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Welcome to Sidebar from the Washington Post. I'm Libby Casey, and I'm joined in the studio by Rhonda Colvin, senior politics correspondent, James Homan, columnist and editorial writer, and friend of the pod, J.M. Rieger, senior video journalist. J.M., you're with us so much. You're in like the gold or platinum category. I'm racking up those freaking flyer miles. Oh, that's perfect. You should have some kind of a point system. Well, as we tape this on Thursday, we are 12 days out from election day. And really, the election is already deeply underway because dozens of states are early voting and will continue to start that process. It's time for the candidates to get out and deliver their closing arguments and really encourage people to vote. So today, we'll look at how the ground game is going in some key swing states.
and how the candidates are using these final days to talk to voters. Also, how they're getting attention. We'll be joined by our colleagues Jorge Ribas and Hyo Jung Kim shortly. We'll also talk today about Elon Musk and how he's using his considerable wealth and power as the head of X, formerly known as Twitter, to put his thumb or his whole fist or maybe jump up and down on the scale of the election. And in the process, he's sowing misinformation and disinformation.
But let's start with what's making news 12 days out. James, do we have a clear sense of how the closing arguments are coming into focus? We do. Kamala Harris is going to give what the campaign is calling a closing speech on the ellipse next week. Now, that is where Donald Trump gave his notorious infamous speech, which got him impeached a second time, where he urged people to go to the Capitol and fight like hell to save the country and said he'd go with them on January 6th, 2021. Harris is going to go back to the scene of what has been charged as a federal crime and and make the case.
that Donald Trump cannot be allowed anywhere near the Oval Office again. It is a shift from two months ago when she first kind of took over. There was this joy, this energy, this kind of freshness and newness. And now it really feels like, honestly, the closing argument for both sides is about Donald Trump. Donald Trump's talking about Donald Trump. And Kamala Harris is talking about Donald Trump as well. Want to tell us more about what Trump is doing to close the deal?
You know, it really hasn't changed. He's doing things that we have seen the entire campaign, which is double down on the base, double down on themes involving masculinity, retaliation against the people he feels have done him wrong. There was really nothing that has been different from the former president. But to tack on to what James was saying about closing arguments, what I find so fascinating about this cycle is that, you know, typically in the past when we covered campaigns, there was the introduction of the candidate. Then there was their platform. And then around this time of year, you got that final push. This is why I need this office. This is why you can't vote for the other person. I think the whole time has been a closing argument, quite frankly, from the Harris side.
Because since the beginning, they have been trying to have that stark contrast and present that to the American people that you either get this or you get that. And, you know, really, they really haven't been digging into policy, but it's because they want to make sure that they have been always arguing that there is a stark difference between her ticket and the other. Who are they trying to woo, J.M.? Like, who are they trying to appeal to with these messages? This is all at this point in the campaign. It's get out the vote, right? We've talked for a long time now at this point about how few undecideds there really are out there. Pennsylvania, the voter registration deadline's already passed. You start talking about these key states, right? At this point, they want to get.
key constituencies out so for harris they've focused a lot on young black men down the stretch for example they've spoken about arab american voters union households things like that i'm gonna stop you there though because who is she out campaigning with now now she's about to do something with obama but she's been with liz cheney she's been talking to moderate republicans i just want to get back to what you were saying jm but sidebar she's trying to get moderate republicans or republicans who cannot stomach trump to come out and vote liz cheney even said no one has to know how you voted. Like this can literally be a secret ballot. You know, we always talk about like secret, the secret voters. There were a lot of secret, shy voters for Trump in 2016, but this isn't even a shy voter, James. This is like a top secret voter. The shy Trump voters are gone. You know, the, the, the 2016 people who were afraid to admit that they were voting for Trump are now very out there. And the Harris campaign is really hoping that there is this sort of like college educated suburban woman who voted for Mitt Romney, whose husband is voting for Donald Trump. Uh, who's going to.
Vote for Kamala Harris. And in a lot of ways, the Harris campaign is betting that this is 2022 part two, right? Where women overwhelmingly came out and voted, and especially that college educated vote. And they're banking on that coming to their side. So you talked about how they're trying to kind of bring back into the fold or keep young black men, Latinos. How are they actually doing that? What's the effort like? There is outreach at the ground level in various communities, right? And we heard a couple of weeks ago, former President Barack Obama kind of make a direct appeal. We've heard Mitch Johnson. We've heard other athletes make direct appeals as well.
How much that's I mean, we're going to know here in less than two weeks how much that's resonating. But yes, it is sort of an all of the above strategy for Harris. You're talking they're trying to broaden the coalition as wide as they can. And in some ways, Trump's almost doubling down on a narrow coalition of, you know, less enthusiastic people who don't vote as as high of rates. What we might call like low propensity voters. Exactly. So Trump is doubling, even tripling down on low propensity voters.
basically assuming that the base is going to be with him, that he's going to have the people that he had in the past two times. Harris is trying to get as broad a coalition as she can. I was talking to a senior Trump campaign official yesterday who was talking about their modeling. And I should say some people are like very confident they're going to win this election. But they were saying that they're getting what in political terms is called a zero by four or a one by four voter. That means they've only voted in one or none of the last four elections. Usually those people obviously don't vote. And they're actually reporting success at getting them out and mobilizing them at their engagement. And they feel like there are these untapped.
people that they've been reaching. And, you know, a lot of Kamala Harris supporters are more likely to vote. They're the four by fours, the people who always vote every election. But it is striking that Trump is really counting on these people who are much harder to get out. And if they get out, he's going to win. But it is a question mark whether they actually do. So what is Kamala Harris doing? So we talked about how she is going to be at the Ellipse next week. Donald Trump's going to be at Madison Square Garden. What is Kamala Harris, though, doing to try to get people excited and bring back the joy a little bit? Because she's getting some like star studded events on the docket here, Rhonda. Yeah, I think she is doing what we've been talking about is trying to make sure that.
She says our ticket is for everyone. She is, you know, going to places and doing interviews that may not be friendly territory. She's trying to do personal appeals. She did the CNN town hall yesterday. And what stood out to you that was personal about that? Like, how did she connect with people?
I think in discussing how she has an experience at different levels that Trump doesn't. If you listen to her answer, she often said, when I was attorney general, when I was a prosecutor, this is why I did this. This is why I care about that. So she was speaking directly to people. And the format also allowed itself to be very personable because these people were coming up with their own questions and she was directing her answers to them and not the moderator. So that was another way to get her message out. And she was also telling people, you know, I thank you for even coming and even considering me. So that shows a candidate that is trying to make sure that they tie up all those ends.
She also talked about faith. She opened the door a little bit more onto herself. Which is the first time that I think we've really heard her speak extensively about her faith and her background. She mentioned her pastor and how she spoke to him shortly after Biden dropped out. She talked about praying a couple times a day. So she was also bringing that side out of her, which I really have not heard a lot from her. And so maybe people learn something from her. Let's listen to a clip from the scene in town hall, which was Wednesday night. And this is one of the clips that's really getting a lot of attention, which goes to the point of like what the closing argument is. She was asked about.
Okay, I got to cycle back a couple news cycles, which is like three days ago. So the backstory. The New York Times finally got John Kelly, who was Trump's longest serving chief of staff, also a retired Marine general. They finally got him on tape, on the record, talking about his grave concerns about Trump's fitness for office. He said Trump meets the definition of a fascist. He also said Trump told him Hitler did good things. He confirmed a lot of the reporting that was out there about how Trump scorned and mocked disabled veterans. And really, Kelly painted a portrait of Trump as someone who had no idea of what selflessness was. So, of course, Harris was active asked about that at the town hall. And let's see how she responded.
You quoted General Milley calling Donald Trump a fascist. You yourself have not used that word to describe him. Let me ask you tonight. Do you think Donald Trump is a fascist? Yes, I do. Yes, I do. And I also believe that the people who know him best on this subject should be trusted. To give a sense of how Donald Trump is talking in these last days, let's listen to a clip that is hot off the presses. This is from just this morning, Thursday morning. It is Trump talking to Hugh Hewitt on his show. So you're going to have a very tough choice the day after you take the oath of office or maybe even the day that you take the oath of office. You're going to have to pardon yourself or you're going to have to fire Jack Smith. Which one will you do? Oh, it's so easy.
It's so easy. Like, he's a crooked person. He's a tough person. We got immunity at the Supreme Court. It's so easy. I would fire him within two seconds. That's Trump on Hugh Hewitt, and the audio cut out a little bit there because Trump was on his cell phone, not because we were having audio difficulties. James? It's not surprising, but it does sharpen Kamala Harris' closing argument that, as she said on CNN, he's focused on retribution and revenge. He's focused on himself. He's not focused on you.
It is striking that, to James, when he's doing these sort of friendly interviews, he's not doing a CNN town hall. His team sees very little upside. But it is an indication of what you could expect with Trump. play into the Harris argument. But ultimately, it means that everyone is talking about Donald Trump in the final two weeks of the election. And not just talking about Donald Trump, but talking about one of the worst moments of his presidency with less than two weeks to go. This is one of her best issues. And it's something that even Trump supporters aren't necessarily with him on, which is this January 6th issue. So this is the question. It's like, if Trump sucks all the oxygen out of the room, if he is the focus, is that good or bad for him? And depending on what the focus is, are we talking about him serving french fries?
And of course, Kamala Harris is the one who actually worked at McDonald's. Are we talking about him related to January 6th in the special counsel? So that's a good point. I think that's also an important additional sidebar point on this, which is Trump will say one day we're talking about using the military potentially on U.S. citizens. And the next day he goes and works at McDonald's. Right. And it sort of almost washes out, softens his image a little bit. Right. Because he's there. He's friendly. He's joking with staff. And when he goes on these friendly things, we talk about how he's trying to get these low propensity young male voters out. How's he doing that by going on these bro podcasts? Right. He's still doing that. And that's where this he's trying to play up sort of the human side of him. And Harris is trying to draw that contrast of he's a dangerous threat.
Right. Well, J.M., you just got back from Michigan. So let's go a little deeper into that state. James, which way is the wind blowing there? Do we know? Yeah. You know, both sides think the wind is blowing toward Trump. I mean, the blue wall, both campaigns privately acknowledge. I mean, the Trump people don't privately acknowledge. They happily talk about it. But Harris folks feel like the race is moving away from her, that they are feeling increasingly desperate. That's part of the messaging we're seeing is like a Hail Mary of the three blue wall states.
I think Michigan is Harris's weakest. And then you could argue whether Pennsylvania or Wisconsin is the second weakest. But, you know, I think it's 15 electoral votes there. If Harris loses, Michigan is very hard to win. So, J.M., you know, you were following Harris to the state. You did a sweep with our colleague, Amber Ferguson. What did the energy feel like as you were tracking Harris, going to different rallies, seeing her supporters? Yeah, we went to three different Harris events in about a 36, 48 hour stretch there.
across the board. I mean, these are rally goers. So these are high propensity voters. These are very engaged people, but they pretty consistently said it felt like 2008. It felt like Obama level energy.
They there was one man I spoke with at Harris's evening rally in Oakland County this past Friday outside Detroit. And he lives in Lexington, Michigan, and his self-described very red county. And he said in 2020, he wasn't comfortable putting a bumper sticker on his car in support of Joe Biden. And this time around, he's seeing a lot more yard signs. Don't vote bumper stickers. Don't vote. But he's seeing a lot more of that sort of overt enthusiasm. A lot of the less we were just talking about kind of the shy vote, a lot less of that. So the enthusiasm does seem to be there among at least some of who they need. But as James was just pointing out, there are some warning signs for Democrats. And you mentioned it a little earlier, but let's put a fine point on it.
groups that are behind Kamala Harris's problem. I talked to a senior Democrat in Michigan who said that it's the Arab Americans, it's Gen Z, not hitting the numbers they need. It's... African-American men and its union households. And I know you kind of touched all four of those, but I mean, that's, that is the democratic coalition. And then again, it's not like collapse. It's just like, you know, the difference between winning 60% of union households and 55% of union households can make the difference. It's going to be a close race. You need the 60. You need the 60. Yeah. I was gonna say, Jim, you talked to some people about the African-American men. Yeah. I mean, I talked to, so I talked to this, the Michigan.
Speaker of the House, Joe Tate, who represents part of Detroit. And then I talked to Tyrone Carter, who represents part of Detroit, both state representatives. And I asked them about this issue. They they did sort of downplay how soft they thought the especially young black male support was. Carter specifically referenced kind of outreach programs that he's involved in. But it is something that Democrats are worried about, that her support might not be where it needs to be with that group. And it could cost them the state. And in terms of Arab Americans, Rhonda, I mean, there is so much distress and heartache over Gaza. And now, as we've seen attacks in Lebanon.
Christian Arabs in America are getting very upset at what's happening, and they are saying they may not vote at the top of the ticket. That's always been the weak link or really the wild card for Democrats when talking about Michigan. Michigan has the highest population of Arab American voters, so this was always going to be an area of vulnerability for Democrats. It was when Biden was on the ticket. Harris has not really changed that sentiment. And then also, even though we're days away from the election, we still have things that could happen in the Middle East that kind of tilt the balance a little bit, too, or affect the sentiment. So it's of no surprise that that is one of the areas that the Democratic strategists you spoke with said that they are a little concerned about. Jim, I want to talk about union households, because you actually went to a pro-Harris union rally event, get out the vote. The union is very much, unions are very much behind Harris, with the notable exception of the Teamsters.
But let's talk about the union leadership versus the union members. Yeah. So when the Teamsters, the national Teamsters declined to endorse, you saw some Teamsters presidents in some key states come out almost immediately and endorse Harris. One of those was Kevin Moore, who's the president of Michigan Teamsters. So he was at this event this past Saturday that I was at south of Detroit. Basically, every national union leader was at this event.
The enthusiasm was there. There were a fair number of union members there. But this is, again, them trying to shore up that union household vote, because, as you mentioned, even just losing a percentage or a couple percentage points could cost them the state. I also ran into Congresswoman Debbie Dingell at this event. And one thing she said to me and when she was speaking to attendees was, in her words, she knew at this point in 2016 that Hillary Clinton lost the state. She's not sure whether Democrats have won the state yet and said that they haven't won it yet. She's not sure whether it's won or lost. So she's telling them to be on alert.
Get out and do it. All right. Well, stay with us. We're going to pivot now to Pennsylvania in just a moment and bring in our colleague, Jorge Ribas. We'll be right back. Love riding no matter the weather? We get it. Don't love insurance that leaves you out in the cold? We got you. Cooperators provides personalized snowmobile insurance so you can keep your cool on every adventure. Get a quote and buy online. Cooperators. Investments. Insurance. Advice.
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Senior video journalist Jorge Ribas joins us as he is about to leave, like, right after we leave this taping, Jorge, for Pennsylvania. We're going to be road tripping, and you've been a lot. Yeah, I'm leaving really right as soon as we finish talking. I'm going to be going to Mannheim, Pennsylvania, where there's an event. Actually, it's an event. It's a Trump-adjacent event with RFK Jr. and Dr. Phil, part of their, like, Make America Healthy Again tour. So I'm going to be talking to voters there. I'm kind of curious as to just, like, who goes to these events when Trump's not involved.
what kind of voters are there and what kind of people and what the people are talking about. And we're going to be talking to voters there about the issues that are important to them and sort of getting to know some of these voters at these events. So you went out last week with supporters of Kamala Harris who were going door to door, caucusing, and you guys hit a red-leaning county. So where were you and who were they targeting? Yeah, so I drove up to Lancaster, Pennsylvania, which is about two-ish hours drive north from here in D.C. And it is a red-leaning county, like you said. It's a county that voted.
pretty much like 60% for Trump in 2020 and similar-ish in 2016 for Trump over Clinton. And we went out, I went up there and in the downtown, went to the Harris Walls kind of campaign headquarters in downtown Lancaster, in the town of Lancaster and went and they had kind of this little operation in the basement of a building downtown. There were people, volunteers, they were kind of stacking all the paperwork they were going to hand out when they canvassed. I met with one of the volunteers there, a woman named Stella Sexton. She's part of the Democratic Committee in Lancaster County. She's a volunteer for the Harris campaign. And we it was interesting because I wanted to know more like what stage they were in regarding the door to door, the canvassing. And she said right now in there.
like at the stage of this election, we're only like two weeks away. We were like two and a half weeks out when I was there. Is there, they're done kind of the persuading part, the persuading part, which, you know, going to independence, maybe Republicans that had voted for, um, for Nikki Haley and trying to convince them and talk to them. This was more in the summer and, and really kind of see, you know, they could convince them to swing over or people that were still undecided and they were done with that. And now they were really firmly in the kind of get out the boat.
What's your plan to vote? So we walked, we drove a little bit outside of the downtown into some of the immediate suburbs of Lancaster. And they had a list. She had an app that was kind of showing her which houses were registered Democrats and kind of what stage they were, if they had turned in their mail-in votes yet, if they hadn't. So it was really interesting kind of to see, like, we knocked on a few houses at the beginning. And, you know, one voter had said she'd already turned in her mail-in ballot. Another one sort of reminding them, like, oh, yeah, you know, remember to do this. Remember to turn it in.
And then a couple of the voters we talked with were kind of like getting their plans ready for, like they were planning to vote on the day of and sort of just like a reminder, like, okay, do you have, you know, a childcare coverage? Do you, you know, do you know what you're going to do? Like, are you and your partner, if you both are going to go vote at the same time, like, where are you going to go? And it was really kind of at that stage of getting up. Yeah. It's like, really have a plan. Like, what is your plan? Yeah. Yeah. It was really kind of, I'd never really seen it on that level before. We did actually end up talking to also a voter who hadn't made up their minds yet. And, you know, she made a note, like, we need to make sure we go back out there for that.
Okay, so James, meanwhile, you were also in Pennsylvania. I was. I also went door knocking. With a very different group. Very different group. Republicans. But not just any old, well, actually, they are the old group. They are the old guard of Republicans. I was with some young people, yeah. So the Americans for Prosperity Action, which is the political arm of Charles Cope, the billionaire industrialist, they do not support Donald Trump. They remain never Trumpers. They actually spent like $100 million trying to help Nikki Haley win in the Republican primaries. And this is why I'm like, this is not the regular old Republicans, but actually it is the old school Republicans. Yeah. And so they, they're focused on Senate races and they are spending a lot of money.
in a lot of, they've knocked more than 900,000 doors. They're on track to knock over a million doors in Pennsylvania alone to help Dave McCormick, the Republican Senate candidate. And one of the things they're doing is going to the homes of people that they're modeling says likely support Trump and convincing those people to also vote for Dave McCormick. He's running against Bob Casey, whose dad was governor. He's running for a third term, actually fourth term, he's in his third term. And so they're basically trying to reach like old school Democrats, sort of ancestral Democrats who voted for the Casey's, but are now Trump.
supporters to also vote for the republican down ballot uh and so we uh i spent a shift following these four uh canvassers around and went to a lot of doors and it was interesting because uh it it's kind of shocking how i think i went to a very working class neighborhood in 2022 when i went door knocking to cover it like in pennsylvania like how much covet has changed things like compared to door knocking in previous like there are a lot of people who work from home now you know when you knock on the door all the day are kind of there um so there was a pretty good engagement rate and uh but i was really struck by uh like how many people who were like lifelong Democrats now supporting Trump have recently re-registered. When you get your driver's license renewed in Pennsylvania, you can change your party registrations. And like a lot of people who just were Democrats, now Republicans, and they were listening, you know, hearing the case from McCormick and often telling people they wouldn't support him too. And as part of, they've switched from sort of persuasion to GOTV, get out the vote. And as part of going to the doors, they ask everyone, like, what is the most important issue? And in this sort of two neighborhoods that we walked in, immigration and the border came up more than any other. Now the Koch folks tell me that statewide...
the economy and inflation comes up more than immigration. So this was kind of this sample, but it was really striking because like, it's it immigration now feels like a pocketbook close to home issue to a lot of people this isn't an area with a lot of immigrants this isn't an area with um you know like migrants who've come in uh and like one of the most interesting moments of the day came when uh this woman who was knocking on doors went up to someone's door and the family wasn't home but there were like three contractors doing like a work on their house and so she said oh are you guys gonna vote and uh and they were like very well politicians stink i don't like politics like i like trump and so this woman was like well you should support dave mccormick you know she's trying to make the case and and like these three guys basically all were like, well, is he going to send the illegals back? Is he going to deport all these people? I mean, it was just, they were three white men. Yeah. And it was, I mean, it was very visceral. They were upset about them taking their jobs. They were. They have jobs. They're working. Right. No, that's, and so anyway, it was, it was one of those things where it was like, there's this real anger and hostility and they actually have this, this job. They're working. Jorge, um, when you were in Lancaster and I'm going to go with the local pronunciation of Lancaster, uh, but you can stick with Lancaster. It's controversial, but you can stick with it. Um, when you were there, were you hearing a lot about immigration? What issues were coming up for people? Now you were with the, with the Harris team, but what were people talking about at the doors? I was not aware there was another pronunciation. It really goes both ways
um yeah i mean one you know that was another thing that we talked a lot about with the voters um and i would interview them after after um the canvasser i talked to them and one of the main ones reproductive rights was like the top issue that came up with several people both men and women actually um we uh we talked to i think i i think a few voters mentioned um i had two voters tell me that kindness was a factor that um and you know you've heard kind of like the meme like i prefer the mean tweets and stuff but there's not what did you just say i prefer the what Mean tweets. I prefer the mean tweets. He's talking to me like I'm a teenager. What is a mean? I'm sorry. There's this idea that if we have cheaper gas and et cetera, and if we have to pay for it with mean tweets, it's worth the price. Gotcha. That's the talking point you see. I asked what was a top issue on their mind. A couple people. One was a school teacher. She told me that kindness. Kindness is a factor. A representative having a president who's...
kinder is important to her, you know, when she's teaching kids. But the main thing I think that came up was reproductive rights. I mean, I heard immigration come up, but the gentleman who I talked to mentioned to me that immigration for him felt more that, you know, he didn't want to see people deported, that he didn't think it was, that was the American sort of way of doing things. And so I could see it, I could see it, you know, James, what you mentioned in terms of jobs and things, but from the other perspective, at least from the Democratic perspective, it came up as well. James, what were you hearing in terms of issues? Now, you were also tracking Harris, so much like Jorge, you were looking at more the Democratic picture of Michigan, but what issues were coming up?
I mean, reproductive health comes up. Democracy comes up a lot. Economy a little less so. I mean, those are those are the main things that repeatedly come up. I think the democracy thing is interesting because as we were talking about in the first segment, that is seemingly so much for closing argument here.
And if that's where the base voters are, then that could be good for the Harris campaign in terms of energizing any folks on the margins to get out. Let's talk about a red state that you were just in, Rhonda, in Montana, beautiful Montana. What issues were popping for voters there? Exactly the same thing. Reproductive rights and immigration. I spoke to and this will be a part of an upcoming story that everyone who's listening right now can check out in a few days. But I spoke to Montana voters. And the reason why is because they have this really crucial Senate seat that has been for the last year deemed as one of the toss ups. Right now it's leaning Republican. But they do have a Democratic incumbent senator who is has been very popular and been able to survive reelection there. So that's.
race that I know a lot of people are watching. I talked to voters there. They named that immigration was a big issue, mainly the idea of closing the borders. That is something that that's a talking point that is very attractive to to them. I also spoke to people who said that reproductive rights is important. And that may also be because in Montana, there is an abortion referendum on their ballot. So that is something they're seeing commercials about. They're talking about and they have some discomfort on the issue and how big it is right now in our politics. But overall, one thing that I did hear from either those who would go on camera and talk to me or those who are like, no, I'm not doing camera. I will tell you my thoughts on the side. A lot of people are just craving both sides.
to come together. I had one man tell me when he learned I was from Washington, D.C. or live in Washington, D.C. and work in Washington, D.C. He said, oh, the bad Washington. He thought I was from Washington State. But he said, I will tell you what I think. I think that in Congress specifically, there needs to be more bipartisanship. We are tired of one side says this, the other side says that, and they're both lying. That's what he said. So other people said it in other ways, but you do feel this sentiment from a lot of Americans that are like, this is just, we have...
We've gone too far on both sides. And they're really craving, you know, more people to come into the middle. And also they're craving better tone from your politicians. Well, coming up in our next segment, we will talk about someone who was doing the exact opposite of what you're talking about, Rhonda, who's really going deeper and further into the anger, the mistruths, the fighting. And that's Elon Musk. So stay with us. We'll say goodbye to JM and to Jorge. Safe travels, Jorge, as you head to Pennsylvania. Thank you. Yeah, I'm leaving right now. We'll let the bosses know. All right, stay with us, everybody else.
You're listening to Sidebar from The Washington Post. Let's talk about Elon Musk and his role in this campaign, James. He has gone all in for Donald Trump and he's going to end up spending over $100 million. And he's not just writing checks. He's like actively out there. He's funding what he's calling America PAC. And he did three stops in Pennsylvania.
This past weekend, I went to the one in Pittsburgh and he drew a massive crowd of people that don't normally come to political rallies. There were some Trump mega people, but it was a lot of people just like love Elon Musk, you know, robotics nerds, you know, who are like Tesla fans. And he kind of has the zeal of a convert. He voted for Joe Biden in 2020. And he feels like the Biden administration stumped him because Tesla isn't unionized. And so he wasn't invited to like an electric vehicle summit. And he's really angry about that. He's pretty open that that's sort of what prompted this radicalization. But now he's like pouring so much money in and he's doing it in a couple of ways. The thing that's getting the kind of the attention.
is that every day from the weekend until the election, he's giving a $1 million check to someone who's registered to vote in one of the seven swing states. If they sign a petition, and the petition is very kind of broad, it says like, I promise to support the First and Second Amendments. And so someone at this event in Pittsburgh got a million dollar, one of those big... checks and uh there are legal questions about this you're not allowed to pay people to register to vote right and so the justice department sent a letter to elon musk's pack saying this could be illegal and then they changed their script and they said we're going to give away a million dollars for people to become a spokesperson for the pack but that doesn't necessarily solve the underlying legal issues but i think if you have that much money do you even care if you're breaking the law well it depends on how you're breaking the law right i mean if you're if you face any criminal penalties it's not clear that you would if it's just a fine uh then it's no big deal just to find that would put me and ronda under exactly but yeah i mean of course obviously i'm just saying like when you are looking at you like really is this really like a million dollars is like such a mind-blowing amount of money there was like a lot of working-class people or it's just a man and it's just like this like random person in the crowd who i'd seen like three minutes before just like what's in it doesn't get some million dollar check if people are excited about it it is getting the buzz um but like he's doing so many kind of sinister things like
He is running very micro-targeted ads at Jewish voters. Jewish voters account for 3% of the population in Pennsylvania. And it's like Kamala Harris hates Israel and supports a two-state solution. And then he's running ads aimed at Arab voters in Michigan that say Kamala Harris loves Israel and hates Muslims and is always going to stand with Netanyahu. It's just like the ads are the opposite of each other. And it's very cynical. And then the thing that was most striking, and we ran an editorial about this, is that he is urging people to post any unsubstantiated...
theory of voter fraud or any impropriety or shenanigan on twitter x and he's like promising to amplify it and he's like if you know whether it's true you know we if you just if you have any concerns just put him on x and like and we're gonna like get to the bottom of it so he's basically like inviting people to just like cast doubt on the election and he's been retweeting tons of like demonstrably false conspiracy theories on the day i saw him on sunday he uh like he tweeted some ridiculous thing that like there are more um there are more registered voters in michigan than there are people in michigan which isn't true and he just like tweeted it so it's it's i mean it's he owns this very powerful platform and he's like actively sort of like spreading falsehoods on there and he's really laying the foundation for post-election there to just be like chaos and muck and doubt no matter who wins and you can bet like our foreign adversaries are gonna like play that up and amplify it as well it's such it's so easy right it's he's opening the door and to make it so easy for them he's also joking and i'm putting this in air quotes for those who are listening to this um about someone killing kamala harris and how like you know So he's also talking about things that are just usually beyond the pale in American politics. I mean, with this event in Pittsburgh, like he came on.
and it was really awkward and like the first few minutes like this woman in the crowd was like i'm 90 and he's like i don't know that i'm gonna be lived to be 90 because now that i'm taking on the democrats like they might not let me live that long and like he basically was like i don't have a death wish but i know i'm taking a i'm increasing the risk of being assassinated and it's sort of like it's just it's like needlessly inflaming everything and making it like life or death and then he's like he he was like the democrats they're they're committing sedition against america they hate america and then like 10 seconds later he's like i just one of the things i don't like about the left is their vitriol i was like are you listening to yourself you know there is this it is it's kind of remarkable uh and he's really very much out there. And I mean, it might, I don't know if it might activate some people who aren't necessarily regular voters. Well, like you said, James, so much of this may reveal itself after the election, when we see in the aftermath how people react to whatever the results are. We're going to talk more about just how Americans may react if their candidate doesn't win in just a moment with our colleague Hyo Chang Kim. Stay with us for one last segment.
For a final segment today, we're joined by video journalist Yo-Jung Kim. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Yo-Jung, you hit the campaign trail in Michigan recently with campaign and politics reporter Colby Ikkowitz to ask voters a really interesting question. What will you do if your candidate does not win? What did you hear?
So Colby and I went to back to back Trump and Harris rallies. The Trump one was in Saginaw and the Harris one was in Flint. And those two cities are less than 40 miles apart. So very close to each other. And we wanted to know how these supporters would process the defeat of our candidate. And one thing in common that I observed is that nobody, absolutely no one wants another insurrection, which is awesome. But there was a slight difference in connotation, though. The Trump supporters were like, we don't want another January 6th, but it is totally and completely within Donald Trump's rights to challenge the result if he were to lose. But on the other hand, the Harris supporters were like, yeah, we don't want any violence. We don't want insurrection. We just want her to concede as she said she would. So that was a little bit.
of a difference. And people's reaction to our question was actually very different. The hair supporters had much more visceral reaction to this hypothetical scenario of Trump winning. And to me, it felt like people truly believe that democracy is going to fall under his administration. And they were really, really scared. And many said that they would actually leave the country or at least want to leave the country. And a lot of them also said they would get more involved with local politics and grassroots efforts to, you know, protect themselves and their loved ones. On the other hand, though, Trump supporters, they seemed quite resigned to me, to be honest. And a lot of them simply said that they would be disappointed if Trump were to lose. And many just shrugged their shoulders and said that, you know, there's nothing they can do.
So they will just pray. A lot of them said that the only way Democrats could win this election is by stealing it again, like they did in 2020. And despite all the effort, you know, Trump's effort to make things right, nothing really happened. So these Trump supporters feel like if this were to happen again, then the history is going to repeat itself. So they feel like there is really nothing they can do. Let's listen to some of what you heard. And we'll start with some Harris supporters. If Trump wins, I would like to leave the country. You almost feel like you would have to leave the country, to be quite honest. I'm thinking about moving across the border. I thought about moving. Canada's not that far. Move to Canada? I would be ready to move out of the country. Yeah. I'm serious.
Wow. Wow. Yeah. That's quite a mashup. Yeah. And that's not even everything. There were a lot more people who said, I want to leave the country, but for the time constraint, I only have to choose the best one. I mean, you know, we're sort of laughing just because it's like, it's so astounding, but obviously it's revealing a deep seated concern about the health of democracy, of American democracy, surviving Trump. And you can get this real sense of anxiety from it. Yeah. And that actually, I'm not surprised actually to see that. I love how it comes through that when you're hearing it from, you know, voters mouths, but I've heard that too. I've heard it since the last election when Trump ran that.
A lot of people who do not support him, they are so turned off and so fearful that it would make them consider moving. And we should also say geographically, Michigan isn't too far from the border. So when the woman did say she said she was going to move across the border, I think she means the northern border, right? Yes, for sure. But, you know...
Those sentiments are real. And you can see sort of the split screen in the U.S. electorate right now where you have Trump supporters who are like, yeah, I would hate for Harris to win. And they, you know, all the rhetoric about the Democrats will steal the election, but they don't have that level of fear. And you wonder if that's because they know Harris will likely run a traditional administration that is more in line to past presidents. She probably won't shake anything up to the point of, you know, an insurrection at the Capitol. But for Trump, for people who don't support him, they are fearing multiple things. They are fearing our relations globally. They're fearing reproductive rights. They're fearing, you know, maybe more conservative additions to the Supreme Court. They are fearing so much.
And, you know, it just feels like one side feels they have a lot more to lose than the other. And yet Donald Trump is talking in very frightening, radical terms about how dangerous it would be if Harris became president. He's called her an SHIT vice president. He's used this really angry, derogatory language about her. But the Republicans that you heard from, Yeo Jung, who were at a Trump event, weren't fired up with that fury and rage. Instead, they seemed like they were just a little more resigned. They were at first. So the first question we asked was, how would you feel? And then we went into the more nitty gritty, asking them if they would actually take any actionable moves in order to, you know, like.
handle the situation. But when we just asked them, you know, like how they feel, they would first be like, oh, I'll be disappointed. And then the, the gradation of, you know, the rage would just, you know, like kick in for some reason. And they would just keep on parroting all the exact phrases Trump would use in his rallies too. And then when we actually asked them, oh, are you actually going to do any of those things? And they're like, no.
it's you know it's not gonna happen or they're gonna be like you know even if we do these kind of even if we take these kind of steps you know no one's gonna take it seriously so might as well not do it which is kind of interesting like cognitive dissonance for me let's listen to one of the people that you talked to who are we gonna hear from so this is gonna be from mr arthur garcia he is a 68 year old voter retired computer technician also retired vet okay let's listen we can't do anything about it because they did it already once i feel they did that with the uh 2020 election and we can't do anything about it because they uh they're real smart in what they do and we just uh Took it all in. And I guess we're going to have to do it again if we lose. That's a tape that Hyo Zhang collected in Michigan at a Trump rally. Rhonda? You know, I think that mirrors what Republicans feel right now. And it also just, I don't know if the man followed up with you or Colby, but did he discuss, you know, misinformation or anything that he's been hearing, like specifically why he believes what he believes? Did he say any more? A lot of election integrity arguments that we've been hearing from the Republican Party all over for the past four years, really.
felt like he and also all the Trump supporters that we talked to really, really believes that the election has been stolen and Donald Trump has been using his personal money and time in order to save the country, which is an interesting thought process. But people truly believe that. I guess no one was going to say, I'm going to storm the Capitol if my candidate doesn't win. But I think I was expecting maybe a little more heat from Republicans than what you got. Do you know what I mean? I mean, a lot of it, honestly, look, if Trump had accepted the results of the 2020 election, January 6th would not have happened. But he summoned the mob.
directed them to the Capitol. And so a lot of it depends on after the election, if it is close and if, you know, if there's, if Trump loses and if, and it's honestly very hard to imagine Trump being like, well, you know, like it was fair and square. And, you know, I wish Vice President Harris well, you know, based on from what we've seen over and over again, is that he won't concede. He lost Iowa to Ted Cruz and said it was still in the caucuses in 2016. And this is, this is his playbook. And maybe even some of his, even core supporters kind of are like, okay, he always says that it is what it is. But I do think so much of it depends on the leadership. Like if Trump is out there.
post-election and he very well could win outright win fair and swear and like um but if he loses um and and you know he's like fanning the flames and i think you know his supporters may you know and also well they may they may go to the streets or be violent and the thing is it also depends on state election officials it also depends on state leadership it also depends on how sober and orderly it is in states like Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, in terms of vote counts and things like that, that will, I mean, you know, it's like a eruption. I would just also add to that. It's up to national Republicans too. So much after the 2020 election, I remember when we were on the air for maybe what, like the third or fourth night of that election week, we were waiting for, you know, McConnell or other leadership in the U S Senate Republican leadership to say, you know what, we're going to accept the results. They didn't, they kind of, you know, hemmed and hawed around it and waited for Trump to take the lead. And that helped open the door for others to feel comfortable. Well, if the other leaders at the top are, you know, decrying what he's saying, then he must be right. So it's up to a lot.
of national Republicans, too. Maybe not so much the RNC, because we know he very much runs that right now. But other Republican voices will have to stand up. Yeah, I mean, this sad, scary reality is that the overwhelming majority of Trump supporters could accept that he lost, you know, maybe they'd see him, whatever, you know, but all it takes is a very small number to be violent. And so that is, that is sort of worrisome. So if many of Trump supporters who you talk to might be saying, oh, this is what he says, or...
you know, this is how this goes. It only takes one in 20, it only takes one in 50 or one in a hundred or one in a thousand, uh, to take him literally and also follow exactly what he says and make it a dangerous situation. So Hyojung, thank you so much for your reporting, um, to read, watch, and listen to the reporting of Hyojung Kim and our colleague Colby Ikowicz. Look in the Washington post next week. Excited to see the final results of your reporting. And we'll also be seeing your piece from Montana shortly, Rhonda, which I'm really excited about. So check out WashingtonPost.com. Thanks to everybody today. And I want to give a shout out, of course, to J.M. Rieger and Jorge Rivas, who joined us earlier. A reminder that you can follow Sidebar on your favorite podcast app. Hit that subscribe button. Or you can catch us on YouTube, where you can also subscribe to The Washington Post. That's free. Doesn't cost you anything. And you get Sidebar and other programming, including election night.
We'll be back next Thursday with Sidebar. There will then be only five days, folks, five days until the election day. And on election night, we will be broadcasting here on YouTube as well as on the Washington Post homepage with live coverage. Our team will start at seven o'clock Eastern time and we'll have immediate results coming in. We'll be tracking it in real time. We'll have all the races updated. We'll have James at a touchscreen showing us all the counties and districts and everything, filling in all the blanks for us. Rhonda will be a part of it. And so will some other reporters who will be scattered really across the country representing the Washington Post. I like to tell people it is a place to get.
Just the facts, just straight analysis, reporting, no pundits shouting at each other. James and Rhonda and I promise not to throw things. It's just a place to get the news and get what's going on. And you get the best of, this is my spiel. It's a good plug. You get the best of the Washington Post. I'm very proud of our election night. Thank you. Because we're talking to all of our colleagues across the newsroom. We have these super smart people who are all feeding the live show and you can catch it on YouTube or on the Washington Post, seven o'clock Eastern time on election night. And we'll be on air the days afterwards as needed.
So pack your sleeping bag, Rhonda. We'll be here for a while. All right, that's it for Sidebar. I'm Libby Casey. Thanks, James and Rhonda. And everybody, we'll see you next week. Uncle Bob can fix just about anything around the house, at least according to him. But when it comes to natural gas appliances, they should always be inspected by a qualified professional. Learn more at embridgegas.com slash safety.
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