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Waiting down upon the underworld to smash gang men comes a friend of the unfortunate enemy of criminal. In a serious, all powerful character, a problem to the police, but a crusade of a law. Hey everyone, welcome to the Elsworld Exchange, I'm Sal. And I'm Joel.
Today we're talking about comic book prequels. Those stories that take place before your favorite stories and are probably not nearly as good, but as to the fact. Most of the time. That are good.
We've got a nice substantial list, a media list if you will. We've been talking about it right into these are books that, yeah, to jump into what a prequel actually is. I'll let Joel define it. Joel, what do you find in your research about prequels?
Well, judging by my deep dive to Wikipedia, apparently prequels have been around before even we thought they were. The Iliad actually has a prequel, although it was written before the Iliad, but it is a story before a story. And it's just the Iliad was way more popular. Surprisingly, as I discovered the first cinematic use of it is actually from Butch and Sundance the early days from 1979.
This was the movie that actually introduced the term prequel into the mainstream. Oh cool. Now I want to know when they use the term, like in what context, were they giving an interview? And they're like, it's not a sequel, it's a prequel.
You know, that's a good question. It doesn't say in the article, it just says that this was the thing that coined the term. That would not surprise me if it was just in an interview. It doesn't make any sense.
It takes place after, it takes place before Butch and Sundance, but like it's before, but it's out now. It's after the story. And it's like, yeah, no, there's a pre... I remember being like kind of surprised by prequels.
Like, they don't even care. I always like discount my audience and go like, there's no way that the movie going public is going to accept a prequel. Like, you know what I mean? And yet.
Where they go. I really didn't think that the movie going populist would like understand what a prequel was. And whether they would give a prequel any amount of consideration. I know when I use the term prequel to anyone above a certain age, they still give me like cock-eyed looks.
Like, I think the word has caught on more with 20-something's and above, but you try and say it to someone else. They're like, what the hell is a prequel? Yeah, that's fair. I mean, yeah.
Even though it harkens back to like, the prehistoric days. But that's still interesting. So, yeah, we're going to apply this prequel concept to just comics, just the comic books that came out. That take place before your favorite comic or tell some extra part of the story that you didn't get a chance to talk about then.
And if you want to see us tackle movies or video games in the future, be sure to watch this episode multiple times and tell your friends so we can justify making a sequel to this prequel episode. Or we can pretend like we went back in time and shot a prequel episode, yeah. Either way, but yes, we will do a sequel to this prequel episode. We'll talk about movies or video games or TV shows.
We'll use a bunch of that wizardry and special effects to make ourselves appear younger. Oh, that'd be great. Yeah, I'll call all my friends over to Disney and make an amazing Marvel Cinematic Universe magic. You got the connects.
Yeah, or before that, the Tron Legacy magic. You know what else we could do? We could take some old footage of this show like a year or so ago when we started and then just dub over our voices to make it look like we're a couple years younger. Sounds perfect.
I love it. Let's do that. So yeah, we're going to tell you about comics that came out before or prequel comics. Let's jump into it.
What's the first one on your list? Well, here's one that's actually quite timely because this has actually come up again. Untold Tales of Spider-Man where we went back in time and saw the origin of the parkers. Yes, the Untold Tales Spider-Man is a great series that Kurt Busek wrote that was kind of ahead of its time in terms of concept where they're like, hey, people want desperately to see a young unmarried Spider-Man.
They don't want to go through the fan backlash of Unmarrying Spider-Man. So instead, they just went ahead and told stories of the place between the pages, between the issues of amazing fantasy and all the way up to, I think they had a roadblock where they're like, it has to stop by this point. I remember they had almost like a mandate like, no Mary Jane, no, it has to stop at a certain point otherwise. Yeah.
And probably the argument was you have to, crap, what was it? It has to stop around the time when there were multiple Spider-Man books. Or else you're tripping over yourself and what's the point? Exactly.
Because there's no way that you can argue that there were other adventures taking place in between like Web of Spectacular, Amazing and all the other series. So, until Tales of Spider-Man just like kind of reaches up to this point and then stops and that goes. And it's a really, really lovely series that, so how manages to be a prequel also not like fucking things up. Yep.
Fucking thing. It does. It sometimes can fuck things up. Like, oh, yes, can sometimes fuck things up and all the people are saying that cut out, but it didn't.
It's still here. Okay. Yeah, I'm watching the screen too and it did look like it cut out for a second. Yeah.
So, yeah. Until Tales of Spider-Man is a perfect prequel. I'm sorry we started with this one because it's so good. It really is.
But yeah, it's a great series that tells, yeah, it's a prequel series. It definitely is. And it also manages to introduce new characters and create ideas and add to the main stories. It enhances the books from the past.
The Greater Mythos. Exactly. So, yeah, definitely a great miniseries or definitely a great prequel series. And stuff they keep going back to, I don't know if you're still reading the Chipps of Darski's Spider-Man stuff, but they're doing a time travel story right now where Theresa, the kind of sort of not really sister of Spider-Man is trying to look into what the parkers were doing.
Yes. Oh, no, no, I read, I started reading after, like I started reading it. I dropped off after like issue three and then I picked back up at issue three on one, which is like, which sounds like I dropped off for about 300 issues. Which it didn't really.
But no, it's actually really good. It's fun. I like the concept they're doing enough like yeah, it's a time travel story, but it's with Dr. Doom's text so we can do whatever we want.
I love that idea. It's really fun. It was so fun to read. I'm like, oh, you know what?
And it's like using cheat codes. It really is. And I'm like, no, this is cool. And of course, like it has unforeseen consequences and stuff.
Yeah, it's, I wouldn't call it a prequel because it's not a travel story, but still it reminds me of on told tales. It's cool. Yeah, I guess I can jump into one. Here's a prequel story or a prequel comic that is almost, yeah, it is a prequel comic.
I was going to say it's like a retcon and it kind of has to be, but it's confusing, which of course it has to be because it's written by Grant Morrison and it's the new 52 action comics comic. Yeah, boy, is that it's even more confusing now in retrospect. Right. Well, because it takes place in the past while also concurrently running alongside the present day Superman in the new 52.
But like who asked for that? Because they're also, I guess they were also setting up the whole new origin of Superman. Yeah. And yet bizarre, just such an odd choice.
It's the new origin that's darker, more realistic and kind of shittier, much like a lot of new 52 stories at the time. It's true. So yeah, that's a prequel. I consider a prequel comic because it takes place before the main series, but it's informing the series that was coming out at the time.
Yeah. And that's so bizarre. Also, but like what's more bizarre for me was I loved the beginning of it. Mm, that first issue.
Yeah. I was so on board even because I was like, all right, in 52, they're rebooting everything. It's a new origin for everybody. I guess I'll have to get on the ground floor, but want to get into action comments with a must buy for me.
And yet, and I loved like the portrayal of Lex Luthor and I didn't like the Batman origin of Superman where his parents are doing his living in treats or whatever. It was weird. They still haven't dealt with that yet either. No, no, because they don't know what their well, that's another topic is like everything is back the way you know it went.
Superman, bluefuse with Superman, red, but also his parents are still dead. But maybe there may be Dr. Manhattan killed them though. Maybe, yeah, the fact that it's directly referenced in do's a clock is they're going to reference it.
But whether DC actually are like secret geniuses or completely clueless, that should be like a whole other episode. Time will tell. It's true. And yeah, only time will tell.
But yeah, action comics are prequel comic that takes place before the main series, but informs what's happening. But they also didn't bother to work with the other writers. So like, Remorz is doing whatever he wants and it's contradicting other things. It's like the worst prequel comic.
Yeah. It's like, what the hell? I will say Rags Morales is already a second to none of that. It was really nice looking.
He made leaps tall buildings in a single bound, wears a t-shirt and jeans actually work and look really nice. Yes. You know what it lost me? It was when they started to, when Morrison started to imply that it's all in continuity anyway.
Yeah. They were like, and the League of Superman and stuff. I'm like, because he just can't help himself. I'm like, dude, you just started doing the prequel.
Like you just started telling the origin. But I love continuity too much. There's a million superman origin stories. I guess Superman birthright kind of counts as a prequel comic, but it's really more like just a retelling of the origin that they then went, oh no, that's right.
That's the thing with comics where it's like a lot of prequel stories are also origin stories, whether belated or retconny. Yeah, it's true. Um, similarly secret origin from Jeff Johns. He's like, here's a, here's a retcon origin.
And this one is in continuity. It's a prequel. Screw you. I wrote it.
The Punisher is quite famous for those two where it's like, hey, here's the Valley Forge, which is a prequel to Frank Castle's life before he became the Punisher. And even just recently, Garthenn is just like, and here's a prequel to this prequel. Oh yeah, not to mention Punisher born, which is a nose. It's un-prequel.
Yes. That tells you like the true origin of the Punisher. And the tiger. That was kind of a prequel too.
Yeah. Yeah. He was a little kid. Garthenn is just wants to talk about Vietnam really badly.
He loves it so much. I don't know why I get this feeling that Garthenn has something to say about Vietnam of all things. He loves Vietnam more than any Irish person you've ever met loves Vietnam. This is true.
Like what the hell? I don't know. I think he loves war stories because he loves like what it's a World War II aces and everything. I just think he loves to tell war stories.
Yeah, that's fair. I mean, good for him, but yeah, let it go. It's been a solid career out of it. And he doesn't talk so much about modern wars.
Interesting. Well, I guess he kind of did in Max near the end, but you know, uh, black is white up is down. He talked a little bit about modern wars. That's true.
Yeah, Frank lends himself to prequels because he's just a dude. Yeah. And he lived an interesting life before he was the Punisher. And I don't know why though because like you could tell any Frank story you could tell in the past, you could also tell in the present just about it.
Do you think people are killed in interesting ways? It's so true. In fact, they even keep changing his war. Him and Iron Man keep getting their wars updated and changed so they can go along with the sliding time scale unless Garthenn has wrote it in which case it is unequivocally Vietnam.
It is not because he is old as fucking he's only getting older. Right, exactly. He's just a tired old man. So that we can get old tired John Bernthal at some point.
Yes, that would be amazing. I'm totally on board. Look, look, it's cool. You just did war journals for the first season.
It's fine. You'll get to the end of self eventually. It's true. And you know what?
It lends itself to having an older Frank. So, you know, take your time. Pace yourselves. You got time.
Yeah. Here's a weird prequel that like I brought up because it's so bizarre and I didn't ask for it, but like God help me. It's really fun. And that's Marvel zombies versus army of darkness.
Ooh, yes. That's a there's an interesting pick do tell. Well, it tells you the origin kind of of the initial zombie outbreak and it involves Ash Williams from army of darkness, like fighting zombies and thinking they're deadites and it's just Ash fighting like Marvel zombies and teaming up with Dr. Doom and it's nuts.
Being an overall scumbag, it's so bizarre. I don't know who asked for it, but it is straight up a prequel to Marvel zombies and in Canada. If you want to know what happened, like right before the Marvel zombies outbreak, you got to pick up Marvel zombies versus army of darkness. Jack Ingram in the Super Chat reminds us of the Chuck Dixon series of year ones, which includes Robin back girl, Nightwing giving us great two-face stories, back girl and Robin meet cute.
Super men telling dick about the Kryptonian Nightwing. It's true. It's really nice. And in fact, you can't even get the Robin year one unless it's couched in with a back girl you want to think.
I did not know that they have them together. Yeah, they do. They put them together. I think it was kind of short.
Yeah. As it should be, dick and barber should never be too far apart. Yeah, back when Chuck Dixon was relevant, he wrote these stories about, they were kind of like really sweet year ones that don't try and do the Frank Miller year one thing to the Bat family. They are very much within their character and within their themes and the tone of their characters as well.
They're very solid prequels. They are nice. And again, if they ever end up doing solo Nightwing and Batgirl movies, I would say use these as basses, please. Why not?
Right? They're great and they're self-contained and they're perfect. Oh, yeah. Empty Kaijisou's reminds us of the Gundam original manga, which is a good pre-series.
Oh, so much Gundam. I didn't read Gundam, so I have no idea. Neither did I. I watched Gundam Wing on Cartoon Network when I was way too young to and I was just spent the whole time trying to make sense of this and going, when are the robots going to fight?
When's all this political intrigue going to be done? Right. I don't know. I will say though, if you watch Ready Player One, you might just see a Gundam in a big, big or in that movie.
I'm sure it's in the book. I didn't bother you. But what else we got, dude? Hey, here's a fun one.
The chat mentioned this one and I'm glad they did. Thanos Rising from Jason Aaron. Thanos Rising, yeah. Jason Aaron giving us a little bit of a prequel to Thanos himself.
And it's a really good series. A character I didn't know I wanted an origin to because I'm like, oh, he's big. He's evil. And he could give would only diminish him.
Oh, oh, Jason Aaron actually goes into some interesting places and say he just didn't pop out an evil dark cosmic lord. He actually bummed around a little bit as a space pirate. He has a really tumultuous relationship with his dad. He might also be crazy.
Oh, yeah, definitely. Cool. It is up there. It is alongside any Jim Starland Thanos book with I think most people's favorite Thanos stories and it's a solid prequel series as well.
And it's just Metalist Fuck too. Right. It's gotta be. It's why the current Thanos series is so damn cool.
Yeah. Metalist Fuck. Metalist Fuck. As it should be.
Nathan Berg asked me a personal question which is does Patreon or Super Chat benefit us more? It's 6-in-1. I think Patreon is actually a little better. Although I think that we, well, it really depends.
I think they benefit in different ways. So they're both, they're two different revenue streams. So either one is, you know, it's 6-in-1. Satan loves me, which is great.
Nice. Super In Birthright Secret Origins. Mention them already. Roll back.
Catch the earlier part of the episode. We talk about those being straight up prequel series that then became continuity. Yeah. It's been a bit since they've done some like straight up secret origin books.
I know they did in the New 52 and they're like, oh, we have too many characters. We need to give them all origins and quick. Okay, look, put out like one shot comics that do them. Right.
I think that that's because they don't want to put the car before the horse this time. Yeah. They're like, okay, no, we did, you know, we did the super in rebirth thing. We don't have any straight up definitive origins for anybody.
I think people prefer it that way. Yeah. I like to know what happened and when, but there are a lot of people who would rather just have the stories. It's true when we break it down, the entire concept of a prequel is very nerdy in its own way.
It's the I need to know everything that happened in a story from the very beginning to the very end. I need to know it all. It's funny is whenever we ask that question, typically we are disappointed. Yeah, I know, right?
There's only like a handful of like genuinely great prequels and every other time it's like, oh, oh, you cheapened it. Oh, I didn't need to know that. Yep. And some actually wind up like diminishing or hurting the original source material.
If you were complete as if you need those stories to be a part of it. Um, really Scott's origin. Alien series. Um, he keeps trying, really Scott.
I'm going to make you love the origin of aliens one of these days. No, I won't get fired. Get out. No one wants you here.
You're fucking everything up. Stop it. But I have stories about robots at aah. It's in cherry of the dog spirit.
Oh, God. Fuck off. Write a goddamn short story and be jumpin. silvery cricket says to the secret empire generation books, Cal Joel.
No, because I didn't know. Yes and no. They don't. They're honestly more like time travel stories, but it's not really time travel because it could take place at any time.
They're nice snapshots of what the heroes were doing in the past most of the time. Okay. But I wouldn't call them prequels. Um, Jay, uh, Jay such dev lets us know that his name is pronounced.
Hey, such dev. Just wanted to say, hey, keep up the good work. Thank you, man. Hi, Jay.
Welcome. Sorry about that. Uh, so yeah, uh, let's jump into a new book, a book that I'm sure you're reading. Um, and that is Old Man Hawkeye.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The adventures of Old Man Hawkeye before the adventures of the Old Man Logan.
Yeah. I love this idea of doing Old Man series. Yeah. Particularly if they take place in the Old Man Logan universe, um, they don't necessarily have to be, but like, I know Tiffany's reading the series and she's like, you know what's cool?
This book. It's really enjoying it. And I was like, I think she bought on a lark and she thought it was going to be like stupid. It turns out it's awesome.
And I love that. She does that a lot and ends up actually getting us to pick up stuff we wouldn't normally read. It's true. Well, she'll pick up books.
She's like kind of like precognizant when it comes to, uh, or precognitive when it comes to books like, uh, she'll be like, Oh, I guess I'll pick up this one image series out of a thousand. And that's the one that blows the hell up. Yeah. But yeah, Old Man Hawkeye's a cool little story.
I thought it was going to be lame. Mm hmm. I thought it was going to be derivative and, but it turns out it's really cool. That's cool.
It's like, I'm not going to know what he's doing. Mm hmm. I think he was like a hired gun. Honestly, I don't know.
Not reading the damn book, but because I understand he's like, he's, he tries to. He's doing, oh, he's losing his sight. Oh, right. He's right.
Archer would suck. And he's going to, because he's blind at the beginning of Old Man Logan. And so he's losing his sight and he's trying to go on like one last adventure before, he does it all. He tries to like, reconcile with his daughter and it just, it becomes like a complete mess, which is like exactly what you'd expect from not only Hawkeye, but particularly Old Man Hawkeye.
Interesting. I can have comments again during Forever Evil when they released all the origins of the crime syndicate as one shots to those count They count as origin stories for the crime syndicate. I don't know they count as prequels because it's not like an adventure that informs the main adventure It's more like getting you to understand who Ultraman is as opposed to like getting to understand like where they were before They were on this adventure, you know I think there is a slight difference between like an origin story and a prequel a few of the stories we do have on here are origin stories So like it's it's a great period definitely Mr. Giggles hey guys prequels equals cash grab keep up a lot of the time Yes, they're trying but they're usually like what's amazing is how derivative they wind up being or how like cheap or lame They wind up being and how like no one asked for them So while they attempted to be cash grabs like did they really grab them enough cash, you know Like like you get the hobbit problem of where it's like oh we were gonna make this really interesting and faithful once upon a time But then we were told make it make it more like the thing you're being a prequel to oh right Southstone reminds us of the Daredevil the man without fear which is a great series and a prequel story I'd argue it's almost like a retcon of his origin.
It is a big retcon to his origin and kingpins origin, too Yes, and shadow six seven four three is secret identity of prequel to infinite crisis No, no, it's the story that takes place before it's a crisis if secret identity had come out My time my cross In which case I don't think that's a prequel to I assume that's what you meant. Yeah, if you meant that then no I think secret identities don't think So yeah, no That's all I gotta say about that Couple of honorable mentions before you get into some media topics I wanted to mention there's this whole series that came out from dark horse called tales of the Jedi ah That was a huge prequel to the nude to like to everything that was Star Wars Yeah The origins of the Sith and the you know the the Jedi and their whole system of belief and government and all the like that It was like a thousand years before and you hope and everything huge prequel series hugely successful and popular within the dark horse line and Unexpectedly so I might say yeah, I want to mention them before we move on well I was gonna say you know again when we made up the whole list and talked about games and everything to we're like I was just the old republic fall into this because it is a Star Wars prequel and it's a game and it got a huge line of comics as well That's true. That's true. I think it is I think it does consider be a prequel because the original story was a new hope It's Star Wars anything that takes place before that is it prequel?
Um to have yes Superman Lois and Clark is a prequel to John. No, it is just the story in in in sequential order John does appear because he's born in that series, but no and empty kyzer so they says isn't all star Superman a prequel to DC 1 million I would argue no they wanted to be though. Yes now DC 1 million I think it took place before all star Superman and so in Grant Morrison's mind. Yes, it is In terms of like being published.
I think one million came out before all star Superman I don't remember that's true, but I think that's right. Mm-hmm. If that's the case then yes technically it is because I have been told countless times that the gold Superman from the Sun is the same million and so like yeah We like even though it's more satisfying if it's just Lois like holding on to hope and belief and Superman That no he really is building artificial heart for the Sun and he shows up and he makes a look like a life It's whatever grants that that might be fan in it If you want not quite cannon, but fan in yeah, although I mean if Grant Morrison says so in DC. Let's him be let's it be so There's a story that is a prequel to the series that was coming out and interrupted the good flow of this new 50 series Uh zero year.
Oh, yes Batman zero year is a prequel to nothing interesting It's it will be talked about this when we talked about our epic Batman stories last week It's like I see what you were going for Scott's night But in the end all your hard work was for not because they're just like a fucking everything you remember is in continuity Yeah, not only that but also like nobody asked for this like I get that you wanted to do your own origin I get you probably put a lot of effort into it It was just ultimately overblown too bloated and too not interesting or engaging enough for anyone to give a shit The idea of Gotham being overrun and controlled by Riddler and stuff need idea doesn't need to be about a green Batman It doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't need to have a bow and arrow like no I like your take on the Red Hood gang and everything that was pretty solid that was pretty solid at the end of the day It looks like you just had two ideas and you smash them together and and ultimately It is not as satisfying as the pure concept that was Batman year one Which and you know and I could kind of even see them too like breathe in down his neck What's like what we need a solid Batman origin for the new 52 look the new 50 worth future proof in this? It's gonna last we tell you and you gotta fill you gotta like you gotta fill those gaps fill them with story And so they did and nobody cared still better than war jokes and riddles though At least at the end of the day zero year was about something yes War jokes and riddles is a big pile of garbage on fire War jokes is also a prequel by the way and a retcon yes week as hell Ultimately, I was very surprised because I remember everybody was on the Tom King bandwagon at that point everyone's like sure You know wrong I'm reading this book. Hey more the same I don't like any of this throw it away and to my surprise more and more people were like I don't think I like this story Really weird and bizarre and sure enough The popular opinion is war jokes real sucks We were gonna do war jokes riddles on back issues. I am suicide performed so poorly into actions to Batman on this channel We scrapped it.
There's no reason to talk about it. That's how bad it is It's not even worth making fun of yeah, but you want to talk about good prequels Batman one does your what yes great prequel Kind of technically a retcon but still brilliant beautiful It is trapped in its own time. It is very much frank Miller story if you want to get deep and feminist about it You could talk about like how all the women are either like a lot of devices are marginalized or prostitutes You know a fine trope of Frank Miller's work also. Hey Frank.
It seems you don't know the difference between the dominatrix and a prostitute But that's all right. She's a prostitute dominatrix Joel. Okay fair enough I was just gonna say I'm like you know what one can play their trade more legally than the other but whatever yeah No, that's I don't know but listen for all the bad that has been said about year one Ultimately year one is the one of the perfect Batman stories and one of the best prequel comics I think I've ever seen and the one people keep coming back to right such that it's funny I was actually doing some research about some scott's sign of books in proportion of Batman and I'm thinking about how like in Quarter vowels straight up. It's year.
It's year one. Yeah, and then he just undoes that and does zero year I'm like dude, you just referenced year one and now you're doing zero. He's like no no You're what happened to it. I'm like where it all happened.
You filled it You filled in too many gaps. It doesn't fit in the margins You're one's great. It's one of the best Batman stories. I recommend people who are like I want to read Batman But I know where to start start with your one and see if you like Batman stories While we're on the subject Sorry J J asked in justice prequel comics in the injustice game.
Oh, yeah, we're getting there. Don't worry. Hang on Yes, they're super cool Dan Brown. Can you do a young Avengers for pride month on back issues?
We did young Avengers the children's crusade, but we'll consider it in the future. Thank you Taylor Pester the only thing you only good thing about well jars the arts. Yeah, I thought so too people got really mad about Michelians art and why but I think it's because Riddler was a horrible design and Batman looks ridiculous Yeah, I don't know what the idea was where it's like let's let's make what is it Riddler some sort of cockney Irish, you know fistfight or for whatever reason I was watching a lot of peaky blinders and so I thought I'd base him off of one of them. That's oh my god He's totally silly and Murphy, which is funny because he was the scarecrow, right?
Yeah, and finally lucky in says you all consider X-Men deadly Genesis a prequel I consider it a retcon hmm because I think deadly Genesis isn't all taking place in the past and So as such it just tells you like what happened like in the past as opposed to like Yeah, I think I consider retcon but I'm open to debate and will I am Goldman says Kaitan hell Yeah, oh, yes, I'll never hear that again. I will die happy man He loves kait man so much in fact again My my reading of war of jokes and riddles basically broke down to and this is why Tom King thinks at the end of the day Kait man is more respectable than Batman, right exactly well like that Kait man has a real reason to be upset like fair enough to also Kait man is honest and Kait man doesn't care that people laugh at him while Batman totally cares what people think about him yes, and he needs to be built up by the Joker Yes, so shadow 6 7 4 3 says is JSA prequel to Kingdom come or just an ending I think the justice is JSA like Jeff Johnson is a or the the actual JSA or like I don't know what you mean I know that the Kingdom is a prequel to Kingdom come once and ultimately forgotten and not very great But still it's own prequel. I know that JSA is like I don't think so Sorry, I think JSA something There's another prequel that we haven't got chance to talk about yet and that is of course the origin of Wolverine Oh, yes, Wolverine origins, which again as we mentioned in comic book times a lot of prequels end up being you know Origin stories or like origin stories that took them a while to tell yes I remember that I remember there was a lot of discussion about Wolverine's origin about not telling it and I remember they said I was talking about how like they need to do the origin in the comics because you know They'll do it in the movie and they we need to be able to say we did it first and I was like hey What a novel idea the comics being like screw those movies we want to do it our way So and I agree, but it's a great story and it's beautiful art really well written some Paul Gens best Oh, yeah But but here's Wolverine's origin and while I do consider to be like an origin story more than a prequel It technically is a prequel that tells you what happened to Wolverine before it's it's setting up his thing about redheaded women and the trash That follows him everywhere and being dogged by blonde burly men. Yeah.
Oh look it stopped. Oh, and we're back. Oh good. We're back Okay, so yeah Wolverine origin while it could be considered to be an origin versus a a prequel comic I think it is technically I think you deal you still can call it comic.
Yeah, prequel rather Yeah, we're not getting enough video to maintain it. I don't know what's going on I pay for gigabit internet and nothing else connected to the internet for us to be a problem We're also hardwired to our router. I'm gonna call the cable company so you're full because it's The only thing we do here and for some reason is not working properly you have one job internet one job, right? But yeah, it also does a prequel to saber tooth and all that stuff.
Yeah, it isn't it isn't it isn't you know yet dog Logan Jason Aaron still kind of loves to dog Logan because he brought him into the future and still had him shown up in his X-Men run for a little bit. Do you think we'll see dog Logan in Avengers? No? Oh, you mean the book?
Yes Oh Jason Aaron brings back whatever Jason Aaron loves there's no way that the orb won't show back up in the event There's no way that we won't get a resolution to the Nick Fury Watcher story There's no way that we're not gonna see Jane Foster Thor come back in some big bad way Oh everything that he wrote will return Mm-hmm. Just like Stake over dr. Strange mark my words go back pick up strange the doctor is out is written by Mark Wade He creates a girl kind of like daughter character for dr. And then sets her up to be like missing and dr.
Strange says don't worry I'm going to find you he doesn't ever No way that mark Wade won't go back and do that Comic Goblin says love your guys work after admit though. I loved War jokes and riddles and Tom King is my favorite writer His run made me care about Batman, but I get where you all are coming from you guys rock Thank you empty kajasos. He says origin is co-written by the guy that wrote Marville interesting I believe that Paul Jenkins wrote an origin now. Maybe mark Wade helped work on Or not mark Wade mark Miller worked on origin to mm-hmm on this talking about Paul Jen or Bill Genes in which case he kind of like died of the idea and became a couple of ideas But you didn't co-write it right but that said you know We should talk about some other like books that came out of that era that are written by people like mark Miller that are prequel stories For example the hit book trouble Yeah, if you've never read trouble, it's one of the worst goddamn things in the planet tell me about trouble Trouble is them retconning the story of who conceived Peter Parker about It's a bedroom farce about uncle Ben and Richard Parker banging Bing-bing-mary and Aunt May, and it's a trochess It's got Terry Dodson and Rachel Dodson working on the art So it's like it looks great, but it's like why what bad taste what horrible taste and it's just about like and it's set in the 60s Or whatever kind of like it's supposed to be like it's a straight up like retcon slash prequel to amazing fantasy 15 in that It takes place in that time period before that and the trouble is like that people forget to wear condoms sometimes and Hey with the 60s.
Yeah, and like hey, maybe uncle Ben turns out to be Peter Parker's father But what does that change? Why did we need that story that doesn't it's such a that's a lateral move? It's not even like a lateral move. It's a move fucking down slash backwards It totally sucks and it's it's like and the reality is it's it came from a book that was originally being published with covers of like What looked like pre-pubescent girls and pecanis?
Oh? It's just so horrible and We do have a horrible storm happening right now. It's storming where I am to actually interesting Maybe that's the problem. Maybe we're having a maybe it's because of the storm I'll call the cable company when we're done with the show and like read them the fucking riot I'm in it I'm in a compound is made of concrete that was built before the war And you know my name is Sal when I strike down upon me.
That's right exactly so Mark my words audience that is annoyed by the buffering and the con We're in we're more annoyed as you are I am more frustrated in annoyed We like putting out a good product trying to put out a good show and we're trying to do a legitimate operation and whenever we drop You know it looks like I'm trying to like download bit torrents movies while we're trying to also do this thing It's like no I pay for a very I pay a lot of money for a very dedicated line of internet and it doesn't fucking work on the one day I use it a week so anyway, but trouble sucks don't buy it steal it and and read it sometime because it's the worst It does sound like the worst. I can't believe that I've I've seen that panel that you've shown but I didn't know what it was from until now Oh, read it. It's it's the pits. I'll put that one on the list Here's a book that is a prequel to a video game that people want us to talk about mmm justice Yeah, what I thought this book would be good no one would have thought again too because it had so many things working You guys it's a prequel which usually doesn't matter because it's like no why there's no stakes for it I know who's gonna live I know who's gonna die.
Yeah, what's the point of it and to a video game usually comics based on video games aren't that great? But man leave it to Tom Taylor to blow all expectations out of the water and make a universe unto itself Yeah, it completely gave you something different. It was basically like hey What if we watch them into the DC universe in a universe that doesn't matter like because I think it's because It was straight up a cash grab in terms of its being it's a video game tie-in They were like who gives a shit and Tom Taylor's probably like can I do this like do whatever the answer is always yes Do whatever the hell you want get a blank check just make sure that it lines up with the first game in some way after five years He's like okay, and let me tell you like the art was really bad up until a point Yeah, oh shit this book selling put get fixed this and make it better I cite the the image of Batman like punching a punching bag is his like horse teeth I was so excited to do it on back ish and I open the page and I'm like Oh, they fixed the art no god damn it What what horse teeth I don't know what I mean that never happened the thing to about injustice is I think more than anything It proves that the future of comics is digital they were short they were cheap they came out on a consistent schedule You didn't need any former continuity knowledge to just hop right in here's every character the way you know them Yeah, it's it wound up being better than the games Yeah, and a universe that people probably in real boardrooms at Warner Brothers are discussing doing oh I'm sure he's like hey, you know, they really love this fucking comic about like them all hating each other and destroying everything I just do that and the funny thing too is that the games actually had a pretty good story too is written by Jimmy Paul the other I think the comics are taking a whole life of their own they have so much to the point that by the time the sequel came around the Sequel started to contradict stuff that Taylor had written Oh, yeah, totally what's amazing about that is I remember like there was a time when the injustice comic was a joke and Here's the punchline to that joke the opening of convergence of the injustice world yep the worst DC event in the last 20 years Trying to say that injustice is so irrelevant. They can just want to stick it to them Yeah, I get without even having to be part of the main event that felt really petty didn't it how petty but how funny because at the end of the Day the one that doesn't fucking matter is convergence and and injustice is everyone's favorite goddamn thing.
Yep Yeah, Jay also mentions in the super chat all star Batman Robin so bad that it's awesome whole bat thought my friend and awkward Mexican Great nice figures that the one Wednesday. I'm off. I can catch it live lags. I love you guys keep up the awesome work Oh, thanks, man.
Sorry about the lag Yeah, I guess we talk about that all star Batman and Robin the boy wonder is a prequel to the dark night returns Yeah, cuz all of Miller stuff is kind of in continuity with itself. Yes, there is the Millerverse and it's all connected All star Batman year one dark night returns spawn Batman all of the stories that take place that Batman is in that in Frank Miller Road or in the Millerverse Mm-hmm by the way really quick before we jump into a devil devil ham says thanks I just looked up spider-man trouble and I have to bleach my brain that should be on back issues we do own it I don't know anyone would want to watch it. How do I even title that book sure spider-man's real dad is uncle bad? I guess so you know it in your heart what the title should be yeah I guess so cuz by the way they never retconned that out, but yeah all star Batman and Robin the boy wonder written by Frank Miller with art by Jim Lee is It's straight up a prequel to those to those comics.
Yeah, and so So fucking horrible and great, you know, it's really you know, it's it's me the comic book is what it is You know, it's something special because so many people say they love this book and I don't think they're kidding because I love this book too It has some of the best or bat art that Jim Lee's ever drawn It's really pretty welcome some of the best Robin art that Jim Lee's ever drawn and some of the worst characterizations for Batman Oh, yeah, Miller has ever done and Frank. Oh, yeah has delivered some of the best Batman characterizations It's is this the point where Frank Miller became a parody of himself I think that Frank has already jumped the shark when he did the dark night strikes again Yeah, that's probably that that's how you could argue that was his sellout moment that He did everything he wanted no one told him no yet. No editor He drew the bare minimum lindvarly paint colored in the worst possible way It's the worst of the worst and you know that that every frame of that comic is every frame that Frank Miller wanted to do But drunk on power, but all star Batman around the boy wonder I can't believe DC was so Like arrogance that they thought this was going to be a huge hit Or that they continue in last and they clearly learn nothing from this because they still let Frank Miller come back and basically write Whatever he wants when they don't give him a babysitter because he sells this is the end of the day Frank Miller sells How excited for it? This will be a prequel to how excited are you for the young adult Carrie Kelly book written by Frank Miller because when I think young adults Preteen girl led series.
I think old ass uncle Frank Miller. I think Frank Miller is gonna deliver something. Oh, yeah Remind you when it comes out because that is not on my radar at all. No, no not mine either Somebody asked a Taylor Pester says this that woman elegy at least the second part is not a prequel Yeah, and it's in a way it is I read Elegy just recently and yeah They go right back to her origin you get to hang out with her Sierra family I would call the second part of that prequel.
There you go. I It's been so long. I don't remember. I like he's really good and looks nice, too It does look nice because I remember the art was as has always been like a major Similarly though, I don't mean to do make this the batcast long Halloween is a prequel that took place over 12 months Yeah, 12 months and fantastic phenomenal series that I consider to be Batman year two It is a great sequel to year one I'm also managing to be a great prequel to the bat meathos that manages to give you kind of like informing the the origins of the of Amafia and where the crime families all like went, you know, and how they kind of traded power from you know Just strong-armed mafia also types to colorful costume clamps.
That's that's my favorite It's the changing of the guard and how you know the underworld of Gotham changes man people people love telling Batman origins and like Batman prequels Because then you have like the earth one line of books that hey, here's Batman early on in his career And then of course you got yeah, I guess so telling me like hey, you know what happened? Oh, yes, dude. You're disconnected like yeah, well hot damn explain to me why that is explain yourself application But yeah, it's easy to write origin stories American alien another one that happened just recently that was many many different origins and prequels all kind of put together into one story It's bizarre how popular origins are for Superman, but it doesn't surprise me and It's they're easier to write I think because like I said, you know, there's zero barrier entry so you can just be like oh, it's super Story. Oh it's the beginning.
Oh cool. I'm jumping in but but that said let's jump into some more. I've got two more I don't know what how you have left. I figure what we might as well talk about I don't know how many of these you read but I think it's kind of interesting now with watchmen kind of becoming back in Vogue again before watchmen books that they did before watchmen.
Yeah, yeah, yeah money It's just a straight-up cash wrap. This is yeah zero integrity zero Creative outlet and yet they put some really talented people on it well because you know like it's it's like if George Lucas came to you And he's in 1997 and he said oh I want to do a star wars prequel, but I'm not talented enough to pull that off You do it. Here's all the money I would if he handed me like, you know however much money it costs to make those goddamn movies do do it Here's my roll a dex figure it out. You know, I am not I know I'm intelligent enough and I'm like self-aware enough to go like I'm not directing these star wars But I know who will I'm gonna call up Steven Spielberg.
I'm like Steve Do you want to direct a star wars movie like I'm gonna call up like David Lynch or friggin? I'm crazy amazing director Ron Howard, you know, Robert Zemeckis and you're like I need you guys to come in and I would I would be like Star Wars we gotta do this right three different directors for three different Star Wars chapters and I'll take place in same story Zemeckis Spielberg and somebody else probably Howard and just do those movies and I'll take a crack Yeah, and call the best screenwriters I can and then like maybe I'd work out the store with a friend of mine You know, but then I'd run it through the meat grinder that was the top talent available to me And I think DC was like if we're gonna like just just blatantly reach for money off of the back of Alan Moore We need to make sure that there's at least some attempt at like creative integrity going on I'm gonna make it look like we're trying so like let's get the cubers on board You know, let's get like a man to con or to draw the Syll expector book. Let's get really good Is a Rello, you know, and what's amazing is they are all bad So very unnecessary right like who asked where the best one I think is Darwin cooks. Yeah, men book Yeah, but everything else is really really crappy Did I need to know did I need to know the comedian hung out with the Kennedys and everything and did I need to know that him and Mollock felt bad when Kennedy was assassinated did I need to know that no you could have surmised that like Do I need to know about the Syll expectors partying days?
Did I need to read? I don't know the night owl prequel like is it really awesome that the that all the cubers worked on night owl book It's really awesome. They did any book. Why didn't you just give them if you wanted to make money?
Why don't you just fucking give Joe Cuba and Cuba and Adam Cuba a Batman book? That'd be nice I like that black label that shit fucking 15 years earlier you corrupt idiots But instead you got before watchman, which is just a straight-off dumpster fire that looks really really awesome. Yeah It's the nicest looking dumpster fire you'll ever see is it's just J Lee's art is top Joe cubers art is amazing Darwin cooks looks great. Libra mayo drew some of that shit.
It looks great It's just, you know, really really stupid and to think they'd go back to the watchman well again Yeah, oh, how could they not we own it? How could they not we own it exactly and because at the end of the day what they really wanted to see was super was Superman and You know and Batman in the watchman universe or dealing with watching universe and now we've kind of got it Yeah, before wrap up retro retro says you think the do you think over comic-pop you guys ever cover some video games about comics? Yeah, in fact, we used to have a series called panels pixels. We did video game comics or comic book video games Look for it.
Sam Anderson says here's two prequel series that are completely different caliber legends of the dark knight and spiny Yes, oh, yeah, what's your one all of Batman on a regular basis? You have venance a prequel book all these stories Hey early days of Batman's career. Oh winners defenders letting me know that they're doing something very important. Oh, thanks Windows Defender, but yeah Legend of our night is a great series when it's when it's really good and spiny is not spiny I remember actually really trying hard to like spiny and I'm just like I've read these I've read all of these before there's slight changes slight Updating but I've read all of these before yeah, and they're not like it's technically spiny isn't really a prequel series It's more like an ulti.
It's just Marvel adventure spider-man Just like here's a young spider-man doing shit and if everybody loves it will make it continuity. Oh, I didn't it's canceled Moving on well forget it ever happened because you know the people who work on spiny did not know like when harry Ozmore and peter Parker met so they meet in high school They know that like when was introduced in a love triangle. I don't remember that she's in high school now like it's just confusing in the suit Looks like the movie like no, it's just that was another cash grab for me It was basically but like if you want a book that spider-man themed for younger for another younger audience How about Marvel adventure spider-man? It's a great little series What's it called?
Ika pikes is the Negan prequel mini series? Yeah, never read them I know the governor got a bunch of prequels as well. Yeah again. Just it's got walking down at money Yeah, and MT cars as I says ultimate origin by Bendis.
Yes, I would almost consider it a retcon but it is a prequel series to Everything, you know like everything is prequel left like with ultimate origins and it manages. It's like one of its weird It's actually a really incredible diamond in the rough because like it's Bendis right so it has to take like eight issues or whatever But it's only like four or five issues and it's like compartmentalized and it tells concise stories and shows you like origins for major characters But it shows you we need to look at doesn't waste it with like doesn't waste pages with move the car to work moments It's incredible, but that being said like, you know, yeah, I guess I consider it a prequel series if nothing else It's a great series. So what about Hickman's the shield? Yeah, although I also argue that's kind of like a retcon But the she is a prequel series to like everything the entire Marvel universe and not just the agency of shield right?
It's cool, but yes I would consider that pretty well and very much can and do because even up into secret empire they were making reference to it Oh, yeah, and there's no way that Hickman didn't intrinsically tied in with whatever he was working on up until Oh, jake of leaven face as X man the hidden years weapon acts jimley's captain Logan World War two tails guard marble flashback month 97 Where every issue was a negative one? Oh, you mean this series marble flashback? If you're not familiar Marva flashback was a month long random series where like every book had a negative one or a zero issue or whatever where they told You like an origin or a flashback story interesting bizarre and I don't know who asked for it It was really cool in fact we met here's a tie in with all untold tales Marvel flashback affected untold tales by telling a Richard and Mary Parker story And interesting which they would grow that concept quite a bit. Oh, yeah, well actually that's fun out of like a series It has origins even farther reaching back than 97 They did a series where spider-man has to like clear the pain his parents names to like Nick Fury Yes, I remember that one.
That was like the night it was early 90s. Didn't they adapt that to an episode of the cartoon at some point? I think they did yeah Yeah, anytime you want to talk about the parkers you gotta do that But yeah, so that is everything we talked about in terms of the prequels that that are referenced in comics as Jacob reference there were a bunch of other ones and they're you know and they remain more than just the ones you mentioned I can't even forgot about weapon acts for example pretty big one. Yeah, it's an excellent one But that I guess will be left for part two of this series and I look forward to seeing the list We have a sequel series to series we've done already indeed, but yeah So I want to thank you all for hanging out with us and enduring this bullshit that was yeah, we apologize I am sorry for the the spotty internet connection we had we do have a windstorm in effect right now that might have been the reason for the Problem, yeah, I honestly couldn't tell you but I will tell you that it should be back to normal by next week because I'll run my computer through a friggin car Wash and I'm gonna give help to the the cable provider and will hopefully not be screaming during a storm such as the hope Oh, thank you for so many of you for hanging out with us for donning to the super chat and of course Just watching this episode.
We'll see you guys with an all-new episode I am Sal I'm Joel. So long everybody watch this week's back issues. It's the manga episode. Oh shit This is the manga episode of back issues.
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