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Alright, let's get on with the show. Weeding down upon the underworld to smash ganglin, scum, a friend of the unfortunate, enemy of criminal. In a serious, powerful character, a problem to the police, but a good state of law. Hello, everybody, welcome to Elsware's Exchange.
I am of course Sal. And I'm Joel. We're gonna be talking about ripping down a Marvel universe. I'm gonna explain that premise in just a second, but before we do, I've got a lot of things at the top of the hour when I get out of the way, I dress.
It is the 18th of September as of the recording of this episode. But before you know it, New York Comic-Con will be here. And when is here, so will I. And my compatriots from Comic-Pop.
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Descent. We're that out of the way. What the hell does this mean? I had this concept a little earlier today.
I was just kind of like noodling it and then Joel was like, what are you talking about today? I'm like, oh yeah, that's right. Show. And so what I'm talking about is, let's say, we've done this couple of times where we've like played the editor, you know, we're like, oh, what would we do if like we were in charge of the publishing line for DC, what if we were to control the one destiny of a character?
Marvel. What are our dream bookings? What are the series we want to see? Yeah, what would happen if Joel and Orsell were editors?
Big time top brass editors at one of these big two companies. But that's the good side. That's the, that's the best case scenario. What about the worst case scenario where we work?
The dark side of this whole thing where what if we were an editor that had really bad ideas, just and not just bad ideas, but I can hear all this all the time where you see a pitch and everyone's like, that fundamentally ruins the character. That secret empire is what I'm thinking of. People are like, secret empire because we're doing that on back and just coming out in a couple of hours. So good.
But like, secret empire destroys Captain America as a character. You've ruined him. That one idea, literally one idea. What if Cap was in Hydra the whole time?
Yep. It's a very simple premise, but fundamentally destroys the character for a lot of people. Of course, the story is not that premise. It's a little bit different.
It's so much more than that. But so many people didn't actually read it or the years worth of Captain America material before that. Right. But what if we were those people in charge and we did have what's what are some ideas that we could come up with?
Where it's like a simple premise that it's not too far away from what other people might do. Mm. What could and would fundamentally destroy the character? You know, it's funny.
You know, we do these thought exercises all the time. I would admit this was a really difficult one for me. And I kind of came at it at the angle of like, OK, what would what would like a Dan DeDio S character do? What would like a new 52 writers room do in this situation?
Sure. To do it to the Marvel universe is hard because so many of the ideas where it's like, OK, let's make exavillant like secret empire, like superior Spider-Man. I'm like, well, these ideas have not only been done, but they've actually been pretty good in spite of themselves. Even just currently what's the new pitch for Captain Marvel?
Let's make Carol a bad guy for a bit. And I'm like, well, that suit looks fucking dope. And everyone's mad at her anyway. And honestly, leaning into that is just pure wrestling writing.
Let's make this underdog baby face a heel have them be super cool and badass. And then like a year from now, they can turn face again and be more popular because they broke bad. That's the thing in the Marvel universe, pretty much everything's been done and everything. Like, nothing is sacred.
Yes, also that. So it takes a couple of like real strong muscles, like pulls to get to someplace where you're like, what really what is it genuinely and I'm not saying like make so and so purple. Or you know, turn them inside out. Like, I mean, like a care of a pitch where it's like, hey, I was just watching TV the other day.
I was up at four in the morning. I had this idea for the Hulk and it's just like, and it's just like, make it happen. Like just that because from my readings, I'm researching episodes for the future after 300 episodes of back issues. And I'm trying to think of like, and I was doing this research was one story.
And I was reading an interview in which this person was depicting their editor and their horrible ideas and how they were like tearing through the office and yelling and like arguing and having and just horrible concepts that were like in the direct base of what not only what they were doing in the publishing line or narratively. But like what they were doing with the character and it was just like, and that was like, what kind of mind comes up with like goes, let me take this idea. I just just do it. Just do it.
And it's like, where does it come from? Why would you want to do that? Like, does it come from a place of pure, you know, originality or is it or is it malicious? And I found that a lot of people are just kind of like, for the most part, they're like, I have an idea.
I'm a creative person and I have ideas too. And so, you know, and I mistake being creative with being shocking and making a shocking choice. Absolutely. But you know, what's funny is even with a with a with a with a shocking, you know, not creative concept, the writer might be able to salvage it.
So true. What if Superman outed his own secret identity for a little bit? What if that happened? Well, during one of the worst eras of DC post-new 52 and it was pretty blazay.
He also took away his powers at the same time. But what if we took away his son and then did it again? Like you just did that. But what if Nightwing gets shot in the head and forgot who he is right and that's and then became a talent with a terrible costume.
And that screams more like I don't like Nightwing and I'm just coming up with I'm justifying having to assassinate this character by using by using story to do it. But with Marvel, like let's tear it all down. Let's just how would we destroy the Marvel universe with just little little things little lions paw. The death of a million cuts.
Exactly. It's a little like oh and so for me just a quick pitch. This came to me the other like earlier because it really is it all starts with what if right? Which is more like what if what if what if Wolverine.
Yes, I like it was always one of apocalypse's four horsemen. Oh, see you say that's a bad idea. But in the back of my head I'm like this kind of fucking dope though. Right.
Like Wolverine has always been death. He's thousands of years old and not just the hundreds of years old. And the origin is a Trojan horse virus that apocalypse implanted in his mind if ever someone dared to undo his programming. Right.
There is no weapon. Oh, so he just he just imagined all of that. And that's why he always thought his mind was so susceptible to being rewritten because it was always being rewritten by a lot. He was always a metal skeleton monster who kills people.
That's what the best that what he does. Why do you think that is he's engineered by apocalypse. He is an instrument of death. He's always been an instrument of death and he's just pretending to be a man this whole time.
Right. In a pocket says like I met you an ancient Babylonia. You were a killer then and a killer now. Right.
Like yeah, you were barely a fake. Like you weren't even really like a fully formed human. I just made you into this instrument of death and I gave you this metal skeleton. And so as a result of that, you've basically put Wolverine on this trip where you know, of course, maybe apocalypse reveals it and he has to just live with it.
But more important but more likely apocalypse like rewrite Sam because apocalypse has done that before Wolverine's been that. But what if he chose to do it because he's always been that. It's like I just I gave you the form that was most befitting of what I like to see you as and it's like so you have this period where Wolverine is death for apocalypse. He you know, and we kind of almost old men Logan a little bit where he kills a few scheme X-Men not unlike any of the state.
Where he kills a couple of X-Men, but like where he kills Northstar. No, no, he kills multiple X-Men for apocalypse and he's done. He realizes like I like it. This is this is truly who I am.
He's got to kill people like Jubilee. He's got to kill a couple of the young ladies that he took under his wing for the last couple of years just to really rub some salt into the wound. You see, as the chat is bringing up, I hate it and I love it. I hate it because you lose weapon acts as a concept because if you pull the string on the ice flitter, if you take that card out, so much comes crashing down and nothing makes sense anymore.
Exactly. Nope. All you know, it is. It's just it's all you do is it's memory implants.
You know, maybe there was a weapon X and that made Deadpool, you know, but more likely. But you change it back and say he was Department K. He was the Canadian version of it. Exactly.
But there never was a weapon X. Oh, again, that I would hate because there is so much story wrapped up in weapon. Oh, I know. Oh, I know.
I know it invalidates so much. It invalidates so much. That's the thing is like, what if Wolverine is thousands of years old and was death for apocalypse is for horsemen? The enemy of skeleton just apocalypse, missed, you know, just apocalypse is powers.
Right. You know, I needed to make you indestructible and I wanted you around forever. You know, so I gave you that like it's almost like what if he wasn't even a mutant. Oh, yeah.
Okay. See, there you go. That's the best. You're not even a mutant.
You are what you are because I created you. Yeah, I needed you because I because I am immortal and so are you. Right. That's that's the good one.
Because yeah, it's like even even apocalypse is whole mutineness is kind of like up in the air. It's like, well, I was a guy, but I also got this crazy future tag that woke up some stuff. Maybe if I am a mutant, I awakened my own gene, it's a whole thing with me. Yeah, but that then in and of itself, I think if you follow that train of logic, it pretty much ruins Wolverine until the next writer retcons it out.
That that is a good bad pitch. And as the chat mentions you, what about X 23? Then do you also ruin X 23 by extension being like, yeah, and you're a clone of me. So you're not even what you thought you were.
Right. Well, or is she even a clone like of Wolverine? Like you're actually a clone of sabertooth. You're actually a clone of sabertooth or Deadpool or something.
Right. So we'll fuck up you a little bit while we're at it. Yeah, I think sabertooth is the way to go because like, you know, claws. Yeah, fair enough.
But yeah, so that but like, see what I mean? That's not talking about tearing down Marvel by being like, I've just wrecked four or five years worth of calm of Wolverine comics for people who love Wolverine and affiliated characters all at the same time. That is a very dandelier ask move that I wanted to do something shocking with a popular character. That's it.
And without thinking it through, I actually butterfly it back fucked up so much other stuff. And that's the thing you don't think about and it's what most of these types of editors don't think about. And it's like the ramifications of the idea. I love my idea so much.
I'm willing to execute it as quickly as possible without thinking about the ramifications of the larger universe. That's what I'm talking about when it says tearing down Marvel. Like, I don't just ruin Wolverine with that. I will ruin Wolverine as a character.
I ruin Wolverine's entire extended family characters. I ruin the Webex program and everyone affiliated with Webex. Like I validate decades worth of history all in one go. And then you've got like all these other amazing writers like Tom Taylor who's like people not saying it works tomorrow, but I'm saying like people who like Tom Taylor who like take, you know, shit and we've into gold where it's like, okay, you know, like with the like, even the worst part secret empire like everyone who's writing other books.
We're writing cooler things with that concept or Civil War two where it's like I'm doing something with it. I'm making it work. So it's like, okay, all right, fine. You've just killed Webex.
I can fix that with continuity. Like, I can fix that. And then you get these really neat stories and this thing that fundamentally is going to get undone when the next writer comes by and says, oh, no, that didn't happen. So you got like five to six to 10 years worth of stories that are just fucked.
Yeah, that's pretty good. Thank you. By the way, before we get into the next pitch, I just want to mention this show. I didn't get a chance to talk about it at the top because I was plugging your comic on the show is sponsored by you by using Super Chats.
There's a number of amazing people to chat right now who view Super Chats help get their question or comment mentioned on the show. That is the deal. If you do so, I'm going to do that. It also helps to keep the lights on here on the channel.
So I encourage you to use them if you don't know big deal. I'm not going to make the show pay well or anything like that. But that's how we work in here. Like, Josh Bowman is his first.
Yeah, you are the first, actually. So congratulations, Josh. Love the show. Keep up the good work, guys.
Thank you very much, man. Stuart McNally, love you guys. Take care of yourselves. Take care of yourself, Stuart.
Thank you so much, man. Heartless Fang, have some money before I run back to work. Get back to work. Thank you very much.
Jesse Sweet, just saying hi. Love the work you guys do. Thank you very much, Jesse. It's very kind of you to say.
John Holbrook says just chipping in. You certainly did. Thank you very much for your generosity. And as if it says just giving somebody to show my appreciation.
See, like, you could ask something like two boxes of briefs, but I appreciate the gesture anyway. Thank you so much. Always boxers. Yeah, I was a brief kid until I.
Why? I think one of the first times I changed in the locker room and I was like, no one else. Every breeze. Totally.
And Tevia saying make Peter Mary Jane evil the entire time. No. That's that's okay. I mean, we kind of did with superior.
It would be a real fuck up to be like an actually Octavices mind has been an MJ this whole time. And that's why they wanted to get back together. Whoa. Because this is also a big plot to get back.
Yeah. And amazing zero. What doom was a clone of Mr. Fantastic.
Oh, and also something I could see them doing. Yeah. Gorgon Fish, Bruce Banner had control the whole time. Yeah.
Oh, and I'm actually a giant asshole and a giant sociopath. But again, with you, you know, that could spin that into being fascinating. Absolutely. No, it really depends on the writer.
You have to change something. But that Bruce being in control the whole time is a fuck up. Like, which they did to the lizard. And I remember that ticked me off for a long time.
Yeah. As it well, it should. Jolt, you have any? You got anything that we're like, OK, this will wreck everything.
Yeah, this is hard, but I ended up getting four that I like. This one is nearly as sweeping as yours and not nearly as instant. That's what I liked about your pages. Just instantly ruins everything.
This is this is more of like it'll ruin it over like a period of time. This is like a year plan to ruin it. All right. All right.
Good. Good. Good. Yeah.
It's one of those like it's a delayed bomb. Yeah. Absolutely. OK.
So one of the things that is undeniably one of the biggest success is a marble right now, something they totally have over DC at the moment. And that is their young legacy characters who are pretty well taken care of, pretty well, you know, written, they know that's where the future is and they know they're really good IP for movies down the line. Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Definitely. And one of the best, most refreshing things about them is that you know your Miss Marvel's and your Miles Spider-Man's and your Nova's and all these other characters. They like each other and they get along right and realize that one of the big mistakes of their older counterparts is that they're always having civil wars and they're always distrusting each other.
But you know us millennials, we're going to be different. You know, we're emotionally mature. We're going to trust each other. We're going to talk about our feelings.
That's the champions. Like, yeah, that's the champions. What if we ruin all of that and have champions, Civil War, Civil War, Junior? Oh, Civil War, Junior sucks.
Doesn't that just like put poison in your mouth to say that Civil War, Junior? I'm guessing it would be Miss Marvel on one side and I'm trying to think who the Tony Stark stand in would be. Pretty much. Miles Morales.
Yeah, fair. Okay, that's even better because people love these two characters and now you feel like extra shade because you feel like you have to choose between one of them. Exactly. You've got to pick a side and when you make it against Spider-Man, it's really making people commit a Sophie's choice here.
You also then as a result make Miles the bad guy for some people. 50% of readers, Miles is the bad guy. Which just the idea makes you sick and as we've seen with Civil War I and Civil War II, Marvel is sadly incapable of writing shades of gray in these stories. We're like, well, you know, you could believe one or the other.
No, no, no, no, this is comics. One of them needs to be the bad guy at the end. One of them needs to plan to set off a nuke or kick a bunch of puppies or something. Right.
They have to war property or some kind of messed up thing. And again to it, like complete, poor Kamali would spit in the face of everything she said against Carol in Civil War II where that is like, you're not my hero anymore. You're not my idol. Why?
Why are you doing this? And then she becomes that person. Right. Yeah.
And that would be terrible. And then all the other champions have to pick sides. I don't know. Maybe we'll kill Sam Alexander or something because you got to have a body count in here.
Killing Sam should be like the inciting incident or something to that effect. Like where it's like, because I'm for number one, Marvel editorial and readership is going to be like, OK, he killed Sam, whatever. Like no one's going to be like, Oh, crap, you've ruined my decades long plan for Sam Alexander. But he needs a lot.
Oh, I know, I know, but he means a lot to both those characters. Yes, he does. And you get a great image of his helmet with like smoke coming out of it because he was the third founding member. So if he dies, that's what causes the rift between the other two.
Exactly. Yeah. And they both blame each other for it as the thing. Right.
And the worst of it could be that like, because it's like young Civil War, you got to come with something else. I mean, literally to make it the worst, you call it Civil War three. There you go. Because children's crusade, right?
Because yeah, the children's crusade or the children's war, which is a horrible name anyway. Child soldiers also bad, but you also make it kind of gross and disgusting. Absolutely. But but not only do you get to market the shit out of it, which I hate.
You also make it like 10 issues, which would be horrible, a thousand times, which frustrates me to the end. You also ruin Miles and or Kamala for half the audience. You kill Sam and if you extend it further. Oh, yeah.
You also get to involve like, oh, you know who we don't kill? No, no, no, no, you kill Sam. But you know who you also involved all the other young characters. So like we're going to get a victim in hulking and they're going to have different opinions.
So you break up wicking and hulking and also get like that's the relationship we kill. We get them to break. Oh, no, every young character, Kate Bishop, of course, is in there. She's going to have some really controversial decision.
She makes this really inappropriate. She's going to be the junior Hawkeye. She'll end up having to assassinate someone because they told her to do it and she ends up getting put on trial for it. Exactly.
You also get to involve like Patriot, who's always reluctant to get involved anyway. Now he is involved and you've ruined him too. Like you've ruined the extended younger generation of Marvel, which by the way, Marvel would do in a heartbeat because they don't care about any of those characters. You could they you call literally all of it and there's a there's a there's a larger subset of the population who wouldn't even really notice.
No, it's true. But that is the biggest tragedy. It would be and for the new fans that they actually got on board with these younger characters, that would sour them on comics. This would be like the Red Hood in the outlaws moment being like, oh, I love these characters and cartoons.
I grew up with these. Why did Scott lived out do these things? I'm never going to read a comic again. Right.
Exactly. That would wreck everything for the for the second generation Marvel and for those that audience that they pulled in. Yep. Because it because those characters who they love that aren't dead are now wrecked.
Yeah, are now horrible people and you could do that in a really like that would only take a year that would only take a year's worth of storylines and you have a bunch of tie ins in all their other books where things get progressively progressively worse and they start doing other horrible things. Yeah. So yeah, the Children's War Civil War three, the Children's War, the Children's War. Oh my God.
I'm not just right. It's a very simple one. It's very quick one off. I'm sure everyone's thought of it literally just you bring back the castles.
Oh, yeah. I know it's pitch that resurrections are a dime a dozen Frank saves Dr. Strange's life. He sells his soul to Mephisto some bullshit happen.
Maybe unbeknownst to him like maybe there's a mass extinction and then like when they fix everything they wind up also catching the cat with bringing back Frank's family. It destroys punisher. It destroys his reason for existing. But again, it's an idea.
I hate it and I love it because it's like, okay, so his family's back now. So he's going to stop being the punisher. Oh, no. See, that's the thing because he was always going to be that way.
So yeah, you've wrecked Frank because now he's reason for becoming Frank is gone. His family is alive, which means they can die again. So now you've ruined the specialness of a Frank's origin revenge quest. Yeah.
So you're always waiting for Frank's family to die. But also you have Frank as a character following him along. You know he's not going to stop being punisher. So now you have Frank basically being like creepy psycho Batman where he's like sneaking out in his family and he's like killing people and he makes me even more unlikable.
And now he's like worried that like he's worried about his own life. Like he's got a family's provide for like I can't stop. And I also like need to because he becomes like Dexter Morgan. Now he's got a kill room and everything.
He's like a high school shop teacher. Right. Like maybe he's like, okay, well, I used to be like an assault weapon, but now I've got to be like a dagger or I've got to be a precision thing. I can only kill like really high profile important people who are going to target.
Like I pick my targets make it like a butterfly effect. I killed like and then of course Maria finds out and like it becomes a whole fricking disaster. They died. They hate him.
Maybe they don't kill all of them. He's got a son. You got a kid. Oh, no, any of those ideas you branch off from Frank's family comes back to life.
You either kill them and it wasn't special and now you devalue their death or you don't kill them or you kill some of them. It all branches off in either way. No one wants to see that Frank's story, but it sells Frank's family's back. That's all it is.
Man, you know, it's funny to you. The more we pitch this, the more this becomes a terrible main universe idea, but a great else world idea because here's the thing. His wife finds out about the murders. She's so horrified about she takes her own life and because a single father with two kids and because he's such a shitty dad, his kids start committing small crimes.
And he's like, Oh, no, I've been a zero tolerance policy killer. My whole life and now my kids have become too and I'll delinquent. I know. Yeah.
Yeah. Or you have the kids when they're resurrected, they're the ages that they should be now. So you got Frank's kids and they're adult or they're like teenagers and then Frank finds out one of them is also a psycho murderer like he is. Like he's actually a broken, like he's actually like a redditorily fucked up.
Right past this sickness onto my kids. I didn't even know that that's what it was. So now like Frank is like, OK, my kid is a psycho killer. I need to point him at bad people.
Otherwise he's just going to be another another person in my scope. I got to kill my son. So he starts like focusing him towards killing like bad people. And then of course, Frank's got the war journal and he's talking about how he's like, you know, push comes to show him.
He's got to kill my son. His son finds the journal. You know, you got the whole junior thing going on. It's also Frank finds his war journal.
He's got it. Yeah. No, that sucks. But also is a thing that people would eat the fuck up.
Oh, yeah. I could again, I could see this being a whole year's worth of storylines. Oh, yeah. That's yeah.
No, please. No, please. No, all of this. Yeah.
What was it? Gorgonfish. No, split rot. Slud rot says venom hulk.
I know it's if you're not spoilers for absolute carnage, but check it out. You know the Hulk's never got the semi. Really the red Hulk has but regular Hulk has it. Regular Hulk has not but but that's crazy.
He has fought venom and you can read you can hear all about that story on back issues. Ben versus Hulk check it out. Hey Kyle Johnson, the age Spider-Man or bring Uncle Ben back main cannon by what you guys can't wait to see you at NYC. Can't wait to see you Kyle.
Look for us. I will definitely let you know where we are. Yeah, both of those are pretty creatively bankrupt ideas having Spider-Man fall through like the same time worth that Iron Man fell through that made him a teenager for a little bit. Oh, yeah.
Oh, bringing bringing you could you could original five Spider-Man where it's like Spider-Man is getting like more cynical or darker unhappy. This could actually tie into my Spider-Man pitch. So I'll hang on to that. Okay.
But Uncle Ben lives again. Uncle Ben lives again. He's definitely my pitch and I'll talk about Uncle Ben. Uncle Ben is kindering.
Oh my God. Yeah, that would be the right way for. Yeah. That's that is Nick Spencer taking the hail Hydra meme too far where like Uncle Ben is like fuck responsibility.
Yeah, responsibility. This is my new motto Peter. Fuck him. Get yours.
Exactly. The Titan zero what if Uncle Ben and Nate were abusive to care takers of Peter all his life. You press that information. Yeah, there's actually a story that's not too similar.
I think it's out of Canon where Peter like admits that he was sexually abused. Check it out. I remember that one. Yes.
Denial Morbius is the true source of supreme. Oh, God damn. He's got a movie coming out. And as we've shown time and time again, we will derail whatever Dr.
Strange is doing. True. A blood rot, bask in venom, hulk, scary glory thoughts. It looks it looks cool.
You know, it's it's all popcorn flick of the absolute current series. I'm excited. I'm like, that's cool. I'm down and it's a circumvented my expectations.
So I'm like, I'm I'm down. I think it'll be a lot of fun. Here's another really small one. We can probably talk about this one right quick.
Remember during the new 52 when out of the blue for no reason they took Amanda Wall or one of the few larger women and decided let's make her skinny and hot now for no reason. Yeah. You know that flies in the face of everything about her character. What if it marble we decided?
We decided. We decided he wants to get liposuction. Some work done. Sexy Kingpin sucks.
Sexy Wilson. It's arbitrary and it adds nothing. Just like the Waller. The only thing you really do then is you like make him more like a tombstone where like he's like, I kept my my density and strength.
Right, right. Another flip side of that is Kingpin finds out he has super powers. Oh, that's another really lame one. They toyed with that idea but never for more than a few seconds.
Right. No, like Kingpin finds out like he's a mutant or he's an human or some fucking bullshit and he's just an inhuman powers. Yeah, no, that would suck. That would be really lame.
Yeah. I hate everything about that. He's one of the few like really lame. No, he's great because he's he's he's he's human and Matt Murdock is mostly human too.
Exactly. Do you have any other pitches? Yeah, actually I got a couple here. Here's one for you again, dovetailing off the new 52.
So remember in the new 52 when they reintroduced the Amazons and it's like, hey, how about instead of being like cool magical warrior women from an island? What if they were dark and gritty sailor rapists and also implied child murderers? What if we do that to the humans now and in human society is actually way darker than we thought? Oh, yeah.
No, that would be gross. I mean, like and it ruins the in humans, but it also like that's that's dark for darkness that's a very decent idea. Very. But yeah, no, I mean, like definitely if you go full game of thrones with the humans, which like arguably Jenkins did, but really like that far.
Yeah, you make it that's like, no, they were like that they are like colligula that it's like all messed up and they're cemented in time. Yeah. And again too, it's like if this was like a Marvel night's book, you could also kind of do that and it would be acceptable. You could even take this idea and put it on any other alien race.
I'm like, well, what about if it was the Cree or the she are and like, well, the Cree and she are such huge empires anyway, it really wouldn't have much of an effect because as we full well now there's good tree and bad. Exactly. Right. They're more like us, which is another way that the Marvel universe is actually much more subtle and realistic than the DC universe in that regard.
It's like, no, no, not everyone is all one thing. Yes. Yes. Societies are rich and complex.
There's even good scrolls for crying out loud. Yeah. More so than ever before. No, according to the movie.
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I've got one that wrecks a villain. Cool.
So, okay, Doombots. Love them. They're not robots. Aww.
They're actually clones. Aww. And actually, Doom is a clone. Doom died in the explosion that started space.
All right. And when he went to hell, like, the Visto was like, you know, or like Doom used magic or something. But the idea being like, the first Doom died and every Doom subsequently from there has only been copies of copies of copies. The true Doom never really existed.
That is wonderfully lame and arbitrary and just a lateral move that adds nothing but to complicate something that's already pretty complicated. Yeah. Like, maybe, you know, Victor von Doom was working on or, you know, if you want to ditch the clone thing, you go with just robots. But like, Victor von Doom, because, you know, he does bounce between bodies.
He has a penicimic ability. But you could have like, that Doom learned that first. And so like, the Victor von Doom that you know the face he has, you've never seen his true face because he leapt, maybe like right before the explosion, like he leapt into another body or something like that, but it's all been fake. And that becomes a lame mystery.
But what is Dr. Doom's true face? Who the fuck cares? Yeah, who cares?
It's supposed to be ruined. That's the face. That's the perfect. Who is what his rogals are and, you know, what will Batman and Cat, will never get to get?
I don't care anymore. I don't care and didn't ask. So why it's never been important. Yeah, I agree.
This has no effect on what the Fantastic Four is doing this week that they never actually saw Dr. Doom's real face. That's a dumb piece of minutiae you think I care about. Did they meet on the street?
Did they meet on a boat? Does it matter? I don't give a fuck. I know where they met in the Golden Age.
It was the boat. And in the modern age, it was the, it was the street the end. And then of course, they, well, they reckon that it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
Point being. And they'll reckon it again. So I further don't care. But in the, in the Doom story, basically just, it's an arbitrary change, but also like fundamentally alters the Doom character because now it's never been like every doom you've been reading about has been like some fake copy, which isn't too far off from Doom right now because of course, like Doom has done that before.
Like he's jumped into bodies. He's died. He's resurrected like he's grabbed me only and gotten out of hell. Like Doom, the body that Doom is in right now is not the body that got wrecked in the explosion that scar to space the first time.
Right. But now you're basically saying that like he's always been fake. It's just a stupid change that like that pretends to be important and exciting. But when you pick it, it doesn't make any sense.
And it's also kind of dumb. I further see that and I raise you a Thanos idea that just popped into my eyes right now. Okay, Sanos has actually been on Earth since like the area 51 incident. He was the alien they were hiding down there.
He's not actually the last Titan. He just tells everyone that he is. He's actually just a jackass. Okay.
That's why he hates Earth because they like tortured him at area 51. So Thanos is a byproduct of like, like, Fury's experiments or whatever. Yes. Like, he was actually a good guy once.
He only went crazy because humans poked and prodded him. I'll eat it. He was actually a friendly guy. I'm gonna go a little further than that.
Please do. He's not a deviant. He's a scroll that's been gentrified by people. Oh, it hurts.
That's why his chin is all messed up. You see that makes more sense than. Oh, anyone knowing him like his father or arrows or or his whole connection to the eternals and the deviants and all that like, no, that sucks. That sucks.
And it's like, it doesn't make sense. That takes some work. Like that takes some work. You got to really work on that.
You do, but they would do it too. Yeah, definitely. That's so they find a way to make him. I'm basically doing the Lobo thing.
If you remember, that was new 52 Lobo's origin that he was actually on Earth first. Oh, that's so amazing. I was good when I like this one. Iron Man was the one who engineered Spider-Man.
Oh shit. Like, yeah, like, okay, you always sell like the radioactive balls that are like making the thing with the spider goes in there. That was a stark industries. That's a stark joint.
That's why you're hiding it from him this whole time. That would be it. That would be it. I'm okay with that.
Because I don't care where the spider came from. Likewise. And also they kind of already did that with the Hulk by saying that Stark helped build a bomb. Yeah.
Again, I'm not too far off on that one. Like that being said, like if it was like no, Stark invented the spider. Oh, no, that's my genetic spider. That would be balls.
Right. Teddy says, I'm your real father, Peter. Pass. Teddy smoke a one more day to Peter and Mary Jane's daughter comes back as a demon.
Oh, no. Right. Mythos inside. We do Rosemary's baby butt with a pregnant Mary Jane and it's actually my fist.
I'm trying to birth himself into the world like that thing that happened to Captain Marvel that one time. Right. Right. Gorgonfish Uncle Ben was leaving his family the night he died.
Oh, fuck. Walking out on Aunt May. Jesus Christ. That's not what I like it.
Dark and horrible and I can see it happening. Yeah. Master Lance, Masterance says, here's some money for these stuff not to happen. Yeah.
Really. I will pay you some of these things. Don't make that happen. This is the darkest thing about this show style and that is that a lot of the ideas we've come up with here actually do happen like six months down the line.
Oh, I know. In editorial is it listening to us? I'm mad that we like came up with these ideas and be like, you know, as an editor like Steve Wacker or something is like listening is like, Oh, I like that one. Oh, she's saying I know what I'm to bring up with the meeting tomorrow.
Yeah. What was it? See you at New York Comic Con. Yes, I look forward to it.
Thank you very much. Wookie Drew. Happy to catch you guys live. Thanks for all you do.
Would you rather have Iron Man Armor or Mandalorian Armor? Yeah, probably Iron Man. It seems more user friendly like Mandalorian armor seems like you already have to be a bad ass to make it work. You make the armor work not the other way around.
Yeah, that armor is very low tech. There's a lot of weak spots. I want climate control. I want all the bells and whistles spinning rims.
I want a sexy Irish AI to talk to me. I'll take any of the eye. Doesn't matter. I'm gonna be from Queens.
I don't care. Hey, I mean, you fucking amo. Let's fly. Okay, let's go.
Whatever you say, man. Matthew Spreira Xavier's mind controlling the X-Men from the start. Yeah, like the way that they say that like apparently Palpatine was controlling all the stormtroopers. Yeah, really.
Yeah, Xavier's been like, yeah, like one day Xavier gets like conked on me. I mean, like he's died 20 times. That would suck because it's like one day Xavier gets like conked on the head or something. And then like, like, whoa, where's my dad?
Where's my last 20 years of my life? I was in a plane. What happened? Exactly.
Here's one from me. The Iron Man's Armor gives you cancer. Oh, no, but also yeah, I can see that. This suit gives you cancer.
You use a big cancer machine. You use it too long, it gives you cancer. Just like a cell phone or at the very least it makes him in fertile. Right, it causes infertility.
I mean, like, but the cancer thing is because it's like then he's got to go like it turns out like all those enemies now have cancer. Rode has cancer. Oh, you doctor Manhattan. Yeah, and it's all Tony's fault.
Anyone who's been around you for too long or warned to suit themselves. It has to be based on the original design because when he designed like the gray armor, he wasn't considering safety regulations or something. Would Rere have it to her because her armor is newer? Does she not have her?
We're going to go so far as to give a young teen girl cancer. I mean, if you want to ruin it, yeah, she definitely gets cancer. But I understand it doesn't she make her own armor. Yeah, she did.
Yeah, she did. In a dorm room with a box of scraps. I think the trick we do is that Rere Williams discovers the suit gives you cancer. Oh, there you go.
And then she's super pissed. Well, she goes to, well, she discovers that like his design gives you cancer. She goes to Tony. He's like, yeah, I know.