Ed Hightower: From South Side Struggles to International Referee | A Success Story

?️ Dive into the extraordinary life of Ed Hightower on this heart-pounding episode of Circuit of Success Podcast! ? From humble beginnings in the South to the global stage as a former NCAA basketball referee, Ed shares his riveting journey with host Brett Gilliland. ? Uncover the secrets to Ed’s success as he emphasizes the crucial role of a solid value system and guardrails in staying focused and on track. Get the inside scoop on facing legendary coaches like Bobby Knight and Judd Heathcote, and the invaluable lessons learned by doing the right thing, even when it’s unpopular. Hear firsthand about his experiences representing the United States in international tournaments and the art of staying objective in high-stakes moments. ? Ed’s motivational insights extend beyond the court, urging young people to do the right thing when no one is watching and take ownership of mistakes. Don’t miss out on the incredible anecdotes, including Ed’s unforgettable night at the Final Four dinner in 1989, seated next to none other than the legendary Andy Kaufman! Join us for an inspiring conversation with a true game-changer. Ed Hightower’s story is a beacon of hard work, dedication, and resilience—packed with timeless lessons applicable to everyone. #EdHightower #NCAAReferee #CircuitOfSuccess Full Youtube Episode 00:00:13.000 –> 00:00:15.000 Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host 00:00:15.000 –> 00:00:18.000 Brett Gilliland. And today, I’ve got Ed Hightower 00:00:18.000 –> 00:00:19.000 with me. Ed, how you doing? Oh, the 00:00:19.000 –> 00:00:21.000 pleasure is all mine, Brett. It’s good to 00:00:21.000 –> 00:00:22.000 be with you. It’s good to be with 00:00:22.000 –> 00:00:23.000 you. So, 00:00:24.000 –> 00:00:26.000 well, people that don’t know. You probably, everybody’s 00:00:26.000 –> 00:00:27.000 watching this knows who are. I mean, you’ve 00:00:27.000 –> 00:00:28.000 had a heck of a career. Well, I’ve 00:00:28.000 –> 00:00:30.000 been very fortunate. I’ve had a lot of 00:00:30.000 –> 00:00:32.000 support along the way, and, 00:00:32.000 –> 00:00:36.000 very, very blessed. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. So former 00:00:36.000 –> 00:00:38.000 superintendent at Edwardsville Hightower school, nineteen years in 00:00:38.000 –> 00:00:40.000 Edwardsville, but forty years in education. 00:00:41.000 –> 00:00:42.000 Forty years in education. In, 00:00:43.000 –> 00:00:46.000 nineteen years, a superintendent update at Whisfield School 00:00:46.000 –> 00:00:49.000 District. I went there in nineteen ninety Gilliland 00:00:49.000 –> 00:00:49.000 retired. 00:00:50.000 –> 00:00:53.000 In two thousand fifteen. So Amazing. In, thirty 00:00:53.000 –> 00:00:56.000 six years, is an NCAA referee? Thirty six 00:00:56.000 –> 00:00:59.000 years as an NC Yagate referee, thirty three 00:00:59.000 –> 00:01:01.000 years in the Big 10:12 00:01:01.000 –> 00:01:04.000 final fours, the World Games. Man, 00:01:05.000 –> 00:01:07.000 representative of the United States at the World 00:01:07.000 –> 00:01:08.000 Games in Bonazaris, 00:01:09.000 –> 00:01:11.000 a representative of the United States at the 00:01:11.000 –> 00:01:14.000 Good World Games in, Saint Petersburg so I 00:01:14.000 –> 00:01:17.000 was very, very fortunate. That’s incredible. Incredible. I 00:01:17.000 –> 00:01:19.000 remember you in my, fighting a Lineite days 00:01:19.000 –> 00:01:21.000 when I was, you know, younger man and 00:01:21.000 –> 00:01:23.000 and watch to my my flying line item, 00:01:23.000 –> 00:01:24.000 which we I wanna talk about that later 00:01:24.000 –> 00:01:26.000 if that’s alright. So but if you can, 00:01:27.000 –> 00:01:28.000 Ed, give us a little lay of the 00:01:28.000 –> 00:01:29.000 lay in the story. You don’t just wake 00:01:29.000 –> 00:01:31.000 up and spend forty years and get your 00:01:31.000 –> 00:01:33.000 doctorate and, you know, have an amazing marriage 00:01:33.000 –> 00:01:35.000 of forty nine years, two daughters, NCAA AA, 00:01:35.000 –> 00:01:37.000 all the stuff that we just mentioned. But 00:01:37.000 –> 00:01:39.000 what’s what’s some of that backstory? Some of 00:01:39.000 –> 00:01:40.000 your stories? Well, back story, you know, I’m 00:01:40.000 –> 00:01:41.000 just one of these, 00:01:43.000 –> 00:01:44.000 young individuals, 00:01:44.000 –> 00:01:45.000 very fortunate. 00:01:46.000 –> 00:01:48.000 I grew up in the south. 00:01:48.000 –> 00:01:50.000 My mom and and, 00:01:50.000 –> 00:01:52.000 dad, divorced when I was twelve years old. 00:01:52.000 –> 00:01:56.000 I’m the second of eight Children, I never 00:01:56.000 –> 00:01:58.000 thought that, I would complete, 00:01:59.000 –> 00:02:02.000 even a high school education when I was 00:02:02.000 –> 00:02:03.000 in the south. 00:02:04.000 –> 00:02:06.000 Things were tough. My mom 00:02:07.000 –> 00:02:07.000 moved, 00:02:08.000 –> 00:02:11.000 to Alton, Illinois in nineteen, 00:02:11.000 –> 00:02:12.000 sixty six. 00:02:13.000 –> 00:02:13.000 And, 00:02:15.000 –> 00:02:17.000 she always made education a priority, 00:02:18.000 –> 00:02:20.000 education church, given back to the community a 00:02:20.000 –> 00:02:21.000 priority. 00:02:22.000 –> 00:02:23.000 For all eight of us, 00:02:24.000 –> 00:02:24.000 siblings. 00:02:24.000 –> 00:02:27.000 Yeah. And, we were very fortunate. And from 00:02:27.000 –> 00:02:28.000 that point, 00:02:30.000 –> 00:02:31.000 played basketball, 00:02:31.000 –> 00:02:33.000 baseball at Alton High School, 00:02:34.000 –> 00:02:37.000 nineteen seventy. I graduated and went to s 00:02:37.000 –> 00:02:40.000 I u e on a basketball scholarship plate 00:02:40.000 –> 00:02:42.000 for the cougars. I know that. And started 00:02:42.000 –> 00:02:46.000 refereeing intramural basketballs with these poor kids, 00:02:46.000 –> 00:02:49.000 didn’t have any money, but, start refereeing intramural 00:02:49.000 –> 00:02:50.000 basketball, 00:02:51.000 –> 00:02:53.000 in nineteen seventy one for a dollar and 00:02:53.000 –> 00:02:55.000 twenty five cents a game. Think about that 00:02:55.000 –> 00:02:57.000 one for a moment. Man. 00:02:57.000 –> 00:02:57.000 And, 00:02:58.000 –> 00:02:59.000 I’d watch, 00:02:59.000 –> 00:03:01.000 you know, I I had no, 00:03:02.000 –> 00:03:05.000 relationship with officials when I when I played. 00:03:05.000 –> 00:03:06.000 But, 00:03:06.000 –> 00:03:08.000 you know, when you can, 00:03:08.000 –> 00:03:09.000 referee, 00:03:09.000 –> 00:03:11.000 the various fraternities, 00:03:12.000 –> 00:03:13.000 in college 00:03:13.000 –> 00:03:15.000 and some of those guys who think that 00:03:15.000 –> 00:03:17.000 they were the best players ever, and some 00:03:17.000 –> 00:03:18.000 of those guys who never could play. Yeah. 00:03:19.000 –> 00:03:20.000 You you get a a mix and a 00:03:20.000 –> 00:03:21.000 variance of, 00:03:23.000 –> 00:03:25.000 my term is better than your fraternity. 00:03:25.000 –> 00:03:26.000 There you go. 00:03:26.000 –> 00:03:27.000 And so I graduated, 00:03:28.000 –> 00:03:30.000 in nineteen seventy four, I started teaching. My 00:03:30.000 –> 00:03:32.000 wife and I were married, and then I 00:03:32.000 –> 00:03:34.000 got a raise for refereeing. 00:03:35.000 –> 00:03:36.000 I start, refereeing, 00:03:36.000 –> 00:03:38.000 open city league recreation 00:03:38.000 –> 00:03:40.000 basketball, and, I got a raise from a 00:03:40.000 –> 00:03:43.000 dollar twenty five cents a game to, five 00:03:43.000 –> 00:03:44.000 dollars a game. 00:03:44.000 –> 00:03:45.000 Oh. So I was in I was in 00:03:45.000 –> 00:03:46.000 seven heaven. 00:03:48.000 –> 00:03:50.000 Five times more money. You got it in. 00:03:50.000 –> 00:03:51.000 I would work three games, 00:03:52.000 –> 00:03:53.000 three games a night, 00:03:53.000 –> 00:03:55.000 three times a week. Shit. 00:03:55.000 –> 00:03:56.000 It had nineteen, 00:03:57.000 –> 00:03:59.000 seventy four. That was pretty good money. You 00:03:59.000 –> 00:04:01.000 know, a good nice supplement. You know? Yeah. 00:04:01.000 –> 00:04:01.000 Absolutely. 00:04:02.000 –> 00:04:03.000 And from that point, 00:04:04.000 –> 00:04:05.000 It just happened, 00:04:05.000 –> 00:04:06.000 at the same time. 00:04:07.000 –> 00:04:09.000 I was back at SAW working on my, 00:04:09.000 –> 00:04:10.000 my master’s 00:04:11.000 –> 00:04:11.000 in education 00:04:12.000 –> 00:04:13.000 to become an administrator. 00:04:14.000 –> 00:04:17.000 I got that. I was very fortunate to 00:04:17.000 –> 00:04:17.000 have had, 00:04:18.000 –> 00:04:20.000 a great mentor, 00:04:21.000 –> 00:04:22.000 in the superintendent. 00:04:23.000 –> 00:04:25.000 Who took me on his wings, 00:04:25.000 –> 00:04:26.000 this young, 00:04:27.000 –> 00:04:28.000 African American kid, and, 00:04:30.000 –> 00:04:33.000 and, I went into administration a very young 00:04:33.000 –> 00:04:34.000 age. Okay. Yeah. And, 00:04:35.000 –> 00:04:38.000 I’ll tell you, Brett of the forty years. 00:04:38.000 –> 00:04:39.000 I spent in, 00:04:39.000 –> 00:04:40.000 education 00:04:41.000 –> 00:04:44.000 thirty seven of those years were actually in 00:04:44.000 –> 00:04:46.000 administration. Oh my goodness. So I had a 00:04:46.000 –> 00:04:48.000 lot I had a lot of opportunities 00:04:48.000 –> 00:04:50.000 to screw it up and make mistakes. Exactly. 00:04:51.000 –> 00:04:51.000 Exactly. 00:04:51.000 –> 00:04:53.000 So what what were your expectations like? So 00:04:53.000 –> 00:04:54.000 you said you grew up in the south, 00:04:54.000 –> 00:04:56.000 didn’t have any money, but yet, I would 00:04:56.000 –> 00:04:59.000 think to do that, your expectations were high. 00:04:59.000 –> 00:05:02.000 Expect taste expectations are extremely high that you 00:05:02.000 –> 00:05:03.000 have to work. 00:05:04.000 –> 00:05:07.000 You had to work. My mom and still, 00:05:08.000 –> 00:05:11.000 work ethic in in all of us Yeah. 00:05:11.000 –> 00:05:11.000 That, 00:05:13.000 –> 00:05:15.000 that there was no compromise. What did she 00:05:15.000 –> 00:05:17.000 do for a living? Oh, gosh. She, 00:05:17.000 –> 00:05:18.000 worked in the fields, 00:05:19.000 –> 00:05:20.000 cotton fields, 00:05:21.000 –> 00:05:23.000 She was a nurse. She went back and 00:05:23.000 –> 00:05:26.000 got, her certificate to be a nurse. 00:05:26.000 –> 00:05:29.000 And, and then, of course, when we moved 00:05:29.000 –> 00:05:32.000 here in sixty six, She worked at Olin, 00:05:33.000 –> 00:05:36.000 industry where money was, plenty for, work was 00:05:36.000 –> 00:05:39.000 plenty for, and she was able to care 00:05:39.000 –> 00:05:42.000 for us, but our value system was simple. 00:05:43.000 –> 00:05:44.000 Work, 00:05:44.000 –> 00:05:45.000 be honest, 00:05:46.000 –> 00:05:46.000 go to church, 00:05:47.000 –> 00:05:48.000 give something back. 00:05:49.000 –> 00:05:52.000 It’s simple. And World needs that. Right? It’s 00:05:52.000 –> 00:05:55.000 so simple. And, I never forgot that. And 00:05:55.000 –> 00:05:57.000 that’s what I believe in today, and that’s 00:05:58.000 –> 00:05:59.000 we brought up our daughters. 00:06:00.000 –> 00:06:03.000 That’s the message that I send clearly 00:06:04.000 –> 00:06:04.000 to young people. 00:06:05.000 –> 00:06:06.000 I’ve sent 00:06:06.000 –> 00:06:08.000 over my years. 00:06:08.000 –> 00:06:09.000 And, 00:06:10.000 –> 00:06:12.000 even now, I’m heavily involved, 00:06:13.000 –> 00:06:13.000 with, 00:06:14.000 –> 00:06:15.000 two 00:06:15.000 –> 00:06:16.000 projects, 00:06:16.000 –> 00:06:17.000 and building forty, 00:06:18.000 –> 00:06:20.000 affordable houses in Alton, 00:06:21.000 –> 00:06:22.000 starting March, 00:06:23.000 –> 00:06:25.000 and I put together a white people to 00:06:25.000 –> 00:06:25.000 revitalize, 00:06:26.000 –> 00:06:27.000 Venice. 00:06:29.000 –> 00:06:30.000 You know, that community, 00:06:31.000 –> 00:06:31.000 low income, 00:06:32.000 –> 00:06:33.000 poverty stricken, driven, 00:06:35.000 –> 00:06:37.000 no grocery store, no healthcare facilities. 00:06:38.000 –> 00:06:40.000 We were fortunate to get them a new 00:06:40.000 –> 00:06:44.000 elementary school, which, we will break ground there. 00:06:44.000 –> 00:06:45.000 In March, 00:06:46.000 –> 00:06:49.000 about twenty four, twenty six million dollars thanks 00:06:49.000 –> 00:06:50.000 to our legislators. 00:06:50.000 –> 00:06:53.000 We’re working them a grocery store. We’re working 00:06:53.000 –> 00:06:56.000 to get them a healthcare sit, facility. 00:06:57.000 –> 00:07:00.000 And then, we’re gonna put forty homes there. 00:07:01.000 –> 00:07:04.000 We’re working to bring in a rec center 00:07:04.000 –> 00:07:06.000 for the young people there. So again, 00:07:06.000 –> 00:07:08.000 given back to the community, 00:07:09.000 –> 00:07:12.000 The second initiative that, I have going now. 00:07:14.000 –> 00:07:17.000 For the Madison High School, students, we’ve started 00:07:17.000 –> 00:07:19.000 a Sky bullshit fund 00:07:20.000 –> 00:07:22.000 for those high school students, 00:07:23.000 –> 00:07:26.000 whereby we will be able to give 00:07:26.000 –> 00:07:27.000 anywhere from, 00:07:29.000 –> 00:07:31.000 three to five two thousand dollars scholarships, 00:07:33.000 –> 00:07:34.000 each year beginning, 00:07:35.000 –> 00:07:35.000 and, 00:07:36.000 –> 00:07:37.000 twenty four. 00:07:37.000 –> 00:07:39.000 So, you know, again, I’m, 00:07:39.000 –> 00:07:40.000 pretty, 00:07:40.000 –> 00:07:42.000 pretty patient. But but, you know, the the 00:07:42.000 –> 00:07:45.000 the thing, it’s all on my time. 00:07:46.000 –> 00:07:48.000 You know, it’s not like I have to 00:07:48.000 –> 00:07:50.000 punch a clock now. It’s not like I’ve 00:07:50.000 –> 00:07:52.000 got When I was superintendent, 00:07:52.000 –> 00:07:54.000 I had seven thousand six hundred students in 00:07:54.000 –> 00:07:56.000 the Atmos School District, 00:07:56.000 –> 00:07:57.000 and parents, 00:07:58.000 –> 00:07:59.000 very demanding. 00:08:00.000 –> 00:08:02.000 And so I don’t have the parents screaming 00:08:02.000 –> 00:08:04.000 and hollering at me. I missed the kids. 00:08:04.000 –> 00:08:06.000 Same thing with her friend. I don’t have 00:08:07.000 –> 00:08:09.000 folks like you from the whole line eye 00:08:09.000 –> 00:08:11.000 screaming and holler net. That’s a terrible call. 00:08:11.000 –> 00:08:14.000 That was a terrible call. Hightower. You you 00:08:14.000 –> 00:08:16.000 know, you hate Illinois. Right? Oh, you know, 00:08:16.000 –> 00:08:18.000 and then I go to Michigan. You hate 00:08:18.000 –> 00:08:20.000 Michigan? I hate Michigan. You know, I hate, 00:08:20.000 –> 00:08:20.000 you know, 00:08:21.000 –> 00:08:23.000 So, you know, I don’t have that now. 00:08:23.000 –> 00:08:25.000 You know, I just wake up and do 00:08:25.000 –> 00:08:26.000 the kinds of things that, 00:08:27.000 –> 00:08:28.000 that meets 00:08:28.000 –> 00:08:30.000 my value system 00:08:30.000 –> 00:08:33.000 of giving back and, and so on. Then 00:08:33.000 –> 00:08:36.000 during the wintertime, my wife and I, forty 00:08:36.000 –> 00:08:37.000 nine years, 00:08:38.000 –> 00:08:38.000 we, 00:08:39.000 –> 00:08:42.000 I go to Florida and, spend time there. 00:08:42.000 –> 00:08:44.000 So Where can that golf game? I do. 00:08:44.000 –> 00:08:46.000 What’s the handicap? My handicap is a seven. 00:08:47.000 –> 00:08:47.000 My index 00:08:48.000 –> 00:08:51.000 found. My index is, is about an eight, 00:08:52.000 –> 00:08:54.000 seven out at Sunset Country Club. So, yeah, 00:08:54.000 –> 00:08:57.000 so, you know, so Yeah. The the the 00:08:57.000 –> 00:08:58.000 the golf has improved 00:08:59.000 –> 00:09:01.000 since I retired because I was I’m not 00:09:01.000 –> 00:09:03.000 on a I’m not on a phone all 00:09:03.000 –> 00:09:05.000 the time. Yeah. Check this email resolve that 00:09:05.000 –> 00:09:07.000 message and do all that. So, you know, 00:09:07.000 –> 00:09:08.000 here’s the thing I you’ve mentioned a couple 00:09:08.000 –> 00:09:11.000 times is your values organization. Right? So your 00:09:11.000 –> 00:09:13.000 values, I think we think of as an 00:09:13.000 –> 00:09:15.000 organization We had to be values aligned and 00:09:15.000 –> 00:09:17.000 mission aligned. And and what I have found 00:09:17.000 –> 00:09:19.000 through my twenty two, twenty three year career 00:09:19.000 –> 00:09:21.000 is when those things are aligned, good things 00:09:21.000 –> 00:09:24.000 happen. Right? Absolutely. But when they’re not, bad 00:09:24.000 –> 00:09:25.000 things happen. Right? Absolutely. 00:09:25.000 –> 00:09:27.000 Because be and and the reason, 00:09:29.000 –> 00:09:30.000 there are no guardrails. 00:09:31.000 –> 00:09:34.000 When you when your when your value system 00:09:35.000 –> 00:09:36.000 is a line, there are guardrails that 00:09:37.000 –> 00:09:37.000 keeps 00:09:40.000 –> 00:09:44.000 that keep you focused. Yeah. You know, when 00:09:44.000 –> 00:09:44.000 I 00:09:45.000 –> 00:09:46.000 refereed, 00:09:46.000 –> 00:09:49.000 when I represented the United States, I remember 00:09:49.000 –> 00:09:50.000 this 00:09:50.000 –> 00:09:52.000 so vividly. 00:09:53.000 –> 00:09:55.000 My my first trip 00:09:57.000 –> 00:09:59.000 to the world games. That was the first 00:09:59.000 –> 00:10:01.000 time that, I mean, I’m on major, 00:10:03.000 –> 00:10:04.000 international stage. 00:10:06.000 –> 00:10:08.000 Mike Kachevsky was the coach 00:10:09.000 –> 00:10:10.000 of the US team. 00:10:11.000 –> 00:10:12.000 I’m never free. 00:10:14.000 –> 00:10:15.000 What an awesome responsibility 00:10:16.000 –> 00:10:18.000 to represent your country? 00:10:19.000 –> 00:10:22.000 And as you as they prepare you to 00:10:22.000 –> 00:10:23.000 go 00:10:23.000 –> 00:10:24.000 to, 00:10:25.000 –> 00:10:28.000 setting like what my first trip was. 00:10:28.000 –> 00:10:31.000 They tell you, it’s not if 00:10:31.000 –> 00:10:32.000 you’re gonna be proposition. 00:10:34.000 –> 00:10:35.000 It’s when. 00:10:36.000 –> 00:10:37.000 And 00:10:38.000 –> 00:10:39.000 The 00:10:40.000 –> 00:10:42.000 simple answer is, just say no. 00:10:43.000 –> 00:10:45.000 It it walks to double proposition to do 00:10:45.000 –> 00:10:47.000 what? A proposition given money. 00:10:48.000 –> 00:10:48.000 Yeah. 00:10:50.000 –> 00:10:50.000 To 00:10:52.000 –> 00:10:53.000 Make a different call. Make a different different 00:10:53.000 –> 00:10:57.000 call or something like that. So, yeah, those 00:10:57.000 –> 00:10:57.000 all of those, 00:11:00.000 –> 00:11:00.000 tangibles 00:11:00.000 –> 00:11:01.000 are 00:11:01.000 –> 00:11:03.000 there to incentivize 00:11:03.000 –> 00:11:06.000 you to do the wrong things. Right. But 00:11:06.000 –> 00:11:09.000 if your value system is in check, 00:11:10.000 –> 00:11:12.000 you’re gonna do the right things when people 00:11:12.000 –> 00:11:13.000 aren’t around. 00:11:15.000 –> 00:11:17.000 And that’s the key thing I tell young 00:11:17.000 –> 00:11:17.000 people. 00:11:18.000 –> 00:11:20.000 Don’t get caught up with just doing the 00:11:20.000 –> 00:11:21.000 right things 00:11:22.000 –> 00:11:22.000 when, 00:11:23.000 –> 00:11:24.000 or the right thing when 00:11:25.000 –> 00:11:28.000 somebody’s watching you. The big test is can 00:11:28.000 –> 00:11:29.000 you 00:11:29.000 –> 00:11:32.000 do the right thing or the right things 00:11:32.000 –> 00:11:36.000 when people aren’t Yep. And that’s where 00:11:36.000 –> 00:11:40.000 the value system comes into play. The safeguards, 00:11:40.000 –> 00:11:43.000 the safe rails, guardrails are there. 00:11:43.000 –> 00:11:45.000 To keep you 00:11:45.000 –> 00:11:45.000 centered 00:11:46.000 –> 00:11:48.000 and keep you, keep your eye on the 00:11:48.000 –> 00:11:50.000 mark, and so on, and you don’t get 00:11:50.000 –> 00:11:51.000 sidelined. 00:11:51.000 –> 00:11:54.000 Yep. So it’s, my buddy Steve went off 00:11:54.000 –> 00:11:55.000 when we were talking last night. I told 00:11:55.000 –> 00:11:57.000 him that you were coming on, and he’s 00:11:57.000 –> 00:11:59.000 a big basketball guy. And so shout out 00:11:59.000 –> 00:12:01.000 to Steve, but He’s like, how do you 00:12:01.000 –> 00:12:02.000 handle up objectivity? 00:12:03.000 –> 00:12:05.000 Surely there were some coaches or programs or 00:12:05.000 –> 00:12:07.000 players that were harder to you know, you 00:12:07.000 –> 00:12:09.000 know, they were gonna be on you the 00:12:09.000 –> 00:12:10.000 whole time. Right? And and so how did 00:12:10.000 –> 00:12:12.000 you stay objective with that of not trying 00:12:12.000 –> 00:12:14.000 to choose sides or when you go represent 00:12:14.000 –> 00:12:16.000 America to not say, I wanna, you know, 00:12:16.000 –> 00:12:18.000 I want my guys to win. The guardrails. 00:12:18.000 –> 00:12:20.000 Yep. Yeah. Again, the value system, 00:12:21.000 –> 00:12:22.000 honesty, integrity, 00:12:23.000 –> 00:12:26.000 hard work. Yeah. And, that you put those 00:12:26.000 –> 00:12:28.000 all in that, as a potpourri. 00:12:29.000 –> 00:12:31.000 Guess what’s gonna come out? Hence why you 00:12:31.000 –> 00:12:32.000 did twelve, 00:12:32.000 –> 00:12:34.000 final four. You got it. Yeah. And and, 00:12:34.000 –> 00:12:34.000 you know, 00:12:35.000 –> 00:12:38.000 coach Knight and I were very close. Yeah. 00:12:38.000 –> 00:12:39.000 A lot of people don’t know that. We 00:12:39.000 –> 00:12:40.000 talked 00:12:41.000 –> 00:12:43.000 you know, we would bump heads on the 00:12:43.000 –> 00:12:43.000 floor. 00:12:44.000 –> 00:12:45.000 But, 00:12:45.000 –> 00:12:47.000 off the floor, we would talk, 00:12:48.000 –> 00:12:49.000 we talked a lot 00:12:49.000 –> 00:12:51.000 about education, about young people, 00:12:52.000 –> 00:12:54.000 one of the smartest individuals you ever wanna 00:12:54.000 –> 00:12:55.000 be around. 00:12:56.000 –> 00:12:56.000 And, 00:12:58.000 –> 00:12:58.000 guardrails. 00:12:59.000 –> 00:12:59.000 Okay. 00:13:00.000 –> 00:13:02.000 You always know that 00:13:05.000 –> 00:13:06.000 going into that game, 00:13:08.000 –> 00:13:10.000 you have to be 00:13:11.000 –> 00:13:12.000 not subjective, 00:13:13.000 –> 00:13:16.000 but objective. You see it you call it 00:13:17.000 –> 00:13:19.000 and let the chips fall where they may. 00:13:19.000 –> 00:13:22.000 But by the same token you there to 00:13:22.000 –> 00:13:26.000 lend a hand as as to both sides. 00:13:26.000 –> 00:13:27.000 And when I say that, 00:13:28.000 –> 00:13:30.000 I would go to, say, coach Knight, for 00:13:30.000 –> 00:13:32.000 example, and say, Hey. 00:13:33.000 –> 00:13:34.000 Number fifty four, 00:13:35.000 –> 00:13:36.000 He’s got his hands on him. 00:13:37.000 –> 00:13:40.000 Yep. Now I’m telling you to take care 00:13:40.000 –> 00:13:41.000 of it. If you don’t take care of 00:13:41.000 –> 00:13:43.000 it, you’re gonna take care of it. Alright. 00:13:43.000 –> 00:13:46.000 Then you go down to the other end, 00:13:46.000 –> 00:13:47.000 Michigan State, 00:13:48.000 –> 00:13:51.000 at that time, Judd Heathco. Yeah. Are, I’m 00:13:51.000 –> 00:13:53.000 gonna tell you a little story about Lou 00:13:53.000 –> 00:13:55.000 Henson in just a moment, but 00:13:55.000 –> 00:13:57.000 you would do the same thing on the 00:13:57.000 –> 00:14:00.000 Gilliland the coaches know that. And they respect 00:14:00.000 –> 00:14:04.000 you, and they know when that game is 00:14:04.000 –> 00:14:05.000 on the line. 00:14:06.000 –> 00:14:08.000 They can trust you to do the right 00:14:08.000 –> 00:14:11.000 thing. Yeah. It goes back through what I 00:14:11.000 –> 00:14:13.000 said earlier, the right thing. 00:14:14.000 –> 00:14:16.000 Not that you you aren’t gonna make mistakes. 00:14:17.000 –> 00:14:19.000 Not that you you aren’t gonna miss a 00:14:19.000 –> 00:14:19.000 call, 00:14:20.000 –> 00:14:23.000 but they trust you to do the right 00:14:23.000 –> 00:14:23.000 thing. 00:14:24.000 –> 00:14:26.000 Lou Henson played a very, 00:14:27.000 –> 00:14:30.000 important role in Ed Hightower getting to the 00:14:30.000 –> 00:14:31.000 big ten, and I never knew about it 00:14:31.000 –> 00:14:32.000 until 00:14:32.000 –> 00:14:35.000 six years after I was in the big 00:14:35.000 –> 00:14:37.000 ten, after I became a crew chief. 00:14:39.000 –> 00:14:42.000 Lou Henson was in this area, recruiting. 00:14:43.000 –> 00:14:45.000 Saw me referee in a high school basketball 00:14:45.000 –> 00:14:46.000 game. 00:14:48.000 –> 00:14:49.000 Called a big ten, 00:14:50.000 –> 00:14:52.000 Wow. The next day and said, I mean, 00:14:52.000 –> 00:14:52.000 tell you, 00:14:53.000 –> 00:14:55.000 I saw this young African American. 00:14:56.000 –> 00:14:58.000 He is gonna be good. 00:14:59.000 –> 00:15:01.000 You need to get someone down there and 00:15:01.000 –> 00:15:03.000 take a look at this guy and start 00:15:03.000 –> 00:15:07.000 tracking him. He’s gonna be good. And somebody 00:15:07.000 –> 00:15:10.000 is gonna get him. Another league is gonna 00:15:10.000 –> 00:15:13.000 get him, you need to take a look. 00:15:13.000 –> 00:15:15.000 Well, lo and behold, 00:15:15.000 –> 00:15:16.000 I’m twenty 00:15:16.000 –> 00:15:19.000 five years old. I go to my first 00:15:19.000 –> 00:15:21.000 camp at Michigan State, Big Ten Camp. 00:15:24.000 –> 00:15:26.000 Out of a hundred and ten 00:15:26.000 –> 00:15:27.000 campers, 00:15:28.000 –> 00:15:29.000 they only took two 00:15:32.000 –> 00:15:32.000 campers 00:15:33.000 –> 00:15:35.000 and added us to what they used to 00:15:35.000 –> 00:15:38.000 call in the Big Ten, our satellite crew. 00:15:38.000 –> 00:15:40.000 That was the 00:15:40.000 –> 00:15:41.000 officials 00:15:41.000 –> 00:15:44.000 that they would hire at that time at 00:15:44.000 –> 00:15:46.000 a Western Illinois university, which was a division 00:15:46.000 –> 00:15:48.000 two Eastern 00:15:48.000 –> 00:15:49.000 Northern Iowa 00:15:50.000 –> 00:15:53.000 Okay? And they would track your experience. 00:15:53.000 –> 00:15:56.000 You got it. Yeah. And then from that 00:15:56.000 –> 00:15:56.000 point, 00:15:57.000 –> 00:15:59.000 two years later, 00:16:01.000 –> 00:16:03.000 the supervisor of the Big Ten called the 00:16:03.000 –> 00:16:05.000 Missouri Valley and said, look, 00:16:06.000 –> 00:16:08.000 we’ve got this young kid And again, I 00:16:08.000 –> 00:16:10.000 don’t know this at the time. I know, 00:16:10.000 –> 00:16:12.000 as they say, I know nothing. 00:16:12.000 –> 00:16:15.000 He’s getting the Gilliland security. Exactly. 00:16:15.000 –> 00:16:16.000 So, 00:16:17.000 –> 00:16:20.000 I was at, I was selected to do 00:16:20.000 –> 00:16:22.000 the National Jukot Tournament. 00:16:23.000 –> 00:16:25.000 I am now twenty 00:16:25.000 –> 00:16:26.000 seven years old. 00:16:27.000 –> 00:16:30.000 The National Duke Oak tournament in Hutchison, Kansas. 00:16:31.000 –> 00:16:32.000 And, 00:16:32.000 –> 00:16:33.000 Johnny Overbe, 00:16:33.000 –> 00:16:35.000 who was the Missouri Valley, 00:16:36.000 –> 00:16:37.000 supervisor. 00:16:38.000 –> 00:16:40.000 I didn’t know he was at the game. 00:16:40.000 –> 00:16:44.000 He sat and watch me work for three 00:16:44.000 –> 00:16:45.000 days in a row. 00:16:46.000 –> 00:16:46.000 Okay. 00:16:47.000 –> 00:16:47.000 And, 00:16:48.000 –> 00:16:48.000 with that, 00:16:51.000 –> 00:16:54.000 He came in that third night after the 00:16:54.000 –> 00:16:55.000 game and said, I’ve watched you, 00:16:56.000 –> 00:16:57.000 three days. 00:16:58.000 –> 00:17:00.000 I wanna bring you into the Missouri Valley. 00:17:01.000 –> 00:17:03.000 Brought me into the Missouri Valley. 00:17:04.000 –> 00:17:09.000 You know, I fool some Gilliland, 00:17:10.000 –> 00:17:12.000 I worked there two years in the Missouri 00:17:12.000 –> 00:17:14.000 Gilliland then a big ten, 00:17:15.000 –> 00:17:15.000 set at, 00:17:16.000 –> 00:17:18.000 I We’re gonna bring you and put you 00:17:18.000 –> 00:17:20.000 on a crew. So they put me on 00:17:20.000 –> 00:17:22.000 a crew at twenty nine years old 00:17:22.000 –> 00:17:24.000 on a now you think about this. 00:17:24.000 –> 00:17:25.000 Now, 00:17:26.000 –> 00:17:27.000 That’s young. That young? 00:17:28.000 –> 00:17:31.000 Yeah. That is too young. Okay. That’s Okay. 00:17:31.000 –> 00:17:32.000 T 00:17:32.000 –> 00:17:35.000 o o, too young. Right. 00:17:35.000 –> 00:17:38.000 And, but I was very fortunate. 00:17:40.000 –> 00:17:42.000 I walked in and let me tell you, 00:17:43.000 –> 00:17:44.000 you think you’re ready. 00:17:45.000 –> 00:17:47.000 Well, you find quickly when you walk into 00:17:47.000 –> 00:17:49.000 an Illinois and you’ve got fourteen thousand 00:17:50.000 –> 00:17:54.000 crazies there on crosses on you majorly. 00:17:55.000 –> 00:17:57.000 Or you go to Gilliland, 00:17:57.000 –> 00:17:59.000 and you got sixteen thousand people there, a 00:17:59.000 –> 00:18:02.000 sea of red. Yeah. And at that time, 00:18:02.000 –> 00:18:03.000 you know, coach Hightower was just like a 00:18:03.000 –> 00:18:07.000 giant. He was a giant in the game 00:18:07.000 –> 00:18:08.000 and a big man 00:18:09.000 –> 00:18:11.000 to to boot. I had seen him on 00:18:11.000 –> 00:18:14.000 TV, but I did not know him. 00:18:14.000 –> 00:18:17.000 Okay? Mhmm. So I go out there, but 00:18:17.000 –> 00:18:18.000 I had been told 00:18:18.000 –> 00:18:19.000 by, 00:18:20.000 –> 00:18:20.000 another, 00:18:21.000 –> 00:18:22.000 prominent 00:18:23.000 –> 00:18:25.000 veteran referee. His name was Jim Bane. Oh 00:18:25.000 –> 00:18:27.000 my gosh. That’s so crazy. See, you’re not 00:18:27.000 –> 00:18:29.000 gonna believe this. I thought you’re gonna say 00:18:29.000 –> 00:18:30.000 this. He was my neighbor growing up in 00:18:30.000 –> 00:18:33.000 Matune, Illinois. Are you kidding me? Oh my 00:18:33.000 –> 00:18:36.000 gosh. Well, Jim Baine was my mentor. He’s 00:18:36.000 –> 00:18:38.000 literally one of the things I was gonna 00:18:38.000 –> 00:18:40.000 bring Jim. Jim Bane. Yeah. Jim Bane, 00:18:41.000 –> 00:18:44.000 Matune. You’re Hightower. Banker and all, well, Jim 00:18:44.000 –> 00:18:46.000 and I. Jim and I used to fly. 00:18:46.000 –> 00:18:47.000 So funny. Jim was a pilot. 00:18:48.000 –> 00:18:51.000 At one time. I leased an airplane, 00:18:51.000 –> 00:18:54.000 and had someone flying me around. And we 00:18:54.000 –> 00:18:56.000 would hook up. I’d go to Decatur, pick 00:18:56.000 –> 00:18:58.000 him up, depending on where we’re going. But 00:18:58.000 –> 00:18:59.000 the 00:19:00.000 –> 00:19:00.000 the the 00:19:01.000 –> 00:19:02.000 he 00:19:02.000 –> 00:19:03.000 initiation 00:19:03.000 –> 00:19:04.000 to the big ten, 00:19:05.000 –> 00:19:05.000 Jim 00:19:06.000 –> 00:19:07.000 I talk I would talk to him all 00:19:07.000 –> 00:19:09.000 of the time. And I said, Jim, tell 00:19:09.000 –> 00:19:11.000 me, how do you heal 00:19:12.000 –> 00:19:13.000 a coach knight? 00:19:14.000 –> 00:19:15.000 How do you heal? 00:19:16.000 –> 00:19:17.000 And he says, and he used to call 00:19:17.000 –> 00:19:18.000 me Eddie. Eddie, 00:19:20.000 –> 00:19:21.000 coach Knight, 00:19:22.000 –> 00:19:23.000 he’s gonna test you 00:19:24.000 –> 00:19:26.000 when you first get in a big ten. 00:19:26.000 –> 00:19:27.000 You could take it to the bank. 00:19:28.000 –> 00:19:31.000 Judd Heathcoat is gonna test you 00:19:31.000 –> 00:19:33.000 when you Yeah. 00:19:34.000 –> 00:19:35.000 Get to one of his games. 00:19:36.000 –> 00:19:38.000 He says, not coach knight. It’s gonna say 00:19:38.000 –> 00:19:41.000 something to you. It may be religious. 00:19:42.000 –> 00:19:44.000 It may be political Gilliland 00:19:44.000 –> 00:19:44.000 it. 00:19:45.000 –> 00:19:46.000 He may say something, 00:19:47.000 –> 00:19:48.000 racially. 00:19:48.000 –> 00:19:50.000 Oh my god. Because he wants to see 00:19:50.000 –> 00:19:51.000 how you’re gonna react. 00:19:52.000 –> 00:19:54.000 How thick is the man you have? Don’t 00:19:54.000 –> 00:19:55.000 react. 00:19:55.000 –> 00:19:56.000 And he says, 00:19:57.000 –> 00:20:00.000 all of these coaches in their own way 00:20:00.000 –> 00:20:02.000 will test you and here’s why. 00:20:03.000 –> 00:20:05.000 They’re not concerned 00:20:05.000 –> 00:20:06.000 about you 00:20:06.000 –> 00:20:07.000 at home. 00:20:09.000 –> 00:20:13.000 They’re concerned about you when Indiana goes to 00:20:13.000 –> 00:20:13.000 Purdue. 00:20:14.000 –> 00:20:17.000 And that fifteen thousand people are there 00:20:18.000 –> 00:20:19.000 at Machia Arena. 00:20:20.000 –> 00:20:21.000 Or when he goes to Illinois, 00:20:22.000 –> 00:20:25.000 and they’ve got the fourteen thousand people are 00:20:25.000 –> 00:20:26.000 so there. 00:20:26.000 –> 00:20:29.000 They are They wanna know how you’re gonna 00:20:29.000 –> 00:20:30.000 behave on the road. 00:20:31.000 –> 00:20:34.000 So I get asked this story often. What 00:20:34.000 –> 00:20:36.000 was the first thing coach and I said 00:20:36.000 –> 00:20:36.000 to you? 00:20:37.000 –> 00:20:37.000 So, 00:20:38.000 –> 00:20:39.000 this young cat, 00:20:40.000 –> 00:20:43.000 twenty eight years old, I walk out there 00:20:43.000 –> 00:20:44.000 on the floor. 00:20:45.000 –> 00:20:46.000 We get there. We have to be there 00:20:46.000 –> 00:20:48.000 an hour and a half before game time. 00:20:48.000 –> 00:20:50.000 Nobody’s in the arena. 00:20:51.000 –> 00:20:52.000 Then we have to walk out on the 00:20:52.000 –> 00:20:55.000 floor. Thirty minutes before game time. 00:20:56.000 –> 00:20:58.000 We walk out there thirty minutes before game 00:20:58.000 –> 00:21:00.000 time. There’s just a sea of red, sixteen 00:21:00.000 –> 00:21:03.000 thousand people, sea of red. 00:21:03.000 –> 00:21:05.000 And then coach Hightower 00:21:05.000 –> 00:21:08.000 at that time, he would normally come out 00:21:08.000 –> 00:21:09.000 a minute before the game. 00:21:10.000 –> 00:21:11.000 That was his demo. 00:21:12.000 –> 00:21:12.000 Well, 00:21:13.000 –> 00:21:15.000 He knew that he had this young, 00:21:17.000 –> 00:21:18.000 young official. 00:21:19.000 –> 00:21:21.000 He comes out about two and a half 00:21:21.000 –> 00:21:22.000 minutes before game time. 00:21:23.000 –> 00:21:26.000 The sea the the the the fans, they 00:21:26.000 –> 00:21:27.000 stand 00:21:27.000 –> 00:21:30.000 held to the king, held to the king. 00:21:30.000 –> 00:21:32.000 And so he walks by. 00:21:33.000 –> 00:21:36.000 The three officials. He goes down shakes hands 00:21:37.000 –> 00:21:39.000 with the, shake hand with the, 00:21:39.000 –> 00:21:42.000 opposing coach. Yeah. So he comes back and 00:21:42.000 –> 00:21:44.000 I’m just I I’m so scared. 00:21:44.000 –> 00:21:46.000 I am so scared to Shamkia because he, 00:21:47.000 –> 00:21:49.000 you know, all of the history 00:21:50.000 –> 00:21:53.000 throwing chairs, screaming yelling, you know, but just 00:21:53.000 –> 00:21:55.000 just just his m o, you know, just, 00:21:55.000 –> 00:21:57.000 you know, he was he was a national 00:21:57.000 –> 00:21:58.000 figure. 00:21:59.000 –> 00:22:00.000 So he goes down 00:22:00.000 –> 00:22:04.000 and he gets about six inches. His rear 00:22:04.000 –> 00:22:06.000 end from hitting his seat. 00:22:06.000 –> 00:22:08.000 And he comes back, and he gets right 00:22:08.000 –> 00:22:09.000 in my face. 00:22:10.000 –> 00:22:11.000 And he says, 00:22:12.000 –> 00:22:14.000 I hope you’re not tonight when I get 00:22:14.000 –> 00:22:16.000 on you. Oh. 00:22:16.000 –> 00:22:18.000 It’s gonna be, 00:22:18.000 –> 00:22:21.000 chewing that, and you can fill fill in 00:22:21.000 –> 00:22:22.000 the words. 00:22:22.000 –> 00:22:24.000 That you’ve never 00:22:24.000 –> 00:22:26.000 this is what it gave. And the fans 00:22:26.000 –> 00:22:27.000 are eating it up. 00:22:28.000 –> 00:22:30.000 Yeah. The fans are eating it up. 00:22:30.000 –> 00:22:32.000 This will be a chewing like you’ve never 00:22:32.000 –> 00:22:34.000 had before. Yeah. Welcome 00:22:35.000 –> 00:22:36.000 to the Big Ten. 00:22:37.000 –> 00:22:39.000 Now you think about that for a moment. 00:22:39.000 –> 00:22:41.000 And now, so that was my 00:22:42.000 –> 00:22:42.000 intro 00:22:43.000 –> 00:22:44.000 to coach Knight. 00:22:45.000 –> 00:22:48.000 Well, I in talking with Jim, Jim said 00:22:48.000 –> 00:22:51.000 Listen. The way you hail a coach knight, 00:22:51.000 –> 00:22:53.000 you don’t you you hail him the same 00:22:53.000 –> 00:22:54.000 way I want you to handle every other 00:22:54.000 –> 00:22:55.000 coach. 00:22:56.000 –> 00:22:59.000 You when you get near the coach where 00:22:59.000 –> 00:23:01.000 he’s standing, get out on the floor. 00:23:02.000 –> 00:23:02.000 And then 00:23:03.000 –> 00:23:05.000 when you start to go back down the 00:23:05.000 –> 00:23:07.000 floor, you go. You don’t you don’t linger. 00:23:08.000 –> 00:23:09.000 Doing a time out. 00:23:10.000 –> 00:23:12.000 Get out on the floor. You don’t need 00:23:12.000 –> 00:23:14.000 to and I I get angry now when 00:23:14.000 –> 00:23:16.000 I see these officials standing over their body 00:23:16.000 –> 00:23:17.000 coaches. 00:23:17.000 –> 00:23:20.000 They are not there to be your friend. 00:23:20.000 –> 00:23:22.000 They don’t give you candy. 00:23:23.000 –> 00:23:26.000 And they’re not handing out candy. No. So 00:23:26.000 –> 00:23:27.000 bottom line, 00:23:27.000 –> 00:23:30.000 I always adopt at that. I and that 00:23:30.000 –> 00:23:30.000 was my, 00:23:32.000 –> 00:23:34.000 way of Helen Coaches. Now 00:23:35.000 –> 00:23:36.000 the next game, 00:23:36.000 –> 00:23:39.000 I’ve got conference game. Uh-oh. 00:23:39.000 –> 00:23:40.000 I’ve got 00:23:41.000 –> 00:23:42.000 Judd Heathcote 00:23:43.000 –> 00:23:45.000 at Iowa against 00:23:46.000 –> 00:23:47.000 Lou 00:23:47.000 –> 00:23:47.000 lutosin. 00:23:48.000 –> 00:23:49.000 Yeah. Okay. 00:23:50.000 –> 00:23:53.000 He was there. Apartment? I forgot he was 00:23:53.000 –> 00:23:55.000 there. Yeah. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. They had 00:23:55.000 –> 00:23:56.000 just opened Okay. Carver, 00:23:57.000 –> 00:23:59.000 hawk iron. Yeah. Okay. 00:23:59.000 –> 00:24:00.000 So now 00:24:00.000 –> 00:24:02.000 Think about this for a moment. 00:24:04.000 –> 00:24:05.000 The Iowa fans, they 00:24:07.000 –> 00:24:08.000 are rabbit. 00:24:09.000 –> 00:24:11.000 Because again, and I will think about it. 00:24:11.000 –> 00:24:13.000 There there there are no major league sports. 00:24:13.000 –> 00:24:16.000 It’s it’s just all this is the big 00:24:16.000 –> 00:24:18.000 deal. This is the big leagues as they 00:24:18.000 –> 00:24:18.000 call it. 00:24:19.000 –> 00:24:21.000 Judd Heat heat coat 00:24:22.000 –> 00:24:24.000 didn’t like young officials 00:24:25.000 –> 00:24:28.000 because he could not trust them. And I 00:24:28.000 –> 00:24:29.000 and I and I understand why now as 00:24:29.000 –> 00:24:32.000 I as I got into it, I I 00:24:32.000 –> 00:24:34.000 I quickly learned that. But again, 00:24:35.000 –> 00:24:38.000 same thing. Jim said, Ed, 00:24:38.000 –> 00:24:40.000 he’s gonna say something to you. 00:24:41.000 –> 00:24:44.000 Just let it go. So we go out 00:24:44.000 –> 00:24:44.000 there. 00:24:44.000 –> 00:24:46.000 I’m working with this veteran referee. 00:24:48.000 –> 00:24:50.000 This veteran referee in the first five minutes 00:24:50.000 –> 00:24:53.000 he makes three of the worst calls in 00:24:53.000 –> 00:24:54.000 America. 00:24:56.000 –> 00:24:59.000 Michigan two against Michigan State One against Iowa. 00:24:59.000 –> 00:25:02.000 Neither one of the coaches said a word. 00:25:03.000 –> 00:25:04.000 Neither one of the coaches. 00:25:04.000 –> 00:25:05.000 So now, 00:25:06.000 –> 00:25:08.000 it Hightower when he finally gets enough 00:25:08.000 –> 00:25:09.000 nerve 00:25:10.000 –> 00:25:11.000 to blow his whistle. 00:25:12.000 –> 00:25:14.000 I make my first call after about ten 00:25:14.000 –> 00:25:16.000 minutes. It’s the right call. Yeah. 00:25:17.000 –> 00:25:20.000 Judd Heath Coach, and it’s the correct call. 00:25:20.000 –> 00:25:22.000 Judd Heath Coach. 00:25:24.000 –> 00:25:25.000 Jumped up. 00:25:25.000 –> 00:25:26.000 And 00:25:26.000 –> 00:25:28.000 so I said, I knew it. 00:25:30.000 –> 00:25:32.000 Richard, where did this young kid come from? 00:25:32.000 –> 00:25:34.000 You will never make it. I’m gonna make 00:25:34.000 –> 00:25:36.000 sure you’re fired from the big ten. Oh 00:25:36.000 –> 00:25:39.000 my. You can’t make it. So we get 00:25:39.000 –> 00:25:40.000 through the game. Let me tell you. 00:25:41.000 –> 00:25:43.000 Doing the right thing, 00:25:43.000 –> 00:25:45.000 even when it’s unpopular. 00:25:46.000 –> 00:25:48.000 Michigan State is on the road. 00:25:49.000 –> 00:25:52.000 The last play of the game. 00:25:52.000 –> 00:25:56.000 I’m on national TV, CBS, Billy Packer is 00:25:56.000 –> 00:25:57.000 doing the game. 00:25:57.000 –> 00:25:59.000 There’s an out of bounds play. 00:26:00.000 –> 00:26:03.000 It’s my call. It’s right on the sideline. 00:26:04.000 –> 00:26:05.000 The coach, 00:26:06.000 –> 00:26:08.000 heat code could see it certainly 00:26:09.000 –> 00:26:11.000 Iowa could see it lead house. 00:26:12.000 –> 00:26:13.000 Now, the kid barely, 00:26:14.000 –> 00:26:16.000 barely stepped on the sideline. 00:26:18.000 –> 00:26:20.000 I could have easily said 00:26:21.000 –> 00:26:23.000 I didn’t see that call. 00:26:25.000 –> 00:26:26.000 I could have said that. 00:26:27.000 –> 00:26:29.000 Do the right thing, even when it’s not 00:26:30.000 –> 00:26:31.000 poplar. Yep. 00:26:32.000 –> 00:26:33.000 Boom is a great advice. 00:26:34.000 –> 00:26:35.000 Made the call. 00:26:36.000 –> 00:26:38.000 Iowa lost a game by one. 00:26:39.000 –> 00:26:41.000 John Heathco jumps up, 00:26:42.000 –> 00:26:45.000 great call. Now wait, he’s the same guy. 00:26:45.000 –> 00:26:47.000 The whole game that was saying you’ll never 00:26:47.000 –> 00:26:49.000 make it. You’re thinking part. 00:26:50.000 –> 00:26:50.000 And 00:26:51.000 –> 00:26:52.000 I made the right call 00:26:53.000 –> 00:26:54.000 from that point, 00:26:55.000 –> 00:26:58.000 individual, the coaches in the Big Ten, and 00:26:58.000 –> 00:27:00.000 Across the country began to say, who is 00:27:00.000 –> 00:27:02.000 this young kid? Yeah. 00:27:02.000 –> 00:27:04.000 I referred my first final four at thirty 00:27:04.000 –> 00:27:05.000 four years old. 00:27:06.000 –> 00:27:09.000 I worked seven final fours in a row. 00:27:09.000 –> 00:27:12.000 Holy smokes. In a row. That’s not normal. 00:27:12.000 –> 00:27:14.000 Not normal. You go back. I I think 00:27:14.000 –> 00:27:16.000 that’s the time has been done in the 00:27:16.000 –> 00:27:17.000 history of the game. That’s amazing. 00:27:18.000 –> 00:27:19.000 So it again, 00:27:19.000 –> 00:27:22.000 the story that I tell young people 00:27:22.000 –> 00:27:24.000 do the right thing even when it’s not 00:27:24.000 –> 00:27:24.000 popular. 00:27:26.000 –> 00:27:29.000 Do the right thing when people aren’t watching 00:27:29.000 –> 00:27:30.000 you. 00:27:31.000 –> 00:27:33.000 That’s the value system 00:27:33.000 –> 00:27:34.000 that 00:27:35.000 –> 00:27:38.000 you want to build your life around. 00:27:39.000 –> 00:27:40.000 You can’t please everyone. 00:27:41.000 –> 00:27:42.000 I’ve as superintendent. 00:27:42.000 –> 00:27:43.000 Yeah. 00:27:44.000 –> 00:27:46.000 Okay. I never tried to please. 00:27:47.000 –> 00:27:48.000 My employees, 00:27:50.000 –> 00:27:51.000 every decision that I made, 00:27:52.000 –> 00:27:53.000 I made it 00:27:54.000 –> 00:27:56.000 and the interests of the young people. 00:27:57.000 –> 00:28:00.000 Every decision when I refereed, I made it 00:28:00.000 –> 00:28:01.000 in the best interests 00:28:02.000 –> 00:28:03.000 of those players. 00:28:04.000 –> 00:28:05.000 And I would tell him upfront. 00:28:06.000 –> 00:28:08.000 I’m gonna tell you one time to get 00:28:08.000 –> 00:28:09.000 your shirt tail in. 00:28:10.000 –> 00:28:13.000 You’re not this is my game, you’re not 00:28:13.000 –> 00:28:15.000 gonna be walking around with your shirt tail 00:28:15.000 –> 00:28:16.000 out. 00:28:17.000 –> 00:28:18.000 I’m gonna tell you if I tell you 00:28:18.000 –> 00:28:19.000 to get your hands 00:28:21.000 –> 00:28:24.000 off, I’m trying to help you. Yeah. But 00:28:24.000 –> 00:28:26.000 I’m not gonna keep trust me. I’m not 00:28:26.000 –> 00:28:29.000 gonna keep telling you that. Yeah. And that’s 00:28:29.000 –> 00:28:31.000 the That was the relationship I had with 00:28:31.000 –> 00:28:32.000 coaches. 00:28:33.000 –> 00:28:35.000 I would throw my hand up, and when 00:28:35.000 –> 00:28:37.000 I said, this is it. I would listen. 00:28:37.000 –> 00:28:38.000 I never had rabbit ears. 00:28:39.000 –> 00:28:41.000 I would listen to coaches when they griped 00:28:41.000 –> 00:28:42.000 and complained. 00:28:43.000 –> 00:28:44.000 Because, you know, 00:28:44.000 –> 00:28:46.000 I had the philosophy 00:28:47.000 –> 00:28:48.000 I’m not always right. 00:28:49.000 –> 00:28:51.000 I’m not always right. 00:28:51.000 –> 00:28:52.000 And if I 00:28:53.000 –> 00:28:54.000 don’t react, 00:28:55.000 –> 00:28:57.000 But give that coach an opportunity to disagree 00:28:57.000 –> 00:29:00.000 with me, and he goes and looks at 00:29:00.000 –> 00:29:02.000 the film, he’s gonna come back and say, 00:29:02.000 –> 00:29:03.000 you know what? 00:29:04.000 –> 00:29:06.000 That that guy was Hightower, and, you know, 00:29:07.000 –> 00:29:08.000 he treated me with respect. 00:29:10.000 –> 00:29:10.000 Okay? 00:29:10.000 –> 00:29:13.000 But when I throw my hand up, and 00:29:13.000 –> 00:29:15.000 I’m the guy that started 00:29:15.000 –> 00:29:18.000 that put made this a national mechanic, when 00:29:18.000 –> 00:29:19.000 I do this, 00:29:20.000 –> 00:29:22.000 That’s it. Don’t say another word. This is 00:29:22.000 –> 00:29:23.000 your warning. That’s it. 00:29:24.000 –> 00:29:26.000 And that’s how I’ve lived my life, you 00:29:26.000 –> 00:29:26.000 know. 00:29:27.000 –> 00:29:29.000 I believe in second chance. 00:29:29.000 –> 00:29:31.000 For young people, 00:29:32.000 –> 00:29:34.000 people in general. Yeah. But I’m not gonna 00:29:34.000 –> 00:29:37.000 keep giving you chance after chance. I love 00:29:37.000 –> 00:29:38.000 that. So so what I mean, you made 00:29:38.000 –> 00:29:40.000 a ton of calls. Right? Obviously, in a 00:29:40.000 –> 00:29:43.000 in a thirty six year career, but not 00:29:43.000 –> 00:29:44.000 every one of them was the right call. 00:29:44.000 –> 00:29:45.000 So what did you do when you did 00:29:45.000 –> 00:29:47.000 mess up and missed a call? If I 00:29:47.000 –> 00:29:50.000 missed a call, and I would go in, 00:29:50.000 –> 00:29:52.000 when it was even not poplar, I’d go 00:29:52.000 –> 00:29:54.000 down I’d go and break down every 00:29:55.000 –> 00:29:56.000 every call 00:29:56.000 –> 00:29:58.000 that I So after the game. After the 00:29:58.000 –> 00:30:00.000 game. And do you wanna do a makeup 00:30:00.000 –> 00:30:01.000 call? No. No makeup. 00:30:02.000 –> 00:30:04.000 If I missed a call during the game, 00:30:04.000 –> 00:30:05.000 let me tell you what I would do. 00:30:05.000 –> 00:30:07.000 I would tell the coach coach. That’s on 00:30:07.000 –> 00:30:10.000 me. I missed that call. Yeah. 00:30:10.000 –> 00:30:12.000 I missed it. I would tell a player, 00:30:12.000 –> 00:30:14.000 but I’m not gonna keep It does make 00:30:14.000 –> 00:30:15.000 you feel better, though. I mean, we just 00:30:15.000 –> 00:30:17.000 I coach eighth grade basketball right now, and 00:30:17.000 –> 00:30:19.000 a ref the other night so that he 00:30:19.000 –> 00:30:20.000 goes, hey, Sorry. I missed that. You took 00:30:20.000 –> 00:30:22.000 ownership. And I’m like, you know what? What 00:30:22.000 –> 00:30:23.000 do you say? You know, and that and 00:30:23.000 –> 00:30:25.000 that’s the bottom line. That’s the bottom line. 00:30:25.000 –> 00:30:26.000 You know, don’t 00:30:27.000 –> 00:30:29.000 you you don’t need to alibi. You don’t 00:30:29.000 –> 00:30:30.000 need to make excuses. 00:30:30.000 –> 00:30:32.000 You don’t need to try to justify it. 00:30:32.000 –> 00:30:34.000 I missed a call. Yep. Our coach, and 00:30:34.000 –> 00:30:37.000 I tell young people when I’m working with 00:30:37.000 –> 00:30:37.000 them. 00:30:38.000 –> 00:30:40.000 Just say coach, you may be right. 00:30:40.000 –> 00:30:42.000 Even you know that 00:30:44.000 –> 00:30:45.000 you got it right. Yeah. Just say coach, 00:30:45.000 –> 00:30:46.000 you may be right. 00:30:46.000 –> 00:30:48.000 Because you’re not gonna win that moment when 00:30:48.000 –> 00:30:48.000 the temperature is high. Yeah. You’ve gotta bring 00:30:48.000 –> 00:30:49.000 the 00:30:49.000 –> 00:30:50.000 temp 00:30:56.000 –> 00:30:58.000 down. Coach, you may be right. You may 00:30:58.000 –> 00:31:00.000 be right. I didn’t say you were. That’s 00:31:00.000 –> 00:31:02.000 right. You may be right. Okay. 00:31:03.000 –> 00:31:05.000 Dean Smith was one of my, 00:31:07.000 –> 00:31:08.000 all time favorite coaches. 00:31:09.000 –> 00:31:10.000 I can’t remember we were doing a game 00:31:10.000 –> 00:31:11.000 with him 00:31:11.000 –> 00:31:12.000 And, 00:31:12.000 –> 00:31:13.000 we, 00:31:13.000 –> 00:31:15.000 one of my crew members missed a call 00:31:15.000 –> 00:31:17.000 so bad. I was a late referee, and 00:31:17.000 –> 00:31:19.000 I could I could not get him this 00:31:19.000 –> 00:31:21.000 I could not get 00:31:21.000 –> 00:31:22.000 this official 00:31:22.000 –> 00:31:24.000 to change the call. 00:31:24.000 –> 00:31:26.000 I tried to get him 00:31:27.000 –> 00:31:29.000 I called Dean Smith in stay as a 00:31:29.000 –> 00:31:30.000 coach, I I I have to, 00:31:31.000 –> 00:31:32.000 I I have to be able to live 00:31:32.000 –> 00:31:34.000 with myself. We missed that call. 00:31:34.000 –> 00:31:37.000 That was the respect that I, coach, 00:31:38.000 –> 00:31:39.000 when I received my doctorate, 00:31:40.000 –> 00:31:41.000 there were 00:31:41.000 –> 00:31:42.000 two people 00:31:43.000 –> 00:31:44.000 who reached out to me right away, and 00:31:44.000 –> 00:31:46.000 I don’t know how they found out. 00:31:46.000 –> 00:31:49.000 And congratulating me on my doctorate of education. 00:31:50.000 –> 00:31:51.000 Dean Smith, 00:31:52.000 –> 00:31:53.000 John Thompson. Wow. 00:31:54.000 –> 00:31:56.000 I think about that. Now, and and and 00:31:56.000 –> 00:31:59.000 the bottom line, see, I was not refereeing 00:31:59.000 –> 00:32:00.000 those guys 00:32:01.000 –> 00:32:01.000 consistently 00:32:02.000 –> 00:32:03.000 like what I was in the Big Ten, 00:32:03.000 –> 00:32:05.000 I would only catch those guys, 00:32:06.000 –> 00:32:08.000 in tournament play or when the ACC played 00:32:08.000 –> 00:32:11.000 the Big Ten. Yep. But they they watch. 00:32:12.000 –> 00:32:12.000 They 00:32:13.000 –> 00:32:15.000 they know who the who the good officials 00:32:15.000 –> 00:32:17.000 are. And they know 00:32:17.000 –> 00:32:18.000 every officials 00:32:21.000 –> 00:32:23.000 breaking point. Yeah. 00:32:23.000 –> 00:32:25.000 How how did you stay a student of 00:32:25.000 –> 00:32:27.000 the game in education and basketball? Because you 00:32:27.000 –> 00:32:29.000 really think about it. You’re you’re growing two 00:32:29.000 –> 00:32:32.000 careers parallel at the same time. Right? You’re 00:32:32.000 –> 00:32:33.000 growing two 00:32:34.000 –> 00:32:35.000 careers parallel. 00:32:38.000 –> 00:32:40.000 You you don’t change. 00:32:40.000 –> 00:32:41.000 Okay. 00:32:41.000 –> 00:32:44.000 And how do you raise there’s so many 00:32:44.000 –> 00:32:46.000 things as I talk to various groups I 00:32:46.000 –> 00:32:47.000 get a question 00:32:48.000 –> 00:32:49.000 on a regular basis. 00:32:49.000 –> 00:32:52.000 How are you able to keep all keep 00:32:52.000 –> 00:32:53.000 the three 00:32:54.000 –> 00:32:54.000 entities, 00:32:56.000 –> 00:32:57.000 together, 00:32:57.000 –> 00:32:59.000 and those entities 00:32:59.000 –> 00:33:00.000 of family. 00:33:02.000 –> 00:33:05.000 My professional job as an educator 00:33:06.000 –> 00:33:07.000 and my, 00:33:08.000 –> 00:33:09.000 my referee in. 00:33:11.000 –> 00:33:12.000 You don’t change. 00:33:13.000 –> 00:33:14.000 First of all, family 00:33:15.000 –> 00:33:18.000 is more important than anything else. 00:33:19.000 –> 00:33:21.000 My wife and I’ve been married forty nine 00:33:21.000 –> 00:33:22.000 years. We have two daughters, 00:33:23.000 –> 00:33:24.000 both successful. 00:33:25.000 –> 00:33:27.000 And as I was rear we were rearing 00:33:27.000 –> 00:33:30.000 our kids, both of our kids went to 00:33:30.000 –> 00:33:32.000 my school. We always believe in 00:33:33.000 –> 00:33:34.000 quality over quantity. 00:33:37.000 –> 00:33:38.000 Quality over quantity. 00:33:39.000 –> 00:33:42.000 Quality time over quantity. There are people who 00:33:42.000 –> 00:33:43.000 are together twenty four hours a day and 00:33:43.000 –> 00:33:46.000 can’t stand each other. Hightower 00:33:46.000 –> 00:33:48.000 my daughters knew, 00:33:48.000 –> 00:33:50.000 and even today, 00:33:51.000 –> 00:33:52.000 if they want me at something, 00:33:54.000 –> 00:33:57.000 They, whenever younger, they’d go in, tell my 00:33:57.000 –> 00:33:57.000 secretary, 00:33:58.000 –> 00:34:00.000 which you put this on debts. 00:34:01.000 –> 00:34:02.000 Scheduled. 00:34:03.000 –> 00:34:04.000 If they wrote it on there, 00:34:05.000 –> 00:34:07.000 it was important to them. Yeah. Now, they 00:34:07.000 –> 00:34:09.000 knew that they could go in there and 00:34:09.000 –> 00:34:11.000 write every day, you you know, you want 00:34:11.000 –> 00:34:14.000 me here. Yeah. You know, you gotta share 00:34:14.000 –> 00:34:14.000 me. 00:34:14.000 –> 00:34:17.000 But if they put something on my calendar 00:34:17.000 –> 00:34:19.000 and I had a game, Guess what? 00:34:20.000 –> 00:34:22.000 No. I got off that game. Yeah. It 00:34:22.000 –> 00:34:23.000 was family. 00:34:25.000 –> 00:34:28.000 Now, decision making, I’m in the decision making 00:34:28.000 –> 00:34:31.000 business in education. I’m in a decision making 00:34:31.000 –> 00:34:32.000 business, 00:34:33.000 –> 00:34:35.000 in referring. Yeah. By the 00:34:36.000 –> 00:34:39.000 Every second, you’re making a decision on someone’s 00:34:39.000 –> 00:34:40.000 livelihood. 00:34:41.000 –> 00:34:42.000 In education, 00:34:44.000 –> 00:34:44.000 It’s about 00:34:45.000 –> 00:34:45.000 educating 00:34:46.000 –> 00:34:48.000 kids for the next, 00:34:49.000 –> 00:34:51.000 step of their, next step in their life. 00:34:52.000 –> 00:34:53.000 Referin? 00:34:54.000 –> 00:34:56.000 I’m working with kids, and I’m making decisions 00:34:56.000 –> 00:34:57.000 about their careers. 00:34:58.000 –> 00:34:59.000 I can put them on the bench with 00:34:59.000 –> 00:35:02.000 a chief foul or a bad cough. Yep. 00:35:02.000 –> 00:35:03.000 And at the wrong time, 00:35:04.000 –> 00:35:05.000 and they’re penalized. 00:35:06.000 –> 00:35:08.000 So you have to always be cognizant 00:35:09.000 –> 00:35:10.000 of that 00:35:11.000 –> 00:35:13.000 and and keep that in the forefront. 00:35:14.000 –> 00:35:16.000 Before every game, 00:35:16.000 –> 00:35:17.000 every game, 00:35:18.000 –> 00:35:21.000 I walk I would go into the restroom 00:35:21.000 –> 00:35:23.000 by myself for a moment, and I would 00:35:23.000 –> 00:35:25.000 say a little prayer. Lord, please. 00:35:26.000 –> 00:35:27.000 Give me the 00:35:27.000 –> 00:35:29.000 wisdom, the knowledge, 00:35:30.000 –> 00:35:31.000 to not 00:35:31.000 –> 00:35:32.000 injure 00:35:33.000 –> 00:35:33.000 or hurt 00:35:34.000 –> 00:35:36.000 someone tonight. Yep. 00:35:37.000 –> 00:35:38.000 And that’s the same thing 00:35:39.000 –> 00:35:41.000 as I went to my office. Give me 00:35:41.000 –> 00:35:42.000 the wisdom knowledge. 00:35:43.000 –> 00:35:44.000 You can’t get too 00:35:46.000 –> 00:35:46.000 big, 00:35:47.000 –> 00:35:49.000 as we like to call it, 00:35:49.000 –> 00:35:51.000 see yourself as too important. 00:35:52.000 –> 00:35:55.000 For what this business is about. You’re in 00:35:55.000 –> 00:35:56.000 the people business. 00:35:56.000 –> 00:36:00.000 You’re in a helping business, your assistance business. 00:36:00.000 –> 00:36:01.000 Now, does that mean 00:36:01.000 –> 00:36:04.000 that you and allow somebody to do what 00:36:04.000 –> 00:36:06.000 the heck they want. And as I I 00:36:06.000 –> 00:36:09.000 I I I told, an individual wants, 00:36:09.000 –> 00:36:12.000 I was a young Gilliland 00:36:12.000 –> 00:36:14.000 everybody knew, no, knew that I was very 00:36:14.000 –> 00:36:16.000 religious, a religion. 00:36:16.000 –> 00:36:17.000 Yeah. And always, 00:36:18.000 –> 00:36:18.000 a 00:36:19.000 –> 00:36:20.000 priority with my family. 00:36:21.000 –> 00:36:23.000 So this guy comes in, and he is 00:36:23.000 –> 00:36:24.000 just being a first class jerk. I’m a 00:36:24.000 –> 00:36:25.000 principal. 00:36:26.000 –> 00:36:28.000 And he knew I was a first class 00:36:29.000 –> 00:36:30.000 jerk. 00:36:30.000 –> 00:36:31.000 And I said to him, I said, sir, 00:36:31.000 –> 00:36:34.000 I said, let’s let’s let’s get an understanding 00:36:34.000 –> 00:36:34.000 here. 00:36:36.000 –> 00:36:38.000 I said, ob he said, you 00:36:38.000 –> 00:36:41.000 you’re you’re religious in all of this. And 00:36:41.000 –> 00:36:43.000 I said, let’s get an understanding here. 00:36:44.000 –> 00:36:45.000 Don’t. 00:36:46.000 –> 00:36:47.000 Take 00:36:48.000 –> 00:36:48.000 my 00:36:50.000 –> 00:36:51.000 religious belief, 00:36:52.000 –> 00:36:52.000 are 00:36:53.000 –> 00:36:53.000 my kindness, 00:36:54.000 –> 00:36:55.000 as a form of weakness. 00:36:56.000 –> 00:36:58.000 If you make that statement again, 00:36:59.000 –> 00:37:00.000 you’re gonna find out 00:37:00.000 –> 00:37:02.000 just who I am. 00:37:02.000 –> 00:37:04.000 So, again, that’s extreme. 00:37:05.000 –> 00:37:06.000 Right. Right. Tell him how to know where 00:37:06.000 –> 00:37:08.000 you stand. You you’re gonna have to. Yeah. 00:37:08.000 –> 00:37:09.000 Don’t take 00:37:09.000 –> 00:37:10.000 this goodness 00:37:11.000 –> 00:37:13.000 as a form of weakness. I love that. 00:37:13.000 –> 00:37:14.000 And the same thing when I when I 00:37:14.000 –> 00:37:17.000 work with coaches. Yep. Coaches. I’m gonna listen 00:37:17.000 –> 00:37:18.000 to you for a moment. 00:37:18.000 –> 00:37:20.000 But you when I do when I give 00:37:20.000 –> 00:37:21.000 you that stop sign, 00:37:22.000 –> 00:37:25.000 that’s it. Don’t I’ve reached my limit. 00:37:26.000 –> 00:37:28.000 Don’t say another word. If you say another 00:37:28.000 –> 00:37:31.000 word, there’s something else coming. I love it. 00:37:31.000 –> 00:37:33.000 So let’s talk about the flying lineup. Let 00:37:33.000 –> 00:37:35.000 me tell you a quick story. So my 00:37:35.000 –> 00:37:37.000 grew up matt too, as I said. My, 00:37:38.000 –> 00:37:40.000 mom’s cousin was, I think, next door neighbors 00:37:40.000 –> 00:37:42.000 to Lou Henson. So so we got to 00:37:42.000 –> 00:37:42.000 know, 00:37:43.000 –> 00:37:45.000 them. And I was lucky enough in nineteen 00:37:45.000 –> 00:37:47.000 eighty nine. They had their final four dinner. 00:37:47.000 –> 00:37:49.000 I got invited. My mom and dad and 00:37:49.000 –> 00:37:52.000 I. Eighty nine were were in Seattle? Yes. 00:37:52.000 –> 00:37:53.000 Uh-huh. I was there. Yeah. 00:37:53.000 –> 00:37:55.000 So, I get to go to the the 00:37:55.000 –> 00:37:57.000 dinner back in Champagne, and, I sit next 00:37:57.000 –> 00:37:59.000 to Andy Kaufman. Oh, yes. And Randy called 00:37:59.000 –> 00:38:01.000 you. Thirty four, I believe. Number thirty and 00:38:01.000 –> 00:38:03.000 I got to try his, 00:38:03.000 –> 00:38:05.000 final four ring on. And it was really 00:38:05.000 –> 00:38:06.000 it was a great night. You know, I 00:38:06.000 –> 00:38:09.000 met, you know, Ken Gilliland Gail and Nick 00:38:09.000 –> 00:38:09.000 Anderson. 00:38:10.000 –> 00:38:12.000 Stephen Barto and Keno Gil both been on 00:38:12.000 –> 00:38:14.000 this podcast, which has been awesome. Good good 00:38:14.000 –> 00:38:15.000 people. I know both of them very well. 00:38:15.000 –> 00:38:18.000 But talk about the Flat Atlanta because a 00:38:18.000 –> 00:38:20.000 lot of people from Illinois listen to this. 00:38:20.000 –> 00:38:21.000 Our our Missouri friends will just have to 00:38:21.000 –> 00:38:22.000 they’ll just have to listen to it. Sure. 00:38:22.000 –> 00:38:24.000 Hightower? The flying Alana nineteen eighty nine, talk 00:38:24.000 –> 00:38:26.000 about that team and over your career. How 00:38:26.000 –> 00:38:27.000 did 00:38:27.000 –> 00:38:29.000 they rank? Would you like about him? Would 00:38:29.000 –> 00:38:31.000 you like about Liz? Let’s talk about, 00:38:31.000 –> 00:38:33.000 what was the greatest shot? 00:38:34.000 –> 00:38:37.000 Mhmm. What what what shot was that? Well, 00:38:37.000 –> 00:38:39.000 my greatest shot was the turnaround shot at 00:38:39.000 –> 00:38:41.000 the Indiana game that Nick Anderson from Half 00:38:41.000 –> 00:38:43.000 Court turns around throws it up. Who do 00:38:43.000 –> 00:38:44.000 you think was the lead referee on that 00:38:44.000 –> 00:38:46.000 game? That You got it right here. You 00:38:46.000 –> 00:38:47.000 had Hyde Hightower. 00:38:47.000 –> 00:38:49.000 And, let me tell you a little story 00:38:49.000 –> 00:38:51.000 about that game. That that play. 00:38:52.000 –> 00:38:55.000 That play. You remember Indiana went down and 00:38:55.000 –> 00:38:55.000 scored. 00:38:56.000 –> 00:38:56.000 Okay? 00:38:57.000 –> 00:38:58.000 They scored. 00:39:00.000 –> 00:39:01.000 And coach, 00:39:02.000 –> 00:39:05.000 Henson called the time out right away. Mhmm. 00:39:05.000 –> 00:39:06.000 Coach Knight, 00:39:07.000 –> 00:39:10.000 wanted all he wanted to know was how 00:39:10.000 –> 00:39:11.000 much time I was gonna put back on 00:39:11.000 –> 00:39:13.000 the clock because there was no way in 00:39:13.000 –> 00:39:15.000 the world on the baseline Yeah. Even though 00:39:15.000 –> 00:39:17.000 the kid could run. He could run. Yep. 00:39:18.000 –> 00:39:20.000 There’s no way in the world. 00:39:22.000 –> 00:39:22.000 I thought, 00:39:23.000 –> 00:39:25.000 coach and I, or anyone else thought that 00:39:25.000 –> 00:39:27.000 that ball, first of all, was gonna get 00:39:27.000 –> 00:39:30.000 across half court, and they were gonna be 00:39:30.000 –> 00:39:31.000 able to get it up and score. 00:39:32.000 –> 00:39:34.000 I was the lead referee 00:39:34.000 –> 00:39:36.000 I put the ball in playing. 00:39:36.000 –> 00:39:39.000 I saw it all. It witnessed it all. 00:39:39.000 –> 00:39:41.000 And then, of course, I went to, 00:39:42.000 –> 00:39:44.000 to the final four with them that year, 00:39:44.000 –> 00:39:45.000 in Seattle. 00:39:46.000 –> 00:39:47.000 And, 00:39:47.000 –> 00:39:50.000 oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And, Michigan was there. 00:39:52.000 –> 00:39:53.000 Miskum was there, 00:39:55.000 –> 00:39:57.000 Seaton Gilliland 00:39:57.000 –> 00:39:58.000 Duke. Yeah. 00:39:59.000 –> 00:40:01.000 You see, That’s Hightower, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, 00:40:01.000 –> 00:40:03.000 yeah. Oh, yeah. And so, 00:40:04.000 –> 00:40:04.000 I didn’t 00:40:05.000 –> 00:40:06.000 they didn’t assign 00:40:06.000 –> 00:40:08.000 me to the Illinois 00:40:09.000 –> 00:40:09.000 semifinal. 00:40:10.000 –> 00:40:10.000 Because 00:40:11.000 –> 00:40:14.000 I was from Illinois and again, all of 00:40:14.000 –> 00:40:16.000 that. You know, back then, they were very 00:40:17.000 –> 00:40:18.000 conscious and cognizant of 00:40:19.000 –> 00:40:21.000 those kinds of situation. 00:40:21.000 –> 00:40:23.000 But, you know, again, 00:40:23.000 –> 00:40:26.000 you know, a couple calls here that, coach 00:40:26.000 –> 00:40:29.000 Henson might be the one of the biggest 00:40:29.000 –> 00:40:31.000 jumps of my night when Nick Anderson made 00:40:31.000 –> 00:40:33.000 me chat. Oh my god. It’s unbelievable. So 00:40:33.000 –> 00:40:35.000 talk about Lou Hanson, the Lou Dew. 00:40:35.000 –> 00:40:37.000 Cohenson was, 00:40:38.000 –> 00:40:39.000 a great person. 00:40:39.000 –> 00:40:40.000 Yeah. Number one. 00:40:41.000 –> 00:40:42.000 He was a great humanitarian 00:40:43.000 –> 00:40:44.000 Number two, 00:40:45.000 –> 00:40:47.000 he was one of the most underrated couches 00:40:48.000 –> 00:40:49.000 in the game. 00:40:50.000 –> 00:40:51.000 Underrated. 00:40:51.000 –> 00:40:53.000 I I I just thought and and by 00:40:53.000 –> 00:40:54.000 the way, I I knew 00:40:55.000 –> 00:40:57.000 all of the coaches back then knew them 00:40:57.000 –> 00:40:58.000 all now. Yeah. Okay. 00:40:59.000 –> 00:40:59.000 Cohenson, 00:41:01.000 –> 00:41:04.000 not only was a great person, but he 00:41:04.000 –> 00:41:06.000 was a great tactician. 00:41:07.000 –> 00:41:08.000 The kids had to play 00:41:09.000 –> 00:41:10.000 defense, or they didn’t stay in the game. 00:41:10.000 –> 00:41:11.000 Now at times, 00:41:12.000 –> 00:41:13.000 you know, we would get you you guys 00:41:13.000 –> 00:41:15.000 would get upset that he would pull a 00:41:15.000 –> 00:41:16.000 guy so quickly. 00:41:16.000 –> 00:41:18.000 If you didn’t play defense, 00:41:19.000 –> 00:41:21.000 you were coming out of the game? Yep. 00:41:21.000 –> 00:41:22.000 Okay. 00:41:22.000 –> 00:41:24.000 And that’s just a bottom line. Now maybe 00:41:24.000 –> 00:41:26.000 that happened a little too often, you know, 00:41:26.000 –> 00:41:28.000 if you want to criticize. 00:41:28.000 –> 00:41:29.000 But, 00:41:30.000 –> 00:41:32.000 I I have the greatest respect 00:41:33.000 –> 00:41:34.000 for 00:41:34.000 –> 00:41:35.000 Coach Henson 00:41:35.000 –> 00:41:38.000 and what he stood for. And I did 00:41:38.000 –> 00:41:39.000 a podcast 00:41:39.000 –> 00:41:43.000 on Coach Henson, when he passed away. And, 00:41:43.000 –> 00:41:46.000 the respect that I have for that man, 00:41:47.000 –> 00:41:49.000 and what he brought to the great game. 00:41:49.000 –> 00:41:51.000 And as a human 00:41:51.000 –> 00:41:51.000 being, 00:41:52.000 –> 00:41:55.000 and his willingness to help others. 00:41:56.000 –> 00:41:58.000 And and I just think that he did 00:41:58.000 –> 00:42:00.000 not get the credit. No. 00:42:02.000 –> 00:42:05.000 Did they lose some games? Yes. They lost 00:42:05.000 –> 00:42:07.000 some close games. But when you look at 00:42:07.000 –> 00:42:08.000 his body of work, 00:42:09.000 –> 00:42:10.000 you won’t find anyone 00:42:10.000 –> 00:42:11.000 that put 00:42:13.000 –> 00:42:14.000 as comprehensive 00:42:14.000 –> 00:42:16.000 and complete body of work together 00:42:17.000 –> 00:42:18.000 as coach Hansen. 00:42:19.000 –> 00:42:20.000 Yep. Look at his overall. 00:42:22.000 –> 00:42:23.000 You know, when he was at what, 00:42:24.000 –> 00:42:24.000 centenary. 00:42:25.000 –> 00:42:25.000 Yep. 00:42:25.000 –> 00:42:27.000 A lot of people don’t know. 00:42:28.000 –> 00:42:30.000 He wouldn’t take that job list. The, 00:42:31.000 –> 00:42:33.000 integrated his coach at staff. 00:42:33.000 –> 00:42:34.000 You know, 00:42:35.000 –> 00:42:36.000 that’s the type of humanitarian 00:42:37.000 –> 00:42:39.000 Looking at first people. Look at look at 00:42:39.000 –> 00:42:41.000 no. Looking at society 00:42:41.000 –> 00:42:43.000 and what it meant. Yeah. 00:42:43.000 –> 00:42:43.000 Okay. 00:42:44.000 –> 00:42:44.000 So, 00:42:46.000 –> 00:42:47.000 just a great humanitarian 00:42:48.000 –> 00:42:49.000 Great. Humanitarian. 00:42:50.000 –> 00:42:51.000 So did you see were you around with 00:42:51.000 –> 00:42:52.000 the, FAD five? 00:42:54.000 –> 00:42:56.000 What was the greatest situation with the FAD 00:42:56.000 –> 00:42:58.000 five? Don’t tell me you’re doing that game. 00:42:58.000 –> 00:43:00.000 Was that nineteen ninety two the time out? 00:43:00.000 –> 00:43:02.000 What was what was the greatest what was 00:43:02.000 –> 00:43:04.000 the when you talk about the FAPFI, what 00:43:04.000 –> 00:43:07.000 what What are they known for the one 00:43:07.000 –> 00:43:10.000 single moment in time? Well, the time out. 00:43:10.000 –> 00:43:11.000 I was the lead referee 00:43:12.000 –> 00:43:15.000 on that game with the FAP five in 00:43:15.000 –> 00:43:16.000 New Orleans. Did you make that call? I 00:43:16.000 –> 00:43:19.000 was the lead referee and made the call. 00:43:19.000 –> 00:43:20.000 I had told, 00:43:21.000 –> 00:43:22.000 I was mad at you that night. Why 00:43:22.000 –> 00:43:24.000 is that? I was a Michigan fan at 00:43:24.000 –> 00:43:26.000 that point. I liked the FED five. Well, 00:43:26.000 –> 00:43:27.000 I did too. Let me tell you. Let 00:43:27.000 –> 00:43:29.000 me tell you about the FED five very 00:43:29.000 –> 00:43:29.000 quick. Thing. 00:43:31.000 –> 00:43:31.000 When 00:43:32.000 –> 00:43:34.000 the fab five came on the scene, 00:43:37.000 –> 00:43:37.000 They 00:43:38.000 –> 00:43:39.000 changed the culture 00:43:42.000 –> 00:43:44.000 of sports. Yeah. And 00:43:44.000 –> 00:43:45.000 society forever. 00:43:46.000 –> 00:43:47.000 Yeah. 00:43:47.000 –> 00:43:48.000 And 00:43:48.000 –> 00:43:49.000 that group, 00:43:49.000 –> 00:43:52.000 whatever you wanna say about them, we weren’t 00:43:52.000 –> 00:43:54.000 ready for 00:43:55.000 –> 00:43:56.000 they’re antics. Yeah. You know, with the lone 00:43:56.000 –> 00:43:57.000 parents, 00:43:57.000 –> 00:43:57.000 the, 00:43:59.000 –> 00:44:00.000 the different colored socks. 00:44:01.000 –> 00:44:01.000 Yeah. And, 00:44:02.000 –> 00:44:03.000 and their swagger 00:44:04.000 –> 00:44:07.000 and, their trash talk. Yeah. We 00:44:07.000 –> 00:44:09.000 you know, we weren’t ready for that. 00:44:10.000 –> 00:44:12.000 The commissioner of the Big Ten, 00:44:13.000 –> 00:44:15.000 Sent to me, you’re gonna live with that 00:44:15.000 –> 00:44:17.000 group, and there were three referees, 00:44:18.000 –> 00:44:20.000 and we were all educators We work more. 00:44:20.000 –> 00:44:21.000 He’s in your babies. 00:44:22.000 –> 00:44:24.000 You’re gonna live with them, and you’re gonna 00:44:25.000 –> 00:44:27.000 you’re you’re gonna keep them in check. 00:44:27.000 –> 00:44:28.000 And and, 00:44:30.000 –> 00:44:31.000 Jalen Rose, 00:44:31.000 –> 00:44:33.000 you know, he’s one of the smartest young 00:44:33.000 –> 00:44:35.000 people who you and 00:44:36.000 –> 00:44:37.000 he has a sense of humor. 00:44:38.000 –> 00:44:41.000 He would talk trash out there and one 00:44:41.000 –> 00:44:41.000 night, 00:44:42.000 –> 00:44:44.000 and just just a great individual, 00:44:45.000 –> 00:44:45.000 really. 00:44:46.000 –> 00:44:47.000 And so Jaylen 00:44:48.000 –> 00:44:50.000 He would do a dunk on you and 00:44:50.000 –> 00:44:52.000 get in your face and all of that. 00:44:52.000 –> 00:44:52.000 So, 00:44:53.000 –> 00:44:55.000 I’m working him 00:44:55.000 –> 00:44:56.000 at Northwestern 00:44:57.000 –> 00:44:58.000 And so I, 00:44:59.000 –> 00:45:01.000 I I got so upset with him. I 00:45:01.000 –> 00:45:03.000 grabbed him by the arm, and I took 00:45:03.000 –> 00:45:05.000 him over to Steve. Fisher, Fisher was some 00:45:05.000 –> 00:45:05.000 sin Australia, 00:45:06.000 –> 00:45:07.000 the Centrilla area. 00:45:08.000 –> 00:45:10.000 And so I said coach. 00:45:11.000 –> 00:45:12.000 I said, no, 00:45:12.000 –> 00:45:14.000 I am not gonna have Jaylen. 00:45:15.000 –> 00:45:17.000 I’m I would not call this right. I’m 00:45:17.000 –> 00:45:19.000 not gonna have number thirty four, whatever his 00:45:19.000 –> 00:45:20.000 number was. Yeah. Embarrass 00:45:21.000 –> 00:45:23.000 a player like what he did. He does 00:45:23.000 –> 00:45:24.000 that again. 00:45:25.000 –> 00:45:27.000 I’m gonna throw him out of the game. 00:45:27.000 –> 00:45:29.000 It’s not gonna be just a technical file. 00:45:29.000 –> 00:45:33.000 This is his official warning. Not only Jalen. 00:45:34.000 –> 00:45:35.000 After the game. 00:45:36.000 –> 00:45:36.000 Jalen, 00:45:37.000 –> 00:45:39.000 the, he was doing the interview. Well, 00:45:40.000 –> 00:45:41.000 I noticed that you and, 00:45:42.000 –> 00:45:43.000 referee hightower 00:45:44.000 –> 00:45:47.000 were were having a discussion tonight. What what 00:45:47.000 –> 00:45:48.000 was that all about? 00:45:49.000 –> 00:45:50.000 Only Jaylen. 00:45:50.000 –> 00:45:51.000 Well, you know how 00:45:52.000 –> 00:45:54.000 a principal Hightower is. He thought he was 00:45:54.000 –> 00:45:55.000 back in school, 00:45:55.000 –> 00:45:57.000 and he threatened me with the detention. 00:45:59.000 –> 00:46:01.000 That’s that’s Jaylen. 00:46:01.000 –> 00:46:02.000 And and, 00:46:04.000 –> 00:46:05.000 you know, the coach 00:46:06.000 –> 00:46:08.000 Joan Howard. Yeah. He was my go to 00:46:08.000 –> 00:46:10.000 guy back then, you know, 00:46:11.000 –> 00:46:14.000 I if we had an issue with with 00:46:14.000 –> 00:46:16.000 the rest of the group, which you know, 00:46:16.000 –> 00:46:18.000 there were good times. He no. No. No. 00:46:18.000 –> 00:46:19.000 No. No. No. No. No. No. He was 00:46:19.000 –> 00:46:21.000 to he was to oh, no. Not at 00:46:21.000 –> 00:46:24.000 all. We’d go to to Joanne and say, 00:46:25.000 –> 00:46:27.000 whatever his number was. In twenty five? You 00:46:27.000 –> 00:46:29.000 gotta you gotta take care of this. And 00:46:29.000 –> 00:46:30.000 he would. I mean, he 00:46:31.000 –> 00:46:33.000 you could tell that he was a leader. 00:46:34.000 –> 00:46:35.000 Yeah. He was a leader 00:46:36.000 –> 00:46:38.000 all the way back then. 00:46:39.000 –> 00:46:40.000 And so 00:46:40.000 –> 00:46:42.000 it doesn’t surprise any of us that, 00:46:43.000 –> 00:46:45.000 you know, I know he’s had he had 00:46:45.000 –> 00:46:47.000 some hard time last year and all, but 00:46:47.000 –> 00:46:48.000 that’s okay. 00:46:48.000 –> 00:46:50.000 He’s still a leader. We make mistakes, 00:46:51.000 –> 00:46:53.000 but, he is just a, a wonderful young 00:46:53.000 –> 00:46:55.000 person. So talk about the traits he saw 00:46:55.000 –> 00:46:57.000 and and some of the greatest players that, 00:46:57.000 –> 00:46:59.000 you know, obviously went through college, put in 00:46:59.000 –> 00:47:01.000 the NBA, you saw them all. 00:47:01.000 –> 00:47:03.000 Talk about those trades, but a that to 00:47:03.000 –> 00:47:05.000 the person. Listen this podcast right now. That’s 00:47:05.000 –> 00:47:07.000 in the business world or the education world, 00:47:07.000 –> 00:47:09.000 the medical world, whatever it may be. What 00:47:09.000 –> 00:47:11.000 did you see there that can be applied 00:47:11.000 –> 00:47:12.000 to the to the office. 00:47:12.000 –> 00:47:13.000 Personal Verintz. 00:47:14.000 –> 00:47:16.000 James. Gold setting. 00:47:17.000 –> 00:47:20.000 When it when it when when at the 00:47:20.000 –> 00:47:20.000 toughest 00:47:21.000 –> 00:47:21.000 moment. 00:47:22.000 –> 00:47:24.000 That’s when those individuals 00:47:25.000 –> 00:47:27.000 really showed and demonstrated. 00:47:30.000 –> 00:47:31.000 There’s true 00:47:31.000 –> 00:47:32.000 value system. 00:47:33.000 –> 00:47:36.000 And when I talk about value system, that 00:47:36.000 –> 00:47:36.000 toughness, 00:47:37.000 –> 00:47:40.000 that Gilliland that willingness to 00:47:40.000 –> 00:47:41.000 give a little extra. 00:47:43.000 –> 00:47:46.000 That willingness in and I use this with 00:47:46.000 –> 00:47:47.000 young Gilliland 00:47:47.000 –> 00:47:49.000 getting a little old now. The guy’s name 00:47:49.000 –> 00:47:52.000 was Hersha Hawkins from Bradley. Yeah. He’s one 00:47:52.000 –> 00:47:54.000 of my all time favorite players. 00:47:56.000 –> 00:47:58.000 I asked him once. He was a great 00:47:58.000 –> 00:48:01.000 player. Remember? Yep. He was the eighty eight, 00:48:01.000 –> 00:48:03.000 player of the year over Danny Manage, and 00:48:03.000 –> 00:48:06.000 my first final four with with Kansas. Yeah. 00:48:06.000 –> 00:48:08.000 Well, Danny ended up being the player of 00:48:08.000 –> 00:48:09.000 the year, 00:48:10.000 –> 00:48:11.000 and I never get into who should be 00:48:11.000 –> 00:48:13.000 the player of the new, but Hersha Hawkins 00:48:13.000 –> 00:48:14.000 really should have player of the year that 00:48:14.000 –> 00:48:15.000 year. 00:48:15.000 –> 00:48:17.000 But Hersha Hawkins was one of my all 00:48:17.000 –> 00:48:18.000 time favorites. 00:48:18.000 –> 00:48:20.000 He was one he was one of the 00:48:20.000 –> 00:48:22.000 great jump shooters, as you know. 00:48:22.000 –> 00:48:23.000 So 00:48:25.000 –> 00:48:26.000 we would have to go to be at 00:48:26.000 –> 00:48:27.000 the game 00:48:28.000 –> 00:48:30.000 an hour and a half before game time. 00:48:30.000 –> 00:48:31.000 Okay. 00:48:32.000 –> 00:48:35.000 Hershel Hawkins, if he had missed the game 00:48:35.000 –> 00:48:36.000 before. 00:48:38.000 –> 00:48:40.000 Wherever he missed the shot from, 00:48:41.000 –> 00:48:42.000 That next game, 00:48:43.000 –> 00:48:45.000 at hour and a half before game time, 00:48:46.000 –> 00:48:49.000 the lights aren’t even on yet. He’s out 00:48:49.000 –> 00:48:51.000 there practicing that shot Wow. That he missed. 00:48:52.000 –> 00:48:55.000 And I asked him when I I said, 00:48:55.000 –> 00:48:57.000 I said, I called him Hawk. I said, 00:48:57.000 –> 00:49:00.000 Hawk. I said, man, you you’re a great 00:49:00.000 –> 00:49:00.000 player. 00:49:03.000 –> 00:49:04.000 Why are you 00:49:05.000 –> 00:49:05.000 practicing? 00:49:08.000 –> 00:49:10.000 At an hour and a half before game 00:49:10.000 –> 00:49:11.000 time. 00:49:12.000 –> 00:49:15.000 And you’re coming off, and you’re you’re acting 00:49:15.000 –> 00:49:16.000 as if, 00:49:16.000 –> 00:49:17.000 here’s a screen. 00:49:18.000 –> 00:49:20.000 Here’s the jump shot. 00:49:20.000 –> 00:49:22.000 Why do you do that? 00:49:22.000 –> 00:49:23.000 He says because 00:49:25.000 –> 00:49:27.000 that shot is gonna come up again. 00:49:29.000 –> 00:49:30.000 Now, you take that 00:49:31.000 –> 00:49:32.000 in life. 00:49:32.000 –> 00:49:34.000 You learn from experiences. 00:49:35.000 –> 00:49:38.000 It’s gonna come up again. Yeah. And if 00:49:38.000 –> 00:49:39.000 you’ve rehearsed 00:49:39.000 –> 00:49:39.000 it, 00:49:40.000 –> 00:49:42.000 then you know how to react. 00:49:43.000 –> 00:49:45.000 I used to get in front of a 00:49:45.000 –> 00:49:45.000 mirror 00:49:47.000 –> 00:49:48.000 at home 00:49:48.000 –> 00:49:51.000 and rehearse my mechanics. People used to say, 00:49:51.000 –> 00:49:53.000 boy, hi, Tara. Boy, look at his mechanics. 00:49:54.000 –> 00:49:56.000 That was not by accident. 00:49:57.000 –> 00:50:00.000 You have to everything has to be in 00:50:00.000 –> 00:50:00.000 sync. 00:50:01.000 –> 00:50:03.000 And here’s the thing. When you get into 00:50:03.000 –> 00:50:05.000 that situation, 00:50:05.000 –> 00:50:07.000 you got fifty thousand 00:50:08.000 –> 00:50:09.000 people in the arena 00:50:10.000 –> 00:50:11.000 at a final four. 00:50:12.000 –> 00:50:14.000 You got millions watching. 00:50:14.000 –> 00:50:16.000 You can’t think about it. 00:50:17.000 –> 00:50:18.000 You got to 00:50:19.000 –> 00:50:19.000 react. 00:50:21.000 –> 00:50:22.000 You’re not 00:50:23.000 –> 00:50:26.000 over. You got to react to the situation 00:50:27.000 –> 00:50:27.000 at the moment. 00:50:28.000 –> 00:50:30.000 And that’s life. Mhmm. 00:50:31.000 –> 00:50:32.000 That’s life. 00:50:33.000 –> 00:50:34.000 Solid. 00:50:34.000 –> 00:50:36.000 Man, tons of takeaways. 00:50:37.000 –> 00:50:38.000 Last few questions. So you’re 00:50:39.000 –> 00:50:40.000 I talk about this all the time on 00:50:40.000 –> 00:50:42.000 these podcasts is fears. 00:50:43.000 –> 00:50:45.000 The fears we put in our mind, how 00:50:45.000 –> 00:50:46.000 many of the fears have actually blown up 00:50:46.000 –> 00:50:48.000 to the magnitude you put them in your 00:50:48.000 –> 00:50:49.000 mind to be? Well, 00:50:50.000 –> 00:50:52.000 you know, as a young 00:50:53.000 –> 00:50:53.000 person, 00:50:55.000 –> 00:50:56.000 when I was in 00:50:57.000 –> 00:50:58.000 fourth grade, 00:51:00.000 –> 00:51:01.000 My fourth grade teacher said 00:51:02.000 –> 00:51:04.000 I would never be anything. 00:51:04.000 –> 00:51:05.000 She called me dumb, 00:51:06.000 –> 00:51:08.000 come and retard it. 00:51:09.000 –> 00:51:11.000 In fourth grade in the south. 00:51:12.000 –> 00:51:13.000 My fifth grade teacher, 00:51:15.000 –> 00:51:16.000 miss Jackson, 00:51:18.000 –> 00:51:19.000 She took those spirits away. 00:51:21.000 –> 00:51:21.000 She said, 00:51:22.000 –> 00:51:24.000 you can be anything in anybody you wanna 00:51:24.000 –> 00:51:25.000 be. 00:51:26.000 –> 00:51:27.000 The fear 00:51:27.000 –> 00:51:28.000 is what 00:51:29.000 –> 00:51:31.000 you imagine it to be. 00:51:32.000 –> 00:51:33.000 I never forgot that. 00:51:34.000 –> 00:51:36.000 I never forgot that. 00:51:37.000 –> 00:51:39.000 And with it, I say you prepare 00:51:41.000 –> 00:51:42.000 for that for the 00:51:44.000 –> 00:51:44.000 uncertainties 00:51:45.000 –> 00:51:46.000 And 00:51:46.000 –> 00:51:48.000 when you get into that moment now, let 00:51:48.000 –> 00:51:50.000 me be clear with you. 00:51:50.000 –> 00:51:51.000 Before every gain, 00:51:53.000 –> 00:51:54.000 before every game. 00:51:55.000 –> 00:51:57.000 I don’t care. The 00:51:58.000 –> 00:51:59.000 the magnitude of a game, if it was 00:51:59.000 –> 00:52:03.000 a game with Lewis and Clark, and Bellville 00:52:04.000 –> 00:52:05.000 Swick at that time. 00:52:06.000 –> 00:52:07.000 I’m just using that as an example. 00:52:09.000 –> 00:52:10.000 I would have to go, 00:52:12.000 –> 00:52:14.000 to the restroom. Yeah. I would say that 00:52:14.000 –> 00:52:16.000 prayer before I walked out there because I 00:52:16.000 –> 00:52:18.000 was the nurse those were the nerds. 00:52:18.000 –> 00:52:19.000 But once, 00:52:20.000 –> 00:52:21.000 I threw that ball up. 00:52:22.000 –> 00:52:23.000 No fear. 00:52:24.000 –> 00:52:25.000 Yeah. You’re prepared. 00:52:27.000 –> 00:52:28.000 You’re prepared 00:52:29.000 –> 00:52:30.000 mentally, 00:52:31.000 –> 00:52:32.000 physically. 00:52:32.000 –> 00:52:34.000 You know the rules. 00:52:34.000 –> 00:52:35.000 Yep. And you just react. 00:52:40.000 –> 00:52:41.000 It’s so true. And then, I mean, I 00:52:41.000 –> 00:52:42.000 even said this to Matt right before we 00:52:42.000 –> 00:52:44.000 started recording this. 00:52:44.000 –> 00:52:45.000 You’re 00:52:45.000 –> 00:52:47.000 stepped outside. And I said, you know, it’s 00:52:47.000 –> 00:52:49.000 funny after three hundred and whatever, eighty five 00:52:49.000 –> 00:52:51.000 guests, you still got the little bit of 00:52:51.000 –> 00:52:54.000 the the nerves. Hightower you don’t. If you 00:52:54.000 –> 00:52:55.000 don’t, you don’t care. I mean, I heard 00:52:55.000 –> 00:52:56.000 Tiger would say that. Right? If he goes, 00:52:56.000 –> 00:52:58.000 if the day I stop being nervous on 00:52:58.000 –> 00:53:00.000 the first tee is what I’m Exactly. And, 00:53:00.000 –> 00:53:02.000 exactly. So that that that matters. That matters. 00:53:02.000 –> 00:53:03.000 So, 00:53:04.000 –> 00:53:06.000 let’s see. So when you think about, 00:53:07.000 –> 00:53:08.000 reading, how important has that been in your 00:53:08.000 –> 00:53:09.000 career? 00:53:10.000 –> 00:53:10.000 Oh, 00:53:11.000 –> 00:53:11.000 absolutely. 00:53:12.000 –> 00:53:14.000 You have to, you know, we have a 00:53:14.000 –> 00:53:16.000 we we we have a sand in church. 00:53:17.000 –> 00:53:18.000 You have to study 00:53:19.000 –> 00:53:21.000 to show yourself approved. 00:53:21.000 –> 00:53:23.000 That’s an old saying in church. Well, it’s 00:53:23.000 –> 00:53:25.000 the same thing with education. 00:53:26.000 –> 00:53:27.000 I read a lot. 00:53:28.000 –> 00:53:30.000 I don’t read just to read, but I 00:53:30.000 –> 00:53:31.000 read a ton, 00:53:32.000 –> 00:53:32.000 particularly 00:53:33.000 –> 00:53:34.000 on the subject matters. 00:53:35.000 –> 00:53:37.000 That are important to me. Yeah. Education, 00:53:38.000 –> 00:53:39.000 when I was 00:53:39.000 –> 00:53:40.000 in education, 00:53:41.000 –> 00:53:42.000 I read every 00:53:43.000 –> 00:53:46.000 article I could get my hands on on 00:53:46.000 –> 00:53:46.000 leadership, 00:53:47.000 –> 00:53:48.000 decision making, 00:53:49.000 –> 00:53:50.000 working with kids, 00:53:50.000 –> 00:53:51.000 understanding 00:53:51.000 –> 00:53:52.000 the dynamics 00:53:52.000 –> 00:53:53.000 of what 00:53:54.000 –> 00:53:56.000 I was gonna be faced with. Yep. Refering, 00:53:57.000 –> 00:53:59.000 I knew that rule book 00:54:00.000 –> 00:54:01.000 back in front. 00:54:01.000 –> 00:54:02.000 Leadership, 00:54:02.000 –> 00:54:03.000 I would always 00:54:05.000 –> 00:54:06.000 read articles 00:54:06.000 –> 00:54:07.000 about leadership 00:54:07.000 –> 00:54:09.000 and decision making 00:54:09.000 –> 00:54:10.000 Okay? Because that 00:54:11.000 –> 00:54:12.000 you learn 00:54:12.000 –> 00:54:14.000 if you can just pick up one little 00:54:14.000 –> 00:54:15.000 nugget. 00:54:15.000 –> 00:54:16.000 Yep. 00:54:16.000 –> 00:54:18.000 It’s gonna make you better at what you 00:54:18.000 –> 00:54:19.000 do. Yep. 00:54:19.000 –> 00:54:21.000 So I’ll close with this one. I’m anxious 00:54:21.000 –> 00:54:23.000 to see. I’ve never asked these questions. I 00:54:23.000 –> 00:54:24.000 just read it this morning. So I read 00:54:24.000 –> 00:54:26.000 my my deal is at least ten pages 00:54:26.000 –> 00:54:27.000 a day. Every day. If I can do 00:54:27.000 –> 00:54:28.000 that, you’re gonna read a lot of books. 00:54:28.000 –> 00:54:30.000 Mhmm. And so I read this today, and 00:54:30.000 –> 00:54:31.000 it was it made me think. I sent 00:54:31.000 –> 00:54:33.000 it to a couple buddies, but it said, 00:54:33.000 –> 00:54:35.000 you know, basically be careful of the feedback 00:54:35.000 –> 00:54:37.000 that you take. Not everything is for you. 00:54:37.000 –> 00:54:38.000 Maybe maybe it’s for you, maybe it’s for 00:54:38.000 –> 00:54:40.000 me, but it it may not be for 00:54:40.000 –> 00:54:42.000 both of us. Right? And it said be 00:54:42.000 –> 00:54:42.000 careful 00:54:42.000 –> 00:54:45.000 because the boiling water that hardens the egg 00:54:45.000 –> 00:54:47.000 softens the carrot. 00:54:47.000 –> 00:54:48.000 So when you hear that, what do you 00:54:48.000 –> 00:54:51.000 think? Well, when I when I see that 00:54:51.000 –> 00:54:53.000 in when I when I when I think 00:54:53.000 –> 00:54:54.000 of it, when I see it, when I 00:54:54.000 –> 00:54:55.000 I believe that, 00:54:56.000 –> 00:54:59.000 you listen, you never not listen. 00:55:02.000 –> 00:55:04.000 Okay. Yeah. But you better have 00:55:05.000 –> 00:55:07.000 the intestinal fortitude and the smartness to be 00:55:07.000 –> 00:55:08.000 able to decipher. 00:55:09.000 –> 00:55:12.000 That’s the big difference right there. Yep. 00:55:12.000 –> 00:55:14.000 Mister Harshberger, my eighth grade history teacher said 00:55:14.000 –> 00:55:17.000 you get two ears, one mouth, using proportional. 00:55:17.000 –> 00:55:19.000 You got it. Doctor Ed Hightower. Man, this 00:55:19.000 –> 00:55:21.000 has been an absolute blast. Thanks for being 00:55:21.000 –> 00:55:22.000 with me, man. Pleasure to be on my 00:55:22.000 –> 00:55:23.000 mind, Brett. Thanks for being on the circuit 00:55:23.000 –> 00:55:25.000 of success. You got it, babe. Thank you.