You're listening to the Wisps wasatch in wasatch investigative studies wasatch investigative studies a paranormal science show which apparently is yet another acronym for a supernatural hour of what why you doing this to me man. Hey welcome back to the wish show this is your host Castle and co-host Tim yeah I'm not introducing you can introduce yourself I didn't know we had to introduce ourselves as well our fifth interview I don't know man we're just gonna splice us all together crap what's going to the world most part of the show is crap but you guys listen anyway so thank you so we're gonna bear ourselves here because we're here with the guys from care Kate RGA he's a little list so we've got Warren and Jason here with us what up K RGA radio K G R G R G R K G R K G R A sign it's the global radio line right after sure you go he's your sign and it's K G R A radio dot com yes now for listeners what is K G R A radio well it's a radio network that one and I and a couple other radio host built together we were all on a network together previously another network and we didn't kind of like the way they were doing things and so we decided to break off and do our own radio network it's largely based in paranormal and ufology and we've got some of the biggest names out there in those fields on our network now doing live shows every week so okay I was gonna ask if their live shows or podcast and they're all live show I feel okay and if someone want to go back in the past episodes I assume those are all archived there we go and they are free okay so tell us a little bit about UFology we do a lot of stuff but we don't do a lot of UFology stuff so educate us not gonna lie I'm right there with you we started out in paranormal as well we really did what Warren is just a pretty face here yeah oh we're screwed then we're all screwed no I think you know you guys know in the paranormal it's kind of a lot of speculation and a lot of feeling and a lot there's not a lot of science behind it and we endeavor when we try to be paranormal stuff to look at it as scientifically as possible but there is no science that's you can't pick it up and play it in a piece of nation take it back to a lab and analyze it now you follow these a little different sometimes it's the same but sometimes there's actual evidence and proof there's tons of eyewitness testimony from all kinds of high-ranking military people and pilots and all kinds of stuff that attest to the presence of UF UFology and aliens and so I know there's I think there's a lot more sustenance to UFology than there is the paranormal I don't know about that but we can agree to disagree you don't right now tell me why all right show me UFO well there's all kinds of photographs yeah I went into accounts there's all kinds of military stuff and when you go on a when you go to a normal investigation you can gather readings of anomalous things that happen at the same time people say hey something's going on right so I mean it's the it's equivalent to me fine goodbye fine the way look at the UFO is I mean it simply stands for unidentified flying objects so if I see some find this guy I don't know what it is it's you all right by definition that's what it is right as far as there being aliens or anything inside of it I have no idea so help me out here and this is a question I'm glad you guys are here because you guys can kind of play with this question for me now when it comes to UFology versus paranormal paranormal I can go into a house that's had reports of paranormal activity and I can kind of spend a few hours several hours with my equipment look for anomalous readings get EVPs go home with some audio and Bing bam bam bam I've got an EVP maybe right go for my photos now UFology I look outside and that's guys mighty big it seems like I could go out there and spend weeks months years and see absolutely nothing sure which most of us have yes so if you're gonna do UFology stuff how do you guys pick a location how do you pick a night it just seems like it's a much bigger crapshire than a paranormal investigation it's all a different animal for sure and you really kind of have to wait for a sighting or a report and there's a lot of people that do sky watches that's what they do they'll have a party and they look at the sky and they're thinking they also have equipment night vision things that will bring out things in the in the high atmosphere that you wouldn't see with the naked eye however you can still get you like Jason said you have to wait for a report but you can still get physical evidence you've got reports of flying saucers that land in a field and there is a mark there there's higher radiation there and now crops will grow on that no matter what people do just in that little circle all right that's kind of weird and you can take soil samples you know there is evidence that you can't take back to second is that proof of UFO no no but there's something an almost going on so that's we're castled into the bathroom it's just a peace box he's got a radioactive poop I think there's a lot more history and you follow g2 because it goes way back you know it's a little bit more as well all that kind of stuff and it's and some of that has been documented by the military I think it's all equal I really in my opinion it's equal so let me ask you we mentioned the field thing and where you act to pee crop circles is that a UFO thing or is that a whole standalone that could very well be paranormal I don't mean it could be a hoax a lot of them are hoaxes a lot of them are but you know it's it's a thing all of them you know and even if 99 percent of hoax and 99 percent of sightings of ghosts or haunted activity is a hoax and you know bigfoot 99 percent of that is a hoax we're not looking at the 99 percent stuff we're looking at that 1 percent stuff that what is that right because that that's where everything tips right there if you you know if there's 1 percent of things that that we can't explain what is that there's something there something there when it comes to UFOs can we say it's not our government no no I mean we lost what three trillion dollars somebody just lost under their mattress somewhere yeah that's got to be somewhere you look back at the first stealth aircraft we did and it makes you wonder how many of uh area 51 sightings out there were the first stealth fighter before we unveiled it to the public right so again yeah how much that is the government doing stuff that they're just not talking about because one trillion dollars magically disappeared into black budget somewhere right yeah so cattle mutilations let's talk cattle mutilations while we're talking you know all stuff uh what are you guys opinions on that has that tie in government UFO maybe a little bit of both maybe it's hard to say I don't know what the government needs with cow but Linda Molten how it probably the leading potentially I don't know Linda Molten how it's probably one of the best researchers for cattle mutilations and I don't even think she can explain it right I'm sure she's got opinions she's wrote in many books and done many onsite investigate fresh investigations right and I don't think she could even answer that question she's probably got opinions but so I know like area 51 other hotspots around the country or the world or kind of the mecca of I mean Doug was new area 51 right here in Utah right so there's that there's uh what's that one outside of Roswell what's that we're going to I can't remember I just drove like anyway we're going to here in about a month we're going down to Mina in Arkansas I've been to me Arkansas they've got the crystal mines down there they have all kinds of lights in the sky like or type of stuff that flies through the sky and so we're going to investigate that um there's all kinds of stuff where it's gonna walk a ranch we're going there there's been all kinds of the gambit of stuff at Skinwalker Ranch there's crypto stuff there's paranormal stuff there's UFO stuff Skinwalker stuff. Skinwalker stuff. Skinwalker stuff.
That'd be crypto technically probably yeah so now you guys mentioned with your radio now is this a terrestrial radio internet radio podcasting it's all internet now you mentioned you guys have some pretty big uh hosts who are some of the hosts that can be found there on your there's Linda Mulhau Richard Dolan, Rosemary Lengailey, Micah Hanks, Ellie Marzoule, I'm sorry if I'm leaving anybody out there's a whole list yeah there's a lot you can hear myself and Jason on Truth Heron Radio pretty soon we're bringing that back Rosemary, open minds, Jimmy Church does his show live four nights a week John Burrows and I don't know if you know who he is he was involved in the Rendlesham incident over in England and he's on there with Linda Mulhau What's that incident I'm not familiar with that I'm getting a lover and listeners aren't that's what I'm talking about. UFO that was over a military base yeah and a lot of witnesses and there are soldiers that got sick from radiation and for a long time the government was like no they didn't because nothing happened and they just released some things in fact I believe Nick Pope was involved and they finally declassified some papers and I think probably by accident yeah some things weren't redacted that said soldiers did get radiated there which actually saved John Burrows life because before that he couldn't afford all the things that were happening to him and once that was pointed out to him he was able to take that and go see I told you and the government now had to pay all of his bills and potentially saved his life however I think his health is declining right now. Now he was he was one of the ones that actually walked up to the craft is that correct? I think he touched it didn't yeah there's two of them they walked up to the craft and there was some strange writing on it or something no one of them got a download or something of a bunch of code and he actually like years later remembered it and wrote it all down and it ended up deciphering out into something I don't know it's like ones and zeros that there were some message or something attached to that and it was quite interesting.
When did this incident happen? Is this something fairly recent or is this several decades ago? That's a good question. That's a World War II I think wasn't it back in the 50s?
No John's life coming. I thought it was back in the 50s. He was a young man when he was in the dead. Yeah but everybody that was from the war was a young man and they're all dying.
It was quite a while ago. Yeah it was a while ago I don't remember when it was. So now with the apology stuff I know that the 50s and 60s seem like it was a pretty hot era for sightings. Has there been different areas where it's kind of peak?
Well you kind of think though during the World War II everybody was looking up to the sky looking for bombers you know what I mean? And so yeah it peaks probably around the 4th of July when everybody's looking up at fireworks. I'm sure the sightings of UFOs on the 4th of July go up. Right as far as move on is concerned I think they have more sightings now than they ever have.
They have several hundred a month reports that come in. Now for our listeners I'm familiar with move on is can you guys explain what move on is for our listeners? That's the mutual UFO network and they are actually all over the world they have chapters everywhere across the world and they investigate any kind of an almost UFO activity. And they actually usually about every night do a quick little report on a coast to coast at least maybe it's Friday night maybe it's Friday night but Friday nights on a coast to coast a.m.
They usually pop on for 10 or 15 minutes and they'll talk about some of the reports of things that they've seen. So yeah that's move on. Yeah yeah. So we've talked crossed circles we've talked cattle mutilays so we've talked UFOs.
Do you guys talk about or talk with duck bees or do you guys look into that? Yeah there's actually Michael Nelson Mountain right he does the Starborn support which is really based around the support for duck bees. So now I know that when we start talking abductees the general public at large if you will. Most of them are kind of like yeah crackpots crazy and your guys' experience having dealt with this field you know we deal with paranormal and we deal with crackpots too.
If you were to just assign a random percentage how many do you guys think are legit how many do you think are kind of out there a little bit. I know I'm asking you to have the ball park. You know what I'm not there. One thing I do believe it's same with the paranormal people believe they see something.
Yes. Now did they see what they believe they saw? Most of the time no in my opinion. So I can't speak to that you know what I mean.
I really don't know. A lot of these things are really far out there but then you start getting into like I don't know somebody brought up an interesting thing. Let's chuck. We have a very good friend of the show we used to do who swears up and down that he gets abducted and he goes out into space and fights an alien war.
They have actually contracted him into their military. Okay now that's crazy and I make fun of him a lot but then somebody started talking about well what if it's astraly. You know there's many planes and kind of shut me up and made me think a little bit because I know Chuck and he I mean he was involved with move on. In fact he was a state of nature.
He still is. Yeah but he can only talk about one of the other at time. He's been banned from talking about his space experience. But you know let's take a really famous case Travis Walton.
Okay. Fire in the sky if everybody's probably seen that. If not watch it it's pretty good. You know what really stood out to me about that whole case is we had Steven Pearson and he was one of the guys that was in the group when Travis got abducted.
You know allegedly abducted. None of those guys liked each other. That whole group really each other's throats. Nobody liked each other.
All of the group has been offered money. Tens of thousands of dollars to come and say you know what change your story. I'll give you $10,000. Nobody's done it.
This group doesn't really associate with each other because nobody liked it. None of them are rich. They could all use the money. Yeah the story has always stuck and that spoke to me a lot.
Yeah. You know and so does it happen? I would say yes it probably does. And is it aliens abducting people?
Who knows? Maybe it is the government and they're feeding them full LSD or something and they're having an experience. Yeah who bitch about that. I don't know.
But it's possible I guess. Man they abducting me. Make me smoke weed. I'm a guy.
Five bags of Cheetos. I hate it when they get behind it. Yeah everybody bitches about being forced. Oh I say and Tim keeps telling you he wants to be abducted because the probing is kind of appealing to the bass.
The bass name is. It's awesome. It's an astrolittle. That stuff gets warm when you blow up.
No you guys have done a lot of interviews as we have and I am of the firm belief that a lot of this and probably the majority of all this phenomena whether you saw UFO or a big foot or had a paranormal experience is probably caused by the user somehow. It's something they've manifested for themselves. Now all of it? No.
Again that's that one percent thing. If it happens one time out of a hundred then there's something there. But I think probably for the most part people create these paranormal experiences from their own thoughts and beliefs. Honestly do you think that?
Yeah I would a UFOs too? Maybe it's an experience they had they but like Chuck I honestly believe Chuck believes 100% that this is how it's absolute reality for him. There's no question in my mind. Is it really happening or is it something that's just happening in his head?
You know what I mean? It could all be psychological. I don't know. I was going to say it's interesting because with a lot of paranormal stuff why I forgot to talk about that.
Are you sure? You've heard of this hard. English hard. And say a lot of the cases we deal with we do have some of the darker stuff.
The reason they're having experiences because they've done something to invite it in. Yes. You know and I don't know how or if that would work with the ufology stuff. But I'd be curious to do a study and I don't know how to possibly do it.
To link all these people and see if there's a common factor. You know be it a chemical factor with their bodies or personality type or. A lot of them and I hate to say this a lot of the crazier sounding ones. Actually when you get back to their story in the beginning they wanted this.
They wanted to see a UFO or they wanted they flash lights in the sky. They did something to provoke it. Not all of these but a lot of the time. I don't know.
I guess I think the more traumatized ones or they didn't even ask for it. Didn't even know what was going on. And those ones could be the real ones. I would agree with that.
Yeah. Because Chuck, remember when we talked Chuck I mean he was talking to him and he was asking to be taken. I don't remember his story. Yeah but that's because the other people yeah.
He wanted it to happen. You know what I mean a lot of these paranormal groups. They want to get evidence. And so they go out there and guess what they get orbs and they get EDP and they get ghost books.
Those boxes. Orbs aren't real. I agree. But they believe it.
It's one of these favorite forms of evidence. People show the pictures of an orb. I'm just like it was funny because when I first started investigating. I was all about it.
I'm not going to go on my own. But the more I get into it I'm just like well as it does. As a water reflecting off the light. I mean like orbs to me is the thing of the past.
It's not really legitimate evidence in my opinion. So I'm going to jump in here and disagree a little bit with all you all. Really? Now and the reason I say that now photographic orbs I'm on board with my guys.
Yes. And I have seen glowing orbs with my physical eyes that have moved around and faded. But see when you see an orb with your own eyes you can't really count that as evidence because you're not showing that to people. Okay.
I'm talking about like photographic or video orbs. I've seen I've been with you when we saw the orbit the Rollins penitentiary. Like we saw it down in the shower room where there's no windows. And the Benson Grissman orb.
That thing's huge. Wow. Octagon Hall I saw a ball of light. It was almost like a long camera flash and it moved about three feet and then disappeared.
So yeah. All orbs don't. I don't know. Photographic orbs.
I'm highly suspicious. I don't think they're all bonk. But I think honestly these days those photographic anything how can you rely on any photograph unless you snapped it yourself. Yeah.
They can do about anything with Photoshop these days. That's true. But I mean what when you're talking orbs I mean back in the day they never got orbs. You know what I mean?
They never got a word. All these old photos nobody got it. It wasn't until maybe the early 2000s people started getting orbs. And that could be a photographic well probably technology.
I don't want to hear my theory. I got a good theory. I'm by it right into it. On your camera on the old fashioned cameras with the cube that you put up here where the flash was away from the lens.
Now when you're taking pictures of orbs typically that's dust or debris that's right in front of the lens. Even though in the picture it looks like it's out in the distance. It's right here. But now everything's getting compact.
The flash is right next to the lens. I think that'll explain the phenomena because early 2000s when all the digital stuff started happening. One camera started getting smaller and smaller and the lens moved right next to that flash. Yeah.
That's a fantastic theory. That's my theory. I actually have a photographer friend that probably I've shown her pictures of supposed orbs before and she's like yeah that's just a lens flare or she's like I can recreate that stuff. So I'd agree with you completely on that.
So with the ufology stuff how many reports do you guys get or see that are hoaxes. I know we've had people send us photos speaking at which where they insist it's real and I go and find the image of the type of Google and paste that it's a photo. And then you make a 14 minute video proving how it's a fake. And then they first do me for saying they're photos fake.
Go for it. Prove it's not. Like you lost it from so many for using their image without their permission to get a bigger deal. Yeah.
That's no joke. Remind me of the question again. There was a question. There was a question.
How many reports there make like you fun or you guys do you think are BS reports just basically hoax reports. I can't speak for move on because I'm not in move on. I don't know if it's 20 percent range. You're not in there.
I don't know if it's to be hard to say. I mean there's a lot of disinformation out there. You know. There's a lot of people wanting the spotlight too.
You know. There's a guy that makes UFO videos strange light in the sky things. That's what he does. He gets on and you know take the thing and then he'll photoshop or whatever and put a little UFO or a weird light or the clouds separating or and he's got a whole page full of that shit.
It's like YouTube. I mean you know people point us at ghost videos on YouTube all the time and you really can't buy into any of them because you know some dude with you know 50 cents worth of fishing line and a camera is you know I got pulled over to us in my house and oh you got fishing line in your house and a lot of free time and imagination and so it's hard to take a lot of stuff on YouTube. Sure. And you don't imagine it's the same with UFO stuff.
And even paranormal stuff. You know I started doing this about 2002 is when I got into paranormal. This is actually when it wasn't cool guys. Yeah no you had to like tell your girlfriend that you were going to the titty bar or something.
You didn't tell people you were going to go out and investigate. Were you going prostitute? Yeah. It was like frowning.
It really wasn't. I'm going to the gay bar. It was hard to get into places you know. Don't give away castle secrets.
Yeah. He said you wouldn't tell. What was I talking about? Sorry.
We're going to your start. 2002 you're getting into UFO stuff. Yeah and I forgot my point. I had a point.
We're talking about fake stuff. How's that helps? Oh yo yo yeah I did get kind of disenfranchised with the paranormal after probably what five years where where thing you know when the show started coming out. Yeah.
Those are a double edged sword. It took paranormal the paranormal and put it moved it out of the tab and moved it into mainstream. That's the good thing that came from it. The bad thing in my opinion that came from it is everybody that's got matching t-shirts can go out and be a paranormal investigator.
They go out they disrespect you guys. Outside of your guys. Outside of your guys. Present company.
They would go out and they would there was vandalism. There was a lot of people that were just trying to get cheap drills in the name of paranormal investigators when they would go into people's houses that really needed help that really had problems and they would cause bigger problems. Not no one was there doing. Yeah.
We've recently had cases where we've been called in by another team that's like hey we were here yesterday and it seemed like it's worse. Can you come help us out? We kind of screwed up some stuff for one or maybe you want to come look at this. We've had that happen on more than one occasion.
Well you guys do a lot of demonic stuff you were talking about. Yes. We do a lot of dark cases. We tend to find some of the darker cases and uh.
I think they find us to be honest with you. Yeah I say so. Are you thinking they're demonic? Here's the deal.
I mean personally I'd rather use the term like they make it a bit human entities might be better work. To be honest with you they're actually in my opinion incredibly common. They just get misrecognized and miscategorized but once you start looking for the signs they're usually there and most of them are incredibly low levels. Now I think when you hear the word demonic everybody's thinking Amity Vail, Levitate, the Bed, your head rotating around, it's UMP soup.
You know for a long time everything was demonic. There was a time where everything flipped and all of a sudden everything's demons including UFOs. Oh yeah I've heard that. You know what I mean?
To me you have to seem far more technological than spiritual and I know a lot of people are trying to intertwine those somehow and I'm right in my mind maybe I'm wrong but in my mind they don't intertwine. I'm going to point my finger at the paranormal shows again. You know what I mean? Well I think that ghosts only went so far.
Now what do we do? Everybody's bored of the ghosts. We have to ramp it up a little bit and keep people's attention. Yeah.
What's next demons? Okay we're going to go demons because for a long time I don't really watch the shows. I don't know. I remember when they first came out I was like how are they going to make a show about an investigation because really a lot of it's very boring.
Oh well you guys are pressure and I've been handsome. Yeah. A good friend of ours and you know I was having a conversation you know he spent an entire night filming stuff and it ends up in like a 30-40 minute episode but that's you know 12 to 14 hours worth of filming for that episode because it is boring stuff. It's sitting around talking to yourself in a dark like an idiot.
Right. Yeah and I just remember going how do they do that. You know and then there was a lot of there were shows that did get busted making up things and staging things and creating things and it was just like that. You know I was never really interested in that.
I was really always trying to find the patterns. Find the evidence. You know we've got a really Brad Steiger published a photo that we took at a Godfather's Pizza in Ogden and it's called the Godfather's Boy. There's an apparition.
The crappy part was we shot it to ward a window. Now what happened was we were all sitting we were wrapping up the investigation and the owner said there's mist over there and we just turned and shot and that was the picture that came out. There was a full body apparition right there. Now with it being shot to ward a window you never do that.
You don't shoot toward anything that's reflected like that because you can get false positives and that's no good. We just throw it away. We could never recreate that photo. We tried for two months straight to recreate that photo and it's pretty legit.
I mean you know in my opinion but you know if you're not there it's hard to go. Yeah right. Yeah. But Brad Steiger thought so too so it's in it.
You published that in his book. Well essentially mentioned the show because we've actually gone to several venues where some of these shows have been there and it's interesting to talk to the staff to find out how the filming went down versus what you see on TV. You know we did a Rollins Penitentiary in Wyoming and one of the staff members mentioned that yeah this is where this particular TV personality had a stie a string to this particular camera and on cue we were supposed to give it a yank and they all freaked out. You know and that's hard because it basically de-legitimizes not only that show but it calls into question every other show that's out there.
Exactly. Or we've heard about where before they come and film. They're like well do you have any evidence of your own that we can use in case we don't get ours while we're there investigating because we still have something for the show. I remember where was it there was a place here in Utah I was talking to the people that owned it and there was a group that came I don't remember which one it was it was a while ago but the producers showed up first and told these people everything that they were going to get and you know face plan.
I think I remember that and they were kind of here's what you're going to tell us here. And here's what happens is you get a whole society of young people watching this and they're fascinated and they're like hey we can we can get matching t-shirts we can go out to these places and spend a half an hour and get all this stuff too and that's not the case and maybe they believe in it so much that they're creating some stuff. Well and it's interesting because we go into like there's a website called a paranormal societies.com where you can actually go and see what teams are in your area and I've watched over the years is that went from you know 10 or 12 teams here in Utah to probably now upwards of 50 teams and if you start digging into it probably close on to 80 percent or a bunch of idiots with flashlights and matching t-shirts that have no idea what they're doing but people are calling them for help and putting yourself in. I ain't buying it for a second.
I've got a matching t-shirt. Let's go talk to them. Yeah but you know in the end they end up creating more problems and quite frankly given the whole industry if you will a black guy. We've noticed over the last probably four or five years a lot of venues that used to be open investigations have basically started telling groups you know no thank you because these idiots matching t-shirts and flashlights have gone in there.
Yeah they've given us about me. And they've you know made a mess of the venue they've vandalized the venue they've. Or misrepresented the venue. And created huge problems and it sucks because for legitimate groups it cuts them out in the future because those property owners don't want to deal with it anymore.
So while we are out of time we appreciate you guys coming on the show. Now again if people want to find you where they find you guys at? That's kgraradio.com. All right hey thanks for coming on the show.
Hey thanks guys. Thanks for having us. All right and we are back on the wish show and we are actually live streaming on Elizabeth Saints Facebook account. So she's trying to figure out the mechanics there.
I got to get closer to you guys. Fantastic. Yes they know we can see you. No one can see me.
There's Elizabeth. Don't mind us we're figuring out the Facebook Live with it. This is the more stuff. Does that work?
Oh I can go right in here. But then we only see you. We don't see you too. I have a face for radio.
Yeah Tim just imagine a really big guy with a bright red beard. We're gonna close something. Let me just go over. Yes this is amazing.
Hi. Welcome. All right we're gonna start it. That was kind of Oh we're not starting it.
Am I? There we go. Yes. Yo yo yo yo.
This sucks. I have a shitty table. Yeah you're table sucks. So welcome back to the wish show and beatboxing with us is a little bit of a shame from ghost of shepherds town and Elizabeth is a blast especially when once you got the Facebook live rockin in the back of tassels jeep we actually went to Union station last night had a great investigation there.
So if you don't already follow Elizabeth on Instagram and it's Elizabeth Saint one word underscore. Yes. I know because I looked up Elizabeth this morning and started following what's that. What the heck?
Just today. I'm totally like Facebook stuff and you're Instagram's talking about other best games. Apparently one of our other best games. Oh apparently one of our other best games says he's your new bestie.
Oh what Dale? Yeah. Oh Dale's awesome yeah. Yeah guys.
We're good. I'm not gonna tell Dale but I wasn't sure if he was Dale or Derek because they're both on our team and I they're fairly new and so Elizabeth had to tell me who our my bestie really love you. I only know because I work with Dale. I do.
So anyway we are here with Elizabeth Saint from Ghost of Shepherd Town. She's one of our guests here on the metaphysical masters of Ascension Expots a really long name. Very long. That's like a mouthful.
So tell us a little bit about your experience of our hair Elizabeth. It's been interesting. Actually I did have a really great time last night at Union Station investigating with everybody. We had some really interesting experiences there that I didn't actually expect.
They were very personal to some of the people that actually came last night. Yeah as you can see there's one woman there and it was her son that she was looking for. Yeah there was one woman that went to contact her son. I believe his name was Daryl.
Dylan. Dylan. I call everybody who couldn't. There was a DY L name in there.
Yeah. We learned that. No but she did. We had very clear communication with him that I thought was just amazing.
What is happening over there? He's losing his microphone. My microphone started falling. There's a reason that Castle's holding his microphone with his hand and it's because it's not like my assistant.
Well that's because you stole like my okay I have to hold my mic. Love you Tim. Wait for it. There we go.
So all right. Please make this interview last like an hour because I told you all. Oh my god. Wait we should mount that proper.
Now we're tonight Tim hold it because it looks. I've got it. It looks like yeah. I've got.
Wait hold on. Tim's all looking up on his mic for listeners. This is interesting. So not like professional podcasting here.
So last night you had an app on your laptop that I wanted to kind of talk about. Can we talk about your app? Oh yeah. So we were using the FASMA box which is something that I was at an investigation in at St.
Joseph's Hospital and I had someone show me this app that they were using and I was super skeptical. Honestly I've always been super skeptical of a lot of these things. And what surprised me the most was just how relevant it was to the location we were at which was you know the hospital and not only that but very clear intelligent responses to the questions that we were asking. So you know the past couple months I downloaded it and I started working with it myself and I found it to be quite accurate sometimes and rather interesting.
And there's ways I could say well you could probably program it such and such a way to make it be like that. But I don't know I do think that there's something to it sometimes. Well it's interesting it seems like last night we were getting some really relevant results. For those who don't know where we were at last night we were actually investigating the Union Station in Ogden and the Union Station for those not familiar with it is an old Union Pacific rail station.
They're in Ogden and part way now is it FASMA box or FANMA box? Okay FASMA box. Glad I got it right. So never give me anything right.
I know I never do anything right. I'm a failure. That's why I have self-esteem problems. But as we were talking to this we had a train whistle come across this.
Oh we did. It was really interesting. Yeah and we couldn't explain it because we didn't have any train whistles all night. Exactly.
It was crystal clear. I mean it was a long train whistle. There was not even a good job. Oh come on.
I'm gonna quit just so I can go on investigations and I instead of like. Oh man that's right. You can't look like I go hang out with a hot chick all night. Shut up.
I hang out with a hot chick all the time. That's right. You tell him. Yeah.
Is that your right hand? No. What is happening? I don't work in interviews.
It's a terrible one. Welcome to the show. This is an amazing interview. So should we actually talk about Elizabeth's questions?
We should probably talk about Elizabeth's questions since we got a show. So Elizabeth I know we interviewed you a little bit a few weeks ago via Skype and this is actually more fun to interview you in person because we can actually see you and see when you look at us like we're insane. No we just stare at each other awkwardly. This is how we podcast.
We just stare at each other. So Elizabeth like these kind of conventions how frequently do you do these? Oh man. Oh great kind of often.
Well maybe it just seems like that in short spans. It seems like they all kind of lumped together somehow. No I you know after the show I had never actually been to a paranormal convention in my life. That was very new to me and not it just wasn't something I was thinking about going to.
I was always like oh man there's a gaming convention. That sounds fun. I didn't even know people really did these kind of things. When I was investigating with my team prior to Shepherdstown I was very much just into my team investigating on the weekends and it was very private to me in my life and I liked keeping it that way.
And then after the show I started going to as many as I possibly could and it honestly I love going to them because I get to meet all these people in the field that I would have never been able to speak to before. And not only that but see you know different approaches people are taking kind of equipment that they're using. You know why they got into this field. I mean the list goes on and I just I love I get a chance to be a part of that community more.
Now with these conventions how many usually entail like an investigation in the class? Is that fairly common? Is that common? What's been your experience?
What do you mean like just having an investigation with an investigation as part of the convention? Oh that is pretty common actually. Yeah I mean it's like kind of why not a lot of people have as part of the cons you know the location be in these really historic or known to be haunted locations. I feel like you'd be missing out if you weren't investigating.
But yeah most of the time there's some sort of investigation I've been a part of with the convention. And I'm going somewhere with this question by the way. Oh okay. Oh you're fine.
So now out of all these investigations you've done Shepherdstown some of the ones you've done on the conventions one you've done on with your team. Yeah tell us about your most memorable investigation. Oh my most memorable. She hasn't done yet because her and I haven't investigated until yet.
Yeah it's still to kind of in the future. You know what most memorable there's been a few for different reasons. With my team the investigations were more intimate I would say very personal. We had a few darker cases that we worked on that really stand out.
But at the same time Shepherdstown was completely different. It was a different energy there that I haven't experienced anywhere else. And I mean God there's a few episodes that totally took me off guard. Something I wasn't really expecting.
Season Finale season one I had an experience there that I'll never forget where I actually blacked out of it and didn't remember anything until they got me out of the location. And then there's just been a lot of strange phenomena in general I experience there. Most memorable I will have to say though would be my very first paranormal investigation. And I still have some of the best EVPs I've ever received on any investigation from that night.
And it kind of set the bar high after that. But I'll never forget I arrived a little late. Everyone was already there. They were talking to the client in the kitchen.
I come through the front door and I hear this kid running upstairs and laughing. And I was confused because you know I was told that there weren't going to be any of the children present at the investigation. So I go into the kitchen and I introduce myself to the client. And I'm like by the way is your son here?
And oh she's like oh no that's just Billy. I'm like Billy? And she's like yeah that's just one of the spirits here at my house. Very not just lying like she just got out of the room.
Just setting things on fire. But for me the whole reason I got into the field was to establish some sort of validation for my experiences I've had my entire life. And as soon as I walked in the door it was instant validation for the fact that I wasn't crazy. And that there was really definitely something going on with me.
And this was just the start beginning to understand that. And not only that but be able to help people to also understand it in their own lives. So hands down probably my most memorable investigation. Now you said you've been on some darker residential investigations.
Can you tell us a little bit about some of those? Yeah so sometimes my team Marilyn Paranormal Research we would get investigations through the Paranormal Clergy. And for some reason. I don't know if that's because they bet them out over a period of time or whatever but they were always the most interesting sometimes or just darker anyways.
One that sticks out the most was there was actually this family that lived in Vermont. Oh hey they're jamming again. Music timing in. We drove all the way from Marilyn up to Vermont for this investigation.
We actually had to go back to this location twice because their experiences there were so bad. There was very clear class AVPs the entire time we were there. A lot of visual stuff full body operations I experienced on that investigation. The list goes on.
Not only that though it was the first time in my life while investigating where I actually blacked out in the last track of time. It was all together. And I remember standing up in the master bedroom of this house. And I was with my very trusted Paranormal investigator my my good friend Mike.
And he had never done this before in investigation but he he stood there in the center of the room and this weird look came over his face. And I remember him just putting his hands out and being like if there's any spirits that wish to cross over I will help you do that now. Just come to me and he's never done something like that before. I was like what is happening.
And I was like what do you do? And I couldn't like the words could not leave my mouth. And it was like a train of energy just came into the room. And I remember like everything getting like extremely cloudy and there was just something in the back my head saying Elizabeth get out of the house.
Get out of the house. And I just remember looking at him and it was just it was like it was not him at all. And it was bits and pieces of remembering going downstairs. I vaguely remember like going through the kitchen through the living room.
And then as soon as I got outside it's like everything came out came back and I was okay. And I collected myself for a second. I didn't quite understand what happened because this was the first time in my life that something like that happened to me. And I was like oh my god I have to go in and make sure that Mike's okay.
Right before I went in to do that he comes outside and I'm like what the hell just happened Mike. And he he's like completely freaked out. He looks at me and he's like honestly Elizabeth. I don't know.
There was like this energy that I saw standing next to me. And when I was looking at you the only thought that was running through my head was that I had to kill you. And I remember hearing that. That's comforting.
I know very comforting. I say that to Castle all the time. Yeah. I just get around and investigate and I look at him like I'm going to kill you.
You know I may have told the guests that last night the investigation. I said I've got a bunch of equipment I'm handing out and if I don't get it back at the end of the night I will find you and I will kill every single one of you. What the heck? Actually I did hear you say that.
I heard you say that. Yeah. So it was really in that moment Castle coming to that location. I was coming through my fellow paranormal investigator and saying that.
Apparently someone left equipment in a room somewhere and that's why he was going to you must have left something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
It's me. That's protecting. Don't take the time traveling and don't leave the K2 out. But anyway yeah that was that was a pretty intense experience for me.
Maybe question and look at things a little differently after that. So let me ask you now I'm curious. Yeah. We have a few people on our team who lose time kind of like you do or have where you black out.
And all those people on our team who usually have that issue have got some second gifts or their mediums or something like that. I'm going to show you some video of this and she's probably a pissed at me for showing you but I'm going to show you anyways afterward I'm recording. So let me ask you Elizabeth and I might be putting a spot but are you sensitive to have second gifts? How would you classify yourself in that particular arena?
That's a good question. Of course it's a good question. I asked it. Anyone that watches the show I am the quote sensitive of the team.
I don't think that really accurately defines me 100% but I've had experiences my entire life. For as long as I can remember and it was a combination of seeing spirits, hearing spirits, feeling them. And it was just something that I grew up with and I adapted to but I ignored the majority of my life just because I thought that hey I'm really bad at crazy and there's no reason to indulge in these kind of things. So we'll just keep it on the lowdown that I'm crazy and if I act half normal I'll be okay.
I had to break you but I think half the world now knows that you're crazy. That's right. There's no it's not just a little crazier. But you're trumped by the pirate who just walked in.
What happened? There's a pirate. That's for the kids booth. Okay.
That's for the moon thing. I missed the pirate. I missed the pirate. That's already could just be random.
It could be coincidence that it's not just a pirate. I've got to say I actually suspect based on what you're telling me was whether you actually do have some second abilities. If not late and second abilities because of just some of the things you've experienced with that being I know he last night you saw a shadow figure. You told me all about it because I was already saw it but tell him what happened to him.
Yeah so with larger investigations for events and stuff I don't usually keep myself pretty close off because there's a lot of people and distractions and things that you know it's hard for anybody you know to get tuned into the environment when it's like that. Anyways I was the first person to go up and walk up to the stage and like I guess we would consider the auditorium room and I was drawn to the back left corner and I just felt like there was somebody that was watching us potentially curious as to why this massive group of people are walking around in the dark. I don't know. Anyways I walk over to the side there that would take you to the back behind the stage and I see this black shadow figure just standing there right there and it's as clear as day.
It's like you know if you guys decided to dress in a black bodysuit head to toe for whatever reason. I'm not going to get into that. I believe we call those gimp suits. Yeah I mean yeah exactly Tim calls that Friday night.
Not sure what you're into but I work Friday night so that's why I was another investigation last night. He works. That's just part of it. Exactly that's just part of his job.
Well Jack. I walk around the game. I walk around the gimp suit and I make yogurt. Wow.
I actually I mean my imagination is just like whoo on that one. I actually I actually do make yogurt though. This is my Jack. Oh my god.
I work for Dan and Wow. You make yogurt. So I literally do make yogurt. Oh my god.
But it makes for all kinds of inappropriate jokes. Yes. It really does. Especially in this moment.
Right yeah because you know I walk around the game to make a yogurt. Oh my god. So let me ask you this is a little delicious. Out of all the places you've been Shepherdstown included.
Which venue would you say and when I say Shepherdstown I'm gonna I'm gonna make you pin down a specific location in there. All right got you. But which one has been the most active as far as just the most activity you've seen. What location and tell us about it if you were a little bit.
The most active in Shepherdstown. And it could be a side of Shepherdstown. It's not to be Shepherdstown. It could be a.
No no yeah. Honestly one of the locations was that stands out season two. Episode two we were at a woman Nina's house that in Sharpsburg, Maryland. Her backyard just lines up right with Antietam Battlefield.
That was definitely one of the the most active places why we were there for sure. It was one of the it's one of those places where the energy just like puts you on your ass almost because as soon as you walk in the room you just feel it. It's like a shield. Definitely more negative.
Especially down in the basement. And we had amazing communication the entire night. Not only in the basement with this dark ransettie but also upstairs in the master bedroom. It's just something I wouldn't forget because of the kind of energy you felt there for sure.
What other kinds of activity were you getting there just besides the energy? Was there anything going on? Yeah there was so much going on there. And it was interesting because we work with Lori Johnson's like medium on the show.
I brought her in one day for a second walkthrough and she was hitting the nail in the head in terms of all the experiences Nina was having in this house with this Native American woman. The kind of dreams that she was experiencing. And later on during a daytime sweep that I did with Nick and Bill I mean we were getting direct communication with this Native American woman through our devices up in the master bedroom. And then it was just a totally different feel down in the basement.
And it was the starting point in my mind for the entity we dealt with throughout the rest of the show. It was like you know it was just traveling from location to the next. And following us in a way which was weird and interesting to experience altogether. Now you also do stuff with making equipment.
Is that correct? So how did you get involved in that aspect of it? I mean that's really high-tech stuff and tell us a little bit about that. Yeah so my background is in electrical engineering when I started doing paranormal investigations I was working for the Department of Defense at the time.
So when I was brought on for Shepherdstown I didn't actually do anything in terms of equipment. Like I didn't make anything. It wasn't until the end of the season Nick said to me you know I'm starting my show paranormal lockdown. It would be awesome if you were to create a piece of equipment for the show.
And I was like yeah absolutely I would love to just let me know when. And he gets me up a few months later and it's like you know would you want to make something for the show. And I said absolutely. So I was like the first advice I made I called the E-box.
It was just a little box. It was supposed to communicate with the children's spirits at the Franklin Castle location in season one. So for some reason my strange brand was like oh it's like old creepy place. Maybe a Jack in the box or something like that.
There were my like wooden box. I don't know why. Anyways it looks nothing like a Jack in the box. Aside from being this like wooden box.
And I used conductive paint on each one of the pointers that had a YN, G and H for yes no hello goodbye. Very simple communication device. And I wanted to experiment experiment a bit with capacitive sensing. So if anything different than the dielectric of air came into the vicinity of one of the corners it would actually trigger this sound file.
And the sound file was actually a recording of my own voice. And I laid down two tracks. One was very monotone just like a yes. And then the second one was a manipulated darker version.
So when it came out of the box I'm telling you no child would want to play with this damn thing. It is horrifying not to mention the forum speakers are booming. So it's just like you're in an old abandoned haunted location all you hear is like yes coming out of the box it's like oh my god like run for the hills because this is just terrifying. But anyways it was the start of me making my ghostly gadgets which is what I call them.
And honestly I haven't been able to stop making them ever since. I make prototypes all the time now. Do you want to communicate with us? No I don't.
No. Oh is that no. So now have you put any of your stuff on the market yet or use work with prototypes or? No I honestly I haven't had a chance to.
A lot of people have been asking me I just haven't had any time and I've been working a lot lately creating new devices and larger experiments for a different project that I'm doing. But it's definitely something that I want to do and I'm hoping that within the next year I can. I'm also the kind of person that I want to do it right you know. I want to make a device everybody knows what's inside it how it can be incorporated.
I want to know the components how it's programmed if it requires programming. You know like I really want people to understand what's going into the device because I think that that's lacking in the skill tremendously is knowledge as to why are we saying that this is detecting a spirit it could be literally anything. Well that's the part about this skill that kind of makes me suspicious as how things work. For instance the Ghost Meter Pro is a device I was very skeptical of until I actually got some EVPs that confirmed that's getting yes and no EVP for us getting on the device.
Still have no idea how the damn thing works but I'm more confident than I was before. So out of all the gear that's out there on the market right now what devices do you think are fantastic and what devices do you think are designed to catch ghost hunters not so much spirit activity. Jesus I'm not going to be throwing anyone under the bus here. Throw away it was a best throw away.
I can't be getting into trouble on this one. Let's just start this segment. We're talking to Susan who nobody knows. Susan tell us your opinion.
Yeah you know the project I'm working on now I've been doing a ton of research in the field looking for people that do have a technical background and I was quite surprised about with how many people actually do. You know the the people that make the EDI devices the one brother is actually an engineer the the guy that is a founder of Paranology is he's also an engineer and then I started doing stuff with Ghost The Gadgets. If anyone has watched Paranormal Lockdown then you know about the GeoPort and you know about George Brown who's also a mechanical engineer and I've actually been working really closely with George with this project I'm doing developing new equipment and I love I do love his GeoBox design and GeoPort I think it's fantastic and it's one of my more favorite tools to use definitely and our collaboration together has been such an amazing experience I can't wait to share everybody what we've actually done and put it out there. I'm gonna make the second part of my question easier for you.
Okay so I can't throw anybody under the bus here. I don't need like anywhere hate mail than I already get. So I don't know. Just if you have hate mail for Elizabeth you can just send that to Castle at WISP.org and he'll respond to it in a timely manner.
Yeah with a great big gift of my middle finger. For a minute I was gonna flip up your pump. I realized I was gonna go longer. Well we'll move like the remaining clatters.
She's no longer accepting hate mail just ford all be hate mail to Castle at WISP. I love my hate mail. So here's my easing of the question having been on investigations and investigating with other teams and other people what techniques do you think are questionable in your opinion and I'm opening that up to pendulisms and flashlights I'm gonna open up to everything not just equipment specifically but what things do you not trust I guess might be the best word. I don't trust anything.
All right that's a pet. I know you know I know everybody. I don't know. I don't trust anything.
I don't trust anything but I make either. No I honestly I think that's not a good way to sell your equipment. Buy it. Buy it right now.
I don't trust my own ship but I need money. Welcome girls to get it's powered by Froot Loops and Doritos. Hey that sounds strange. That sounds cool.
And the tears of small chill were orphaned. It's gotta be orphaned. It's gotta be orphaned. And it's played with cards against humanity.
Oh love that guy. They have a Disney version What? That's so wrong. That is so wrong.
I want to play it. I want to play it. We should play cards against humanity. We should play that on the podcast.
Oh my god. I'm serious. That would be an amazing idea. If you do that I happen to know one of our team members has the entire set of cards.
We are they. Yeah. She's actually at the dirty dash where I was like. Does she have the really big black box too?