E279 - Creating A Career Development Plan with Tanika Cabral

This is Amazing Media Production. During the Switch, Pivot, or Quit Chats, we talk to women who have successfully navigated through some of the plot twist years of life and are eager to share their stories and what they've learned in the hopes of inspiring, teaching, or making even the slightest impact by candidly owning their truth. Hey girl, hey, and thanks for dropping in to the Switch, Pivot, or Quit podcast. Candid convo for the girl needing a lifestyle plot twist when she's deciding if it's time to switch, pivot, or quit.

I'm Liana Angel, a former sports entertainment publicist in New York City. Her traditionally published author was Simon & Schuster, who quit my old life to write a book, live in London for a bit, and explore my dreams to find my happiness and fulfillment. I'm here to help encourage and guide you through your plot twist years as your chief encourager and host of this podcast, Switch, Pivot, or Quit. Our community is continuously growing, so welcome to all the new listeners, and thank you all for those who are returning.

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On today's episode, we are going to get into our Cracking Corporate Series, and we will be chatting with Tanika Cabral, who is a Vice President of New Business and Partnership Sales, as well as Chief of Staff for the Food Service and On-Premise Office of the President at the Coca-Cola Company. But please note that since this interview, she has moved into this new role, and she is constantly advancing in her career, which is one of the reasons that we can learn a ton from Tanika. Her 20-year tenure in the Coca-Cola system spans across customer operations, commercialization, strategy, and marketing. Delivering results through the development of high-performing teams, collaborative business building, strategy development, and change management have been the catalyst behind Tanika's career.

As a passionate advocate for women in business, Tanika served as the global president of Women's Link, the company's 6,000-member business resource group focused on the professional development of women across 70 countries. Tanika was also the recipient of the YWCA Corporate Women of Achievement Award for her work done to uplift women and girls. Continuing her work in the community, Tanika is now president of the Executive Council for the Harvard Debate Council Diversity Project, a pipeline program that recruits, trains, and feeds minority youth into the Harvard Debate Council's summer residential program. Get ready for this conversation with Tanika because she has so much to share with us.

Get your pen out. Get your pad ready. Let's get into it. Tanika, welcome to the show.

I am so happy to be having this conversation with you because you are a person that is full of insight and information, so I can't wait. How are you? I am doing well. I have been looking forward to this.

I'm excited. I'm pumped. I love it. So let's get started with you sharing a bit about your background and how you got into your team.

So, you know, I'm vice president of global marketing with the Coca-Cola company, and I've actually been with the Coca-Cola system for over 20 years, and it's crazy for me to even say that because it does not feel like 20 years because I've had a lot of fun. But in my role, I lead a team of amazing marketers that are responsible for commercial strategies that are just going to sort of maximize profitable growth for our company and for our customers. And I've been in marketing for some time now, maybe about, I would say, nine years. And I actually started an operation, so I had to cross-function in order to get into marketing, but it's where I knew I needed to be.

Talk a little bit about the cross-functioning and switching over into another department. We've had people share concerns before, like, you know, what if I'm starting in a support role and I really know that my skill set is larger than that, but I want an opportunity to be able to share that or go into a different department. Talk to us about how you went about sort of making those changes. Sure.

And, you know, I can be long-winded, but I'm going to try to make this story short, but this really is one of my favorite stories to share. I actually started right out of college with the Coca-Cola company as a customer service rep. And so if you have ever looked on the side of a can or bottle and saw a toll-free number, which is 1-800-GET-COCA, you call that number, you would get me. And so on the other line, I could answer any question about the Coca-Cola company, from history to stock prices to financial information, ingredients, you name it.

But it was below entry level. I mean, seriously, it was below entry level. It was one of the lower grades in the company. And so I started out in that role, and I just knew that I wanted to do more.

That's not what I wanted to be doing while also paying on student loans, and so I did that for about eight months, and started to move through our customer operations department from analyst to project manager to team manager to group manager. I mean, I had an incredible career, but while in operations, I realized that I really wasn't passionate about what I was doing. I did it really well, but I knew I wanted to be a marketing because I've always been fascinated with insights and really taking those insights and transforming them into something actionable. And I mean, really, it's what I said, I was advertising and public relations and such.

And so I had to be really deliberate because operations is far from marketing. I mean, it's a far cry from marketing. And so I knew that I had to be in the spaces and places where our marketing professionals within the system were every single day. And guess what?

In operations, I wasn't even at the headquarters building. And so I created a development plan. It was a very actionable development plan. It had all of the things that I needed to do in order to get me into the space.

And understand what I'm saying here. Get me into the spaces where I could be with our marketing leaders. It wasn't even about getting the job as much as it was first networking and connecting. And so I shared that development plan with my manager.

I shared it with my manager's manager. And I can remember this many years ago over Thanksgiving, my boss called me and she said, Tanika, you know, I don't want to lose you. But there's this role. And I mean, it is almost identical to what you have in your development plan.

And I think you should look at it. And it was a project manager in our collaboration center where our marketers brought our customers marketing professionals who sort of collaborate on business building things, you name it, and they collaborated on it. And I thought, oh, my goodness, this could be it. And so I did that job for 18 months.

And again, I was a project manager. I was supporting the marketing and sales function, but I wasn't in marketing or sales. But one Friday, I was helping one of our marketing leaders with a pitch. And it just wasn't going well.

And I said, you know what, we need more practice to really hone this and make it what we know it should be. And she said, well, this pitch is on Monday. And I said, well, that means we have to come on a Saturday. She said, what?

I said, yes, we do. And so we came in on that Saturday and we worked together one-on-one. Here's the thing. We didn't get the business, but she remembered that.

And about six months later, she called me and she said, Tanika, I don't even know if you want to do this, but we have a marketing commercialization manager role within my organization. Would you even be interested? Now, on the other side of that phone, I'm jumping up and down because this is exactly why I took that job, right? And so that was actually my introduction into marketing.

And what I had in my development plan, the strategies and the tactics were exactly what I needed to do in order to make the right connections to get into marketing. So that's actually how I crossed over from operations into marketing. And I made that story long, even though I said I wouldn't, but I did. And I'm sorry.

No, we love this. It's a really big picture. You know, there's so many people who glaze over things and just kind of gloss over their trajectory and how it happened, but you're still left with all these questions. But by you giving even those examples, you were able to stand out to your colleague because you said, let's go above and beyond.

Those are the kinds of things that you need to know as a listener, you know, that you should be aware of and doing this. People are paying attention and they're watching. And they are. They are.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's all about self-awareness, Ayana. I mean, really, self-awareness is key because in order to know where you're going, you absolutely have to know what you're good at and you have to know what your gaps are.

And in terms of the position that you're looking to move into, you've got to know what they're looking for in order to move into that position. And so for marketing, I knew that it was about insight. I knew that it was about understanding the consumer in a very deep way. I knew it was about disrupting that consumer pathway.

And so I wanted to make sure I had the skill, not necessarily the experiences because I couldn't get them in operations, but at least the skills, the transferable skills that would help me in that way. And so the discovery work that I did was connecting with people in marketing just to shadow them and understand what they did every single day to understand the challenges of the job. It's important to know the good, the bad, and the ugly. And for me, I'm really good at some things, but here's the thing.

Quite frankly, there's some things that I am not good at, and I don't know exactly what those things are. And so on my development plan, it was really about finding opportunities to learn, to become familiar with the space that I wanted to move into, but then those hard skills, like creating a marketing plan and a strategy. Certainly, I had studied those things in college, but to really apply those things in a work environment, I looked for developmental assignments that would allow me to bring those skills in, and then actionable and measurable and time-bound goals. And so I knew that, for example, if there was a class that I had to take, I put a date because I'm not the most organized person, so to keep myself on track, I put dates, and I had accountability partners, and I would check things off the list, and I'm going to tell you, every time I checked off that list, I felt better about myself.

It was momentum that I built. So a development plan has to be a living, breathing document, and the people that are around you should know what's in that document. They should be giving you feedback along the way, and you should be taking that feedback into the gift. That's important.

Take it in at the gift. And after a while, you'll get that call, like I did when my manager said, you know what? You've been talking about your development plan in our one-on-one sessions. I'm so familiar with it that I know that this job is probably the job that you've been waiting for.

What do you think of the advice to treat your manager as a coach? A good coach can ask you questions that bring out the best in you, and so if you have that in a manager, absolutely use it, but if you don't, that's okay, too. You have to just go out and find the coach, but I'll tell you, in my career, I've always found it incredibly important to manage my manager, and I do that very well. Okay, let's talk about that.

You know, it's funny because oftentimes, as direct reports, we are looking to be managed by our managers because that's what they're supposed to do, right? But as associates, as direct reports, we should be managing our manager, and what I mean by that is you really need to know your manager well. You need to know what makes your manager tick. You need to know what makes your manager frustrated, anxious, annoyed, happy, sad, and when you see those things coming to life, let's say, in a meeting, your manager may blink a certain way or twitch a certain way, and you know, uh-oh, there's something happening here, and I need to manage it, and I'll give you an example.

I am right-brained. I am very creative. I am whimsical. I'm not incredibly organized.

My manager, I've had a manager, incredibly organized, buttoned up, needs to know the plan, needs to know in advance. I work at the last minute, and I thrive in that way. He doesn't, and so in terms of managing my manager, I have to make sure my work style doesn't get in the way of him feeling like, okay, we have a plan. We know what needs to be done, and so with my manager, I plan more.

With my manager, I know that he needs updates more regularly than I ever would, and so I make sure he has what he needs so that he's not anxious, so that he knows the work is getting done, and so that's what I mean by managing your manager. It's really customizing the way you work with a person based on what resonates with him, and when you do that, you make your manager's life easier. Everything else is easier. Right, right.

Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. You make me think of what I've heard people say before in terms of the conversation about micromanagers, and sometimes that a reason that a manager could be micromanaging you is because they don't trust you. What are your thoughts about that space of micromanaging, especially because it shows up so much, and it's a large reason as to why a lot of people leave companies?

Sure, because they don't leave companies right, they leave the manager, and that's absolutely true. You know, micromanagement is a funny thing because you do have managers that are all over you and all in your business because they have trust issues, but then you genuinely have managers who are just incredibly organized and buttoned up and they need a plan and they need to know what's going on in order to feel comfortable. I'm not that way, but I know that there are managers who are that way, but what I've found with managers who are micromanagers just because they over-locate on planning, I just make sure I give them what they need. They want updates.

They want to know what's going on. They want to make sure that the assignments are getting completed, and when I do that proactively versus someone coming to me saying, I need this, did you do this, which I don't like, and that's very frustrating. But when I do it proactively, when I do it proactively and I sort of feed that beast, I feel much better about the work environment. Now, the flip side of that, Ayana, is someone who truly is a micromanager, and I will tell you that I like to address things head on.

I don't like to beat around the bush. It's gotten me in trouble, but for the most part it was. So I will have that conversation with the manager, and I will say, you know what, it feels a little like I'm getting more questions from you. You're wanting more updates from me.

Is there a reason for that? Is there something that you need that I'm not giving because we can make some adjustments? And sometimes the manager doesn't even realize it. And she says, oh, well, I'm sorry.

I didn't realize I was doing that. Or the manager may say, you know what, I'm glad you asked because I do need a little more. I'm not sure where we are with this project. And if you give me a few more updates, I think that will help.

It's important to have the conversation. Speaking of the conversations, how have you learned to handle or approach difficult conversations? Obviously, you have a long history within the Coca-Cola company, but just corporate career, period. I know you've had some times where you've had to have some difficult conversations, depending on either side of it.

But that's intimidating for a lot of people, no matter what your position is. How have you learned to sort of handle those difficult conversations or approach those conversations in a way that feels good for you? Oh, man. I wish I had other people on the line so they could answer the question for me because you would get an earful.

Let me take a step back. I'm from Brooklyn. I'm from Brooklyn. I'm the oldest child.

I am a Leo. I'm a Leo. Okay, we have so much in common. I'm just not from Brooklyn.

So if you're the oldest child and you're a Leo, you know that we can't help it. Like we have serious conversations. In fact, we thrive on those conversations. And so they're very easy for me.

I've actually had to tone things down a bit. But I will tell you, if you are someone who you're just not comfortable with serious conversations, you shy away from confrontation, I will tell you that there's a book that I've read. And actually, there was a workshop that accompanied that book that I really appreciated. And it was called Sears Conversations.

And so anyone listening to this podcast that sort of struggles with confrontation, with addressing things directly, that book is incredible because it helps you with tactics that make it a bit more comfortable for you. And it all comes down to adjusting your communication to meet the needs of the person that you were talking to. Because some people, like me, want to direct. Just tell me what I need to do.

Tell me what the issue is. Other people, you've got to sort of ease into it. They need to understand the why first. And then you may hit the list.

And here's what you did that really didn't serve the team well. But you have to do a bit more before you get to that conversation. So I would say practice it. I would say read serious conversations.

I would say build the muscle. It doesn't feel good in the beginning. But if you practice, you'll get better at it. But yeah, train yourself to do it.

Yeah, that's what you've got to do with a lot of things. So that makes sense. Difficult conversations may not be challenging for you. But was it challenging to find your voice in your career?

And when did you feel like you found your voice? Yeah, you know, I was the first in my family to go to college. Didn't know anything about corporate America. Certainly, there are many unwritten rules.

And I was completely ignorant to them all. And coming into corporate America, I, you know, it took me a while to sort of find my place. And find... my way and show up as my authentic self to be quite honest early in my career you know i kind of showed up as what i thought people needed me to be right um my voice was sort of shaped to um what i thought would resonate with the people in the room but not in the most authentic way and um just maybe a few years into my career i thought you know what i can be a better me than anybody else right so i've got to start practicing this and i'll tell you a quick story um and i think you may have heard this in a session that we were in together in the past but i went for a role and at this time i was really coming into my own and it was in 2003 i'm dating myself but this is 2003 and i landed a job that so many thoughts that i wouldn't get and at the time i was wearing i'm african-american i was wearing my hair natural and if you know anything about 2003 there were no good products there was nothing there was nothing and my afro suffered because and so i landed this role and the hiring manager called me in and she said we are so excited we think that you're going to be incredible in this role but there is one thing i want to talk to you about and i said why did she say your hair and i said my hair and she said your hair and i said what about my hair and she's like i think that maybe if you straightened it you know you would be taken seriously and to understand that she was also african-american and i will tell you this before the listeners say oh my goodness that is that was horrible of her she was really trying to help me she was she was trying to help me she you know she she wasn't sure that this new audience that didn't look like me would be receptive you know to my look so i had to make a decision i had to make a decision um and my decision was to keep my misshapen afro and so i kept it um for a few reasons the first was if i had to straighten my hair what did that mean for the person coming behind me right if a misshapen afro was a new thing that people needed to get used to well you know what i was going to do it so that someone else could come behind me and wear that fro or the brace right um but doing that just gave me even more confidence and going back to your question about showing up um as as the person that you truly are that was a time in my career where i felt so empowered to walk in and be me and be comfortable with being me and in this phase of business where innovation is cheap right innovation is what will separate some companies from others in order to truly innovate you need diversity you need diversity of thought you need diverse experiences you need diverse people and i realized that that is my edge i'm different my background is different um the way i was raised is different the school that i went to um and leaving a predominantly african-american environment and going to a predominantly white institution that experience um was different and so all of those things helped me bring a different perspective to the table and knowing that that's my edge allows me to show up and be okay with my big damn earrings in the boardroom i love that i love that today's episode is brought to you by clorox when it counts trust clorox the same way that we trust essential workers to provide the care that they give to us our families trust us to give them a safe and protected home that's why i trust clorox regular bleach now what you can do is mix one third of a cup of clorox regular clorox bleach with one gallon of water and when you use it as directed on hard non-porous surfaces it kills 99.9 percent of germs and bacteria on a variety of different non-porous surfaces so from kitchen floors to countertops to bathrooms and bathtubs of course laundry wipes all those things in between i know i can count on clorox disinfecting products to give me and my family the people that i love the people that i surround myself with all the time the best because that's what we deserve so i regularly find myself wiping down everything from doorknobs to even the mic that i'm using right now my computer my laptop like i touch the keyboard regularly so i'm always disinfecting and wiping because i don't want to cross contaminate anything and i think right now is just a time for us to be really aware of those things that maybe we weren't so concerned with before and my go-to is definitely good old clorox so when it counts trust clorox so when did you feel ready to be a leader and to lead with it and when you felt ready were you actually ready like in hindsight were you actually ready and did that opportunity present itself yeah yeah so i remember this i was in a project manager role and i was going into a team manager role i thought that i was ready i mean i spent my entire childhood as a brooklyn born older child leo bossing everybody around so why not have a team of people to lead right because that's what management is and i'm kidding that's exactly not what management is but i thought i was ready and i went from an individual contributor role to having about 10 people on my team it was a pretty big team here's the thing the company invested in me i mean i remember going to a week-long retreat where they gave the best training possible it was an immersive training opportunity to become the best leader you could be and so i certainly had the tools and i had the resources but it took time it took time i stumbled along the way my directness that i talked about earlier got in the way because everyone didn't receive it the way i thought they were and should and so in the beginning i stumbled and i learned but i've always been receptive to feedback even when that feedback was painful and so i listened i listened to my team i listened to my peers i looked at leaders that i admired and thought am i doing that or am i doing what this manager over here is doing which is certainly driving results for leaving their bodies along the way and so it took some time for me to holistically take the training the resources the tools and combine that with the everyday on the job training and learning experiences to become a leader that i am today and i will say in a very humble way i'm known as a really strong people leader in our system and people who have been on my team at one point or another continue to come to me and seek advice and sort of reflect on some of the things that they experience with me as a leader but it's because of them that i became a good leader they helped train me they were in essence managing me as their manager right yeah yeah what's one thing that you learned in terms of what you can do to be an effective manager and to be that manager and that leader that people continuously look to whether they're on your team or not anymore or not yeah yeah yeah have you ever heard of the five love languages yeah i love that book and i read it when i was in a relationship some years ago and i just love that approach because it's loving the person not based on how you love or the way that you want to love but really the way that you need to love that person that person individually well here's the thing this may sound corny and crazy but that's the same way i manage so what is someone's appreciation language what is someone's motivation language in the workplace because what you do for employee a doesn't work for employee b and so the way that i am as a manager is i try to understand the needs the motivations of each person on my team and i manage to that person's needs i manage to that person's strengths i manage to that person's developmental opportunities it certainly isn't cookie cutter and i try as hard as i can with a lot of effort and being intentional to really bring out the best in each person based on who they are as individuals so that's the type of manager that i am i try to create sort of like the optimal work environment for the team and i make sure they're empowered and motivated to deliver results first before i focus on the business results understand that for a minute rather than start with here's what the business needs i start with what do the people need because i know that if the people are taking care of they will take care of the business oh that's a gem right there if the people are taking care of they will take care of the business they ask that yes you briefly mentioned being able to take that feedback have a hard time taking it and we feel attacked sometimes even if the person is not trying to attack you sometimes we just take things so personal and it just gets to us do you have any advice for those of us who are trying to get ahead in corporate and in life and we might be those people who just take things a little too personal oh yeah oh yeah it is a muscle to build i will tell you i actually a few months ago in partnership with my manager facilitated a session within our organization on feedback on how to accept feedback and we went through some of the more behavioral aspects of why people are afraid of feedback and you get that question we've all gotten it hey tamika can you come into the office i'd like to give you some feedback and before you even know what it is right your neck gets hot you start sweating a bit and you go in if you're like me here for brooklyn with your hands up no you don't do that but you go in anxious that question alone the question alone um gets you a bit stressed out because what's on the other side of that could be painful but i will tell you that there is no way to grow accustomed to it other than accepting it by just listening oftentimes when we're getting feedback the first thing you want to do is defend our position yeah and i would say that the first thing you should do is just consult a pillow so when someone says hey i want to give you some feedback and they share some things with you and maybe those things are constructive pieces of feedback things that you should do differently maybe they're trying to redirect you and before you say anything you say thank you i appreciate that if you would just give me some time to process it and i'll come back to you is that okay and when they say yes you just step away because then you can manage your emotions right you can process what they share you can reconcile that against what your experience is and then with some time you may say gosh you know what that wasn't my perspective but after hearing what they shared there's some truth to that and there's times when i've gone back and i said you know what thank you for that feedback that wasn't how i looked at it but after hearing that from you i realized that there are some things that i could have done differently so based on that feedback here's what you can expect from me in the future right so feedback is truly a gift that you've got to build that muscle and you've got to be comfortable with the uncomfortable and like i said make sure you step away from the situation before you are prompted to defend come back the next day and have a conversation about it and really understand that when someone gives you feedback it's an opportunity to grow when you're not getting feedback that's when you should be concerned that's really when you should be concerned it sounds like reframing to how you think about it because giving that feedback could be thought of as care almost like when you're caring about you they're trying to right direction and trying to steer you right you know that you won't make huge mistakes or get in trouble or anything bad won't happen so it sounds like if we reframe it and look at feedback similarly it could be more like something that you look forward to oh my gosh you just hit the nail on the head when you get to the point where you don't see feedback as an attack you welcome it you welcome it you want to receive the feedback because you've built that muscle and it's not about being defensive it truly is about taking in what someone says considering it maybe applying some of it and the rest you can set aside and that's the thing that you should know as well you'll get feedback and it doesn't mean it's all true it doesn't mean that you have to take all of it but you can decide you can decide but in all cases don't be defensive it's not going to serve you well and it's not going to serve that person well and they won't come back again right yeah yeah with advancement in mind feedback i feel like is something that you do have to get used to taking on because it's hard to advance if no one pours into you in your career gives you any type of guidance i want to know from you how does someone prepare to land that next role whether that be internally or externally what are some of the things that they should be thinking about or trying to do or cognizant if they want to move up especially if they are maybe in middle management or haven't even started managing people but they want to get to a position where they're managing people or they want to eventually get to that senior leadership level yeah yeah i love that question and i get it often and i will say that you've got to start the process of landing that role before the role is being posted before the person in that role isn't even thinking about vacating that role and let me explain what i mean by that let's say today you're a specialist wanting to go into a manager role or a manager wanting to go into a director role how do you show up as that person today so as an example when i was a senior manager and i wanted to be a director there were some very clear differences between the two roles with a director role you're really focused on being a visionary setting a strategy asking questions and providing solutions for the bigger picture for the overarching goals of the group as opposed to what you might do in a senior manager role or manager role for yourself or even for the work that you're responsible for but certainly as you move into that next role the scope is larger and so what i did was i started showing up as that person before i even moved into that role so if you're a manager wanting to become a director how does the narrative change how does your line of questioning change how do you show up in a meeting how do you perform to the point where they say well gosh i think she's outgrown the manager role she needs to be a director right so don't wait until the role is posted don't wait until you get into the role to show that you can be in that role that you should be in that role start demonstrating it beforehand that's number one number two some of the more tactical things connect with the hiring manager before the job is even available i can't tell you how many times i have spoken with people who have had some interest in a role on my team and i've said well if you want to learn about the role let me know if you want to shadow the person in the role let me know and they don't show up until the role is posted it's too late and so you've got to start the process beforehand you really do you've got to connect with the manager you've got to connect with the person in the position that you're interested in moving into so that when that role is posted they're thinking about you before you're even thinking about them it's better to be sort of pulled in than to have to push your way in right so start the process far in advance i was just having a conversation today with someone that i'm mentoring and we were talking about her role and i said you know in year one you're really learning and you're growing and year two you're taking those learnings and you're starting to make an impact and toward the end of year two you're doing just that you're impacting the business year three is about your legacy and really where you want to go to next now understand that the timing in every role depends on that particular role and what's going on in the department but if you take that three-step approach you know that in year two it's time for you to start thinking about what's next it's time for you to start thinking about the development plan making the right connection so that when you're ready to move it's not a surprise to anyone in the organization in fact the hiring manager is welcoming you into the interview process let me tell you life is too short to be sleeping between anything less than really nice sheets maybe you looked at some retailers and you calculated the years of interest you pay on just one set of sheets but trust me go check out brooklinen i know that shopping for a good sheet can be intimidating right you're looking at all the different thread counts and you have no way of being able to touch them and feel them and see how good they feel but when i tell you brooklinen will not let you down they won't there are some things that i really like to splurge on and sheets is one of them and i will definitely vouch for brooklinen's sheets and duvet covers i'm currently sleeping in them and i love them brooklinen has over 50,000 five-star reviews and counting so they must be doing something right right and they're so confident in their product that they give you a 365 day money back guarantee don't wait do something nice for yourself go to brooklinen.com and use promo code spq to get 10 off your first order and free shipping that's b-r-o-o-k-l-i-n-e-n.com and enter promo code spq for 10 off your first order plus free shipping brooklinen.com and use promo code spq at checkout what qualities do you look for in an employee when they're someone that's wanting a promotion or wanting to advance within your group what types of things stand out to you yeah yeah well i will tell you this i look for thinkers i look for thinkers i look for people who are self-aware i look for people with a vision people who are decisive and they have the courage to put a stake in the ground and make a decision when others around them are too afraid to and those are soft skills right and if you think about my line of work in marketing sometimes people look for those more functional skills okay so i'm looking for a marketing manager and i want someone who's been a marketer i want someone who's done brand marketing i want someone who's done some sort of consumer insights work and while that's all good i look for those transferable skills i look for people who are such great thinkers and strategists that it doesn't matter if they're in marketing or another group they can thrive right and i oftentimes look for people who i say oh my gosh she could be or he could be my boss one day because i want the best talent on my team and i want to have a strong succession plan so those are some of the things that i look for you briefly mentioned a mentee how does one go about seeking a meaningful mentor relationship without seeing me that's something that one of our listeners was asking and i know why because that's one of those questions mentorship is always mentioned but it's one of those questions of you How do I get a mentor without seeming like, oh, my God, will you please be my mentor?

Yeah, well, you know, I've had my fair share of mentors over the years, and I've moved into those mentor-mentee relationships in different ways. I'll tell you, one of the first mentors I had, he was paired with me almost the way you'd be paired with someone using Match.com, right? It was a platform within my company, and you sort of filled out a questionnaire, the mentor filled out questionnaires, and then they matched you. So they matched us, and over several months, we had this relationship.

It didn't fit. He was a really nice guy. He was. But we didn't click.

We just didn't, and it felt like work, and it felt a little awkward, and so it sort of died out. It sort of fizzled out after a few months, and I will tell you where I've had the best relationships is where they've been more organic. It wasn't as if I even maybe asked for that person to be my mentor. We just had a relationship in some way, shape, or form.

Maybe we were in one of the same organizations, or that person worked in my group, or even outside of the group, but there was a reason for us to connect. And through organic conversation, you realize that that person was making an investment in you, and you appreciated that investment. And so I have a mentor right now. As an example, I've never asked her to be my mentor.

I'm trying to think back. She's been in my life for over 10 years. I never formally asked her, but if today someone met her and said, do you know Tavita? She would say, yeah, that's my mentee.

How do I just get a mentee, a mentor? It has to be organic, and you've got to feel it, and you've got to click. And I would say, you've got to show that you're wanting to grow, and not that you're needy. I mean, if you're needy, and I'm not needy an mentee, it can be frustrating, and it can feel a bit overwhelming.

So it's certainly going to approach the relationship in a way that allows that person to see that you're just looking to become better and enhance who you are. I love that advice. I actually haven't heard that before, and I think that's a really strong and strategic way to approach it, because people want to be aligned with, and next to, and knowing winners. And if you look at your growing, people want to be a part of that, and they want to say, I had a hand in her career trajectory.

I love that advice. That's a great way to think of positioning yourself from a strength perspective versus a vulnerable, weak, I need help, what was me, damsel in distress. That's it. You hit it on the head.

Yeah. In terms of executive saying power, what characteristics do you think make either your executive saying power, or somebody else's, just an executive period from your experience, and what's sort of seen throughout your years? Yeah, yeah. Well, as you think about executives or senior leaders within the company, there are sort of maybe three areas that that person should be mindful of and strong in.

One is you sort of lean yourself, and that sounds weird, but it sounds weird, but it's really about knowing yourself, which I mentioned earlier. Self-awareness is key. I can tell you, like I said, what I'm really good at, and I can tell you what I'm horrible at, and what no one should ever ask me to do. Knowing yourself is also about being able to navigate through chaos, if you're a leader, navigate through chaos, through ambiguity, to sort of help the team navigate through challenges and know that they have confidence in you as a leader.

So that first pillar is around knowing who you are. The second is around leading people. It's really about being an influencer who builds trust and followership, and you stand by your convictions, although you're sort of listening and understanding and receiving what people are saying, you know that at times, you have to put a stake in the ground and make a decision, even when there's risk involved. And so that people leadership piece is so important, because you've got to create shared value if you really want to lead your team and have a team of people who believe in your vision.

So that's the second. And the third is really around the business. It's about understanding the business, understanding your organization, values, the mission, the vision, really seeing the whole picture, and leading for the future. A good executive is present, but also leading and living in the future and sort of creating the future day by day, right?

Creating the future in real time. So I see a strong leader within the system as having those three things really well-defined. They have a good plan for staying self-aware. They are incredibly good at leading people and influencing the power, and they really understand the business.

They see the whole picture. They know how to make decisions. They know how to lead into the future, but also stay present. Let's take a step back a second.

If you're someone who is looking to climb, looking to scale this corporate ladder, and you encounter a situation where you have a manager or someone senior to you, maybe they're not even your direct manager, and an idea is brought up by you, and maybe they've done the idea, right? Yeah. It's not good. Whatever.

Then you guys are in a meeting, and they present your idea. And present it to the powers that be as though it's their own. How do you handle that? What do you do?

What should your thought process be if you still want to be in the game and climbing that ladder? Okay. So the Brooklyn Tendicle would say, just throw your hands up. This is a fight.

I mean, this is ridiculous, and we're about to handle different hands. But no, seriously. One of our former executives, Robert Woodruff, we have a quote of his in our lobby that sort of says, you can determine how far you go as long as you're not focused on who gets the credit. Now, I probably butchered that quote a bit, but it's all around not being concerned with the credit.

Now, here's the thing. We are human beings. And so if you were in a meeting, and someone shared an idea, and it's your idea, I'm going to go back to what I said earlier, and the first thing to do is nothing. Because emotionally, you are going through different phases, right?

And you could say or display something that won't serve you well at that time or in the future. So I would say take a step back. Now, I'm one that likes to get to the heart of something and really understand, am I missing something? So I may go to that person and say, hey, I heard a little bit of what you said in that room yesterday, and you presented an idea.

Love it. I shared it previously. And I just wanted to understand more. I wouldn't make an accusation.

I wouldn't say, hey, that was my idea. I would seek to understand. I would seek to understand. Now, if you get to the heart of the matter, and truly, this person has taken your idea and intentionally presented it as their own, you have to personally decide how you want to address that in your organization.

It could be addressing it with a person head on and asking if they understand how that might have been perceived by you. And if it were intentional on that person's part, you may decide that it needs to be escalated. So you really have to make that personal decision. And that's a hard one, because someone is intentionally presenting an idea that you presented.

But I would say, on a daily basis, there are times when we see things that, hmm, that was actually something that I did. Or maybe a manager says, great job, John. But really, it was Jane that did all of the work. And to be quite honest, when that happened to me, honestly, I just don't focus a lot on that, because I'm not concerned with who gets the credit.

And what I have found in my over 20 plus years in business is that nothing done in the dark. It can't be done in the dark. It may not come to light. And so it always comes full circle.

And there's never been a time when someone intentionally misrepresented what they were doing, and it wasn't found out. And I've had lots of experiences where I sat quiet, and it worked itself out. Without you having to. Yeah, letting the waters.

Exactly. I'm going to say this really quickly. This is something that an old HR manager shared with me when I was going through some really odd stuff, very similar to what you mentioned. And I went to her for advice, and she said, Tanya, rise above that phrase.

You are better than that. You don't need to be messy. You don't need to get involved in that. Allow it to work itself out.

And it absolutely did without me even addressing it. If someone is thinking, how do I build the trust and the confidence of the leadership team? Because they know that's one of the things that they need in order to advance. What would you advise them?

Yeah, trust is all about consistency. It's about showing up and doing your portion to the extent that they know that they can rely on you. They can rely on you. It is following through.

It's doing what you say you are going to do. And then the last piece of that is in stewarding your work. And that's difficult because you have to have humble confidence, and you can't be arrogant, but you've got to find a way to let the organization know what you're doing so they can see that consistency demonstrated. We are all so busy every single day.

We go in, and in some organizations, we are busy from sunup to sundown. We're in meetings. We are not fully present because we're multitasking, and you don't always get to see the great work that someone is doing. But if you're being consistent, you are performing to the best of your ability, you are following through.

Maybe you're even doing a lot more than you even should be doing. You've got to find a way to make sure your organization knows that it's happening. That's one way that you can build trust. Yeah, I like that way.

In your career, what turned out to be more challenging than you expected, and what was easier than you expected? Oh, that's a good one. So many, many years ago, I was in channel strategy and marketing, and I won't go into detail. I will just say that our company was struggling within this channel.

There was a lot going on. There were changes happening in the industry, and some changes had to be made. Some changes had to be made. And the economic guardrails that we were using, I'm saying that I'm not going to try to get specific here, but from a financial perspective, we went on the right track.

We went on the right track. And so I had to adjust the economic guardrails for the system. And I meant working with our finance department. I meant working with our contract team.

That was something, Ayana, that I had never done. In fact, I was more of a marketer, where I was living in the creative space, and I was comfortably there, right? I wasn't living in the quantitative space. And so I had to write a white paper, and I had to influence our entire violin community and some of our leaders on our corporate side.

This was the right thing to do. And I will tell you that it stretched me. I wasn't comfortable. It wasn't something that came to me naturally, right?

I wasn't gifted in this area. And it was arguably one of the most challenging things that I had to do, but it was probably one of the most rewarding. It was one of the things that shaped me the most, because I realized that, oh, man, with effort and intention, I can do anything. There are areas where we don't naturally thrive, where we don't go to because it's not comfortable.

But I realized that even in the midst of that discomfort, I could get it done. I could get it done. It was a very challenging and stressful time for our business. But on the other side of that, favorable outcome, strong results.

And so our leadership team was certainly happy. They didn't realize the journey that I had been on to get there, how healthy it was. But that was something that was challenging. Something that's been easy for me, and when I look back, I'm still surprised.

It's just navigating my career. As a Coca-Cola company, over 20 years, I've had about 10 different jobs. I typically stay in roles for about two to three years, using a method that I shared earlier with year one, year two, year three, really being focused on legacy and leaving the greatest impact. And then I move on to other areas of the business that might serve me well, and I can serve it well.

And I've been able to do that and really shape my career journey to be what I needed it to be for me. And it doesn't have to be a challenge, but it takes work. It really does. It takes work.

It takes effort. It takes a board of directors to rally around you and help you with it. But that's been easier than I probably would have anticipated. Okay, okay.

You just mentioned about having to convince other parties within the company of what you were finding of your learnings and everything. What have you learned about being in situations where you have to present at internal meetings? And how did you approach presenting or preparing to present your first time around? The first time that they were like, you're going to present in XYZ meeting, and there are going to be so-and-so-and-so in the meeting.

How did you prepare for that? And what have you learned about presenting in those types of capacities? Oh my goodness, Ayanna. I just closed my eyes.

And I took myself back to, it really makes me anxious when I even think about it. I took myself back to one of the first and biggest presentations I've ever had. I was very young in my career, probably about four years in. And I had to present to a group of, I'm trying to think, maybe about 60 to 100 people.

Somewhere, I know that's a big gap, but maybe 60 to 100 people. And I was young, you know, I was in my early 20s, and this was an older crowd. And certainly far more experienced than I was. And so what I did was memorize.

I memorized what I wanted to say. And I had several minutes on the agenda, probably about 20 to 30 minutes. And what happened was, I choked. And there was a part, I came to a piece of my speech that I couldn't remember.

And so you can probably imagine what happened after that, right? It completely threw me off. I couldn't remember what to say next. I started to stumble.

I started to sweat. And it was arguably one of the worst experiences that I've had. I can't even tell you what happened after, because it was blank, completely blank. And I know that so many have had those experiences, right?

Where you're sweating, you don't know what to say next. Things that probably were more irrelevant than the last. But that was probably the first and last time that's ever happened to me. So let's be clear.

Because I left that situation thinking, never again. Never again. And so I really had to take a step back and think through, what went wrong? Number one, I tried to memorize.

No. Because if you truly know what you're doing, and you are truly prepared, you don't have to memorize, right? If you ask me, you can talk through anything. If you ask me right now to tell you about my childhood, or tell you about college, or tell you about some of the brands of the Coca-Cola company, I can tell you, and I don't have to memorize it, because I just know.

And so one of my key takeaways is, be prepared, and know yourself. Because without a script, it doesn't matter, right? The United States, but they really train you on how to speak publicly. It is something that even the best and brightest struggle with.

And I would say, if it's something you struggle with, confront it. Don't run away from it. If you struggle with public speaking, find opportunities to speak publicly, because the more you do it, the more you grow comfortable with it. There have been times when I have recorded myself to see what my quirks are, to see how I move my hands, to see how I bat my eyes, to see what weird things I do, to see what works really well, so that I can repeat those things.

It's something that you have to absolutely practice. Yesterday, I was at a conference, and I had a speaking engagement, and I called on some young lady in the audience, and I said, you guys get into groups, and I want you to decide who will be the speaker for the group. And one young lady stood up, and she said, the reason why I took the mic is because I didn't want to take the mic. I've never been comfortable speaking publicly, but part of what you shared today, Tamika, is that we have to grow comfortable with young comfortably.

So I'm talking into this mic, and I'm sweating, and I'm anxious, and I don't want to do it, but I'm doing it because I have to. And I said, you know what? The next time it will be easier for you. And so fast forward to the end of my talk, and I asked the group of ladies to go back into those groups and report out on their key learnings, and guess what?

She stood up with the mic. She said, I wanted to do it again. I wanted to do it again, so it was the first time. And so if that's something that you struggle with, whether it's public speaking or anything else, tackle it today.

Work on it today. The more you run from it, the more difficult it will become. And then it just starts to feel like this big, scary, monstrous thing because you keep painting this picture in your mind, and you haven't done it yet. So then it just creates more anxiety around it.

Yes, I agree. It absolutely does. It absolutely does. When you ride a bike, you fall, you scrape your knees, and you keep doing it to the point where you can ride without even holding on to the handlebars, right?

And have fun. And have fun with it. And so we should approach those things in the workplace with that same type of passion. We talked about a lot.

You've given us so much to think about, so much to work with. Is there anything that maybe we haven't covered in this conversation that you maybe feel passionate about and that you want to say? You just really want to scream it from the mountaintop. So let's hear it.

You want to hear anything you would love to leave us with and share? You know, there is something I want to share. And this kind of takes me back to a conversation I had with someone who is an informal mentee of mine. She was really upset.

She had gone for three different roles, and she didn't land any of those roles, any of those roles. And so I asked her, we were having a session to talk about it. Tell me why you think they pass on you. And she gave lots of reasons, and they were all focused on what those people didn't see in her.

They were all focused on the decisions that they made and why they were wrong, right? They were, oh, well, she wanted this for her team, or he really had another candidate in mind. And I said, wow, that's interesting. I didn't share it with her.

What I did was, I said, you know, let's take a look at your resume, and let's talk through some interview questions, and let's start there, and then we'll diagnose the problem. And so she shared her resume, and I said, wow, you know, this resume is just merely a description of your job. I don't see any accomplishments here. I don't see anything that sets you apart.

I said, if you go into a role, and there are three other people with resumes like yours, because they're in the same function, and they have had the same type of progression, which isn't uncommon. how does one choose you over the next person she said well gosh i don't know i hadn't thought about that i said okay well that's number one let's work on that and so then we started working on the interview and i gave her a question a very common question that you get in all behavioral interviews and it was a three-part question and she answered it and i said okay now i want you to reverse the role here i want you to take your answer and as if you're the hiring manager i want you to rate your answer from one to ten by looking at the question and then reconciling that against your answer and she did that and she's like wow i gave an answer but i really didn't answer the question and i said okay that's fine let's move on to the next we went on to the next and she looked at her answer and she didn't say anything and i said is everything okay and she's like i didn't do well in the interview and i said you didn't she said no i realize now that i didn't do well in the interview so you probably see where i'm going with this when she came into my office it was really about the wrongs it was about them there was no self-awareness and no self-reflection she's an amazing person she wasn't avoiding that she just hadn't had a conversation that took her to a place where she was sort of confident to reflect on what she could have done better what i want to leave this audience with is the best thing you can do for yourself is not focus on the things that you can't control not focus on things that they're not within your power to even change the only thing you can change is you and so if you take your seat at the table and you're prepared you're buttoned up you do it to the best of your ability you know that on the other side they are looking at you as if you've represented yourself well that's all you can control if you focus too heavily on things that you can't control you actually take your power away and so after that session where we revised her resume and we smoothed out some of her interviewing skills she felt ready she felt ready now she hadn't had an opportunity to interview just yet but she took her power back right please focus on what you control stop pointing fingers it doesn't serve you well it actually takes your power away and you need to own your destiny you need to own your career and that's what i want to empower everyone listening to this podcast to do i feel like we all need you on speed dollars our mentor right now do you remember what that question was the behavioral question that you asked her the three-part question that she did what was that question because we all need to know because we need to be prepared yeah absolutely so with the question i sort of made up but it's based on what i've seen in an interview package it was tell me about a challenging time that you faced when you were leading a project that was the first part of the question right tell me about a challenging time when you were leading a project how did you influence the group to change their direction and what was the result so three-part question right now here's what people do is it right right that's a common one right but here's what people do they hear challenge and they start answering the question and they talk about an issue that they face and this is how they solved it and they changed the world and they put a cape on and it was amazing well hey wait a minute there was a two-part question really the question wasn't as much about the challenge as it was about your influencing ability right right that second part of the question was about influencing the team to change direction and then what was the result of your influencing power so you've gone down a path of answering the question and you think you've given a great answer but guess what when it's time to rate your answers you don't get a good score because you really didn't answer what they were asking and so i've done that in interviews we're guilty of that but it's important to be mindful of that those interviews questions let me tell you you know what they can be tricky yeah they can be tricky and if you don't listen you walk away from that interview having not answered and just having not given the experiences that they were looking to hear right now you just said rating interviews and this makes me think does every company and you probably can't say this for certain but from your experience do a lot of companies especially at a certain level rate your interview performance like really truly with numbers and sort of like make a calculation before they make a determination sure sure and you're right it varies i can tell you that there's always some sort of assessment whether it's qualitative or quantitative or a combination of both i would think that good interview processes really marry the art and science of both right it's not just those hardcore metrics it's also some of those softer skills and some of those more qualitative attributes and they sort of combine but i've seen where some hiring managers especially those who are really rooted in numbers right they look for a more scientific way to assess whether or not someone is good for a role but it just depends on the hiring manager and their style because it varies but i would say that most often you can count on there being some sort of assessment the rating scale may be different how they approach it could be different but absolutely they're looking for a way to separate the candidate so they can make a sound decision my final question for you because we talked about so much and i've enjoyed this conversation what does success mean or look like for you oh that's such a good question although i've had an incredible career and it's not over yet i continue to think through what's next for me and i don't sit still wrong but success for me isn't really rooted in my career as it being rooted in just enjoying life waking up every day as a mom of three fun crazy kids and maximizing my time with them going to work and being the best that i can be being a great friend to those in my circle pouring into my community and making investments in this next generation of workers and especially in people who are underrepresented in the workplace and so success for me is service it really is it's service i'm fulfilled when i'm helping other people and so if i'm never promoted again but i am challenged and i'm able to serve others i may be happy and i say maybe because i like promotion but i am most fulfilled when i'm able to pour into other people and really enjoy every aspect of my life and sometimes it's balanced and sometimes it's not but if i'm happy along the way then i'm good and that's success for me oh love it we love it is there any way that you would like for people to maybe be able to reach out to you or keep in touch with you i have two ways that i stay connected with people one way is linkedin and i will tell you that that's not my preferred way because linkedin is so incredibly siloed and focused on career only and like i said i approach my life in a more holistic way now i'm on instagram and i love instagram and believe it or not ayana i get dms all the time about career yeah i do i get a lot of dms about career i get a lot of dms about balancing motherhood and work life and so i can be reached at tanika cabral t-a-n-s-a-n-n-s-i-k-a-c-a-b-s-and-boy-r-a-l on instagram or linkedin i'd love to hear from those listening to this podcast let me know what you think give me some feedback i said feedback as a guest let me know if this resonated with you also challenge me if there are some things that you've experienced and you're thinking oh tanika you are off track there i want to hear those too because those pieces of feedback help me and the diversity and all those experiences that i hear about are certainly things that i use when i share with others whether on a panel or the keynote speaker and so i love to engage in the audience in that way so reach out to me i'm here i want to hear from you yes i love that and also share if some of the things that tanika has said if they have helped you to reframe how you were thinking about something or to solve a big problem or something that you were grappling with in your career because i think that's useful to know as well because that's what we really want these conversations to be something that can help push you forward in your career you are absolutely correct ayana and i say as listeners are sort of taking this in to also share with you ayana what resonated and where they want you to go deeper because there are probably pieces within this interview that can even be broken out and explored even more right and so as you are shaping sort of your podcast strategy for 2020 and beyond and you hear from listeners i know that you can believe her and if i can help with any of that i'm here so you just let me know thank you so much this has been a great conversation we absolutely appreciate you absolutely thank you hope to hear from everybody soon bye