Elseworlds Exchange: Ghostbusters

Today's episode of the Elsewhere's Exchange is brought to you by the Sorcerer's of Carmine, the debut novel by Scottish author Luke Brady. Now look, I know we all love comics, but occasionally it's good to pick up a full prose novel every now and again, and this one's a doozy with a lot in it for comic book fans, especially if you like magic titles. It's got witches, pirates, and plenty of action. Think Harry Potter meets Pirates of the Caribbean.

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That's L-U-K-E-B-R-A-D-Y. It's available on paperback, Kindle, or if you prefer an audio book, it's on both Audible and iTunes. Even better, if you've got Kindle Unlimited, or if it's your first title when you sign up for Audible, you can get it for free. It's a great debut novel, and I think it's going to be the start of a really cool series.

So give it a look, The Sorcerer's of Carmine by Luke Brady, available at tinyorl.com. That's L-U-K-E-B-R-A-D-Y. Alright, let's get on with the show then. Waiting down upon the underworld to smash gangland, come to the Friends of the Unfortunate, enemy of Priddle.

In a serious, all powerful character, a problem to the police, but a crusade of a law. Hey everybody, welcome to the Elseful Exchange. This is a very special one. For a number of reasons, the first of which is, you'll notice it's not live, and that's because, in order to finagle schedules, we have to make it recording.

So, hopefully you enjoyed this episode. It's about Ghostbusters. It's a long time coming. I've been trying to do the show forever, and I was like, there's no way I can do the show without these two special guests that I have today.

Today we have Dapper Dan Shonning and Eric Burnham. These two incredible creators have been working on the IEW. The Ghostbusters series, since its inception. I think I'm correct in that assumption.

I know that there was that, what in the Sam Haim just happened book, but we're not going to talk about that. We're just going to talk about the ongoing slash many, many, many series that have encompassed the world of Ghostbusters and deepened it and expanded it beyond even I'm sure Dan Ackroyd's imagination. So, yeah, welcome to the show guys. Thanks for having us.

Yeah, thank you. Of course, it's a privilege to be on the show. I think we've been at least seven years, right, Eric? Yeah, no, we started in, yeah, it's been seven years, it's been pushing eight.

Yeah, pushing eight. It's not. I mean, I mean, I think it was ten, but I know you're right. It's eight, but we're getting there.

And I feel like there's no signs of it slowing down at all. I remember when they announced they were like ending the ongoing series. I was like, well, I guess that's it. And then like three more mini series happened out of that.

So, you know, it's just going to keep going. I hope so. It would help at the rent. Yeah, that's weird.

I think IDW had been doing the Ghostbusters comics before we started doing it. And I think that was for two years beforehand, wasn't it? Like the other side and stuff like that? Yeah, they did the two mini series and then the four one shots and then infestation and then us.

Yeah, infestation, that's right. And that was when you started on it, right, Eric? That was when I started. Yeah.

Yeah. So we're going to say about the 88 miles per hour studio's book, the better, I'm sure. I'm not actually too familiar with it. I like the art on it, but I haven't read it.

It's kind of cool. But if you've never heard of it, ladies and gentlemen, there was a little known studio that somehow finagled the property of the license for Ghostbusters did like a four, I think four, maybe was more issue mini series. And then like just disappeared, like the whole book just disappeared. You can't find the singles.

I think they promised there was going to be a trade that never happened. Crazy. And the designs were insane. But anyway, so yeah, Ghostbusters.

Yeah. Let's talk about your familiarity with the property and more importantly, like when you first discovered it and when you went from watching a movie to like, oh my God, this is my calling kind of, I mean, not to put you in a box where you're like, I'm all Ghostbusters. But it's like, I know that the two of you have a real, have a real like penchant for the property as do I, even if my show wasn't called Ghostbusters Weekly or anything like that. Can't always change it.

Well, we'll see how the show goes, you know, if it blows up, hell, I'll do Ghostbusters on Tuesdays. Yeah, that'd be great. I'd be down to that. Did you want to go first, Eric?

No, no, by all means. You want me to go? Okay. Well, my first experience, I saw the movie in the theater when it came out in 1984.

So I'm kind of giving away my age a bit. I was eight years old when I saw it. And we arrived late. My mom took me to go see it.

And we arrived just at the moment when the librarian turns into the monster version and it totally scared the crap out of me being eight years old. It was a bit questionable, but you know, I fell in love with the film after that. A lot of the jokes I didn't get until I was older because a lot of the material, especially Bill Murray's lines are more adult orientated. So, but it's great because you can watch it at different ages and get different things out of the film.

And after the movie, obviously the cartoon was a huge influence in kind of grounding that love for the property and the characters. And ever since then, it's just been kind of a labor of 11, very humble to be continuing the mythos with Eric and Luis and Tom at UW. So, yeah. I'll go next.

When I think I saw it on tape, because I was not old enough to see in the theaters. And you're a spring chicken. So, comparatively, I mean, just like, man, I know I must have seen the movie because I had a lot of movie related merchandise as a kid before the cartoon. Or maybe around the same kind of like, I remember the movie more than I remember the cartoon.

If I go back far enough. But so the cartoon was very formative though for me because of its connection to the action figures. For me, it was like, it was more about being a ghostbuster than it was watching the ghostbusters. For me, it was like, get the toys and then just completely let your imagination go insane.

And then ghostbusters too came out and I remember seeing that in the theater and being like, wow. And not knowing that it was derivative in the exact same first movie. I remember the kid being like, slime really? We're doing slime?

And I'm like, really? At that age? I'm criticizing the movie? I remember seeing Ninja Turtles 3, the Turtles in Time in the theater and being like, oh, they can make bad movies.

That was the movie that made me realize that you can spend millions of dollars and have hundreds of people work on it and it can be bad. I thought there was some kind of oversight where if they were halfway through making it, if it was really bad, they'd go, oh, we have to stop. We're not going to spend all this money on a bad thing. Oh, how naive I was.

Yeah, they pushed through with that Ninja Turtles one. They really did. That's like the definition of insanity. Let's keep going.

Let's make a show that's more like that and get the female turtle in there and everything. Anyway, that's another show. It was the cartoon, the toys, the sequels, and then rediscovering the first movie. And just kind of like, just the look really captivated me.

Like everything about how it looked and felt. Just the designs of everything and the ghosts and then of course the humor. The fact that it was like a well orchestrated comedy that has this incredible fantastic element to it, all that just enraptured me. And I'm like, I'm stuck.

I couldn't extricate myself in a franchise again. I've been hatching out of Ghostbuster's suit for the past three years. I'm like, okay, I've got the flight suit and then I work on the proton pack and I get the accelerator and I get the accelerator and I get the boots and I get the name tag. And it's been like cultivating for three years.

And so I'm like, once it's perfect, I'll never get another Halloween costume again. I have it. It'll be the definitive one that go to. It's the one that I've been trying to replicate.

I remember as a kid getting the plastic pack and having the flight suit that they issued for kids that had the logo from the second movie. And I'm like, yeah, this is it. And then of course I'll grow it. And then time it passed and the public's perception of Ghostbuster's was like, it's old and it's done.

So it's like, in my mind, you're never gonna get it again. I have to go back and make it myself. And it's only recently oddly enough that Spirit Halloween is making those crazy accurate kuchamaw that they're making the trap and the goggles and stuff. Which is kind of awesome.

But Eric, what was your first introduction to Ghostbuster's? Oh geez, I know it was on tape. I was over at a relative's house. Just as the tape was ending the first time, I said, oh, what's this?

And I said, oh, well, we'll throw that on. And then the kids will be quiet and watch the movie. So yeah, no, I just sucked in and enjoyed it. And of course later with the cartoon, I do remember being told in elementary school that I should not be so interested in this stuff.

It would never go anywhere. You know, you can't make money with this. And I also remember getting sent down to the principal for some of the phrases that popped back into my head when I was out on the playground. But that's the one.

But no, no, the humor is a response to terror always just kind of resonated with me. And that just kind of stuck. I just hit the right spot at the right time. And I was interested from then.

Nice. When you guys became the team, pretty much for me at least the definitive team for the comic book, the original Ghostbusters. When you were first approached, Eric, I know you were approached first, Daniel came later. When you were first approached, and then we'll move on to Dan.

Were you like, I hope I get to do this for eight years? Or are you like, oh, it's a job? I'll do this. I really like doing this job.

It's something that's easy for me to do. I mean, comparatively with all the other things that I could be writing to say nothing of actual work. But I mean, it's something that comes naturally to me to write in these voices and in this way. So I am on it until they tell me I can't do it anymore because they're not going to pay me.

So I mean, it's something that I enjoy doing. And you might as well enjoy your job. So I'm here until I can't be. And Dan, you, I mean, I don't know the answer to this, but please share with us.

Oh, yeah. Well, I first, I did the same hand one. Peter David wrote that. Yeah.

That one came. That was the very first one I did. And yeah, when Tom offered me to do the ongoing, I was a bit apprehensive at first because I was concerned that I wouldn't really meet expectations. So, but I decided just to kind of go in with it.

And I love Ghostbusters and I really enjoyed the infestation comic. I was hoping that people enjoy my art as much as Kyle's because he did such a great job on those two issues. And yeah, I know it was a bit daunting at first, overwhelming, just because it's something I love a lot too. And I'm grateful that I took it on and I surely was not expecting it to last this long.

It's kind of being contract and freelance. You kind of just take jobs and expect them to last a short period of time. So I think it's a real blessing to be able to continue doing this for as long as we have been a great run. Your experience with Ghostbusters, I'm very familiar with the showings work because of course we've worked together in the past on flights of Fancy of mine.

And I was a huge fan of work before you would ever had a Ghostbusters project when you were doing Ghostbusters. I guess it's called fan art. I don't want to necessarily downplay that fan art with fan cartoony or dirty words and comic books. But your depictions of the characters are not too far from what your original designs were when you were doing your own just like, labors of love about the characters.

Did I even say to you like, just do what you've been doing? Or are they like, you could probably tweak them a little bit. No, they just from the beginning they're just like, draw whichever way you like. So I was kind of continuing that design because it was something that people were already familiar with.

So I thought it was easier for them to jump into and it just felt more comfortable. And as the conics have kind of progressed through the years, kind of been pushing designs. And I think they've refined quite a lot. I usually compare it to like the first season of the Simpsons compared to what you'd see now.

It's kind of an evolution of design through the years. So I think they're getting along and it would be interesting to see me draw them in different styles. And it's been nice with the current thing I'm drawing now. It's giving me an opportunity to kind of dabble in a heavier inks and just a different design aesthetic.

So, but yeah, I think that answers it. Do you think that when you were first working on the book together, when you were like, okay, we're going to do Ghostbusters? Was it kind of like we're going to tell, did you expect it to get as expansive as it got? I mean, just looking at the cast list from Massisteria going on to something that you're working on now where it's like with the crossing over and deepening the 2016 Ghostbusters franchise as well.

Like, did you expect to go like, oh, it turns out like we could have like 20 different Ghostbusters teams based on the characters that we've either. Expounded upon or created ourselves. Did you see that coming? Did you have, was that part of like your master plan or were you just kind of like, not to evolve from doing Ghostbusters and wanting to see more stuff?

I just probably ever hear it. I didn't see it coming, but I mean, it's the fun of these characters is that the voices are pretty clear. Folks know when what they sound like, not just from the Ghostbusters movie, but I mean, you know, throw a stick at, you know, 80s comedy or Saturday Night Live. These characters, their voices, the actors, the voices are pretty clear in most people's heads, just from pop culture.

So the fun of all this other stuff is just seeing how they react to not just other things, but other people doing things in different ways. And, you know, it's an easy thing to get a few pages by having them react to somebody new. So I mean, it just kind of snowballed. But yeah, it wasn't a grand plan.

I mean, other than we figured we might as well, because we can in the comics move a little bit closer to the original notion from the treatment, not quite time travel and everything, but a little bit of multi-dimensions and a little bit of more franchises and a little bit of that, which, you know, there's no reason why it just has to be four guys in New York, working New York the end, especially, you know, I mean, because you can go anywhere if Dan has the time to draw, it can be done. Yeah, that's right. I wanted to add to it. It's been a very organic experience for me at least.

Like, it's just been the way that Eric's crafting these great stories. It's just kind of flowed and like, what you had mentioned, Eric, about how the characters play off of each other. I think that is an amazing thing that you can mix Kate McKinnon's character with Bill and Marie's character and they just work so well together. Yeah, it's really fascinating.

So there's tons of material left and we'll see where it goes, right? Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, some of it is just a matter of, you know, it makes sense to put the pieces here.

Fans were asking for the rookie from the video game. We want to see the rookie. We want a little bit of that. What happened to him?

Okay, fine. Well, let's do something with him. So we threw him in and said, okay, he's working out in Chicago. There it is.

Well, now he's working there by himself. What's going on there? Well, we found ways to put people out there that are working with him. And now there's another franchise of different characters working in a different way.

And we've got that. And then, you know, meets an FBI agent and she finds this stuff interesting happens to be in New York. And then it's drawn into a thing. And now there's more of that.

There's more people ghost busting. There's more people looking into stuff. I mean, it just it lattered up naturally. And, you know, I mean, the fan reaction has been pretty positive to all the new stuff.

In fact, that's one of our problems is we want to see more of this. But we only have 20 pages and there needs to be some plot. Right. Yeah.

It's checking boxes. It has to be like part of the story. And that was also the hard time we had with that we had working on the Ninja Turtles crossover. It would have been fun just to have 100 pages of them talking with each other, but there has to be action.

So, you know, I mean, that's the thing that always comes up. The characterization is fun and people like it, but it eats up space and there's got to be a story too. And, you know, so I mean, you know, the balance of that has been the trickiest thing because everybody wants more of both. I think that's where the Ghostbusters Ninja Turtles crossover too came from.

It's just having an overwhelming amount of ideas and things you want to see. That was part of it. And then the rest of it was just, I mean, it took us two years. It was sales.

It took us two years to get them to agree to the first one. It was something that Tom Walts and I were talking about two o'clock in the morning, my first comic con. We were chatting and saying, you know, this would be a lot of fun to do. Both of the books were, you know, in single digits at that point.

We were, no, not single. We just finished our first year. So, I mean, Haunted America was coming out with Ghostbusters and, you know, he was still in the first meta arc for Turtles. We just said, it'd be funny to cross it over.

It took two years to get everybody to agree to do it by which point we had to figure out a way to make it the continuity because we insisted that that would be the most fun thing to do. Also the most complicated. But, no, it was all, they didn't believe it could be done. They didn't believe it would be interesting.

People would buy it that it would work, that the franchises would mesh. They all did. And then they're like, okay. And, and Nickelodeon and IDW were like, maybe we need a sequel.

They were right. At which point, you know, we, we got a sequel. We really want to do one more. I don't know if it'll, it'll happen anytime soon, but we'd like to do one more just to get the Ghostbusters over into the Turtles world.

I don't know if it'll ever happen, but if it does, that would be, you know, that would be the plan we shoot for. If it does, we'll have to do another episode where we just talk about what would have happened. Yeah. Yeah, what if.

Oh, man. We just have to keep praying to Evo Shandor or go to the end. Evo and Evo, Vigo and Bobby. That's what it is.

Yeah. So, then he goes. I had a question regarding likenesses and the whole, like, the look of the series and your visual interpretations and influences. Because from the real Ghostbusters, we know, you know, basically from folk tales that Bill Murray, a real problem with the voice from Lorenzo Music, and they switched it over to Dave Kuye.

And they were, Egon looks nothing like Egon, you know, like nobody looks like each other. And it was because of likeness rights. Or at least that was the rumor. Is that an issue in the comic too much?

Because I've noticed that they are certainly more accurately portraying the characters or the actors that they portray, particularly when you see somebody like when Louis Telly finally shows up in a series or, you know, and other characters that are clearly based off of the actors that play them in their original incarnations. But like, is that ever a concern? Do you get pushback about that? Or is it like, oh, no, it's a comic.

They say it's cool. Yeah. There's pushback. Okay.

Yeah. So, like, it depends on what it was. Like, for example, with the main four guys never had an issue with that. As far as I can remember, you can correct me if I'm wrong, Eric, but I kind of aim more for caricaturing their personalities more than the look since we're not allowed to do that.

But, you know, there's a bit of a challenge getting the answer to the call female Ghostbusters look down. That took maybe about 10 different takes to get that down to where it is now. It was at least. And I want to throw something in here real quick.

And this is something that I've noticed over the years Dan started off, and he's very good at character. And he's very good at drawing the characters that look like the characters as opposed to the actors. But he's also so dang good at likenesses. And sometimes it just gets away from him.

His style has changed over the years where he has gone from less cartoony in just the art that he does for fun, less cartoony to a little bit more realistic. And now he still draws the characters that he designed seven years ago. They're still on model. But if he's designing something new, he kind of leans into the way he draws now, which, you know, that makes sense.

That's how people, they grow. They learn. They, you know, they go with that. And that's the only time where it's ever been.

Oh, no, this looks too much like that person. Put a mustache on him. Change the camera for the love. That's the only notes that I've heard of that I've been made.

Oh, man, Dan did it again. He got the blows. And that's why you might be a mustache. But it's just a matter of Dan being too good for his own good.

It's kind of way for me, though. You just started drawing in a discreetie. Yeah. I was already in trouble.

Oh, go ahead. No, he's not the pushback. But more have you gotten any endorsements? Anybody who's like, dude, keep doing what you're doing.

You nailed me. I look great. Have you? Well, I don't want to say specifically who I caricatured, but, you know, like there's been a few people that have been quite happy about saying homage to them in the comic.

And especially, I think I can touch on the fans. And in the past, we have added fans into the comic. Just as a thank you. And, you know, that was done as without them even asking for it.

It was just more of saying, oh, you know, me personally, I've noticed you've done all this amazing charity work or been really helping the community out. And it's just a little thank you from me or from Eric or Luis who has ever requested it. But, yeah, no, I can't say exactly who, but they have enjoyed it. Yes.

With respect to the progression of the series, are you just kind of like enjoying the ride or do you have in your mind an end game? No, no end game. I mean, you know, it's it will go until it stops. I mean, they're never going to stop with the franchise in general.

I mean, the IDW comics will stop at some point in time. And, you know, I mean, who knows if someone will or will not pick up the license again in the near future at that point. But, you know, and if they do likely they'll they'll just start over from scratch and say, okay, well, we're going from the movies on or from wherever Ghostbusters say, you know, happened and you draw from that. That might include our stuff.

It might not. But no, there's no end game because the end game would be would be okay. They've these characters are retired and there's there's there's no more ghosts. So these other characters aren't necessary.

And, you know, you close doors on the whole on the whole franchise, the whole the whole playground. And I mean, that's just not going to happen. So I haven't even thought it. Do you ever po the likenesses and everything?

Just one more question about that. But this is kind of oddly put like I've noticed when you put some go like when it comes to the ghost designs and the ghost appear in the book, there are a lot of cameos from ghosts that may have appeared in action figure form. Any kind of issues or is that like fair game? We've never had I've never I don't know about you, but no one's ever mentioned to me not to draw them like that.

And it's I'm pretty sure so many owns all the rights. Yeah, they do if they own all the rights to that stuff, I believe. And if if they had any issue with it, you know, they they tell Tom and Tom would tell Dan and he'd have to change it. Right.

Yeah, but it's never been. You can't put fearsome flush in there or like you can't know the live pop eyeball popping ghost in there. I've seen it. Yeah, but like, oh, yeah, it's it's great to see.

By the way, if you are not familiar with this with the series or if you're not picking it up. Just not withstanding the great story and the ongoing expanse of continuity that's been going on for eight years. Just cherry picking Easter eggs in a series is a hoot in and of itself because Dan definitely works in all kinds of different wings nods and all kinds of different like Easter eggs and jokes and stuff like that. Like you can find I've seen many different characters in that series that either you know you wouldn't expect to see appear in that series or a ghost that I had as a plastic figure when I was a kid.

It's just incredible. Yeah, it's fun to add in that the ghosts that were in the toilet. I can imagine like what is the what is the when it comes to the nature of your collaboration. Eric when you're writing do you say like a scary ghost jumps out of the wall or do you have like intimate description about what kind I mean like sometimes the job obviously is like a lady died in the house and that's been a lady ghost but sometimes it'll just be like a spectrum of like thing that's just flying around the city.

Do you say like Dan knock yourself out pick another one of your action figures. Sometimes I put in you know no description at all sometimes I put in a ton of description and no matter which way I go dances I feel like drawing this toy. And then it's going to be on the page. Yeah.

Yeah. I can't fault him for it. If I want something super hyper specific I'm going to have to you know draw myself and give him reference and then big otherwise it's going to be the toy. But you know I mean and the fans love it so you know I mean you can't you know fair play this.

That's what it is. So I mean it all works out. Yeah. I have to say that I think some of my favorite ghosts that we've that I've drawn in the comic have has been created by her.

So like Ellen Gold and Annie. Oh yeah. I managed to buy Ellen Gold in the in the new video game. I'm the Ghostbusters world the new game.

Yeah. Yeah. Did you get a little bit more the story mode which is what I wrote. Yeah.

So I hopped in and worked on the story mode and you know I did a little bit other you know writing is as needed in there. So you know me Tobin spirit guy stuff. But yeah no so I mean if you read the dialogue I get all the dialogue. That's awesome.

I noticed a couple of things where I must have written too much because I'm like oh that seems edited. But yeah that's what I did on this and and it was a lot of fun to do was my first experience working at all in games. So it was I learned that that video game scripting is done in in spreadsheets in Excel. Wow.

Which I almost never use at all. So there are notes over on the right side that need to be there for the development team. And then you know there's the dialogue in one field and I accidentally knocked things off so everything was skewed. And I was trying to figure out how to fix it.

And I was freaking out and I was like sitting out emails on a holiday weekend before realizing was a holiday weekend. Oh God. Oh no. Terrible.

Nothing makes sense. It's all here it is. And that was kind of how it rolled over the course of a couple hours late on a Saturday holiday weekend or Friday. But I mean it was it was funny.

The only the only small regret I have Tim Lattie who's done a bunch of stuff for us in the comics did the illustrations in there. The only regret I had was Dan was too busy doing it himself. Way too busy. I mean he was doing comics at the time and that's where we want him for sure.

But that was the only the only small thing because it would have been fun to see Dan's art float around in this game as well. But it was it was fun to write. It was fun to work on. It was a neat new experience.

And they used so many of the characters that we created. I think there's like nine or ten in there which is really nice. Yeah. So Ellen Gold is in there.

It's all this is in there. Oh, thanks. Our first villain from the first arc and. Is that an acronym or something for Louisiana?

It is an acronym. It's like an amalgamation of our names. An acronym of Dan and Luis because I couldn't think of a name. So I just took their names and jumbled them up.

And I also threw through the through the another that I also use their names again when naming two of the ghost smashers. So Danny and Lou. Yes. I can't think of a name.

I just look around and see whatever grabs my eye. And in that case the last thing I'd seen both cases was an email from those two. Yeah. I don't I don't put you know when it comes to naming characters sometimes don't put too much thought into it.

Sometimes I put too much thought into it. Don't get me wrong. Evens out. Yeah, it all balances out.

And you believe in working on like going from the comics first of all making an adaptation of like this incredible franchise and then getting to be like, hey, you want to do the video game to like, oh my God, yeah. I mean, and that's awesome. Well, I mean, it's weird things. I'm sure, you know, weird, you know, out of the blue offers have come to Dan as well, but it's just like I got an email.

Hey, you want to write to open spirit guide? Yes, I do. You know, or the video game or, you know, other things like that. We Dan and I contributed less than Dan, but Dan worked on the cryptozoic board game couple of those.

He did the art work design the little word pieces. You know, I, you know, do the whopping thing. I brought like a two thousand words short story to go in the instruction manual. You know, but I mean, still it was fun to have, you know, just a little bit of involvement and, you know, be, be invited.

And, you know, so it's, it's cool to be seen as connected to the franchise to have other people reach out of the blue. And, you know, I mean, there are folks, the one thing that we haven't done yet that people have that fans have asked for is for action figures based on Dan's designs. And I know I'd love to see it. Oh, I know Dan.

You know what? Screw it. Even if it's not action figures, it's a little PVC figure. You know, it's in a pose.

I'll take that. Yeah. Yeah, that would be kind of C. You're sure?

And I know we're still waiting on those diamond distribution, um, the real Ghostbusters action figures that are coming out sometime. Oh, yeah. One day. Yeah, I got looked at those at San Diego this last year.

I did a double take because I didn't know they were coming out. Right? Yeah. I mean, I think that's if it's not inevitable, it should be the Dan version of the universe because like you've done it all.

Let's get into this, especially because of like, it's not for nothing, but like, this is kind of the visual look. This is the look of Ghostbusters for almost a decade now. Like, I mean, a little bit longer and Dan will have had the, as far as overall content, the largest amount of Ghostbusters material will have been Dan's designs. It'll, it'll, it'll eclipse the, it'll eclipse the designs of the cartoons you're within a couple of years, just, you know, for, for content and, and length of time in the public consciousness.

And so yeah, so I mean, there you go. Right. That would explain all the bags under my eyes. That would do it.

Also, there's grips where I throw in 30 characters, you know, Dan just, it's a splash page. You're 40 characters, you know, the crossing over was a good challenge because there was over 50 Ghostbusters, right? So there was, um, I was tired by the end of it. I'm still recovering, but it was a great experience that it makes all those characters together.

It was fun to mix them. I, I, uh, there were, there were some small regrets just because there were some wires crossed. I would have written it differently if I'd known that it was going to be collected in one book instead of two. Oh.

And, you know, I mean, so I mean, I, I wrote it so that there would be a natural break in between two trade paperbacks. Yeah. And, uh, you know, it's, it works fine, but I would have rather had more crazy mixing sooner. Mm.

But, uh, you know, I mean, that's, that's all hindsight, but at the same time, uh, gosh, I, there was so much that had to get in there and we still didn't get everything that we could have. And there was still, uh, there was still, you know, on our, on the Facebook group that were like, we needed to see more of this. There wasn't real. Right.

Are you going to do this? We did that joke and get real. We're not bringing it back. That takes up more panels that we could do something else with.

And, uh, you know, but the only, I love the fan base. The only thing that has ever really galled me from the positive fans. Now, I mean, you know, negative fans are another matter. The only thing that's ever galled me is we've talked about Dan sneaking some into the background.

Some people are very insistent that they need to be in there. Uh, and that gets, you know, I'm just saying it now because, because Dan is just being so darn nice to. So Canadian. So Canadian.

Okay. I'm starting to Minnesota. I'm starting to Minnesota. Nice out there.

Don't, don't do that. It's not cool. The trick about the canyos is that if you want one, you just don't ask and it'll be here. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. It was, you know, there was, I got, I got a year or so ago, I got hammered myself with it. Could you ask Dan? Could you ask Dan?

Could you ask Dan? And by the way, could you write me in? Uh, no. No, no, no.

I mean, it'd be great. But then, you know, it's like, it's like the candy in the classroom analogy. Do you have enough for the whole class and the whole class is a pretty large chunk of fandom. So we don't have enough for the whole class.

So, yeah. Um, has there been an ECHO you haven't done yet that you want to make? Oh, like an original ECHO? Yeah.

See, we, we, like, where's the boat? You know, I knew you've done boat. So it's like, yeah, we've done the boat. We've had a story.

Yeah, I've pitched, uh, I pitched a Tom and we talked about and we liked it. Hasn't been approved yet. I don't know whether or not it will be. Um, because I mean, that's, that's beyond my pay grade.

That's IDW. That's, uh, so you know, they have to decide whether they want to do it, whether it comes close to something else that they're doing. So I've got a cartoon coming up two years down the line and they know and I don't. Yeah.

And so, you know, you can't, but I had a part of that pitch was it was a submarine. Ooh. So, you know, like a submarine and you know, I mean, I'm just, I'm telling Dan now and I'm just, I can just see him clenching his fist because that means the ocean and that means backgrounds are nonexistent. Love it.

Love it. I know Luis would love that too. Luis would use some greens and some blacks and a little bit of blue go. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, that would be awesome though. It would be. That was something that, that, uh, it came up as part of the pitch and I mean, obviously it's, so that means there's ocean ghosts.

Right. Ooh. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's well, you know, not pirates, but I mean, it's crazy stuff. And I hope, I hope to do it.

It'd be fun to do someday again, because it involves so much. Ocean that, you know, it'd be like, it'd be like a little mini vacation for Dan and Luis. But, yeah. What number would it be, Eric?

The act of per sub. Like it would be like. I would have to be, it wouldn't have to be the nine. Act of nine.

Well, I think that's what the RV is. No, I think we just called that the act of RV. Oh, okay. Put a number on that.

I'm trying to remember all the actors. Yeah. myself because I mean there's the there's the echoes from the movies there's the echoes from the cartoon we don't necessarily follow the same number yeah other than you know I know the act away is the boat but you know I'm thinking of the RV now I saw pictures of this they made the RV they as part of a walkthrough to a ride in Germany you walk through the RV oh yeah that's right I saw a video that is so cool it's just every time I see something based even you know lightly on something we've done I I freak out a little bit you know so I mean yeah the the the actor RV is sitting over there in Germany didn't let us go see send us over we'll take a look at us make sure it's authentic yeah we just want to walk through the ride we'll head right back yeah right back from Germany from Germany yes it's a day trip yeah I tell you I think like this guy's limit when it comes to this franchise particularly your your two interpretation of it I could never have imagined that Ghostbusters have gotten so expansive and so far reaching despite the fact that it's like a franchise that's grounded in the concept of reaching to the netherworld and be on possibility but the cast of characters the assortment of spook specters and ghosts just the deepening of the characters that have been portrayed it's been kind of an amazing ride and I'm excited to hear that like at least from the creative standpoint there's no there's no breaks on this train and we're just gonna keep going but yeah it's it's certainly gone in a fun crazy direction from when you know when we all got into the franchise at the beginning when we were like oh Ghostbusters I love this and then it was like everyone went crazy for Ghostbusters and then it went extreme and then it went away and for that big long stretch of time where it's like there's nothing really I think it's done I think it's over and then sure enough and I got to tell you like the biggest leaps in Ghostbusters you know pop cultureness has come after your influence so that's that's pretty damn thank you I love it if we had if we had a direct influence but you know I'm I'm hesitant to take the credit because then I find out it was like no no it's all coincidence though we didn't know the comics I mean like just based on the board games alone like the fact they were like no you guys but yeah that's pretty awesome okay I'm gonna ask one more question because I know we got a wrap up but is there any franchise because you've done you've got Ninja Turtles there's of course in in the station you have to do a bunch of crossovers are there crossovers that you have not in development right now that you'd love to do someday with these characters yeah not in development okay there's a couple that I've been pushing for that I've been because I don't want to run with the movie that I've been talking to Tom about I'm putting those out of my mind right but Tom and I joked about one at one point and it became something like oh dang there is a story here it would be fantastic to do and it will never happen because it's a fantastic for we would never it would never work because the Marvel doesn't want to do as crossovers as much as you know some of the other publishers and stuff so I mean maybe it could be talked around one day because you know I mean the IDW is doing you know Marvel books now and stuff but I mean but it's it's still you know they're still sometimes it's just you know they've they made a decision on something and it takes years to change but the Ghostbusters and the fantastic for us thinking wow that'd be a lot of fun what yeah what if Larry is on the site of what was you know in ancient Rivera okay the so we've got Vigo and Doom and you know we've got all this going and reading he got hate each other and you know I mean it's just like there's all this there's all this stuff that is just you know perfectly syncs up with characters Wow and it would be a blast that would be a fun one to do and you know we there was there was a couple others that we almost we almost got to do that just you know missed by a hair so you know hopefully we'll circle back around but yeah them and gosh there's there's father's but I'm gonna dance for his answer out yeah I'm trying the one I think would be the coolest for me to draw right now would be the Ghostbusters meet Beetlejuice I think that would be a lot of fun because he that's the one I was trying to get Tom to push for so that's the one I didn't know about that sorry if I know it's got history because of the universal horror nights and stuff and it would just be it'd be something people wait a minute now what you have right would be a fantastic thing if we could get you know all the permissions and everybody decided to say yes I've been you know putting bugs and ears for a couple of months now and it may not happen and you know not for lack of us trying but you know we'd love to do it yeah we're those buttons beetles by chance yes they were okay good we gotta keep it the continuity going exactly that's right well gentlemen I want to thank you so much for being on the show this is really fun it was great insight into the process into your interpretations and your whole like love of not only working on this book but also the franchise in general we really get a chance to talk about like Ghostbusters is a phenomenon but like I'm glad we didn't because we got a chance instead of talk about like your creative processes and stuff that was this has been really invaluable and it's something that people don't really get the chance to hear about so it's like it's really fun to just chat about like your your attention to the prospect or to the projects it's just like let's do this let's talk about like how it will come together yeah I'm so I'm gonna say so if you can take me down just a really quick like you have a like you have an idea what's the how how does it go from from your concept Eric to your pencil Dan like do you like how many hoops you have to jump through in order to get something in sort of an issue out well I come up with the idea sometimes you know we we need an idea faster than maybe I'm I'm ready for just you know in the case of life or other projects you know we need an idea now you don't have to write it for six months but we need the idea now because of you know the way orders work so I send you orders I send you send the idea out I then try to write something resembling the solicit information into a script okay and you know and then Dan takes it and he about 50% of the time it looks exactly like I expected it to in my head and 50% of the time is the exact opposite which is weird you know like I envision in my minds I like they're walking left and Dan draws walking right but um but no no he draws and he throws in his own things his own ideas his own jokes or you know just just the way that he constructs the page and I take that and I change dialogue or in some cases it like in crossing over he insisted on adding those little Ghostbusters sprites from the second I'm like they're right there you can't miss them I didn't write them in there right there nobody's gonna be out I have to figure out a place in the story because you can't just give me four little five five little you know sprites standing in front of everybody can't just give me that and that except you not to do anything so they were some of my favorite characters from that they exactly I made him into brownies because I didn't know what else to do it but no he'll throw in a flourish or an idea or he'll sometimes I mean he will actually suggest it before he draws can we do this or before I write can you add this for me I'd like to draw this and you know after after he's done his part with the layouts so I'll fix the script change the script if need be and if there's something maybe that it's rare I think it's only happened three times in the years we've been doing this where I ask him to make a change doesn't happen much but you know that that'll go and then he goes to then he goes to the final art I mean that's that's usually the process I don't know how it looks from his end yeah it's a long hours lots of long hours but it usually the the comic takes me about 30 days to do so that includes them nails and I do a fair bit of research when I get the script so I'll read through it and pick out locations and I like to get those as accurate as possible so I tend to use Google Maps quite a bit and it's just nice to know that like if someone is gonna take a comic book and one of the Ghostbusters books and go to that exact location that it'll look pretty similar yeah so I kind of I take pride in that and yeah it takes about 30 days to do the whole thing may on average about 12 hours a day and not too many breaks I tell you maybe like a couple days off a month so it's pretty intensive and as for Luise's usually hot on my heels with the colors and he's getting he's gotten quite fast at it and it doesn't take him too long to catch up to me which puts the heat on me trying to get it done in time I think we've only been missed a deadline once or something is that yeah every other time we've been late it's been some kind of active God you know like a shipping strike or you know a truck over turn to ice on the highway that kind of thing everything else has been once and you know there was one other thing that that got me is because I know the Dan is putting it all this time and sometimes I try you know that's why you know like you get a scene in the void you know in the mental plane there's no background but one time I specifically wrote I wrote like three paragraphs okay Dan all I want is I want water packing is he's pointing and he's just just nothing it's a colored background there's nothing there trust the colored background just packing's pointing he's saying that's all there is it's just a splash bait there's nothing else there's no background and I get the page back and he drew in perspective the ornate roof of the airport every single line on every single time there are lights I'm like I couldn't help myself how often did you get to run the airport in Ireland it was it was it was great I was like I tried that was the one I everyone so well to it he he refuses yeah but I mean you know I say that's good but it's it's beyond appreciated because there is I can't think of a whole lot of artists in comics these days who will put the level of effort the level of detail the level of attention the level of time in and beyond a book month in month out for almost a decade doing that every single time every single page I can't name too many hours doing that so I mean it's beyond appreciated by the fans by the rest of the creative team but publishers everybody appreciate it's it's amazing work and again rare yeah like it really stems from just a passion of the story is great to start off with and that is inspiring unto its own and having a passion for Ghostbusters and just art in general it you know and that desire to want to continue to get better every day at what you do yeah well can you can we share one more thing what's your favorite issue single issue from your run oh geez you know actually I know mine do you okay you can think about yours that mine I always go back to the haunted America issue when the Ghostbusters visit New Orleans and I think it's mainly because I've never been there and I really want to go I find that city just fascinating to look at it's very visually appealing and getting to research it and explore the culture of that city and the ghosts that still reside there is really cool and the villain was a lot of fun to the Marie Liddo and just to I studied up on the history of that ghost and where it exists in the city and the history of how she came to be it's just really fascinating so that one that always sticks with me it may not be the most artistically appealing in my eyes but overall I think for the story and just the richness that it's still my favorite so I like that one a lot yeah it's it's tough for me to pick because I mean I tend to view in terms of the scenes the panels that I liked so you know I'll say I'll say the next one we get to work on is going to be my favorite because that's the way that works but the scene that I had the most fun with because I didn't know if it was going to work I didn't know if they were going to to let it go and you know without any without any comments and if the fans would embrace it was when Peter extras best himself back in the second arc so he's possessed and he just used a psychology to talk away out of being possessed that was something that I had a lot of fun in the education I would yeah yeah I think for me it was something it was gotta be I don't remember if it's a single issue if it's more just like but go just get real blew my mind just not only the the whole execution but also the just the effort that went into to make the trade paperback look like a cassette tape that's where my mind went when it was a cover I was like oh it's got to look like those all the VHS covers from the 80s they only released like a few episodes on the VHS but yeah I was like that I'm like looking at it has the like the joke on the FHA company I'm like this is intricate like and a perfect distillation of like what you can expect from this from this trade just a great looking and great reading series so if you aren't already on board go out find every issue you can of the Ghostbuster series my DW what's the subtext what's the subtitle for this for this current what's going on current one's crossing over crossing the final issue of that mini series should be out in a few weeks here number eight yeah thank you so much joining me and I hope we can do this again sometime it was awesome having you and good luck and keep up the great work and we'll see you guys next week another episode I was exchange him Sal and this was Dan Shouning and Eric Vernon thank you so much thanks for having us