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Alright, let's get on with the show now. Waiting down on the underworld to smash gangland, come a friend of the unfortunate enemy of criminal. In a serious, all powerful character, a problem to the police, but a good state of law. But the case is just you know, let's say all the really controversial things now, and then a...
Get that out of the way. Batman dies next week, that's gonna be an announcement. Oh shit, cool, okay, that makes sense. Yeah.
Oh, go ahead. On Superman Day, the guy created a universe. Yep, yep. You know, metal is actually about them building a metal Batman.
Okay. First Wayne. That sounds tight. Alright.
Yep. And then it's gonna be followed up by Superman Mallow. That's when Superman gets replaced by a Marshmallow creature. Oh cool.
Okay. And that'll, I guess since DC and I, you know, have such a strong relationship, they can start bringing into the Ghostbusters. Yes, the ghost that will directly lead into Superman versus the ghost. Let me tell you.
I can, who Dan Schoninger draws that book, he would be like, okay, I'm in. You know, none of these, it would be so insane, but I'd be down for it. Right? None, ounce of potential on that guy.
He'd be like, okay, let's do it. Oh man. Yeah. And then after that, it'll be followed by Wonder Woman, not there.
Right. That's where Wonder Woman just decides to sit in her invisible plane and nobody can see her. Oh cool. So it's really, it's, oh, six issues.
That's a conservative estimate. I assume that it's kind of bringing her back to her roots as like the JSA's personal assistant, kind of like running down the nose. Oh man. Oh man.
Just going away. That's terrible. I know. It's rough.
All right. You know, that's the thing that I do hope, I do hope there's a nice little wink at the Justice Society in the movie that's upcoming. Yeah. Yeah.
Especially since it'll be in like kind of like the Golden Age, it makes sense. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Cool. Yeah. It'll be a nice little wink. Even if it's similar, even if it's something as simple as like one of the army guys she meets or something like that has like the same name as one of the JSA members.
Like, say she needs a Sergeant Nelson. Yeah. You know, and we could be like, oh, that's Kent Nelson. Cool.
Right. I feel like we're going to see the Black Hawks. Oh, I can see that. Mm hmm.
There's nothing to say that he's just not a member of the Black Hawks. Right. No. Just put the freaking logo on the side of the plane or on his ID card or something.
Boom. You got it. Very simple. Yeah.
That would be a good poll. Thanks. I want to consider that's a good one. Right.
The Black Hawks are cool. Let's see. What else? I like how people in the chat are like, oh, who's here?
Definitely Jason. Yeah. Sounds like Jason. Yeah.
I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it.
I'm going to speculate. It's like you work. Of course. With that damn one.
I love it. There you go. Great. Good boy.
Yeah. Yeah, go crazy. I hear you. That's fair.
Are you having any good combat adjustments? I wish. I'm going to unscing go through the Scroll, and C2 kinda got pulled off from under me and WonderCon never materialized and so I was like I guess that's it. I mean, like for me the only con I'm like gunning for is actually the local con that is in my senior side.
I guess that's is every single page. I feel the um, new stuff. Okay. I'm never going to go to one of those shows again.
You know, that's kind of the way that I am with cons right now, because I have a bunch of people that ask me, you know, they're like, oh, you're gonna go to this con, and you're gonna go to this con. And it's kind of the same thing. Like if they don't offer me like a panel or something like that, it's just, I can't work it into my schedule. But if I can get a panel, then I can like make a video about it or a podcast about it, and it works.
Yeah, you can justify the whole experience. Because it's an expense, and it's not just an expense of money, but it's an expensive time. Like you are, it is a big expensive time. Yeah, 100%.
And so, I'm like, I don't know what con it's kind of like, I hate to say that many of them are interchangeable at this point, but so many of them are interchangeable at this point. They are. They really are. And so it's like, oh, cool, the same retailers are here, the same amount of stuff.
And like, there's some really diverse cosplayers, but like, that's not what I'm here for. So, dammit. I don't know. But all right, let's, I guess we can start the show now.
That's good enough. All right. Hey everybody, welcome to the exchange. I am Sal, and I'm joined today by Jason Imman of DCOlax.
And of course, his own channel, Jowin. Hi, I'm so happy to be here. Yeah. Right.
Let's talk about the never-ending battle of cancellation. We have a really bad look, it goes on my water glass. Oh, nice. That is a sweet tune tumbler you got going on there, man.
It is. I don't think of the tune tumbler. I think I got it from like a target. Oh, right on.
Yeah, target got into the tune tumbler scene. Like really early, I noticed there's like just a crapload. I was like, by the way, this has nothing to do with our topic. Have you all noticed that targets now have a nerd section?
They sure do. Like, funkel pops and t-shirts. It's like literally in the electronics section. Like you just go past the DVDs and boom.
It is just nerd central. Actually, I've considered like buying up a whole bunch of their shit to like enhance the set. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, good to know that that'll be here for at least a little while.
So I bought a pair of Daredevil socks there once. Nice. This was the simple fact that I never thought they would ever make Daredevil socks. No, man.
We are in a really weird bucket list era of comic of collecting and comic of lore where it's like, I never thought they were ever going to do X. And it's like, now whenever anybody asks me, like, hey, did you expect them to do such and such? I'm like, yeah. At this point, like, listen, did I expect Colleen Wing to be a breakout character in anything?
And to be the thing that you'd be like, you know what? Iron Fist Colleen Wing. Yeah. She's the thing to look out for in Iron Fist.
Like, yeah, no, I did not expect that. But now it's like, well, whatever. I mean, like, there's a freaking celestial just sitting in the throne room with the Grandmaster and Loki. Like, come on.
There's a giant Kirby. Was there the last deal? It looks like Celestial Armor. I don't know.
But the thing to really watch out for, this is again, not on topic, but behind them, is like a recreation of a, like 1960s era Jack Kirby drawing of like a giant machine that the thing is holding. And it's in the background of the scene. I'm like, now is it because I know that a lot of the effects aren't finished. I'm like, is it a placeholder or something else?
Is it an Easter egg to tell us that because that's a drawing from a Fantastic Four issue that we're getting to the Fantastic Four? Or is it just like, well, we're doing a huge homage to Jack Kirby and no one's going to complain about Jack Kirby machine. Like, fuck you. I think that's what it is.
I feel like that's true. But my heart, I want to believe we're in a world where like, freaking, Peggy Carter fought the magia family. Like, come on, man. Like, we are in deep, non-central.
We are, like, I am now convinced we are in the Bizarro timeline. Yeah. Just simply for, you know, and I'm not saying on which side of this issue that I am. Just simply looking at who our president is and the bees that are coming out.
We're in the Bizarro timeline. Yeah, we got some interesting trade-offs. You know, it's like the world. We're in a Bizarro timeline.
Yeah, Cubs won. We have a million Marvel shows. DC is making like, there's rumors and like strong ones. I don't know that like maybe they're going to make four Batman movies, like, you know, a row of a bat family.
I mean, for the love of God, Josh Whedon, creator of Fireflies, gonna be doing a Batgirl movie. That's anything can happen, ladies and gentlemen. Literally it can happen. So like, let's drop into our topic.
Yeah. That should happen. The probably, these are the things. Yeah, so we just talked about like what, the inevitability of everything.
Here's some things you're never going to see again. You can take point on this one if you don't mind. So we were talking about, Sal and I were talking about today, you know, like what should we talk about lovely audience? And I came up with this idea.
I was like, you know, there are a lot of like comic book runs out there that have never, ever finished. And I thought it'd be interesting to talk about them and see like if we ever read them, or would we, at this point in time, with the distance between like the last time that initially released, would we want to see a conclusion? Right, yeah. Is it getting?
Have they passed the point of relevancy at this point? Oh yeah, and I will say this. I will spoil a little bit of this. Most of them have.
Archimitch books. There's some of them. Yeah. Actually, there's a couple of really big marble books on here.
Yeah. And there's a bit there actually were a couple that I completely forgot about. There's something I didn't even know about where I'm like, man, I wish I had known about it. But then I remember that they didn't end.
So I'm like, oh, I'm glad I missed that. Like, yeah. So I'm following these from a couple of lists that I found on comic book resources and news or drama to give them their credit. And the big one that sticks out, the first one I'm gonna talk about is Daredevil the Target.
Yes. Now, this is that mini series that Kevin Smith was going to do had art by Glenn Fabry. You don't know who that is. I'm gonna talk about the covers for Preacher.
So great. And this was supposed to be the mini series that was going to reintroduce Bullseye back in the Marvel universe because Kevin Smith used Bullseye to kill Karen Page. And he kind of convinced Shokasada to be like, hey, don't let anybody use Bullseye till I get to write Marvel again. Yeah.
They released the first issue. It sold 100,000 copies. And the second issue was never ever released. And then I know that the conclusion of this was that Brian Michael Bendis who was running Daredevil at the time, he's writing the Underboss arc, basically was like, yo, I really want to use Bullseye.
I'm just gonna do it. Right. Yeah. He completely like clipped the legs out from Under Smith's plans.
Although Smith kind of like never really materialized. It's fair. Like, I imagine Kissada being like, yeah, yeah, Brian, you're gonna be our golden boy here. We're gonna, like, we're back in the Bendis horse instead of the Smith horse.
Because Kevin Smith's permeation into Marvel and his association with Joe Kissada is kind of like, such that Kevin Smith, the movie making thing, never really materializing it. If Jane Sannabob was it, you know, although it's funny because Smith kind of comes back from everything that like should be a career to kill her for him. I feel like Kevin Smith could have been the net, like Marvel's Mark, like Brian Michael Bendis. Well, you know, era of Bendis.
I will agree with you on that in terms of ideas because Kevin Smith has a lot of great, great ideas. Yes, there's one big problem with Kevin Smith and as a huge fan of him, I say this with all the love and it's simply because I've seen his movies, I've listened to his podcast, I've read his book. Yeah, he's lazy. Big time.
And as a comic writer, that's one thing you cannot be, no. You gotta be hungry and you gotta be diligent and you gotta like get on that shit. I mean, Kevin Smith, not only, and that's the funny thing is when he made both Daredible Bullseye, he still hadn't crawled into the weed cocoon. And that's true, that's right.
Dude was already lazy. Now the dude is like neck deep in refer. It's like, you're never gonna see Daredible Bullseye. Much less any Kevin Smith comic that is just an adaptation of Scripps Yoni wrote.
And also too, yeah, the fair point, yeah. Where he doesn't have to write it again. Exactly. This will not be the last time that I'll bring up Kevin Smith.
Oh no. I mean, it's funny actually when Daredibleseye came out, he was also working on that Spider-Man Black Hat, the Evil That Men Do mini series, which did finish. Which did finish, but we were all sure was never gonna have. Cause that had the frequency schedule of like, oh I don't know, all start back in the room and wonder what we'll also get to.
Oh, we already get to that as well. But yeah, I think Black Hat took five years to finish. Something like that obscene amount of time for like not that great reward, but at least it did finish. And you know what, it didn't feel like he kind of like lost track of it.
It felt like it was kind of just, I don't know. There's consistency to it. It doesn't feel like when you read it all in one sitting, it feels cohesive. Well let me ask you this, man, cause you're a long time comic fan, just like me.
What do you, how do you, this issue definitely comes into this conversation. What do you feel about delays? Because I will tell you that there's only been a couple of times in my life that I've experienced like, delays that really hit me. One of them was all star Batman and Robin.
The other one that I remember was Ultimates 2, where they had a year between issue like 12 and 13. Now, does a delay really knock your enjoyment of a story? Only when you're reading it. Like if you're reading it now, then yes.
But if you are reading it like, yeah, if you're reading it several years down the line, I mean you just look at Secret Wars or any Frank Miller book. You'll notice that like, they're relevant. You know, the delays are only a big deal when they're happening. But once you've passed it, if the book comes out, I think that you've saved it.
Like if you can stick the landing, if you can stick the landing, then you've saved the book. Because even like, I mean, look at like a, look at Dark Knight 3. Well, watch what was delayed? I mean like, and no one, that is a footnote in Washington's history.
The inverse of Washington, I think, like something like Dark Knight 3, the master race, we're seeing delays that are like, oh yeah. Well, I would say there on president except we have an entire list of delays and books that have never got to come out. I believe Dark Knight 2 was also delayed by the time. Oh, good timing.
Three. I was reading it when it came out. No, he took a big break between two and three where, yeah, because there was only three issues. Yeah, I think it was, yeah, after 9-11, he went like, oh, I got changed the entire third issue and just threw out whatever he had and rewrote it.
And of course, re-drew it and it was, oh my God. Yeah, that was a mess. But now it exists. It's just a thing.
They lump in with Dark Knight that you can read any time. And at no point is there, if you, and of course, the further away from the internet, it is the less relevant the delay is. Yeah, totally 100%. So yeah.
All right, I'm just curious about this. Because here's one that I am so sad never went anywhere. Grant Morrison and Jim Lee's Wildcats. Yeah.
Do you remember this? I remember solicitation's for it. At that point, I'd already fallen off the Wild Storm train. You know, but I was excited about this idea.
I was, yeah, I still have this issue. No shit. Yeah, I still do. Issue number one, because I'm a big fan of like, Jim Lee draws it.
I'll buy it. Yeah, I try to collect it. And yeah, it has this amazing cover with Rifter on the front. The first issue was actually pretty good.
But then like second issue never ever came out. It was released in September of 2006, and then nothing ever happened. And I think that, man, Grant Morrison like does these amazing things to everything he touches. I would love to have seen what he would have done with the Wildcats.
Big time. I mean, we're already, I mean, it's funny. We're in a time legitimately where Warren Ellis got to reimagine the Wildcats. And now we're going to totally different book.
But Grant Morrison, I'd love to see what he would have done with it. Especially back then. Yeah, for me, here's the question. Why?
Like why didn't it work out? Because that's always for me. Whenever it was a delay, I'm always like, all right, what happened? I don't remember who it was.
Oh, Civil War II. What's his name? David Marquez. His wife and baby.
So yeah, I remember that. So they put it in a buffer issue. Yeah. And there was, but there were significant delays.
And like people were upset until they found out, it's like, oh, dude, how do they? And it's like, oh, right. But that kind of piece of information is really helpful. When it comes to like this story, I only remember like the ad for it.
And so I would love to know was it like Morrison just got out and was just more interested in Batman. Was it like, did he legitimately just bail on them? Or did something just not work out? Or did Jim Lee just at the time find out that he was like, I just don't have the time to draw this.
Which is fair because the dude like when he, man, when he finds the time though. Currently, if you watch Jim Lee's Instagram, you see that he draws late, late at night. He'll draw at like 1 AM, 3 AM at night. Oh, that's funny.
And because the only time he has to actually draw. Yeah, because he's not just an artist. Like he's an executive. He's got work to do.
Yeah, he's the publisher of DC. He's got some stuff to do. Yeah, man is busy. It was the same thing when I remember when I just saw it, it took over as editor chief of Marvel.
Like he had when he was like, if I have time to draw it, I will, but like I got work to do. Yeah, yeah, I got paychecks that fell out. Exactly. Yeah, man.
The wild's just funny. Do you think it could have been even as good as what we're getting now though? It would have been different. I'm not sold in the wild storm yet.
Right. Because I think it's two issues. Well, I'll tell you this is my thoughts in the wild storm. I like everything I've read so far.
I think it's moving very slow. Yes. I think it's going to read kind of like, Warren else does this thing where I feel that Warren else books read better when they're collected. Yeah, I believe that.
And I kind of think this is going to be the same thing. When you read this in six issues together, you're going to be like, wow, this is fantastic. But right now, like, so we've only got two issues. I'm kind of like, man, I don't know.
It feels like we've gone to issues. And I don't feel like much has happened. But I will say this, I kind of also wish the wild storm was double shipping. Yeah.
Like it's weird because I've kind of now gotten used to DC Reverb and Marvel, like a streaming this way. I only have to wait two weeks for an issue. Waiting a month for wild storm is crazy. Well, this, yeah.
The pace they're going, it's easy to forget it exists. Yeah. Yeah, you kind of, I kind of find that right now. Every time I get to the next issue, I'm like, oh, I can't think about that.
Yeah, wild storm needed to come out as a trade. Like, it needed to be a graphic novel. It needed to be like, oh, I did that. They had to approach that.
Like the Earth One series, just like, just finish the damn thing. Trust me. It's got Warren else's name on it. The art is phenomenal.
And it's of course connected to the Wild storm universe, or at least it's a reimagining of it. Just put up a thing. It'll sell. And then it'll get on the New York, well, not on the New York Times, but on some bestseller lists.
Yeah. I say that. So another delay or another story that will never be finished. Sal, do you remember Cross Gen comics?
I sure do. I didn't bother with Cross Gen, but I do remember them existing and having stuff coming out. Yeah. I never dipped into them either.
Although I've now gone back and read Ruse, which was the Mark Waitrall at Home series. Yeah. It's quite good. Right on.
And then I've never read Sojourn. But that is like a current music. And it was drawn by Greg Land. It's kind of the book that really made Greg Land like the huge deal that he is now.
Interesting. And I've always heard that that one's good, but I just never have. And it's one of those things that every time I go to the cheap bookshop, I keep thinking about buying it for a dollar, but I just never do. So Cross Gen apparently had a mini series called Negation War in 2004.
OK. Brought all their titles together. And then the company filed for bankruptcy. And they never finished that big series.
That couldn't be more appropriate. Get everybody together and then sync the ship. That's funny. I can imagine how sad that was for them.
Where it's like the inception of that. We're going to do a big freaking event. We're going to get everybody together. And then being like, well, we're never going to put this out.
We're never. OK. That's funny. Cross Gen is specifically responsible.
Three or four years ago, I went to Megacon in Florida just because I happened to be in Orlando working for something else. And then I found out Megacon was happening. I was like, Cross Gen. So I went there.
And I started talking. There was a bunch of creators that I'd never met there before. And I was like, oh, Chuck Dixon. I've never seen you as San Diego.
Ron Mars, what are you doing here? And they were all like, well, we used to work for Cross Gen. And Cross Gen was, did that requirement? Or you had to move to Florida to work for them?
If you were an artist, you moved to Florida. You're a writer. You moved to Florida. Wow.
Florida. You all had to go to Florida. But the guarantee was they were like, we're going to give you health care and we're going to leave you a full-time sour. Yeah.
Then they're making that move. Because like, that's not guaranteed. And so many of those creators went down there and worked for Cross Gen. And they just have never moved since.
Yeah. Well, because no one's ever going to offer them a severance or any of it or any moving expenses to draw for Marvel. Like, it's never going to happen. Exactly.
Yeah. The big two were never going to do that. No. All right.
So here's the guy, the thumbnail. And then I remember they talked about that they were going to redo it again. And they were going to call it Dark Knight Boy Wonder and release the last six issues. Yeah.
Yeah. They were going to like train separated from the all-star logo. You know, like, yes. Yeah.
Because they were going to be like, this is in the Dark Knight universe, whatever. Blah, blah, blah. And then it just never happened. No.
I remember when all-star man around the boy Wonder came out as a U, of course. And I remember like, I bought it. Yeah. Oh, I have every single issue.
Because, and by the way, it was easy to buy. I think it was $3 an issue and buying one issue for $3 every year or every two years was an easy requirement to make. Because damn, I think the first two issues came out in time. And then from then on out, it was every year, every other year.
Or like, I think it took three years for that for eight issues to come out. Yeah. Yeah. Some like that.
It was just rough. You know, it is a rough, I mean, the bigger problem is that they spent five issues just getting Robin to the bad day. And then there was pages with so many caption balloons on it. You're just like, good, god.
But I will say this, I love looking at that book every once in a while because like, man, Robin has never looked better than that book. That's a thing. Like, anyone who ever says, ah, the old Robin suits sucks, you're mad, I don't really care for the old like Dick Grayson Robin suit. Look at it through the lens of Jim Lee's pencils and you will be convinced that it is awesome.
I mean, like, you can make eating toast look freaking epic and cool. But like, the fact is that book is Jim Lee's triple A game. Yeah. You know, dude is like, I'm working with Frank Miller.
I'm doing a prequel to Dark Knight Returns. I got to do everything I can. And nothing could exemplify that more than the, I think it's six page fold out spread of the bad game. Amazing.
Yeah. And also, it's so funny. That was around the same time that Ultimates too as well that that giant page where it's all them biting the alien he's had quicksilver across that wall. Oh, yeah.
That was cool. Yeah. I will say this that like for all the fall to that story, and there are a lot of them. Yeah.
I do think the idea of Batman and Robin painting a house yellow and then inviting Green Lantern over is hysterical. Oh, my God. Everybody loves that scene. That's for everyone.
That's the redeeming moment. You know, all sort of Batman is in painting that room. I will admit that it's the height of like, oh, I see what we're doing with this. It's so silly.
It's so fun because he's such a dick about it too. Like everyone's just, everyone's ridiculous in that whole series. I remember when they were saying when, because it was, it came out, I think it started in 2005. I think you're right.
Yeah, yeah, it doesn't. And the delays started happening and people were like, what is taking so long? And they all assumed that because it's so gorgeous, because Jim Lee has history. And around that time, there was a history of, well, the last one book didn't come out of like, man, it must just take Jim Lee forever to draw this damn book.
And Jim Lee came out and said, yeah, it was so funny because he comes out and goes, it's not Frank Miller, everybody, it's me. And everyone went, but we didn't ask you if it was Frank Miller. Jim, what's going on here? And then you think about Dark Knight's Strikes Again, and you're like, I think Miller's taken.
I think Miller's the one who's taken forever in this book. Because I remember he would forget what's happening in between issues. Clearly, he's writing each issue right before the deadline, or well, we'll pass the deadline. Because they're in the car for 13 hours to get from the circus in Gotham to the Batcave?
No, that can't be. You mean they published a milk cart missing person report, for Dick Grayson, while he's in the Batcave? Oh, no. No, that's just Miller had that idea that it was three issues ago.
And who can remember what happened three issues ago? That was 12 years ago. There's a lot to unpack for that issue. The All Star line is a line that I really wish had continued me too.
I wish because there was a, there's talk, or actually it was sort of confirmed by Greg last year, that his Wonder Woman year one that he didn't rebirth was going to be his All Star Wonder Woman. What'd it take him that? I assume that would have been the thing to do, right? And then there was also supposed to be an All Star Bat girl written by Jeff Johns.
Oh, OK. Yeah. I was like, oh, yeah. And then there was one other one.
I think there was an All Star Aquaman. And I can't remember who he was going to write that too. But they announced all of them. And they were like, we're going to slowly pepper them out.
And then as soon as the delays on Batman started happening, and I think they also happened on Superman as well, they just like dropped them all. That's a thing. And I think that's the stuff of the entire line, because All Star Superman, while there were delays, is still hailed as one of the top three best Superman stores of all time. I mean, I think I call it my favorite comic book of all time.
It's perfect. And then they're like, well, we struggle. Let's do Batman. And let's get Jimmy and Frank Miller.
How could you go wrong? Oh, how could you go wrong? Well, here's exactly how there's eight issues, like a story arc about how you can go wrong, because damn. But yeah, delayed and never returned.
And then of course, they even teased it. They dared to tease us. They're like, don't worry. Remember that book that clearly is never going to end?
We're going to rebrand it and then end it. No. I assume, by the way, that Lee would not draw the last few issues of that series. You know, it's one of these things where it's like, well, right now, there'd be no point in ending it, or like doing it at all.
No. But if you did, it's like, hey, just give it to Andy Cuber. Oh, god. Yeah.
Just give it to Andy Cuber. Yeah. But also, when they finish Dark Knight 3, that might be the perfect time to just, because they've said forever that those scripts are like the last six issues are finished supposedly. I buy that.
I mean, it's been almost 10 years with you. Yeah. So just give him to Andy Cuber. Brand name is Dark Knight Boy Wonder.
And then hey, you can keep that dark knight train running. Exactly. Because whenever you think about Dark Knight 3, I mean, I really thought the beginning of it was really good. And now, since the delay is up, I've been like, OK.
But it still sells really well. Well, again, it's because when it comes out, you go, oh, yeah. I still have those issues. I'll buy it.
Like, it's not like, damn it. Every month, I've got to make a choice. What I can pray were times. What I have to get.
Like, that book is not indispensable. But it does exist. And I'm buying it every time it comes out. And mostly, it's because I'm like, I want to get ready for back issues.
There's no question. I'm going to do that book. But yeah. All right.
So I have another one for you. Let's hear it. OK. We're going back in a Warren-Alice territory.
OK. You know, the man who's no stranger to the delays. Remember when in 2006, he revived the new universe? Yeah.
Was Salvador LaRocca? Oh, yeah. That was, it's Salvador LaRocca. Like, drew everybody's movie stars?
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I remember being like, wow.
I remember they teased it. They were like, here's the logo. And I'm like, oh, right, the universe from like 86 or whatever. How cool.
They're going to get back. And then, no. Now, there's a little bit of a story here. So they did six issues apparently.
And there's like one trade. There's one hard car for trade that you can find. And they picked the dollar bins. I can't remember what you can mention everywhere.
Yeah. And they did two issues of a follow up series called New Universal Shockwave. But then apparently the story is that Warren-Alice lost all of his notes and scripts for the series in a computer crash. Oh, God.
That's the worst. And then apparently he was just like, eh. You know what's funny? If I were him, I'd be like, well, I'm not going to rewrite that.
Ha, ha, ha, ha. You know, this is a series that I remember always being very curious about. But I never picked it up. And I always thought that trade.
And I was going to be like, well, I like Warren-Alice. I like Salvador LaRocca. Like, there was just something of a thing that I never picked it up. Yeah.
I wanted to like the new universe. But I didn't. Oh, you read it? I read the original new universe.
I checked that out. And I was like, oh, cool. And the idea. But it didn't connect with me.
And I was like, ah, I'm not down for that. And I picked up, I think, the first issue of whatever they were doing with it. And I was like, yeah, I still don't care. It just didn't connect with me.
And yeah, I don't blame them for not continuing. But that sucks the computer crash thing. That's like, yeah, most of these are probably just people being like, I'm busy or I don't have time. Like, to have your work ripped from your hands and then go, I don't know.
How did it sell? It's like, not well, man. Oh, well then fucking. Just in a series.
Yeah. Just out. Now, here's one that I'm sad has never finished. And I'm kind of mad that it hasn't finished.
Because I think this book is great. Jonathan Hickman's Shield. That's a sin that won't end. And Hickman is such a troll that every few months on Twitter he'll be like, hey, I found my Shield files.
Like, fuck you. Now, how many issues I have that hardcover? But I don't know how many issues of it have been actually released so far. I want to say it's 11.
But is it actually that many? I thought it was quite a few. I'm literally looking straight in right now and figure it out. Hopefully, the trade will tell me.
Yeah. Come on, Amazon. Don't be a bitch to me. Collects one through six.
OK, so it's only six. If only on six issues. It was supposed to be 12 issues. And it says here that like originally beginning in 2010, the series were originally over 12 issues in two volumes, the Mind Series blah, blah, blah.
After Shield Number Three was published in late 2011, the final two issues of the series went unreleased while the creators were working on Avengers. So apparently, there's a couple more issues that I don't have or I've never read. Yeah. That yeah, but you were exactly right.
So anybody out there, you don't know what this book is. It's basically Hickman saying it's Hickman's idea that Shield has kind of existed forever. Yeah. And then it keeps being reinterpreted into new organizations.
It's been around since Leonardo DiCaprio. Leonardo DiVinci. Yeah. Yeah.
Leonardo DiVinci has played by Leonardo DiCaprio. Eventually fights Galactus in the past. And that's about keeping the scrolls and the creams and the creams away from Earth. It's an amazing book.
Yeah. Even without a conclusion, it's amazing. It's still great. It's still people's favorite series, even though there's no conclusion.
Yeah, because it's just playing with Marvel cosmology in a way that you want. It creates this beautiful history. It elicits a feeling for me for Earth X only more cool. I don't like the idea behind Earth X more than I like the execution of Earth X.
And so I can read Earth X, but it gets pretty talky sometimes. So yeah, there's not a lot of action in that book. Despite the fact that everyone on the planet has superpowers. But yeah, Shield Man, that's a sin.
And I don't think Hickman is even close to ever working from Marvel again. So I think that you're never going to see that. I want to ask you, what do you think is the story behind that? Because he seemed like he was going to be Marvel's new top dog in Tell's Secret Wars.
And then Secret Wars happened. And it kind of seemed like, no, here's the other question. I wonder, is because Matt Fraction was the same way. And then he did Fear Itself.
And then Fear Itself drove him away from Marvel. It could be the event experience. It could be just such a corporate anti-art approach to creating events and what you need to do. And I'm sure there's an assload of editorial control that goes into creating an event where you're like, trust me, I know comic readers and I'm a really talented art like writer.
I know how to sell an event without having to do all the chicanery. And the powers that be to be like, we've been doing this a few decades. We know how to handle it, just really discouraging creators. That could be the way it is.
I don't know how the sausages made when it comes to events, at least as far as the true story. My guess is, because Hickman sets up the Marvel universe for a massive reboot, the fact that Marvel knew towards the end that they weren't going to pull the trigger, and the fact that there were commands from on high that pushed the importance of the Fantastic Four away. And Hickman loves the Fantastic Four. He made us bones in the Fantastic Four.
Everybody agrees that Hickman's run on Fantastic Four rivals, even like a Stan Lee's run. I mean, it's up there. I put it up there with John Byrne and Mark Wade. Yeah, no question.
And the dude loves it. And Hickman unequivocally believes that the Fantastic Four and its mythology intrinsically tied to the lifeblood of Marvel. I agree with that. I agree with that.
I agree with the first heroes. I agree. No, they're the first family Marvel. And everything that ever was and was started from there.
And I'm like, sure, Cap predates it. But Fantastic Four dared to go to the stars and show us what was there and beyond. Went from the lowest depth of the ocean to the farthest reaches of space and filled in the gaps. I can imagine that knowing the culture of Marvel at that time and knowing what Pearl and Mother says no Fantastic Four because Fox.
And then just going. I'd rather just create books myself and just not deal with the headache. I feel like it's probably just being a smart guy and seeing the writing on the wall. And just kind of like, because he hasn't said anything.
At least as far as I know, he hasn't said anything outright insulting about Marvel. He wasn't like Winston's Keyleth Marvel. And he's like, because Sada's a hack. And I hated it.
And I hate everything. Yeah. Hickman just kind of disappeared. Just stopped being there one day.
I feel like it might be something like that. I can see that, man. And you are right. If you read Secret Wars, it really reads like a crisis on Infinite Earth for the Marvel Universe.