This podcast is being brought to you by WXAV.com. WXAV, bringing the best artists to you. Hi, I'm Tyson Walker with WXAV 88.3 FM, talking to Ellie Case via Zoom. How are you doing?
Hey, I'm doing good. How are you doing, Tyson? I'm good enough. I'm alive, and, you know, I don't question the inevitable.
There you go. And after a couple years that we've all had, being alive is a big deal, so. So I'll just get started. First, let me say that nothing, nothing is a hit.
Like, nothing is a, that's a good story. I've listened to it probably 10 times in the last hour, to play video games, and, yeah. Thank you so much. I mean, it's just, and I know it hasn't already stopped having anything be perceived.
That's not the artist rating, but it just seems scornful, but not resentful. It mostly just seems like you're speaking your truth throughout the song. That means so much to me, and honestly, like, I'm really, I've been sitting on this project for, like, the whole pandemic, so it's really cool to finally release it, and I'm so interested in what other people are taking from it, actually. So, like, I want to hear all about your reaction, what video game you want to play while you listen, and all of that.
But, yeah, nothing is definitely, definitely was me tapping into some rage and some anger and kind of owning my big feelings about the ways that I've felt trapped for a lot of my life. So I'm so glad that you got that. And then it didn't have resentment in it, because I've been working hard on that personally. So, like, allow myself to have anger, but not resent people or blame other people, and to recognize that it's something that's just there to move through me, and it's going to show me exactly where I need to go, you know?
So was that the headspace you were in for the entire duration of making NISMA? Yeah, yeah. Generally, just, I tried to approach everything from this place of radical self-acceptance, of just kind of allowing my emotions to be whatever they were, kind of without judging them or without qualifying them, and noticing where they were going to take me. So the tracks themselves started with improvised vocal loops, where I kind of, like, tapped into the concept of each word.
So, like, there's nothing, I release this tomorrow, there will be C, means, and anything. So every word was a meditation. And I allowed myself to just kind of sit with what that word meant to me sonically, and, like, started improvising on the sounds of the word. And for me, nothing was definitely, immediately, a lot of anger, and a lot of this twisted kind of darkness that I found within me.
But generally, across the board, the full record comes from that place of me doing my best to accept myself, and accept, yeah, the feelings that I had around just kind of having to sit with myself. I mean, we all were forced to just kind of sit still for two years, and we couldn't escape the stuff that, you know, we all have to look at and deal with with the normal distractions that we had. You know, I couldn't just, like, go to a rehearsal or make myself busy teaching or, you know, go out with friends or anything like that. I had to really, like everyone else, sit with myself these past couple years.
And so I was trying not to, trying to be the keyword, trying not to judge myself as I had the feelings and then allow the sounds to kind of grow from that and hopefully offer a catharsis to whoever was listening. So you mentioned catharsis and meditation a little bit. I think I read one of those reading up studying you. That's a weird thing to say, but I guess that's what you do before an interview.
But you love yoga. Is there any way that you'd say that yoga has made you a better artist? Because I just feel like there's definitely a symbiotic relationship between the meditative qualities of music and the healing properties of meditation. Absolutely, 100%.
I mean, so a lot of this deeper listening to myself came because I thank my lucky stars every day. I'm so blessed. I went to the most incredible yoga teacher training right before the pandemic started at a school called Lighthouse Yoga School with Jared McCann here in Brooklyn. And yoga is so much more than what we think it is in the States.
Yoga is meditation. Yoga means union. And there are, you can sit still and be practicing yoga. So I was kind of taught about that.
And that's like the extreme nutshell version. I was taught about that at this teacher training. And Jared is a mentor of mine now. Jared and Rebecca are both mentors of mine now.
And what they facilitate is meditation and is sitting with yourself and this idea of radical self-acceptance. But the thing that really propelled me into this space of music making was the chanting aspect of yoga. I chant in Sanskrit every single day and have, since just before the pandemic, and it has changed my whole life. It's believed that when you chant in Sanskrit that the consonants and the vowels vibrate different parts of your body and release scar tissue and old traumas and wounds and things like that.
So sound as healing is kind of infused in yoga traditions. And overcoming the body, overcoming these vessels that we walk around in is the purpose of the postures. The yoga posture doesn't do anything. When you have your feet on your head and you're doing a weird pose, it's not doing anything for anyone.
You know what I mean? It's just a strange position. But the mindfulness and the intentionality that it takes to create that position is the yoga. And so that's kind of, I learned that from my practice.
I'm still learning it every day. I'm still struggling with it every day because I'm a human. And so I get distracted and I like shiny things. But, like, that's what I'm really working on is that deeper listening and finding that intentionality and putting it in.
I mean, that's why I broke down these words the way that I did. That phrase, nothing I see means anything. So in nothing, there's the, in the beginning section, you hear the n sound in, like, hum sort of a feel. It's actually the letter N.
And then there are some letter Ns and n that have been distorted to sound like guitars that are in the tracks that are loose. That's dope, yeah. Yeah, so it's like, and then I have, there are yogic breathing exercises that have specific sounds to them. And those are also layered in as, like, whisper tracks and making percussive noises with consonants with my mouth.
Sort of, sort of with the intentionality of the anger and of the rage in nothing in the hopes that kind of like the Sanskrit, you know, English is not Sanskrit, never will be. But kind of in line with that, the idea was to unlock in the listener, whether they know that I was doing that or not, to unlock whatever they need to feel that might relate just from that deeper space. So 100%, absolutely, all of this came from my yoga practice. And I would not be here without my yoga practice on many levels.
I mean, yoga has saved me a lot in my life. I can say just from the five or so minutes we've been talking that you want to know how people will experience the album, what they're doing while listening to it. On November 19th, when nothing I see means anything comes out, I will be doing it. Yoga.
I've tried it once before, and I was just watching a YouTube video trying to follow along, and I was so stiff, and I was not doing it right, and I wasn't doing it right because I was so worried about doing it wrong. And I think I'm just going to pop on the nicest headphones I have, go out my yoga mat and just get right to it. Oh my gosh, will you please tell me how that feels and what you experience? Also, look at your self-awareness.
Like, amazing. There's no right way to do yoga. If you're doing your best, it's the right way. And that brings me to, I guess, actually a great segue.
Is there a correct way, in quotes, to experience NISMO? The correct way is whatever your impulses tell you, really. And it's like I said, I'm so excited to learn what people's impulses are for it. You know, for me, sometimes when I was listening to it and we were doing the mix, I needed to take some of the tracks for a run, like, and, like, just angry run to them.
And, like, wow, like, is this dark beat dark enough that I want to run faster? You know? Yeah, we've got to turn it up. And things like that.
But I have other friends who have really enjoyed meditating while listening or going for a walk. You know, some of my friends that I've shared the private link with. So I'm so curious about how everyone will find this and what it will mean for each individual person. Because I bet it will be different for everybody.
So I don't really envision a right way. I just hope that, you know, it hits people in whatever way that they're ready for. You know, whether that's, like, I'm going to ugly cry or I'm going to dance or I'm going to, you know, have a party with my two-year-old. Like, whatever it is.
I'm just, I can't wait. I'm so excited. And you actually have a, if I butcher this, please let me know, an operatic soprano background. Yeah, operatic soprano.
Yes, that's right. First try. I want that on the record. First try.
So I think I've read that this is being described as a pop album. So how would you, what would you say the biggest challenge in incorporating your opera stylings into a pop record were, as any? Yeah, that's a great question. You know, the thing about opera, and I love opera, I will always love opera, is there are a lot of right ways.
You know, it's kind of what we were just talking about. There are a lot of boxes to fit into. And perfection and tradition is sort of this very delicate, fragile thing that's very protected in the operatic industry. So as I approached this, I really wanted to make sure that every sound that came out of my mouth came from what I was feeling.
Not from me thinking, I can't sound like an opera singer or I can't sound like a pop singer. None of that. I really worked hard to make sure that wasn't in my head space. When I was recording, I really tried to just make the sound that got the feeling across.
And so some of the songs have a more belty, growly, like, hardcore vocal sound. And others of them, like Means in particular, there's like this epic operatic desk camp where I'm just full-on singing opera in one track. You know? So, but it fits with the sound world.
It's a little Marvel movie-esque. It kind of just takes it to that next drama level. But, yeah, I think that that was probably the biggest challenge was really giving myself the space to be vulnerable with my voice and to not worry so much about being perfect or everything sounding a certain way. And I have to thank my producers for helping me along the way with that because there was a lot of encouragement that went into that.
You know, it's a strange thing because when you work for hours a day meticulously judging every sound that comes out of your mouth and trying to make it better, approaching a recording session where you want to be, you want the sound to be raw sometimes and you want it to just have the emotion and not so much clarity, it's a certain headspace. So I think that's the biggest challenge that I've found. It's incredibly just raw and vulnerable. So I do understand what you're saying.
Kind of breaking it down scientifically could hurt the end product. I guess I just have one more question. I actually cite Bjork, Kate Bush, and Lady Gaga as inspiration. Is there an L.E.K.'s list of essential listening?
Oh, my goodness. Are you sure you want to ask this question? Because I'm going to hear you today. I mean, I do think we have 10 minutes left in the call because I'm very cheap, but we'll fit it in.
I love it. So I've been obsessed with Circuit with Feet lately. The new album, Deegan, is just incredible. I fell in love with Circuit with Feet listening to Four Ethers.
That particular song is just so creatively crafted and inspires me deeply. Let's see. Okay, so Tori Amos. I'm a 90s kid.
So, like, Alanis Morissette, Tori Amos, Bjork, Kate Bush all fall into a weird similar category for me. Fiona Apple, too, is in there. Just things I grew up with that are just sound worlds in my mind. Just incredible.
FKA Twigs is another artist that I am. Twigs rocks. Twigs is amazing. I was just, like, stalking her YouTube videos and checking out, like, just for inspiration some of the stuff that she's done live.
And it's just incredible what they're creating. I'm just, I'm blown away. Let's see. Who else?
I, you know, I also grew up listening to a lot of, like, Nine Inch Nails and Radiohead. And, you know, my dad was a really big fan of a lot of classic rock things. My parents have incredible taste in music. My mom turned around to, like, the Cranberries and the Clash and the Cure and all those good things from the 80s.
And so, yeah, I, the list goes on and on. I love, I love music so much. I'm trying to think. What have you been listening to lately?
Like, is any of the striking accord with you? Yeah, a little bit. When I heard nothing for the first time three hours ago, I had these exact same headphones on. And it reminded me of when I heard Kate Wicks' Wuthering Heights for the first time two months ago with these same headphones.
And it's just such a sonic scape. It's, it's, I truly, I'm not saying it's, like, that's a great song. It is an incredible song. Oh, you're flattering me.
I'm blushing. But, uh, I think that's about it. Nothing I see means anything. November 19th.
Um, Tyson Walker, Ellie Case, signing off. Thank you very much for listening to this WXAV 88.3 FM podcast. Be sure to visit our website, WXAV.com, for more information on your escape from Ordinary Radio.