I'm not podcast podcast is mine killer podcast is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my podcast I will let it pass over me and through me when it is passed I will turn the inner eye to see its path where it has gone. There will be nothing only I will remain Very good. Thank you.
Thank you. That's what you got to do It's what you have to do exactly me you were you were running a couple lines before we started recording You're talking to me. I'm not talking to you. Well, please talk.
Hi. Hi I feel like that you were doing a very good impression of a line reading from this film that you could also slot you were doing Kenneth I'm telling on is Baron hard. Well in this movie Baron Harkonin. Sure.
What's the new? Oh, the new movies is Harkoninin, which I think is correct I don't know if there's a correctly accurate. It's I guess right It's like do we go by how did Frank Herbert say it or do we go by like how linguistically should this be said written out? Right these made up words.
I mean it's thousands of years in the future. Oh, say whatever you want. Yeah, we know Well, which you prefer? I think I think I default to Harkonin Just because that's what I grew up.
Yes hearing having seen David Lynch's 1984 dude The topic of this discussion today celebrating it's 40th anniversary 40th anniversary It's pretty wild for this movie to be hitting 40 in a year where a dune movie is seen as the great triumph of the American Commercial, but savior the savior of theatrical presentation is still the highest person from the year as of this moment I think that right that record will soon fall inside out to will surpass it without a doubt But it is the number one film of 2024 in June, you know in June held on to it for six months Yeah, I mean 282 million domestic 711 worldwide and all your people have been like I can't we have more dunes Yeah, if we had a couple more dunes this year when people finally figured out dunes got the spice dunes got the spice and he controls the universe It's bit spit spit. I said you're gonna put podcast in there not trying to know but I mean I was space and out because I was enjoying the litany against fear But sure sure sure absolutely one of the many self-suthing recitations Yeah, the characters of dunes say to themselves rather than move the plot along Here's another thing I used to recite that to myself in high school before tests Absolutely, and I think it's still valuable to me when I'm combating anxiety or in or fear of empty you still do it I do but I can never remember it all the way through okay used to have it verbatim No, I never actually I get hung up on the I will turn I let the peer the fear pass through me and When it is gone I will turn in the where the fear went only I will remain or something That's right. I will face my fear over me and through me right over the inside I will turn the inner eye to see it's I really have a very distinct memory of trying to memorize that in the Harvard the Harvard Stop on the red line in Harvard Square. I was going to go visit a friend there or something I will tell you it's one of my favorite when I was in high school I will say this non-hyprobolicly I want to say it's one of my favorite moments in podcasting period is when you brought your dear friend friend to the podcast Passion future guest David Rees.
Oh, yeah on doughboys. Yeah kind of you to welcome. You know you're connecting friends We were promoting tiktah at the time, which is still available on Hulu. Hey get your plugs in early depending on what subscriptions Yeah, maybe watch well in Disney plus always be plugging I say or in the spirit of David We just didn't always be heart-plugging very true.
That's what's your favorite moment? You brought David Rees on to doughboys He did not know the show well. He did not know them. You were sort of making this connection I forget how it happens, but at some point he makes some side swipe at how bored he was by Dunny Villeneuve's dune Uh-huh and said something to the effect of like what is this none of this?
I don't understand what any of this is and you just went I can tell you exactly what it is and then just like launched into what clearly was still the effects of you having memorized a bunch of stuff I know but you started like laying out the map of explaining how the world works the world's yeah I'm not a multi-plains area I'm sure you have someone being that close a friend of yours and someone you've worked with for so long right taking such a Fucking hit at a thing that you love so dearly and basically framed it as like this is impenetrable. No one could understand That's the Rishi and way though. Yes, like I don't think you would have said that if you didn't know that I already loved it Right, but this is the Rishi and Jihad your deepest heart song is the worlds of doing in many ways is it? Is that correct true?
I feel like what's the podcast? Who's our guests way to sex is blank check with Griffin and David? It's a podcast about my which one of you is? I'm David it's podcast about my Directors directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given series of blank checks make whatever crazy passion products They want sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce a baby This is a mini series on the films of David Lynch is called Twin Pods Firecast with me today We are talking about his I mean his biggest bounce.
He has a couple bounces, but the scale of no no there is absolutely no competition What would possibly be the competition there are other one? I mean fucking firewalk with me? Yeah, I mean I guess the other argument for the bounce right is like twin peaks getting away from him Yes, but no no doing is obviously that's the definition of a bounce for us because it's the moment where he's like I cannot I must reorient my career so that doesn't happen again firewalk with me He's like I made the movie I wanted to make I'm sorry. Well, that's the thing about David Lynch and Dune which is that this is the one that got away from him There's the pain for that apparently to this day Yes, we can go like this episode There's a new like news cycle of some quote he gave in a recent interview.
Yeah of like I died on that movie And I don't think I've ever fully recovered. Yeah, yeah, right. Oh, it was very very painful for him I mean it was uncomfortable shoot. Yeah, many many week are you want to make a movie that doesn't go?
So I have a I have a theory that we can get into later That perhaps why I mean he says because he didn't get final cut which is understandable But there's more to it than that very clear deep wound that he feels about this movie rewatching this again Just this morning right before a course or hadn't seen this film in 20 years. I'm using two hours and 17 minutes Yeah, I certainly watched it on TV four by three standard definition I think I might have seen the extended television version, which is just nonsense. I think I've never seen it It's not like an extended version in any real sense. It's just they just put shit in it I think it's quite odd right right what we talked about this Waterworld episode behind the paywall but this for a very long time especially with like a big expensive movies like this Yeah, if your movie had an odd running time.
It wasn't a clean half hour End time. Mm-hmm. The studio would just without the permission the director be like here's all the deleted scenes We have that are finished that you can just put in a narrative order that makes this movie totally shapeless and formless But I know you're having now It's a three hour block instead of it being weirdly under two hour block you either cut it down or you add a bunch and Lynch hated them doing that so much that he demanded his name be taken off the TV version He's right. Yeah, it's an uncool effect But I think that's what I had seen sure well, he had originally wanted the film to be like about three hours We'll talk about oh I was gonna say watching today knowing that he just doesn't felt like he didn't have final control It is fascinating how much this movie still thoroughly has the editing rhythms of a David Lynch film 100% of the David Lynch movie I think he overstates that yeah, he wanted to make a sequel to this movie But he was not making this movie being like oh god what a disaster Let me get me as far away from this as possible right like he didn't like how it turned out He didn't like what they did to it, but like you know, yes This is a David Lynch movie and through and through the quote that we really should do is the sleeper must awaken Which is like his most important quote in this movie because he made that up right?
Mm-hmm like that's the thing where you when you hear it Which is the line I associate with this movie and I think I saw this movie first before I read doing that for me It may or may not be true like when I was a teenager and then I read doing I was like why does nobody say the sleeper must awaken Then you realize like no, no, that's Lynch. That's the transcendental meditative boy David Lynch TM and that's right mark and transcendental meditation exactly That's what's going on with Paul like that's how I'm you know relating to this as he reads this book He cares about this material. It's just you know So we're it's a weird result. We'll talk about it's a lot of stuff.
I love about it, but it's a weird result I can't really talk about it. Okay. Let me talk about it. I thought we were gonna go club random mode His sunglasses on To do with this fat ass Sanborn free roll Or guess today your friend of the show.
Yes, okay, our guest, yes. Co-creator Star of Dicktown, now streaming. Co-star and Co-creator of Dicktown, still, I like to say, still streaming on Hulu and also Disney Plus and also Disney Plus stars, depending on where you live and what subscription you have. Yeah, and post of the Judge John Hodgin podcast every week on Max and Paul.
I wanna say something else about, well, have you said his name? Obviously he just said his name is part of the show he hosts. Yeah, I should also mention, I know this is a great shame of yours, his book, Vacation Lane, is only available in hardback. You can only get it in the firmest.
No, but that's not true. In fact, there's, John, if it were available in the back. If it were available in paperback, I would have heard about it by now with all due respect. You're a good friend, then I do think I would have heard what I know that's available in that.
That's what makes me so excited to announce right here. What? For the very first time Vacation Lane is available in paperback wherever you get books. As is my other book, my Dalian status.
But can I get it with John Hodgin? Oh, John Hodgin. John Hodgin. Can I get it with like plastic wrapping around the cover?
You know what I mean? A real crinkly. The crinkles. Just like a library edition.
Exactly. I'll cook one up for you. Here's the other thing, John Hodgin. This is your fifth episode.
Oh, as a full-time guest on a main feed episode. You have sort of dropped in a Coraline. A couple other times, such as on a Coraline episode. A couple of cameos.
You had a couple of voice names. I've jacked Nastika. You've missed it. You watched Avengers Infinity War without one.
That's true. It's funny because you had watched it the night before thinking we were just going to discuss it. I didn't realize it was a watch. I didn't realize it was a watch.
I was really bad at it. I had a really good time. Okay, wait a second. And by the way, when you say full-time guest, I only wish it was true.
I wish this were my full- John. I wish this was from my full- John. You're hired. Just come on.
Who cares? Yeah, you know what? I'm sure you are. We're going to collect all the chips.
It's a pure licensing play. I'm going to pay you an Honorarium. Oh, yeah. I like it when they call it an Honorarium.
I mean, I mean, like, you mean money? You're like, yeah. I'm like, okay, let's do a little recess. You try to buy it.
I'll buy the franchise. All right, go ahead. A Master Builder. People often say it's maybe your best episode ever.
Incredible day. Come in. A major day. Evil bed too.
Yes, that's true. This is five. What's the fourth one I'm forgetting? It's a college and a steamboat build junior.
Yeah, a big five. But you know what? I'm not saying that there's too much to discuss. It's just enough to discuss.
It's fine. I mean, I just feel like this has always been a very big emotional topic for me. One of the things I have heard you invoke the most often. I just know this about you.
This is important to you. Frank Herbert's Dune, the world of. Yeah. And then the next one is the first time I've ever seen this movie.
I'm not saying that there's too much to discuss. It's just enough to discuss. It's fine. You know what I mean?
I just feel like this has always been a very big emotional topic for me. Well, I've only read it all over the world and I've read the talk. I've read the research books. I've read the last catalog of Arthur's Dune, the world of.
Yeah. And then specifically largely within that also the Lynch film. Yeah. How major both are for you?
Well, I have only ever read Dune. Okay. I've never read any of the other books. Interesting.
Because I have read some synopsis of those and they seem too weird even for me. John, John, John... It's time for you to read the other books. I'm doing it right now.
Really? Really? Great. the children of the people in Dune.
So you're still basically work. It's like two babies. Right. And then God Emperor of Dune is like, okay, 3000 years later.
And you're like, what? And then heretics of Dune is like, okay, okay. More thousands of years after that. And you're like, well, who are the characters?
And they'll be like, well, this guy, his name is like Blark, but he kind of looks like King Leto, Duke Leto. So kind of think of him as a Duke Leto. Sure. Like it starts doing that to you.
And Duncan Idaho comes back and says that he's like every single book. Wow. If there is a Dune book, Duncan Idaho is coming out of a clone tank being like, what is it now? And they're like, hello, welcome.
It's the year eight billion. One of the top names in science fiction, right? Because like Duncan Idaho is a great name. Truly sounds like he picked that out of like a two names out of a bingo ball of potentialness.
I hope he like took a whole day by the pool after he wrote down Duncan Idaho. I'm not topping that today. Yeah. Like Duncan Idaho, because Dune takes place 10,000 years, not in our future.
10,000 years after the alert. After the forming of the spacing guild or something. Correct. So many thousand years into our future plus 10,000.
And yet it's this whole incredible. I mean, this is what makes the book so addictive, spice like addictive is the world building that goes into this where it is this massive cultural, massive cultural mishmash of words. I like that word. Yeah, it's a multiple mishmash.
It's a multiple mishmash. Of words and concepts and religious concepts. Yeah, it's like daunting to some new readers or whatever. Yeah, but when you get to the name, and so there's a guy named Paul, fine, you get it.
Jessica, Jessica, these are all real names. When you get Duncan Idaho, how did we get here? To me, there is at least 20,000 years of future history and how we get to Duncan Idaho is a name. I like to Duncan Idaho right now.
Just like a few years ago. You like to dunk an Idaho? I feel like a sort of like I'm dipping a cookie and something. Duncan don't just do a spin off.
They should do a part of the shit. I was gonna say, how did that not happen? I know, it's crazy. That's the only guy who's making money over here.
Ben's only thinking about it. He's got that grandson. Hey, that's just how I am, baby. You were playing at the dollar sign.
The first thing that's friendly is sad. I was like, I'm gonna say I swear. Jesus, cot, that's a hot hat. You said Jesus and I was like, you really don't have to pre apologize for that.
But then, yeah. Man, use that quote in my marketing material. Don't stop the quote. Please don't.
That's incredible. Duncan Idaho is a name, right? You're just like, who could ever embody that? Right.
He's a villain, he's a villain, he's not a guy I like all the time. But Jason Momoa, if he had any other name in the world, he would be Duncan Idaho. Yeah, Duncan Idaho. He just fits that so fucking perfect.
He made a lot of sense. Richard Jordan is Duncan Idaho doesn't make a huge impression. In 1980. One of my least, I like Richard Jordan as an actor.
He's amazing and what's it called, Friends of Eddie Coyle, which is who we love. And he's, what's on the rock? It's on the rock? I was gonna say, are you telling me you lost another submarine?
Logan's run, right? He's a guy. Great guy. Yeah.
There are several bits of casting in this movie that I'm kind of like fine with, he's one of the ones where I'm like, there's no oomph to this, what the matter? Isn't this guy supposed to be fun? Right. Kind of like mega charismatic.
Right. You know, everyone loves Duncan Idaho. It's the whole point. Why did he send him first?
He just looks like your Irish uncle who got sober about 15 years ago and he's like really white knuckling it. On paper, not telling me what project this is for, just listing the actors and being like, this is the cast of a David Lynch movie. I'm like, holy fucking shit. Perfect.
Right. I want to work with all of these people. Sure. Some of these names like Linda Hunter, right?
Right. At least half of them are misapplied or in one scene. No impact. Who are you thinking of?
Linda Hunter makes no impact when that should be Islam done. It's not a huge role. Right. Jordan's a perfect example.
One that just doesn't work at all. I mean, the ones that work are like, I feel, I mean, look, we'll be talking, we can. As David since would say, we're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about it.
We can't do this episode without comparing this movie to the Villnove films, which are experiencing this fucking victory lap of like, holy shit, this guy pulled off twice. The thing that everyone had said for decades was not possible. Right. And I think you look at the way he cast those movies and there's a lot of really smart strategic casting.
Like, this is not literal, but A, I need to fill this movie with faces that are really comforting to audiences. People who are kind of protesting. Short casting. I'm your burden marks in and people are like, I get what this is.
Right. And the same way you're like, maybe the character is written isn't obviously a Jason Mo type, but Jason Mo will give the energy that needs in a movie that doesn't have two hours to spend with this guy. Right. And suppose to the David Lynch approach to casting, which is, let's find the weirdest looking character actually cases and then put boils on them, which usually works for his movies because very often those people just have to represent energy.
Sure. This movie, and I want to make it clear. I like this film a lot. Yeah.
It played so much better for me on this watch. But unsurprisingly for a number of reasons, I do think there's something to like, this thing has been adapted well now. There's a pressure off of this movie. And I also think watching it now, having seen the villain movies, not having read the books, I'm like, it's easier for me to track what's going on in the plot of this movie because I can keep relating it back to the movie that is more narratively functional.
Sure, sure. Look, it looks incredible. But like Sting is an example of like Lynch doing the smart kind of casting. Right.
Everyone wants to see Sting walk out of that scene bath. Totally with his winged god beast. Sting is great in this movie, but I always forget that he is in this movie for five minutes. Really?
So like, I think I'm in an outsized way in this film and it's really like two scenes. And it's probably one part two of the villain is all built around that character. Because that's what we've been saving. Right.
So can I, I've never, I've only ever read Dune as I mentioned, but read at what age? Well, here's the thing. In terms of my experience of David Lynch's Dune, it is an epic story encompassing multiple different books of my experience, beginning with a prologue. I go to my mom's nursing school reunion at Yale.
Right. And I, I talk about a club random. I had a great mom who was a nurse. That's wonderful.
She went to the nursing school. One summer reunion, 1984, summer 1984. Okay. I know this movie's coming out.
I've got nothing to do with this nursing school reunion. I've been lying around in a dorm room and, and we'll try to redo. How old are you in 1984? What are we talking about?
I'm turning 13. Perfect age. And now you know of Dune. It's a best selling sci-fi work.
You've certainly heard of Dune. Yes. And I know that the movie is coming out and that's why I feel like I've always been a science fiction and fantasy film and television. But in terms of books, book learning, it was never, I was not as deep into it as I might say.
But here is a film being positioned as a major cultural event. Sure. This movie is released with the energy of here you go. And I'm also a star wars.
And not only that, the messaging of this is one of the things that inspired star wars. This is the real shit. Yeah. And I'm also a pretentious only child.
So I was going to ask. Lynch was on your radar already. Of course. Yeah.
I think I don't think I had seen a racer head yet, but I definitely was aware and maybe had seen the elephant man. And I knew that he was a really interesting director. And Dune is this, you know, this long reputation as being a very thinky book, which the music here here is I assume. I'm a very, I got very thinky ears.
So I'm trying to read this thing in my deep and deep study. And I find it unfucking penetrable. Set it aside. And I'm like, dad, take me to go see Ghostbusters, which came out that summer.
And that's what I remember from that period of time. This is kind of an infamous summer of just like pure pleasure blockbuster movies. Right. Really host coffee.
Just covered that one. These movies that just like fucking hit and just go down easily for everyone. Right. Yes.
And I put Dune aside having read maybe two chapters, barely being able to understand what was going on. I was very little, not knowing at all that this movie was going to entwine itself with my life for decades. I would soon the book while largely readable, I would say, does not hold your hand the start. And instead, it's kind of just like, let's just plunge your head into the ice.
It throws your hand into a box across the same immediately. That's very true. That's the opening scene. And it throws a lot of words that you that are not English, essentially, such as Quizat's Hatterock, right?
Where you're just like, what Gomjabar, what is this? And you're just kind of like, I think I had the same experience of like, I need to put this down. I don't, I can't like read this in a relaxed way. And to read this with a dictionary or something.
Yeah. And may I plug once more, hard plug once more. I'll allow it. All right.
Thank you. Perfect. No, available only in pixels. Okay.
There is a post titled a secret report to the society. There is a paywall. It's like $5 a month. You can join and then delete it.
Beyond the paywall, there is a 37 minute recording of me reading the first chapter of Dune out loud in a thick, main accent. That's your kind of thing. Yeah. You can hear me talk about that Gomjabar quite a bit.
Yeah. But that's just a little plug. I think I think about the money then. You see what I'm saying?
I'm trying to monetize this. I've seen you hustle and I love it. Yeah. All right.
Thank you very much. And I'm going to say this. Nine at the absolute oldest, if not even eight. My best friend elementary school was a kid named Keir Kramlich.
Great name. Check it back. Best science fiction name in the biz. Sorry.
Nine years into this podcast, I never named Rob Keir Kramlich. Can you say it? I'm slow. You hear it.
Right. It's like someone comes out of a ship and is like, I am heralded to change Keir Kramlich. K-E-I-R. Yeah.
Space name. K-R-A-M-L-I-C-H. I will almost have to get a message from him when this episode comes out saying, hey, a bunch of people told me you said my name on the podcast. I haven't spoken a little bit.
But he... He's just a reader. Yeah. He loves I-Fi.
Yeah. Would constantly be recommending things to me. Yeah. And I'd be like, this is a little bit tough.
Yeah. Like, for eight or nine, he was pretty precocious in terms of what he was reading. For sure. And I remember him being like, I robot roles.
Right. And I was reading and I was like, I can kind of go with this. But I also understand I'd probably be more into this if I waited five years. He got all in on Doom, which is insane to think about eight or nine.
Yes. Nine at the absolute oldest, he was reading all of them. And it was just like, this is the shit. And this is around the time when the Star Wars special editions have come out.
Maybe the year two after that. Maybe that was his bridge to it. Right. But he was just sort of like, hey, we had just both gotten so Star Wars pill.
And I was like, you have to read this. And I remember maybe making it through half a chapter. Right. Which is like, this is impossible to what your point is.
It's still, I mean, having just read it out loud yesterday and recorded it. I can tell you that it's still pretty opaque. Yeah. I now understand it.
It's so good. But now I'm like, now I'm like, and you know, I did end up reading the book probably, you know, 25 years ago now. Yeah. And I loved it when I finally was ready for it.
But this, it's, you know, there's a section in this opening chapter in which Paul describes his meditation practice and it just becomes simply drug language. This is the kind of non sentence, non complete sentence drug language. The exact kind of stuff that makes people think for a very long time spoke was fundamentally unadaptable. Like, are it's key pleasures, things that do not translate to a narrative in six times.
Yeah. Especially relative to the inherent cost of realizing this world. Right. When you watch this movie, David Lynch is doing it in 1984.
1984. And you have, yes, now seen the Denis Villeneuve films, which I want to say, run probably combined about two or five hours and 15 minutes, right? For some, it's like maybe two and a half hours. I think they're both like two and a half seconds.
I think it was a little longer. Yep. So at five hours, 15 minutes. So I was watching David Lynch's doing it.
And I was like, I'm just going to clock where Villeneuve cut it off, right? Right. Where Villeneuve decided to split the story in half. We just basically did the end of book one in the book, book is three books, which by the way, book one was a complete story before initially he's serialized in an analog magazine.
He showed it book one. And then it was a couple of years before he came back and wrote book two and three also serialized before the back. I think also that some of the sequels were serialized. It was how it was done back then.
It was done. It's an hour and a half into David Lynch's dune is the end of Villeneuve's dune part one. So everything that he made the second film is contained within 45 minutes. Correct.
Including credits. And my wife was watching with me. My wife has seen the Villeneuve movies as no other knowledge of dune and was shortening at the point that, you know, suddenly Virginia Madison's like, uh, and then this happened. And then she took the water of life and he did too.
And let's keep it going. You know, where you can just get this sense of like, oh, they just have to run through the rest of this. It has the most insane yada yada yada I have ever seen in a movie, which is by the way, they fell deeply in love. They gave it for two years.
His sister was born. She grew to maturate. Yeah. War.
Things that Villeneuve was like, I think my audience can't handle at all. The movie had to act as like, anyway, she got born, then she grew up a little bit. She could talk. She's like a talking six year old.
You got that. Okay. She's going to be very important. She'll have like five lines, but like hugely important to the plot.
Kills the villain. Anyway, respect to Alicia with my fellow. Have you seen the unedited footage of her? She has a little Boston accent that they dubbed over and it's adorable to see footage from the new 84 of little Alicia with talking in like a mass like high vision.
Yeah. It's very cute. Sims is hall of fame. All-time girl.
I had a huge crush on Alicia with specifically in Sibyl. Yes. Where she was, of course, Sibyl's rude daughter. Yes.
I never did. Okay. Well, I guess I'll go buck myself. I love to bring out to be sick on some people, largely don't remember, such as Becker and Sibyl's another one where obviously Sibyl Shepherd was the, I'm Sibyl, I'm basically Sibyl Shepherd, right?
I'm this old messy actress. But then Bransky ran away with it. Bransky is her like martini-swelling friend who's fun and Alicia is like the uptight daughter who's like, mother, why do you have to be so crazy? Like, I just want to like play concert piano or whatever.
It seems like kind of. Child's just a mythology. Yes. Was speaking at the age or you know, reading at the age of two, playing piano concert David Lynch, the age of three or whatever.
It is just cast in this movie. She's a great actress. I agree. I mean, but I feel your affection for her.
I remember learning. I was a young person from Massachusetts in this movie and it wasn't me. I was a little mad about it. Oh, sure.
Yeah. This is like me with a hidden paneteria in the voice cast of Bugs Life. Exactly. How dare they cast any child?
That's right. Yes. I was right here. Yeah.
Even if I'm the wrong gender for this role, I have no acting credits. I want to go through more of your journey to this becoming such a key text. So that was the prologue among, you know, when you're talking about doing that, you got to have a lot of prologue. But you do see it in theaters after abandoning the book, like a coward.
This film came out in December, 1984. So now I'm all 13. Sure. In the midst of my, the dead center of my 13th year.
And can I just read for comparison? A big budget film. You have to imagine a one-time up on this list. Your speed runs with the top 10 highest grossing films of 1984 were Ghostbusters, Beverly Hills Cobb, Indiana Jones and Temple Doom, the exact amount of uncomfortable that was still tolerable for an audience.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Controversial but not on this level, right? Then Gremlins, the Karate Kid, Police Academy, Footloose, Romancing the Stone, Star Trek III, The Search for Spock, Splash. America's going straight down the middle.
That's incredible. That's incredible. Yeah. But like, that's the temperature of the audience.
Have you just ruined the box office game or no? No. What do you think Doom is on that list? I think Doom is number 23.
32. You had it. Just reverse it. Yep.
Below teachers and cannonball run two. Yeah. That's the kind of stuff that clips at the box office. Teachers with Nick Nolte, right?
You're telling me. The classic poster is the Wic. The Dynamite Wic. Oh, yeah.
I know the poster. Also the Great Science Action box book. Yeah. Ring me Dynamite Wic.
So December, Tim McGonagle, my old friend, and I. We're going to go see this movie. We're both really into it. My dad has known that I'm really into it.
He has gotten me this book, The Making of Doom, which I handed. I still have a copy of it here. Maybe he gets that to me. Actually, he might have given that to me for Christmas after I saw the movie because I remember receiving it going, this is no longer necessary for me to read.
We no longer want to learn. We get to see it in Brookline Village at a movie theater that isn't there anymore. My dad's friend, Fred Savini, picked up some moonlighting hours as a manager. He ripped our tickets and then he handed me, and Tim, the famous glossary, which was what Universal printed because they were so anxious.
They were a little anxious about the confusion that people would feel hearing so many different oddball terms, Fremen, Arakin, and most conjubars. Because this movie has no exposition. It's not because movie tries to land in it. The things were not going to work down.
In media race. Yes. And I remember- So you're a glossary. I never saw that.
I never saw that. Yeah. God, I wish someone would hand me a glossary before a blockbuster right now. You would think that for me, I would be hell yeah.
But I remember sitting there as a 13-year-old looking at this thing going, oh no. I understand this will never work. Right. Yes, the general feeling of like if you're handing out glossaries of the multiplexies, you've lost that.
No one had ever seen this. This had never happened before as far as I'm concerned. I don't think it ever happened again. And I'm like, this kind of speaks to me because I'm- Sure.
I definitely am a reference book nerd. And I love having to read this. Yes. It's like, who doesn't want to go to the library while they see a movie?
Yeah, precisely. And I really needed something to look at too because this whole moment was infused with this teenage romantic charge. Sure. Because there was a girl who was a little bit older than me sitting next to me with her mom.
Ooh. And the girl and her mom, and I remember the girl was wearing a Canadian textie, denim jacket, denim jeans. Sure. Sort of the still suit of its day.
Exactly so. And she and her mom were talking about the novel Dune. And unlike me, they had both read it. Wow.
Talk about a girl with your dreams. Obviously you want to marry- I'm getting goosebumps right now thinking about it. And she and she and her mom were talking about it and they were talking about their favorite characters and the mom said, I think my favorite character is the sandworms. Sure.
What this mom is so cool, this girl is also going to be very cool. And she's like, I agree with you. And then she turns to me, the girl, and says, are you looking forward to the movie? And it is not an option for me to say any words to a girl.
It was not legal at that point. No, no, no, it was fatal to me. It was my gomjabar. Like if I accidentally flinched and turned my head and said anything to her, I would die.
So this glossary gave me something to look at. It's like, yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Let me get back to what's kitty prime, exactly. What's there is that?
I wish they had a map on here or whatever. And then the movie came on. The first 40 minutes, of course, are exposition. Yes.
Like multiple exposition drops starting for Jinimads. Jinimads and giant floating head talks for about four uninterrupted moments, fades out and goes, oh, also I forgot to mention it. It comes literally. It comes back to the second.
It's not a second. I kind of love it. It's wild. When she said, and I've seen this movie multiple times, I always forget, but she goes on and on and on about the world.
One more thing. And then she comes back and says, oh, I forgot to turn. Who are you fucking talking to? Yeah.
Forgot to know who. And that's before you even get into a secret report within the guild, where they then show you pictures of the planets, like doing all this work to get you to understand what's happening, and none of it is working. That's when I started stroking it. I mean, just like if there's just like some 80s optical effect of planets where they're like, here are the planets of Dune.
I know they do it better than I just did it, obviously. No, that was good. You know, like, yeah, Key D Prime, can you tell it's the bad one? It's black, you know, like, and I'm just so on board with that nonsense.
I know, like you're saying, you like it or don't like it. You stroke out when you see the stroke. It was a disgusting. You explain it.
I obviously got you. Do not do that in a movie theater. It's not a company. You have an arrow 4K.
Or the Tiki theater. What's the Tiki theater? Yeah. The first time I tried to watch this on cable was, you know, my budding nerds in a field yet that I'm trying to level up.
Yeah. And I think David probably similar to this. Like, any time like a magazine published, like, any sort of listicle, I was like, well, I gotta go through it. Here's a watching guy.
It's like 30 things. Some magazine must have published some like the greatest box office disaster of all time. He was always on those lists. Right.
So I'm curious, I'm trying to knock out all the flops. Right. The mega flops. And I put on what I think was extended TV cut.
And this shit starts, I'm immediately like, I'm never getting through this. Right. I think I did watch it to the end probably spread out over a week. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I might have recorded it or saved it to a theater or whatever the fuck it was. Sure. But yes, it's like at this point, now I love it.
Sure. I love this movie. I get a tremendous joy from this movie, but I'm saying I love the same thing you love, which is just them. Oh, right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But when you're 13, you're not really all for that. Right. I mean, even so at the end of the the end of the screening, I, you know, this could be me writing memories, you know what I mean?
But I feel like my memory was and Tim, I'm still friends with Tim McGonagall. So we've talked about it. We both look to each other like, what the hell? You know, like it obviously did not work.
Yeah. We were very confused. It ends very abruptly. Yeah, quite abruptly.
Yes. And then you're sent out into the lobby. The girls probably going to try to talk to you again. So you got to move very quickly and get out and try to find the injury.
Right. Right interference put on the blinders. And you know, as you say, it's like it's not very parsable as a film. It's hardly enjoyable.
I mean, some of it is freaking revolted. It almost feels like a bike design antagonist. Yeah. No, it's not a fun watch.
No. And then it's over. And then you're launched into the planet Earth again. Yeah.
And yeah, there are things that I remember remembering like, how did this happen? Yes. And the thing like, just starting with the costume design. Like I was not a student of film particularly.
Like I couldn't tell you exactly why none of it made sense or worked together as a film. Like I thought a lot about it since then. But simply like, oh, you're going to have the, you're going to have everybody in this sort of like Napoleonic Wars military costumes. Very different from any science fiction film you've ever seen.
Yes. The set design obviously is incredible. It is. It's obviously building a world that is old fashioned in a futuristic setting.
Watching this on the 4K. Yeah. Lovely arrow. Beautifully restored.
Yeah. I thought to myself early on and I went, let's see if this holds up, if this opinion holds up throughout the entire viewing. Like this film looks as good as any of the original Star Wars films. Yeah.
I think it is pretty immaculate looking, obviously from a design standpoint. But I also think it's safe for like a noise, two or three shots. I think almost all of the effects hold up. Oh, really?
Definitely not. I love how this movie looks. But in the end when they're writing the worms. I think that's the one sequence that doesn't look good to me.
You kind of need that sequence to look good. That sequence is the one hammer. Like, you know how Star Wars ends with the Death Star trench run? That looks good.
You can watch, you can go out and you can watch your DC like, oh, take all the George Lucas and still don't look. Matt lines visible. I agree with him. Where is it?
Like, I mean, my Forky was saying, like, I don't really know what's going on. And obviously what's going on is they're writing the worms and bone everyone up. But you still only kind of just see the worms doing this. Not really doing this.
I feel like I needed this. You know, everything else looks pretty good. And for the list, I don't know just because what David did was just visual. At first he was doing this and then he started doing this.
I would say it was more of a this, but yeah. You're right. No, no, that's good correction. I think the sets are tremendous.
The sets are tremendous. I mean, the sets are better than say the Lucas. The first Star Wars where the Lucas Star Wars looks incredible, but the jinky, you know, not jinky, that's not the word, but like the kind of dirt, the fluteess of it is part of it. It's covering up for anything.
It's part of that world that he's actually making. It's very, I don't want to say this before. It's a story coming up. It looks great.
Where they came up a lot. But like in contemporary reviews was Rococo. Sure. Yes.
Yes. Incredibly elaborate. Yes. But in terms of a lush and decadent design that spoke to the feudal system that this future world, the Sutra universe works on.