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Waiting down upon the underworld to smash ganglin, scum, a friend of the unfortunate, enemy of criminal. Mysterious, powerful character, a problem to the police, but a crusade of a law. Also, it'll be a good way for us to test the audio so it sounds so... Sure.
Do I sound okay? The mic runs a little bit further away from me than usual. Okay cool. Attention, I got you in the headphones, you sound great.
Great. I pushed it away a little lower. Lower. A little bit further away.
Has anybody been to C2E2? No, I've heard it's a great show though. It looks like just New York Comic Con in Chicago, something about going. I will be sure.
I've heard it's very similar in tone to ECC. That would be great. It's another one that a lot of comic creators are big. If you want to go to the comic show, this is the one to go to.
It's the one they like. Yeah, yeah. And those are always the better shows I find. Oh, definitely.
Oh, yeah. I saw that Colin Bon is going to be this one. He's never at any show I go to. Oh, shit.
Tell him hi and tell him you're a friend of me. Okay. Seriously. I will.
Yeah, Colin's a super nice guy. He seems like it from the interviews I've seen and whatnot, but he's super talented and he's all over the place. He's wearing 15 books a month. Yeah, man's machine.
Yeah, he's a machine. He makes consistently quality stuff. Have you ever had six guns? Oh, so good.
It's so good, right? Yeah, I'm really excited because they now they're, is it Harrow? No shadow roads? It's sort of this weird spinoff.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he did do a, he also did Harrow County and he did Monsters Unleashed and he's done Venomverse. And he's just so many things that you're like, oh, I'm not going to buy that. And he's like, oh, I shouldn't be good.
Yeah. Like Tiffany, looks monster in leash. He's like, dude, here's a quick story regarding monsters unleashed. We were Baltimore Comic-Con.
Steve McNivens there. Cool. We didn't know he was there. I loved your first issue on Monster Unleashed.
And he's like, you did? And she's like, yeah, and he goes, well, you know what? And he's like, because we're talking about, he goes, I'm not signing right now. I'm just setting up my booth.
And we're like, yeah, it's fine. No problem. Which one say hi? I'm like, I love your work.
You know, she's like, I love your work on Monster Unleashed. And she goes, yeah, he goes, well, tell you what, he takes the first issue Monster Unleashed and goes, oh. That's nice. And then he cried.
Yeah. He's like, I like my monsters. She's like, I like looking at them. But I don't care.
Oh, that's awesome, man. Yeah, super nice. I like those moments. All right, I guess we're good.
Let's start it up. Are we? Batman up. Get out of the Marvel mindset here.
And it, it, it, it, it, Batman. So much Batman. Hello everybody and welcome to the All-Sworth Exchange. I am Sal and I'm joined today, of course, by Joel from Cape Joel and Jason of Jowin.
Welcome, guys. Hello, hello. Jason is joining us on his trilogy of episodes of All-Sworth Exchange with us. This is the finale, I guess you could say.
Oh, not that far finale. It's a void home. Yeah, it's the void home. It's the undiscovered country.
That's right. Looking forward to talking about this one. This is in, there's a dove tailing off of the end of Batman Dark Knight's Metal, where it ended. I don't know if you saw, but like the last issue finally came out after mental days.
It did. And it's finally here and we read it and we're going to talk a little bit about it. So if you want to avoid spoilers, I would say, duck out for five minutes, maybe just mute it. And I'll wave my arms like a crazy person to let you know.
We don't lose. Is that how it works? How does it work? I don't think it works at all, but it's certainly something I try.
Yeah, what do they do with the audio version? They can't hear you waving. Oh, no. That's wrong.
Sit there and listen. Yeah. So, oh, but after that, we're going to talk about some of the most epic Batman stories of all time. There's been plenty of this.
Because this was deliberately engineered to be one of the most epic Batman stories of all time. Oh, yeah. So let's talk about Metal and ended. Yes, it did.
Mm hmm. And as we're talking about before we started the show, you know, Scott's Knight Revenge and you know those endings are always a little bit of a dip off in quality. The penultimate issue is always better than the finale, I feel whole. Did you feel that with Metal as well?
I disagree. This is this issue I liked more than the last issue. Interesting. I don't even remember what the last issue was because it came out so long ago.
I'd have to go and re-watch my review. So few things happen and like it's just so stretched. It's just so much like you could have condensed this whole issue in this whole series into four, maybe three issues with you. You just want like big moments and that's it.
Because I feel this last issue is almost over stuffed. Like there's three issues worth of tie-ins they could have done that they didn't do. Oh, why do you have? Let me ask you about this.
Do you guys like, because this is sort of a thing that I blame Final Crisis for and Metal has so many damn tie-ins to Final Crisis. That it should have basically been Final Crisis too. Yeah. I just like it when like the main events take a month off and instead of getting the regular issue there is like, here's the Batman Lost tie-in.
And here's this tie-in is sort of a holdover. It depends on the quality of those books. I actually quite liked the Batman Lost. Like I'm like, okay, this makes it worth it.
I liked the Dark Knight's Little Solo tie-ins. I'm like, okay, these are cool. These are interesting. It felt like the event was longer.
Like I thought this was going to be 12 when people said nodule. It's only six. I've been reading it for over a year. Oh, yeah, that's why.
Yeah. As a rule, I don't. I find that you can't have any major shifts in story or plot if you have the main event delayed and so you only can fill it with tie-ins. The tie-ins can only like spin the wheels a little bit more.
Yes. But some of the best stuff from Metal came out of the tie-ins. Yeah, Batman Lost was a main event. It was premium good.
That was great. And as were some of, if not most of, the Batman Dark character version like tie-ins. Yeah. I would say most of those really worked.
Yeah. It's basically because you've got Elseworld's Batman stories. What if we're an Aquaman? What if Batman?
We're a Joker? What if Batman? We're a robot? Like, it's basically just a bunch of little mini-elseworld stories.
You're not going to get that every time. So I would make it like a rule of thumb. And certainly this is an exception to the rule of like, stuff a month where you're skipping it because of delays with like tie-ins and- and extras, and so stuff. I use that stuff.
But Batman Metal, which is what everyone's going to call it for now on. Yeah. It basically is. It should be called Batman Metal, to be honest with you.
Absolutely. It is that, and yet at the end of it, again, spoiler spoiler, Batman didn't even defeat Barbados. The Hawks defeated Barbados. Batman did his own thing.
Yeah. Is it Barbados? For some reason I always called it, in my head I always heard it was Barbados. Yes.
It makes me think of the tropical island too. Yes. I always pronounce it Barbados. Oh, stress the bad.
Yeah. I really stress the bad way you're not talking about Hermes' life. I could see that. I could see that.
I could see that you're not going to be a little sliver. I'm Barbados. I'm Barbados. I would just throw your hawk man.
Great. Now I'm going to wear that voice forever. It was, yeah. So, I mean, I can tell you, like, this issue was obviously like two or three issues crammed into one, which proves like you should have just made the event for issues or three issues.
Like you could have just crammed them into every, so every issue you're like, yeah. Felt a little, yeah. Felt a little over stuff, but I like more content for the same price. And also, let's not forget the epilogue that while feel good because you get to see everyone hang out together and have a nice little party at the same time too.
It's like, hey, pick up these books that may already be on the shelf or already coming. Yeah. Well, let's talk about that as well. The New Age of Heroes, right?
So they were supposed to be a big part of metal because remember when they were first introduced, their line was called Dark Matter. Yes. Yes. They're in one panel as they are.
Oh, they're an annotation in this book. Yes, they're on. It's like they got hold piece. Some guys also have powers now anyway moving on.
There's a hawk man book coming up. Remember too, they said the outsiders were going to be part of this too. Remember, it's like, oh, yeah, the outside. Oh, it's like issue one.
They're like, oh, yeah, the outsiders were Batman's super secret strike team looking into the metal. Oh, then they just never showed up, huh? Yeah. JLA, same thing where it's like, OK, I brought you all together to help me fight the evil forces.
It might be Dr. Manhattan. It might be Barbra Tuss. Oh, you don't get any time.
Any of these? OK. No. Yeah.
At the end of the day, it wound up being, um, it wound up being just a typical Snyder Batman story, which is like, is that okay? Which is pretty good. Some of those books are actually in the list we're going to talk about where the Epic Batman stories because Snyder, like, if nothing else to do, it always reaches for that brass ring. Like, he always goes, OK, even if it doesn't, even if his reach exceeds his grasp, he still always pushes to make it a bigger story than you've ever seen before.
Oh, yeah. Listen, I would let me give you guys a opinion on this and then maybe this will, like, push us into the other Batman events. Um, on a scale of one to five, what do you give metal? Like a whole event.
Like, as a DC event, well, out of one to five, I mean the best of course, what would you give metal? Oh, that's tough. Because it's so fresh. Yeah.
It's so fresh too. So fresh is a clean clean. I feel like I want to give it a four. Yeah.
I mean, give it a three. I'm about it a four too, as it stands right now. Again, I might change my mind in a month or so, but yeah, I'm about it a four now myself. It's still pretty good.
I don't regret reading it. Had a lot of fun. Brought a lot of cool characters back that I wanted to see. That was good.
And they're definitely saying, hey, this is going to have repercussions everybody. This is going to lead into the new Justice League and this is going to lead into other stuff. You're not going to regret. You read this.
I think of the three point five. Right. It's got to be something between that. I like that.
Yeah. I think it's one of DC's better events overall. Had a lot of turns. Had a lot of fun.
And it definitely is going to change a lot of things going forward, which is what I want from an event. But at the same time, because a lot of it makes no good goddamn sense, I don't know how long the legs on this are going to be. Like 10 years down the road, are we going to look at Dark Knight's Metal like we look at zero hour? Basically forgot?
Yes. I mean, here's the thing. They should also change the name to Dark Crisis because that's straight up what it was. It was.
Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. The original title was Dark Crisis.
And then, apparently, they wanted to... Well, I understand from my... I read this in an interview. Apparently Snyder didn't want to call it a crisis.
He shouldn't have used the frickin' monitor then. Yeah. Because the word crisis comes with certain connotations and Jeff Johns himself even did in his Dark Sideward. No, no more crisis.
Don't say it. Another crisis will tear the universe apart. Yeah, well, it did. And it was a crisis and it totally was.
I mean, like, you know, it's funny. It doesn't have to necessarily like, it's not like the world was rebooted at the end like in Infinite Earths. But you got like more of an infinite crisis, identity crisis thing. Incognuity things have changed.
The status quo has been shifted and characters have been like lost. You know, it's funny. No major significant deaths, though. No, no, no.
That was the most amazing event. Yeah. More people came back than dark. One of the darkest stories, you know, like you've got the evil twisted versions of everybody.
You think somebody would have been the casualty? No. Those guys that the hero bar died, but they were more references and deep cuts than anything else. No one's gonna be sad those guys died.
No. And also it's interesting too, because Dark Knight's metal does the thing that, man, DC can't decide whether they love the multiverse or hate the multiverse. Yeah. Because they keep taking it away, but then like the next event brings it back.
And then also this is like little minor spoilers for metal as well. This event breaks open the source wall. Yeah. So now it says that like, it does seem like the infinite Earths are back.
Not just the 52. That's fine. Like, that's cool. That's a neat idea.
I like that idea. They also implied, so at the end there's a hand coming through the source wall. Yes. Is that the same hand that they're implying was Document Hatton's hand?
Is that the hand that like, are they saying now that like, no, Document Hatton has nothing to do with the formation of the universe? It's just a watchman story. Like, it's a different hand. It's the hand of the creator.
I took it as the hand of the creator. Okay. Yeah. Because I thought I got the same visual vibe, but I'm like, oh my God, but it's not blue anymore.
No. I was in infinite Christ, or a Christ in the Earth and everywhere else. Yeah. I, I had to say it.
Like, I think to be honest with you, I think Doomsday Clock is not going to connect to the DC Rebirth at all. I think that's an upset. I honestly, like, I really think that's what's going to happen. I, you know, so I don't think that's my hand at all.
I think I skimmed through the newest issue before we hopped on. I'm like, oh, it's all about the new Rorschach. No, no other DC heroes seem to show up in this one. Huh?
Interesting. No, it was a little bit disappointing. Really? I really, I really get it.
It's a little bit. I agree. I thought I was a little disappointed as well. It was a little like, oh, I waited an extra month for that.
Oh. But that said, Dark Knight's Medal was ambitious and epic. And you know what's fun? Compulod is a misstep.
Oh, no. Excellent pencils. And you know what I would say for this list as well? I think it is one of the better Batman events.
Yeah. I put it up there. Yeah, I think it works. I think it works as an awesome, like, epic Batman event.
I think it works as a crisis. And I think ultimately it is successful. As opposed to so many other Batman-centric Snyder events, I think this one was much more successful than like, zero year. Oh, yes.
Oh, yeah. Or Death in the Family. Or Death in the Family. But Death in the Family, I like the premise of Death in the Family more than like, how it wound up.
But we'll get there because I think we should definitely cover that. Sure. So unless we have any other final thoughts about Dark Knight's Medal, we should guys transition to the epic stories of Batman. No.
When we do that, I want to throw a quick shout out to the Super Chat and address everybody's questions. Heartless Fang says, want to throw some more love your way. Love this trio things. Love this trio thing you guys have been doing.
Thank you, Heartless Fang. I love it too. Will Elle, what about Under the Red Hood? Also love the show?
Well, we'll get there. Jordan Cooper. Hey guys, just a bit of support. Love what you guys do.
You are awesome. Snyder's Corvall is what got me into comics. Take care. I'll say Corvall is what got me reading Batman regularly again.
Same. And Andy, 615 could not stay and watch us three Superstars live, but he has to have some fun. And we will be handy. We will, Andy.
So yeah, we've got a list of epic Batman stories. Now this is hard to parse because I don't think killing Joker is an epic Batman story. No. It's just a Batman story.
I mean, like we're talking about those scrolling, like, Oh my God, the world is ending or the very least Gotham is in trouble. Yup. I had a hard time when I was looking. I'm like, when you say, like, do you mean stories as in storylines or events as in like actual events?
Because there's been many Batman events. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Your one doesn't count.
Your one is a great Batman story, but like the stakes are very low. Yeah. I'm talking about stuff like Batman fugitive when they thought he killed Vesper Fairchild. I think that counts.
Yeah. And if you do slash Batman murder or slash all the other frickin stories where that doesn't. You got to talk about that. Something that Batman does.
That goes all the way back to Batman Nightfall when Nightfall was it was Nightfall Night Quest Night's End. And then even Contagion does the same thing because it goes Contagion, Legacy, and in Cataclysm. Yeah. And in No Man's Land.
Yeah. I remember if there was like that almost decade of time where every Batman book had that like little stripe on it. That indicated it was still part of a frickin event. I'm like, okay.
When are we gonna get back to Batman? When we're going to ready. Yeah, David. Like, let's talk about those.
We definitely touched on those. Nightfall. Probably one of the most ambitious of the time. Batman epic stories back then.
Mm hmm. Yeah. It doesn't hold up that well. No.
It's not an easy read now. Especially the deeper you go. Like once you get in, once you get past Nightfall, you're like, whoa. Then you get to Night Quest and you're like, oh, uh, kind of like Batman's whole journey of I'm going to save Tim Drake's dad.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. From a wheelchair.
From a wheelchair. And then I'm going to get out of my chair. Thanks to Lady Shiva. Thanks Shiva.
And then, uh, Night's End. And it took forever to end. It was like that X-Men, the end book. It took three volumes.
Oh my God. To me, Nightfall is one of those stories. It actually reads better in the Colm's notes or when someone telling you about like, these are the big things that happened in it. He's cool.
You know, the, uh, the tie-in novel by Daniel Neal actually was really good. Oh, really? It was a novel? Yeah.
Yeah. There's a prose novel about it. Oh shit. I've seen ads for it in my Batman Night Quest comics.
Yeah. And it was like, and then he breaks his back at the end. Yeah. Weirdly back in the day because I had a really hard time of like getting all those, especially during Night's End and, um, Night's Quest and all this.
I had a hard time where I was located in Kansas finding those issues, but I had a library. So I went and ordered this book because they also made it for Death of Superman. And basically, even though it is called Nightfall, it covers like all three events. It's just a prose version of that whole event.
And it was a very informative and a great book. Cool. I just want to check that out. There's so many, I've read a couple of comic book prose novels and most of them are really bad.
Yeah. Oh, I fully admit that I could be looking at Rose Color classes. Like I could be, you know, imagining the kid. I think that it's only better if you make Nightfall shorter.
Yeah. So the idea of like one of Batman's newest villains being super smart and super strong, it's not like, because Riddler can't punch out Batman, but he can outsmart Batman, but Killick can punch out Batman, but he's kind of a dumbass. This is a blend of both worlds. And then he just puts Batman through the wringer and exhaust Batman to the point of until exhaustion and then just snaps his back and throws him up building.
Just solid plan. And then I've taken over and like if you, it'd be cool if they played with the idea of failure, like Batman, because like, the whole of Jason Todd death is about Batman's greatest failure. What's this? Maori Minas Cave, not just honor this dead childly kill, but also to remind himself not to be hasty and not to make snap judgments and not to never again.
Never again. You know, not to jump out like, you know, without thinking and train with the wrong people. I think there should be a like, Nightfall Batman suit in the Batman. Oh, you mean of Azrael?
Yeah. Like never again. No more armor. No more hiring religious zealots.
That was his fault. Like Batman called Batman invited Jean Paul Valley, some to a noob or a plebe like me back then, some rando to be Batman, because like maybe Dick would say no, maybe he would say no. He didn't even freaking ask him. And then you find out Dick would have automatically said yes, because Dick is the greatest character that he's ever seen.
He does. And it's the first time he becomes Batman is when he's got the mullet and everything. But in any case, it's a big failure. And like, but at the end of the story, Batman's like, it was all your fault.
You let this happen. I'm like, no, you kind of let that happen. Two things. One, I think, Nightfall Night in Night.
That's stupid. Night Bane's right. Yeah. It's greatest legacy, I think, is and it's something that doesn't get enough credit for is Bane.
Yes. Because Bane in that context, like you talked about with him being super smart and stuff like that, Bane's a great villain. And Bane is now one of these villains. I mean, he's appeared in two movies for God's sake.
So now he's on the level of like the Joker and everything. Now, it's funny because you're talking about the costume and putting it up in the cave. There is a hilarious quote by Joe Cassata. Because he was one who designed Azeroth's costume.
Yes, the horrible one. Yep. The original Azabas costume. And he talked about that his only direction was to make it the most 90s image costume you could ever imagine.
That was the only thing the editors told him. And he said he turned in that drawing and he was like, with all the leg pouches and stuff like that, he was like, they're going to tell me to redo this. He said they never did. They didn't give him a single note.
I guess it would be like, add more spikes. Yeah. I love that story. It's incredible telling of where DC was at that time and how desperate they were.
It's funny because DC literally had already done a cautionary story about the dangers of trying to copy image which was way more effective. I think it was after this though. I think you're right. Yeah.
I was like 94. So Kingdom of Commerce, like 97 or 96 or so. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. All right. Well, they got it right the second time around. Yep.
There you go. But I thought Epic story just didn't quite stick it. I couldn't even say it couldn't stick landing. It didn't stick the middle.
Yeah. I ran out of steam real quick. Real quick. So what other events did you guys get from your list?
You know, if I might jump in here, Mr. Joel, that's okay. I'm gonna claim this choice because it is my favorite Batman event and it's an event that should not work. But I think it does work.
It succeeds. It's a couple of weak spots in it. But it also to me is one of the only Batman events that I will reread. And that is No Man's Land.
Oh, that's another really big one. Yes. It's because it was a year long. It involved every Batman title.
And it was only until recently that DC actually collected every single issue. They had these other trades that were missing a bunch of stuff. And now they finally like two years ago put out everything. So now everything has been republished.
It is a super ambitious story. And again, when you hear that idea, I can remember reading that in our Fable Blizzard magazine that DC was gonna do this and basically like deadstop the Batman titles for a year and lock him up in his own little corner and stuff like that as he moved. Yeah. But I think it worked.
And because it's so serialized is I think the reason why it really holds up and also basically the Batman universe was not bothered by anybody else for an entire year. And because of that, I think that's the reason why that event is pretty timeless. Like I said, I read it a couple years ago and I still enjoyed it just as much. Now again, there's some artwork here and there.
There's some issues here and there that don't work. But I would say overall for me, that's the best Batman event. And also I just also made in the chat, brought it up. Yeah, Death Charge Talks.
No Man's Land in my opinion gave us my favorite background. That's because I'm okay. It's true. A lot of good characters and characterizations spring out of that story.
Even to the point where the video games and even that third Nolan movie were taken reference from it and trying to be like, oh, should we do something like that? Dark Knight Rises is the one thing about, and I enjoyed Dark Knight Rises, it has lots of problems. I enjoyed half of that movie. Yeah, yeah.
But the reason I think why we only enjoy half of it is because it is a Nightfall movie slammed into a No Man's Land movie. And if they just made one of them, it would have been a really good movie. That's true. Yeah.
If they had gone Nightfall, No Man's Land or No Man's Land, it could have been really cool. It was still pretty cool. All the occupation stuff I think I really enjoyed. It's like all the fun stuff of that movie.
All the things that you would think would be from the comics ironically enough would be the things. It's funny. I love that story. It is meandering a couple moments where you can skip this part.
Sure, of course. But the culmination, that's one where the ending is a huge gut punch. Also, that is one of the few times that I think, because my biggest nitpick with Batman comic books and Batman editors is everybody overuses The Joker. Yes.
Because I can remember when I was a kid, which is about the same time I assumed you gentlemen reading comic books as well. The Joker didn't show up all the time, remember? No, you didn't see him a lot. It was a big deal.
It was serious. Yeah. And when he showed up, it was a huge deal. And No Man's Land held Joker in Tell the Finale.
Yeah. The Joker doesn't show up. Tell the Finale. And it is an ongoing storyline that entire year across multiple titles where I can remember several backyards being like, where is the Joker?
Where is the Joker? We can't find the Joker. Right. And that's the mark of somebody who is so secure in their story.
They're like, I am not afraid to not use the Joker. And don't worry, I'm going to use the Joker. And I have an idea for him that's going to blow your goddamn mind. Don't blow your Joker wad too early.
You really can't. So yeah, No Man's Land is a great one. It is epic in scale. And of course it dovetails off of two other sprawling epic stories that I don't think work quite as well.
Contagion is like, you know, it's all right. It's shorter. If you have the time. Yeah.
But yeah. So before we go any further, I just want to address the Super Chat really quick. Chase Echler says, I've read RIP so many times I can't decide if I love it or hate it. Guys, lots.
RIP is definitely on this list. We'll definitely not do it. Maybe I'll just jump into it really quick. But yeah.
Yeah. Before I deal with me, just the rest of the questions. Red Sam and I saw I love you. Have you played BAM in Arkham Knight?
Their version of the Red Hood? Origin I think works also similar to BAM may be on Return of the Joker, both written by Paul Deany. That's really cool. I've played some of it.
I hate the car mission so much that I've never going to play that game. Don't we all? It's the one I haven't played. I played all the other ones.
I own Arkham Knight. I got it on a great PlayStation store deal. Have you yet to play it? Yes.
I beat it. I beat it. But you are right. Those BAM mobile missions are internally frustrating.
I can't. I can't even. Taylor Pecher. No Man's Land also has my favorite two-face story where his infatuation with Renee Montoya.
Oh, that was good. Yes, it does. And that was a point in Gotham Central, which is not really cool. Yes, it was.
Which is probably one of the best issues of that story and that run for Gotham Central. Tomorrow is that considered a Batman event because of having John A.K. Superboy and Damian fighting Evil Ten Drake Batman? No.
Yeah, it's more of a Super Sun event. And one more event in Super Man. And that will be like in it because Super Sun is its own thing that stands on its own. This is a Batman story.
And Abraham Park jumping in just writing some love to the best comp of duo on YouTube. And especially to Jawa and love how your guys works my pick up of the family because it's the first trade that got me back into comics of the family. Yeah. Thank you Abraham.
Yes, we will talk about the family. Let's talk about RIP first. Yeah, digging RIP so. I hate RIP.
Oh, yeah. I mean, here's the thing. No, you know what? I didn't hate RIP.
It's so grim, Morrison. Oh, yeah, it is. And I like a lot of the things about like a lot of things he did with it. Like I love the Batman of Zirina.
I love the Joker in that story. I run enough just by talking about how over he is. Yeah. And I thought it was I thought it was done at Dservis by having it take place around the same time as Final Crisis.
Yeah. Yeah. Because people are always going to be related and it just straight up is not. No.
And it's cool. And I don't know. I like it, I think. But it's just so ridiculous.
And I don't know if Dr. Hurt is enough of a is dynamic enough of a villain, but that's why he kept coming back. He does. Yeah.
Yeah. And they never really never 100% explained who the hell he was really. Like they've kind of laid it down on. Oh, he's Barb Batos.
Yeah. In the flesh or something. And that cool. If it was at least addressed in Dark Knight's Metal, which it is not.
They did. No. Did you think Grant Morrison and any consultation or discussion with Snyder in Dark Knight's Metal? He did.
Really? Because like he did. So there's one of the issues. I think it's a wild hunt.
Oh, yeah. He. Yeah. He.
Yeah. He. It's written by Grant Morrison. It's one of the weakest ones.
Yeah. Now, how much of that is written by Grant Morrison? I don't know how much of that is got. I don't know.
But it's interesting because I feel there are some places that Dark Knight's Metal directly contradicts Batman. Right. Mm hmm. I.
You know what? I bet you. From everything I've ever heard about Grant Morrison, though, is that Grant Morrison is like one of the best creators ever. He's like, he will never tell you to not do something.
If you've got a good story. Like, look, I don't care if your story completely contradicts my story. If you think it's a good story, just tell it. That's fair.
That's fair. That's a dude who will take every story that existed and somehow fold into the singular continuity. He's like, I'm not afraid of your story and how it might change what I did. It's all parts of my friends.
Yeah. It all existed. Yeah. I will say the zeronam moment and the bat might hallucination and all that stuff.
Like, super cool. Very creative. And very creative. And ultimately, it was satisfying.
That's one of those events that was also sprawling and epic and ridiculous. But it had a satisfying conclusion, which I can't say the same for everybody. Plus, let us not forget that that story allows us to re-allow the word weapons grade crystal math. Oh my god.
What? Yeah. So good. You know, R.P.
is one of those storylines. It's just like metals. It doesn't make much sense. But for some reason, I like the ride that we take.
And it's really the ride. Yeah. Well, to be honest with you, it's hard for me not to look at all of Grant Morrison's run as a giant event because it's all ties into each other. You're right.
Like from Batman and Sun, all the way to Batman and corporate, it's really tough for me not to be like it's all together. So that's why R.P. doesn't hit me as much. Even though I do think it's the weakest part of his run.
Really? Yeah, I do. I don't know. I think there's that moment when he saves my time.
Because of Final Crisis is basically why. That's fair. Yeah. When he escapes from the coffin, and it's like because he's Batman, I'm like, yeah.
I was like, there are so many moments that are in comics today that are trying to elicit that feeling, that heart pounding moment that I had when I was a kid reading Batman for the first time. That's one of those things that I think delivered. All right. A lot of that.