E126: Data Center Economics and AI Energy Requirements w/ Patrick McKenzie and Azeem Azhar

Today on Upstream, we’re releasing Patrick MacKenzie's interview with Azeem Azhar which originally aired in February 2025 on Complex Systems. They discuss the economics and infrastructure of data centers, comparing historical infrastructure rollouts to modern AI-driven data center needs, and explore the implications of exponential power demands, including innovations like small modular nuclear reactors and geothermal energy.—📰Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse  —RECOMMENDED PODCASTS: 🎙️Complex Systems with Patrick McKenziePatrick McKenzie (@patio11) talks to experts who understand the complicated but not unknowable systems we rely on. You might be surprised at how quickly Patrick and his guests can put you in the top 1% of understanding for stock trading, tech hiring, and more.Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Mos4VE3figVXleHDqfXOH Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/complex-systems-with-patrick-mckenzie-patio11/id1753399812—SPONSORS:☁️ Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at oracle.com/turpentine 🎯 Say goodbye to the headaches of out-of-home advertising. AdQuick combines technology, OOH expertise, and data to enable efficient, seamless ad buying across the globe. Visit adquick.com to start reaching your customers in the real world.🕵️‍♂️ Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code UPSTREAM at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/upstream 💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/  and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.—LINKS:Exponential View: https://www.exponentialview.co/OpenAI Hails $500 Billion Stargate Plan: 'More Compute Leads to Better Models': https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-sp500-nasdaq-live-01-22-2025/card/openai-to-release-new-gpt-model-ai-agents-soon-MrUYupSuChEdJh07oIWp Byrne Hobart’s ‘Boom: Bubbles and the End of Stagnatiom’: https://www.amazon.com/Boom-Bubbles-Stagnation-Byrne-Hobart/dp/1953953476 Inside the World's Largest AI Supercluster xAI Colossus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf8EPSBZU7Y&t=142s Leopold Aschenbrenner’s SITUATIONAL AWARENESS: The Decade Ahead: https://situational-awareness.ai/ Dave Kasten’s The Essay Meta: https://davekasten.substack.com/p/welcome-to-the-essay-meta Travis Dauwalter’s Complex Systems episode: https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/episodes/electricity-grids-travis-dauwalter/ Austin Vernon (Fracking) Complex Systems: https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/episodes/fracking-austin-vernon/ Project InnerSpace Resources: https://projectinnerspace.org/resources/ Bloom Filters Explained: https://systemdesign.one/bloom-filters-explained/ —X / TWITTER:@azeem@patio11@eriktorenberg@turpentinemedia Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.