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Hello, welcome to the L-s' exchange. I'm Joel. Today, it's all Joel. I had no time today, I was all over the place preparing for my journey out to Baltimore, Maryland, for the Baltimore Comic-Con this weekend.
And when I say weekend, I mean Friday and Saturday. If you were there Sunday, I won't see you because I'll be hugging back by Saturday night. So sorry about that, man. But hey, listen, if you want to bump into me, you can go to Baltimore Comic-Con and I'll be there both Friday and Saturday.
Saturday, I'll probably leave around for free. So if you're going to plan on getting the Baltimore Comic-Con Saturday late, don't if you don't want to jump in and say, hey, anyway, yeah, so we're going to get into this anyway because I've been dealing with the trip and my cat is not feeling well. Joel kind of like take the point on this one and I'm glad because I didn't have to do a lot of prep for this one. It's one of those Google fashion verses.
Do you know what number this is? I didn't remember which how many Emmy verses we've done so far. This is the third. I called this versus round three and because we talked about it on the anniversary show about growing the concept, instead of comic characters, I tried to focus more on cartoon and action movies, still very much in the nerd genre and in the nerd head space, but you know, offering up some different kinds of match-ups here.
Nice. Well, I'm ready to get into it. Let's get ready to rumble. All right.
Now it's funny. I had about 10 of these ready to go and then Sal said before the show started, he got me up to speed and said, Joel, make these good or else people will lose interest. I'm like, oh, fuck, oh, fuck. That's true.
I guess I really need to think about this. So I added about 10 more. So even if we don't do all of these, there's still going to be plenty to pick from. Awesome.
All right. So here's one to start off. It's probably something we should devote a whole episode to at some point, but Samurai Jack finished his newest season just recently. Love the hell out of Jack.
He's a great combat and you can put him up against just about anybody. Yes, it's true. I thought it would be fun and thematic to set him up against the Shredder. The Shredder?
Which Shredder are you going to pin him against? The 2000 Turtles Shredder, the 84 cartoon or 87 cartoon Shredder or comic book Shredder or movie Shredder? This is why I'm glad you're here, Sal, because obviously you're much more of an expert on it. Well, it's funny.
To research this, I actually sat down and tried to watch something from each of the Turtles thing to try and think of this. But in your estimation, who is the strongest version of the Shredder that we can put up against you? So let's even table Jack for a second. Let's have a Shredder battle royale.
Who is the strongest of all the multiversal versions of the Shredder? Spoilers, comic book Shredder dies in his first appearance. Yeah, he does. 87 cartoon Shredder is a clown.
Bumbling. Just straight up clown. Voice by Uncle Phil from Fresh Prince of Valerin. And I have a soft spot for that one, but dude can't see the force for the trees.
He's a little. In fact, if you ever want to see something kind of remarkable in Spectacular, watch, it was in the 2000s. There was a movie where they picked the 1987 cartoon Turtles and they met 2000 Turtles. And the 2000 Turtles Shredder is pretty hardcore.
As it stands with most versions of the superheroes, the version of the Shredder I have to go with is comic book IDW Shredder. That's the one everyone seems to like. IDW Shredder is the one who actually is effective and doesn't die all the time. Right.
And like people are saying the TMNT one from the 2000s, there was like five Shredders in that show too because there was the OG ancient samurai guy. There was the King Shredder who lived inside and then there was like cyber Shredder and a bunch of other ones. That show went through many Shredders. No, it's true.
The movie Shredder is a baller, but the problem is he falls off roofs. He falls off the roof gets crushed by a garbage press and then when he actually does manage to become super Shredder, he literally crushes his own body where the fucking gear totally sucks. So I'm going to go with IDW Shredder. Let's go with that because he's actually a force to be reckoned with.
Okay. So you know, we have Jack, of course, master of multiple disciplines. The dude basically had a Batman childhood where he traveled all around the world learning from all the great masters of his day and then continued to learn from all the great masters of the future, learning disciplines that we never even would have thought possible because you know, there's that whole big arc long there in the newest final season where he loses his sword and clearly master's guns, master's technology, master's all this other stuff as well. Yeah, it's true.
It's Jack. No question. Jack wins every time. I think because he is fueled by like a righteousness that cannot be like equaled.
He is almost Superman in a way. He is almost Superman in that. Yeah, like he is undeterred. He is a force to be reckoned with.
He is like eternal and an incorruptible. The shredder and every incarnation loses eventually. And I mean, if Shredder can't beat five ninjas, how's he going to beat one samurai? I think I don't think that Shredder could beat any one of the turtles and I think that Jack and I think Jack could probably beat all of the turtles.
So now that's a match in and of itself as well. Yeah, the turtles would be a fight I'd want to say. And while some of them I argue that that Jack doesn't cross the line, I submit the recent season. Yeah, dude kills.
Yeah, a couple of people with his back against the wall. He will do it. Shredder is relentless in his own right, which is kind of a plus for him. That will only make Jack fight harder.
And I mean, I guess he got to figure two. Even Shredder at his very best is basically in line with everything that Jack fights all the time. Oh, your technology and old world medieval stuff put together. Yeah, I got your number.
I do this a lot. Yeah. Now if Shredder were to merge with a coup, that'd be a different story. Oh, shit.
You want to see. That's a fucking crossover right there. So yeah. All right.
All right. I am fine with that. I am perfectly all right with that one. Moving to some more live action movie stuff here.
I think this is only fitting because Kingsman comes out this week. James Bond, the original ultra movie Super Spy versus Indiana Jones. Oh my God. Bond versus Jones is a classic argument.
I would say that Jones won when he was created. Jones beat Bond when he was created. Because if you're not familiar with the story of the origin of Indiana Jones, Spielberg and Lucas were chatting one day. And Spielberg said, I think the time has come in my career where I want to do a James Bond movie.
First of all, can you imagine the reality where Spielberg actually made a James Bond movie, but I digress that's a tangent of itself. That's an ultra fun universe. But Lucas goes to Spielberg and he says, Steve, I got something better than Bond. His name's Indiana Smith and he is going to kill us.
And sure enough, they look at this. They hash out this treatment, which by the way, if you've ever looked into, is a really really spectacular conversation because you'd assume because George Lucas created two of the best and worst religions of all time. Sure did. He would probably have been the reason why Indiana Jones has some silly or dumb elements to it.
He's kind of like the culprit for why King of the Crystal Skull is such a garbage fire. Oh boy. So, I think that's the exception. You can see the actual back and forth in real time.
It's an actual transcription of the discussions where Spielberg wanted to make it really kind of dopey and silly, but Lucas was like, no, it's got to be cool. It's got to be real. And so I really loved that kind of dichotomy. But that's as far as the origin of Indiana Jones's concern.
I have another fight kind of similar to that where it's like, well, realistically in real life, this guy won, but to compare the characters. I mean, I guess with James Bond too, you'd fall into a shredder issue as well. It's like, there's like a dozen James Bond, which version are we setting up against Indiana Jones because there's only been one like Connery Bond would fight different than Daniel Craig Bond. Yeah, we have more cooler gadgets to make use of.
He's got to put him to the gamut. It's like, all right, indie versus George Lam, it's the last thing to be Bond. Okay, indie wins. Okay, hang on.
Indie versus Roger Moore Bond. I say indie wins. I don't like Roger Moore Bond. So that move.
Okay, we both agree. He's love Roger Moore. Don't like his bond. No, indie versus Tim Dalton Bond.
That's a fight I'd like to see. I have a song for the Tim Dalton Bond, especially if you've ever seen the living day like, is the living day lights? I think it is. No, it's just a kill.
You should see that's the one. Yes. Yeah. That one does not fuck around.
When Felix is when it's thought dead, he immediately goes hardcore. That's right. He's the revenge bond. That's right.
He's the revenge bond. And so that one has no time for bullshit. And indie doesn't have patience or bullshit, but he's the only guy who literally shoots the sword guy. I think that says so much about him.
Yeah. But I think that the deeper you go with Bond's Connery Dalton and even Craig, mostly because Craig is kind of like, is Jason Bourne, but in another suit? Because I hate Jason Bourne. I hate those kinds of spy movies.
I really don't care for those like, Shaky Cam. I'm a mindless weapon that can be triggered. I never got into the Bourne's for all those reasons. I never got into 24, either for the same reason.
No, exactly. I'm not a big 24 fan. I'm not a big Bourne fan. So I've such making James Bond more like Jason Bourne is missing the point of James Bond.
It robs him of a lot of his character. And even when they try and work like the classic stuff and like, oh, here's Blofeld and here's Specter, but like a really weird, wrong headed version of those things. Well, also like, hey, here's some gadgets. And it's like, he doesn't need them.
No, because he just punches people a lot. We all have gadgets. It doesn't work. In his day and age, it's true.
It's like, I have a map. It's the most of phones or like a hollow phone or something. But I think that because of the OP nature of James Bond never loses, he always wins and he always finds a way out. And he always looks good doing it.
And he's a superstar. Indy is fallible and human and makes mistakes. It's beat up a lot. He gets punched every time.
Yeah, he does. And he's a broiler. He's not a hand-to-hand combat. And even when he shoots people, he shoots a man with a sword with a revolver, whereas Blofeld of course has the PP7.
And he has like... It's just harder to deal with. does india get an edge to for having dealt with more paranormal shit in his time like does that make you tougher if you're able to like overcome fucking coli mon all this other things i think that i think that india like blindly kind of stumbles through those he's a fun character uh... he's more fun than bond which is kind of arguable actually itself if you're if you're doing on right you're having a blast watching him to his work indeed i think the other day bonds more professional and really when you look at down to it like india is like a mercenary you know the dude yeah who steals artifacts from cultures to sell to museums in the west he's a great robber yeah it's it's hard to deal with uh...
so i this is also kind of the ultimate battle of style to one representing a british uptightedness and the other one being the all three now let's go get america no serious they are both wonderful uh... exaggerations of their cultures and i love them both when they're done properly but i think that bond would ultimately get bond wouldn't waste any time i don't think you would want to waste time because bond wants to keep the quote on i got a given the bond just because of op nature bond is kind of an kind of a uh... a mary sue he's a bit of a god-moder it's like saying that and it was a bond that one of the world explodes but like a little bit yet in the in the things that make everyone love you know jones make him lose this fight and plus i mean your james bono always has like a long history of escaping the elaborate death trap and everything i think i can escape a man with a whip yeah exactly but got a cool fight though it would be a bit of a mission fight and my hope would be to see that battle if it was to the if it was like a you know celebrity death match or like a death kind of situation or death battle i do not want to see that but i do want to see uh... like a kind of typical crossover where they both show how awesome they are than a team of the fight with a surprise that has been a comic thing at some point because there has been a ton of james bond comic books and there have been a few really disappointing in jones com i think that was a dark horse who has who has the rights to the into the bond comic so you know dark or that had the indy license i see they lost it when i it's either dark or so boom yeah i think it's boom that has been a lot who's got a lot of shit when expect them to have yes and that being said man uh...
i bet marvell doesn't even know they have the indy rights all i think that they're like what's what what's in the records guys what's in the fall of shit we have this kind of sucks because i would love to see some like really good indiana jones comix every time i pick up a new jones comix from the old like dark or so they're beautiful covers that depict movies you're never going i want those there are a few read these but back when i was a mad max movie was coming up they had like a series of magma x comics like five of them telling like different stories and i'm like why haven't they been making magma x comics forever this world is so great this character is so perfect to put in any situation why don't they make more of these by the way dynamite has the bond franchise there you go that explains why you don't see it very often why you cross over yeah that makes a lot of sense uh... here's a fun one in the nerdier realm here optimist prime transformers everybody loves them versus a similarly beloved robot of the iron giant okay again i think we need to preface it what version of optimist prime is this because there's like a dozen i think that we all don't want to see the movie one unless we want to see course not because that guy sucks sure does is like of maniac yet is he's a savage hero like well good my hero didn't didn't he turn evil in the last one was not like a big thing for like office i remember they corrupted him and like said it against his i didn't see it and i never did it same both both of these stupid bad guy named like i'm negamist prime or something i don't know uh... i will say that we got to go with uh... with the with the with the cartoon with g one area area that's the one that was trying to approximate what i do absolutely so yeah i i i uh...
i think the iron giant has more fire power you when he's mad he certainly does he got to get him to that point my question to who's who's actually taller and bigger for scale is that the iron giant or optimist prime is often his prime size seems to go up and down with interpretation yeah i mean yeah i think that i think that iron giant has a slight edge on uh... on what's his name on on this prime little bit like he's a world ending machine exactly he's literally designed to destroy earths uh... the question i think is what what version of the iron giant is he basically fighting is he fighting one of his like brothers fighting pre hogarth iron giant mmm you know you know in a pocket a post-reassembly iron that's right like hogarth is in his world kind of get the kind of version they would never fight he would want to learn from optimist prime and have a buddy if this was post hogarth and have two characters who both exemplify the qualities of leadership and absolutely that you want you know in a you know hero so that's a tough one i feel like it would end in a draw but i think if push came to shove or they're both mind controlled and forced to fight i think i'm not i think optimist prime has the maneuverability advantage to because he is a transformer because he can transform and zip around the iron giant is big and destructive but also a tank and bulky yeah that's true but um yeah and he is like an old school old world kind of robot yeah um you know much more like b-movie science fiction 30s character and the iron giant is very childlike where optimist prime is clearly more adult in his mindset who could think and plan and he definitely seemingly has the experience behind him yes but that does make the iron giant more of it i give him an edge because the iron giant is unpredictable that's true like he would not uh go for the usual strategy that might like benefit him he might just lash out without a lot and also too optimist prime seeing the child like nature of this iron giant might also be pulling his punches this is true so because he wouldn't want to hurt he would probably see him much like an auto bot yeah i think that up is prime would feel would feel pretty bad for him that'd be a cute story at the end they work it out like oh an iron giant now you're an honorary auto bot yeah yeah we'll just have to figure out what you turn into because you can't join if you can't turn into shit no you can't do no that's called a robot that's not a transformer you didn't transform in anything maybe they'll let you know stupid go-bots or something yeah leader one what are you up to nothing fuck them go-bots they came first you know so technically the transformers are the rip-offs oh man that's an episode right there earmarks that famous rip-offs or rip-offs that became more famous than the original oh yeah i know i've read a cut i was gonna list like that but uh we can do a ton just talking about street sharks and biker mice and all the things that ripped off tmnt oh that's a deep-caught or the vr troopers and the beetle boys and the power rangers and the uh oh god and the common rider dragon night yes i know common rider is the grandad you have all those shows but you can never make it in america from ever weird reason and yet lots of people love to watch it job i would say the common rider effect is a lot like the doctor who effect where it's like that's what arch nerds were able to latch onto and thanks to the internet can watch it in its original form right exactly but yeah so that's all right here's a fun one it's the cover of the episode so we might as well do it rick sanchez versus dr farnsworth from future alma rick rick every time the thing here's the same argument as bart versus cartman mmm bart is mischievous cartman is a monster he sure is far as worth is dangerous and unpredictable but is he is predictable in his inanity and unpredictability he's also a lot more frail than rick who we now know is a cyborg rick is a monster who would destroy him in an instant he wouldn't even think about the consequences of his actions before killing him if he was like oh i'm in a versus battle goodbye like oh so you're frail that's it like you're you're smart oh well if our brains were to be weighed against each other you know maybe that might be a way you have an edge on me but like if it's literally just you versus me that's the end of it like what's what's funny though is that this fight is actually possible because we now know that uh rick and morty crossed over with the simpsons and simpsons is in the same universe as futurama so all the fights we've mentioned this one is probably the most doable it's one of the most likely to you for you to have ever seen uh but yeah i i think that they would vote i think that rick would find far more far more far north's inventions just so stupid like there's no like i mean the joke in his that's the other problem is that far north is a comedy character he is a joke mad scientist you know like and his whole point his argument is that like the point of science is to do things and doesn't matter if they make sense or if they're like if they have a purpose the purpose is to right like the thing longer and uh the golden uh head thing that makes you see altered episodes uh pazuzu yeah pazuzu the fucking gargoyle character jamaq pazuzu i page away through college that's so weird but yeah uh it's it's i mean like unless you have a different opinion i mean it's got to be rick right i mean they always hint at darker undersides to far north like in the christmas episode he manages to build all sorts of like you know weapons and what not to keep robots santa at bay he always talks about like oh you know on a doomsday device and whatever but he ever actually does it no and that's the thing is that i'm gonna paraphrase jeff lobe from hushiness one where it's like i think deep down essentially he worked for us with a good person and deep down rick is not yeah that yeah wow that that does something up really good also as we've seen before despite being an old dude rick and move and rick and brawl and like he's actually probably gotten into more like fist fights this season yeah no oh my god well rick versus uh uh zeevm cold air zeevm cold air is character zeev something or other zeev thank you it's just just brutal rick will fight and rick will fight dirty on top of that yes well he'll fight to win yeah he's not afraid to hit you in the balls gou eyes do whatever it takes that's how i fight because i'm like i don't want to fight and i'll say make it very clear at the beginning i'm not interested i don't want to do this but then if i'm forced i'm i mean i'm in it to win it yeah i'm not here to like teach you a lesson or prove myself i just want to be i just want to go back to where i was when i said i don't want to do this so i need i so i'll just try to make it over as quickly as possible i'm a surgeon and this is my operating table yeah see that cut above your eye young man exactly i can imagine yeah rick's up in the chat with this rick being like oh okay that mr mr mr mr's kill that guy yeah that's true bender help me now now i'm good i actually want to hang out with this guy actually i think the in him would get along yeah we're both chaotic in our ways but think about that is they uh their interests always go back to their own like self-bender and rick are both selfish inherently yep so while they might like team up ultimately they will they will betray each other oh of course they will betray each other first chance they get yeah uh one another one yeah let's do it i mean we have our only three minutes damn man this shows for him flying by okay bring it back to action movies for a second oh hey we got a super jet hey ragnarok old furt uh rick wouldn't rick would win he's like sci-fi batman that doesn't even yeah he doesn't even make yeah he has no he batman needs prep time rick already did the prep like that's i think that because rick is oh like rick has been a genius forever so he did all the prep already he comes pre-prepared yeah and we all agree with it good call ragnarok thank you very much i would say probably the only other character who's even like close to him in style and tone and just like you know oh i already planned this in power would even be someone like the doctor like one of the older more mad sciencey like doctors from doctor who but even then like you said deep down the doctor is a good person deep down rick is not exactly rick could basically be the master more or less he could be like one of the regenerations of the fucking master i mean like rick more or something perfectly by just being like he's not a villain but he's more like a fucked up god yeah he's not a hero either yeah like that that's it like he's a fucked up god because like if you can make worlds and end them and at a whim he's a god yeah kapaldi might be a fair fight yeah for what i understand a lot of people drew the comparison from a kapaldi's doctor who was more like a cranky old man anyway yeah here's a fun one from the world of action movies john rambo versus john matrix of commando oh shit okay first of all edison says rick sawed the vindicators enough said i agree i did um rambo drunk too yeah uh rambo versus matrix from commando you're not from the commando by the way it's the most badass Arnold is even though it's not a dumbest of his movies like sure as predator like i would i would never pick matrix because he's he's so one-dimensional doesn't like do anything interesting he is but like i would take uh i would take dutch over him any day but that said that's the only one where Arnold at his prime takes over a small south american country straight up like and between the two of them like rambo barely survived nam and matrix took over a small south american country yeah also too like matrix probably kills more people in the finale of commando than rambo kills in the first two rambo movies put together i mean that's i mean here's the thing rambo is about like the body count it's actually about like this poor man but uh is rambo smarter though would he be able to get by on sheer guerrilla tactic because as we see he was able to fight a much better armed force just by leading them into the woods and freaking nonning them essentially no i think matrix would destroy him i mean matrix even has the line in the movie where it's like oh you're a green berry are you green burpees for breakfast and what's rambo let let off some steam bit it also too like john matrix is basically super human he flips cars he holds the dude from the warriors off a cliff with one arm he jumps out of planes he does he carries missile launchers um no he's he's unstoppable but matrix is as like inhumanly silly in his first and only movie it takes rambo like four movies to get there exactly to where matrix already is particularly because like at the end of the day what we're really talking about is we're talking about sly in his prime and oracle in his prime and at the end of the day for me it's always Arnold in terms of rock top just slimey the smarter movies and indeed he is an award-winning director so like he's got these make smarter movies let's just do a little more substance full movies in terms of like first blood and like the first rocky first okay you got rambo and you got rocky right those are the two right you got terminator you got predator you've got uh last action here but but he didn't direct those though that's true i would be interested to see a movie that Arnold directed yeah don't think he's capable that's not a thing is that i think like what's cologne rocky right he did he wrote and directed and that was like his first out in yeah dude has some poetry in him he does but Arnold is the but Arnold's a grandi-manate oh really oh yeah thank you charles oh yeah cologne man that's a good one predator cologne and that those are movies from any movie made by cologne that isn't called rocky for me my entire life i mean definitely in terms of filmography better i'm talking like in terms of creative output i mean obviously there's no content contest in terms of like who made the better more entertaining movies yes but that said yeah i got i got i got to give it to matrix because he can't die and it's the it's the bond versus any effect where it's like just regular folk like regular man versus superman there's no that's true matrix has a fucking bullet field around him where everyone can shoot at him but not a single goddamn thing hits in the whole movie exactly thank you for his your true lives well that's another good one it's a lot of good news although hey now that we're talking about who had the bigger stinker in their career though you got like stopper my mom will shoot and then he got like jingle all the way like who had the worst stinker i mean i think they all share the expendables as stinkers yeah the expenders are really bad yeah it's really about like what what offends you more what offends me more and i gotta say like Arnold's broken my heart more than some because he made terminator three and four and yeah and probably this new one that they're gonna be doing down with the new one that has jim camarind directly involved it has tim miller directing and sarah connor's back yeah the only people who actually seem to give a shit and make this one good i am in but uh stop my momma shoot is like stop my momma shoot is really bad like i think oscars are bad i think oscars are hilarious so like you know there's some silly yeah and judge dread awful but also like kind of accurate like kind of like really accurate like until it becomes garbage and also endlessly quotable in its way and you got kindergarten copies of course perfect it's a great move yes i also love okay you know bringing right there kindergarten copy of plus not kindergarten copy on silent hill too that's true you're right that's a shocking connection but it's a totally real i could not make that up if you want oh yeah if you want to weird silent hill movie connections uh the james sundarland's wife wears the same outfit that nick cage's wife wears in connor what it's really weird but that's a thing and the school in kindergarten cop is this exact same school and sound home so yeah it is rapier rapier brains around that everybody yeah i guess they just like that movie in there i guess or like through a japanese perspective it's like oh yes american standard you know this is america right here i seem through the eyes of schwartz and agaric kindergarten cop like no that's a specific north west town that has a lot of money in it but all right fine uh we did uh action heroes who are soldiers let's do let's do some pirates for a second here jack jack sparrow versus the dread pirate roberts that's a hard one because they're both marie sous yes i would argue jack fumbles his way through more shit like he's not actually good at stuff most of the time where dread pirate roberts genuinely does seem to be good at shit and know what he's talking about most of the time the dread pirate roberts we're going with westley as the dread pirate roberts westley is straight up marisue he cannot be defeated he knows everything that's the point that strategist he is he's unstoppable that said he does die hmm jack sparrow is straight up marisue in that we never even see him no she did death sever times like he loses in as much as you know he doesn't get to drink at that exact moment uh he did get eaten by the crack and at the end of the second one but he wanted to do that and he planned to do that and that was all part of a bigger longer conflict you know i i co-horstion that like retcon i feel like he was just planning i i like it better when he didn't and he's like fuck it let's go and i'm like yeah that's cool that that was my favorite part of that second one where it's like oh a hero just sacrificed another hero to save a third hero's life holy shit that doesn't happen much in movies and i guess like because he went to david jones locker or whatever he did die but there's never a moment where he loses no he isn't still talking and being the main character yeah um but yeah i i i think that's another retrospective we got to do the pirates movies and their drop in quality it was i i've not seen more than the three i'm like that's i still have everyone in theaters and i was like fuck you you trick me again i'm out the fourth one is garbage i have not seen the fifth one yet i know it's outer coming out soon and i keep meaning to see it because they're like oh they totally used the force awakens playbook only they didn't wait as long as star wars did in between yeah i gotta get the west like just because i like him more again i kind of agree with that too loved jack sparrow when it started but those movies made me hate him by the end he became the franchise's own poochy after a fact it's true i would never watch a pyrospy without him but that didn't mean i have to go see pyrospy's well whenever jack sparrow is not around all the other characters need to say where's jack sparrow why isn't he here they jad needs to be louder more in your face and have access to a time machine it's so funny um because it's so true jul is quoting both poochi from simpsons and the like studio notes about sliver from the real ghostbusters cartoon where it went from sliver being like a pet to being the main character to the point where they changed the name of the goddamn show yum anyway it's it's funny how that like that's an episode two we should earmark for later poochies we should do a whole show dedicated to the poochies of series poochies snarfs and slivers oh fucking put that on a shirt right there put that on a bumper sticker i will put that on my car as the beginning of a like thesis paper smoochie spoochie spoochie spoochie spoochie spoochie spoochie spoochie spoochie yeah i'll just turn to j for a second which you can make the argument did j and silent bop become poochies in their own series at a point they could poochies pretty much after dog month and by and after i mean during yeah i like j and bob and i love the movies but uh miss clear who was paying the bills there for a while i mean you know the movement i'm a huge view of you fan i've never wanted to see a j and bob movie until you got it and i really liked it by the way i laughed my ass off it's a funny movie i loved that movie but the stuff they say about internet culture is still fucking holds up pretty hard but i would rather see any movie in that universe about banky or holden or brandle or dante or elissa or trisha or like brodie you know maybe not t s but like any of the characters yeah j and bob are window dressing they are the watcher they they establish or in a shared universe they're not the main characters until they work and by the way like that's that's george lucasian esque foresight on kevin's mispart little bit because uh mirror max slash disney owns the clerk's characters like universal owns the maul rats characters like it's very marvel but kevin smith made sure to retain the rights to j and sine ball yeah i did what a genius who's the most marketable characters i know it's not like i'm gonna sell shirts with jon it also helps that i'm one of them to that i'm part of the package deal yeah exactly so anyway that's always good uh hey did you ever see that andy samberg movie hot rod no no i don't see any samberg movies that's that's a shame because that last one he did pop star was actually pretty solid said yeah it would have been more solid if it came out uh when it was supposed to because it's clear they shelved that for a couple years because there's a bunch of jokes in there about sealtim six getting Osama bin law and it's like wow these are these are out of fucking date that's hilarious how weird there's there's a fight in that movie that like under pains at different characters arguing about this one who would win in a fight a grilled cheese or a hot dog also is a hot dog a sandwich i've seen a lot of people argue this one online yes hot dog is a sandwich that's just that's fucking that's that's horsized duck and duck size horses shit from me on the ship but is the dress blue sal is a shade of gold i don't know fuck either do i i don't give a fuck i just don't feel give me my goddamn enchiladas that was a joke when oh it was grilled cheese versus a taco so i actually fucked that one up you're like actually wasn't even the thing i said so it wasn't even the thing i said jol's just fucking crazy although it's like i would be more in clinton again it's like is a taco a sandwich of course it isn't it's a taco hot dog a hot dog thing exactly at the end of the day the question is would the people who created it have been able to create it if they had known about the sandwich like or if they didn't know about the sandwich anyway like if they didn't know the sandwich existed would they still have the taco yes it's taco well i mean the origins of the hot dog where it was polish immigrants selling polar sausages at like early baseball games in like the 1920s and they put it on a caiser role so you wouldn't burn your hands yeah and sam i did see that special in food network i know anyway let's do this okay okay so onto a real fight here hey here's a horror movie themed one and this makes sense because one of these guys is getting a new movie soon Jason voorhees everyone's favorite hockey mask killer we were just talking about voorhees new jersey when we started versus the creeper who's getting a third one soon the creeper from what? jeeper screapers look at Jason fuck that stupid crappy character run out of file no i know right nope nope no but the creeper has air advantage though creeper is lame and stupid and was created by a pedophile no yeah it was the creeper is also like also has a lot of bullshit as far as naive more uh immortality you know you basically have to shoot him with a very particular harpoon through the chest and even then he's not really dead because he wakes up every couple years you know the creeper is a child a child at play who's like okay we're let's establish what my powers are before we start playing yeah and then halfway through playing me like oh wait no my powers are also this and that and also i can't be too no you didn't hit me i'm also i'm i'm she does make up a lot of bullshit rules screw him jason has strayed far from the beaten path i was all yeah he has but at the end of the day he has an audience and he also has a he has iconic status and he earned his spot the creeper has not no he really hasn't so i'm amazed they made a third one is the og guy directing i think he has to because i think he's the only one who actually gives a shit i think he i think he's coming back which is like get out of here yeah that's that's true you are more of a monster than the monster in your movie yeah no geeper screapers one was entertaining geeper screapers garbage yeah it was yeah i was anything that you know about the artist is like oh well by but even then like if they made jeepers creepers one and freya thirteenth around the same time and had access to the same amount of things to accomplish the things that they made to make the movie work i still say fried thirteenth wins the jason would well of course his voor keys slash jason would that's true it would take over immediately you also have pre and poses on bjason then you got jason axe and all the other stuff jason axe i suppose technically in the battle of jason versus freddy jason won that fight just carrying his head at the end of the movie oh no yeah he did kill freddy and like good because like i like freddy but it's time to stop it'll never stop sal those long as there's money to be made i like jack yerill haley's freddy i was i was really excited for like a new you know universe with good freddy and no he was working really hard in a movie that just had nothing for him no just just nothing at all god did you see they came out with a new uh texas chan saw movie just called leatherface and it didn't even go to fiers it went to like video on demand and shit i had heard that they were making it i didn't even know it was out holy it is came out this week they're like wow this is like sci-fi original movie levels of bad that's like uh when they made that hell racer movie because the studio is gonna lose their rights and they're like oh it's like you made it just like that sucks what's funny too is apparently they once again retconned the texas chan saw massacre timeline which has one of the most confusing retconned histories ever the other thing is with the texas chan saunas gher the movie is the seventies yes it is that first movie that is the seventies if you ever want to know what the seventies looked like you watch taxi driver yep you want to know how shitting new york was in 1975 oh it's a beautiful time capsule isn't it yeah and texas chan saw mask like those are those are quintessentially seventies to set in the nineties you know you're making a different movie or the two thousands or any of those ever like to take it out of that era was to change the movie entirely it really is what made me laugh about the reviews for leather face when i was reading it is like oh and the soil family goes on the run from a crazy cop who's after them because they killed someone in his family like oh my god you ripped off the devil's rejects that's literally the plot of devils rejects rob zombies homage love letter to the original texas chan saw it's a zero x of a zero x boom also without the ros on the movies yeah rejects is the best one i just thrown that one out there i don't care either one who would be a better combatant for Jason who like actually has a chance against jason you think it's like my he's just a dude despite all the shit they built into him like the capitated hollering water so like i think that uh i like i like jason versus mic um i always like jason versus ready i thought that was cool somebody from the same era that's somebody that like similarly works you know like but i just in versus candy man jason versus candy man work i like jason versus uh the hellraiser guy there you go see i would have to give it to the hellraiser guy because he's like all love crafting and shit yeah pinhead uh you know his whole thing is like is like emptiness and like you know it's like this nothing else and it's like jason is just basically it's like jason is just a robot or like a hollow he's a roving murder machine yeah i mean like would it be fun to see jason versus terminator where it's just like uh you know you got the you know that's the intermenter to where it's a skull i mean like okay so yes you know this scene let me describe it again please do the the skulls all over the place it's 2029 blah blah and then like you see the skull and the turn here split like just crushes it and you see this war period it's awesome i saw theaters the other other day and holy fuck was it good um but you basically have that again where it's like it's 2029 and then like you you pan you know across uh the the war raging los angeles and then you like fade into it like going across like the nuclear fire kissed landscape of america goes on over to like camp crystal lake where it's just a like full of souls and then like jason just blasts out of the lake it's else what do you mean there's no more teens to kill i guess i'll have to start killing robots or regular people and it's like we're fighting terminators and there's this guy yeah like what the fuck is this like why is it with oh and there's magic to fuck me like god damn we just can't catch a break in the shitty world can't wait exactly like that's that's the fun of that kind of thing i mean it would be like yeah so anyway i guess that i don't know there you go so jason all day every day easily especially gets the greeper there you go uh here's another comedy cartoon one sterling archer super spy of archer versus stand smith american spy of american dad yeah uh smith because roger because roger would fuck it up somehow roger always but roger is the like he's like the anti-slimer in that like yes every episode has to be in some way about roger but it's he organically became the center of the show which is interesting well because like roger is a very predictable but also i'm like he is he has such a interesting character because he like he needs to be the center of attention and so he becomes it organically in the show yeah and so you know people people have to wonder about roger because roger wouldn't have it any other way it's not like the show is like we recognize roger is important so like we're gonna change the show about roger you you like they crafted a roger character such that he influenced he influences the the the the lifeblood of the actual show so like even if they do say incorporate it has to be a roger people of roger that's who roger is so roger changes the nature of the show it's you know it's the chicken of the egg it's amazing so like it's great to even like in like recent episodes characters are aware of this about roger to where he's like oh i'll take you to meet someone seriously roger if it's just you in a fucking costume again i'm gonna lose my god and it's always just him in a costume or whenever they like ask him for help and you're like don't ask him for help he's going to take it away from you and he's going to ruin it forever and he always does um yeah but like well and here's the thing roger wouldn't do it predictably wouldn't be like roger would be like stands in trouble oh no it would be like roger would be annoyed that stan was so involved in a spy fight that he isn't paying attention to him right and that he would then kill archer to get stan's attention or he would try and work with archer right stand with insult roger so he wanted to stand like his opinion matters to him they'd have a drinking contest because archer and roger are both raging alcohol so that would only make sense yeah so i mean i i think that roger would be the end result of the show of that matchup archer is definitely deadlier than stan the shows gone out of its way to stay stan puts on this air of being a big tough ci man but at the end of the day he's actually quite ineffectual in fact didn't never killed anyone for the longest period of time when he did kill somebody was by accident yes it's true uh stan is a fun character i like watching him more than any other second forlant show uh say it's the last good one yeah that's one of the good but archer would beat stan but archer would never be able to walk away because archer would destroy him yes true archer does kill people and has killed people he's definitely got a bit more of a psychotic streak in him that's for sure archer doesn't care like archer's more apathetic i think than he cares more now that he has a family and he has a kid and everything but he's still archer at the end of the day right exactly but it's also like again it really would come down to more of a battle of archer versus roger and archer's pretty dand chaotic too like he's gotten some very archerous situations where it's like oh he's get sense to pirate island oh now archer is taken over pirate island and he's got them all playing lacrosse now because that's what he wants that's fair that'll be a cool match up it'd be great to see i still say roger that's yeah i mean that's that's fair you're right i mean he also too roger has many powers yes roger's many powers you never know what roger's capable of or what i do is or how we can do it yeah so you know yeah roger yeah warren says that archer just half-asses whereas roger puts a whole effort i'll paraphrase that and change up to be like to use a simple quote like roger uses this whole ass i was using my whole ass so all right we're at the point where we got two more i think if you if you want to prioritize them okay cool cool well let me look at my list here uh i got one that i think will be really good and i got one that might be a little one-sided because i know you don't watch the show so you can't really stay precedent right but you can say for one side that again this is this is like new school cartoon network versus old school cartoon network is what i'm doing here the powerpuff girls versus the crystal gems from seven universe i don't watch that show but i say powerpuff girls powerpuff girls have superman level strength and abilities is definitely what they have yeah i don't know who those characters are i haven't seen a single frame of animation from seven universe i have no idea what you're talking about i see i think it would actually be a little bit closer because the crystal gems are aliens also have a history of fighting giant monsters and against all else they confused together but then again actually here's some dumb shit so you see for the like reboot powerpuff girls show they introduced a new one yes i did they introduced a fourth one apparently they can also fuse together too so it's not enough that the powerpuff girls reboot isn't as good as the original but now it's actually crib and notes from steven universe on top of it uh the reason why i don't care or the reason why it doesn't matter is because like it doesn't it's around the new powerpuff girls is uh is irrelevant it's and no one's watching it's culturally garbage it has nothing going for it there's nothing original or good about it to make it to warrant its existence which means that the culture will never accept it it's gonna be the ghost book 2016 all over again instead of it being like oh it's gonna change all this stuff instead it's it's more like remember powerpuff girls it's great or remember ghostbusters it's great and also they they tried this other thing and it was really bad like you have to press that so yeah like yeah and karchen network is dumping it on sunday night so clearly they don't give a shit about it anymore they don't give a shit about anything that isn't teen titans go which is fucking bizarre it really is so the answer is the real winner here is karchen network because they are an all-in-beloping force that will always win no matter what that's true that's that's the real winner of this fight regardless the answer is these two teams would fight it would be very close and karchen network would come in and be like okay we're not gonna play more episodes for like six more months and we'll play one a night for two weeks and then we'll stop again that's so dumb and you'll you'll have to wait forever to see this fight and thank god people on the internet like as much as they did or it might not have made it yeah exactly so yeah that's that's a sad one that would made us all sad yeah but hey here's that here's one that'll uh crop us back up here again dirty hairy okay then t-swood versus john motherfucking mcclean yeah two cops from two very different cities both with big long-running series that got weaker and crappier as time went on yeah yeah i would say is more grizzled and angry despite that like it looks like mcclean is now i i also don't say i mean my head can die hard five and happen because it was it was the worst is that the russian one yes just legitimately the worst i think time and technology actually separate these two by a fair amount dirty hairy of course loves his six-shooter loves his you know put it one egg in the most battle and gun ever made more than enough to kill anything that moves yeah but mcclean's got his burretta that has more shot but then again he spends a good chunk of the first movie with no weapons at all which i think actually proves that mcclean's pretty deadly without a weapon mccain will take any opportunity and i think mcclean is more like me and like all of us because he is an everything he's an everyman but i met like me where he's like i have to win this fight or i'll die yeah so i have to like gouge eyes out or like push just push it through a window or you know and if i have a few extra seconds i guess i'll kill you in a really really hilarious way or really really appropriate way but like i'll just kill you as much as quickly as possible like i'm just gonna like murder you like dirty hairy i think needs a reason to kill you whereas mcclean just has to think he reads a reason to kill you also mcclean does more general brawling in general like i think he has youth on his side because even back then clint eastwood was old even when he was young yeah we know that mcclean can dodge bullets and so once he does he just jumps at dirty hairy and he just explodes into dust i think that like yeah no i i love dirty hairy he's iconic and a badass but mcclean is the democratization of action movies and you can't beat all of us this this is also what i was alluding to before about history one out on this one and in history john mcclean totally did when that last dirty hairy movie the one where it's like i think chucking jim carrey was the bad guy in it that one came out in theaters right around the same time as die hard one and it got smoked at the box office by die hard and it was this perfect example of like the changing of the guard in action movies yeah yeah so john mcclean wins this fight and won in real life too i agree yeah until he eventually fell too much of the same traps as dirty arid until he lived long enough to see himself become the villain just he really did drag a lot of their cars in russia punch them in the face and yell up in this big english hey i'm on vacation yeah i know you're on vacation you said it eighteen thousand times in the last two fucking minutes also you're a bully and a miserable bastard and your actor can't and your butt and your son can't act get shy caught in the fuck out of and like did you everything john mcclean would become like the ultimate ugly american in that movie yeah that's not no that's bruce willis get get out of here you're not john mcclean anymore and now just to show everything coming full fucking circle bruce willis is going to be taken the charlie brawnson role in the death wish remake he fits that role now like he does now but no they need a just old and sour if they need to make another die hard movie they need somebody they need to first you know to make a good die hard movie you need to have a script that was rejected and then just alter it so the john mcclean is it yep that's how it worked i said we're fine which was written to be a die hard movie which is probably wise garbage prior the problem because literally i think it was literally about that uh...
for was not a die hard movie and i think five was was literally written to be like oh the john mcclean goes this and i remember like fuck you there um yep but uh you need a movie that was a failed movie that you change into another movie and then you gotta have uh a director who will yell at bruce who will be like yeah who will like stand up the bruce bullshit was like i'm not gonna do that charlie and you're like hey you know what fuck you yeah then we're gonna collect your fucking insurance on you because like you like you either gonna be in the movie and you're gonna do what i fucking ask where you're fired stand on your mark and do your job yeah and i need to act like john mcclean is a like watched one two and even three like and he's like a friendly guy who actually wants to he doesn't want to be there he doesn't want to fight come to the coast have a few lips but this this guy he's become is just an asshole yeah yeah that's that's a hard show like keeping up with that like uh you know the democratization of like action movies and everything who who is the modern day guy is it john wick john wick uh i mean for american people thought it was like dalea decent taken he was like the big guy was like i think that's definitely the like we're swinging back to the place of like older people being the actors again like i'm sure it's something to do with the baby boomers feeling old and outmoded and everything and needing to see cool action hero representations of themselves yeah exactly no like yeah the idea of like a character coming back from retirement and getting revenge and being way more capable than any of his younger people is like that's a death wish story that's like everything up to you know the like john mcclean and everything is circled and the expentables tried to do that and failed hard is really three times yeah i think uh i actually i really like two because it was such schlock three is like fuck you one was like i didn't even block because it was p 13 i'm like fuck you i don't mind uh digital blood splatter fuck about it no but uh but two was like okay we're going r and it's gonna be don't challenge me i am john i am freaking yeah john vlog i'm gonna kick a knife into your chest pure schlock on adulterated waste it's funny it's it's a shame you never saw the raid movies because officer rama from those movies i think is like the next level of john mcclean every man cop action here i think ever explain why he's so unearthly good at martial arts he just is yeah uh so yeah my uh the end of the day um yeah i think john wick is probably i didn't he's a dark horse man i fuck him we came and yes it is great red box people like oh fuck this is great i think john wick works because he's so unassuming because he's freaking kiana rees you don't think he would be this amazing badass but he is what's the thing is that kiana rees doesn't have a personality and he's not interesting so like he just we like him because of the things that he did when he did have a personality and how that he doesn't since matrix he can be whatever we need to be he's the creator character of video he's like he just becomes whatever the genre needs him to be it's it also helps you that those like john wick movies are much smarter than they actually need to be what's like no there's actually this really interesting backstory with this like guild of assassins and everything is paid in gold coins and shit it doesn't waste it doesn't it doesn't uh it doesn't uh try to build a world you don't care about nor does it waste time trying to fill in gaps that you're not even trying to fill it's just it's just deliberately being a movie and it's just fun like yeah it gets it done it does the job i think those movies i don't like is john wick character not really but uh like neither is john matrix neither is john re john every man in in uh what's that surfing movie oh yeah friggin point break thank you he has way more character point break than like in the last five movies he's been yeah so yeah now i guess to close out the show here's one we actually talked about uh in toronto as we were waiting for one of our many elevators at the delta yeah uh we were actually trying to write this as a crossover because it's like these are two franchises that they keep threatening to remake which they should never do because only the first ones were actually any good the crow eric draben versus the highlander yeah oh my god okay so both are technically immortal except for if you cut their heads off the highlander a thousand times because the highlander can kill you knows how and has a sword the crows really sad but the crow actually gets like magical powers and enhance shit where the highlander is just a really good sword dude who got to practice swords for thousands of years it's john connery has that the list of magic powers that the crow has that aid him against a person we'll just all right can't die uh throwing knives in an alley being really uh acrobatic he got a sword too in that scene when he was fighting top dollar and everybody loses in that scene that's right he does because he was all the time oh mr kiggles and super chat john wick plus death wish plus co-zero equals i agree that was delicious but yeah man i mean no the crow is a i appreciate the crow it is a product of its time that is like a per it's like a beautiful sad time capsule that a high schooler made when it's what i saw when i loved it the most of the court well yeah if you see the crow when you're 42 and you're like this speaks to me then like there's an issue no it's like you need to go to every sad high school student give them a copy of the crow where it's like hey look look at this and also here's the soundtrack listen to this yeah look here you are you're you're you're not you're special you're you're a tortured soul you're just gonna watch out for guys with fairy tale names like tin tin the fact that who's the main bad it's top dollar is not dollar thank you the f ging the jackass of the ponytail yes and and the ruffled shirt and minna is like his sister girlfriend in one of their leeher like first appearances weird uh but still funny because i just watch the crow literally a month or two ago did you yes and uh he doesn't even care about top dollar no he really doesn't he is completely he is the extra boss it's like he's the one who's like oh hey you beat the game here's another boss literally no yeah who's the main guy because i thought top dollar was the guy hang on or is top dollar that dude he's trying to kill but yeah then there's the guy above him which again top dollar that's freaking out that's the evil shithead from the warriors and also the guy that uh john matrix kills yeah now he kills the guy uh he kills the dude who raves his wife yes and that was awesome and he's like super bad but like the douche bag with the point so by the way it was not in i was bilingual but uh bilingual thank god it makes that right makes no up yeah uh but yeah like this dude with the ponytail fucking is the actual over boss who is giving orders to kill people like his wife and him and setting fires and blowing things up he's an actual bad guy dravin doesn't give a shit about him because he can't piece together the conspiracy of the guy who killed him and his wife was literally working for the guy he could have killed at any point i just checked i'm db it was top dollar the dude played by david patrick kelly was t bird okay thank you so does that but t bird's the guy who kills in the t bird yes exactly i wonder how we got that name yeah it's it's a mystery that we'll never be able to solve you know the crow can't even fucking put together the simplest of conspiracies of a person who works for another person it really was right in front of him the whole time's like what why do they pick me for this random act of violence maybe it wasn't random did you think about that maybe they had a minute uh by the way Nathan Berg in the super chances document hat versus galactus i can't do that question with a can god make a boulder that he can he himself can't like lift can god microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat it that's the thing is like can document make a galactus yes can galactus make a document haten no document happens there you go at least if we if we are to believe that document haten is the guy who invented the dc universe that's true but the power cause make is very mysterious out we don't know what its limits are yeah galactus can destroy or create a planet but he can't and he can imbue people with the power cosmic but they like but then but no like can silver server be document haten no no because because once again like silver server should not be able to be the feet galactus galactus has the ability why would galactus make his emissary as powerful as himself he wouldn't and yet shockingly everyone can defeat captain adam who is the basic war dr man yeah i know it's ridiculous isn't that so weird that the character based on him is more powerful than he is well i think also uh he's more interesting because that's also that helps but yeah anyway so they have everybody that was our versus episode thank you Joel for coming up with these these these matches i think that it was a great brain exercise for the for the pop culture movie version of our brains i think mmm but uh yeah anything happening on uh on k-jole before we close out the show yeah actually uh if you head on over to my channel i have a brand new episode of the comic multiverse that's the show i do with map we've gone video now you can actually see us when we talk and everyone seems to enjoy that which means i have to comb my hair and put pants on sunday night when we record that show no more no we're half-assing it like i used to oh no i know right i got work for my money i got to do my job what this is a horseshit man you can see that and of course i'll have videos coming out all week of everything that came out this week so expect batman number 31 the penultimate for war of jokes and riddles spider-man two three there's a lot of spider-man books this week renew your vows and uh spectacular came out this week yeah exactly i'm not reading spectacular anymore i think it's boring and predictable and uh so i jumped off that train but uh yeah but the bulsters in this new one cool i knew that's what you're gonna say but uh yeah hey uh if you want to meet me and tim and he comes to the ball for comic on friday or if you just want to meet me by myself come on over on saturday before four o'clock and i'll be there to say hey and hang out with you and we'll you know we'll say hello and post her picture also never be afraid to ask for a picture i don't like saying it because it sounds like an asshole and i'm like pull myself the fact it's never be a free desk um because i'm always down but uh yeah uh stay tuned for packages everybody it's gonna be on justice league versus suicide squad and uh we'll see you guys next week on all the other episodes of change i am sal that's Joel and we'll see you later bye