This podcast is a part of the Maisy Media Network, a community podcast for women by women. Hey, girl, hey, and thanks for dropping into the Switch, Pivot, or Quit podcast. Candid convo for the girl needing a lifestyle plot twist when she's deciding if it's time to switch, pivot, or quit. I'm Iana Angel, a former sports entertainment publicist in New York City, turned traditionally published author with Simon & Schuster, who quit my old life to write a book, live in London for a bit, and explore my dreams to find my happiness and fulfillment.
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I know that I have not been talking about COVID-19 and the coronavirus a whole lot because this podcast is evergreen. People are going to hear this information years from now, but I do want to acknowledge the time that we're in right now because so many people are having difficulties with navigating their careers. So I brought on two special guests to join me today. We're going to have hopefully just a really well-rounded conversation that will give you some things to think about, some resources, maybe some comfort in your time of confusion or uncertainty.
And so I'll go ahead and introduce them now. First, we have Dominique Fluker, and I'm going to let her introduce herself, and then we're going to meet Lauren McGoodwin. Hi, everyone. My name is Dominique Fluker.
I am the newest content marketing manager at Glassdoor, and I cover editorial stories for their B2C consumer blog. And I also am a senior contributor at Forbes Women, covering everything from diversity, inclusion, workplace trends, and women of color entrepreneurship. Awesome. Lauren, tell us who you are.
Hi, everyone. My name is Lauren McGoodwin. I'm the founder and CEO of Career Contessa. We're the largest online career resource built specifically for women.
And I think the other most exciting thing that's happening is I have a book coming out soon. It's called Power Moves, How Women Can Pivot, Reboot, and Build a Career Purpose. That is coming out in the middle of a pandemic on May 19th, but what are you going to do? Exactly.
But congratulations still, because I know you've been working really hard on this. Yeah, I know. This whole pandemic thing kind of got in the way of my plans among millions of other people, but yeah, it is what it is. Right, right, right.
Yes, like you said, we're all in the midst of it. It's curbing people's plans. It's messing up some of our ambitions, all these things. And that's why we just wanted to have a conversation today, so that hopefully what we're talking about and discussing and what you ladies have been presenting and bringing to the forefront those conversations on the different platforms that you're associated with, hopefully this can be helpful for people.
So let's start with career changes right now. Do you guys think that this is a time to consider, really considering career change? I mean, I guess for me, I look at this as sort of a unique opportunity as someone who also graduated college during a recession. I never felt like I ever got the chance to have this pause in life and think about what do I want to do?
Maybe that's a transition or a pivot. And I feel like this is sort of that unique time that maybe hopefully we'll never get again, but we all have right now, which is you can consider what you want to do next. Obviously, if you have the luxury of not needing to find a job right away, since everybody, a lot of companies are on a hiring freeze and not ready to move forward. This is a limbo land.
So like all the, I guess, like, I don't want to call them excuses, but all the reasons why people don't pivot careers or transition previously. Now it's like, well, you have the time to learn that new skill or to network or to do that thing, because previously I think the career transition was always looked at as like an uphill battle. So I look at this as like an amazing opportunity for a lot of people to take the time to make that change in their career. But I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's a great time to pause, reflect, and also assess your core skills and how those skills can help you create more transferable skills if you want to pivot. And then there's also a lot of part-time jobs and remote jobs that you can also take on, too, if you are not in a privileged position to stop and reflect. You can do your side project or your passion project as a part-time job, as long as you take the time to assess your core skills and your transferable skills.
Love that, ladies. So, Dominique, in your article, a recent article that you wrote, how to job search during the coronavirus pandemic, you said you can also leverage this time to stand out within your job search by being strategic, intentional, and nimble to land that position that you're passionate about. Talk to us a bit more about those ideas of being strategic, intentional, and nimble. Yeah, so from there I was thinking that, again, when you do have an opportunity to pause and reflect, you should be thinking about your transferable skills, your core skills, and what you really ultimately want to be doing.
So it's important for you to be strategic enough to go through your portfolio, see what really stands out to you, and try to make a pivot that way. Be nimble, and when you do try to get yourself back into the workforce that you've been furloughed or laid off, I believe companies are, especially at this time, looking for people who are willing to adapt, know how to adapt and be nimble, and take that adversity and leverage that. And what about the intentional aspects? Talk to us a little bit about that.
With intentionality, it's important to, during this time of transition, it's important to figure out what you really want to be doing in your career, what really excites you, what makes you passionate, and how you can go about actively doing that every day. I know for me, I definitely made a strong pivot from several pivots, actually, from PR to digital influencer marketing, and now to be a full-time writer, and that took me being strategic and intentional of how I wanted my life to look like. And even in these times of adversity, there's still a light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes it doesn't look as though it is, or it doesn't look how you envision it in your mind, but you can always be intentional on your next step.
So really taking inventory of your skills is important, taking inventory of what interests you, and then also looking at where you want to go and having a vision and plan to execute it. You mentioned making a pivot in your career, Dominique, and if I'm not mistaken, you made the announcement about your new role at Glassdoor, sort of in the midst of this pandemic, right? So tell us a little bit about that, because I think there's a lot of people, as Lauren mentioned, you know, there's some hiring freezes happening. What was the process like?
Were you already heavy in the midst of the interviewing process before everything hit with the coronavirus? Like, how did that sort of come together? Did it change your interviewing process as things got closer to maybe getting the position, but also everything ramping up with the virus? Right.
So during my interview process, it was as normal of a process as possible. But when it came to the final decision, it was something that I was already at home. So I think that was normal. What was different was I onboarded virtually.
That was really interesting, and it was my first time doing that ever. But Glassdoor has been amazing in the onboarding process. I mean, we've been leveraging Zoom quite a bit, but that was really my pivot moment, where I had to learn how to onboard virtually. I've never done that, but it actually went off seamless.
And with my announcement, I was strategic and announcing in a pandemic as well. I wanted my audience to know that, yes, I did transition. I made a career pivot, and I also went with a company that really, truly valued me, and even valued me in this crazy time, and believed in me to bring me on and to keep me on. So that was something that I was very proud about, and wanted people to know that although we're in this unstable time, and things can kind of, again, give me a disclaimer that I do have a privileged situation, but some things can go smoothly and as normal as possible.
Lauren, so once you're like Dominique and you ace the interview and get the job, you know, how do you make sure that you're killing it? The Career Contessa article that was recently published, Five Ways to Make Your Work Stand Out When Working Remotely, it gave us a rundown of tips. Can you share a few of those tips with us? Because there may be people who are in a similar situation.
Dominique, maybe they're finalizing a new position. It's all virtual. There's no other option right now. And they're thinking, how am I going to go in here and put my best foot forward in this environment that I'm completely unfamiliar with?
Number one, because it's a new company, but number two, it's a new way of working and delivering. Yeah, it's a really good question. And it's interesting. We've been asked a few times about, you know, these quote unquote onboarding processes that are virtual because people who are getting the onboarding are, I think, struggling a little bit because things are just so much easier when you're in person to kind of communicate.
But also if you are an employee and you're being onboarded, you don't actually have that built-in communication or relationship style that you have if you were an employee who, you know, was working in person and all of a sudden is now remote, right? So like even if you were working in person with your team, now you all are remote, you still have probably a good, you know, foundation of a relationship. You kind of know each other's styles because you've had all that interpersonal slash in-person, you know, working together. So this is a particularly unique situation.
And I think people, especially like Dominique, you can probably attest to this. It's like, they almost have to go above and beyond more than the person who has already had that foundation. So the first thing I would say in the top five tips is one, make sure everyone knows you. So whether you're working on an entirely remote team or you're, you know, meaning like you're part of a virtual company or you guys are all of a sudden remote, you want to make sure that everyone knows you from day one.
So that doesn't mean you need to introduce yourself to every employee, like at Glassdoor. Like somebody's not going to send a personal email to every single person, but she's going to want to make sure that people in that system are going to want to make sure that they introduce themselves and form relationships with team members who they're going to work alongside. So that might be setting up video chats. That might be helping you have maybe daily one-on-ones with people that you're working with on a regular basis.
I'm a big fan of this thing called a virtual water cooler. So outside of maybe having these regular meetings where you're talking to people and you're asking a lot of questions and listening, you can also do this thing called a virtual water cooler, which is on Slack or another communication tool. I just happen to be a fan of that where it's not always have, it doesn't always have to be as formal as like a scheduling of video chat. It can just be a way that you guys can talk consistently back and forth throughout the day.
There's also something really nice about knowing like you and another person are on Slack at the same time and you're kind of having this in real life conversation, even though you're typing it. So one, make sure everyone knows you, make sure that you are getting that quote unquote FaceTime and reaching out to people. So that's going to be really important. The other thing is that email is really your friend, whether you are or not.
Email, I know it sounds really old fashioned, but it's, you know, you want to use email to reach out to other team members to communicate changes and timelines to offer yourself for understaffed projects and to just generally over-communicate. And the reason why I say that is because, and it's really important when you are over-communicating to make it easy. So that means like using bullet points and bold text to communicate important dates and given timeline. And the reason why email is really important is that it creates this like digital paper trail of your work on like a video chat or a phone call or even Slack, which is, I think, kind of a little bit challenging to go back and kind of see like, again, the digital paper trail.
So don't forget to utilize email for the big stuff. Again, like here's what I worked on this week. We're big fans of what we call the no need to respond email. So every Monday and every Friday, you would send an email like this to your boss where you basically say, hey boss, here's on Monday, here are the things I'm working on this week.
Here are my top priorities. No need to respond unless you want to make any changes to this. And then on Friday, and again, that's like your paper trail. And then on Friday, you could send a similar email.
But of course, this is, here's what I worked on. Here's what I made progress on. Maybe here's where I ran into challenges. And that's kind of, again, no need to respond unless you want to make changes where you want to discuss this stuff.
I think that kind of lends itself into steps one and two. They're going to get to know you. You're going to be over communicating and you're going to have this paper trail. And I also really like it when people put the week or the dates in the subject line.
So that email is a great way to kind of show off to your boss too. Tip number three is you want to work quickly and efficiently. So I think especially with remote employees, it only takes one or two mistakes to get this reputation as being quote unquote sloppy. So if you're setting your own deadlines for certain projects, make sure they're realistic and that you factor in time for getting everything you need or giving everything a second look.
And the research shows that people are actually notoriously bad at being able to predict how long something's going to take them. So let's speak to the old fashioned rule, which is like under promise and over deliver. And then number four is pick up a slack where appropriate. So this is a great way to get your work noticed and to expand the type of work that gets you noticed.
As an added bonus, it's great to have this kind of helpful attitude and it's what future leaders are made of slash what your boss is looking for, especially at this time. And that's incredibly important if you know that people have been laid off or maybe people on your team have been laid off but someone else has been laid off and so everyone on your team is now getting stretched into other places. And the last tip, just to kind of keep this concise, is to be eager to learn on your own. I think this is a challenge when you're in as a remote employee is that you can't just turn to your coworker and be like, how do you figure out how to do this?
Yes, you can ask them over Slack or ask them to record a video of them doing something, but I would say really truly and I think everyone can kind of attest to this, like please do your best to try to learn how to do something on your own first before you just ask that person to do it because they have to stop what they're doing. And you want to show that you're eager to learn, that you're able to kind of learn new skills. And as a remote employee, this is the difference between, you know, stopping in the middle of a project to ask people for help versus figuring out the solution on your own. I think even if you have to ask people for help, which there's nothing wrong with that, it's like, I would like to see, here's what I tried first or here's how I tried to problem solve it first and here's where I'm running into, you know, an issue.
Can you help me with that? So, you know, last night, just be really eager to learn on your own. Yeah, you know what you make me think of when you say that too is just like, there's so many people who are now charged with being a teacher because they have kids as well as an employee and it's like, how frustrating would that be if someone is your colleague and there's something that they probably could have figured out on their own and they ask you and now you feel this obligation because you don't want to seem like a slacker yet you have three kids running around who you're supposed to be homeschooling. So it's like, so also maybe take into consideration what some of your colleagues' situation may be.
Just because everyone is working from home, it doesn't mean that everyone's work-from-home situation looks the same, right? Oh, completely. And the other thing is someone who doesn't even have kids here, like, I can't tell you how annoying it is to spend the time, you know, assigning something to somebody and giving them all the details that they need and basically the only thing you're leaving for them is to do a little creative problem solving or a little creativity and they hand in something that's like half-assed. Like, the best thing you can do to really impress people right now is become someone that they can trust to do the work well.
You know what I mean? Like, so, okay, if I assign this to Dominique, cool, I don't even have to think about it again because if she's got it, I know she's going to take this and, you know, get the touchdown with it sort of thing. It's like, I can't quarterback as a manager, I can't be the quarterback to a player who like never catches the ball or they catch it but they can never find the touchdown. I don't know why I'm using so many football and my play team is like, you know, that is really frustrating and I think right now you really want to create influence at work, like become a really valuable and trustworthy player.
Yeah, definitely. I agree with all those tips, especially because I am a new employee and this is only half a month of starting that glass door and I would agree because you really have to make sure that you're trustworthy enough and then also be creative and use your resources. Even if I'm not sure on how to do things, I will do the research and figure out, okay, well, what did the previous content marketing manager do or how can we be leveraging our other teams to make sure that the content that we're producing is engaging and also ties back to our bottom line. I think being a cross-functional team player who's an Italian one's football analogy is really great too because it also shows that you're thinking about the whole team, not just yourself and you can easily create influence in that way.
Are there any resources that either of you would recommend to people in this state of confusion about their employment right now? They're like thinking, I don't know whether maybe they haven't quite a lot of time been furloughed but work has slowed down and maybe they're just a little bit confused as to what's going to happen next or how things are going to you know pan out are there any resources that you all have found or that you can think of that can maybe give some type of comfort or some tools as to what people can be thinking about doing next maybe well i have to uh plug glass door because not only do we have open jobs and roles constantly we also have the resource lines such as how to apply for a part-time job how to apply for unemployment um virtual interviews um webinars and we also do have our own podcast and then our personalized salary calculator um and then we are making sure that we're constantly updating both consumers and employers um about the covid 19 crisis and how to fully arm yourself with not just getting another job talking about how to pivot correctly um how to look for another job during this crisis and how to take care of your um your self-being and how you can utilize wellness tips to make sure that you are comfortably transitioning during this time of chaos yeah i would just i mean you're making a really good point about the the mental piece of this or the emotional piece of this too um because i think ultimately what's happening is that i find this interesting because in a way we always live in uncertainty right like tomorrow is never promised you right like there's that whole thing and i find what's happening is that this uncertainty especially around careers it's just smacking people in the face but also now people don't feel like they have as much control like you know six weeks ago if you were looking for a job you probably felt like you had a really good chance of getting a job that you had the upper hand and now it's all of a sudden within a few weeks it feels like the power has flipped right now the power is back in the employer's hand uh there are only so many jobs and there are a lot of people that want them and again this just reminds me so much of the last recession we were in which i was a recent grad so i was at the bottom of the pecking order right so i find that yes it's it's important to um look for the resources but i would also say that like keep keep a big goal but don't forget to be optimistic about the future but also pessimistic about like the the reality so you know imagining yourself landing that new job is awesome but don't forget to also be like yeah but it might take weeks and i might have to take a part-time job in the process and you know i'm probably gonna get told no a few times and and i just and i'm gonna have to um find ways to make myself feel good in the process because it might be a while so like there's this whole managing your mental emotional and physical health in this too that you can't lose while you are on sites like last door or career testa and absorbing the resources right you still have to set goals and work toward those and i just i don't want to sugarcoat this for people and be like look you can set that goal and fantasize about you know landing your dream job the reality is that you also have to fantasize about all the negativities i had a whole chapter in my book about this about the myth of the dream job right and what researchers actually found is that when you don't basically when you don't imagine the false you know the pessimistic realities that come with real life as we all know you actually do yourself a complete disservice because this ends up being something where your expectations like ultimately emotions are kind of driven by your expectations and so you have um christine hasler uh actually coined this term which she calls an expectation hangover and so i just think it's also very important that as people kind of navigate this new terrain that they don't forget that they've got to kind of manage their own piece of this the mental emotional physical health of it because yes it's it is going to be rough out there um even with amazing resources you know all that stuff that's just one piece of pie yeah yeah that realistic portion i'm glad that you touched on that and just kept it like very candid about that because so many people feel bad for thinking the pessimistic side where we're trying to train ourselves to be optimistic optimistic optimistic but right now we're in a different reality so it's a lot easier to be super completely optimistic before because it felt like the possibilities are endless it's not that there are no possibilities now it's just that things look a little bit different and that's the new normal yeah and there's a huge pivot like again something that might have been a little easier six weeks ago and the jobs were coming to you and you were negotiating or you were getting ready to ask for a raise like you know it's just i think it's just so important to kind of do the thing where it's like we have to find a good balance and it doesn't mean that you can't set this major goal of um you know transitioning to a new career or getting into a new company i get asked a lot like what if you know i just got laid off and i didn't like that job anyway so that you have this cool opportunity but then the next question is i don't know what i want to do next and so um you can you know focus your time on okay what is a good company for me to land into or like target instead of targeting a job right and um it's just i think there's like a little bit of we're asking people to be more creative problem solvers right now than maybe they've had to but i think people need to look at this as like getting out of your comfort zone and kind of pivoting and kicking yourself in the butt is like going to be the best thing ever like this is going to create a whole new you know tool in your toolbox for you to be that creative problem solver if you don't live in this false reality which is you know i'm entitled to this dream job or this i'm victim this thing happened like we're all living in this and again life is always uncertain now it's just smacking you in the face a little bit more yeah yeah you know you just mentioned something that i feel like we probably need to discuss a little bit uh you were going to ask for a promotion right um so there are some people who i'm sure were going to ask for a promotion and maybe they're still thinking about asking for a promotion because this time of uncertainty maybe they really stepped up in their role do you guys think that now is the time to have that conversation and i'm not saying it if you're a person who just barely meeting the minimum requirements like what if you're a person who's been going above and beyond consistently even prior to this and now you've taken on even more is now the time to ask or should you wait a little bit and kind of see how things start to net out a bit more over the past year i've developed a new appreciation for cooking my own meals i 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code spq at checkout for 35 off your order sunbasket.com slash spq and enter promo code spq i mean for me i feel like i would wait it out a little bit i think timing is everything for a lot of stuff in life uh definitely in the career space you know like you and what i tell people i'm like look you don't want your message to get lost right you don't want to not get what you want you ultimately want to get what you want um if you were having discussions with your boss like pretty heavily but seriously um about the promotion and the salary increase you know maybe it's a good idea to say ask your boss like look i know what has changed in the last few weeks um i know we were deep talked about that promotion and the salary increase um what you know maybe you ask something like fairly open-ended where you just say you know how would you like to move forward on that and he might tell you like you know hey it's not a good time let's pick this up in june or july or something like that and you know you can say amazing i'll put a time on our calendar for us to touch base like i don't think you want to forget about it and i don't think you should necessarily ignore it um because i think it will just be harder to bring it up later but i do think the reality is like unless you're working for a company that's doing incredibly well right now like if your company's having layouts if they're having hiring phases i think a better thing to do right now is to go to your boss and be like what is the thing that i can do or to add value to this organization today what is going to save our company like be asking the questions that are top of mind for them because then like you're on when you go back to ask for that promotion and raise one you might be able to get a bigger raise or two you might be able to get a better promotion because you stepped up in the time of need so i i mean i just i think people have to think about what is top of mind for their manager and unless you're at a company like zoom or microsoft or amazon or something like that like i and even if you are i just feel like the timing of that is a bit tone deaf to hey that's not our biggest priority right now our biggest priority is keeping up with the demand because you know zoom just became one of the popular tools right like i would just go for what you know is important to them also doesn't mean like slack off on documenting or keeping your receipts yeah accomplishments or your contributions to a large project or even the small things where you're um like lauren saying how you need to be a reliable um source for for any type of project you're being the go-to person can really help you take the next step and advance your career right now yeah yeah do you guys have any tips on how people can try to handle or approach the emotion of fear right now yes i would say try to take it day by day i know that might sound simple but really it's about managing your emotions feeling emotions when it comes and not putting a cap on that and just working through them when they do come and also have open communication with your colleagues and even manager if you need to step away from your computer or process things on a group level i think that also builds community and college trust and empathy and it will allow for you to feel easier um to share your emotions in that way in the workplace yeah i think for me um and i'm sure there's gonna be some people that disagree with this because i know there's a lot of stuff on instagram being like you don't have to be productive at this time i i manage my fear and like i think for me like kind of processing my emotions comes from like micro accomplishments um kind of like the little goals in life so like i still think too if for processing my fear at least i would still create some structure in my day so even if i've been laid off and i'm afraid about what's gonna happen next binging on netflix all day isn't gonna get me closer so i would set some micro goals and find some ways that you can have those small wins in the day it could be just that you made lunch today or maybe you set a goal like this week i want to spend no more than this much this money on food um or i'm gonna get creative and find some you know uh recipes on pinterest like i'm a person where like for me i like to be able to have something where i can start and stop it and there's like an accomplishment to it so like i've recently gotten into gardening so it helps me like get away from a screen and go outside and like i don't know like pull out all the weeds and then i see them all in this bucket and i'm like hey i got something done today you know so i know that sounds like i'm lucky because i have an outdoor space but like it could be reorganizing your closet like what is what is that quick win even if it's just 10 minutes of your day that can help you kind of get that sense of accomplishment there's also this thing called progress principle it's a book and these researchers literally found that daily wins uh creates forward momentum and that momentum helps you kind of engage more in your career and your life and um marie forleo has this amazing quote called clarity comes from engagement and i do i think these are all like emotional processing tools right and you'll find the one that works for you some people like to knit some people like adult coloring books puzzles whatever it is that you can get that sense of accomplishment i think is also going to be really helpful at this time yeah yeah take it back off to lauren i think um having a set schedule would help to get those small wins like waking up in the morning saying okay this is when i'm going to eat breakfast this is when i'm going to do my morning stretches or yoga and then i'm going to apply for some jobs this day or a spruce of my resume or my online portfolio um just curating your own personalized schedule even if you aren't working it's going to be a huge help to uh get those small wins you know it's funny because you just said like you know spruce up my resume and i think that there's some people who are in a space of um comfort right now because they know that their job is secure then there's a lot of people who thought that their job was secure but now they're being furloughed and they've never been furloughed before they don't really know what that looks like um what what should people be maybe considering or thinking about even if they're in a position where they think i'm good my job still exists and i'm getting paid right now and i have not been furloughed so i'm all good what are some things that you would um want to put out there that they should be thinking about and considering or maybe are there things that they should be looking um looking at as maybe like a sign you know i'm not trying to say we're looking for negative signs but like you ladies have been around and maybe there's things that people are oblivious to but it's happening around you and it's like wait if that's happening you might want to be prepared for what's coming next you know really i mean i'll go back to spruce up your resume i think if you're unemployed or if you're employed you should always be tweaking and updating your resume um to reflect what you've done so far and what you would like to do moving forward and also get into your online profiles and kind of curate your um plan presence and your own personal narrative what does this look like for you during this time of transition um and even if you do have a job you should constantly be updating your online profiles and your website i always make a habit each quarter to document all the all my work accomplishments or um projects that i've been involved in in taking screenshots and uploading to my online portfolio which doubles down as my blogging website um i think you should always at least try to um better your professional toolkit by taking online courses um right now it's a really great time to do so i know of course there has a lot of free online courses that you could sign up for from that way you can um both your skills there and also your managers always love to hear and see you'll find new skills to your um your job toolkit in your role um and i think you should possibly be networking i say i really don't like the word networking but it's important to build and cultivate strong professional relationships so if you like the word networking great but um reach out to people who you look up to who you aspire to be or kind of have that professional or aligned with that their profession and um try to cultivate a strong inauthentic relationship with them in case there are some opportunities that might come about from that relationship as well yeah and i would just add some signs that things might not be going well again not really even like we're trying to be real yeah we want to be real so what industry are you in are you in travel hospitality uh you know what think about your industry do a little research um the other thing if you have clients research what's happening in their industry so if you work in pr and you represent a bunch of restaurants guess what that's not good for your business you know so um kind of connect the link so start with your own company um and then like its industry and how you guys make money where does your and this is really funny because actually when you talk to a lot of people how does your company make money there's so many people who don't know the answer to that i mean maybe you're working in a small company yes but like when you work for a massive company do you know how they make money do you know where their sales are coming from who are their big clients these are all good questions to start with and it's kind of like look you're going on a little scavenger hunt you're going to try to figure out how does your company make money and how do the people who pay your company how do they make money right because this is the thing about the coronavirus that is really unique is that almost nobody is untouched right like everybody is getting hammered in some way shape or form and part of this is it is a domino effect you know your company relies on these people to buy from them and those people rely on that person and that person and that person so the reality is that it's not that are you getting hit or not the answer is probably yes you are the question is how big the hit and how long is that hit gonna happen right um airlines they're gonna be hit for a very long time right um restaurants maybe if they can get back open you know sooner rather than later even with fewer people or you know they've got takeout or something like that you know they're it's just sort of you've got to pay attention to what's happening in the news and you also have to pay attention to where the revenue is coming in for you i mean small business owners know this very very well because it's like they either have the money in the bank or they don't i mean exactly usually where that money is coming from so i would also say if you do that and you're like oh that's not good like there's some you know uh companies that are that are clients are not doing well i would the first thing i would do is i would say start saving your dollars and make sure you've got that emergency fund um in addition to everything that dominates your career it's also like you'll have a longer runway you'll be less stressed if you've got some money in the bank and that means start cutting back on the non-essentials right now you know that shopping's free you thought about going on you know maybe don't um maybe return some of the stuff cancel some of the subscriptions you really but truly don't need um make a budget um go through and cut things and i think that is also something that everyone could be considering right now even if they feel like they're safe and their job isn't going anywhere yes i totally agree with that um one of the silver linings if you're still working um is really saving most of your paycheck i think you should definitely be doing that during this time if you're still getting a body paycheck or freelance work you should really hold most of that money and put it into a savings account so you can feel like you have that padding dominique i want you to share a few tips from your glassware article for making that best impression during a fully virtual interview process so i worked with our recruiting team here at glassware to help um some potential candidates ace their virtual interview and number one you should definitely position yourself in a well-lit quiet and clean space i think that's really important especially as we're all um working from home and remote the employer and the interviewer will get an inside intimate view of uh not only a space but really how you are as a person how you make up that space how you get your personal space and it's really different from an in-person interview where they're just looking at how you put yourself together how respectful you are um in your overall mannerisms this time they're getting a first eye view of your actual living space so just as you want to present yourself the best way possible you should present your home in that way or if you're um living with roommates or your family members do give them a heads up beforehand and say let's all collectively tidy up our space and i need to find a designated area to um host this interview um number two definitely test your technology beforehand having spotty wi-fi or um not having your zoom or um your google hangouts prepared beforehand could give off the wrong impression to uh your future employer so you definitely need to be sure to double check your wi-fi connection camera audio all of that um to confirm that they're working without a hitch um also being technology technology savvy is a coveted skill that employers are looking for um again this goes back to Lauren's point um as you need to be as autonomous as possible make sure that you know what you're doing on the technology side because these are also transferable skills that can help you um really succeed and excel in your future roles um prepare thoroughly just like any other in-person interview you should be ready to speak in depth about why you want to join the organization what excites you about the role specifically and ways to enhance the role i think it's super important that not only you um kind of underscore why you would be a good fit for the company or this role but bring some new ideas to the table so they can see that off the bat that you're about you at and that you will um not only do what's needed and expected but also go the extra mile um and then i love doing this it's like you know when you go to an interview it can definitely be darned but one way to kind of combat that anxiety is to make the interview a two-way street so just as much as you want the role um in showing them you should also be interviewing your interviewers to see if you're actually right for this company in the role itself so take some time to compile your interview questions for each of your interviewers be authentically yourself so although and this is something that Lauren and I were talking earlier in this podcast let your personality shine through sometimes it's hard to really um authentically connect with colleagues or your manager through zoom but there are ways that you can kind of break that threshold and barrier um and that is trying to uh connect with your interviewer trying to see if they are connecting with you by analyzing their soft skills like body language and personal skills and um communication to see what their personality traits are as well and you definitely need to be on the flip side you definitely need to be utilizing your soft skills like body language um in the uh the communication bit to convey your confidence and personality I know that there's so many people like wrecking their brains right now thinking I've never gone through a virtual process before so I don't even know how to approach it so hopefully that gives me some comfort this is one of my last questions what types of skills do you ladies think will be in high demand post pandemic well I think writing is always um I might be biased I think always a great skill right now we're really seeing um this COVID-19 era kind of sweep um the the journalism rooms and in news cycles um but having a strong writer in your team and using that in your arsenal is great because it can kind of be um um swift with the times nimble enough to um alter your messaging points to make sure they're also being factual number one but to um giving a level of empathy to those who are really struggling with this crisis um problem solving skills resourcefulness nimbleness and a determination to rise um above any adversity is also what employers are looking for um how can going back to Lauren's point how can you solve a problem or issue or dissected enough to um for your company client whoever to where they're not necessarily holding your hand through the process yeah I would agree with all of those um I think also there are going to be companies after this um maybe stay remote or virtual um so really being able to showcase how you're able to manage and lead a team and collaboration through virtual tools so having a lot of staffiness with virtual technology um I think it's important it's interesting because I think during these times everyone always will talk about like tech skills tech skills tech skills it's like yeah coding and design and all that's important but um what Dominique is saying about like you know nimbleness resourcefulness those were important before it's kind of like uncertainty you had uncertainty before but things are just hitting people in the face a lot more I think you're going to have to truly show not just tell um future employers what you're capable of so that means during this time consider you know creating your own online portfolio site consider starting um you know blogging about something to show off your writing skills like I just think it's going to become one of those things where especially with virtual interviews and that kind of stuff I think the show don't tell will become even more important to employers absolutely ladies this has been such a great conversation I appreciate both of you so much um I think that this is going to be helpful for a lot of people and that's exactly what we set out to do before we go can you just let everyone know your Instagram handles so that they can potentially be in touch with you or just check out some of the new articles information that you guys have coming up yeah so you can find me everywhere on at career contessa um any anywhere if you find career contessa it's us um and then I don't have an Instagram handle for my book but if you go on Amazon you check in power moves more than a good one you'll find it there you can find me at work it's felt with a q underscore downmeek with two i's on Instagram and my blog my personal blog is work.meek as well awesome thank you so much ladies and you guys as always be good you