Edgewood Arsenal Experiments

Yeah. This show's brought to you by Poor Life Decisions. By capitalism. That's capitalism, baby. Capitalism and preservatives. Hell yeah. Welcome to America. All right, here you go. Thanks. No way. Oh my God. Welcome everybody to episode 117 of One Million of the Serial Chillers Podcast. As always, I ask, how goes it? Cromulent, Jesse. Are you going to hit the theme song? Oh yeah, I forgot. I have my own. Nope, stole from Greg. I am well. It comes with a C. And frankly, so do I.

Gross. That's why we don't switch chairs when we do this. I'll make you sit in your own chair. Sit in it, pig. I'm here today with Bigfoot and Robbie. Super excited to have you guys here. Welcome back, both of yous. Hello. Thank you, sir. Hello, Jerry. All right. My voice is so played. You got to pick between me or the voice. So I'm really not doing the voice.

Hello. So, most of you know how the show works, but let me explain for anyone that doesn't. Each week, he sits down with old friends, new friends, good friends, and bad friends to tell the story of an infamous serial killer. Something true crime, dark, creepy, unsolved, or otherwise mysterious. If something isn't clear, be sure to chime in, because if you have questions about the questions, be sure to ask questions, because I cannot answer questions about questions if you never ask questions. Are there any questions? No. Nice. I fucking nailed it, and you guys don't have any questions. It was clear and concise. We're there. All right. Well, then, welcome to, and let's play the Serial Chillers podcast.

Today, we are going to talk about some of the worst people imaginable. Christians. The United States government. The United States government. I know Casey's a big fan. We've done this before. You know how the show starts. Question number one. In what year did the U.S. government start using the Edgewood Arsenal facility? Oh, Jesus. All right. Robbie says 1950. Casey says 1927. The points go to Casey. It was 1917 when the U.S. government started using it.

It was used in the production of war crime gas. Oh. Right after World War I. So now that we've broken the seal on the show, let's do some full guest intros. Casey, welcome back. Yeah, that shit fucking happened. That happened. Samurai chatter.

Prop back to OG. Give it to me. Welcome back. Go ahead. Say your thing. What's going on, guys? Hit me up. Bigfoot Designs. B-I-W-G-F-O-O-T Designs. Love it. On Instagram. It's cool to see you making knives and stuff now, too. Seeing you, like, forging. I saw your shifter knob. Oh, yeah? That was clean. Yo, I drive a manual. Just saying. Well, it's just cool to see your, like, when we started, was right about the time you started. Yeah. And I remember, like, giving you a stack of skateboard decks, and, you know, you were, like, turning, you know, old scrap wood on a lathe, and now you're out, like...

forging steel into dope. Not an anvil and shit. That's a dope process to watch, too. It is. Just seeing what I've seen on the internets has been quite fun. Robbie, welcome back. I'm out.

That's it for me guys. That's it for me. We peaked. This is it. Always go out on a high note. Thank you and goodnight. I figured you'd appreciate that. And you didn't let me down. You made like six Seinfeld references before you even got to the fact that you had a Seinfeld theme song. I couldn't find your old one. That's why, because your old one was you going, hello. Very good. Hey, you guys, a theme song. That's it, everybody. Remember, people ask for the theme songs back. I'm working on it, all right? We're making it happen. We're working here.

All right, well, thanks for being back, guys. I really appreciate you being here. This is going to be a fun episode for me. And they're getting liquored up, too. Yeah, hey, whatever. That's good. You're going to need it to get through some of this. Reference works here for this episode.

the internet at large. There's a, there's a documentary that came out in the eighties, I believe. Um, it was like a CBS news broadcast thing called bad trip to Edgewood. And that's where a lot of this came from. Um, last podcast on the left did a couple of, did a two part episode or yeah, two episode deal about, uh, the Edgewood arsenal. So some information came from there. Some of it came from just the fucking internet at large. Um, it's a, it's

There's some weird shit. You're allowed to reference your own brain too. Yeah, so some of it came from my coconut. For anybody who's interested, you can find us on Instagram and TikTok at Serial Chillers Podcast. YouTube at Serial Chillers Podcast. You can check the Threadless store. We've got new stickers in the store. Patreon, all that stuff. There you go. SerialChillersPod.com. You can call us or text us 805-666-2513. Send us an email, SerialChillersPodcast at gmail.com. We've got a P.O. Box. P.O. Box 1229, Clovis, California 93613. You can see it on the screen. If you can't see it on the screen, why aren't you watching this? And you're missing all that good information. Also, lonelyfanswith2z.com.

The Edgewood Arsenal facility. 1917, the Edgewood Arsenal was founded for the U.S. to test chemical weapons for World War I. What a consummate professional. That was a tough segue to make. From my spread open cheeks to war crimes? Yes. I feel like they're similar. I feel like, yeah, like, yeah. There's not a lot of friction. Those spread cheeks are... Those gears aren't going to grind. They're too simpatico. In 1948, they begin using Edgewood Arsenal to experiment on people. This is a place up in Maryland, so it's here.

in-country. Super not suspicious that right after they started experimenting on people, like, this happened to be the time just after World War II where we were, like, taking a bunch of Nazi doctors and, like, so the Russians didn't get them. So, obviously, you know, there's more than just... No, we did it! Obviously, there's more than just Nazi doctors at play here. We were taking actual paperclips, sir. Yeah, they were actually... This actually was part of Operation Paperclip.

But obviously, again, it's more than that, but you'll see how the lines get the parallels to the Nazis get drawn. This place was operational in this capacity until 1975, allegedly. So allegedly it stopped around then, but we don't know for certain. It's happening today. It would not surprise me. It was used as an experimental chemical facility for the U.S. government. So the Department of Defense, they wanted to know what chemicals they could use to stop and incapacitate or kill their enemy. And what better research than firsthand on people? They also want to know how to keep their soldiers safe. So, you know, you got to assume that if we know how to make mustard gas, the enemy knows how to make mustard gas. So we got to know how to protect ourselves from mustard gas.

So that's, and that's kind of the US military industrial complex mindset is everybody out there's a bad guy and they could be doing all this shit because we can think of it. If we can think of it, they can think of it. If they can think of it, they can make it. If they can make it, we got to be prepared for it. So we got to make it. And that's how they like trick themselves into getting around stuff like this, where it's obviously a fucking war crime to be using chemical weapons. It's a violation of the Geneva Convention, plain and simple. But look it up. Look it up. But they're not, they're not making chemical weapons. They're making defense for chemical weapons, but they have to have something to test. So they got to make chemical weapons. Is that a loophole? It is. And it's an intentional loophole. Right.

So, personally, this whole thing, again, reeks of Nazi experiments where they claim to be done for science, but it's really satisfying some sort of, like, weird frat boy morbid curiosity. You know, where, like, you get a bunch of guys together and then eventually it gets dark and somebody's like, dude, like, how many people do you think you could eat, like, if you had to eat a person? You know what I mean? Don't ask him that. I mean, I could probably eat a lot if I had to. I'm more of the mindset of, like, 1.6 people? You guys as my friends, right? If I die and you're still alive and you have to eat me, please eat me. Yeah, I mean...

I don't know about that. I don't know if I could eat a person because I really dislike cannibals and I don't care if a cannibal hears this. I think, according to native folklore, you absorb their powers, though. So you could become like a superhuman. I don't want their powers. I hate cannibals. I hate the idea of cannibals. I hate cannibals. We were all mad stoked when he said Sagala died. I was pretty pumped about that. He was just walking around. What's that? Yeah, he said that looked like corn. Dude, he...

So Edgewood was used in the creation and manufacturing of chemical and biological weapons, as well as the chemical intoxicants for use on humans. Just in case you weren't sure, biological weapons are a direct violation of the Geneva Convention. According to the UN website, in 1925, Geneva Protocol prohibits the use of chemical and biological weapons in war. The protocol was drawn up and signed at a conference which was held in Geneva under the auspices of the League of Nations from the 4th of May... to the 17th of June, 1925, and it entered into force on the 8th of February, 1928. So 20 years before these guys are doing this shit, it's already, like, more than a capital offense. This is, like, the big no-no.

but they're like, we got a loophole. These experiments were very similar to ones that were performed during World War II. It does, I mean, it gives off that feel. A lot of the soldiers that they experimented on during this time were unwitting in the things that they were doing. That's the thing that kind of almost makes this, like it adds insult to injury. I love when I asked you to clarify this. You said, okay, so they were testing chemical gas and they would send them out in like a new cargo pant. Like that's how like pointless, like some of the... Yeah, they were legit out of rayon. What they wanted, like they wanted to know how the gas affected...

somebody's face and lungs and so what they would do is be like hey we're testing how the cargo pants affect like how well they protect your skin so go ahead and go in there and he's like well he has a gas mask I want one of those and they're like no you're probably fine and just gas them out and like this I'll talk about the chamber later but they I mean they have a gas chamber and they call it a gas chamber and like one of my biggest choice of words right you think we would have learned we're right after World War II but these guys like like no we got the patent now fuck yeah it's our turn and the insult to injury is they're taking our soldiers They're pulling guys off the front lines at Vietnam in Korea and experimenting on them and then being like, all right, bye. Yeah, but the main difference, again, is that the people who were in the prison camps and stuff weren't volunteers. They were being genocided, so they didn't have a choice. These guys got told, you'll get extra time off. We'll give you an extra four days or you don't have to do latrine duty. You don't have KP. You don't have any of this stuff. You might not have to work ever again. Well, that's the thing. They fucked these guys up and then sent them back. Like, go ahead. Yeah, like, go live a life. Go back to war. Go be normal.

Do we know what happened to these people? Yes. We'll talk about it. The goggle pants, they do nothing. And they don't. The goggles, they do nothing. So they were told they would receive extra time off and be able to sidestep certain duties. Guys would sign up for this because imagine you're in Vietnam and people just died from a poop-covered bamboo steak.

And I don't want that. But they told me I can go take some caffeine pills for like a weekend in Maryland and I don't have to be here. I'm on. Like that's, yeah. But it was, you know, more than caffeine pills sometimes. They'd be told they would be testing the effectiveness of certain protective gear and non-protective gear to see how it does against chemical agents. Legit, again, some of these guys were told they would get to see how effective cargo shorts were against tear gas. One guy gets cargo shorts, one guy gets a gas mask and they see who lasts longer. Like, and it's...

Is he allowed to form a gas mask from his cargo pants? He seems to have done that. Is that within the rules? He took his shirt off and he peed on it to make a gas mask. He's like, is that okay? Shut the fuck up. So some of what happened was they were using tear gas. They also developed something there called VX gas. VX was a variation on what the Nazis used in the gas chambers. Question number two. I forgot. What does VX stand for?

Is it A, nothing, just some cool sounding initials? B, volatile, extremely. C, violent execution. Or D, venomous agent X. Volatile, extremely. D, D, both of them say D. I feel like that, was that an easy question? Do you feel like? No, no. No, I don't write questions often, so I'd like to know. Is that points for both of them? It is points for both of them. VX is short for venomous agent X. It's one of the best known of the V nerve agents and was discovered at Porton Down by Ranjit Ghosh.

in England during the early 1950s, and it was based on research first done by Gerhard Schrader, a chemist who worked for, working for, question number three. He worked for a German company who, or I'm sorry, he worked for a company who contracted with the Nazis during World War II. It was a German company. Was it A, Volkswagen, B, Coca-Cola, C, IG Farben, or D, Hugo Boss? All right. Robbie says C, IG Farben. Bigfoot says A, Volkswagen. Give Robbie the points. It's IG Farben. I don't even know what that is. It's a German medical company. Okay.

I'm sorry, a German industrial company. They make a lot of products. Very industrious. Yeah. So he worked for IG Farben in Germany during the 1930s. VX is now one of a broader V series of agents, which are classified as nerve agents, and have been used as chemical weapons in various recorded deadly attacks. So VX fatalities occur with exposure to tens of milligram quantities via inhalation, absorption through the skin. Basically, VX is more potent than sarin.

And it can just kill you all the way. You breathe it in, it just touches you. Yeah, like another nerve agent with similar mechanism of action. So nerve agents, are you familiar with how those kill you? They just shut your body down. Saren was used by the Colt Arm Shinrikyo a couple of times in their terrorist attacks, like the Saren at the subway. Oh, yeah. That was Saren. The problem that these guys have with Saren is that it doesn't last long enough. Once it's out, it disperses too quickly.

VX is thick and sticky and kind of oily and like it's everywhere and it sticks to you and like exposure to the skin will fuck you up. So on such exposure, these nerve agents severely disrupt the body's signaling between the nervous and muscular systems, leading to prolonged neuromuscular blockade, flaccid paralysis of all the muscles in the body, including the diaphragm and death by asphyxiation. I did. And I mean it in the most literal sense too. Like ain't nothing rigid.

In addition to gases like VX at Edgewood, they worked on psychochemical compounds. Ooh, now we're talking. I was going to say, like I said before this started, some of this stuff, the four of us would be like, doesn't sound like a bad time. All right, could I get just like one half of it? Right. Well, see, again, in context, it is a bad time because like acid, not bad. Lots of acid. Well, lots of acid. Like 100 doses.

So the experiments began with animals and they moved on to human test subjects, as you do. Question four, they gave LSD to a cat. How did they administer LSD to the cat? Was it A, an injection? B, put on a Grateful Dead album and let him discover it on his own. Ooh. C, like aerosol vapor. Or D, just dunked his face into a bucket of liquid LSD. Sounds like a good time. This, I was going to say, this shows you how much faith people have in our government by how they answer this question, too. Because, like, just give him a little shot. Or did they hold his head underwater in a bucket of liquid LSD? So, Robbie, what'd you say? C. C, aerosol.

Casey says D, dunked his face in a bucket of liquid LSD. They did use aerosolized LSD, and they pumped it into a chamber. Like, they put him in, like, a little glass box. They made him his own little kitty gas chamber. Bigfoot, you're supposed to guess what it actually is, not what you wanted. No, we wish it was. Yeah, they made him his own little kitty gas chamber. Aw, that's cute. And you can watch the video. It's in this documentary. They put him in there, and then they just, like, you see, it looks like a fog machine almost, and it's just aerosolized LSD. And they pumped that in there for a while, and then they set some ice loose in there.

and this cat just has a bad fucking time with these mice. They touch it, and he freaks out, and he jumps, but he jumps too high and hits the top, and he's all freaked out. He's just a cat on LSD being terrorized by four or five little mice. Just forgot he was a predator. Yeah. The cat couldn't walk properly. It was an enclosed, tiny little space and certifiably freaking out, having a bad time. They tested animals again before they tested people, which makes sense, but it's still sad. There's a little cat on LSD. It makes me feel bad for the cat. Not the people? No, fuck the people. I mean, not the people who got experiments on it. Fuck the people who gave the cat LSD. Unless that cat came up and was like, hey.

I want some LSD. Don't give a cat LSD. They can't handle it. I can't handle it. They can't handle it. They use the animals. That's why I don't do it. The animals were used as benchmarks. They dosed a monkey, a rabbit, and a cat, and a bunch of fucking soldiers. A monkey. Yeah, they dosed the monkey. I asked this question the last time because this episode got fucked up.

I was like, oh, like a rhesus monkey or something, right? Like something small? He was like, no. Like a chimp that they sent to space. How did they not just decide to rip their fucking rhesus off? Because it was a bunch of fucking LSD. It was living in a different universe, bro. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, it evolved beyond violence. They never even actually sent a monkey to space. It was just a monkey on LSD. That's right. That's what they did. I read comic books, bro. I know what happens to monkeys when you give them LSD. They learn to talk. And they have superhuman strength. So yeah, the monkey got a space helmet type thing. And it had a hose that blew aerosolized LSD into it.

What animal did they use to test gas masks? Was it monkeys? Was it dogs? Was it goats? Or was it cats? And this is at the point in time, like, again, right after World War I, kind of, or I'm sorry, right after World War II, and gas masks were like a bag.

Oh, okay. Yeah, it was just like a head sack. Robbie says B. Dogs. Casey said, what was it? Monkey? Wait, which one was goats? C. Oh, shit. Okay, dogs. Is that what you want? I want goats. You want goats? Yeah. Goats, monkeys. Robbie gets the points. They did use goats to test the efficacy of gas masks. They would dig trenches around a tower, like a... Like a...

What are the scaffolding? Goats are the closest thing to man. Yeah, I mean, I feel like the monkey would be, but also I feel like trying to do this to monkeys would result in faces getting ripped off. Oh, but not giving them acid. Again, I don't think that's a good idea either, but... For the record. Yeah. They're both bad decisions. Yes. So they would dig trenches around like a scaffolding and then they would tie goats to stakes in the ground at like different distances. And then some had gas masks, some didn't.

And then they would drop like a small gas bomb down the scaffolding, down the middle of it. And it would go off and then disperse the gas. And then they would like come through after everything cleared out. And like some goats with gas masks were just standing there freaked out. And then there's just like a bunch of dead goats. And you're like, yeah, what the fuck? Lots of goats died. Is the meat tainted after that? I feel like it probably would be. Yeah. It has to be, right? Well, because this stuff affects the skin. Yeah, that's true. So some goats died. Lots of goats died. Some got to look cool in like a bad gas mask. It looked kind of like a Slipknot album cover. You said there was video of this stuff, right? Absolutely. Yeah, you can watch the documentary Bad Trip to Edgewood.

And you can see the footage of, like, the cat in the box and the monkey in the space helmet. So from there, again, they moved on to people. They were hoping to find a drug that would allow the soldiers to be lethal, forget what they did, be brutal, and not get hurt. Oh, Hitler already did that. It was called meth, right? Give everybody meth. Well, see, that's the thing. I had, it says right here, they were trying to create super soldiers of sorts. Sounds like another famous group of baddies that we've already talked about, like the Nances. We do have skulls on our caps. Are we the baddies? The good guys never have skulls on their caps.

I used to have a video in here. It was Hitler at the 1936 Olympics. Oh, and he was all tweaking out? Yeah, and I had it titled Tweakler. Touch his leg over and over? Yeah, and when I went to open it up for this. All mad that the Aryans were getting shit on by black Americans. The video was taken off of YouTube, so I was like, ah. So one of the guys that participated in this, his name is Dr. James Ketchum.

He was a retired Army psychiatrist. He retired from the military as a colonel. He did his psych residency at Walter Reed Hospital from 1957 to 1959. He joined the Board of Research there in 1960 and was asked to join the Psychochemical Warfare Studies at Edgewood until 1969. He was in charge of the volunteers for the program, so he was in charge of getting people to come on in. He said, I really don't think it would have been possible to obtain this information without using human volunteers, which...

How did he convince? Oh, actually, no, we talked about that. Yeah, we kind of just fucking lied to him. Yeah, volunteers. The problem is these guys volunteered to test things. Like, they all did volunteer. They just didn't know what they were doing. They didn't know what they were volunteering for. So question number six. Ketchum oversaw a variety of tests, including one called the Cloud of Confusion. What was the project heading for this assignment? Was it A, Project Greenlight, B, Project Grillflame, C, Project Artichoke, or D, Project Dork? Was it Dork that band Pharrell was in?

Both of them say C. Project Artichoke. Both of them are wrong. Project Artichoke. So these are all real things. Project Greenlight was a show on Showtime about getting shows greenlit. Project Grillflame was the astral projection. Yeah. Project Grillflame was the start of the astral projection thing. Artichoke was the start of MKUltra. And then Project Dork was the cloud of confusion. Project Dork was... You don't know me. I'm a rock star. It was essentially a massive trippy cloud that they used to incapacitate soldiers from like 500 to 1,000 yards away. Yeah, like have you ever seen that episode of Rick and Morty? The Fought?

This is a bigger one of those. Pretty much. I rather like this name. They designed this to keep Russian trawlers from getting too close to the coast of Alaska. They would just shoot these like clouds? Yeah.

Um, it was, it was made, it was a cloud. It was like a rocket that would like go over the top of them and then burst. And then, because like I said, these gases are like thick and heavy, they would fall over the top of these boats. And so everybody who like, imagine it goes off. All of the sea life is like, why humans? Why do you have to fight this way? So like, imagine it bursts over your ship. You're like, I'm inside, whatever. And then the cloud settles and you go outside and you grab the handrail and look over the edge. It's oily. It's on there. So now it's on your hand. So it got you anyway through secondary contact.

Oh, God. Yeah. There's giant weird alien insects inside. I mean, so he's not wrong because this is made from BZ, which is different, and we'll talk about that. But question number seven, this guy, this Dr. Ketchum, he was also a lifelong friend of Sasha Shulgin, who created what? Was it A, MDMA, B, LSD, C, DMT, or D, cough syrup? I like them all. I mean, they're all a pretty good time.

Robbie says D. Bigfoot says A. Give Bigfoot the points. Sasha created MDMA. Tripping balls tonight, boys. These guys, when I said earlier that it's like frat boy energy, it is legit frat boy energy. Like walk up to somebody with a fistful of powder MDMA and go, bye. Is that what all these things floating around in my drink were, Frank? Like they said they would just, I drank that, man. Is that what all those little paper pieces were? When did I put Green Man on?

So some of these guys who were brought in for the test were told exactly what's going to happen. They're like, hey, we want to see if caffeine is good to keep you awake and alert. We want to see if nicotine is good to keep you awake and alert. So we're going to keep you guys awake for 36 hours. You're going to get coffee. You're going to get cigarettes. You're going to tell us how you feel. That happened.

Some of these guys were like, here. They draw, like a nurse comes in and she draws a little circle on the back of your hand with a Sharpie and then leaves. And another nurse comes in with an eyedropper and puts one drop inside that circle and writes down the time and then walks out. And then you're in a fucking acid trip for three days with complete amnesia afterwards. That's wild. Holy shit. That's wild. That's what this cloud was that they were shooting over these ships. I'm kind of down for that. That's what I'm saying. In context, it sucks. Somebody was like, hey, take this and take a week off.

Okay. And the guy used to take the BZ and like drop it in people's coffee. He'd be like, hey, we're having a staff meeting. We need all the doctors in here this morning. And then- That's not fucking cool. He'd be like, I need to talk to you. You have the floor, go ahead, speak. And they turn and they're focused on him. And he'd be like-

two drops in this guy's coffee. Guy finishes his coffee and then just gone for three days. So Private Lyman Lewis, he was told that he'd be testing gas masks or over-the-counter cough syrup. They told him he would get a three-day pass every weekend and no latrine duty, no guard duty, and no KP. Some of these guys were being told that they were going to be testing riot control gear and gases. So they're like, okay, we're going to, you know, in case they use gases on us, that's why we're giving you these gas masks. Some guys weren't told anything other than where and when to report.

You'd be here at this time and that's that. And they would do it. You're in the military. That's what you're trained to do. You're literally trained to not say no. They tell you to march off a cliff and you're supposed to march off a cliff.

Or else you're AWOL and you're going to prison and you're facing death. Desertion, baby. Shouldn't have signed on that dotted line. Ask that bow, dude. So some of these guys got their faces sealed into the same kind of box we saw them use on, like the rabbit, because they just held like a rabbit's head and stuck it in a little box, like in a little hole in a box. Some soldiers were told to drive their tank and not deviate from the course, and then they would drop a cloud of gas on them and their path and make them drive through the gas. Maybe like, you know, get from A to B. Tank sounds like a good vehicle to be under the influence of a 3DM LSD. Or VX.

dropping that to see how well it penetrates the tank. It's got a ventilation system on there. It's going to get sucked up in there. Yeah. I wonder what type of ventilation system. Can it get through any ventilation system? I don't see why. Like if the tank has some crazy HEPA system or whatever, would VX make it through? I don't think so, especially at this time. I don't think they had a system. It needed to get in. Right, but they also, it could get in. But yeah, so from 1955 to 1975, over 7,000 soldiers were tested on. Roughly half of them were tested with psychochemicals.

Like atropine, scopolamine, and BZ. They also produce GB or sarin gas and ricin. Ricin. Shout out Walter White. They were involved in identifying the gas used in the Middle East to justify Operation Iraqi Freedom. It really doesn't get any better from here. Private Lyman was asking what they were injecting him with because he was scared and not sick, so he didn't need any medication. They were just like... Shut up and take it. You can't say no! I've never gone through boot camp.

But I know people who have, and they say you stand there, they roll up your sleeves, you march down, they stick you on this side and this side, and they give you your inoculations, your vaccines, whatever, and you just march on down and see the pecker checker and move on. You know how the military was one of the last places that still used the jet injections? You ever seen those? Oh, yeah. The military was still using those much later than the medical.

It doesn't surprise me because the military probably bought a surplus of 10 million of them. And we're like, oh man, we've got these for the next 30 years. We're going to use these on 94. Yeah. Like, cause they have them. Why not? But that's, you know, typical, typical government waste. Um, so yeah, private lineman, he said he didn't, he wasn't sick. Didn't need any medication. Wanted to know what they're sticking him with. They wouldn't tell him.

That's fun. Sometimes it was atropine, which is used to treat nerve agents or pesticide poisoning. If you get pesticide poisoning, they'll give you atropine to help with that. Shout out Monsanto. Do you know what it does to you if you're taking it and you don't have a pesticide? So it can be used to prep for certain medical procedures. According to rxlist.com, symptoms include fast heart rate, high pressure in the eyes, abdominal blockage, worsening urinary retention, and mucus in your airways.

that might require you to get medical help right away if you have any of the symptoms listed above. The most common side effects of atropine include dry mouth, blurred vision, and lack of sweating or sensitivity to light and dizziness. Is this a Cialis commercial? It's, I mean, that's... It's every medication. Because of shit like this, that's why they have to put that at the bottom of all those commercials. Because of stuff like this. People not knowing what they're getting into with medical stuff. And it's through no fault of the people involved, except the doctors. Scopolamine was one that they gave them. It's been in use for centuries. They used it to create zombies back in the day. Haitian zombies? Yeah, when people were really, really sick.

they would use scopolamine and put them in like a waking coma. And so they could be, they could perform simple tasks and stuff like that. So that's where you get like the brain dead zombie coming back from the dead because they would shuffle about. They could carry a box from here to there. They couldn't perform like complex equations, but they could move about. And so they were like the living dead. And that's where zombies came from. According to the Mayo Clinic's website, scopolamine, you can still, I mean, you can get scopolamine now at like a hospital. They have like transdermal patches, which are used to prevent nausea and vomiting after anesthesia, narcotic pain medicines, and surgery. It's also used to prevent nausea and vomiting caused by motion sickness. So scopolamine belongs to a group of medicines called...

Anticholinergics. I don't know. I don't know what that word is. That kind of works. Yeah. I probably put the wrong emphasis on the wrong syllable. We're not doctors. Yeah, definitely. We haven't said it in a couple episodes. But I read about it. Yeah, if you're using this episode, if you're using a show for research, don't. It's not a good idea. Or do. Like, we're not your boss. I'm not your boss. We're not your dad. Do whatever you want. You're not my space supervisor. So, yeah. You're not the manager of this car?

This question, well, so BZ, that shit from Project Dork, originally developed to fight gastrointestinal issues, adopted and tested by the military in 1951, has psychoactive effects, very similar to a very, very, very, very strong LSD. Unfortunately, I kind of blew this question. So how long do the effects of BZ last? Closest to the answer gets 250 points. We gave you the answer, but I don't remember it. I don't remember it either.

In case he says three days, Robbie. I mean. Oh yeah, three days. Three days, that's it. Yeah, three days. Lasts for roughly three days. Good job, boys. Yeah. It gives you a loss of motor function and amnesia, so it buckles you as well. You're not walking around at a Grateful Dead concert. You're not walking around in Woodstock for three days.

crumbled in the corner because your legs don't work. But you're living in another fucking universe. Yeah. I want to go in a K-hole. Some of the soldiers would be led into small rooms and strapped down to bed. Some would be packed in a 9x9 room with only a light and no working door handle. They'd be led into these small rooms and then gassed to unconsciousness, revived and gassed again. These doors were only allowed to remain open for about five seconds.

Like they would open it one to get in shut if they left it open for too long the gas would get out and not be potent I was gonna say I've even been in like bathrooms that were hotboxes where I was like that door needs to be open for longer than five seconds, but I'll get it open I need some fresh air in here Yeah, so that's that makes it even worse that there was like a moment where it seems like you might get It was a big vault door with a little tiny porthole window and it had a handle on the inside, but it didn't work. Well, it makes it worse. Yeah, that's like Frank being in the in the port-a-potting but he thinks he's stuck in the RV bathroom. Yeah How much acid did we do in this episode? A lot. Not as much as these guys, but a lot. But a lot. Yeah. So yeah, regardless of what you just went through in the gas chamber, you've got five seconds to get your shit together and get the fuck out when that door opens. If you don't make it, see you in 10 minutes when we open it back up. Fuck. So the government does this to people, but Ted Kaczynski's the bad guy. The government did this to Ted Kaczynski. I know, that's what I'm saying. He's the bad guy? Yeah. Some of these guys were told that they'd be testing drugs.

They're like, hell yeah, give me drives. If you told me that, I'd sign up. Yeah, give me drives. That seems ambiguous at best. Because, like, legit, sometimes some of what they tested was, like, they called it red oil. But it's honestly...

That yeah, yeah, which it was oh no it was THC like they took super concentrated concentrated I mean these say they're 89% THC or whatever I doubt they really are they might be but what these guys were getting was like 99% THC yeah, but I wonder too if it's like tornado scales where it's like an f4 and f5 are like You know, an F5 is like 20 times worse than an F4. It's like maybe 83% THC is like fucking high, but 99 is like, oh, it'll actually probably kill you. You know, like. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. So these guys are giving red oil, which was essentially like 99% THC. Yeah, like that's, but that's what I'm saying. Like if somebody was like, yo, this is 99% THC. Smoke this and then tell me how you feel.

Okay. It'd be like Homer for the sour candy. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, you can smoke this. You say it's 99%? Oh, you can. It's like 96, I think. So some were told not to question their marching orders and they were given the injection not knowing what was in it. What it would do to them or why it was being tested. Some guys got it easier. Some guys were given caffeine and nicotine. And I have a couple theories on why. It's, I believe they were covering their ass. So when people inevitably talked about...

what their experience was they're like it was cool man they just had me like smoke a pack of cigarettes over a weekend and like stay awake yeah or like you know or not even that they had me run they had me run a mile when i got there had me smoke a pack of cigarettes and then run another mile um and i think so it's so that some of these guys you know one guy's like i had fucking four days of lsd and it was the worst time of my life and i got because if they don't some of those guys that probably were like yo that was the best time of my life some of them yeah and and there's we'll get to that too um But you know if you don't know what LSD is or how it's gonna affect you and you've never heard of it and it's 1948 and you just came from Korea or 1950 you came from Korea and they're like here and they inject you with something and like your body can't metabolize it so it's just straight to the bloodstream straight to the brain and You're just out for four days with no recollection of what happened, but the whole time they're asking you to do math problems Like fuck you up How many Koreans does it take? Six plus six. Triangle. Yeah, and they're just grilling you about shit. Just crying and shit. It was a way to have people give an honest opinion on the experience that they have and have it be positive. For example, I went to Edgewood and they gave me coffee and cigarettes. They had me try something called cargo shorts while I ran a mile with some equipment. Pretty sweet overall. They had me try something called cargo. Super breathable. Yo, they didn't always exist. As opposed to a guy who was on acid for weeks. No one's got a handjob in cargo shorts since Nam. That's why they were like, these have the quick release zipper.

Also, they were likely looking into something about nicotine steadying the hand. You know, like have a cigarette calm your nerves. Doctor recommended. Yeah, these are the cigarettes recommended by your doctor. And this is all starting shortly after some of the same doctors who were Nazis were giving drugs to the SS to create super soldiers. They're called camel non-filter, and we think they're the healthiest of all of the cigarettes. Hold them up. Newports, baby. Give me those Newports. They had a soldier run an obstacle course, and this is in the documentary, and they filmed it. It's fucking hilarious. Question number nine. What drug was given to the soldier before he was asked to run the obstacle course? Was it A.

LSD. B. PCP. C. MDMA. Or D. Good old caffeine. So, Robbie says C. Paul sucks. Bigfoot says B. PCP. Give Bigfoot the points. It is PCP. The way he said that was, you know, B. PCP. I haven't been right since. They gave a soldier a startling amount of PCP and then a set of instructions. Tie game, by the way.

How many questions left? That was question nine, so five questions left. So they gave a soldier PCP and a set of instructions. They had him run an obstacle course that they had set up, like, out in the forest in Maryland. And then at the end, they asked him what his set of instructions were prior to the course.

Like they gave him orders had him run the obstacle do it and then they were like, what did we tell you before so? Basically, they asked him he couldn't he couldn't answer because he couldn't focus They had him run the course like you see him. There's a there's a platform that he's supposed to run and then drop off of and it's Six seven feet high. It's not scary. It's just tall and you're dropping into like dead leaves on the ground It's not it they told him don't touch the platform to get down meaning just step off the edge or jump off or whatever he gets down on his stomach and then like scooches around so his legs are hanging off and then like lowers himself down to get off. And this is a guy who's trying to follow orders and he can't follow a simple instruction like step off the edge. Yeah. How far? Like I said, like six or seven feet. Yeah, like six or seven feet. So it's not like a, it's like coming off the top of the ladder. Yeah. But also you're in peak physical shape. You're in the military. You're all right. So any kid on a skateboard has jumped. Right. Right. Anybody who ever watched Jackass has jumped off a six foot ladder.

Not me. No? No fuck no. You never had your friends tackle you off a ladder because they think it would be funny? If a ladder came out, I was not hanging on that ladder. It's a ladder match! I was more of a chairs guy. So yeah, they told him not to touch the ground, or the platform. As he did that, he still laid down and kind of swung off. You know the logs that they have you hop over the fence? Over, under, over. He got to that and laid on top of it and hugged it to get over. No sense of balance, no equilibrium for being up on this thing.

They interviewed him afterwards and he was just gassed. Dude was spent. It took him longer to finish the... Yeah, because he spent way more... He probably thought it is life or death. Way more energy. He thought he was fucking flying. And he was not. No, no, no. Did you say how long it took him to do it? I don't remember the exact four days. I don't remember the exact... He was sober by the time he got finished. It was quite a bit longer than they expected. So out of breath and spacey, they asked him if he was cold. His face obviously red from the wind and the cold. And he's like...

No, I'm not cold. They say, are you tired? No. I feel pretty good, actually. I feel like I can run 100 miles. I feel like I can do it again. Who is he, Nate? Running 100 miles? He felt like it. Question 10. What caused the soldier to become distracted during his post-game presser? Was it A, a missing button from his uniform? Was it B, a bird that landed behind him on a wrench? Was it C, the microphone of the interviewer himself? Or D, was it just the drugs?

He said, I don't know what to do with my hands. Was it a missing button, a bird, the microphone, or the drugs? Robbie says A. Bigfoot says the bird. Robbie said the button. Give Robbie the points. It was a missing button on his shirt. Just so focused. That can be quite distracting. He's standing there and he's talking and they're like, so the colonel said that he had a meeting scheduled for you. When was that scheduled for? Was it scheduled for Saturday? And he goes, today's Thursday, right? Yes, today's Thursday. Okay, today's Thursday. And he looks down and he goes.

and realizes that he's missing a button, and he just kind of starts looking at the leaves, and then he wanders off. And they're like, uh... That's where I want to be, man, headspace-wise. That's where I want to be. Be here and now, man. He was quickly too focused on... Where's my fucking button? Yeah, he was too focused on the missing button from his shirt, and walked off into the forest to find it. And then that was it? Yeah, it ended. I feel like they gave this poor bastard just entirely too much PCP. Oh, yeah. Like, they're giving him, like, pure lab-made PCP, not the shit that people are getting on the streets that was made by somebody on the streets. This shit is, like, government-made, high-quality, pure PCP, and they're giving him...

Does anything the government do like quality? Well, I think when they're looking to build bio and chemical weapons, yes. They're not going to skimp on that. What does the government do that's quality? Or they just overpay outside contractors to do the quality. The $10,000 hammer. Yeah, quality. Even that, they just take the lowest bidders. Well, see, and two, some of these experiments were done at private hospitals. And we'll talk more about that. But this guy was just giving, again, entirely too much PCP. Some of the doses that they gave these guys for the LSD and the PCP and stuff like that were between 6 and 100 doses. The...

Fuck. And listen, I'm not a scientist. I'm going to just go out there and say, that's too many. Was one of these guys named Michael Ice? Oh, fuck. I mean, I've seen guys on Cops. They're far more athletic-coordinated and focused. They're far more athletic-coordinated and focused than this guy ever was. Or maybe he wasn't given PCP.

that's what i think maybe they gave him something else or but he or they just gave him a whole lot of super fierce pcp but um i feel like if they dialed it back a skosh it might have worked and they might have got what they wanted this guy lived do we know that yeah he lived he survived he just he was still had no button still in the facility you know what i mean like they're in a fenced-in facility it's just you know hundreds of acres in the maryland forest just let him go he can't get far yeah but like if i feel like if this guy had done a better job and like not been so spacey they would just be like administering pcp in the military now you know what i mean like you think about the implications if this guy was just like a stud and it took his fucking obstacle course time from seven minutes to two minutes and 40 seconds because he was at full sprint the entire time. They were like, we want you to climb this wall and just fucking runs through it and leaves a fucking cartoon shape. Like a Wile E. Coyote. Yeah. They're like, you would see this. You would see PCP on the front lines where they'd be like, okay, we're going into battle. Go.

go, and just juice these guys up. That was the whole point of these experiments. That's what they gave Steve Rogers, PCP. PCP. Well, when I did corrections, there was a guy that came in on PCP, and he was able to break his handcuffs, but he broke his own wrist in the process of breaking the handcuffs. Didn't care. Didn't realize it until later on. He didn't realize it. We saw it, and so we had to take him to the med station right away, but they're just oblivious. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, and if you give them too much, they can't focus Obviously like that's anyway So they began the experiments with LSD and dosed a small group of people except for the drill sergeant Like they could they just like a whole platoon shits fucking hilarious How long is the stock doc like an hour like 52 minutes or whatever? They dosed it they dosed them in there like okay go get information like when these guys are already like rolling and they're standing there in formation and then like one of them's like And then they all start to like break down. And like one guy takes his hat off and he's looking at it. And two of them are pointing up at the clouds and talking. You guys were real lit. Again, between six and 100 times a normal dose of LSD. So is that a lot? I don't know what high score means, but I think they broke it. And like, again, everybody's got it except the drill sergeant. So he's there trying to keep everybody. He's got to be just more annoyed than usual. I was going to say he knows that they did it. But he still, it's like at that point it's hurting cats. What the fuck? Yeah. It's got to be frustrating. Like being a parent. Got to be frustrating. Tie your goddamn shoes.

Sorry. They were asked to participate in drills. I know about it. They were asked to participate in like marching drills and all that stuff. And then they were asked, they were told to take like IQ tests and math tests. On PCP? On all this LSD. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure they did it on PCP too. See, the way, if you have a question about this stuff, like, do you think they gave them PCP mixed with LSD and then like sprinkled some cocaine in it? Probably. Yes, they did. Because if you're thinking of it, if you're thinking of it, these guys were paid to think of it and then do it. Yeah. Like implement it.

Like, is Jesus fully God or fully man? Yes. Yeah. I'm neither, but both. So a few soldiers reported seeing giant bugs. Like, he saw a fly. I feel like that's pretty standard. Six to a hundred times. One guy said he saw a large fly that grew to a size that paralyzed him with fear. Probably going to feel some bugs, too. One guy said he saw a large spider, and he said...

He said that it wasn't, he's not afraid of spiders. I'm not scared of spiders, but I'm scared. It was like six feet across. It was a big enough spider to... It was six feet across and just like on the wall across from him. And then like it would occasionally move around the room with him.

And that's fucked up. But I think it's weird that these two guys- I love spiders, but fuck that. Yeah, and that's what he said. He's like, I'm not afraid of spiders, but the sheer size of it freaked me out. I think it's weird that these two guys, not related to each other, weren't sitting there side by side or anything like that, but had this weird predator prey thing with what they saw, the fly and the spiders. I just thought that was weird. One poor bastard. So they had this one guy hooked up to an EKG machine and strapped to a bed under a strobe light. They don't show this in the documentary. But he talked about it. They gave him a bunch of acid.

and had him strapped to a bed with a strobe light, hitting him in the face, and they're asking him math questions. They're like, holy shit. You could have just given him the strobe light and the math questions. And they're asking him fast, too. They're like, take seven from 92. Take seven from 92. Now take seven from that. And what's seven more for taking from that? And now do this while you're on a bunch of fucking asses. And just like. And strapped to a bed with a strobe light in your face. Was I right? Was I right? You got an anger. Oh, coming.

Yeah, there was another guy that they had him hooked up to. He said it was sort of like an EKG machine, but the ones that they put on your head. And they would make him touch his teeth together to short out the machine. And like yeah, it would like to like break the waves like they It's fucked up Then they would ask him questions again on a bunch of fucking acid with a bunch of fucking strobe lights strapped to a bed They would be like does your hand feel like it's part of your body right now, or does it feel like it's part of somebody else's? What is the waterboarding come in? I feel like I mean this is just the cycle They got the waterboarding is going on over in building C. Yeah, you can stay with the tour, and they'll take you over there last

Yeah, they were asking questions like, does your hand feel like it's part of your body? And I gotta be honest, like if somebody asked me that right now, that would kind of fancy. I was gonna say, your hand is already not feeling like part of your body. Yeah, you're just like... Why are they calling fingers? I've never seen a thing. Yeah, like literally any one of these components individually would fuck me up. But combined, like, that's too much. That's entirely too much. One experiment was four guys in a dummy base that they built in the woods. Three of them were dosed with just a fucking shit ton of LSD. And they were given a set of instructions, like listen to comms and then...

Relay the message. So wait, you said that there were four guys, but three of them were dosed. So there's one straight guy out there. One guy out there who's not on acid. It's frustrating. Yo, how has that not become a reality show? It devolved pretty quickly, but. Coming soon to Hulu. What they found out was he started behaving like he was on acid. Oh. Because he was like. Around that. He was questioning it because these guys. Am I? These guys were having, they don't know they're on acid. Right, right, right. So these three guys don't know they're on acid, but then one guy's got the headphones on and he's getting the radio signal and they're telling him.

weird fucking shit. And he's got to relay that message to this guy who has to speak it into this radio that's going back to their base. So they're relaying. And then they turn and they're like, dude, your headphones aren't even plugged in. Well, yeah. Wait, then who was phoned? Who was phoned? Four guys, one cup. Four guys, one base. But yeah, like, could you have three hits of acid out in the middle of the woods? What will happen next? You'll be sure to turn in like 60 hits of acid.

yeah like 60 hits of acid between three guys stuck in a base in the woods like relaying messages and the guy eventually like I said started to crack up because he because he's like what the fuck like kind of adapting to his surroundings right he's like they just said purple monkey dishwasher over the thing that's gotta be it and he's like especially for that purple monkey dishwasher remark yeah and he's gonna be he's like what yeah you know so he puts it on they're like you know have him listen so he puts the headphones on and they're like uh giving just normal right he's like oh okay like freaking out he's freaking out because they're not freaking out you know what i mean yeah so it devolved really quickly it didn't last as long as the experiment they wanted to like they wanted that experiment to last and it did not last i mean are you surprised no not at all right but i think these guys were I think they were genuinely surprised with this shit. At one point outside of the psychochemical warfare division, there was also the chemical warfare division, and these guys were just as bad as the other guys. They may not have been giving insane doses of psychotropic drugs to people who didn't know what they were getting, but they were still- Boring! They were still testing on people who weren't aware that they were being tested on. Say that again? They were still testing on people who weren't aware that they were being tested on. That's sort of the- But signed up for it? That's the American way! No, this is also super against the law. Not the Geneva Convention, it's the Nuremberg Code.

You have to like informed consent another convention. Yeah, another really not fun convention So again these guys working in the chemical warfare division also shitbags experimenting on people without their knowledge So yeah, these guys were not giving insane doses of psychotropic drugs to people who didn't know what they were getting They were testing on people who were just not aware at all. They were testing on the general public Again super against the law What do you mean, on the general public? Like on people at large. Like, hey, can you do this? No. Like you just spray it in the air in a certain city. Like Operation Big City. Like chemtrails? Where they flew a, like the crop duster planes. They flew a crop duster plane over San Francisco and sprayed a bacteria over the city to see how it would affect people. And like 11 people were hospitalized because with complications from it and like four people died. But they classified it as what?

They classified it as COVID. I mean, like... But these people go to the hospital. Right. They got complications. From a bacterial infection. And that's it. Yes. I mean, they had a bacterial infection and it killed them. And it happened to coincide with... It happened to be the same type of bacteria that was sprayed from this plane.

So yeah, you can neither confirm nor deny the bacteria. They drove so here. This is when they filled part of operation big city was they would fill like these glass bulbs like light bulbs with bacteria and then they would go down into the New York subway system and when the trains would go by they would toss it in front of the train it would break and the train would drive through this cloud of bacteria and then they could track how far into the train it made it before it was and this is true. Yeah, this is again called operation big city, but the government's looking out for your best interest. I like I live in happy town like a lot of the time like I decide out of mine. It's like most it doesn't bother me.

So again, they toss these light bulbs down at the subway tunnels to see how far they'd reach with the bacteria. In a DC bus station, along with like 30 other locations, the army filmed their experiments. It reminds me of the bullies on The Simpsons. Videotaping our crime spree was the best idea ever. Full finger discount, dude. Yeah. Check it out. It's the kind I like. It's the kind I like. Had the football on top of his fucking head.

So some of these experiments proved to be fatal after bacteria sprayed over San Francisco. People died due to infections caused by that bacteria. Super fucking weird, not relevant to the world's situations currently. Oh. Not related at all. Irrelevant. Not the same thing. Our government would never do that again. Did it once. Why do we need to do it again? I mean, honestly, I figured you would have a lot of fun with this episode because you think similar to how I think with this stuff.

So yeah, you know these agents involved in these experiments. Damn, what is this? Let's be honest. We know the Army wasn't just the only ones doing this. The Army Chemical Corps wasn't the only guys getting down. You know after they got formed, after 1948, the CIA was like, can we wet our beak in that too? Because we want to make groovy sauce and give it to people. So again, these guys dosed each other for fun. They made it a game. I told you Dr. Ketchum. He would just dose people randomly. There was one guy that worked there, and I can't remember his name, but he was like 6'8". Was Dr. Ketchum an American? His name was Paul Wolf? No, Paul's taller. Yeah, Paul Tall. But this guy was like 6'8".

300 pounds. Big guy. So this guy would test all these drugs too. Like before he gave them to people. So I got to respect that. If you're going to give somebody a bunch of groovy sauce, test it first. Groovy sauce. And he would do that. And then the problem was he would do these drugs and then rip the lab apart in like a fit of whatever drug he was in. He would do a bunch of PCP and just destroy the fucking lab. And they'd be like, well, fuck. Like that was three weeks worth of work we got to put back. And then he became the smiley face killer. He would just be out for a while. He said, I used to do drugs. I still do. I still do. But I used to do. We're going to take a break. Come back or we'll kill you. Perfect.

Welcome back. If you're seeing this, we don't have to kill you. Which is good, because I'm a lazy, lazy man. If you're hearing it too, we also don't have to kill you. No, only if you can see it. If you can hear this, but you can't see it. That's why I said I'm a lazy man. Boys, calm down. Don't throw things in class, please. That was aggressive, bro. So sorry.

You're the one that gave him whiskey. Whiskey. That's your fault. You did this. My bad. So we were talking about these guys being general shitbags and dosing people without telling them and experimenting on people without telling them. And these agents involved in these experiments, again, you know it wasn't just the Army Chemical Corps. You know the CIA had to wet their beak. They had to be involved. So they had to get real weird with it. They took dosing each other as a game. We talked about that one guy who was like 6'8", 300 pounds and he would just do a bunch of drugs and then rip the lab apart and disappear for three days. You'd go out to coffee with him and he'd be like, boop, in your coffee. And then like, what the fuck, dude? I've got shit to do this afternoon.

Not anymore. Too bad. You are incapacitated for the weekend. So I'm supposed to go visit my in-laws. Well, you're welcome. Not death. Death. Yeah. I got shit to do today. So dosing each other actually led to the death of Agent Frank Olson. He leapt to his death nine days after he was unknowingly given LSD. Was that Project Wormwood? Is that AKA thrown from a window? Yeah. I mean, so he leapt through the window.

He didn't open the window. It was like a it was a set it up was like a 10th floor apartment or 10th floor hotel You left but didn't open the window right? He didn't open the window, but he didn't open the drapes He just because when the guy how do we know because the guy on the floor who saw him hit Looked up to see where he came from and could see the drapes blowing out the window. What happened to the guy that saw it? That's what he said happened, but I mean like after that nothing like he's just a we was just when there were a bunch of there was enough not lining up evidence. You can't kill everybody, Robbie. There was enough not lining up evidence. I just assume they kill everyone, right? They try. They really fucking try. Or the Ace Ventura. And he's like this, you know, double pane glass. Exactly. Yeah, he's over there.

I was looking at it. Yeah, there he is. Yeah, you see the man. So yeah, there's actually, there's a deal on Netflix, like a series on Netflix called Wormwood, and it's about Frank Olsen and what happened to him. They take a little bit of- It's like his family and shit, right? Yeah, they take some Hollywood liberties with it, but it's, yeah, but it's, what happened was he developed like severe depression really fast after they gave him LSD. He didn't know what was happening. He wasn't-

I mean, he knew what it was, and he knew what it did. He wasn't fucking ready for it. He wasn't ready for it. He was at a dinner party, and they just dropped it in a drink. Unbeknownst to him. Right, and then served drinks. Fuck. And so some guys got it, and some guys didn't. And he didn't have a good time. And in the ensuing weeks, he just kind of kept declining and went downhill. He got paranoid. He had super high anxiety. So that's why they say he threw himself through this window. In reality, he was staying in this hotel room with another CIA agent. And that guy was...

Was he was either on the crapper he was asleep when it happened to all this yeah, if I remember ready was a So there was another guy named Harold Blauer he was a victim of these experiments as well What was Harold question number 11? What was Harold Blauer's profession? Was he a doctor a teacher a concert violinist or a tennis pro? And we also didn't tell you. You've got 12 hella Greg questions, but then I take over. There's a Jesse story at the end of this. A Jesse story? There's a Jesse story. We got D, Paul sucks, and A, give the points to Robbie. He was a tennis pro.

All right, so Harold Lauer was a professional tennis player. Oh, yeah. He was in a psychiatric institute for depression, and he was being treated, along with five others, by these doctors. And 15 years and one lawsuit later, they found out he was being experimented on. His family found out. For you audio listeners, Greg put quotes around treated and doctors. Yeah, because how did they find out he was being experimented? Because he died there. He died there. Greg put quotes. Is that you doing quotes? Yeah. I mean, it's an alien calling me a producer.

With the biggest air quotes possible. No, that's a much better one. Oh, my God. They're doing quotes. Yeah. You can get that in our sticker store. Serialchillerspod.com. Check it out. Boom. So his timeline, January 8th, 1953, between 953 and 957, he was injected with 450 milligrams of EA-1298. Now we call it MDMA.

It was injected directly into his system so it couldn't be metabolized by his body. At 957, he became restless and had to be restrained. He was sweating profusely and flailing his arms wildly. This was all under like a... Under laboratory conditions. Yeah. Again, he checked into this place because he was feeling a little bummed out. He had depression. He was in there to be treated for his depression. Good for him. Right. This is what they were doing to him instead of treating him. He was in the military. No. He was a professional tennis player. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got that right. Yeah. Instead of some Prozac. Yeah. Instead of being like, hey, why are you feeling sad? Instead, they did this.

So he's a regular ass fucking guy. I mean, he's a professional tennis player. He's just a civilian. Checked himself into a psychiatric facility in Maryland. And this place decides, we're going to do this. The military decided, we're going to experiment on him, him, him, and him. And this guy said, okay? The doctors? The doctors didn't have a choice. Remember before we went to break, we said that these ones that Greg's going to talk about, these were ones that they just did. They did not tell him, hey, we're going to experiment on you. Are you cool with that? Yeah, they just did this.

Fuck. Yeah. Your little bubble has been burst. Well, dude, like, yeah, I agree. Like, a lot of this shit would be like, oh, yeah, fuck yeah, yeah. Yeah, it sounds like fun, but you want to know about it. Like, this guy was feeling depressed and like, oh, I need help. And so they- I'm also thinking 2023 terms. Right. This is, yeah, this is not that. Yeah, obviously not. I don't know. What, 60 years ago? 70, 80? I think this was in the 70s. Yeah, yeah. But don't be mistaken. It still happens. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it still happens. I don't disagree. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So at 9.57, after he got injected, he became restless and had to be restrained, sweating profusely and his arms flailing wildly. 10.01, he stiffens up in bed, clenches his teeth and foams at the mouth. And this went on for about an hour. Because they gave him what? They gave him 450 milligrams of MDMA. Fuck. At 11.05...

He continued talking and movement, still showing previous symptoms of foaming and tight muscles. And they watched him. Yeah, they're watching this happen. Imagine for an hour, just every muscle in your body is rigid. Like how exhausting that would be. Like that's literally something that is exhausting when you do it for 10 seconds. I was going to say, do wall sets for an hour. Has anybody ever done the like, the party box?

Where it's like the two poles and someone cranks the thing. Oh, yeah. You just do it in your forearms. Yeah. Like, you're dead. You're dead. So, yeah. That's nearly unfathomable. 64 minutes of that. All because he decided I'm going to check myself into this place to get some sort of help. Because I'm kind of depressed. I'm kind of depressed. So roughly 90 minutes after the injection was completed, he collapsed into a coma and died. And then he was pronounced dead at 12.15 p.m. I'm with you. Listen, listen, listen. Fuck the government. I'm not depressed anymore. True. I mean, that's true. That's true. That's true. That's true. What makes this story dead?

So what makes the story a little more sad is that the doctor who gave the injections was asked under oath what he gave him. And the doctor, under oath, his direct quote was, we didn't know if it was dog piss or what it was. Because they didn't ask questions. The military gave him this and said, inject him. And he said, all right. And then tell us what happens. Okay.

And that's that with that. By the way, he died. And then what happened to this doctor? Nothing, nothing. Nothing, right? No, what happened to him? What happened to the military? Nothing. Right, I mean, like, I don't know if it was dog piss or this. Like, okay, under oath. Malpractice lawsuit? No. Nothing. Nothing. Scott free. Congress ordered that they were allowed to follow up on the subjects to look for long-term effects of the tests as part of a settlement with the courts. So Congress did say, hey, you gotta check up on these guys. That's not cool. Question number 12. Of the 7,000 subjects, half were experimented on with no knowledge. Of that half.

how many were followed up with. So of the 3,500 who didn't have any knowledge that they were being experimented on, how many? Yeah, closest to. Closest to gets 250 points. 500 if you nail it. I'm over. I feel like I'm over with this. Casey says 170. Robbie says 200. Of the 3,500 human test subjects.

220 were followed up on and it was determined that there were no long-term physical effects. I feel like of the 3,500 they should have checked up on, 220 seems way low. Yeah, exactly. That seems way low. 3,500? 3,500 people and they checked on 220.

And they said of that 220, there were no long-term physical effects. I'm getting mad. Good. You should. I'm getting mad at this. Good. Yeah. He's just going to call you later tonight, Bigfoot. He's like, yo, I have some questions. We're going to Outwater tomorrow. He and I are going to run an hour away. The whole fucking car ride. I'll give you some recommendations on shit to listen to to fuel that fire. I'm going to listen to Arlene Wernos. Arlene Wernos? Yeah.

Of the 3,500, 220 were followed up on, determined there were no long-term physical effects. However, 24% reported psychological effects. Flashbacks, depression, and alcoholism led the pack of their complaints there. One guy checked out his service pistol from the armory, went back to his barracks, gave a class on how to disassemble and clean the pistol. He sat there and basically was demonstrating for a classroom of people how to disassemble the pistol. And he was interrupted by an officer who walked in and asked, son, what in the hell are you doing? And he explained the class, and then he realized he was the only person in the room.

There was no group of people. There was nobody else there. He was sitting there and he was giving the class to himself, but he thought it was a classroom full of people. He was having like an acid flashback. Because they gave him acid? They gave him BZ. They gave him acid. Who knows what they gave him? I mean, like, of all the weird trip hats you could have, that's kind of, you know, that's cool. You're like, oh shit, there's no class here. Well, guns clean. But he went to the armory and checked out a weapon while having an acid flashback. This episode's really tripping me out. How was he able to do that, I guess, is the biggest question here. Fuck. I mean, I...

I'm not a doctor, but apparently neither were these guys. Obviously, this is shit that I don't know, so it's really, really tripping me out. It's fucking weird, dude. I know that, like, government's in your best interest and yada, yada, yada, and all that, but, like, dang, man. Yeah. Yeah, man. Happy Town is no longer Happy Town. You yada yada'd sex? I yada yada'd the bisque. So once it dawned on him that he was, in fact, the only person in the room, he reassembled his pistol and went and turned it back in, he wasn't able to get any help.

Partially because he was in the military in the early 1950s, there's a certain stigma about mental health. If you went and talked to an army psychiatrist, you're going to be treated differently. And he would have been discharged as being mentally unstable. He said, I wouldn't have been able to provide for my wife and five or six kids. Five or six? I mean, they gave him enough acid that he gave a class to nobody. Clark, Lisa, and the other one. Who is Margaret Simpson? Lady, you got the wrong file. That's Maggie. I got nothing against her.

So he internalized all this shit. There were reports of others becoming physically violent. One man put his wife through a wall. Like he had a... Different guy. Separate guy. He said he came to and had his wife by the neck and had put her through like the drywall in their kitchen. And then was like, oh shit. And like, what the fuck? And like freaked out.

Yeah, there were reports of people becoming physically violent. One man put his wife through the wall and didn't remember anything. Later, as a result of the depression, he committed suicide. One soldier became an epileptic and suffering from a variety of seizures while still raising a family and staying in the military and trying to convince himself that he wasn't going crazy because he was having acid flashbacks and then he was having seizures and then having all that happen throughout and not being able to tell anybody anything because a lot of these guys, there was a certain amount of NDA. You're not allowed to reveal what happened. Like I said, they're in the military. This is classified. You're not allowed to talk about it. You're not allowed to tell anybody about it.

You're not allowed to tell a psychiatrist about it. You can't tell your family. So your family doesn't know what you've been going through. They don't know that you just spent six weeks in the wood being dosed with acid to amnesia and then are now back trying to live a normal life. And the guys seem to not be apologetic about this in the slightest. Dr. Ketchum said that had more people known what was involved, he thinks they would have had more volunteers. And he said he regards the whole thing, quote, as a generally positive experience.

For the doctors exactly like there was there was zero aftercare provided something worth noting the the guys in this Documentary they use the term shell-shocked a lot. I think I need to like stop thinking in terms of now Yeah, see that's what that's what I'm saying. They use the term shell-shocked a lot now do like we take care of a veteran No, no, you're not wrong in that but like how at least I don't speak for me But like how important we emphasize how important mental health is and like taking care of yourself Yeah, that's what the last three years. Oh no, I don't disagree with you I agree with you and like hearing this is just like it's super disheartening this fucking depressing so again they use the term shell-shocked a lot because they didn't know what PTSD was oh yeah so these guys have a term called shell-shocked which describes right when your brains hurt yeah like they don't know those concussive blasts yeah they don't know what's going on in here is actually like something going seriously wrong but they're still trying to control minds with like NK Ultra and they're still trying to astral project and they're still trying to do all this dumb shit but they don't understand that they're scarring people for life and destroying their brains

These guys were shell-shocked, but they had PTSD, and they didn't know what it was. They knew it wrecked your head, but they didn't know how to fix it. They had to deal with it. Yeah, these motherfuckers are trying to crack a human brain with drugs, and they don't even understand PTSD. Hallucinogens are now being used to help treat PTSD, and these assholes could have been at the forefront of this stuff. They could have actually used it to help people, and instead, they could have been helping people whose lives were ruined by sending them to die in pointless wars and ruining their minds by exposing them to these awful things, and they could have been helping them, but they chose not to. They had potentially a solution right in front of them the entire time, and were so busy trying to weaponize it that they got lost in the sauce.

And what really kills me is there's a soldier who was isolated from the rest. He was told it was because he was black and he was isolated to protect him from the other soldiers who wanted to kill him. Don't. What? But this guy, they talked to him afterwards. They interviewed him. This poor fucking guy. He said he was kept on LSD for a very long time, but he can't remember if it was a month or three months. That it was like 24 hours a day for 90 days. Continuous. Continuous. Like you go to sleep on LSD. You have LSD dreams. You wake up on LSD. That's your new normal for 90 days.

And it's, again, between... It's probably kind of tight, to be honest. Between six and a hundred doses. Between six and a hundred times a dose, every dose. It's like having you drink it and give you a shot glass in the morning. Yeah, just all those LSD. We'll give you some orange juice after. That sounds all right. We are very extremes on this tonight. And this guy said, in this interview, he said, the whole thing tugs at his patriotism. He's still loyal.

After this. Like, he signed up to fight for what he believes in. Right. Regardless of what the actual intention was of the wars. You're told that you're out there fighting so the rest of the world can live like you're allowed to live. You're spreading for him. That's what he believed in. That's what he wanted to do. And they did this to him. They kept him on LSD, isolated, for 90 days. Right. So, like, fuck him, but the country. Right. But here's the happy ending. At least they can sue the government, right? No. You can't. The U.S. government has immunity by all sorts. Right. So, when you sign up, you're literally signing it all away. So, uh...

Bro, this episode is making me mad. Well, good, because we're done. That's the end of my freaking report. Well, the moral of the story is, read the fine print before you sign your life over to the government. Yeah, and then just also maybe don't. I feel like that's where Jesse and I just live in Happy Town. I mean, he has to deal with this shit all the time because I text him. I text him this shit and I'm like, hey, do you realize that this and that are happening? He's like, I...

Don't want to hear this. I wouldn't watch it. Yeah. I would not watch it. So I get, I get glimpses. Yeah. I'm good with that. Yeah. So that's the end of my freaking report. That's the, that's all I've got for, uh, for Edgewood. Jesse has the last two questions in a story for you. Um, throw to one more and we'll do it. Yeah. So we're going to do, uh, we're going to go to another break. Come back. We'll fucking kill you.

Welcome back, everybody. Even if you're back, Greg, I'm still sending Greg out to kill you. That's just how we're doing it. All right. So this story is taken mostly from a write-up by Sirian Varley in a bbc.co.uk article titled simply, The Teen Who Shot His Parents. Question number 13. In what year did this event take place? 250 points to the closest. 1,000 points if you can nail it. And for what it's worth, you got it like Bigfoot there. You need to nail it. In what year did this event take place? All right. Robbie says 2013. Bigfoot says 2016. A tragedy just took place.

Because Robbie nailed it for 1,000 points. Oh, fuck yeah! Putting the lead to just an insurmountable amount. Question number 14 will be just for funsies and for Robbie to possibly break the record for most amount of points scored. I don't know officially what it is, but 3,000 is a high score. Yeah, 3,000 seems up. Okay, so. Can I guess what the story is? Sure. Not for anything, but like, is it a kid that killed his parents and had a party? No, that's Tyler Hadley. I feel like you all did that before. Yeah, yeah, we have covered that. So this is a different one. It starts with a quote from the young man who is the teen who shot his parent. It says, quote.

I walked into their bedroom. I raised the gun. I don't know why. And then I remember having these really quick thoughts of, you don't have to do it. But they were so quick and suddenly gone that I didn't really have a chance to think about it. And before I realized that, I had done it. I pulled the trigger and the gun had gone off. I fired again and then I fired again. I ran down the hallway and I sat down on the stairs and that's when it really clicked what I had done. So that's a direct quote from the confession of Nathan Brooks, a 16-year-old run-of-the-mill high school student. On March 8, 2013, he would do just as he told...

He would do just as he told us and put multiple bullets into the heads of his parents. He did so with a Smith & Wesson .22 revolver, and he had removed it from a locked box in a separate bedroom earlier that night. So before they all went to bed, he snuck into a separate room that contained guns. Yeah, whatever. He stole the key. I don't think there were a family that checked on the guns every evening. So he took the key, got the revolver, took it to his room, let his parents go to sleep.

So there are cameras inside the house that show Nathan in his underwear running through the house with a revolver in his hand just before he'd run in and shoot his parents. It's like he was psyching himself up. I didn't see the footage, but I did see stills from the footage. It's like he's in a white t-shirt, white tighty-whities. Well, there's footage from in the house. Not of the shooting. They had a living room camera or whatever.

Yeah, there's footage of him in his underwear running through the house before he shot his parents. So, he shot his mother below one eye and some other not as serious places, and his father had been shot multiple times in the head, including the forehead. Beyond all odds, both of his parents survived. Even more insane, and I know it's a .22, but getting shot in the head with any caliber weapon is generally going to be a dangerous situation. And .22s, we talked about this, .22s are the most deadly. It does the ricochet. Yeah. So, even more insane.

They were both conscious, and John, Nathan's father, was able to make a call to 911 in which he'd tell them that he had just woken up and his whole family had been shot. I remember this now. He'd been shot in the forehead, in the cheek, and I think, like, once in the chest. And the mom got one here and, like, a couple in the shoulder. And both of them were just awake. This is a fucked up episode, you guys. I mean, I got kids. They might do this shit. The entire event was seemingly out of nowhere as relatives, teachers, and other students were all quite complimentary of Nathan and his behavior. Essentially, they, like, went out and they were, like, searching for someone that would be like, all right, yeah, he said some fucked up stuff about his parents. And, like, I didn't know who to tell, but, like, just, like, by, I mean, everybody he knows, like, his grandparents, his aunts, his uncles are like.

No idea. Who the fuck knows? It had to be video games. No one saw any signs of anything like this in his future. While in police custody, Nathan seemed very willing to tell his story, and he was absolutely crushed by what he had done. The police say, like, we've seen kids fake remorse. We've seen kids have remorse.

This is a kid who had remorse. He was remorseful for what he had done. He was not stoked that he shot his parents. You can't unshoot your parents in the head, jackass. When he was told that his parents had survived, he was extremely relieved. Also during the police interview, an officer asks Nathan what he had intended to do with the gun that night, to which Nathan replied, quote, what a gun does, kill.

There seems to be very little that pushed Nathan to get to this point. He had gotten grounded from electronics, made to do extra chores that weekend, and missed a basketball tournament that he was a play in due to a detention that he had received. So, like, his parents were, like, a little bit on the stricter side. Yeah, like, you got a detention, you were an asshole in school, you don't get to do your tournament this weekend, you're doing extra chores, and I get your iPad. You're a regular-ass fucking parent, quote-unquote, disciplining their kid. Yeah, and you know what's funny is I initially ran across a story about, like, kids who killed because of video games. Yeah.

He had got his electronics taken away. And that's all I even put in here. And that's even this article I appreciated. That's all they had to do. They weren't like, because he got his video games taken away, it turned him into a murdery fuckface kid. I'm not saying he wasn't a fuckface because he had other reasons for it apparently. But apparently his parents were, like I said, on the stricter side. And you're like, no. And I'm also a dad. And I'm like, yeah, also. I don't know. My kids aren't at the age of detention yet. But like. Right. But they're at the age of like discipline. Yeah. Taking shit away. Yes. So.

Nathan says that having the basketball tournament taken away from him was like the clique. The prosecuting attorney wanted Nathan to be tried as an adult, although he was only 14 at the time of the attack. The attorney, Angus Lee, argued that if he tried a juvenile, he would only be held until he was 21 and then be free and then likely be a dangerous to society. The court decided to try him as an adult. At 14. Well, he's 16 now. I'm sorry. Yeah, but he was 14 when he committed the crime.

One of the two counts of attempted murder, Angus Lee, was claiming that Nathan would do between 40 and 50 years in prison. Since his parents were in the middle of it all, they said that they were actually left out of the loop quite a bit. And John would say, the father, quote, the prosecutor's office wouldn't talk to us because we were the parents of the accused. The defense attorneys wouldn't really talk to us because we were the victims. So we didn't really know what was going on at any time. But we did feel that Nathan did need to be punished, he explains, adding, part of the realization we've come to is that we couldn't provide the treatment that Nathan needed. The court could provide that.

So his parents are like, he needs to be punished, but we also need to be a part of this, I feel like. Yeah, they seem super reasonable for two people who got shot in the head by their kids. Supportive? Yeah, this is the one I'm thinking of. The two parents in court were like, oh, we forgive our son. It is. Not in court, in an arraignment, because he pleads out due to... I mean, they literally have due to... Many people come in and speak to his character in an arraignment, so he avoids...

The trial, which leads to the last question, just for funsies, throwing up a Hail Mary. Just for funsies. Question 14. For how long will Nathan be sentenced to prison? He's going to take a plea deal. That's what it is. It's a plea deal that he gets. I'm not going to tell you what it's for. I'm just going to let you guess what it is. Okay, Bigfoot says 18. Robbie says 10 years. Nathan got 15 and a half. I would have taken 15 years in prison.

Yeah, he takes a plea deal. Okay, shoots his parents in the face. What do you think he would be charged with? Like, they didn't die. Okay, so what's that when you try to kill somebody? I would say, I mean, 25? I'm saying, what's the... Attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon. Yeah, yeah, that's what he pleaded out to. It was two counts of assault with a deadly weapon. Aggravated assault. Assault, not attempted murder. Nope. But assault with a deadly weapon. I mean, he only got 15 and a half years. Attempted murder would have been that, like, 40 to 50 year sentence. But because of all the character witnesses and his parents. He's such a good boy. We forgive him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were right. You totally nailed it. That's his parents, like, came.

to his aid. He would take a plea deal for two counts of assault with a deadly weapon, and in February of 2016, Nathan was sentenced to 15 and a half years in prison. His parents are still in contact and regularly visit him in prison. His mother says that she is glad they didn't die so that Nathan doesn't have to carry that with him. What a fucking lady, huh? Hey, but give me the points, though. No, that's Bigfoot's points. It's 15 and a half. He said 18. You said 10. What did you say? 18? Yeah, Bigfoot's points. I still don't know.

So he takes a plea deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What a lady, right? I'm glad we didn't die so he didn't have to carry that with him. That's a mom. I remember watching the video because they have a video of them talking about it. There's a whole documentary also titled, I think it's the teen that shot his parents. I watched a much shortened version of it. I mean...

I don't know. Like, I don't know. After somebody shot me in the face, how... Yeah, like I said, you and I are homies, but if you shoot me in the face, dude, we're not friends anymore. But homies is a different connection than a child and their parent. Like, totally different thing. Me, we don't know about that. Child free for life. Jesse.

So Nathan is still trying to come with grips for what he did under his psychiatric – for what he did and is under psychiatric care and has years' worth of observations, and they do not believe that he has any personality disorders or any antisocial traits. So literally he's getting the – I mean the best that a prison can offer in mental health care, and everybody's like – It's just a guard who's like, go back to your cell. Lay down. Shut up. So I mean he's – multiple psychiatrists, psychologists, people have come in. They've –

tested him, and he is diagnosed with nothing that you would expect for somebody who went in and shot their parents in the middle of the night. Said that like, oh, voices told me not to for a second, but I just did it anyway. His main doctor stated that they hadn't observed anything in him that would lead them to believe that he was at all psychotic. The only diagnosis that he has received since being incarcerated is clinical depression, which I feel like if anybody got incarcerated, you'd probably sleep to that. You know what the treatment is for that? Okay. 450 milligrams of MDMA straight to the brain. This would be a CIA volunteer. Yeah.

This is the last quote from Nathan. It says, quote, to sit there and think and not know why it was terrible. And knowing that you caused so much pain, not having the answer was very, very difficult. He's saying like he didn't. He didn't know why he did it. I felt very guilty about it because how could I do such a thing and not even know why? That's rough. That's like how the story of possessions come about. You know what I mean? I have no idea why they did this. From a parental side, what could I have done differently? Well, that was just what they said. We tried. Could I have loved him more? I love him playing that basketball turn.

Affirmation. That's the answer right there. So his parents are supportive. They visit him all the time. Nathan is due for release in 2028. You know what he sounds like? He sounds like a kid who's never had...

adversity. You know what I mean? He sounds like it was like the first time they really buttoned down on you're not doing the tournament, no electronics. No Pokemon for you. Yeah, somebody folded every time and finally the parents were like, okay, we're going to stick to this one. And when they finally stuck to it, he didn't know. He's Eric Cartman. He didn't know how to react to being told no, so he made it into a way bigger thing than it had to die. No, because I... Go ahead. No, that's it. I mean, that's the show. That's what I got. Robbie's the bigger. Let it play his theme song one time. Love you. Peace out. I'm out.

What's the deal with Ovaltine? It's not round. They should call it round team. It's gold, Robbie. Gold.

Congratulations, Robbie, on your victory. Quite a high score, my friend. Yeah, doled him up. That doesn't happen to Bigfoot often. That's right. We've got plenty more episodes. But I'm still the one that doesn't cry. Fair. Who wins here? True. Who wins here? I cry. Ladies, hit me up. I cry. Bigfoot, is there anything you'd like to add from the podium still? Second place podium. Yeah, baby. Don't trust the government. That's probably some of the most sage advice we've had. And just so you know, government, I know you're listening to this. If I have the chance, I'll ****.

Not me. Not me. All right. Hello, Greg. Anything you'd like to add to that? No, he nailed it, dude. You mean, I got to follow that? Yeah, I mean, what am I going to do? I'll triple stamp his double stamp. Hell yeah. Oh, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la. All right, guys. Go to SerialChillersPod.com for everything. The social mediagrams, the Threadless store goes there. So if you want to wear something with our dumb faces or one of our dumb sayings, Threadless store, connect it through SerialChillersPod. If you want to give it to the show monthly, Patreon.com. The next episode you see will be from our new office. Help us pay for it. Patreon.com. You guys, we, they're...

Every level gives you something we try to give back in an equal way. And if you don't want to give monthly, totally understandable too. We have a way where you can just give a one-time donation. Serialchillerspod.com. So do that. Hang out with us. Join the Discord if you want. Super fun. It's a lot of true crime, but a lot of stuff that's not true crime. So, you know, hang out with us. If you want to hang out with us, that's the best way to do it. We're always in the Discord. You can find that through Serialchillerspod.com.

Greg, throw the contact app real quick because I can't remember the... Yeah, PO Box 1229, Clovis, California, 93613. You can call or text us 1-805-666-2513. Does anybody have anything important to add? Lonelyfans.com with two Zs. Robbie McFly on Instagram. For Bigfoot, for Robbie, and for Hello Greg, I am Cromulent Jesse. Remember, don't talk to strangers. Okay, bye.