DZ-83: A Very Thematic Stand-up Special!

Listen if you want to understand how stand-up comedians grip audiences and build emotional arcs (and what narrative tools screenwriters can borrow from comedy)! Standup comedians can keep audiences gripped to their every word for over an hour, and often bring them to emotional climaxes by the end. So how do they do it and what tools can apply to scripted narratives? For this deep dive into standup, Stu and Chas are joined by the super-talented comic and podcaster Alice Fraser. Which is rather fortuitous. Because not only are we schooled on comedy techniques, but because Alice also has a Masters in Narrative Rhetoric. So as we dive in to NANETTE by Hannah Gadsby, BABY COBRA by Ali Wong and IT’S THE FIREWORKS TALKING by Daniel Kitson (with more than a passing reference to Alice’s own show SAVAGE and INSIDE by Bo Burnham), we analyse narrative structure, transitions, set-ups and pay-offs used by stand-ups… But we end up focusing on exploring thematic tools - particularly the Aristotelean concepts of the rhetorical triangle: - logos (how the story is told); - ethos (who the storyteller is); and - pathos (how the audience emotionally engages). With these powers combined, storytellers of all kinds can produce work of thematic power and resonance. Or just funny. And in backmatter, we discuss adapting Savage for the recorded stage with Alice! This episode brought to you by ScriptUp – https://www.scriptupstudio.com – use promo code DZ10 to get 10% off. Enjoy! As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes. LIKE THIS EPISODE? Watch and comment on YouTube. Send us feedback. Thanks to our Patrons, especially Thomas, Garrett, Bjorn, Randy, Jesse, Theis, Sandra and Khrob. → Read the transcript for this episode. ——— "If you introduce this idea in a harmless form, then they're willing to swallow it later. When, if you presented it raw out front, they would recoil." — Alice Fraser @ 00:11:22 ——— CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Q: What can screenwriters learn from the storytelling techniques used by stand-up comedians? 00:03:25 – Alice Fraser on Comedy 00:07:54 – › Comedy as a tool for confronting difficult emotional truths 00:12:03 – › Presence, politics, and visual storytelling in BABY COBRA and NANETTE 00:15:44 – › How format shapes stand-up structure across cultures 00:22:33 – Comedy tools to be explored 00:26:21 – NANETTE by Hannah Gadsby 00:29:03 – › Ethos, logos, pathos as structural framework for comedy 00:34:04 – › Unifying themes and audience-driven meaning in stand-up 00:41:38 – › Joke structure as incomplete story and the fugue form 00:45:15 – › Jokes as distance, intimacy, and audience manipulation 00:48:47 – Transitions in and out of theme 00:52:39 – › American vs. British structural approaches to stand-up narrative 00:58:42 – › Catharsis mechanics and the retrospective reframe 01:05:51 – › Tension as meta-commentary on gender and unresolved pain 01:08:32 – BABY COBRA by Ali Wong 01:13:02 – › Club bits vs. connective tissue in long-form comedy structure 01:20:05 – › Reprise as structural skeleton: the trunk and branch model 01:29:26 – › Audience participation, the Betty Crocker principle, and earned subtext 01:34:39 – › Heightened dialogue and visual imagery conjured through language 01:37:57 – IT'S THE FIREWORKS TALKING by Daniel Kitson 01:42:47 – › What stand-up reveals about art that moves audiences 01:49:02 – › Language as colour grading and hyper-real specificity 01:55:30 – › Status shifts as a structural tool in comedy and drama 02:00:06 – › Character voice as persona and the narrator's ethos 02:04:45 – Key Learnings 02:07:41 – › Layering emotional groundwork for recontextualization 02:14:39 – Backmatter - Adapting SAVAGE 02:17:03 – › Performing tension for unseen audiences 02:22:53 – › Wide shots, private moments, and embodied scripts 02:24:35 – › Adapting the illusion of intimacy to screen 02:28:17 – › Narrator versus character and the writer's persona FILMS NANETTE (2017) — (w) Hannah Gadsby (d) Madeleine Parry, Jon Olb BABY COBRA (2016) — (w) Ali Wong (d) Jay Karas INSIDE (2021) — (w) Bo Burnham IT'S THE FIREWORKS TALKING (2007) — (w) Daniel Kitson LINKS Listen: Alice Fraser's Savage Part 1 Listen: Alice Fraser's Savage Part 2 Watch: Alice Fraser's Savage on Amazon Listen: Hannah Gadsby on the Working it Out podcast with Mike Birbiglia Listen: Daniel Kitson's It's The Fireworks Talking (2007) Sponsor: Script Up! Use promo code DZ10 to get 10% off ——— More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser. We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter. Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2021/dz-83/