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Alright, let's get on with the show. Waiting down upon the underworld to smash gangland, come a friend of the unfortunate enemy of criminal. In a serious, powerful character, a problem to the police, but a true state of law. Hello everybody, welcome to the Elseworlds Exchange of Sal.
I'm Joel. Today, I didn't want to talk about a deep, heavy topic, so instead we're going to chat about today's issue of Avengers No.675, which is written by three different people and really managed to maintain a singular voice. Isn't that nice? Yeah, it's nice.
It's written by Mark Wade, Jim Sub, and Al-Yooing? Is that right? I think that's everybody. Yeah, the three main Avengers writers right now.
Yeah, and for a minute, I was like, oh man, I'm actually kind of worried that Mark Wade, because I've been really soft on Mark Wade's Avengers run. I was really worried about it, but like, I saw a post on the subreddit r slash comic books, which I frequent, and Jim Sub himself posted a thing where he's like, I hope you guys like this Avengers book. I worked really hard on it. And I was like, that literally, I saw that and went, alright, I'm reading it.
And I read it and like, you, I believe, I believe both are of the opinion that Avengers No Surrender Part 1 of 2700, a weekly series that will never end, is good. It's quite pleasant. Yeah, it actually, and we'll talk about like, I want to couch this episode by talking about not just like the issue itself, so spoilers for this issue folks, but hopefully you can hang out and feel them before they're about to arrive, because I want to talk about like the fact that we literally just released here on comic-op, a hour-long video, where we highlighted all the mistakes marbles made over the last time. And I think that was very in-depth and very informative.
That was a good episode. Thank you. And then of course, the next episode, I also was going to talk about what a great issue this was for Marvel and an event no less. And I wanted to kind of like address that superficial hypocrisy, but also by saying like, the video we made, if you haven't watched it by the way, it's a really fun video Joel himself endorses it, check it out after this episode, of course.
But the point is, we talked about this like, this issue that Marvel's been having. 2017 was not the only bad year Marvel's had and was transitioned away from it. It wasn't the only bad year that Marvel's had. In fact, I think that it's only been kind of progressively getting worse until we get into 2018.
But the video itself was not from a place of like, Marvel sucks, I hate what Marvel's doing, everything they do is bad, I'm gleefully dancing on their grave. Oh, it was very even-handed. Well, it was even-handed because at the end of the day, we want good comics and I love Marvel comics. Same.
And I want them to be good and I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. And so I jumped into this Avengers No Surrender thing, knowing full well that not only did Marvel say, we're not doing any of any events for a while, and then in the same breath saying that every new issue is going to be an event. An event unto itself, but this is a weekly series and kind of a crossover between the three Avengers books, but we're stopping the three Avengers books, so you only have to buy one, which I appreciate. Which, fine by me, it was- There was already too many Avengers books, I'm glad it's down to one.
Well, I remember when Avengers, I remember a time when the Avengers were so toxic, you know, they had one book and it was the worst. It was like, they were publishing it out of habit. And then they were like, I don't even know what to do, I guess we'll release like another Avengers book that's on another coast and hopefully that'll make it better. And then it didn't and they canceled it and then they folded them back in and then created this awful team called Force Works.
Oh yeah. Just the worst. But the Avengers got so toxic that like, you know, who was even buying those Avengers books to begin with? Now there's so many goddamn Avengers books, you really do need to compartmentalize it.
Indeed. They basically brand new data up with the Avengers. They really did. Because if you're not familiar with brand new day, Spider-Man, after one more day, they canceled all the Spider-books.
These include books like Spectacular Spider-Man, Web of Spider-Man, Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, Spider-Man Unlimited, all these books. They basically canceled any long running or any other books besides amazing. And then just repackaged them as amazing Spider-Man books and put out like a thousand new issues of amazing Spider-Man in a year because it went from four monthly titles to one weekly Spider-Man title. Yeah.
And great idea. And from what I remember, I remember Dan Slott cut his teeth doing, I mean he cut his teeth on like red and stinky. Lots of books, yeah. But he cut his teeth like regularly writing Spider-Man through the meat grinder that was brand new day.
And he described it as such. He described it as a meat grinder where he's like, we just, we all have these ideas. We throw them on the table. We cut them up.
We split them up. Then we take these chunks and we just work through it. You know, say what you will about the quality or about the tonal type. Well, longevity.
Yeah. But the fact that books came out on time, they were consistently written. I did not like, I love Bob Gale in Back the Future as much as everybody else. Bob Gale Spider-Man ain't my Spider-Man.
Didn't like this. But I really, really loved the fact that it was so consistently written and so consistently drawn. And they managed to keep up the pace for so long. Absolutely.
They really get speaking of like just a couple days ago, it was the ten year anniversary of Dan Slott writing Spider-Man. It's like, wow, you've been doing this for a whole decade. Yeah. And you know it didn't feel like ten years for him because he's like, oh shit, I haven't even gotten to like this other huge era of Spider-Man that I will never get a chance to write because, reportedly, he's leaving after 800.
But I believe it when I see it. Same here. Well, again, the rumor that they floated around, I'm sure you heard it too, is like, yeah, he's off amazing. But we're giving him another Spider-Man title that will just be his off to the side.
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw the return of either from the neighborhood or web of something like that. Because I can imagine it being friendly neighborhood just because of that like, that 4chan rumor that gets spread around. But also, I would think he'd want to push web of just because he like me is a classic Spider-Man fan who loves like the legacy. And I was a big fan of the web of series until Arthur Sudayum took over the art.
Then it was like, woof. I was gonna say friendly neighborhood only because they are pushing the friendly neighborhood side of the character so hard in the movies as of now. This is true. I mean, like the fact is he's always been referred to as a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man.
I'm really glad that they did that homage in the movie. Absolutely. And it was about time that they launched friendly neighborhood back when they did during the more long era. During the other.
Interestingly enough or depressingly enough from the neighborhood I had to launch in the middle of that event and not like in a refreshing time where Peter David could have actually told a story. He had to frick and fold it in with Trisinski's awful more than the other thing. But anyway, that's all along deep dive to get to the point that, hey, Avengers is weekly and they're trying to get you on board by giving you this event called Avengers No Surrender. Which I've heard worse Avengers titles before.
It's true. I'll take it. But legitimately I read Jim's up as plea to read the book. I want to like Marvel again and I want to get in on the Avengers.
The book that pulled me back into Marvel besides Sresinti Spider-Man. The guy who pulled me into the greater Marvel universe in 2000. What, two, three? I don't recall.
Was New Avengers. Was an Avenger book. I want to be on board with an all star cast of an Avengers title. And Avengers No Surrender seems like a good place.
And the first issue if it maintains that feeling and this energy is a good step forward. It's a hell of a lot of energy. I appreciate it. I was sure to mention this on Twitter.
Man does it seem like we're entering a bit of a direction change here for Marvel storylines. We sure did see a lot of mutants and fantastic four characters in prominent roles in this story, right? Doing what they're supposed to do like Beast Use in his big brain. Rogue being looked you as an elder states person of the Marvel universe and taking a leadership role.
Yeah. There was a lot to like, let's talk about what happened in this issue. Let's actually break down the issue itself. Jolie, you want to take the beginning?
What's the catalyst for this issue? Surprisingly enough. Yeah, so spoilers abound everybody. Surprisingly enough we start off with a little mini story, like a little self-contained story with a lesser known Avenger.
I wonder if we're going to follow his story or if every new issue we're going to have a little anthology bit to start it off. But we follow living lightning who is now just calling himself a lightning. Yeah, living lightning, by the way, I had to recheck. I was like, once he said living lightning, I'm like, is he talking about living laser or is he talking about the west coast of Endures character?
It was like, quick Google search. Oh my God, living lightning. I haven't seen you in so long and like, kind of cool. I expect him to die immediately.
Just to set the stakes to be like, oh shit, anyone can die, even living lightning. It's more like I need to establish some kind of stakes. Let's kill the character no one's asked for in the last 20 years. That is a very comic book thing.
They do that all the time in DC for the big crisis events. Oh no, we killed Aztec or somebody. Right, exactly. Fine by me, by the way.
I know a lot of people like Aztec is great, more than created him. He's back currently in JLA. I've stopped reading JLA, but apparently he's come back. I dropped JLA after issue two.
Yeah, that's me too. I wanted to like JLA so bad because I like Steve Orlando and I like the idea of a different tier of Justice League. But at the same time, I'm just like, this doesn't do it for him. But Christopher Priest's Justice League is doing it for me at the moment.
Justice League books should like the Avengers books not only have your top talent, but also always be your number one book. They should be total flagships. Yes, the fact that DC led Justice League, Wayne, when everything else was firing on all cylinders is so weird. It was like a Ode, Brian, hitch, a big fat favor.
Anyway, so yes, Avengers No Surrender opens up with living lightning, doing a sting operation, using his powers, but more in a desperate situation to stop some car thieves. Yeah, busting up a chop shop. And that was cool. It was just fun to see superheroes being superheroes and doing stuff in a different region than just the Eastern Seaboard.
Absolutely, yeah. A lot of really cool stuff. Okay, the story opens up, you know, living lightning, doing this thing. And then they don't waste any time.
Like, they should hit the fan. Oh, does it ever? The Sky Turns Red and... So you know it's serious.
It's like the later seasons of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles when the Sky Turns Red. Exactly. Sky Turns Red, communications offline. It actually had shades of an event.
We're doing on back issues coming up. So I don't want to get too into the plot. I'm gonna mix them up and accidentally do whatever that's going to be. Please continue.
Like, communications down, the sky's red, everyone's got to respond, and basically all the Avengers kind of come together. Mm-hmm. All the different Avengers teams that have been fragmented by infighting and just by, you know, circumstance. Now they're all working together.
And it was a really nice moment to see Beast kind of take point on this one being like, Hey, I'm a big brain. I'll work the computers and make sure everyone gets to where they need to go. Yes, it was amazing actually to me how quickly, even though, like, number one, the Fox Disney thing has to go through an antitrust filter, but also the fact that, like, things won't be finalized for another year or so. But it's nice to know that even despite all of those things, Marvel Comics is reflecting the fact that they're all unified by being like, Oh, yo, you know, it was really important and cool?
The X-Men. And quickly too, I think the idea was that this one was already in the tank and they already had the first couple written, and they're like, Okay, if the deal goes through, we'll keep letting mutants and Fantastic Four have prominent roles in this story. If not, we'll roll it back as we can. Right, exactly.
And I assume you were very excited to see the first major superhero we see after living lightning, of course. Yes, Falcon, who is still, again, in a prominent role, he's still leading his version of the Mark Wade Avengers team, and he's the first one to kind of look up in the sky and go, Guys, I think we have a problem here. Yeah, and then basically it's just the whole book is just the Avengers kind of getting their bearings and saving people. Keeping you up to date saying like, Hey, it's okay if you didn't read Occupy Avengers, it's okay if you didn't read Uncanny.
We're gonna get you settled with the teams and show you who's who and where's where. That really helped me out because like, I sure as hell dropped USA Avengers, Occupy Avengers, Uncanny. I was so sick of Avengers at that point. I'm like, I can't really have any of them.
And the main Avengers, the Mark Wade Avengers, I just, I could not. I think I dropped every, nearly every marble title I dropped over the last few months. And that's just like, woof. It was funny to see the Occupy Avengers because that book got canceled so early on.
I think that book got canceled before David Walker could even build the full team, which is why you only see Red Wolf and Hawkeye as the only members of Occupy Avengers. It was actually kind of fun to see teams that I either didn't give a chance to or completely abandoned Occupy Avengers, USA Avengers. I was like, Hey, I remember these guys. Because I was worried that the way USA Avengers would have ended is that they just stripped Sunspot, Sunfire, remember his name?
That's Sunspot. Sunspot of his like rank and title and prominence. But now he's there doing his thing, leading the team. Still the head of aim.
Still the head of aim, taking point. I was like, that's cool. Like, it was interesting because just to skip ahead a little bit, not about plot wise, but more about tone and what this book means. It was nice to see, it was nice to see this distillation of everything that Marvel, I think has been trying to do versus what they wanted to do and making it successful and effective.
Definitely. We saw not one but two gay romances in this issue. Absolutely, we sure did. But I think that those who are decrying the diversity and the multiculturalism and all of this could say that it wasn't beaten over the head with it.
It had a point. These moments were plot and character driven. And there's something for everybody in this book. I'm sure that people who decry that sort of thing too would also decry, I don't know, like interracial relationships too.
If they saw like a Blue Cage and Jessica Jones showed up, they'd be very mad at that as well. I don't know. The Jess Jones, the Blue Cage thing came up, not that it came up, but it's more like it evolved before a lot of the public outcry and so as such. I think it was Grandfather Day, honestly.
Well, I'm saying hateful people are hateful people that's either here or there. I think, oh crap, you know what? Again, I'm connecting it to another book, but there was a character in the book that I'm going to be doing on back issues in about two weeks. That says basically the same thing.
And it's during an event kind of like this. Oh, nice. That's cool. But a lot of cool stuff.
But you get high flying super heroics, you get character work, you get some, you get to boil down the Avengers into one unified front. Isn't it? That I don't think everyone's going to walk away from? No, I don't think so either.
And as a result, that'll work out great because they'll be able to clean house and make like, I don't want to say a pure Avengers team, but like, that's what you do when you boil away. When you have a crucible, then you burn away all the relevancy until you get this pure thing. The Avengers are going to be like the strongest, most unified, hodgepodge, all these ideas, I think, by the end of it. It's to crystallize the team.
The team needs to be crystallized. I agree. Just get rid of all of that. Get rid of all the fluff and all the fat.
All the filler. And boil it down to a team of seven people who are really representative of the team, the legacy, and the times that they live in. That's what it should be. And I wonder if they're going to go, you know, what is it, the original AAA characters, because it's funny, they take quite a few of them off the table early on in this story.
They take Cap and Spider-Man and a few other people. They're still here. They're going to be off here to the side for a little bit. I don't know what the, okay, so basically the Avengers do their part.
They try to save everybody. They can't save everybody. We see that one honorary member of the Avengers is on Death's door. Spoiler territory.
If you don't want to know who it is, we won't talk about it for more than a minute or so. So mute the episode or put us away for a minute, but we'll give you a countdown of three, two, one. So Jarvis is crushed by debris. Save somebody.
I'll like Captain Stacy. Assume dead. Well, no, I believe that they say he's like, he's not expected to survive. So what's it called?
Nadia Pym and Beast. Rush off to do what they can to save Jarvis, which is kind of cool. Yes. Because you get a new Avenger, like the newest of new characters and one of like a classic Avenger.
Oh, yeah. And Avenger too that needs a little work as well too, who's kind of been dragged through the mud recently in recent X-Men stories. It's nice to see Beast being a good guy trying to help people out again, unlike the weird, morally compromised Beast Bendis capturing a push. Yeah, like Dick Beast has been kind of put through the gamut and he has only suffered indignities and character assassination through his own X-Men book.
And it would be kind of cool to see him kind of gain prevalence and find himself again in a Avengers series because then you could actually transition him back over and be like, you know what? Beast is one of the, like, actually, well, Scarlet Witch Quicks over, but like Beast is one of the first like public out there mutants, like those Avengers. Before I forget Will I Am Golden in Super Chat? Is Speedball in the book?
No. Not yet anyway. It's going to be a long series, so he could show up. It's true.
He could show up. You never know. I feel like you're going to see everybody. So that character is at Death's Door, a couple of Avengers go to see what they can do about him.
And then as you said, some of the Triple 8 title Avenger characters turn blue, freeze, and I don't know, are collected like action figures and put in the Avengers later on. Nice. I'd love to have that, Jon. Now you got to go through and categorize them like you categorize your long books.
Exactly. We got Steve. We got Pete. All right.
They're all here. Yeah. But I think that's cool because I speculation time. I feel like, number one, we're not just putting them away.
Like maybe they're going to be in like the vanishing point or their mindscape or something, but they're some, the major players are all frozen. And they're probably going to be on their own adventure, but the main thing of Earth being stolen and every, and, yeah, well, Earth being stolen who did it while all that crap is going to be resolved by these lesser Avengers. And I hate these, that's right, because these Avengers have been Avengers forever, like not forever, but for the least the last few years. Yeah.
But they're not the USA Avengers, you know, need idea wasn't the wasn't doing major numbers. No, it's a niche team. But hey, if you like niche teams, pretty solid. Yeah.
And if you like the underdog, I think that the idea of seeing living lightning or whatever in the first page and then bringing him back at the end of this book is these writers way of saying like get used to seeing some like forgotten Avengers. It really works for the Marvel Universe is basically every Marvel character you can think of has been an Avenger at some point or part of some manner of a venture team. So to have a whole series, especially a long series that's going to be as long as this is, they could very easily pay homage to everyone who's ever been an Avenger. It's true.
And maybe in a more like character respectful way than that time in Avengers assembled when the Avengers are fucked and then all the Avengers show up on the lawn and then it's more like, oh, that's a cool double page slash, but who cares because they're not doing anything. In this case, no, I think you're going to see like everybody's favorite Avengers going to have their time to shine. Absolutely. And I think that the forgotten Avengers angle is definitely represented in the debut of Boyer.
Boy of Boyer. Boyer. Boyer. Boyer.
I watch things creepily. And of course, Boyer will be complimented by the orb who is a watcher as well and he'll need to see all that's going on. No, Voyager shows up and I got to make a Star Trek joke, but I don't know near enough Star Trek to joke about it. Well, we know that despite Voyager's obvious inadequacy, she will still be around for at least seven seasons.
I don't know. Here's the thing. Voyager new character. I had on Twitter people asking me like, who the hell is Voyager?
Did I miss something? No, you didn't. They're censoring this. They're so and she even has the same basic haircut and color scene as the century.
Yeah. And even through the bit where she stands in front of like the old Avengers Manchin statue, which I love their working in Avengers Manchin again and she's standing there like, hey, I was always here. See, I'm in the statue that was that you've seen a million times, but not me in it a million times. Yeah.
I like the idea of being like, Hey, here's a new character and you forgot she exists. I don't know. I always like that idea more than its execution. I think the only one that's ever been successful was Century.
Yeah. It's funny. It's a very DC hyper time idea where it's like, Oh, I forgot this Golden Age character existed until right now. And now I remember everything.
Yeah, the fact that everybody remembers her right now is also like suspect, but hey, absolutely. These are all talented writers. This is not like some hack job. I think that they'll explain it properly in a way that's in frustrating.
I mean, that's clearly going to be the marching order for this series. It's funny that she seems to be a cosmic character who came from space at a time when the earth itself is stolen and taken somewhere. Yeah. She honestly has shades of like Adam Warlock and like, yeah, so who knows?
But I'm excited. I think it's going to be cool. And I'm willing to give Voyager the benefit of the doubt. I read a bunch of articles about her debut months ago, actually.
Me too. Yeah. And I remember being like, Okay, right on. Well, when that happens, we'll see what happens.
Yeah. I mean, even if she exists as just like a story device, which it wouldn't be the first time a Marvel event created a whole character just to be a storytelling device. Well, it's fair. Hopefully she'll become more than that.
I don't want her to become a Bendis plot device like no or that fucking kid from Civil War II. What was his name again? I don't recall and I will never will. And we never will because Ben just saying work in there anymore so no one's gonna work in back in.
I mean, I actually reacted kind of like I thought I heard like a yell or something and I think it's the neighbors. But I was like, what? Yeah, I thought I heard that. You did.
Okay, good. I thought I heard that too. And I'm like, is this my end? Am I fucking off?
Do I need to close more windows? The audience is reminders. It's Ulysses. Ulysses.
Here's a big fat. Thanks for being in the Marvel universe for me to you. Nathan Berg the Super Chat. Just helping us out.
Thank you very much. My friend. But yeah, screw Ulysses. I actually am more interested in Voyager than Ulysses.
Me too. And we'll see what happens. Yeah. I mean, we will see it'll happen again.
This Avengers knows surrender promising a lot of stuff promising all your teams promising, you know, to see the end of the day. And also the promising the return of the Hulk. They've already kind of spoiled that on the cover for some future ones. Yes.
Here's so you probably know a little bit more about this than I do. And I'd like to hear your opinion. What is the future for Avengers? No surrender.
It sets up a lot of mystery. Who's Voyager? Who stole the earth? What's with the red sky?
Yeah, the red skies. What's with the blue suspended animation stuff? Why are they only the main characters of the Marvel universe? And what are these lesser Avengers going to do about it?
And by the way, I don't mean that in like a screw these Avengers. I don't want to read their book. It's more like technically speaking. These guys are going to be more than the most interesting things.
I mean, I think it's like a dream. And also the promising the return of the Hulk. They've already kind of spoiled that on the cover for some future ones. Yes.
Here's so you probably know a little bit more about this than I do. And I'd like to hear your opinion. What is the future for Avengers? No surrender.
It sets up a lot of mystery. Who's Voyager? Who stole the earth? What's with the red Scott or the red skies?
What's with the blue suspended animation stuff? Why are they only the main characters of the Marvel universe? Yeah. And what are these lesser Avengers going to do about it?
And by the way, I don't mean that in like a screw these Avengers. I don't want to read their book. It's more like technically speaking. These guys don't have as much prominence as like be a Margaret Spider-Man or what we mean double A as opposed to triple A.
There's nothing wrong with being double A. Hey, it's true. So I like to think I'm a double A comic book YouTuber. And I mean my stats would say yes, that's true.
Yeah, we're in good company. So the there are a lot of mysteries abound. So how many parts are supposed to be? It's ultimately at the end of the day.
I don't recall like I know I joked around about it being like six like over a thousand. But I think it's only supposed to be like it. Yeah, it's a weekly series. It's supposed to take us to a big landmark number.
And if it's supposed to take us to 700 or 800. I would assume 700, which means that it's going to be 25 issues. Okay. That would be really depressing.
But but it's weekly. So we'll get one every week. So that'll only be so less than half a year. Okay, so half a year, which is pretty standard for the guys at DC.
They always love their year long weekly series. Yeah. Yeah. Marvel doesn't do it as much.
They did it with Wolverines and did they do it with another one. I know they did. I just don't recall which one. Neither do I.
It's not really their racket, but they're trying it out here. Yeah. But that said, so Avengers no surrender is a weekly series. It's going to be going.
It's going to be a big. Yeah. It's going to be a big. Yeah.
Yeah. It's going to be a big. Yeah. It's going to be a big thing when it's over.
I'm happy to say that I don't know if there's going to be a lot of tie ins. I think it's just this main book. Oh, I don't think there will be, which is so great. I can get into a series that goes on forever as long as it's one book.
Yep. I expected to read. That works great for me. Great.
But a lot of mysteries. What else are they teasing for the future of Avengers no surrender besides the fact that I think Hulk's coming back? I think that's the biggest one. I think they've been pretty tight lit so far unless I miss something.
The Hulk thing is the only thing they've really let slip. Yeah. The fact that they are doing so many deep dives already in the first issue suggests to me that the enemy of the or that they're going to be dealing with is probably something that they're going to be dealing with. I think they're going to be dealing with.
Yeah. I think that's the biggest one. I think they've been pretty tight with someone from the past of the Avengers. Oh, yeah.
That's always the way this goes. I mean, could they go really old school? Well, and the villain is actually Loki because they fought Loki in the first Avengers. I think that they might get a little I don't think they're going to do Loki.
Although since Loki will have prominent in the Infinity War movie, anything's possible. And apparently quite prominent in that next affinity cosmic event that they're doing next. That's right. Because he's a Sorcerer Supreme and he's been fucking around with the stones.
Yeah. Yeah. The cosmic event. I don't know.
I'm less excited about that I am at this even though this is a cosmic event as well in its own way. Well, I mean, we're earthbound now, but that could easily change. That's the missing thing. I think that's the missing thing.
I think that's the missing thing. I think that's the missing thing. I think that's the missing thing. I think that's the missing thing.
I think that's true. Where are we even in the Marvel cosmology they joke? Maybe we're in the microverse. Maybe we're in the Annihilist world.
Who knows? Yeah, it's true. I know that what's it called? Since Mark way it's writing it, I'd be worried that Kang might be involved.
We've had enough Kang and we've had enough high evolutionary. I know you haven't been reading the Champions Avengers crossover, which was the last story before we got to here. And it's like, OK, you've exhausted high evolutionary now. I don't want to see him again.
Yeah, I'm so sick of high evolutionary just because they use him to retcon Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, which they'll have to re-retcon now. Hey, maybe that's something they can do in no surrender because Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch clearly seem to be a very prominent character. And that would be a good time to do it. I completely agree with you.
I would love it if this was if no surrender was just house cleaning, Marvel house cleaning, where they're just like at 25 issues one a week. It seems like they could really do that. Kill this group. Kill this person.
Bring this person back. Change this person to this person. Like do a whole bunch of cleaning house and people will appreciate this event. It could be like the Children's Crusade, which picked a lot of things and wound up being a really bad ass event.
I know that somebody suggested the Grandmaster. I went to the board for Grandmaster. It feels very Grandmaster-ish. I've stolen your planet.
I'm going to take you now fight for my amusement. I took your most Chase action figures. I'm going to take you now. I'm going to take you now.
I'm going to take you now. I'm going to take you now. I'm going to take you now. I'm going to take you now.
I think I'm going to come out here and put them on a shelf and let them do something. I'm down. It was Grandmaster. And it's like a big cosmic game.
I think that's exactly what everybody wants. Yeah. Somebody asked about No Surrenders, Price Tag. I think it's $5 an issue.
But I felt like I got enough issue. It wasn't like buying up Bendix comic where it's like I spent $6 dollars and 18 patients. It's true. Another thing to that when I eventually review this book I feel weird because I covered the special free preview that they had a couple weeks ago.
I think that's free and you'd pick that one up and basically it's a good vertical slice of What The Story is going to be if you're interested in it. over in that free thing that I think you'll hold. No, you're not. Yeah, I agree.
So I'm excited about, like for the first time in a long time, I'm actually excited about a Marvel event. Long time, it's been what? Two, three years. Secret Wars was the last one that I was like, holy shit, this is awesome.
Yeah. I don't think this is Secret Wars in any way. No. Because it's very different from Secret Wars and as much as Hickman clearly was building towards it.
There was a lot of buildup towards it. There was a lot of setup. There was a lot of hype for it. There was no uphill battle for Marvel.
Like Marvel fans weren't like impressed me, Hickman. It was more like, Hickman, just give me what I want. This is amazing. And like after getting strung along for as many years as we did like, now I'm building up to it.
You'll see. You'll see. Yeah, exactly. Avengers No Surrender has this feeling of like, it's got a lot to prove.
It's got a lot of boxes to check. But they came out swinging and I give them credit for that. It's true. The Razor Vids and Super Chats is congratulations.
On a great year of content. Well, thank you very much, Razor Vids. We appreciate it. Thank you very much for spending a year with us.
Yes, we hope to keep this going. Exactly. But yeah, Secret Wars is still great. I feel like No Surrender is in the same category where it's like, I'm kind of excited about what's happening.
And I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt despite the laundry list of complaints that I lobed it Marvel not freaking a week ago. Just recently and put to video form. It's true, literally two days ago. But yeah, it does have an uphill battle.
And I hope that it delivers. Absolutely. The question is, how long ago did you first hear about No Surrender? Because I want to know, I want to see if we can pinpoint when it was created and wonder what circumstances they created this idea.
I heard it not long after the, oh, we're not going to do any big events anymore. Oh, but we're doing a weekly Avengers series. I'm like, OK, that's not an event. But you're pushing it.
You're pushing it. Yeah, no, no, no. The sky is red. The main Avengers are kidnapped.
And the Earth is in a different galaxy. It's an event. It's by any other name. Yeah.
But if it's one book, consistently, I'm in. Yeah. I wonder. Here's another thing.
Because here's another weird thing Marvel's been doing. Will Venom factor into this story at all? Because it seems like Venom is getting crossover is all over the place. Apparently, Venom is very popular these days at Marvel.
Marvel is really excited about Venom in a way that I haven't seen since the formation of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Because it used to be before the MCU, before Marvel owned their own freaking stuff. They still would want to bandwagon onto big studio movie productions. Which is weird.
They would do that with X-Men too. But it's like, guys, aren't you fighting with the X-Men? Yeah, exactly. If maybe self-restreated, like, when they would change characters or aspects of a character to suit the movie change.
And it's just like, come on, guys. At this point, you can't possibly be trying to push Venom because Sony's making a Venom movie. Are you? I think in their heart of hearts Marvel loves Venom.
And they know that they can sell books by slapping him on the cover. And now they have a good reason to do it. No, no, no, it's in preparation for the movie. I don't know.
Venom first didn't perform. Didn't it? No. I assumed it would have just succeeded by the fact that it had multiple Venoms in it.
What they should have done was make them all holographic covers. How did it go? I really helped out sales. I have a trading card inside.
Right? A trading card right in the middle that ruins the value of the comic when you rip it out. That'd be great. Maybe a gatefold cover or a die cut so that you can see the other cover behind the other cover.
Oh, that's what I like. That's any really dug whatever the hell that Venom event was. Venom first? Venom first?
Venom first? Yeah, she was the only one who told me about it. And she sold it pretty hard. And that's the thing.
OK, so when I finished reading this issue, I had real flashbacks to monsters unleashed. An event onto itself that featured all of the Marvel Universe and had them dealing with an external threat from beyond the stars that causes major collateral damage that forces the heroes to all look like heroes, team up, work together, put aside all their personal differences, and just save the day. And it felt good. I mean, it's ultimately, while I don't care about Kaiju's and monsters and humans and all that crap, I like them, but I don't like them to the nth degree.
No. Objectively speaking, Monster Unleashed is a fun, cool idea that should have tickled everybody's funny bone who was sick of everything that was happening at Marvel. But it came out at the worst possible time in between Secret Empire and whatever DC was doing. It's just like, I can't have another one.
But I think that everything that didn't work for people with Monster Unleashed, no surrender is doing. It certainly feels that way. Yeah, it's doing all the things you like, but it also has no humans in it, no monsters. Yeah.
Not yet anyway. Again, 25 issues over the rest of the year. Everyone could get a focus issue at some point. Is there still a Terrigen Cloud?
I've stopped reading in Hugh. I know they went back to space, and Al Ewing went full cosmic with it. I think they're looking for the element at the heart of the Terrigen Mist. I think that's where they are currently.
Yes, they destroyed the Cloud on Earth. That was X-Men versus you. No, no, they created it because there were two Clouds. Yes, but then Cyclops went into one, and that's what killed him.
Oh, yeah. OK. But then they lied about it. Then Emma Frost engineered.
I was hated. Samya, OK. Yeah, an engineer wore between the X-Men and the Inhumans. And then Medusa was forced to destroy the Cloud, because it's just like, all right, all right, I see what's going on here.
Do you hear the thing? Like, X-Men versus Inhumans, was it unnecessary? Absolutely. Did Charles Souls write the fuck out of it?
Yes, he did. He tried. He tried so hard. Charles Souls, a talented guy, it sucks that he got that job.
He really did. He really was trying that poor guy. And Fort Cullen Bunky was getting these other things, where it's like, yeah, he got monsters unleashed. He got Venom and all these other Venom stuff.
Venom verse, and it's sequel, Venomized. Yeah, great. But yeah, I think that if nothing else, no surrender might put the Inhumans back in the box, or under a dome. I think they're already that way.
They're out in space now. They haven't even been on Earth. Good. Stay there.
Although, one hilarious thing, in the new issue of Black Bolt, Captain America actually came to Black Bolt and apologized to him for all the atrocities committed against the Inhumans in his name by Hydra in Secret Empire. And I'm like, why is this not in the main Captain America book? Why is the main Captain America book? Try to pretend like Secret Empire didn't happen.
I think we all know why the main Captain America book is pretending that book didn't happen. I mean, we know why. But it's annoying to me as the one guy who liked Nick Spencer's run in like Secret Empire. I would have liked to have seen some growth from the character.
Not just la, la, la, la, la, la. No, it's true. That's that man. Even Deadpool is talking about an interesting way.
Do you know what happened at the end of the last issue of Deadpool? The last one, no. So, OK, so Deadpool, he's betrayed all his brands. He's a pariah because he was a turncoat and worked for the Hydra as everything.
He gets a call from Bob, agent of Hydra, and says, look, man, I know you're in a bad place right now. But the remnants of Hydra, they're planning to break evil Steve out of prison. You could kill him. And in doing so, probably, you could get revenge on the man who ruined your life.
And you could probably wipe the slate clean for yourself if you did this. Right, right. No, I heard about that. That's awesome.
I'm totally out for that. The freaking Deadpool book is doing more with the ball. Find by me, fix it. Like, you know what?
Kill Steve old. You make it Deadpool. You can't do better with a more popular character. And also, too, Deadpool had an amazing secret empire tie.
And his was probably the most emotional and effective next to Sam, so it only makes sense that he's the one to pull the trigger because he can do it and get away with it. Question since the greater Marvel universe at large is like so totally unaware of anything that's happening in Deadpool anyway. I know, right? He's in his own little universe.
Whenever people ask, it's like, well, Deadpool did it. Yeah. Oh, Ryan Compton asks, if this is separate from the main universe, should Marvel only do events outside the main universe? I don't know, but it's not separate from the main universe.
This is the main Marvel universe. It's happening. It's just a major tie in everything, which is the case. But to follow up with your second question, should Marvel only do events outside the main universe?
No, I think that as long as there's something strong and Marvel does right by the story and publishes it well and makes it look as long as it looks good, it reads good, and it is competently printed, I'm in. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And this one looked really good, too. And it looked really good.
That's really good. That's really good. That's really solid, too. And it was consistent and cool.
I loved the big team shot of everyone together at the mansion. It's like, oh, it's like a Where's Waldo book. Find your favorite, Double A Avenger. It was at the end of the day, it felt really great to see Avengers at Avengers Mansion.
It's really, really good to see them return to that, because I don't even remember what the hell the problem was with the mansion. I remember Luke bought it, and then they lost it. It was just a mess. Yeah, it's a whole thing.
No. It's nice to see things getting back to its roots. In a way, it feels less like a retcon and a hand wavy. Oh, you didn't like it, so we'll just roll back the curtain or the doll back the clock.
No, it's just cool. Just do this. So yeah, although interestingly enough, no fantastic four in this book yet. No, not yet.
Whether it could be time, heck, I quite enjoyed that Marvel 2-in-1 they did. I like it even more now with the deal coming through, because it's like, oh, I guess we know how this story's ended, huh? Agreed. Agreed.
No, I love the 2-in-1. I think it's a great first century. It's funny, this being kind of like, it's almost like an apology tour. A little bit.
A little bit. And if it is, it'd be cool if, since they're in the deepest regions of space and human torture which feature prominently in the issue, maybe we will see the fantastic four come back in the series. I know that at the very least, with respect to all the apologies and stuff, another theory that I would throw out there, since we're dealing with Avengers in a sort of Avengers-centric book, maybe the enemy is Pimtron. Ooh, that's good, because they've been having Pimtron waving the wings for a while, and he's just such a well put together villain, and he represents all the sins of the Avengers and everything they've done wrong.
He basically said in Secret Empire, yeah, once you defeat Evil Steve, I'm coming for your next. Exactly, you're going to see me show up in some prominent way, and he has a grudge against the Avengers. Against everybody. That'd be really cool to see him being like, this is part one of my big master plan to destroy the Avengers.