different. Yeah, and for me when I experience like a haunting, especially if it's like a really dark haunting, kind of come up with a way describing it. And to me, it feels kind of like sitting in front of a space heater and like you get like hot on one side of your body except for it's not heat. It's like a pressure or a feeling of, it's just a feeling, but it's just hitting one side of your body and almost like it's radiating from like a heat source or just a spiritual source or whatever.

Great Chad, what kind of physical anomalies have you felt on investigations? I feel something weighing you down, like something's keeping you tied to a spot, like you can't move. For me, it's an anxious feeling, an anxious feeling that I don't really have a reason for. And it's interesting because I think we all experience things a little bit differently.

But I've been with people who feel the nausea. I've walked through an area where I believe the spirit is standing and I get a little bit of a kind of dizziness, kind of tingle for a second as I walk through the area. So I think everybody experiences these things just a little bit differently. But some of these investigators, they describe feelings of overwhelming sadness, anger, dread that aren't really connected to their own experiences.

So they'll go to the basement. Yeah, yeah, I bought a new card and I'm so happy. Why am I suddenly sad? Oh, it's gone.

So these are like, they're feeling other emotions, almost like an empath. They can kind of sense emotions of the people who are tortured and died in this hotel. And the best of the year is to say that these feelings often feel intrusive, directed, so they're not random, but not necessarily even directed at the investigators, but just like these spirits they feel are angry, they're sad, they're anxious. The emotional bleed through is been interpreted as intelligent energy trying to communicate with the investigators.

That's leading theory and it's a sound theory, in my opinion. One thing that Raven mentioned is there's been a lot of equipment failures and that kind of reinforces this idea. Cameras have been reported to shut off batteries draining like Raven mentioned, audio devices malfunctioning. And mostly this happens in the basement, which is where I suspect that morgue was.

An interesting thing that stands out among investigators who investigated this is the timing. These equipment failures often occur during direct questioning and specifically when that questioning is related to Dr. Baker. When his name is mentioned, that's when battery strain, that's when audio devices fail, that's when the emotional waves hit.

So taking together these don't really feel chaotic. It seems like an almost intelligent, responsive reaction by these spirits. Many investigators say the energy shifts happen when the history of the place is spoken out loud and it especially happens when the suffering is validated. Hey, works are you suffered?

Boom, they're getting these emotional spikes, they're getting these equipment hits, they're getting validation for their investigative techniques. The question hotel doesn't just hold ghosts, it holds the memory of everyone who's been there, everybody who's died there, even from before Dr. Baker. It's often said investigators have been there, they leave shaken, but not because they recognize them and I suspect that has more of an empathic component to it.

I think there's so much pain and so much suffering that even the most hardened investigator is having some level of empathy with all the suffering that happened there. Absolutely, we've talked about a lot of places and there's a lot of bad and sad and terrible things that have happened, but you know, what's going on here? Yeah, I just can't even imagine, it sounds awful and so many people and I wasn't a doctor trying to do stuff and it wasn't working because the technology wasn't there. He was purposely doing this, knowing that it wasn't doing Jack's squat.

So like we alluded to a minute ago, the Crescent Hotel today is still fully operational, it's a history, it's a word, it's a historic hotel, it's a spa and they offer guest rooms, you can go there, they offer fine dining, they have wellness amenities because being well and healthy is a big thing again. I don't know that there's ever not been a thing, but it's kind of a, I can't scroll through Facebook without seeing leggings ads right now, honestly. It's your CBD. But at the same time they wanna preserve that Victorian character, where this is, if you look up the so tell it's beautiful, that's really beautiful.

And they're not going to hide the past, they're not glorifying what happened, but they embrace it, they embrace the ghost stores, they acknowledge the fact that it had a past, if you ignore the past, if you say, oh that's bad, I'm just gonna totally ignore it, it doesn't change it. And there's that saying where if you don't study history, you're doing to repeat it. So there's nothing wrong with saying, yeah bad things happened here. And because if you know that, hopefully bad things won't happen again.

So guests come for the views, they come for the beautiful architecture of the building, they come for the history and for the hauntings. If I'm ever finding myself in Arkansas, I'm going here, I'm gonna get a hotel here unless it's ridiculously expensive. So this is a strange balance right now of comfort builds on a foundation of unresolved promise. You've got trauma, you've got comfort.

And it's got modern hospitality, but we're gonna kind of balance that with historical echoes of betrayal. So I think that's just gonna create some little air quote portal, not a legit portal, but just kind of a little, sah, occupying the same space. So I think it will be a very interesting place to investigate if I forget a chance. And for those who wanna do some paranormal tourism, I will tell you that area of Arkansas is actually very beautiful.

It's very green kind of jungly and it is kind of an economically depressed area. And so when I was joking saying it's Arkansas, it's not expensive, but really financially speaking, that area is very reasonable to go visit and do things in and it's beautiful. And so yeah, if you ever in the area, grab yourself a room and spend a night in Dr. Baker's death hotel.

Well, that sounds appealing. Just whatever you do, don't use a lot of the bottle, it'll burn. You bring your own amenities. Are you sure it's a lotion to begin with?

All right. Just a quick shout out to Radio Rodden. They, we are part of the Radio Rodden Network. The Radio Rodden show is a really fun listen.

Second morning show without the herbal music. So I'll go give our friends at Radio Rodden a listen after you go to the dollar episode, of course. So just a shout out to Radio Rodden, Chunga, Chris, Chandler and Greg. And before we get into the widow's web with Greg, we're going to talk a little bit about the wild thistle.

We had an investigation there this very recently and we're gonna talk about that in our next podcast. We're not gonna talk about that in this podcast, but beautiful little restaurant, fun, really encourage you to all go there. And so with that being said, Greg, take it over. Today we're gonna talk not with a lot, but it's a quick one about cat balls.

And no, it's not what you're thinking. It's not what you're thinking. Oh good. I was gonna say we didn't give the explicit warning at the start of the show.

So there's a little tiny ball that lights up. It's mainly used for cats to chase around because cats like things that flicker and then like chase them. But with all of our experiences that we've had and we've messed with them, child spirits like to play with these because of the lights and they'll mess with them. It works kind of like a rimpod, but without the noise or a rimpod, if it's moved or any type of movement, it goes off.

I've got two of them, Raymond, I think you've got like four or five. Yes. And I know for me, I think one of the most interesting of us, it's been a year, a couple years ago actually, we were at a residence and we had some of the cat balls sitting on the bed post and there was a child spirit. I believe the childhood around, I don't remember, but it.

This one. Yeah, the child, I think it was a little boy. He loved those. We would say light up, left one.

Boom, it would come on. This was he had smoke inhalation. Oh, okay, yes, yes. But you'd say light up the left one.

Boom, it would light up the right one. Boom. I mean on command. That sounds true.

On request, we would. And it was so interesting. And it's really interesting when you have one because we'll go and we'll set up a few here and there. And they can be very sensitive.

So sometimes if one goes off, we'll test it. And sometimes it's like, oh, that was me. But we'll all have one over across the room. There's no one over there.

No cars, no nothing. And it'll just go off. And that's fascinating. I love using the cat balls.

They just have an unfortunate name. What'd you say about South Air? I talked over you. That was me and Helle Storm.

We actually had to debunk one. Yeah, they're a fascinating tool. And they used to be so cheap. And then ghost hunters discovered them.

You know what? I have so many right now that I haven't bought any for a while. You used to get like five for an all-art practically. And they were super cheap.

And now they might be about two bucks each roughly. That's not terrible. Yeah, so as far as eBay, you can get six of them or for $22.70 before tax. Would this be an inappropriate time to do the barca say spandered or your pets?

Yeah, but as far as ghost hunting equipment goes, these are, they work really well. I've hardly ever had them not work. Occasionally they're going to not work. But they're a great tool.

And if you're saying, I want to get into ghost hunting, but I don't have a ton of money to drop on a rim pod or an SLS, this is something to grab a couple of them. Yeah, and I will have a cat ball that I recently got. Because I have not jumped on the cat ball bandwagon yet. But I have seen them do amazing things at investigation.

So I can second that. So speaking of cat balls, you may have some cat balls in your drunk drawer. If you do, get them out, use them to investigate with. And speaking of junk drawers.

Yes, we have a junk drawer today. So as always, I'm sponsored by the Jewish Performing Arts and Cultural Events Center. And we will be going there later this year. And always a fantastic time there.

So we are going to talk about the case of the invisible slapper. So, Castle, you're going to find this one interesting, because it has to do with police officers. So we'll- Let's get a slap on, slap off the slapper. Slap on.

So this takes place in the UK. And there's actually multiple documented police reports about officers there responding to just routine calls, and nothing crazy. And they claim that they were physically assaulted by something that they could not see. They weren't rushed, they weren't startled.

It was a one-handed slap. And they say that it's a hard on a slap that, you know, nearby officers, immediately they notice like a red mark, and they notice the face of the officer when he gets slapped, kind of go off to the side. So there's one incident that they talk about a lot, where there's an officer who is standing inside of a home, and his head just booms, snaps to the side as if he was struck. And when someone slaps you, you're going to shout out, you're going to stagger back a little bit.

And his partner was with him, and his partner was just a few feet away. And his partner says, yeah, I saw the officer's face move. From the impact, he didn't see anybody, there was no object, there was no movement that could explain it, no one else was close enough that they could have reached him, there were no doors opening, no thrown objects, nothing just, they're standing there, boom, the face moves. He just partners daggers back.

And the officer who was assaulted, he described the sensation as a flat palm, not like a punch like a woman, and I'm not saying it was a female spirit, but like a woman gets mad at you and slaps him. He says it was sharp, it was sudden, definitely intentional. And he says that there was no visible marks afterwards, which kind of rules out an actual physical altercation. Someone actually slaps you, you're going to have a great big red sting on your face.

So they searched the room because they're thinking, is there something in here? And all the people were accounted for, there was no strangers in the room, but they had to file the report. And so this is where it gets a little weird. I don't know how it is with you, Castle, but at least here in the UK, they're required to list a suspect or a cause.

And so in this case, officers were forced to write down variations of, struck by unknown means or assaulted by no visible person or cause unexplained. I'm sure, like, we have to write this down, but we're going to sound like an absolute idiot. So one officer reportedly apologized out loud after the incident. He was kind of joking, kind of not.

And he said that the atmosphere in the room immediately shifted when he did that. Just the way he described it was almost like, releasing of pressure from the room. And then nothing else happened after that. So the thing that makes the strange is it wasn't just one incident.

There was multiple officers, different kinds of calls that they were responding to, but they all described a similar detail. Deliberate, not accidental. It happened indoors, not outdoors, and it occurred with no warning. And if they acknowledged it, they didn't repeat.

So paranormal researchers love this case because it crosses into what's we're looking for, like official documentation. It's not just hearsay, it's not people telling stories. It's actual law enforcement officers trying to explain to supervisors what happened on this call. We were assaulted by absolutely nothing.

So there's no legend behind this. There's no creepy backstory. It's just a ghost. For whatever reason, saying mind your own business.

Kind of reminds me of just a little bit. Raven, you and I went on an investigation where there were some Native American artifacts inside the home that we determined they were kind of related to the haunting. And I can't remember what you said. I don't think it was very offensive, but whatever it was, you kind of offended the spirit.

And it just changed the atmosphere of the room. Kind of how you said that when the officer apologized, the atmosphere of the room changed. And I remember that we had said or did something, but maybe it was insensitive. I can't remember what it was exactly.

I remember exactly what it was, actually. Ah, good. So here we go. So we were talking to the spirit.

We determined it was a Native American spirit. And which made sense because in this home, there's a lot of Native American artifacts. I don't remember if the homeowners were Native American or if one of them were. I think it's collective.

I'm sure that they were cool. That's kind of what I was thinking too. And we were talking to the spirit. And the spirit was kind of given us back and forth answers.

Sometimes it was a yes and then it would say no to the same question. And so I will take this on. I will own up to it. I said something along the lines that are you drunk.

And the reason I said that was not because, there's the cliché of the drunk India, is that that was not it at all. The reason I said that was because just of the inconsistencies. But as soon as I said that, it wasn't a racial slur. It was just, it was like, dude, give me a straight answer.

But I think it was taken as a slur. And the atmosphere of the room went just so dark, so heavy. Just instantly. It was crazy.

You could just feel the anger. Yeah. And so I apologize. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I wasn't alluding to the whole New Drunk Indian thing. That's not where my mind was. My mind was giving a straight answer. And yeah, it would carry on.

But it was interesting, though, because when you apologize, just as quick as the room went really dark and heavy, the atmosphere changed and went back to how it was. It was just interesting. And this story kind of reminded me of that investigation that we did. So they don't want to be a toteo, especially when you're building.

Yes. In fact, Raven's son got married over the weekend. And Oteo's catered some of the food. And it was amazing.

They brought some sofas. And they were awesome. If I wasn't fat and tried to be on a diet, I would probably eat 15 of them. I could get a little kiss from the sofas.

But since I am trying to lose some weight, I only ate one. But they were so good. It made it hard to stop what's just one. And so we had so many comments from guests that said, we said, you've got to go try one.

We'll come up to me and say, yeah, you're not kidding. Those are amazing. And we want to thank them. That was a very generous wedding gift for our son.

He actually worked for Oteos for what, about 18 months or two years. And the owner, when he found out he was getting engaged, was so gracious to provide those for his reception. And we're grateful to them. Yes, it's amazing.

So thank you. Yes, go eat Oteos. So let's talk about EVPs. I'm going to play an EVP here.

And this EVP is from the Salt Lake City County Building. And it's interesting because you hear a lot of people say, oh, I don't like public investigations, because they're so loud. They're so much contamination. And I get it.

I used to really worry about that as well. But this building, the Salt Lake City County Building, is like marble inside. And so if you say hello, it's like hello, hello, hello. You're echoing down the halls.

When you get 40 people in there investigating, it's loud. I mean, there's just a lot of equity voices. And it's just that overwhelming. When you get a lot of people into a really equity building, it's that low murmur of voices, if you will.

So most people think it's not ideal to investigate a place that has a lot of ambient noise. And I would actually argue that I'm kind of noticing that any place helps with EVP. Have you experienced that at all, Raven? Or, or, Chad?

It depends for me. I can be someplace silent and not get a single EVP. And I can be someplace where there's a lot of noise and get EVPs galore and everything between. So for me, it really, yeah, it can be all or the above.

So this EVP, I was in the city county building. And as you listen to it, you guys are going to hear kind of the equity voices of all the other investigators who were there present throughout the building. But you're going to hear a very clear, very distinct old woman's voice say, help me. And obviously I didn't hear it because if an old woman walked up to me and said, help me, you'd hear me, I said, recording, how can I help you?

But I didn't hear it because it's an EVP, obviously. And the interesting thing about the EVP is I talked to another investigator who investigates their frequently, and he's kept her an EVP with the same woman's voice, the same old woman. So without further ado, let's listen. So as you see, you can kind of hear that voice if an old woman walked up and said, help me, I'd be like, oh, what's up, how can I help you?

But it's just there. What do you guys think about EVP? So for me, it's really clear. And it makes me wonder about the intent of the spirits, or some spirits, just where they are, and they're talking on some kind of quiet.

And it makes me wonder if this particular spirit kind of knows what's going on, and wants help and actually came and spoke into the recorder. And whether she knew what was going on, or she heard other people look up, because all of them say comes to your name in this recorder. I think she was intentionally trying to get your attention, trying to get a message across, rather than just talking. Yeah, I agree.

I don't know. I really like it. What do you think, Rick? Honestly, I get the vibe of it, maybe residual.

Chad, what are your thoughts? It's interesting, just the way that it comes through. I don't think so much as a residual, as maybe just kind of residual, but just calling out for help, maybe not so much directly to the investigation in general, but just maybe a call for help just all the time. Yeah, and I don't know.

It could be residual, but to me, it almost feels intelligent. Like just being approached and just helped me. So I don't know. Anyway, it's an interesting EVP, and it's one of my favorites that I've captured.

So that's our, can you hear me now? EVP. Tell us. So let's jump into our investigations.

We actually had three. We had two residential and then one that was kind of a commission. They asked us to come and do a private event. So the first one was West Jordan.

And Castle, I know that you went on that one. I didn't. So tell us about that investigation. Yeah, so this investigation, when we were contacted, I was reading through the details of it.

And it really struck me. In fact, I reached out to you and said, send me on this investigation. I need to be involved in this investigation. And so the family had built a house in West Jordan.

They built on a lot there. The only owners, it's a relatively new home. And several years old, but in the realm of homes, it's not been there for a tremendous amount of time. And the owner said that their older daughter, who's now in her twenties, was like, happy, go lucky, just a happy teenager.

And they moved into this house. And in her bedroom, she just started spending all her time in her bedroom. And she spent time in her bedroom. She's got darker and darker and just got kind of depressed and just started getting into things that she shouldn't have gotten into.

Just things that were just very out of character for her. And they said that when she got a little older, she moved out. And then she just kind of turned back into the person she was before she was in the bedroom. It's gotten married.

And since her life is going all right, as soon as she moved out though, their youngest daughter had moved into the bedroom, who was also a cheery, happy, go lucky teenage girl into cheerleading. And also she started kind of turning dark and spending a lot of time in her bedroom. And both sisters kind of started comparing notes. And they basically told their parents, we think our room is haunted.

The youngest daughter started talking about seeing black shadow figures. And when she started talking about it, the older daughter goes, yeah, I've seen those too. So they started comparing notes and realizing they're having very similar experiences in this bedroom. And this bedroom's upstairs on the second story of this home.

So I took a team in. And when we got to the house, we were invited in. And immediately, as I was standing in the living room, I can feel like kind of a darkness and a pressure coming from upstairs into my right. And as I'm talking to the homeowners, they say, it's in the room.

And the room is up there. And they point upstairs into my right. You could just feel it. It was kind of like my space heater analogy earlier.

It was like you just feel like radiating from a certain direction, just hitting your body on that one side. So myself and four or five investigators, we went up to this bedroom. And we quickly determined that this was the only room in the house that had this effect. And the other thing the homeowners told us, they said periodically we get these strange unexplained puddles in the bedroom.

So we got up there and we started investigating. And there was a closet in the room. And the closet was very, very dark. You could just feel like negative energy just kind of emanated in this closet.

And then investigating, we found that there were two spirits in the home and they're both centered in this room. One was a water elemental, which I suspected based on the puddles that then explained puddles. And the other one was a type three. And during our investigation, we determined that both spirits were tied to the land there, before the house was built.